In the autumn of 1966, the Board had rejected a shareholders’ offer for putting the club back on its feet and then resisted attempts by the Shareholders’ Association to install their own directors. The club then went straight down (in 1967, for the third time) and it looked like a long-term proposition, even though the Villa team appeared – on paper at least – capable of getting back. But a lot of those players were becoming worn out after years of fighting against the inevitable. While Bobby Moore was being acclaimed for his World Cup exploits, Alan Deakin (once tipped as Moore’s partner in the England team) left for obscurity.
The West Midlands coincidentally experienced the shock of Coventry City coming up into the top flight immediately on the departure of the Villa, and with Birmingham City also in the lower division, Coventry were in a rare supreme moment over their big-city neighbours.
The contrast between Villa and Coventry was also greatly marked in the forward-looking way in which the Coventry club was promoted under Jimmy Hill. And that modern-looking example could also be seen across Birmingham at the Warwickshire County Cricket Club. Villa’s Board was still marking time in believing that because the Villa were Villa, recovery would just take place by its own momentum. Their pride in the fame of the club had resulted in a serious form of myopia; they had not learnt the lessons of the immediate post-war years when many a season seemed to produce a crisis. It required a Board to be forward-looking to get out of that cycle, but they seemed unable.
Dennis Shaw of the Sports Argus remarked that Villa’s backroom was “beyond any dispute, one of the weakest and cheese-pairing in the top two divisions. The Board is to blame.” But, as usually happens, it was the team manager that got the blame for Villa’s plight, and Dick Taylor was replaced by Tommy Cummings, an old Burnley stalwart well versed in the tradition of developing fine youngsters, as had been the case at Turf Moor. The then powerful Burnley were famed for playing ‘carpet’ football – and that is the tradition that Cummings wanted to re-invent at Villa Park. However, Villa’s neat football up front was often brushed aside by hard-tackling defences in 1967-68. And Cummings did not gain the respect of the players.
Results were not going at all well and with the club seventh from the bottom of the Second Division, supporters in their thousands absented themselves: revolution was in the air. The supporters showed their displeasure in January, 1968, when a call was made for the resignation of the board en masse. At an EGM the Board managed to survive the crisis – for now. The Board then brought in two young directors (Ladbrooke and MacKay) at the AGM, but not the names that were being agitated for by the pressure group: Harry Parkes and Harry Kartz.
Villa started to invest in new players with more clout in the summer of 1968, but decay was still inherent at Villa Park. With that plus the results emanating from playing tactics not suited outside of the top flight, slow-handclapping from the fans was evident from August. Results did not go at all well in the autumn of 1968, leading to a woeful home defeat to Preston on November 9, 1968 which left the Villa marooned at the foot of the old Second Division table. Relegation to the Third Division would indeed be breaking unwanted new ground.
The Preston match was attended by a meagre 13,374 crowd and, late in the second half, a few youths started chanting “The Board must go!” There was a big demonstration by fans against the Board a few minutes before the end of the match. “Resign!” was shouted over and over again. Later, mounted police were called in to disperse angry fans from outside the club’s offices.
This situation was the catalyst for Villa supporters John Russell and Brian Evans, who became so disillusioned that they took action via the unprecedented step of rallying fellow fed-up fans to meet and try to determine the future of Aston Villa.
With Tommy Cummings already having been shown the door at Villa Park, a fans’ meeting was called for November 21 at the Digbeth Civic Hall. The meeting was attended by some 1,000 supporters but these fans did not believe they would be as successful as it transpired. George Edwards, a former star player and a prominent member of the rebel group, summed up the situation with feeling: “The aura of greatness is no longer with us. … Once, the air at Villa Park used to be electric and the whole place was alive.” The fans made the Villa Board aware of the feeling now manifest; Brian Evans called upon “… the many shareholders, perhaps from the industrialists of the Midlands, to step forward and seize this opportunity.”
Several different groups emerged with plans for the future of Aston Villa, including those led by the chairman of Walsall FC (Ron Harrison) and the former Lord Mayor of Birmingham (Sir Frank Price) and even a cross-Atlantic move from Atlanta Chiefs, the club that the recent Villan Phil Woosnam was associated with.
