All is quiet. The Villa blogs wait, pensively, to see what happens next. After the installation of a new regime, the curtains have been temporarily drawn shut and the drums have not quite started to roll to reveal the latest chapter in the history of Aston Villa FC.

There is possibly a state of disbelief; that Mr. Randolph Lerner has finally vacated the chair that he hardly ever sat in at Villa Park. A sense of amazement that he has retreated from the scene having actually sold the club for less than the amount he paid. Apart from the add-on he might get if Villa quickly return to the Premiership.

Perhaps we should even thank Mr. Lerner, for without him coming and then leaving after 10 years in which the club has been reduced from the peak of expectancy to its lowest ebb for many years, we would not have come to back to our senses. In my view, we are now approximately at the point we were at in 1969: a huge relief that the old has gone and, at the same time, a re-newed sense of optimism at the opportunities in front of us. The gnashing of teeth that was hugely prevalent in the early 2000s at Doug’s intransigence to lift the club to a renewal of former European glories, and the subsequent smugness when Mr. Lerner took over, has evaporated. We are back to a more realistic square one and a new age.

Dr. Xia (‘Tonix’ as I like to call him) has already appealed to the supporters to lay bare his general ideas for the club. His communication was liked, but we were then sceptical as to whether his apparent takeover was a sham; me included. Many feared that he did not have the real wherewithal to get through examination by the leagues, and I feared that the takeover was really a front for Chinese government subterfuge. Perhaps I read too much Ian Fleming as a teenager.

So, as the Euros grind out their statutory performances over the next couple of weeks, our new manager will have been working behind the scenes to formulate a plan of player transfers – both in and out.

By the end of June, I hope that the curtains will be re-opened with panache. We might not get a Lamborghini, but so long as its a reconstructed and well-upholstered second-hand Rolls I’ll be happy.

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John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.

Comments 499

  2. Trinity

    John
    Thanks for writing a most appropriateleader for us.
    I’m sure everybody can’t wait to see the dismantling of the old and the rebuild of the new squad. It seems Villa have a proactive owner. It should make for exciting times.

    Runtings
    China? That sounds like an awesome idea. Send Gabby, Lescott and Richards there

  3. steamer

    Concur with everything.
    The complete clear out that everyone wanted last season actually seems to be happening, virtually all of the non-playing staff at admin level seem to be leaving and their is a turnover of coaches too, don’t stop there Tone, get rid of the players too. Hopefully some of the match day staff and others will get their jobs back as attendances improve with results.
    What i like about Tone is his insistence on respect, it makes a nice change.
    Dunno about the Swede, he’s nearly 26 now, although at 1m or so its not much of a gamble. McCormack is 29 and 15m IS a gamble on a bloke who’s never done anything at EPL level.
    I think the lad at Walsall looks like a goalscorer, give him a go, nothing ventured and if he flops we could get our money back.

  4. runtings

    thanks again JL
    it’s a new dawn for the club – I would like to thank Mr Steve Hollis for the great work he has done at the club in such a short time and i think we may have a heck of a lot to be grateful to hime for so big up Steve

  7. Canadian Villan

    Yes, looking forward to a new era lived through many. From my first visit to Villa Park m and my neighbor Geoff, we sneaked in during a training session and got a wave from Charlie Aiken and Willie Anderson, that was it hooked from about 8 years old. Just watched Hungry score so I’ll leave it for now and watch the last 20 mins. Thanks John and Matt for helping me register from over the pond here in Canada. Once i see this posted i will post more regularly as i am from Steamers era me thinks, as i remember a lot of the games you fellas talk about.

  11. Ian

    Hello Canadian Villan. I’m wondering if we are neighbours. Wouldn’t that be a laugh. I’m in Magna Bay BC. Where do you hang your hat?
    You’ll like it on this site. When Villa are firing on all cylinders the banter is funny and cheerful. I’m still waiting for the more cheerful part. The guys are football smart and you can pick up all sorts of info to fill out what you read in the news. They’re funny too. Have fun. Looking forward to reading your posts.
    I take it you’re an old fart like a good bunch of us.

  12. proxopera

    “and I feared that the takeover was really a front for Chinese government subterfuge. Perhaps I read too much Ian Fleming as a teenager.”………You think ,John ??
    In fairness your commentary has evened out a bit since the early exchanges about eating dogs and sino-meglamania. Things appear to be looking up so I think all villans are entitled to indulge a little hope.
    Looks like Rupert Murdoch has got behind the Brexit push , now THERE is someone to be paranoid about,

    Welcome aboard Canada.

    Hey Gibbo , keeping well I hope?

  13. steamer

    That fat, bluenose toerag got a result didn’t he, a five year ban from the sty, he must have been delighted, may even find the time to get a job.

  15. Ian

    Hey Proxopera
    Keeping fine. You?
    I was quite down in the mouth regarding Villa and couldn’t watch the destruction going on. I’m more optimistic now. A manager I like and I hope he is left alone and given a half decent stake to work with. With a bit of luck I’ll post more in the new season.
    Did you follow much hockey? Or just re-runs of slap shot?

  16. John Lerwill

    Prox,

    Let’s face it, after the events of the last 10 (even 15) years I would have thought we’d all got paranoid! 😉 … Obviously you’re the exception!

    I’m not yet totally convinced, but Tonix has said and indicated enough so far for me to willingly give him a chance.

  17. steamer

    One of the main things that Tone has to do is to change the clubs image, over the last five years players, fans and the media look at Villa and see a run down shambles always fighting relegation, the appointments of the high profile management team should be just the start of a major makeover. If RdM can persuade one or two high profile players to sign then the world of football may sit up and take notice as when Big Ron was the boss.
    Hope Tone gets a sponsor for the Witton Lane stand, anyone will do just get that parasites name off it.

  18. Mark King

    Apparently Tony Xia has sent a round robin to the staff asking them to be respectful to each other and all at the club, hope that doesn’t extend to the new water park at small heath

  19. southwestvillan

    Just read the comments from RDM on the OS and it seems he has been trawling through his old CDs of Yazz and Ken Dodd heres a tip Roberto forget the music and get us promoted.

    Canadian Villan,

    Welcome to the asylum just wait till ST75 shows his ugly mush, Ian is correct this is a very funny site and I am probably the funniest on here by a street although Steamer does have a witty moment now and again and ST75 is about as funny has a naked juggler at Jimmy Savilles 10th birthday party.

    Good luck to Tony our Randy has left a hell of a mess to clear up so it is going to take some time to turn this wreck around.

    SWV

  25. Trinity

    Mark
    Awesome what he has to say. Good to see RDM has the final say on all transfers. Dr.X is doing his best to raise morale. I also hope many of those who lost their jobs will be needed again. That would be a sign of success and returning health.

  26. John Lerwill

    Trin,

    I heard this week that the most current holder of the archivist’s seat is leaving at the end of this week.

    So what the future is for the maintenance of that part of the club seems to have been left in abeyance – for now perhaps.

  28. steamer

    JL,
    Thats a strange one, its low profile and difficult to assess, seems like a clean sweep, would you be interested now the revisionists have left ? Never mind the club we could get our history back.

