Another week, another derby. West Brom’s not as nasty a rivalry as that with small heath, but it’s a no-love-lost match-up nonetheless. And Villa come into tonight’s game at The Hawthorns after a very interesting, entertaining, and revealing week. A week that’s left us a bit hopeful.

It’s starting to seem a long time ago that Steve Bruce was in the dugout. But Dean Smith has only been in charge since Swansea, and he took the helm during a break followed by the quick succession of matches that always follows. Smith got the win against Swansea in his first outing, followed by one-goal losses to Norwich and QPR.

Then there were 2-0 and 3-0 wins against Bolton and Derby, respectively, followed by another break. This time, Villa returned to handle blues 4-2, had a surreal but extremely entertaining 5-5 draw with Forest (about which Smith was likely none too happy), and then a comprehensive 3-0 win at Boro. Tired? No. Jaded? No. On the contrary, Smith wondered whether the players away on international duty were getting enough minutes to keep their fitness up.

In that span, Villa have beaten two of the seven teams now above us, and drawn with another. Tonight, West Brom sit third coming in, Villa eighth, and the gap is only four points. Albion have scored a couple more than us, and conceded a couple less. We’re unbeaten in five, and the Baggies have won three, drawn one and lost one. The wins against Derby and Boro were considered statements, and rightfully so, especially since both were decisive and away against good sides.

What to expect against another team vying for promotion? Well, as the league’s two highest-scoring teams, we might expect fireworks. However, Deano will only be interested in one-sided fireworks. He’s had a week to prepare, and we know he likes his preparation and makes good use of it.

Albion present a bit of a challenge in terms of that preparation, though, due to Darren Moore’s tactical flexibility. They’ve played three and four at the back, with a variety of midfield permutations. Smith has varied his looks, but not quite as much. But lately, both sides have trotted out what is essentially a 4-2-3-1. Will they do that again? Villa, I’m thinking yes. The only other option I think Smith would try is a 4-1-4-1, though we could see a 4-3-3. However, Smith’s 4-2-3-1 works about the same as a 4-3-3. Albion? No idea. I could see them going with three to get at Villa’s defense and give our outside players more work to do, but also sticking with four due to our strength down both the flanks and the middle.

What we can probably count on are reactions from both managers during the match. If something’s not working, look for tweaks. Neutrals will be looking at the showcase for Dwight Gayle and Tammy Abraham.

For Villa, the game will come too soon for Albert Adomah. Smith talked during the week about giving Jonathan Kodjia a needed break against Boro. After a week, will we see him reclaim his place, or will Anwar El Ghazi get the nod again? The team sheet might’ve just pipped me to the post, but my gut is telling me El Ghazi.

Regardless, it should be good match, one I’m looking forward to yet again, and Villa will be feeling pretty good about themselves. The trick here is to stay disciplined and not get too carried away. There are obviously plenty of goals in both sides, and some defensive frailties. It sounds obvious, but it seems to me that the outcome will be down to who’s more clinical up top and then more organized without the ball. That and the old chestnut I always trot out: Who wants it more? Simples.

A draw would certainly be acceptable, but I have a feeling Villa want all three points and will play for them. Another away win against a top promotion contender, and Villa might well be on their way. A loss? Well, it will be all about how we respond.

Over to you.

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John Clark
John is co-owner of AVL, and has followed the Villa since the '70s. A journalist by trade, he is, by most accounts, a very nice person. You can follow me on Twitter @JClarkKohoutek. It's an astonishing experience. Or a complete waste of time.

Comments 279

  1. Mark King

    Thanks JC- just bumped into a WBA mate of mine and he’s bricking it, he has us to win the league and got 25-1 at the time before Smith obviously, and has 100-1 on Chester to score tonight.

  2. Trinity

    Thanks again, JC.
    I’m looking forward to the Albion match. Win-or-lose, it should be another entertainer. For far too long, Villa hardly seemed to play anywhere near its potential, so I didn’t look forward as much as I should have to the games. That is turning around.
    2-4 Villa

  3. IanG

    Villa: Nyland, Hutton, Chester, Tuanzebe, Taylor, Hourihane, McGinn, Grealish, Bolasie, Abraham, El Ghazi.
    Subs: Bunn, Revan, Whelan, O’Hare, Elmohamady, Kodjia, Hogan.

    Looks good

  5. John Clark

    Hey there, Iana.

    Likewise. I’m duty bound to see them all, and I have to admit, it often felt like a chore, and then a kick in the groin for my troubles. And just as you say, it was largely down to the fact we just did not play up to potential, and now, win or lose, we’re starting to expect something worth watching.

  6. John Clark

    IanG…Like that Smith’s sticking with El Ghazi. Not afraid to make a change, but also respectful and giving players runs. Careful to point out that Whelan’s a great influence in the clubhouse and training, even though he’s not starting him. Likewise, Jedi making himself available last week even though still carrying a knock. Wouldn’t have played him anyway, but making the right noises.

  7. Mark King

    JC- He said nobody goes to Middlesbrough and wins 3-0, also said WBA were looking at smith , he’s not impressed with Moore, the two big wins sound like us last season, more one off than planned, They have quality though, I think it will be tougher than the Boro game.

  13. rogermuffin

    top notch write u again jc.

    wba dropped a clanger there playing barry no legs, or maybe the thinking is as he used to play for us, he ‘ll score. anyway , fuck the boggies. UTV!

  14. John Clark

    MK,

    Yeah, don’t think it’s going to be walk by any means. I like these top-of-the-table games now because a) we’ve won a couple and b) good measure of progress.

  49. Paul Pears

    Goal was not Hutton’s fault, cheap give away by Tammy, and El Ghazi not tracking back to assist Hutton, and also Chester took his eye off Gayle, so he was totally free to score.

    Maybe Elmo for El Gazhi, and Hogan for Tammy second half….

    McGinn back to form….

    Barry putting in great passes and getting in lots of sneaky fouls as usual.

  50. Trinity

    Definitely not converting all the chances but looking forward to second half. It’s a good challenge and if Villa come away with any points, they’ve done well. That said, Villa are more than capable of all three points.

  51. r0bb0

    Could be watching a premiership game here
    Some very good football from both sides.
    Exciting to watch and feeling both excited and tense!

  52. James Gill

    Pp
    Can’t blame el ghazi for goal,Hutton was beaten far too easy and Taylor nowhere to be seen,don’t want my wingers playing as full backs just need 2 full backs that can do what supposed to,Hutton is drifting inside to much

  53. John Lerwill

    Well, here’s a fact….

    Villa played their first ever game against the Baggies on December 9, 1882 (126 years ago).

    That anniversary occurs in 2 days time.

    It was a match in the Staffordshire Cup on Villa’s home ground at Wellington Road.

    The result? 3-3. Could this one end by that score?!

  54. r0bb0

    Tammy Abraham’s finding some very good positions and the Villa players are finding him well
    Just need a bit more luck in front of goal

    Oh and what a boot Mcginn has on him

  56. r0bb0

    Should have been a penalty but I think it would have been judged a soft one

    Hutton has lying very well again. . . especially as he’s having to do the job of two players at the back

    I guess it’s part of Dean Smith’s style to get those plywrs up front but I can’t hwlp feeling that even he would like to see El ghazi giving a bit more support at the back

  68. rogermuffin

    thought the cunts were going to score then right b4 ht!

    much to be upbeat about, we had the better chances, they only really had the one, chessy was ball watching.

    personally i would have kept the same team from the last game,

  79. rogermuffin

    r0bb0 December 7, 2018 at 9:24 pm
    Let’s look on the bright side
    Maybe Chelsea will be watching this game and decide they don’t want Abraham back after all!

    loooolllololoolo

  90. rogermuffin

    James Gill December 7, 2018 at 9:40 pm
    Hutton done well at lb,Elmo and el ghazi working well wonder was it a language problem in 1st half, Hutton shouting at el ghazi

    Well Said!