But matters dragged on to the extent that a deputation of four Villa supporters (led by Brian Evans) met the Board. The meeting was not entirely constructive and the supporters then proposed a boycott at Villa Park in an effort to move the matters along. But against all expectations, only two days later, recapitalisation of the club was promised by the Board. It all happened as though the skittles were at last ready for falling over. In December 1968, it was financier Pat Matthews who produced the rescue package that was accepted and the old Board was removed. The new Board consisted of Bob MacKay (the sole survivor of the previous Board), Harry Kartz, Harry Parkes (a former long-serving player) and Doug Ellis, who was appointed chairman.
The club takeover having been accomplished, the appointment of a team manager was the next goal, and this was soon achieved. Tommy ‘Doc’ Docherty (not long since a popular Chelsea manager with firm ideas on youth development) filled the bill and he was ecstatically welcomed at the Christmas Villa Park fixture by a massive crowd. He was given a standing ovation and rather regarded as being Aston Villa’s messiah. In his opening speech, he (somewhat prophetically) said: “I’d love to stay at Villa Park for the rest of my career, but in football who can tell?”
Letters poured in to Docherty, but he didn’t have a secretary to answer the mail! He was, however, well-experienced in meeting the media, and in writing his column in the Sports Argus in January he referred to an expected visit by a Dutch TV crew to talk to himself, Doug Ellis and Eric Woodward (the newly appointed commercial manager – a new kind of post at the club). The TV company explained: “In Holland, Aston Villa is the best known club in Britain.”
Doc, whom author Peter Morris once described as “one of football’s stormy petrels, as a player and a manager”, had a penchant for punchy and witty statements, and became well remembered for the line: “If Aston Villa players went to a laundry to hang out their washing, 10,000 fans would turn up to watch them.” In fact, that statement fully epitomised the euphoria that existed at that point in time. The fans had already taken a rose-coloured view of the future and the potential for the club to return to former greatness. Many fans believed that the corner had already been turned, but it was never going to be that simple.
Former Villan Harry Parkes (now a director) brought a taste of caution to the carnival atmosphere by commenting on the things to be done and little time to do them, and that they cost money. There were revelations about how the old regime had a privilege ticketing system even during the club’s downturn. In short, a lot of rebuilding needed to be done. Still, a letter with a £5 postal order had been received from a man in Zambia saying he had followed Villa for 45 years and hoped that his contribution would help. Villa needed quite a few thousand supporters to take a similar attitude. The club went out and found them.
Docherty also worked his magic in those first few months of 1969, and – almost by sheer willpower, but mostly dreary football – the Villa survived relegation to fight another day. The club was now riding on a tide of long-suppressed emotion and Doc had brought back the support onto the terraces.
Approaching the start of the new season (1969-70), no-one expected anything to go wrong, especially when the club spent a six-digit sum on one player (the much sought after Bruce Rioch) for the first time, and also bought others – all young players. At an actual cost of £400,000, Villa had the most expensive side in the old Second Division.
Income, however, was much improved once the old season ticket holders’ and guests’ privileges had been taken away. Advance season ticket sales rose to £68,000 as against the previous season’s £20,000. And additional shares were issued that brought in over £200,000. On top of that, people rallied round in droves and some gave voluntary help in the ground’s much-needed refurbishment; and Villa enjoyed additional income from new features at Villa Park such as the Vice-President’s Club.
When the fans turned up on the opening day of the season they were willing to cheer anything, but, tragically, they ended up giving the slow-handclap. The Doc’s medicine was soon found to be wanting. By January, 1970 (just over 12 months since his arrival) Villa were again heading for relegation – this time to Division Three. Doc left Villa Park, to be succeeded by the reserve team’s boss, and former Villa stalwart, Vic Crowe. Vic had only returned to the UK a few months before after helping his old Villa and Wales colleague Phil Woosnam in running the NASL Atlanta Chiefs club. But Vic’s appointment proved to be too late to prevent exit to the third tier.
The wise Eric Houghton ruefully commented: “They should have bought ex-Division One players, building youth around them towards gaining promotion in three or so years, rather than thinking it was round the corner.” Houghton was also unhappy with the desire to cut the club off from the past. He felt that was a mistake: “Aston Villa was built on class and the slogan that nothing but the best is good enough for Villa.” Eric’s comment was triggered by the introduction of a total change to the club’s strip at the start of the season, which was minus the light blue sleeves and altogether a non-classical design. One of Vic Crowe’s first acts on taking over was to revert to the previous season’s strip, and then (for the 1970-71 season) modified Docherty’s design by having the light blue sleeves re-instated.