  29. Heroes-and-Villans

    jesus i nearly wept with joy reading that article…trying my damdest to keep an even keel, but getting excited. Actions speak louder than words though so showng restraint.

    Elphick to sign before end of week. That could be our best signing this season. A proper leader and 100% commited player.

    Bournemouth fans on twitter are devatsted.

  30. Heroes-and-Villans

    di matteo, clarke, bond, wyness, samuelson. Villa appointing actual football people at the club shocker!

    Read nothing but good things on Wyness….knows his role inside out. Same for samuelson but is getting bad press for his time at reading….whateves the guy knows his job and has great contacts.

  31. runtings

    i heard the sty got flooded – that’s a shame

    here we go Elphick bid excepted – it’s going to get more interesting once the players are back and assessed by rdm
    my only hope is we don’t see the likes of gabby , lescott and Richards in a Villa shirt again – these lads with hopefully further there careers elsewhere

  32. steamer

    When we’re the biggest club in the world AGAIN, the vermin will still be chirping about being the big club in Brum, the only thing big about them is their imagination. They need to have a wash and find their place in the scheme of things, somewhere at the bottom of the ladder.
    Don’t usually want Engurland to win at anything but most/all of the taffs i’ve met are knobs, in particular i don’t like ingrates like Bale who’s earned millions in this country and yet slates it at every opportunity, plus he’s got a face like a chimp. 3-0 to Engurland, Bales chat should make even Sterling put a shift in.

  34. steamer

    IMO the Euro’s have been dul, defensivel and dire, the Copa America by contrast has seen some superb footy and loads of great goals, Mexico’s second last night was superb. The way the games going in Europe there will be one major premier league and very little beneath them, who’d have thought that Serie A would have declined this much a few years ago ?

  35. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    I’d not ingratiate myself to get re-installed, and in any case my previous boss is still there and he’d be a lot embarrassed if I were to return methinks. He didn’t exactly lose any blood to keep me, though I don’t blame him wanting to keep his job.

  36. runtings

    I have spent a fair amount of time visiting friends in Wales , Scotland and Ireland – republic of
    I must say all are fiercely patriotic , the scots and welsh don’t have much good to say about England in my experience , but the Irish seem too busy enjoying life to discuss such matters
    History creates bitterness even between cousins , I must say the Irish fans have been brilliant at the euros – so much funny moments floating about online from them —- top class

  37. steamer

    Runtingz,
    The Irish are great, they know how to enjoy a night out and having a laugh. Think Jack dropped a goolie when he chose Engurland, still think he’ll play but he’ll have to sign for Spurs before he does.

  39. steamer

    Good job we’ve got the vermin to keep us entertained in the close season, one of the mugs bought the new shirt and it had the badge upside down. Last year the clubs name was spelled incorrectly, just how can you spell shite wrong. The new shirts are slimline so lord knows just how they’re going to look on those fat bellied, chip eating toerags.

  40. steamer

    With each passing day i’m more confident that AVFC is in good hands. the management is top class and judging by the comments of Mr Wyness, he’s going to sort out our admin and also mend bridges with the fans that Fox burned. Can’t think of anything that Tones done wrong.

  41. Mark King

    Totally in agreement Steamer, we look professional for once and to me he comes over as ambitious not just giving sound-bites out for the effect

  42. steamer

    Although cheating is endemic in every facet of Russian society, and sport in particular, i just don’t see FIFA taking the WC away from them, Russia has spent billions building new stadia and infrastructure and, although they deserve to be stripped of the tournament i don’t see FIFA having the goolies to do it. Virtually every sport is tainted by either drugs or bribes, there has to be a deterrent , life bans and huge fines haven’t even been tried yet, just a slap on the wrist. Marc Bennetts who wrote Football Dynamo is an Englishman who lives in Moscow, i his book he stated the virtually every club was tainted by bribery.
    Bennetts also investigates the hooligan problem , he implies that the Nashi, a political youth organisation which is fanatically pro – Kremlin has definite links with the gangs. The Nashi are virtually a para-military organisation that breaks up strike and demonstrations using extreme violence, sound familiar ? The Russians have an inbred dislike/hatred for Britain due to Churchill’s scheming to manipulate Germany to invade the Soviet Union in 1940 and the USA similarly in 1945, this raving, imperialist nutjob would have seen the Europe and indeed, the World destroyed in a nuclear holocaust, for once the British population had the sense to vote him out in 1945 before he achieved his aims.
    Football Dynamo is a very decent read but some of the things surrounding football over there are frightening, CSKA versus Spartak makes WHU versus Millwall look like a tea party.

  44. runtings

    steamer i think the Russian old bill will be a little more firmer barring England fans -protection perhaps

    st75 was out there – how was that ? — are you off on another holiday st

    It may tack some getting use too supporting a well run villa – there hasn’t been too many good times in the last 10 years

  45. Canadian Villan

    Hi Ian,
    No alas, I’m in Ontario about an hours drive from the falls, 40 minutes if the missus drives. If you ever come over to see the falls, you’ll have to come up and crack a few beers and we’ll BBQ a couple of thick steaks. Pype Hayes was where i learned the most frustrating game on this green earth. Only game where the ball is a rest when you hit the damn thing and still the toughest. Though my last few years i played Hill Top twice a week and got my handicap down to about 18.
    There is a motel at Niagara Falls called the Aston Villa Motel, got a picture a few years ago of our kid standing under the sign with his Villa scarf on standing my Pontiac G6, plate number AVFC 2. If i can dig out one of the days I’ll post it, you can tell he’s still a Brit, ugly and cropped hair. You watch us have a good season though this year though as we wont be on Sportsnet or TSN. I think BeIn Sports carry some championship games though, if they don’t go under like GOL TV did. That latest CRTC ruling with the basic basic, and only pay for what you want has already seen us lose at least a dozen channels in Ontario, and there’s more going down the toilet in July. Anyway better get back to work, its lunch time here and what must be about 9am out on the west coast.

  47. steamer

    Stroll on, someone could have told me what time the game kicked off, still wouldn’t have watched it though. Good decision by Lino on the first Engurland goal.
    Has Hart lost the use of his legs ? the goalkeeping has been pathetic this tournament, both Engurland goals were codge ups.
    Whats that lump on Bales head ? he who laughs last etc.

  48. Mark King

    steamer- I’ll describe it for you, England constantly attacked 20 welsh blokes in their box until they got a free kick in our side of the centre circle. Bale then surprised the keeper who’d been off the pitch signing autographs for 40 minutes. woy then put on some proper forwards and Wales defence collapsed form the amount of bruises caused by constant England shots and we won, or something like that.

  53. steamer

    Just looked up the stats for E vs W game after reading Coleman saying that Wales didn’t deserve to lose, he must be joking, England massacred them on every stat, different game for some folk.

  54. John Lerwill

    Canada: “There is a motel at Niagara Falls called the Aston Villa Motel”

    I saw a photo at the Villa archives of what you describe. I wonder whether it was you that sent a print to the Villa!