  106. r0bb0

    Well
    We were the better side
    We’ve now outplayed Derby, boro and West Brom
    Certainly capable of promotion this season but those two dropped points hurt

  110. James Gill

    Jc
    4 points dropped last few matches down to certain players sooner Smith can get his own in the better,to score 5 at home only get 1 point ,them go to baggies and score 2and still only get a point is maddening,but still a he’ll of an improvement on a few weeks ago

  111. r0bb0

    Isn’t it ridiculous that whilst he referee is consulting with his assistant, hundreds of thousands of people know without a shadow of a doubt that it was a handball and no goal.
    He evidence is there in full technicolour for everyone to see . . . and yet the goal stands.
    I don’t blame Rodriguez so much as the small brained dinosaurs in charge of the game that allow this to continue.

  114. Trinity

    Yep, should have prevailed but for profligacy. This should help motivate Villa for the next match. There should be no fear in this team. It will come down to every individual doing their job right, which was missing a bit tonight. That said, Villa look dangerous again. Maybe other teams will start fearing Villa again.

  118. IanG

    JC
    Yes I’ll be glad when albert comes back as codger is lazy sometimes on getting back to defend.
    Mind you so is EG, & as he comes from Lille, it must be a french thing.
    But he at least has the capacity to learn, which is more than you can say about codger.
    Maybe we should bring Mitch Clark back, as Taylor never lasts more than a few games before getting injured.
    Tammie had a day to forget, & if not for injuries we might have seen Hogan.
    The BBC Sports commentator was on about the moaning players when the baggies cheated their way to a draw.
    Having watched it in slo mo it was deliberate.

  120. John Clark

    Yeah, deliberate, and like you say, r0bb0, completely clear to everyone in the world except the officials. Actually a double handball…once when he’s coming through and ‘controlling’ and then on the ground. He lays there like he knows it’s going to be disallowed, even.

  121. John Clark

    And on Kodjia…Yes, he can be lazy, though he’s been better of late. What bothered me was giving the ball away cheaply trying to do too much on his own, probably because El Ghazi scored twice, Bolasie was always dangerous, and he can see his spot slipping away.

  122. John Clark

    IanG….

    El Ghazi will learn, yes, or I don’t think Smith will play him, tbh. Everyone has to work or the pressing doesn’t work. And, tbf, EG does his part up front…He can just be a bit nonchalant in tracking back.

  123. r0bb0

    We now have one of the worst, if not THE worst records of points lost from winning positions.
    Against Birmingham I remember commenting to my wife on how much our game management had improved. We were retaining the ball so well that the “Ole’s” were being shouted all around the ground.
    As JC pointed out though, Kodjia didn’t seem to have read the script last night and was running himself into dead ends and losing possession when the clock was running down.
    To some extent I guess it’s part of the new exciting way of playing and the upside is that we’re no longer sitting back when we go ahead.
    Maybe there’s a slightly better balance still to be struck though.

  124. rogermuffin

    Guys, honestly, Why did Chester turn his back on that? Nyland should also be Infront of jrod, amd then going for it. Chester and nyland both to blame. For both goals really.

    They should both of been in front, of j-rod. Chester was ballwatching for both goals, he shud have cut them both out. Nyland could of punched both balls away for both goals.

    We also missed some bloddy sitters.

    Arrggh!

    We should always remember the officials r u enemies and always will be. Every other games officials have done and we always fuck us, whether on purpose or not. UTV!

  125. Plug

    Ace write up again JC. I think everyone who has commented have nailed the issues. Rodriguez caught the ball, threw it towards goal and then diverted into the net with his arm. I won’t be too hard on the officials, they screwed up but in real time I’m not surprised. If Abraham had put just 1 of his great chances away, we’d have won at a canter. The Yam Yams were looking wrecked and I honestly thought if a late goal was coming it would be from Villa.

    Tuanzebe was immense. El Gassy was scintillating. McGinn ran his nuts off. In hindsight, in the heat of a local derby Codger was not the correct sub. Perhaps Hogan with his pace and effort would have been more suitable.

    The game itself was a credit to the Championship. Full of excitement. Full of attacking intent. Full of entertainment. More please. Can’t wait for our next game to come round.

  126. r0bb0

    Lovely little review there Plug
    Roger. . . I don’t see the ‘on pitch’ officials as being our enemy.
    They operate to rules that say if they haven’t ‘seen’ an offence, they can’t give one.
    The enemies are the Jurassic men who think that it makes sense for ‘everybody’ to know that it isn’t a goal ‘apart’ from the referee and his assistants.
    It’s just plain silly.

  127. IanG

    r0bb0
    The standard of the linesmen in the EFL has been atrocious on more or less any match.
    The referees have been extremely variable, more so than is acceptable.
    The linesmen seem to wait for the referee to give the decisions on whose throw in it is more often than not.
    Their positioning is often not good.
    So we might as well have VAR as often the linemen don’t function.
    If the linesman had been in the correct position he would have seen what happened & told the referee who was unsighted, as it would have been obvious.
    The referees penalty decisions are too often atrocious in this league, & we had yet another cast iron penalty with McGinn that the ref waved play on to.
    They’re not servants of the game but control freaks, who act like wanna be players.
    Also the keeper was fouled & ignored yet again.

    I don’t mind the football in the eFL, but the officiating is enough to put me off my distraction.

  129. John Lerwill

    The Match

    Plug sums up the match very neatly. It should have ended-up as a neatly packaged 4-2 win with the footballers earning their rewards for a calm display against some rough play … even Barry, from whom we should have gained a penalty.

    Albion are a useful side, but the potential Premiership side in that match was clearly the Villa in.m.o. Yep, I’m biased.

    But who would have thought that Abe would miss all 4 such chances he had? THat absolute sitter in front of goal was actually quite amusing to me because you could see he was getting excited about receiving just the right ball for an easy goal. Unfortunately the ball was ever so slightly behind him, but clearly controllable fotr him to tuck away.

    Well, next match he might score 6.

    Nevertheless, it was those missed chances and the non-gained penalty that caused us to drop 2 points. Their last-fling equaliser – flawed that it was – can’t be blamed for a non-win.

    Never mind. On paper it was a good result.

  131. John Lerwill

    r0bb0: “The enemies are the Jurassic men who think that it makes sense for ‘everybody’ to know that it isn’t a goal ‘apart’ from the referee and his assistants.”

    Perhaps this is equivalent to a ball-over-the-line situation and video evidence called for?

    In this case I don’t blame the officials too much. They were not situated in a good enough position to decide and therefore video evidence is key.

    Otherwise I believe in the old adage that you gain some, lose some. This constant analysis does tend to distract from the enjoyment of the game for me and we frankly should have been 2 or 3 goals ahead by then and not be worrying about what would have been a consolation freak to Albyun.

  132. r0bb0

    The last 5 games have felt impressive, especially as they have all been against teams above us in the table at the time. I just wondered how close they are to being good enough for promotion though.
    Over those 5 games we have averaged 2.2 points per game. We now have 25 games left so if we maintained that average we’d amass a further 55 points. Add that to the 32 that we already have and we’d end up on 87 points.

    Over the past 10 years, the average points tally for the second automatic promotion slot has been . . . . 86.

    We’ve shown we ‘can’ compete against the best but we must also make sure that we maintain those levels of performance against the teams below us as that’s where we ultimately fell short last year.

    Let’s just hope we don’t miss out to Albion by fewer than 4 points . . . the cost of the ineptitude of last night’s referee and his assistant’s . . . . along with the ignorant, old fashioned ideas of the law makers of the game.