As Houghton had intimated, there were to be no short-cuts to the club’s recovery. The full process of re-building had to take its course, and the cycle would take another five years (eight years overall). During the course of this time, there were developments off the pitch as well as on it, including (for the first time) the installation of private boxes for hire under the Trinity Road Stand at premium rates. It was the start of the hospitality concept at Villa Park, and this was combined with a totally re-designed and award-winning match programme and also a magazine (initially in the form of a newspaper). One big step forward was the reinstatement of the club’s own training ground, this time at Bodymoor Heath, in 1971. Latterly, the Villa had to use rented facilities since the selling-off of the club’s training ground six years before.
The experience of the club being at such a low level in the League caused the Villa fanbase to be in a state of shock to start with, but it did not take too long before the fans’ enthusiasm re-asserted itself. This was especially when the Villa embarked on a highly successful League Cup run that only ended at Wembley, having beaten Manchester United in the semis. In fact, even though Villa did not win the Cup, they received more of an ovation from the crowd than Spurs, the winners! Added to that, the appearance of Aston Villa in the Third Division provided a challenge for the other clubs and the Villa attracted great crowds wherever they went—ground records were frequently broken.
Aston Villa spent two seasons at that level before winning the division title and having made friends wherever they went. The feeling by then was that the club had only now turned the corner, but the fans again developed a sense of euphoria after Santos, the great Pele’s club, was invited to play a friendly at Villa Park in the early days of 1972. Villa won. Adding to the heady atmosphere was the fact of Villa’s youth team winning the F.A. Youth Cup for the first time that year under Frank Upton. Two of its players were to become long-term first-team stars.
The hope now was that it was Route One to the top, but all was not united in the boardroom and musical chairs seemed to be the name of the game in the summer of 1972. Jim Hartley replaced Doug Ellis as chairman and Villa’s old loyalist Harry Parkes was replaced by a cricketer (Alan Smith). Harry Kartz resigned because of business commitments and was replaced by Dick Greenhalgh. But, by October, Ellis was back as chairman. MacKay and Greenhalgh were voted off, to be replaced by the returning Harry Kartz and Eric Houghton. Ellis’s reputation as a no-nonsense wheeler-dealer became set, and, as a result, the boardroom lacked harmony for the next two years.
Back in the Second Division, Villa made an attempt at instant promotion to the top flight but they were not in the same class as the eventual (two) promoted teams. In the following May, Sir William Dugdale and Harry Cressman came onto the board. The next season, Villa again had a push for promotion, but by the New Year it was clear that the push was not going to succeed, with further boardroom affairs affecting the team’s play. The situation caused the Villa to lose their brightest player (Rioch) as he was clearly of a different class; if Rioch happened to be off-form or injured the whole team would be off-form. He had now got to his mid-20s and his leaving was inevitable in those circumstances. He left to play in the top-flight, and to go on to play for Scotland.
The editor of the Sports Argus published an open letter (directed at Doug Ellis) expressing no doubt that dissatisfaction was rife amongst the fans and that the team’s performances had gone downhill since the boardroom upheaval of the previous year. Ellis did not directly respond to that missive but, to the editor’s surprise, Vic Crowe was dismissed after the end of the season, in company with his assistant and former playing colleague Ron Wylie. Crowe had (only days before) turned down the offer of the job as full-time manager of Wales, believing his future was with the Villa. Crowe – like Houghton – was a true claret and blue.
With Villa fans wondering when Brian Clough would be coming, Clough said: “Any manager would want to take on such a job with a club like Aston Villa. It is a big club, a club that should always be among the championship chasers. I would probably have taken up the post there if I had been approached — but nobody asked me.” Cloughie was not asked; Ron Saunders arrived instead. Straight away there were boardroom disputations over Saunders’ contract terms, with the matter being resolved by Doug Ellis standing down and Sir William Dugdale stepping up. Ellis would not hold the chairman’s job again for another eight years and during that time the club would achieve its greatest successes on the pitch since before the First World War.