  56. Frem

    Wasn’t sure on RDM but I like what he’s said.
    Really sound like we have good plans. Xia has said it, and Hollis him self to

    Hopefully now we will sack a load of players

  57. John Lerwill

    Departure of Hollis

    And departing words include…

    “It’s a bit of a grieving process now for [Lerner] also mixed in with happiness as he can see someone is taking the custodial role in this club.”

  60. Trinity

    Lerner was a very confused man.
    He appeared to despise the fan base so much, he refused to listen, and lost a lot of money and unlike a good custodian got the club relegated.

  61. Archie

    I suspect when Randy Learner reflects on his time as owner of Aston Villa FC , he’ll most likely think of the only two good days he had,… the day he bought the club …and the day he sold it

  63. John Lerwill

    Jo Cox

    What to say about her and this awful tragedy? I find it difficult to find the words, though in my blog I added:

    It is extraordinary that at Jo Cox’s home town of Birstall, Yorkshire, many flowers of tribute have been placed at an old memorial to Dr. Joseph Priestley, who was born in that place over 250 years ago. He became a famous scientist and philosopher, and, like Jo, was a great supporter of liberty. He was a friend of America’s founding fathers.

    Priestley was, of course, a resident of Brum for some years but was driven out. A greatly misunderstood man.

  64. steamer

    That event genuinely shocked me, to take the life of a young mother is inhuman whatever her politics, the world is getting out of hand, law and order is out of control.

    I see the Russian athletics team has been banned from the Olympics yet a British drugs cheat has been banned for FOUR months in the cycling events, what is the difference ? the bloke is a cheat ban him for life.

  65. Mark King

    JO Cox murder Yes a terrible tragedy. I can’t help feeling sad about the reaction of the leave politicians and the media branding it a political killing when there own rhetoric between the exit and stay camps has been nothing short of shameful. Full of misinformation, unfortunately one of the problems brushed aside by our government, the mentality ill on our streets, has taken it as gospel and acted on it.

  67. steamer

    Yes Mark, Camoron is the perfect example of a lying politician, the lies he’s told on this campaign are shameful, but what do you expect from a pal of scum Jeremy Clarkson, i’d love to banjo that piece of shite.
    Camoron will be out of no10 soon but look at the contenders, Gideon is an even bigger liar than his boss and Boris is a buffoon, looking good for Jezza at least he has integrity. We could do with Vlad taking British citizanship.

  69. Mark King

    Well I have just witnessed the best England Rugby I can remember. Better than the world cup win. A series win in Australia, Jones is an incredible coach wish we had had him for the world cup.

  70. steamer

    Well the Fronch und Jeermans are now predicting the break up of the EEC if we leave, so Brexit benefits most of the working classes around Europe, the leeches will have to make do with millions instead of billions.

    Get him in to replace Hodgson. I can’t believe he’s taking the credit for those two subs, everyone told him that Kane was crackered and Sterling is crepe but he persevered and it nearly cost us.
    The way sporting events are going i can see the end of all major tournaments and games, what with the cost, drugs, cheating and now serious violence it just isn’t worth it and that’s not taking into account the lack of talent. Why should the taxpayer fund West Hams title challenge ?

  71. Mark King

    How dare you insinuate that most of the world is crooked!! its all of it

    I have been having a good look at the arguments for and against and it comes down to if we stay in we will have less control eventually on an unelected hierarchy but short term stability. Long term who knows if it will even last, without us as a cash cow potentially not long. It all seems to be about money and not the good of the collective nations.

    For me it comes down to whether we want a say in our future, by that I mean the people of this country not the politicians. Forget freedom of movement or filling jobs what direction and type of life do we want? I hope this is a catalyst for many changes not more of the same, I mean that for all of Europe too. As the 5th largest economy in the world why are we so afraid of taking a chance?

  73. Mark King

    Read the other day that Around 40% of the money goes toward Farmer subsidies to keep them competing with cheaper sources from out side the EU?? Just happens that the majority of farm land or nearly all farmland is owned by the 0.1% the more acres you own the more you get. That allows them to plough the smaller farm holders under as they get very little.

  74. steamer

    Hope they replace Tom Ross with someone who knows about football.

    RdM making noises about giving the knobs who withdrew their labour last season ‘another chance’, thats about eight ‘another chances’ Saggy’s had, get rid Rubbertoe or you’ll be next.

  76. steamer

    Thought the first & third goals were amateurish, diving in on the half way line with no cover and the second one the keeper should have saved. Lets hope they can win against Italy but they’ll have a point to prove after New York.

  77. steamer

    Leader of the Birmingham council who looks a smarmy git –
    “We’re transforming our cities thanks to the EU – not in spite of it and that’s why I firmly believe a vote for Remain is a vote for prosperity and progress for Britain’s cities”.

    So your the one responsible, preferred Brum thirty years ago ta, now bugger off and ruin some other city.

  78. John Lerwill

    Steamer: “That’s capitalism for you crooks looking after other crooks.”

    Yes, but it’s the same system whether we’re in or out of the EU!

    Voting to exit will almost undoubtedly mean extra hardship for the less well off in my view – it will take some time for us to find our own feet as an independent nation again with the consequent detrimental affect on the poorest in the meantime.

    But it’s not just about the economy and migration, is it? It’s all about the inter-woven fabric of cooperation across Europe and if we leave I can see the whole of the EU breaking up. And the consequent mayhem.

    Mind you, it’s all expected to go belly-up by 2017 anyway.

  79. steamer

    According to the French and Jeermans, so lets get out first and establish new markets, they didn’t think twice about abandoning the old markets when we joined.

  80. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    The bit about “an unelected hierarchy” is not really true is it? We vote in the MEPs and they, in turn, act as some kind of electoral college to select the Commission. So it’s at least partial democracy and, in my view, a better system than the House of Lords! 😉

  81. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    There are negatives whichever way we go … but my vote goes to the one that will safeguard the interests of the poorest most. And that means staying in.

    The other way has its attractions but it’s a big step into the great unknown, and I just don’t think we’re equipped for it.

  82. John Lerwill

    Actually, it’s interesting that a big majority of the under-35s want to stay in!

    Now, since it’s their future I’d suggest that the nation ought to go with what they think on this one.

  83. Mark King

    JL- I could not tell you who our people in Europe are, and I certainly don’t want them voting on my behalf. I see it a bit to like FIFA for my liking, agree on the house of lords though.

    As for the under 35’s lower house prices would surely help them, this ridiculous rush to build millions of houses to keep the economy expanding is mad how long can that go on?

    Unless the EU reforms it will sink there are more countries than us that are disgruntled, I would like a true co-op between the countries of Europe but I fear our views are too diverse for it to work in this format. I like Spain to be Spain and France to be France, I don’t want a vanilla world.

  85. Trinity

    I hope Ciaran Clarke doesn’t take Liam Brady’s comment that “He isn’t good enough for this level ” to heart. That Belgium attack isn’t too bad. It does look, though that Villa has had a bad influence on the lad’s confidence.
    Good onEngland in the rugby-firtst series win in Australia. Wales played well in Wellington.