  133. r0bb0

    JL, “perhaps video evidence . . . is called for”

    That’s exactly what should be happening.

    That’s how everybody at home KNEW that the officials were in the process of getting it wrong. While the referee was sauntering over to chat to his assistant, we were all at home watching Rodriguez knock the ball in with his hand.

    Isn’t it amazing that the world’s most popular game is behind the ‘old fashioned’ games of rugby, cricket and tennis, all of which successfully use video evidence.

  134. John Clark

    r0bb0…

    Amen. There is just too much going on for the officials to see it all. In open play, you hope it evens out and often does. But goals and even penalty shouts should be reviewed. Penalties are more difficult, because play often continues. But you could use it in situations were the ball goes out of play or into the keeper’s hand immediately after the instance.

    As you very correctly say, it’s just not right when everyone but the officials can see what happened and the travesty is allowed to stand when there’s a very simple way to get it right that does not detract from the game. Someone could’ve handed him a phone with the broadcast on and he’d have seen it, FFS.

    Officials simply shouldn’t be deciding games with missed or incorrect calls in critical situations. Used to be there was nothing you could do about it, so everyone accepted it. That’s no longer an acceptable excuse.

  135. John Clark

    JL,

    Don’t disagree that our, Abraham’s, profligacy in front of goal ultimately cost us. I had a terrible feeling as chance after chance was missed that it would come back to haunt us. Almost always does.

    But, at the same time, the referee’s decision did cost us a fully deserved 2-1 win. No getting around it.

    It was also great to see us chasing more goals after the second. I absolutely love the mentality.

  136. Mark King

    Calmed down now after feeling incredibly pissed off because we should of taken a third big scalp away from home on the trot and gone into the play off places. There is no doubt about it we were robbed, forget missed chances etc we went ahead twice, we made the best chances on the night hit the post and should of had a pen. How the ref missed the players reaction to scoring I’ll never know. I am pissed off though because those dropped points cost top two places and we have plenty of early season mishaps to make up for.

    Now we can pick apart the goals against us like the huge 60 yard pass from their box for the 1st or the fact Hourihane and wheelan stood off the player that makes the pass out to the right for the 2nd, or Kodjia didn’t track back or Nyland should of trampled Rodriguez under foot but there is one simple underlying factor to why we feel aggrieved, and that is our expectations have risen.

    We are now watching a team that once had no defence and could not buy a win take apart the best the league can offer away from home consistently. Its not perfect (what is) and we saw the worst of this team amplified under Steve Bruce where we missed some chances and conceded many more against poor opposition, we are now seeing potential maximised while frailty is minimised to the best Smith can do without recruitment. We knew this before he came, we knew the weak points, they remain the keeper and full backs and maybe a CB (although a dominant keeper would take the guessing out of the CB’s mind). On the plus side there is not a player that has not improved on some level and the team as a whole immeasurably.Could he do better? probably but I’m struggling to see how, he is already doing a balancing act.

    I find myself getting emotionally involved in games more now, less resigned as the frustration has gone and the excitement levels have shot up, I’m no longer pissed off at players just pissed off for them, they are genuinely doing their best and have the platform to do so.

    Thought we lacked runners from midfield in the box leaving Tammy as the sole target last night and the full backs looked more withdrawn for obvious reasons, WBA have scored more than anyone and have some good wingers but by Christ so do we. Would like to see Hogan involved and maybe even Kodjia central to give Tammy a rest and competition.

    All in all in less matches than it took one manager to be sacked another has revitalised the club to an astounding level against top opposition, its gone better than I could possibly hope, keep this up until Jan, make some changes and march on, destroying good teams at their place and room for improvement still? I’ll take that for now.

  138. Mark King

    JG- 🙂 I thought the linesman was where he was supposed to be almost at the corner flag and looking along the line, its what he does next which was running immediately back to the centre line without watching the reaction of the players and Rodriguez that stinks as much as his “should of gone to specsavers “moment. I’m with the get some video footage decisions going crowd, it works in other sports, if you want give each team two reviews a game.

  140. r0bb0

    Just seen Sheffield United go 1-0 up
    The goal scorer lost led offside when the ball was first struck
    Then he looked very offside when it was touched on from the head of his own player

  141. John Lerwill

    robbo/JC,

    What you’re both advocating is all very well but is a route that should be trod with acution i.m.o.

    Football is a fast game (obviously) and the last thing I would want is to have periods in the match which are start-stop.

    So although I’m not against video reviews, they need to be implemented very cautiously i.m.o.

    It obviously makes sense to use such a method in a rare situation like the ball-over-the-line scenario, but how far do you go? The whole matter could end up in silly street.

    As I said, “I believe in the old adage that you gain some, lose some.” After all, you could say we had luck that our first goal went in from that wicked deflection. And – no – I still disagree that it was the ref who cost us and should carry all the can. Abe’s point blank miss stopped us from going 3-1 up. That would have settled the matter long before injury time.

  142. John Lerwill

    MK,

    Again you go into a diatribe about Dean Smith’s achievement and changing the way Villa play in quick time and that it is working.

    I again reiterate that Smith’s approach has seen a huge difference, but do you know what? It makes very little difference to my hunger to see Villa play. I agree it mich had done 40 or more years ago when you’re of a young frame of mind (up to your 30s) but it shouldn’t continue to have that effect.

    I’m always interested in what Villa do regardless of who is in charge, and I followed matches under Bruce just as keenly.

    And that brings in another point. That every time you throw your accolades to Smith in such a way it does tend to infer that the previous manager was no good. Yes I know that very few on this blog had too much time for Bruce, but that fact is that he did more than anyone else since 2011 to make the Villa into a respected team again.

    The 2011-16 period was horrible. Now Smith is there his approach is making a lot better use of resources, and I’m pleased for him for that – and for the club. But so far Smith has had to use what Bruce left behind him. And what Smith has made of those players indicates that at least Bruce has a good eye for what makes a player.

    Simply because of what Bruce inherited when he came in is also a big reason to me why we should just let the past go and just accept that the club is moving forward at a better rate of knots – but based on Bruce’s groundwork.

    Further reference to Bruce by you will not be appreciated – by me at least. I don’t mention Bruce any more and I’m sure there’s no reason for you to do so either. It gains AVL nothing to keep harping back in such a way.

  143. r0bb0

    Sorry John, couldn’t disagree with you more on this one.
    1) As Jc pointed out earlier, a fan could have handed the referee his phone and proved it should be disallowed. So the status quote is just silly. There is no way we would move to it if it didn’t already exist
    2) video referees have already been used to correct many wrong initial decisions in rugby. . . another fast moving game
    3) it’s already been tested thoroughly at the highest level.

    In the game I’ve just arched, Reading we’re hanging on for a possible draw until an offside Sheffield goal was allowed.

    We are now 4 points further from the top 6 than we would be if video evidence was allowed. That could cost us (or some other team) premier league football and £100m. It’s just not tenable for the current farcical situation to continue when a solution is available.
    It’s not acceptable that other less well funded sports have already implemented solutions but football continues to live in the dark ages.
    Time and technology have moved on

  144. r0bb0

    I’m not suggesting that the use of VAR will guarantee correct decisions, but it’s been shown that TMO in rugby has dramatically reduced the number of wrong decisions

  145. Mark King

    JL- Its in the context of this season and my opinion, feel free to not like it. You may be happy watching anything Villa throw out myself I was getting worn down by it as lessons were rarely learnt. Never dimmed my support just my enjoyment.

    I am also trying to offer some balance to the thought Smith should be doing things differently by offering comparison with how it was previously done with the opposite effect. Honestly if it offends you don’t read it, I wont be offended.