The biggest issue in the boardroom was that Ellis was ultra-cautious about expenditures, preferring to keep the ship healthily afloat rather than risk going into the financial unknown. Villa supporters — after years of waiting in the wings – wanted visible success pure and simple and without boardroom wranglings and without wanting to know about financial concerns. By changing the chairman and the business ethos, the Board then felt they were responding to what the fans wanted them to do. However, it was the need for Ellis’s more cautious approach that effectively necessitated his eventual return, though the means of his return were triggered by somewhat different issues.
Saunders’ start as manager was emphatic, achieving promotion to the top tier at the first attempt and also winning the League Cup. And then a season to consolidate. In 1976-77 Villa finished at their highest league level since the 1932-33 season (4th, as well as winning the League Cup again) in a season when the great Liverpool were demolished 5-1 at Villa Park; Arsenal and Ipswich (then under Bobby Robson) suffered a similar fate. Between 1977 and 1980 there had been a few tricky moments for Saunders, but he negotiated them skilfully and, importantly, the Board (without Ellis as chairman) gave him both time and sufficient finance to make a difference. Saunders demanded (and got) a great deal of financial recognition for his players, assistants and himself. This period, though, was not without continued disturbances in the boardroom.
Eric Houghton (then a director) was worried during this period that “pettiness could sink the Villa”, and went on to say:
“I cannot understand why top players have left, why a good secretary [Alan Bennett] has gone and why excellent directors are no longer with us. I would like to bring back more friendliness into the club. More laughter and good football; that’s what it was like in the old days. There should be more honey and less vinegar.”
Doug Ellis, though no longer chairman, had proclaimed himself as “the people’s champion”, but in December, 1979 he left the Board, eleven years to the month after his arrival. The in-feuding between he and Ron Bendall (in particular) had gone too far. Twelve months later it was noted that peace had reigned on the Villa Board over the preceding year. Any differences were now kept within four walls.
In 1980, the year following Ellis’s departure from the Board, Saunders put in the final touches to his patiently assembled squad, and Villa won the League Championship for the first time in 61 years.
As in all great teams, the triumphant Villa team was composed of a careful blend of home-grown players with bought-in players. And all were players that had determination in their veins – they were playing because they wanted success, not just to enjoy themselves, though some – like Brian Little and Tony Morley – seemed to have to be reminded (by Saunders) of their place from time to time.
When Saunders arrived in 1974 he had found a rich array of young talent at his disposal, of whom Brian Little and John Gidman were outstanding examples. He also found experienced players of great commitment, like Robson, Nicholl, Graydon and Ross, and also Charlie Aitken, who was soon to end his 14-year first-team stint. That was essentially the group that provided the core needs of Saunders’ first two years. Then, after consolidation in the top tier, a fresh group of young players filtered through, with Gordon Cowans being the outstanding name. And it would not be too long before more came through, like Gary Williams and Garry Shaw. But with adroit purchases like Dennis Mortimer, Frank Carrodus, Andy Gray, Kenny Swain and Colin Gibson, followed by Allan Evans, Ken McNaught, Tony Morley and Des Bremner, Ron Saunders seemed to hardly put a foot wrong. The final signing before the championship-winning event was the icing on the cake: Peter Withe.
Having qualified for the European Cup, 1981-82 saw the Villa making a strong surge in that competition. Saunders was at the top of his game as Villa closed in on the semi-finals – but then he had a summit meeting with the Villa chairman of that time, Ron Bendall. As the West Midlands entered an economic depression, there had been a marked affect on gate revenues, and the Board were now worried about the roll-on clause that they had previously agreed in Saunders’ contract, plus the considerable cost of players’ wages. Villa’s players were at that time reputed to be on the richest deals in the League.
Saunders apparently saw himself (after more than seven years of evolutionary success) as being a future big cog in the club; he wanted an improved deal and the matter of a new contract had been on the ‘backburner’ for more than two years. With no meeting of minds, the outcome (a great shock to all) was that Saunders walked out of the club. He had left Villa to make their own way to the European Cup semi-final and (as it transpired) the final under his former assistant, Tony Barton. Regardless, and against all the odds, Villa won the European Cup that year and it was Tony Barton who suddenly became the hero of the moment.