  86. steamer

    Yes Trin, apparently that’s his first lapse in ages, according to the Irish lads on here he’s been playing well. Possibly Brady was judging him on Villa form.

  87. John Lerwill

    Mark: “Unless the EU reforms it will sink there are more countries than us that are disgruntled”

    Agreed on that. I certainly said there are negative reasons for staying in, and one of them would be if the EU doesn’t reform.

    But I see it better to be part of that process and not be outside.

    On “I could not tell you who our people in Europe are” then we should be blaming ourselves for not knowing, surely? 😉 If we detach ourselves from what’s going on in the EU then we can’t really complain about what happens to us!

    Under 35s? Well, they have been selectively polled and they simply want to stay in Europe. That’s their future as they see it.

  88. James Gill

    Steamer
    Most people I know only listen to the three grumpy men ( Brady dunphy and Giles ) to laugh at their ancient ideas
    Watched clark in the autumn matches he was first class because he was main centre half like at Villa when partnered with Richards lescott he bag of nerves yet with okore main man
    Finally looking forward to new season and please God a complete read out off garbage that played last year no more chances for flabby

  89. Trinity

    I’ve got a feeling Gabby and co will get another chance. Gabby and others need to atone. I’d prefer they did that that by leaving. We’ll soon see.

  91. Mark King

    Steamer- 🙂

    JL- Doesn’t seem to be presented as important above our own politics does it? all we seem to hear about is Cameron trying to get concessions (and failing)and not much else unless you really spend your life digging.

    I’ve no problem with how people vote just would like an impartial view or plane truth as its known to make a choice. I’m betting some will be thinking there holidays will cost more and they won’t be able to travel easily, that type of view is what annoys me and is no reason to vote either way.

    The truth is nobody really knows either way only that its being presented to suit 2 arguments. Out has been riddled with fear of immigrants and in with the threat we would collapse in the short term or remain the same in the short term, neither are the full story or particularly truthful.

    As for being in it if it collapses? Judging on how difficult it is getting anything done while in it whats the difference?

    Also if your voting because the Under 35’s want in consider this, most of that generation don’t turn out to vote historically compared to the older generations who do want out. That suggests the younger generation neither know much about it or care much about politics

    we will see Thursday I expect, its going to be interesting

  92. steamer

    Corbyn confuses refugees with economic migrants, the fact is Jezza we can’t keep the door open for everybody, read a letter yesterday from an ex-squadie who was stationed in Dortmund who said that 80% of Turkish immigrants were on benefits and the police were barred from entering their housing areas, a bit like Alum Rock here, surely this defeats any argument for uncontrolled immigration. Get in the real world Labour Party, its great being everything to everyone when you live in a big house in Islington think of the folk who can’t afford that privilege. By the way while i’m in the mood, abolish the monarchy and bring back capital punishment.

  93. steamer

    100% behind Corbyn until now, afraid he’s lost my vote and probably millions more. I can see the Labour Party folding, merging or splitting in the next ten years, in truth its always been crap, it never represented the working classes, stopped at the middle echelons that controlled it. Ramsay McDonald FFS ! how did he become leader ?

  96. Mark King

    Looks like Elphick is having a medical.

    It blows the mind that the EU referendum has come about because the Tories thought it might get them elected in the face of Ukips rise. If coming out is so bad why did they gamble the countries future for their own gain? Is that any reason to have a Referendum? change your beliefs to garner favour, just tells me what a bunch of idiots we have as leaders. Apparently Cameron only made his decision to stay after he had negotiated a new deal with the EU, in which he basically got naff all, bit of a porky there Mr Cameron?

    What really does my head in though is the its now or never line we are given, Why is that? who exactly is in charge here? maybe The EU should poll the whole of its members? that would be interesting

  100. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    We’re stuck with the referendum, aren’t we? I suppose to get rid of the UKIP element, Cameron had no choice, but I’m not trying to justify it on his behalf.

    What’s the difference? Unity is what the difference is Mark … standing shoulder to shoulder. That’s what the EU is supposed to be about. Agreed it’s not been as good as experience as it should have been, but I prefer the staying in to leaving if only for the poor who will definitely have a harder time if we leave, for a few years at least. There’ll be too much smog that the politicians will blame for all manner of things in the interim – we’ll have more difficulty in holding them accountable.

    Steamer,

    We’re in trouble with the migrant issue whichever way we go, despite what the two sides say.

  102. steamer

    Andrew,
    To be honest most of the names linked with Villa Lamebert wouldn’t sign, i accept we’re Championship now but most of them are sheer crepe.

  103. Mark King

    morning JL- Yes your right it is about Unity, perceived or not. Unfortunately it has become about money and mishandling a common theme in governance. I have not seen one forecast that says that there is an end goal in sight that I look forward to or something real to aspire to. The EU should be in the forefront leading the people of Europe on to better things but it appears to be about control. Not only over what we can do in Europe but in the outside world. It would take blind man not to see the massive changes that are happening world wide in economies and the world is not the same as it was when the EU was formed so why are they reluctant to reform? Can anyone see a war in Europe happening? I cannot but the papers are printing that peace is at stake??

    As for Cameron having no choice, there is such a thing as the will of the people for good or bad, at worst we would of had another coalition, does that not say a lot of what they think about Unity?

  106. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    I accept what you say … but without the UK in the EU it will flounder without doubt.

    You may then say then that’s a good reason for leaving, but the trouble is that direction is all about unknowns. And as long as the poor will get the backlash of it all – especially if the venture goes belly-up – I see no point in leaving but instead strive to make the EU a better institution. That may mean having a far greater interest on everyone’s part in making sure it says on the label.

  108. Mark King

    JL- yes the unknown, People never like making Fear based decisions do they. The biggest Unknown is what will happen? a responsible government could of at least secured a part agreement to present for us to decide. Instead we are made to feel we are staring into the abyss.

    Another round of polls have the conservatives voting in and labour wanting out as they lost more to Ukip and lost the entire of Scotland. Its really sad that tactical voting to garner votes is so prevalent when this is presented as a pivotal moment in our history, the people voted in by us look after their party first.

    It would be very revealing if there was a questionnaire/poll of all the EU to see what the people want to see as our future, won’t happen.

  109. Mark King

    Looks like Xia’s lack of money was unfounded apparently he is negotiating to buy other clubs now.

    Clubs in India, the USA, Australia and China are thought to have been identified as potential franchises as Xia looks to replicate the success of Manchester City.

    Several franchises operate under the City Football Group banner including New York City in the MLS and Melbourne City in Australia’s A-League. Wyness said: “It’s similar. The idea is to have a comprehensive pool of talent and abilities to take players up through different stages of club experience.

    “Depending on their age, development, talent. Give yourself that opportunity to monitor the talent very closely wherever they are.

    “It won’t be announced this week but we’re in active discussions that’s all I can say. Every club has different factors but we have identified a number and we are in discussions.”

    Xia hopes to make Villa the most popular club in China and Wyness, whose appointment is expected to be approved by the Football League later this week, wants to make the most of their marketing potential in the Far East.