    I think it very likely having seen Smith work here he would likely of made a better fist of RDMs squad let alone this one. He doesn’t seem overawed by big names, he’s got JT as an assistant for instance and has turned the dressing room around.

    The evidence to what and whom are Bruces signings is up for grabs, the group of players are of good quality but the squad imbalanced. In retrospect of Deans management and style Bruce missed a very big chance to show his ability with the resources he had. Yep Bruce could attract a decent level of player but so can Villa and with the way we are playing under Smith more will be tempted to come not less.

    I am over the moon with how we are progressing at the age of 55, why? because its the best I have seen us play since Big Ron was here.

  147. r0bb0

    JL, I do know where you’re coming from. There is still a little bit of wanting to refight old battles about Bruce.

    Having said that where everyone seems to be in agreement is that Smith is managing to get more out of a good bunch of players than Bruce managed.

    Another little example is that we seem to be quicker at taking throw ins. It used to be a real bugbear of mine that we were always so casual about throw ins. We seemed to wait till the opposition were marking every player so that we lost possession as often as not.

  148. John Lerwill

    r0bb0,

    I’m aware of the points you list.

    The issue for me is not this big need for winning and – for me this movement is going away from the notions of sport, which I and everyone else saw 50 years ago (even perhaps 20 years ago), as the *natural* competition between competitors without the need for the intervention of any device other than the abilities of the players and the *equal fortune that all competitors share*.

    If there is equal availability of fortune then all things work out eventually. That again is what was always believed.

    Why should we have systems in place that are not affordable at every level of the sport, not just the topmost, when natural law is most likely sufficient? The only true reason I see is the industry that develops out of it to make more business out of sport.

    I’m not going to change my view on that and will probably be regarded as an old duffer for having that view. So be it. But this drive towards technology in every aspect of our lives is going to have a cop out in time when we have forgotten that living happily without such resources could be achieved.

    I’m just waiting for the next big power blackout such as those that have already occurred a few years ago. And the time may come when the power might just not come back on again.

    We won’t know what to do.

  149. IanG

    JL
    How long are the stoppages in matches due to the protests of players when contentious decisions>
    You appear to be a little curmudgeonly about this

  151. IanG

    JL
    ‘And the time may come when the power might just not come back on again.
    We won’t know what to do.’

    We might end up with more wit on the terraces

  152. John Lerwill

    r0bb0/MK,

    I thought we had agreed to stop reverting back to issues about Bruce?

    I just not see its relevance. If Smith is doing well – and he is – then great. It doesn’t mean to say you then have to say that proves the old manager was no good.

    And there are people who – underneath it all – just wish to forget the state of the club in 2016 (less than 3 years ago), which Bruce at least helped to pull us out of and enable a Dean Smith to carry things forward.

  154. John Lerwill

    MK: “I am over the moon with how we are progressing at the age of 55, why? because its the best I have seen us play since Big Ron was here.”

    Without knocking Ron S, I preferred Big Ron.

  156. IanG

    JL
    Are you implying that all the occupants of the VP terraces were wasted?
    Mind you that may have been the case under some managers I shall not mention.

  157. James Gill

    I don’t know why anyone thinks it was Bruce managerial skills that got decent players to villa,it was big fat paycheck the doc offered,just look at nylan,Taylor last night Bruce’s signings,he got lucky with mcginn, Celtic thought because he mcginn was a fan he would take a lot less than villa where offering,they are sorry now

  158. r0bb0

    JL:
    “r0bb0/MK,

    I thought we had agreed to stop reverting back to issues about Bruce?“

    John, I was just responding to your posting . . . . I wouldn’t have mentioned him ordinarily.

    I’m on the same side of the argument as you on this one though. I think it’s a bit silly if anyone tried to suggest that Bruce is a bad manager but in fairness I’ve seen very little of that lately. I do see people saying that Smith seems to be a better coach, and right now I think you’d agree that it does very much look that way.

    Someone suggested that Bruce may make s good director of football and that seemed an interesting angle. Can’t see him wanting that though

  160. John Lerwill

    r0bb0: “I do see people saying that Smith seems to be a better coach, and right now I think you’d agree that it does very much look that way.”

    And where have I not said that? 😉

    My thing is purely that Bruce repeatedly comes into adverse discussion. For me it’s inappropriate when what we’re concerned about really is the here and now. As in everything.

  161. r0bb0

    JL
    “And where have I not said that”
    Errrrr. . . nowhere as far as I know.

    IanG “ as you brought it up, he wasn’t a good manager either”

    Good to see your sense of humour has returned 🙂

  162. John Lerwill

    r0bb0,

    Just *one* example (other comments on earlier articles): John Lerwill December 8, 2018 at 7:36 pm

    It’s clearly in support of what Smith is doing even if I don’t actually use the words you suggest.

    It’s quite clear that Smith is achieving what he’s doing because of a greater level of awareness of play. It would be a near idiot who couldn’t see that! 🙂

  165. John Lerwill

    Fair Play

    Thoughts of the injury-time handball goal made me think of fair-play incidents that Villa were involved with years ago.

    The first of these was in the wartime League Cup Final second leg held at VP in May, 1944.

    Villa won overall in this exciting encounter, by 5-4, but Villa’s win was part down to a deliberate handball goal by Villa’s George Edwards that was ‘allowed by the referee, who said afterwards that he felt there would be a goal anyway and therefore let it stand!

    Now, what do you say about that and how attitudes seem to have changed over the years!

    Another, but different situation, was in a match away at Arsenal in 1952 when, with 12 minutes to go and the score standing at 1-1, Villa’s Stan Lynn had the choice of kicking the head of the Arsenal player, who was diving to head in a cross. Lynn deliberately withdrew his boot to prevent the Arsenal player having a nasty head injury, but which action caused Villa to lose the match.

  166. Mark King

    JG- I agree when you look back the whole saga of our demise have been littered with incompetence of one sort or another.We now have a professionally run club with a coach rather than a manager.

    Looking back at Xias era it’s almost farcical now, the idea of Round sitting in his office inventing the Villa way and implementing it over 5 years looks what it was, a load of bull to pacify the crowd. What’s worse is we bought into it all while our eyes were telling us something else.

    Regardless of the club situation the manager always has the last say on the pitch and that’s where you start.

    At least we know these lot will hold the coach to producing higher standards or he won’t be there.

  167. r0bb0

    JL. I am genuinely confused. I suspect that one of us has misunderstood what the other was ‘trying’ to say at some point in this exchange.
    I’m just not sure what or when.

  168. Mark King

    JL- surely the answer is for the players to be honest? That would be true sportsmanship, unfortunately sports people want to win and winning a lot generates wealth of time in the professional game.

  169. r0bb0

    Mark . . . ahhh, if only.

    Bearing in mind that honesty is not even expected in the ‘gentleman’s sport’ of cricket any more I think it has zero chance of emerging in football.

    In the absence of honesty from players and competence from officials then technology seems to be the answer to me.
    It’s actually worse than a lack of honesty from players. These days they are actually coached to cheat which makes the task of officials even more difficult.

  171. Paul Pears

    We now live in Orwell’s 1984, where there are cameras virtually on every street, attached to people’s homes, in shops, factories, offices, cars , lorries, buses and in our phones watching virtually every minute of our lives, because we no longer trust, and do not have the human capability to watch everything that happens.

    Therefore, it is perfectly natural that we should have the same in sport, especially football, where even the majority of pundits seem to think it’s ok to cheat if it gets your team a result. I would love soccer to be the same as rugby where the referee has total control, informs everyone of his decisions, and players get ten minutes in the sin bin for a yellow card. The clock is much better in rugby, as there is no argument over time, and it only stops when necessary.

  172. Heroes-and-Villans

    One thing that’s irked me that smith has done. Dropped Elmo for Hutton after we was the best we have played at boro. …and Hutton makes the mistake!