Saunders has said: “They showed a complete lack of respect for me and a complete lack of trust in my ability” and that he left because he felt it the right thing to do. But he appears to have left feeling hurt rather than appraising himself of the financial aspect of running the club and the difficult phase the club appeared to have been entering. Success did not result in riches and the Board were (again) struggling to find the answers: it was an old Villa problem that had not gone away and the Premier League was still 10 years away. But 1981 had seen the start of sponsorship as a means of supplementing gate money.
Unwittingly, however, by being firm on a tight financial policy in his dealing with Saunders, Bendall was emulating Ellis and opened a door for Ellis to return. And the door was to open wider.
(c) 2017, by John Lerwill.
Next time: Part 4, Since Ellis’s Return.
The Author
John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.Comments 41
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Hello, John.
Thanks again for another interesting leader.
Do you see any parellel between the way Ron Saunders left Villa in 81/82 and the way MON walked out in 2010? Do you think Ron Saunders put his pride ahead of Villa’s interests? Why would he really walk away from a team that seemingly was at the top of its game? What about MON?
I know there’re different eras and Saunders built that team largely from local talent. MON seemed to buy in more.
brilliant knowledge John.
thank you very much for the posts.
Viila linked to some good young players. a defender from chester, hughes and Gallagher at striker on loan to Blackburn from saints.
watched the taylor tackle on coleman….meh, 2 full blooded challenges. seen a lot worse and no one be injured
Iana,
Hang on! 😉 The last instalment will be up on Wednesday.
Andrew,
Many thanks for that kind comment.
Much of this four-part series is taken from my book “Aston Villa – The First Superclub” (now out of print), but updated to include much additional research, notably more on Jimmy Hogan.
[Previous thread] IanG: “JL/MK – The NHS situation is much deeper, a sum of it’s parts.
What you both say would be bad enough but understandable to most people if there was not so many agendas & manipulation going on underneath. …
Yes, but I think what I was awkwardly trying to put across is that the issues with regard to the financial maintenance of the NHS arose and have further developed because of pressures (of demand) on its services. That if there had been more self-knowledge taught to the nation about lifestyles there would not have been such a pressure on the NHS.
All that may seem common sense now, but the fact is that route was not taken yonks ago because no-one wanted to slow down the economy by restricting sales of what we now might see as rubbish – and also damaging to health.
Again John an excellent well researched write up. I never thought I’d see a return to the dark days of the 60’s, well not as bad, but bad enough. As I previuosly posted, we have a wonderful opportunity to rebuild. And In think the process is very much in progress.
Whats your thoughts John, have we now, as they say “got our ducks in order” regarding the structure of the club at boardroom level. History of the club clearly indicates a settled progressive board inspires success on the pitch.
Archie,
Well, I’m interested in what *your* views are! 😉
I agree that we seem to be en route in a better way under the new chairman, but it is still very early days to properly tell. It’s just that the soundbites seem good and relevant.
Whether the ducks are in order is still a bit early to tell I think.
Well John its all crystal gazing at this point in time, I’m quite positive about the future and confident about promotion next season. We’re in the very early stages at the moment and I think as the club progresses starting with promotion the boardroom will also evolve. I would like to see some stability at that level and as you observed in your write up, to stay ahead of the times and not be reliant on the Aston Villa Football Club brand but be focused on current trends in the football industry.
Stand still…you go backwards.
The journey continues
Arch
Andrew
Taylor tackle was worse live than replays showed, and one of papers today has named a couple more instants of Taylor thuggery even when he broke his own ankle it was his own fault, if it was codger out with a double fracture would it be just ok, but if the ref had done his job less than a minute before bale should have been sent off for equally as bad a challenge
James
yeah agree the ref could of managed it better. let it keep boiling over.
Watched it on replay a dozen times, never as bad as the ‘media’ twitter world made out.
Villa want to sign Johnson for 3 mill. everton, bornemouth, sunderald also keen though.
3 mill for him would be a snip.
hope coleman gets back to his best.
terrific player. could play for any team in the prem.
Andrew,
Agreed with you on your comments about the Taylor tackle … in today’s game that was par for the course in my view, but it was not malicious … simply badly timed.