    He said: “We’ve got an opportunity to be the best in the business.”

  110. Heroes-and-Villans

    Im not greatly excited by buying other footy teams….prob just a way for them to earn more money for themselves! What real benefit does it give us?

    Pantomine prob a non starter thank god, wants too much money 🙂

  112. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    It seems to me that people are now trending to the Leave route in disbelief at what Chameleon is saying. His previous record as PM gives the lesser well-off no room to trust him, so no matter how much sense he now makes on the EU (to me at least) he doesn’t get through to the workers.

    Chamelon himself says that we may well be OK outside the EU but stresses that working within the EU is – in his view – a more positive way forward.

    I honestly feel that the workers are going to regret their line of thinking, especially as the u-35s fear that EU protectionism towards the workers will be dismantled by a let-loose Tory party. And I think that is a real danger.

  113. John Lerwill

    Mark: “It would be very revealing if there was a questionnaire/poll of all the EU to see what the people want to see as our future, won’t happen.”

    Good point, but I still think the proper measure is to take the pulse of the u-35s. But that won’t happen either.

  114. Mark King

    JL- a lot of the U35’s in Europe are unemployed particularly the 18-25’s why exactly is that? and how will it ever improve without massive job creation or a mass die off of older working folk? lots of them cannot afford to retire fully nor want to, its a conundrum.

    The under 35’s in this country appear more bothered about what Kim Kardashain has said than a politician. A little more truth about where the union might be in 5-10 years judging on its present state would be helpful for all age groups. As you can tell I’m angry about the way its been handled Vs the final result which is wrong too 🙂

    The likelihood is an emotional decision will be made by many for the wrong reasons IMO.

  115. Mark King

    JL- I must admit that in my mind if an ever expanding economy and population is seen as the only way to have good life the human race and the rest of the life we share this world with have had it.

  116. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    The u-35s: Sorry, I don’t agree with your view on u-35s. It’s interesting that a survey has shown that of voters with no qualification higher than GCSE, 57% wish to Leave. The inference is that such lower-qualified people tend to go for old ways of thinking. On the other hand, today’s younger generation tend to be much better qualified, forward-looking and see the EU as the *foundation* for a productive future (see the ‘i’ newspaper of this morning for a statement of voters’ views).

    On your second post, I agree. But it’s not going to happen like that. Don’t ask me how I know but there will be big changes over the next 20 years and out of that will evolve a world that will look nothing like that we see right now. Mind you, the chance sof my being here to say that happen are slight! 😉

  118. DarrenO

    Hi all

    Back after a bout of illness that caught me by surprise, but managed to get better in time for my trip to the Sweden game, the atmosphere was fantastic and you haven’t seen half of the fun, shame we’ll struggle to get out of the group as the Irish fans deserve a long tournament.

    Completely shocked by the Jo Cox murder here too, words can’t describe the depths humans can reach in justifying the taking of a life in their own mind. But equally the US still allow mass murders to take place with their lax gun laws

    On the Villa, I’m holding out until we declare the 2016/17 squad absolutely want to see more of the players that got us relegated gone and see who RDM believes will get us back but very positive about the new ownership and the plans for the club

  119. steamer

    Up town yesterday, some funny looking folk around so i said to one of the “hey mate, who’s the vermin playing” he gave me a strange look and threw a blood stained leg at me, “oi oi no need for that pal” then i realised, it was the zombie walk, not my fault the scummers look like the undead is it ?

  122. John Lerwill

    DO’R,

    Can’t help thinking that Jo’s assassin’s comment of “Britain First” too much equates with Trump’s “America First” … the mood of the let’s look after ourselves first campaigns on both sides of the Pond is certainly going to influence those of lower motives.

  123. Mark King

    JL- I might of overdid the attitude of todays youngsters for sure there are some bright sparks but I was just highlighting that your voting for a bunch that historically don’t bother to vote for themselves. This is from the Guardian.

    “Government strategists and pollsters privately admit that the central problem for the Remain side is that its support for staying in the EU is strongest among young people, the group least likely to vote. Opinium found that in the 18-34 age group, 53% said they backed staying in, against 29% who wanted to leave. But only just over half (52%) in this age group said they were certain to actually go out and vote.”

  124. Mark King

    JL- Its also quite predictable that there has been a swing to remain after Jo Coxs death, another knee jerk reaction to an appalling tragedy.

  125. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    So we could be asking questions about the nature of Jo’s assassination.

    I won’t say more than that – the family’s grief is in some ways more important.

  126. Mark King

    JL- yes I hate to go down that rabbit hole but we have seen it before haven’t we? I truly hope it isn’t. Their grief should be all thats important but somehow the politicians missed that.

  130. Canadian Villan

    Nice signing me thinks at that price. Looks like the Welsh are job done and its only half time. Can some one please explain to me how Croatia and others are getting fines over flares and fireworks being thrown onto the pitch, because from over here with what already went on in Paris and Brussels, how the hell are they getting them in the grounds. Am i missing something, if they can those in then they could be getting ANY EXPLOSIVES in could they not????

  133. John Lerwill

    Clive,

    Well, there we are … Dougan has done a better job in that talk than any of the politicians put together, i.m.o.

    What is alarming is that he put cold water on the notion of a 2 year EU exit deal (which Brexit are promoting) and was talking more in terms of around 10 years to bargain our way out … which leaves an awfully big interim situation with unknown affect on our economy.

    Another video that supports Dougan is one from an academic at Oxford, Prof. Paul Collier:

    https://www.facebook.com/StrongerInCampaign/videos/vb.1014500498590274/1171067726266883/?type=2&theater

    So, having listened to 2 such brains, it’s really a no-brainer, surely! 🙂

  134. Clive Evans

    Agreed John – what he does do, what all the others on either side have not done, is to spell out logically and legally the outcome if we leave. Never mind Project Fear and all the promises made by each side – this is reality

  135. Mark King

    Clive/JL This is a clear reason not to listen to career politicians on anything full stop, surely a system where are brightest minds are used would be better. I didn’t catch to many references to what the plus points of out might be, I suspect he does not see many.

    One thing that makes me wonder and thats why do we get immigrants in to do jobs the long term unemployed could do? I suspect its something like there expenditure is greater than several earners in one house can generate as they are living one family to a house and the wage is to low.

  136. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    You’re of course right about politicians – or most of ’em at least.

    Listening to those two professors makes me think that the entire nation would have benefited listening to a debate between 2 professors on each side of the fence – for them to argue the *facts* as they saw them.

  137. Trinity

    Brits sure have a massive decision to make in a couple of days. Can Brits around the world vote or is it limited to Brits living in the UK?
    As for immigration, I agree with the Dalai Llama.

  139. runtings

    if you look at the leaders of the out team i.e boris and Nigel and compare that to the leaders of labour , conservatives , greens , banker , major employees ect — i think i know who’s advise to follow re brexit

  140. Clive Evans

    Trinity – Brits around the world can vote but only if they have been non-resident for less than 15 years; the Cons declared they would remove this restriction to enable votes for life in their manifesto but refused to do this in time for the referendum. So ex-pats who have lived in the EU for more than 15 years and will be affected by the outcome are denied the vote. Strange behaviour from a remain favouring Government when all these people are likely to want to stay in

  141. steamer

    Talking of no brainers, Beckham feels he’s qualified to lecture the nation – “facing the problems of the world together and not alone” is one of the more memorable quotes, anyone influenced by this moron is equally lacking in basic intelligence.