    Think we are are better with him at rb and when he came on we played better.

  173. IanG

    Andrew
    Exactly what I posted before the match.
    I also think Hutton is better defensively at LB than RB, as he has to concentrate more, & it’s fine that he goes forwards a little less with the players we have up front.
    There seems to be more stability & balance also.

  174. Mark King

    Andrew/IanG I can understand why Smith prefers Hutton for his physicality and pace, Barnes is quick and strong, by the time elmo came on Barnes would be at least a little tired and Villa bossed the second half. The 1st was more even and WBA put us under pressure, no guarantee Elmo would of fared any better. The Goal Hutton was involved in he was bit unlucky having won the ball back then stumbling, Tuanzebe then stood off Barnes allowing him to cross. You will now get your wish lads as Taylor is out for 2-3 weeks.

  175. IanG

    Mark
    ‘You will now get your wish lads as Taylor is out for 2-3 weeks.’

    As usual these days unfortunately, since his first injury last season.
    We’ve had plenty of practice at looking the left back slot.

  176. DarrenO

    No mention of the throw in that never crossed the line in the build up to their equaliser by anyone, or may have missed it as I caught up with the comments.

    Great performance, the hoodoo of Tammy getting player of the month bit us on the night but he’ll bag so many goals for us this season, it will be scary what he ends up with, love to hold onto him if we got promoted.

    Grealish had an off day but it didn’t matter as we are no longer reliant on him, Barry was being a bit cynical or age maybe catching up with him after a fine career.

    Bring on Stoke, after years of pain and frustration, football to be savoured.

    UTV

  177. Clive Evans

    Just caught up with all the comments and here are my views
    I thought we had put the Bruce/Smith debate on the back-burner but Phoenix-like it is prevalent in this page again!
    Hutton might have let Barnes get away to produce the assist for their goal but I did comment on their attacking left flank before the game and Hutton was left ‘marking’ 2 men a lot of the time. DS must have seen this and felt the risk was justified with Anwar romping along on out right.
    Mark ‘(although a dominant keeper would take the guessing out of the CB’s mind)’ – too true I played in goal and can confirm dodgy game by keeper or CB throws doubt on the other parties.
    What is by now obvious, if it wasn’t already, we need a new keeper and extra defenders. The rest is making a good job of it for now and we have strength in depth.
    We need to put on a show for Stoke – please!

  179. Heroes-and-Villans

    im fuming we are still 4 points from playoff places after a good run against tough opposition.

    They top 6 seem to be pretty consistent. its going to be very tough. think we can make play offs but top 2 I think is too much.

  180. DarrenO

    Early doors, plenty of points to play for Andrew and plenty of twists and turns for us and equally for the teams above us but very confident of continuing our overall form and catching up and putting pressure on the top two.

  181. Mark King

    DOR- Didn’t catch the throw in moment but we do need to Taylor our enthusiasm and keep the ball when we are so close to victory. Loving the overall game play though and approach, its like xmas but better.

  182. Mark King

    Clive- Defo think a keeper is needed, amazing when we have 4 on the books and 2 in the youth. Mr Bruce had been watching Nyland for years too, we seemed cursed in recent years in that department.

    I only mentioned Bruce because there was a little bit of Bruce like caution creeping in with people wanting Albert over Elghazi who has taken the team by storm and practically nearly won the match, he is showing Jack what he needs to acquire to be truly a threat.

    Its a stark contrast in both play and results because Smith is maximising the players abilities which almost all lies in the attacking third. I’m sure he doesn’t want us to be like a barn door at the back but we haven’t got the players. Adomah might have to be a sub in my eyes, Bolasie and ElGhazi are on fire.

  184. Mark King

    IanG- I think Clark will be recalled, can’t of gone unnoticed by Smith. Although it looks like more youth will go out on loans in prep for next season. would like to see o’hare get a run but as the players have stepped up it less urgent, last season I was seeing in the youth the type of play I wanted for the 1st and the senior players seemed incapable of it.

    I do think Smith will push for the B-team system he had at Brentford allowing for a mix of 1st and youth to face better opposition and smooth transition when called on.

  185. IanG

    Mark
    What if Grealish is out for Saturday?
    Either o’Hare or Hourihane with Doyle-Hayes as DM,
    DS wants the young lads to go on loan to get proper match fit & learn the next step up.

  186. Mark King

    IanG- tough call mate, Grealish puts in a lot of graft but if we are calling him a 10 then O’hare. Might end up being Adomah comes in and gives Elgahzi a more central role. I like Hourihane in that holding/box to box role for his passing and ultimately thats where doyle-hayes could flourish. Thankfully I don’t think we will miss him as much as we have previously. Not sold on Hourihane in Jacks role though.

  187. Heroes-and-Villans

    about time they went on loan. been calling it for ages.

    Proper footy down a league to get them ready. u23 is just not the same.

    Yeah I guess there is plenty of ups and downs to come. still fuming with the last min goal! Plus Norwichs last min winner. big swing of points in the last min! small margins can mean a lot.

  188. Mark King

    one thing I like about ElGhazi is the type of goal he scored on friday is very typical of him, does it all the time so no one off, scored four in a behind closed doors match and had 3 disallowed!! thats accuracy for you. Practises shooting after traing with left and right feet apparently, a bit of Beckham/ Ronaldo like obsession about him.

  190. Mark King

    Andrew- We should be fuming about the 21 points we dropped prior to smith, just 10 of those would put us in 2nd, that or Smith would of had to win all his games. Can’t be helped and I think ultimately we will be fine, feels like promotion is likely more than in recent seasons to me but that could just be the exciting games each week.

  191. Heroes-and-Villans

    I like the look of el ghazi too…sign him up!

    reminds me a lot of la mela at spurs.

    We have been doing superbly but I still think jack and mcguin can do more.

    Jack imperticular seems a little bit off the boil last few games. and I said before mcguinn is so good needs to be on the ball more. in this 8 role can go missing for spells.

    Id love to see him in conors position, proper run the game from there.

  192. Mark King

    Andrew- depends how Smith see’s Stoke, it is a Gary Rowett team so not likely to be all out attack, not seen them play though. Last few games its been more about closing games out (unsuccessfully) and injury so we might see a surprise.

  193. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    yeah deffo, to be honest smith coming in quarter way through…new owners only just here. You need to be proper settled for success. Give smith a summer and 2 transfer windows next season could be decent.

    Not sure about the players we will have though and ffp!

  194. Mark King

    Andrew- Jacks feeling the knocks apparently for few games now, thats why he came off. Don’t think DM would suit McGinn, he’s got such a good engine and covers all areas of the pitch be a shame to shackle him to much.

  195. Mark King

    Andrew- last season I feared that if we went up it would be like a slaughter but I feel a bit more relaxed about it this season. Not ideal but the owners don’t mess about.

  197. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    yeah I guess the dm role would restrict him tbf.

    I just want him and jack on the ball more.

    The intent we are showing and the positivity is there now.

    I want us to be more assured on the ball. still way too many sloppy passes. but im picking and sure that will come.

  199. Mark King

    Andrew- I think the passing ebbs and flows dependent on the quality of opposition and style. Movement is much improved and players passing in the 80% region so a lot depends on the oppositions intent. I like that we mix it up with defenders breaking into midfield and the odd long pass.

  200. Clive Evans

    In the absence of Gov UK sacking its incompetent manager many people are on the bread-line – a Food Bank collection is to be held at Villa Park on Saturday 1.00 to 3.00 p.m. – collection points Aston Parish Church (Witton Lane) and Birchfield Gospel Hall (Witton Rd/Trinity Rd) – I would have taken a few tins if I lived in UK but I hope they get a few from those who do.