BUT, maybe that’s partly what’s wrong with today’s game … too many times tackles are badly timed as the tackler believes he has to stop the opponent at all costs. He doesn’t mean to injure, but it inevitably happens because of the nature of the tackle. Stan Lynn was always tough in his tackles, but I honestly can’t remember him launching himself at an opponent like that.
john l
not having it that the tackle is par for course,or player is not like that ,taylor has form for this ask lewis mcgugan kylewalker and dusan tadic ,as for match ireland ended up with colemans double fracture,o shea has ankled stitched up and might miss next 2 matches for sunderland, whelan resembled butcher of many moons ago and finally mc clean had bale foot in his mouth after bales tackle on o shea the ref was shocking, yes whelan clashed with allen but only reason it looked bad was allen is 5f 4 i
whelan about 6 foot
think in the same game someone ‘tackled’ taylor which was a far worse tackle!
mind you the art of defending is dead
Taylors previous was not that bad…saw the clips on twitter….hardly a dirty player!
Nothing on the old school of pearce, keano, etc!
when was our last hard man anyhow? mellberg? always like to have 1 player who puts it about.
we could do with one now? jedi the only one?
andrew
difference in a hardman and a coward
JL- I think the turning point in health was the vilification of saturated fat and cholesterol and the promotion of carbohydrates by companys/corporations. Pushing seed oil that oxidises easily to cook with was massive too, Margarine instead of butter etc. All backed by science paid for by the companys with vested interests. I would go as far as to say there is very little honest science in the medical side of things these days, data is fixed or slanted and the only companies with enough money to do a proper double blind study are the ones selling the crap. On the Job clinical observation is ignored too and proclaimed quackery by companies selling quackery. One day we will look back in shock at what we believed and allowed to happen.
Mark
I think the main problem with our health is us ourselves. Many of us seem to have an inbuilt self destruct button. We know what’s good for us. I remember learning about heart disease, smoking, healthy eating habits etc at school in the 1970s, so the education was there, but many don’t listen much of the time. There are both genetic and environmental reasons for this, as you know.
I was born with bicuspid valve disease, and required surgery. While at cardiac rehab, the husband of one of the rehab participants argued to our group smokers shouldn’t get free health care unless they give up. I don’t smoke, but disagreed. I later found out he used to be a chain smoker and had quit. His assertion was he’d quit smoking, so everybody else can. You know, if were only that simple. Our minds are sometimes too complex for our own good.
I hope a sugar tax is implemented and the money is used to subsidise vegetables and whole foods.
Iana- just watched a documentary on coca cola and how much they are involved with paying the scientists and experts investigating sugar in drinks and obesity, honestly its such a fix.
The problem is in sugar we are dealing with a substance that is more addictive than cocaine. shove it in your foods you have winner. Most kids don’t know that chips are made from potatoes let alone eat veg, I know one young lad that basically eats fries and chicken nuggets, he has anger issues and other problems go figure his brain is made of rubbish fats, he was also addicted to sweets. I think the days of eat your dinner or you’ll go to bed are over, parents tend buy what they will eat from what I have seen and although the info is out there it changes by the year and is generally scoffed at anyhow, been called a health freak enough times trust me 😉
Until they get brutal and ban the crap it wont change, with advertising its like pavlovs dog experiment on the tele.
Mark,
As you probably know, alcohol is officially forbidden in Islam, but decades ago I was transfixed by watching them drinking copious amounts of Cola instead!! I knew then it was a harmful drink, but no-one queried it.
There will be various opinions stated about Taylor’s tackle depending on your nationality or the team you support or various other factors.
Whatever our allegiances we all know what happened really though.
Taylor made a horrible tackle and although there’s no way he would have wanted to break Coleman’s leg he wasn’t trying to avoid colliding with him either. We see that sort of tackle on a very regular basis but rarely with the same outcome. Taylor’s tackle was no better or worse than many others but on this occasion both he and Taylor were unlucky that the outcome was so serious.
Bale’s tackle was probabaly worse and Whelan’s forearm smash was probably the most calculatedly violent of the lot although being an arm rather than a leg less likely to cause serious injury.
Referees and fans tend to react to outcomes rather than actions. Taylor was sent off, Bale cautioned and Whelan got off scot free. All three deserved to be sent off but . . . . referees miss things, and . . . . far too often they referee outcomes not actions.
Interesting posting John. Interested to see if in your next instalment you see parallels between the past and our current position.