  143. steamer

    Runtingz,
    Self interest mate, these are the people who benefit, the working classes will fall further behind, when Corbyn moves to Alum Rock for a couple of years then he’s qualified to talk about the effects of immigration without using the undercurrent of racism.
    My nephew runs the entire worldwide investment banking side for a major bank, to my eternal shame he votes Tory, but he’s voting Brexit.

  145. Heroes-and-Villans

    new site is lovely. No more new signings yet, come on!

    Id like a new squad but realisticly wont get done in 1 window. MUSTS for this window GK another CB RB ST ST WINGER CM CAM CDM.

    Out guzan, gabby, Richards, bacuna, lescott, hutton sanchez cissokho.

    Willing to let westwood and Clarke make up the numbers for now. No idea if we can keep ayew, gana, amavi vertout. Its going to be a mental summer

  146. runtings

    too be fair i refuse to vote for any current politicians but i have listened to both arguments and believe remain will win

    of course right wing views from the likes of Boris and Nigel are never going to appeal to someone from my background unless they have a forceful argument — still not heard one

    please explain the benefits

  147. steamer

    As far as i’m concerned the working classes are in a lose-lose situation but we stand to lose more by staying in, Dougan implied that we actually are in control of our destiny but our gutless politicians won’t stand up for the country, can anyone believe ANYTHING that Camoron says, this is a worm who’s idea of a night out is smashing up restaurants with his equally scummy pals Boris and Gideon. Vote out and move for a general election on a vote of no-confidence in Camoron agenda and cross your fingers that we get somebody competent and honest in, does anyone in this country qualify ? probably Jezza but he’s seriously curtailed his chances in the past week.

  148. steamer

    Andrew,
    Agree, a completely new B4 is required, we’ll know soon enough about the French lads staying and hopefully Traore will fulfill his potential, he could seriously destroy this division. I’d say 8 new signings are needed. Lescott, Flabs, Sinclair, Guzan just aren’t acceptable to Villans.

  149. John Lerwill

    Runtings,

    I am always saying that there are pros and cons on both sides, but one of the swinging issues for me is that we have become intertwined with Europe so much since the last EU vote (1975) that I firmly believe that coming out of the EU will be nowhere as easy as some may think. And we don’t really know whether ultimately there will be benefits leaving the EU anyway … I see us having a hard job being entirely on our own as the shape and mentality of the business world has moved on over 40 years so that UK is not seen as such a big fish anymore – on its own. Within the EU we have more clout world-wide and also would continue to have a say in how it’s run.

    Let’s not forget that in 1975 we owned a lot of our aviation and automative manufacturing industries. Today we own *nothing* of a decent size. Therefore we are far more at the whim of international business people who may decide to remove themselves to a EU country if we do a Brexit. Some overseas companies (like Nissan) invested here because of our EU link.

    There’s probably no ideal way forward … only a chimera of a may-be if we take the Brexit route. And I say that’s too risky and will put the poorest and most vulnerable at even more risk.

  150. Paul Pears

    Time to start thinking football again, and welcome Tommy Elphick….

    Managed to get season ticket sorted in time for the best deal….

    Who is going to be our next signing…?????

    Should not be worrying about the referendum…..C0ommon sense in all parties want us to stay…even the Scottish Nationalists….which says something….no good being on the outside of the fence…..with no money and no ammo…..We only won the two major wars by being together…otherwise what did our forefathers fight for .

  151. steamer

    Jack Wheelchair & Jordan Henderson as Englands MF, arf arf. Hodgson should be booted before the next game but won’t be because his bessies with dummy Dyke, the entire FA is a joke.

  152. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    Cameron himself says we’ll be OK if we do a Brexit (though I don’t believe that) but that staying in gives us more of a foothold. What’s the point of a divorce when the marriage can be made to work.

    You speak about our politicians not standing up for the UK, but the whole point about the EU is to do with socialist principles … to avoid war, to help the most needy (at the international, national and individual level) … so our approach should be about working *with* others, and not thinking just about ourselves.

    In fact, it seems that we’re financially better off staying in as we get a beneficial return on the £50m p.d. payment to the EU that the leavers always go on about. Their stats seem to be just wrong. Both sides have been loose in their figures but the Brexits figures are so wrong it’s untrue!

    That leaves us with the migration issue. Well, it’s a problem … and it will continue to be a problem whether we’re in or out i.m.o., with the Brexits being more correct on the topic than the Remains. But the decision should not be based on that topic as the main issue … the economy and fabric of cooperation should be the main issues i.m.o.

  153. John Lerwill

    Trin: “Can Brits around the world vote or is it limited to Brits living in the UK?”

    I think it’s both, unless you’ve been living out of the UK for more than 12 years.

  154. steamer

    PP,
    Germany were 30 miles from Paris in 1918, they lost because they never made provision to feed the masses while the troops were away, the German population was starving. The Treaty of Versailles virtually assured that WW11 would occur, even Lloyd George predicted it in 1919.
    As regards the Great Patriotic War that the USSR won, the war turned when they broke out of Moscow under Zhukov, the 25m Soviets that died in the conflict have been disgracefully ignored by the West.

  155. steamer

    John,
    Other high ranking officials have suggested that the whole kit and caboodle will implode in a couple of years, problem being that some members are more equal than others. The poorer but strategically positioned countries are being used by the EEC as a tool for NATO in return for a few crumbs, equality doesn’t really exist everyone knows that Germany and France run the show and look at the state of France now. If we’re going to have this organisation it should return to being just a trading vehicle or just consist of half a dozen major players not weighed down by countries that are always going to struggle through bad financial management, sorry its dog eat dog in the 21st century.

  156. Mark King

    I’m getting to the point where I’m going to explode, do we head for the life boats which look a bit rickety or wait on the Titanic which has got 50 miles to go before it hits the ice berg.

    Think I’m going to join the Dalai Llama

  157. John Lerwill

    Mark: 🙂 .. but not really so funny funny.

    Steamer – I think most are probably aware of what you’re saying, but for me it does not mean you give up hope of some kind of better solution in the marriage.

    Of course there are problems, but we’re already through most of the migration overload since 2004, and until we train our people to do the job that many of the migrants come in for (health and education posts) we’ll continue to need those migrants. Chamelon did recently say, however,
    that he did plan better training for Brits to take up those jobs. Whether the Tories can manage that is another thing, but at least the issue has been recognised.

    Further, there’s reason to think that France and Germany need us in the EU as much as (i.m.o.) we need them. They are not *now* in such a great state that you suggest.

  158. steamer

    David Cameron has urged people to think of the “hopes and dreams” of future generations in a direct appeal to them to vote to stay in the European Union.
    A new low, look at the kids now, after 40 years. Camoron making out that he actually gives a ff about the ordinary families of the UK he can start by abolishing Uni fees and preventing inbred dummies from taking up places at elite universities eg Camoron , Boris and Gideon.