  201. DarrenO

    I’d suggest you have an incompetent government and Tory party, totally consumed by Brexit such that it has neglected all the other functions of government and maintains austerity, yet in the electorate’s wisdom it has sought to return some decision-making ability to a parliament that serves London primarily, some bloody nose to the establishment that was.

    Ireland isn’t exempt from this disease of poor politicians in case you think I’m being high and mighty but every MP is staking their political capital on what side of the brexit line they feel can either garner the most votes at the next election or determines for themselves that the EU is some sort of fascist state or it is actually better to be in a bigger trading bloc than on its own.

    There is a problem with May in that she is pro EU and the referendum which had no mandate on parliament was enforced by triggering Article 50 way too early, being pro EU is not a problem in itself but it can’t be anything but difficult to drive something you don’t believe in. Add to that in trying to avoid a no deal and cushioning the impact of leaving the EU, the deal is a fudge but for those MPs willing to complete a withdrawal agreement, none of them could have done any better. Even the JRMs of this world at various points advocated Norway plus deals or Canada plus deals because despite their vision of Empire 2.0 they can’t extricate themselves from the fact that this is a trading bloc right on the doorstep and a withdrawal agreement is needed.

    Those advocating a no deal and to trade under WTO rules, have satisfied themselves that the consequences are worth suffering, if you think the consequences are an exercise in project fear, then look at the markets reaction to a deferred brexit vote, business is fully aware (apart from Weatherspoons) of the potential impact and seeks to avoid a no deal.

    A no deal scenario suggests a reduction in GDP of 8% in the UK with parts facing 10-12%, a big impact on Ireland and 3% reduction in GDP in the EU. It’s like a sudden recession hitting the UK and all for what, lack of control of borders despite being one of the lowest countries in the EU to take in migrants and never signing up to Schengen anyway, lack of ability to conduct your own trade deals when wholly unprepared to do so and trading as a smaller bloc compared to the EU, taking back control of laws and no longer adhering to the ECJ, as above I wouldn’t trust the UK government with extra powers and the ECJ just voted to say the UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, not exactly a court of justice that is anti-UK.

    Targeting May is easy, targeting the government and all the bystander MPs shouting the odds but not stepping up would be better placed in my opinion.

  202. Paul Pears

    DOR,

    May I congratulate you on an excellent piece which is bang on the money, and which I wholeheartedly agree with. It definitely is not over until the fat lady sings (or not so fat). Corbyn is now plotting to play his cards with a no confidence vote, to bring down May and the government, at the same time her own party is plotting to bring her down, meanwhile the house vote of 498 to 107 against for us to implement article 50 and leave the EU now has turned on it’s own head and is looking for a second referendum from the opposition benches.

    This whole business should have been non political and an all party effort to get a proper agreement as wanted by the people.

    The bill for the Welfare state and the formation of the NHS was issued as a white paper in 1943 by Winston Churchill’s coalition government, which is why it succeeded in 1948.

  203. Mark King

    DOR- The whole of parliament should be sacked for incompetency, its nothing more than a surrender or con.

    Looking at the EU landscape with trouble in the east and south and recent rumblings between Merkel and Trump and the USA I’d say Europe is not exactly unified with itself let alone anyone else. Add the calls for an EU army, lowering CO2 and the rising electric car competition from around the world (especially China) Germany are up against it and the costs will only rise, they stand to be the biggest loser as they go up against China and others.

    Add to that Alternate energy markets are dropping as they are not really viable (yet or ever?) plus the burden of providing for the huge amount of refugee’s with no skills or language they have brought in. The world is changing and the EU is being left behind. There are shops closing everywhere, factories banks etc because of advances in tech as much as anything, the UK is about service industry’s and we are pretty good at tech, we have no manufacturing losing some 600,000 jobs in the last decade in that sector so we need to sell to the world.

    Brexit is not helping all of this but neither is the world shift in power or the race to cut CO2. I don’t think its down to some attempt to be British Empire mk11 either, just the fact the EU works for some and not all, we have a huge underclass in this country and minimum wage jobs, can it get much worse for some? I think we need to start addressing the UK’s problems and that will take more than money.

  204. Mark King

    PP- You have to ask why it was not made law to vote on Brexit? fine people if they had no excuse and run the vote over a week to make sure all can vote. politicians should of been held accountable for the information they presented/campaigned on, in truth the really should have been no campaign just the facts and the strategies we would use in either scenario presented.

  205. DarrenO

    I wouldn’t disagree MK, in the east, you have issues of relatively fledgling democracies sharing a border with expansionist Russia, which creates it own political difficulties/uncertainties, Putin must be loving a reduced strength EU focused on Brexit, immigration and fighting populism.

    To Germany’s discredit, they destroyed Italian manufacturing industry as it rivaled their own, Fiat of the 70s used to dominate the streets, now where are they beyond token retro cars like the Fiat 500, equally Spain has suffered from EU policy and the Euro.

    I wouldn’t take any heed of mumblings between Trump and Merkel, Trump is determined to ensure the Trump base sees relative inaction as strident attempts via twitter to put Germany or replace with any other country in its place in trade terms, its just international posturing for the purpose of promoting Trump News Network.

    VW now and BMW already have entries in the plug-in car market, companies like Mercedes and Opel aka Vauxhall lag way behind and will suffer, but like Japan in the 70s beating all other manufacturers at their own game having copied the west for the previous 20 years and then Europe copying Japan, China is on the same path and especially in terms of electric cars but the technology tends to be shared and enhanced and if battery range can be doubled from what it is now then the future is bright for EVs regardless of country of manufacture.

    As for immigration into the EU, I come from a country where emigration has been a necessity for centuries so have compassion for those less fortunate seeking a better life (including my own family) so why not try and accommodate them, there are many fears both justified and completely without foundation but to turn your back on someone because they don’t meet certain criteria will say more about British policy towards the world than it does about the immigrants themselves. I do acknowledge Britain needs a policy to address it’s existing population but that won’t come about with Tory trickle down economics being continually voted into government, they will be quite happy to maintain the status quo of the haves and the have nots. Labour needs to come to terms with itself as being social democrats as the deeply red side of Labour needs to address the fact that capitalism is not worth fighting anymore but distribution of wealth/industry is.

    Ireland has just announced that it will produce renewable gas using slurry, other farm waste and grass and as 51% of gas is used to fire our electricity production, add to that offshore wind farm investment then our current poor standing in terms of CO2 emission should alter in the coming years but like anything for there to be investment in alternate energy, business has to see a profit as opposed to some societal kudos, that needs to change.

  206. John Lerwill

    Clive: “I would have taken a few tins if I lived in UK but I hope they get a few from those who do.”

    There’s a very healthy foodbank system in the UK now (though it shouldn’t need to exist) with much of the credit due to the Trussell Trust, and food collection tubs at Tesco’s are over-filed every wee, so I shouldn’t be overly-concerned, Clive.

    There is an extra effort at Chrismas, hence the collection you described.

  207. John Lerwill

    Darren and all,

    I think all we’re exhibiting here are examples of powerful opinions being stated which are equally powerful from all different angles.

    The effect is that nearly every household in the UK is divided on opinion – no unity on anything.

    The cause really has to be the democratic system and being persuaded to vote at election for the party who most seems likely to fill our pockets, rather than for a party that is likely to apply wisdom in governing the country. Consequently, we get the politicians we deserve. They become worse with each generation, with a few exceptions.

    We now have two leaders of the main parties who are both rather unfit for purpose, sorry to say.

    It’s not very different elsewhere in the world, with the major exception being Modi of India and also the return of the old Malaysian PM is beginning to cause better stability in Malaysia.

    There has been a downward spiral of governments since 2008 and it will all come to a head in the next very few years – maybe within 5 years.