By the way, do you know the relationship between the ‘Aston Villa Amateurs’ and the club?
tbh, haven’t seen Taylor’s tackle yet…been neck deep in a ridiculous project at work now for a while.
Was it worse than what we’ve seen Hutton throw around? He goes in pretty hard, doesn’t seem to mind much how it ends up. Don’t think he’s a dirty player, per se, but he doesn’t screw around when he wants to send you flying.
Okay…watched it now. Just seems unfortunate. 50-50 ball, he goes in, not studs up toward Coleman, is high, comes over the ball, and Coleman’s leg follows right through.
I might see it differently if one of ours had been the victim, but it was so close to being a good, albeit hard, tackle. His foot is there where the ball is…He just comes in over and misses the ball.
Was he high on purpose? I can’t say. Only he would know. But if so, he’d have stood as much chance breaking his own leg. If anything, it was the momentum he carried into the challenge that caused the break. And the momentum of Coleman following through on the ball.
“Horror” result, but hardly the most horrible challenge I’ve even seen this season.
To be fair, I see so many more violent collisions in American football resulting in all sorts of terrible injuries that maybe I’m a bit desensitized.
Or as r0bb0 aptly put it:
“We see that sort of tackle on a very regular basis but rarely with the same outcome. Taylor’s tackle was no better or worse than many others but on this occasion both he and Taylor were unlucky that the outcome was so serious.”
JC
I also think it’s 50-50. Taylor will be feeling stink.
I fear for Coleman. That would have been excruciating and shocking. I hope he can recover. If he does, it’ll take 18 months- two years.
Mark
One of the worse sugar culprits is (most) fruit juice, which my dentist said shouldn’t be marketed as a health product.
Interesting reading comments about sugar, margarine and how we were basically forced to try it. Before I emigrated , I think I have told before I was working on the milk for B’ham Dairies. I had a customer in Hamstead / Great Barr area who had a four year old lad that was pure evil, he would bite his sisters and Mom, hit his dad and swear like a trooper. They became one of my best customers as they were buying everything from me that was absolutely additive free and yet there was very little improvement. In desperation when he was five and couldn’t go to school as he would bite the other kids, the doctor said just take the little sod off all meat products. Instant change, he was normal almost over night. After months of studies, they found that the hormones, steroids and crap we put into the feed of live stock so they are nice and lean was causing him to have really wicked reactions. He did eventually get to eat meat but it had to be all natural no additives of any kind. Do not get fooled either, Organic Meat is not the same as all natural. A sick cow can be given antibiotics and still have its meat sold later as organic, as long as no pesticides have been used on its food and no hormones or steroids have been used. Mind I’m not saying Organic is not better than regular meat, that goes without saying I hope. Anyway, I hope he grew up to be a normal chap and not a serial killer or some thing due to the effects of crap put into his system by no fault of his parents.
jesus, im going to go home and clear out my fridge!
Iana- yes mate fruit juice is pure fructose, the stuff they chuck into packaged foods from sweetcorn. In some ways its worse than sucrose and white bread effects insulin even more.
JL- If they had tried the original coca-cola with full fat cocaine in they would of drank even more 😉
Canada, organic these days is a must in most foods for health, home grown is best of course. The situation with cows is more about them being mostly Grass fed, when they are fed grain to fatten up the Omega 3 to omega 6 ratio change in the meat along with many nutrients. Who can forget the time they fed chicken to the cows in the uk and got mad cows.
Andrew- explains why you like bruce so much 😉
hears a bit of cow related shenanigans
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/03/28/grazing-cows-can-rejuvenate-a-farm.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art2&utm_campaign=20170328Z2&et_cid=DM140023&et_rid=1944706656
lana,
‘if it were only that simple’ says it all concerning any fragmented non holistic approach, as a holistic approach[which includes education by definition] is much cheaper in financial terms & in lives, as it includes self knowledge & helping oneself with intelligence, with a much happier & connected population.
I am an optimist in that I don’t see only the dark side[which is also there & a significant obstacle].
JL
I think you are severely under-estimating the damage caused by deliberate initial idealogical or aquisitional policies of greed, & then finding the best managerial approach to obtain this, which has the managerial class in the net, & almost always fails due to greed being the classic short term motivation, & almost always uses [& abuses] the rest of us.