  159. John Lerwill

    BTW, the EU *will* implode if the UK does a Brexit, without doubt. By staying in the issues can be faced collectively, and they need to be faced i.m.o. – not to be run away from.

  160. runtings

    JL i thought you would be aware by now that i am not the type to form opinion based on personality (alone anyway)

    agree with you view overall – all this nationalist , patriotic stuff is not for me – i have love for all the ordinary fare minded people of the human race , in fact i am more worried for the little uns been bombed out of house and home than the refugees filtering into the country because of our actions

  162. Mark King

    JL- engineering/construction training is non existent in this country too by all accounts I have met some very dopey Brit lads in the trades, nobody with any brains wants to get there hands dirty. we should all be well cared for psychologically though with all psychology degree’s out there 😉

  166. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Yes, some daft PM who 10 years ago said the target was to get 50% into universities. Daft ‘aputh!

    Germany has always recognised the need for 3 different education/training streams and therefore they’ve benefited engineering-wise and technologically through that policy. We’ve only recently started to see that apprenticeships aren’t such a bad idea after all.

    Yep … lots of social studies degrees as well as the psycho subjects … and I heard of one person who has got a £35,000 study bill for getting a degree in glass-blowing.

  169. steamer

    Everybody wants to be a pop star.

    Runtingz,
    Agree about nationalism, causes more problems than any country is worth but our problem is the fabric is being destroyed, i’m a believer that when in Rome etc, its easy to follow, the rules apply to everyone, if all the people want to but some don’t.

  170. steamer

    Black had the goolies to take on an impossible job, circumstances would have beaten anybody and at least he stood up to the bullies in the club. Parks showed passion at first but again was worn down, hope they both do well in the future.

  171. runtings

    I hear that steamer – i think Britain (ordinary brits rather than politicians) have a fantastic culture and produce some of the best world citizens to boot
    there are people that come here and don’t integrate or have any respect for the culture (that is wrong)
    its just a vicious circle of things creating radicals – and its been happening for thousands of years , i don’t think it will ever change unless as Michael Tellinger says (thanks for that Jl ) we scrap the money system and work together for each others benefit
    not in our lifetime i guess

  172. Archie

    JL, I agree to a certain extent, there is a lot of worthless degrees which provide zero assistance in developing a career.
    Unfortunately the A level is the gold standard as seen by most parents and the three years spent at University, a right of passage rather than an educational experience. That, I think will not change. The apprenticeship seen as an alternative for the less able student, by a lot of parents. I don’t agree with any of it before you lock and load, but thats the way it is.
    As a former lecturer in H.E. I would say equipe yourself with the best qualification you can get to enhance your chances, preferably a degree, but it doesn’t necessarily kick start your career. A lot of young people enter an H.E. programme without thinking why they’re doing it,(apart from having the University exerience). My answer, think career, think qualification to get the interview.
    Anyway enough of that, I posted ages ago that our club needed a Steve Sims type player from 1987 under Grahan Taylor, a captain and leader do you think Tommy Elphick is that man.

  173. Canadian Villan

    I wish you all well it’s a tough decision. I cant vote, but been out for 20 odd years now. I do remember voting against going in though back in the day, a lot of nay Sayers didn’t vote in that referendum though, as the they had voted in the General Election for the party that was against joining Europe, then didn’t have the balls to follow through and put it back to a vote. I remember a Mars bar going from 6d to 6p over night which was 1205% increase, i still would have voted not to go in if the clock could be put back, but wouldn’t want to have the choice this time around, not sure at all. I know the UK has gone to hell in a hand basket, when i was over three years ago for my sister in laws funeral, even the Scott Arms looked like a war zone after hours, every shop bared up, or top to floor shutters, couldn’t believe my eyes. If that’s what the Scott’s looks like now, lord knows what Steamer’s Alum Rock must look like. Mind i cant say it’s perfect over here any more, getting like the UK I left in the 80’s letting all sorts of trash in, and half our kids cant get real work, only jobs at Mickey D’s or the local Wallymart for minimum wages.
    Good luck Thursday, but at least vote, you cant bitch later if you lose by one vote, and it could have been you that changed it eh?

  175. John Lerwill

    Archie,

    My younger son is a case in point of someone who has somehow made it, despite the educational system.

    He started to do a National Bacc, but couldn’t get on with it … then tried a computer systems support course but couldn’t hack that (despite experience I got him in building his own machine) … then did an accounting course and couldn’t hack that either.

    Instead he’s become (now aged 30) a highly-paid and recognised master cake maker and yet without any qualification at all apart from GCSEs. Makes the best cakes in the country. OK, so I’m biased!

    I guess what I’m saying is that there must be a fair few that have a vocation within them but the system doesn’t do much to help ’em find it. Such people can end up doing some unrewarding job just for the sake of getting a wage.

  176. John Lerwill

    Canada,

    Let’s face it, the old has gone and the world is effectively in turmoil.

    Yeah … I was keen on Mars bars … probably explains why I’m diabetic type 2.

  177. John Lerwill

    Steamer: “but our problem is the fabric is being destroyed”

    Maybe it’s just evolving?

    We’ve had influxes of various people over the centuries and not always readily accepted, but time becomes a healer.

    I was once very amused at a TV programme once when about 6 nationalistic-minded people had their DNA tested to see where their ancestors came from. All had strong genes from all kinds of places around the world that they had no knowledge of! They modified their views as a result of that…!

  178. steamer

    In Alum Rock the locals shut down the roads occasionally so they can race their cars, you never see a police car, don’t believe the bs we DO have no go areas. I certainly wouldn’t walk those streets day or night yet i had several relatives who we’d visit years ago and it was a good walk up the Alum Rock road.

  179. steamer

    JL,
    Think St75’s DNA shows he comes from Mars.
    I’ve always said that everyone has a talent, the lucky one are the folk who find what it is. Still looking.

  180. Trinity

    Mark
    Re: Dalai Llama. The DL has said that Europe needs to stop taking all the refugees and immigrants because there are far too many. He says, Europe should help, but refugees should only have temporary abode in Europe until it’s safe to go home again. They should rebuild their own countries. He argues Europe will lose its character.
    I assume he’s only talking about non political refugees.

    Thanks for the replies regarding the referendum.

  182. Mark King

    Trinity – he’s not wrong is he, soon there won’t be any reason to travel, the animals will be gone and the people all the same and the food from mcdonalds, Bland comes to mind.

    Steamer- I agree from someone still looking too although I like ping pong

    JL- I fear what it is evolving into a the the moment mate, still to many unaware of themselves even.

  183. steamer

    Really enjoyed reading the views on here tonight.
    N/Ireland gave it a go, no shame in losing to them. Germany had 26 goal attempts, thats more than Villa had all last season.

  186. Heroes-and-Villans

    The views on here are first class….i get more sense on here about making my mind up than tv and media bs.