    We have to change our ways. Simples.

  208. Paul Pears

    Some excellent comments MK/DOR making a lot of sense. It is good to see people discussing sensibly here, which is what has been needed in politics for years.

    Yesterday I spent over 5 hours listening to Parliament live and many of the 164 members who spoke, but nothing was really achieved, no-one gave proper definitive answers, and the same/similar questions kept being repeated. Surely it is time that this Punch and Judy house of commons worked together to achieve results in the interest of the nation, and not the factions of DUP, SNP, ERG, and party political scoring points.

    If so many really wanted to stay in the EU, then they should have voted for it in the first place.

  209. Paul Pears

    I am also getting a real feeling that at grass roots level in this country, if we do not now leave the EU, there will be serious rioting on the streets, as they have had enough of the arguments, living in austerity, and they feel that the French have got results from their government by demonstration and riots.

  210. John Lerwill

    Darren: “I do acknowledge Britain needs a policy to address it’s existing population”

    Yes, but it’s not quite as simple as that as most of the country’s business is concentrated south of Scotland and the population mainly packed into a realtively small area. Hence there is already overcrowding in many areas and projects such as HS2 that threaten more of that space.

    With a lack of housing and services being maintained at the right level it’s difficult to bring in many people.

    The UK population stood at 51-55 million for many years and suddenly (these last 20 years)it zipped up into the 60 millions. That’s a big impact on its infrastructure and in a time of austerity, too.

  211. Paul Pears

    Have just spoken to the “Jeremy Vine Show” and re-iterated what I have said about the feelings above, and he confirmed that a lot of people have phoned in and said the same, that if the government does not deliver, there will be riots.

  212. John Lerwill

    PP,

    Though I disagree with you on what might happen if we don’t leave the EU. you may be right that extreme protest take place. But it’s we that didn’t use our own intelligence that has primarily caused this state of affairs. In particular the 2016 referendum was a fiasco and no right-minded person should rely on the result of that to determine a country’s future i.m.o. It was the result of wishful thinking. Now we know more of the realities and why we need a second vote.

    We have listened to politicians for far too long, but at the same time there needs to be proper leadership – and there’s the critical issue of climate change where our union with the EU would be better served, despite all the faults of the EU.

  213. Paul Pears

    You are correct JL,
    The problem being that successive governments have failed to ensure that development throughout the UK was done so that there was an even distribution of growth, and the old saying of “Go west young man” has been exactly the opposite, and the development has been always south and east.

  215. Mark King

    Brexit didn’t just happen its been bubbling for years remember Browns altercation with an old lady up north and him being caught out calling here a bigot? legitimate concerns of the working class have been called racist with good old identity politics.

    The Eastern countries joining and our businesses buggering off to set up there have left the UK with lowered wages to compete and high prices. Add a cheap work force available for the rich to exploit and voilà. Keep this up and the company’s that want to sell to the rich EU market will find they don’t have one left, they also want to not pay taxes to maximise their profits, The EU in my eyes particularly Germany have allowed this to happen.

  216. John Lerwill

    MK,

    The only kind of government you seem to want is either communist or simply a free-for-all! 😀

    Based on material considerations, no government system is going to end successfully.

    We really need to have government based on a system of values. To me it seems we have to go back to the drawing board and work it all out afresh.

  217. DarrenO

    Hi JL

    Nothing is simple in governing and subsequent policy development and its execution.

    On a different scale, we have the same issues as Britain, industry gravitates to Dublin, therefore investment and therefore servicing the population issues arise. But also the drain from the regional towns and villages has meant their decline.

    There are incentives in terms of foreign direct investment to invest outside of Dublin and we’ve truly benefitted from EU funding in terms of road infrastructure but there is a long way to go to strike an appropriate balance.

    We don’t have an NHS, we have a two tier system where those who can’t afford medical care is paid for by the state and those that can afford it tend to pay for private health insurance, for example its €60 to see a GP but I can claim back €45 thru my health insurance, it’s the system that we are used to. However we have major issues around waiting times and unavailability of beds so many patients are left on trolleys.

    Most Irish people are genuinely surprised by immigrants even knowing about our little country so do on the most part receive a warm welcome, notwithstanding we do have ignorant racists too. Many immigrants choose to integrate into Irish society but it will be more so by the next generation as they go to school and third level and onto work that integration will be completed, equally many chose not to integrate to everyone’s loss as it creates a distrust.

    Eastern Europeans seem to be great home drinkers and money conscious, we’re not sure what is wrong with our pubs that they don’t come for a drink with us other than the price of a pint.

    We have a homeless issue, there are around 10000 homeless in Ireland (again think scale) and many houses that could be made habitable and not enough social housing being built.

    So we too need a forward thinking, humanitarian approach to the well-being of those most needy in our society.

  218. John Lerwill

    Darren: “So we too need a forward thinking, humanitarian approach to the well-being of those most needy in our society.”

    Exactly, and hence my argument for going back to the drawing board and working out a comprehensive system of values to govern by. At present it’s business (including the banking sector) that tends to dictate what goes on.

  219. Mark King

    Jl- I’m not advocating anything just looking at the history really, there’s been a growing sense of we are being done.

    We seem to be advocating and producing individuals in our schools universities and in general. Great if you want a work force with no roots and allegences but perhaps beholden to the state.

    Meanwhile our own culture is frowned on and multiculturalism promoted. To me that’s arse about face, nobody tells polish, Pakistani, Indian etc to forget their histories and pasts why should they? yet that’s exactly what’s happening in Europe and the uk, we are supposed to be ashamed somehow of if it’s achievements. lets celebrate everyone’s else’s culture but our own.

    Note I’m not talking about england football fan level culture here or the pub culture but the rich heritage/history thats no longer taught nor allowed to have pride in.

    Good luck to the EU in trying to get the Eastern European nations to give up their identities they have more sense.

    You say we should go back to the drawing board but maybe we should remember where we came from to produce the west before the money men took over.

  220. Paul Pears

    JL,
    I certainly am not advocating mob rule, but I am quite aware of the feeling that is building within the country, and is very concerning, as the groundswell builds by the day.

    Normal people, who for years have been tolerant of the circumstances in this country, are now reaching the end of their tether, and the past riots in Tottenham, and Dudley and the black country will seem very mediocre, in comparison, and the ability to deal with any form of serious uprisings, no longer exists, through lack of police officers and a complete run down of the armed forces.

    I sincerely hope that this government is able to deliver what the people want, but so far, it looks unlikely.

  221. John Lerwill

    MK,

    You just like to have a good moan! 😀

    Yes, there are certain things go against the grain, but I don’t think multiculturalism has gone too far – the point is that we can’t expect others just to become British because we want them to yet at the same time there has to be inclusivity.

    What we do if we couldn’t have an Indian or a Chines take-away? 🙂

  222. John Lerwill

    PP,

    Your last para delivers a suitable hope. But the answer is that this government must be one of the weakest we have known (our life-time) and will probably not know how to deal with any major reaction.

    It will be interesting to see what a general election would bring about.

  223. IanG

    Yawn
    Good moaning!

    Having risen [from the mini death called sleep].
    You lot do go on.
    Riots – have any of you actually been in a riot other than accidentally [a 70’s football match doesn’t count].
    The lot of you couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery, let alone complain properly.
    It actually might be more entertaining than you lot.

    As for B’it, yawn, you don’t think the maybot wants to lose power do you [or any of them], there is a script you know.
    Extreme posturing to say the least, & as for the grannies rioting, well at least they are becoming visible, & personally showing their true colours.
    They’ve been trying to work out how to become relevant for years, & still haven’t got the idea.