Inbuilt in this is a lack of education [a deliberate control mechanism which denigrates self education] for the lower groups in society, & a warped education for the groups who actually are hired to run the scams.
Many of these people are in other ways reasonable & humane human beings, it’s just a pity that confusion reigns, as it has deadly implications.
Taylor’s tackle was a bit rash & late, the kind we see relatively often, but not a deliberate attempt to break a leg.
On another day it would not have resulted in an unfortunate serious injury.
The hype that went with it was even more over the top as far as I am concerned, both before & after the match.
JG
It takes two to tango, & I’m not welsh.
The management of Ireland seems to have started the game before kick off, resulting in a full on war, as from experience players of any sport will respond, & then all hell breaks loose as they are all psyched up.
I think it is a bit jingoistic to carry the same pattern on afterwards, & my mother was a higgins & my grandmother an o’neil.
Mark,
I’d love to have time now to discuss the merits or otherwise of organic with you but sadly I’m off to a business dinner (coincidentally at an organic restaurant)
I garden organically but don’t believe it is currently practical to feed the world organically.
The benefits are also not always clearcut. Nutritionally the evidence is unclear. Environmentally it’s easier to justify and from a taste perspective, evidence is ambiguous at best.
Hopefully discuss some other time!
IanG: “I think you are severely under-estimating the damage caused by deliberate initial idealogical or aquisitional policies of greed, & then finding the best managerial approach to obtain this, which has the managerial class in the net, …”
Well, I do not believe I am Ian. I think we’re talking a similar situation but somehow finding different phraseology and angles to describe it! 😉
Although I don’t think there was initially (immediately post-war) any policy towards creating a mentality of ‘greed’ … that was, I think, what developed: MacMillan and “We’ve never had it so good”.
MK
‘hears a bit of cow related shenanigans’
Very good article & spot on.
I use goat’s milk myself, as cow’s milk always seems more fatty & affects my chest, & it makes me moo a lot as well.
My daughter & one of my sons were brought up on a 150 acre commune, where they followed the same kind of procedure & more, with a small amount of cattle & sheep.
They also grew a small amount of wheat & oats & had a large walled in vegetable garden.
All very labour intensive but they are disgustingly healthy & nag me a lot.
There seems very little that you can either buy or afford to buy that is not full of life threatening crap.
That goes for most fish as well as most meat & much grain & vegetables.
Then there is the idea of balance without extremes.
There was a time in the 60’s where there was a reaction to the hygiene brigade, where many considered that too much purity was bad for you, & a little was necessary in a kind of homeopathic way.
I’ve never taken the skin off any well sourced [preferably organic] vegetables since then, just clean them & cook them whole in their skins a lot of the time.
Yummy..
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Management And Coaching At Aston Villa. Part Four now up.
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Read the article on grass fed cattle, thanks Mark good reading. However, for us on the north side of the 49th our cattle and other sources of meat, our Lamb is starting to get to a decent quality, have to be supplemented during the winter, simple as. Now my old boss had a hobby farm and raised beautiful beef organically, he grows his own Soy, Corn and hay for the winter months. I believe they are a Hereford / Angus cross but really good beef. Even our dairy industry has to follow similar patterns to be certified organic, but alas we cant raise year round grass fed as nice as that sounds. My old boss is also self sufficient energy wise using solar panels and a small wind turbine to power his farm including heat for the barns during the winter months. It’s the end of March now and our grass is still brown and not started growing yet and we had a really mild winter. I think it would be terrific if we could all farm naturally but the population would need massive reductions world wide before self sustaining farming could feed the whole world. Not that those of us fortunate enough to be able to afford to eat better shouldn’t, I do and don’t have any feelings of guilt.. Any how, how else would I get my greens, the cow eats the greens I eat the cow, I get my greens. I don’t have such validation for a bacon sandwich though LOL.
JL
By the way thanks for the article as it brings back a lot of memories.
I take it there is another chapter to come?
That is fair comment, it’s just that there is a fragmented non holistic approach within most management nowadays except for the ethical businesses which have proved that an engaged & looked after worker is a happy & much more productive worker as he has a stake in what he does.
Not the Japanese model of course.
JL
-or UK plc, or global hot trotters corporation etc
IanG,
Yes, Part 4 is now up . Just now. 😉