    If you think Jeremy Vine is relevant except for the mentally & emotionally challenged, what does that say?
    People’s real religion?

    Can we come back to football please, it’s too early to take this.

  226. Mark King

    IanG- Riots yep back in the 80’s in sleepy old Banbury believe it or not, we had mounted police on the streets for a year afterwards every weekend. Of course there is nobody rioting we are completely divided and have little idea why we should, wonder how that happened 🙂 Football? to much good news on the Villa front.

  228. John Lerwill

    MK: “You say we should go back to the drawing board but maybe we should remember where we came from to produce the west before the money men took over.”

    I nearly overlooked this!

    What a lot of tosh! What happened back then was what happened back then when man still thought he could do whatever he liked (within certain parameters). Our approach caused either the repression of certain cultures or virtually the complete disappearance of some.

    “Produced the west”? The only thing we produced that’s been an advance is Aston Villa FC! 😀

    Oh, and Cadbury’s chocolate.

    The big plus about British culture has been its creative ingenuity.

  229. Mark King

    JL- Nothing wrong with multiculturalism if we are talking about customs etc its when it encroaches on rule of law, voting etc the problems arise. You have to have a common ground as a nation surely, can’t see you getting your moral makeover the way things are.

    Just saw something interesting, 23 billions of tonnes of microbes living beneath the earth surface. They have drilled 3 miles down. 70% of earths bacteria are estimated to live there. Wonder how much co2 they produce?

  230. Mark King

    IanG- no were orrible hosts, if it wasn’t the police it was the GI’s or the gypsies and any football team that parked its coach near the Cross hoping for a late pint, I remember when the M40 opened and five fingered people turned up.

  234. John Lerwill

    MK: “You have to have a common ground as a nation surely, can’t see you getting your moral makeover the way things are.”

    Not true. We are not talking about intellectually-based morals. True human values are shared by everyone, I would have thought, irrespective of background.

    no culture is spotless but we have been very creative in the west.

    Our main achievements in this area were a long time ago and everything since has been in partnership with others, including Europe, or taken over by others.

  241. IanG

    PP
    Not correct.
    He is only a week after an op, but is reported to be walking about at BH, & it won’t be long before he is in full training.

  247. Heroes-and-Villans

    brentfords sawyer heavily linked. been with deano since Walsall days. But do we need another cm. may be cover for jack there saying. he could be out for 3 months.

    Also linked to cahill and mings

  254. Mark King

    KMac has stood down for the moment, under investigation for bullying and according to his accuser Farrelly

    He believes of MacDonald: “I say, and I maintain this position, that his regime destroyed far more kids than he ever developed … If people had been treated better, fairly, you can’t say they would definitely have made it but they would have had an opportunity to develop and kick on more.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/13/aston-villa-remove-kevin-macdonald-coaching-new-bullying-claims-gareth-farrelly

  259. Heroes-and-Villans

    aren’t stoke our boget team at vp?

    Theres a few teams at the top playing each other so good chance to make ground.

    Ian

    That’s a good idea. one thing is for sure smith would of been working on it all week.

  261. Mark King

    IanG- Farrelys now a lawyer? worse he used to be a footballer, far more greedy and less trustworthy. Its a weird one Kmac keeps getting these accusations though, you would think it would have been more kids though.

    No Adomah , thor or lansbury so unless Ohare plays its a fair old chop around to play Kodjia out left and elghazi at ten. Can’t imagine stork are scintillating under Rowett but 7 unbeaten now.

  262. IanG

    Mark
    Well we live in revisionist times.
    Footballers wouldn’t have liked the army, or our early times, such delicate flowers.
    I think it was Jack that said that he yells a lot until you realise that what he’s saying is right [if they want to learn], & that he owes him a lot, as he wouldn’t be where he is without that.
    I pointed out to one of Farrelly’s ilk once as he was going on about anyone under 21 is a child, that my grandmother was married at 14, & he looked at me as if I was a pedophile & refused to talk to me.
    No sense of proportion, or moral compass, & it’s usually more about them than what they’re investing their ire in.

  263. IanG

    Mark
    Sadly political correctness will possibly have another victim.
    It’s currently all lumped together with the football sexual deviants that have been uncovered.
    I suppose it all becomes hysteria if you don’t know who you are.

  264. Paul Pears

    It would appear from the comments by Farrelly, it was purely bullying in the form of very strict discipline along the lines of a typical army recruiting sergeant, rather than anything else.
    There was no arms around the shoulder stuff, but a case of get on with it, or lump it.

    Will have to wait and see what comes out of the can at the end of the day, and what exactly Farrelly is expecting from it. I know several Villa youngsters have commented in the past about it being a very unloving regime, and not family orientated, which it was years ago, back in the days of Ron Saunders and Joe Mercer.

  265. Mark King

    IanG- you would think as it was mid 90’s that Farrely would be a bit more hardened having been a born in the late 70’s so I don’t know if its got any legs or not, can’t imagine he was laid into.

    Reminds me of the two occasions I went through the Fire brigades tests, when I was thirty they beasted you both mentally and physically, Broke my wrist soon after playing footy so was told they couldn’t take me as it overlapped with the start of training.

    Then the rules changed from nobody over 31 can apply to anyone can so I tried again at 35. passed all the tests and the same blokes that had sworn at me before were encouraging me 🙂 still didn’t join though went off the idea and went off to work for myself.

  266. Clive Evans

    https://heartoftheholte.online/2018/12/15/what-to-expect-in-the-january-transfer-window/
    Just thought I would get that in while it’s on my pasteboard.
    Farrely – wimp – Agree with you Mark – should have been training with me in the Brecon Beacons and earned a red beret – and we didn’t get thousands a week to fight for our country. Bet he kept his pants on in the showers!
    Back on track – O’Hare is my choice to replace Jack on the assumption that Hourihane is in midfield.

    On the January window we need a goalkeeper, a centre back and a left back – the Heartoftheholte page is on the money – we have plenty of right backs but nothing on the left. Having just watched Sheffield United romp down Albion’s wing there is a need. WBA was lucky last night.
    There is a strength in depth elsewhere. Why Steve Bruce got shot of our existing central defenders only he can say.
    We need 3 points from both Stoke and Leeds

  267. Plug

    Right then. Today offers a chance to make up some ground on those above us as some of them clash in this weeks fixtures.

    No Jack…….weather conditions forecast to be poor……Stoke a bogey team (Andrew above)…….Prutton on Sky Gambling backing us to win for the first time in weeks (IanG above).

    Another performance where we swarm forward should do the trick. I have every faith in DS and his selections for today. Can’t wait.

  268. IanG

    Clive Evans
    Fighting for Queen & country?
    Now you’re showing your age again oh elder one.
    It was tough in the 40’s as I can attest, but you were only about 2 or 3 at the end of the war, so really tough times if they sent you up Brecon Beacons.

  269. IanG

    Plug
    ‘I have every faith in DS and his selections for today. Can’t wait’

    Me too, I feel optimistic.
    I also think that things like Andrew’s bogy teams are a thing of the past with DS & co.
    The slate has been wiped clean

  273. IanG

    Clive Evans
    So?
    You really need a sense of humour maybe.
    And I was obviously not denigrating your record just your tendency to take it so seriously so many years later.
    With humour, something you might enjoy.

  275. IanG

    Andrew
    Yes was looking at that, & he sounds a good prospect, except for the injuries.
    But I suppose most young players seem to get injury problems these days until they’re in their early 20’s.
    Around 37,000 they say.
    Is the upper Trinity open?

  277. IanG

    Interesting bench, & Keinan Davis is back, & O’Hare & James Bree, along with Hogan & Reven & Codger.
    Lot of different options there.

    Well pn my way to my mates to listen in company, so out of internet range for a while.
    Really looking forward to it.

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