    We want a gk, fb, cam, winger and 2 strikers. Thats 7 new faces inc tommy. Getting a tune out of adama and jack would be like new signings too.

  187. B6toBrasil

    Hey lads,fixtures out tomorrow at 9AM,excited,a new dawn,I’ll be up at 5 to see who we have got and when.At my age I should know better,but I ain’t gonna change now am I?
    RDM is no mug,he will get the spine right first.A new keeper,Tommy E.,a centre mid etc.
    I forecast a shaky start,but a strong season from December onwards…..but what do I know?

  188. Paul Pears

    Nice to see some reasoned arguments amongst our brethren for the debate. Good debates on the tv tonight too.

    I have the same impressions about Alum Rock and some other areas, which years ago, I would have felt completely safe in.

    University places should only be granted free from fees etc, for engineering degrees and similar, as we just cannot recruit young people to fill them these days, as the attitude of many young people is they are too difficult, and they would rather do politics, media studies or similar.

  189. Clive Evans

    Steamer – you were correct regarding the Spain v Croatia game – I enjoyed it!
    In the Copa America Centenary tournament semi-final USA v Argentina I made Guzan culpable of 50% of Argentina’s goals; looking forward to Chile v Costa Rica tomorrow

  190. southwestvillan

    Interesting debate people on Britain, education degrees etc and their worth sometimes luck can play a big part in how you progress in life as Ted would say:
    “I am now a former celebrity working in a minimum wage job I now know how the cast of Different Strokes feels, well those that ain”t dead.”

    Onto more important matters the big day is upon us yes got it in one – fixture day, there was a set of fixtures doing the rounds a few weeks back that people said was a scam it had us away first game to Huddersfield, but on closer scrutiny there was one Saturday where we played the noses and Wolves played Cardiff now surely WMP would not allow that to happen, anyway we will see in one hour.

    SWV

  191. John Lerwill

    Paul/Steamer,

    I live right next to Alum Rock and my mother and her family lived there for donkey’s years.

    I know people there to this day.

    I’m not sure what the problem is, to be frank. Yes, it’s hugely changed but if you go around with peace in your heart then the world is always rosy as far as I’m concerned; I’m not aware of rum doings.

  192. John Lerwill

    The EU Debate

    This is probably the biggest issue that voters are going to face in their lifetimes.

    If we leave then there’s no turning back, let’s please remember that.

    And frankly in last night’s debate I only saw 3 people on the Brexit side who were waffling their way through, trying to appeal to the voters’ sense of national pride, not practicalities.

    This world is in a bad shape. It really needs cooperation all round to try to steer a better course i.m.o. Only through unity can that be achieved, not separation.

    Thanks to all for their input on this – it’s a pity not more made their comment, though I know this is not a political blog.

  193. steamers75

    This is a true story that happened some months ago on the Alum Rock Rd. Two managers from 7trent were here in brum from Derby and asked an engineer wheres a goid place for theses so called best curries. And were told Alum rock . So they parked up and started to walk to a curry house. They got set upon and and beaten up and one of the attackers used one of their mobile phones and they both heard him ring the police and say to them . “We have two whites here and its past 9 and you know we dont allow that ” they then finished off the kicking and about 10 mins later A cop car and ambulance turned up . But you never read it in the papers . I wonder why. Also one of the takeaways on that road has a sign up saying “sharia law operates at this place” now when did that law become legal . And before anyone thinks lm being racist like that other cunt thought last year . I am part asian on my dads side. But hey racism exists in the asian communities . I really hope we get the noses away 1st game .

  195. steamer

    Well Rio’s got his finckin cap on and fincks we ought to stay, our footballers are less inspiring off the pitch as on.

    JL,
    Drugs, crime and the spawning of terrorists are the major things the modern AR is known for, the days of Woolworths, the Morris Commercial club and Timpsons shoe shop (Winit Mercury football boots) are long gone. SWV will testify than even 20 years ago buses with white drivers were being bricked and posters put up warning white folk to keep out.

  196. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    Well, that’s as it may be. But the people there – no matter what background – are predominantly a decent lot. I know them so I know they exist. The lot you talk about probably just make the most noise, I suspect, though S75’s description is pretty alarming.

  197. steamers75

    Sheff weds away . Sunday . Remember ladt time we played them 1st game away and we had nicked B FR off them . Great weekend . Love sheffield .even the nicks ok . You got tea with sugar and Ham sarnies . Not like steelhouse lane . Sugarless tea and jam sarnies that l had took off me as l told them l got ham in sheffield . Steamer .remember you drove the van you arse. Telling us theres a few noses outside only to find about 200 . . And l got nicked outside the old brmb studios . You were never any good wuth figures……..numbers and women figures

  198. steamers75

    Fair play to Hodgeson hes going to set up a friendly against Iceland to cheer the fans up . And if we beat them he’s going to set up games against Asda and Tescos .

  199. southwestvillan

    Yep used to live by the Heartlands hospital or the Broadway has it was known, regular walks down to the Pelham and AR was good in the early days but not recommended now.

    Loved Steelhouse Lane although I used to come out next morning with a lot more cuts and bruises I went in with mind you in those days I was a clumsy fucker, got interviewed/interrogated one Saturday night after an altercation with some noses loads of coppers in the room and they got bored and decided to have a game of football but PC Plod had forgotten the ball thank god I was there otherwise these poor policemen would not have got any exercise.

    Bristol City away August bank holiday I will sort a boozer out Steamer/ST75.

    SWV

  200. B6toBrasil

    Blimey,we never seem to get an opening day match at home do we?When was the last time this happened JL please?
    S75,yeah,nothing but good memories of Sheff.,memorable games there.

  201. B6toBrasil

    Yes Clive,goals 1 and 3 I lay at Guzans door.First one he started to come ,then hesitated,fatal.Third goal ,schoolboy stuff.
    COYVB.
    S75 we went 0-2 down in that game,won 3-2,Regis,Staunton,,are just 2 who made their debuts,amongst a few others I think.COYVB.

  204. steamer

    The Sheff Wed game i remember most was the midweek 4-0 game where we won promotion, after the game Chris Nicholl threw Herbert in the bath but forgot to hold the toerag down for the required twenty minutes. Never liked Hillsborough, much preferred Bramall Lane even when it had three sides, Tony Currie & Alan Woodward great players.

  206. James Gill

    Big ron team
    A the memories
    Teale and god at center back
    Barret and stauton full backs
    Richardson tigerish in mid field
    Parker spraying the ball about
    Nice one cyrille Regis up top
    Super Dalian wonder goals
    Then he only went and signed
    Saunders Houghton and Townsend to add to team

    De Matteo has to rebuild almost entire team ,me I don’t want to see these players again
    Guzan Hutton lescott Richards bacuna gabby
    And
    Clark okoreokore sissko Westwood rudi Sinclair and kozak are not good enough either and have played for too many managers at our club
    On Clark last two Irish matches have changed my mind yes he is a trier but just not good enough

  209. steamer

    6M !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats 1m for every time he got sweat on his shirt.

    Just seen an article titled ‘Is Christian Ronaldo better than Diego Maradona? and people get paid for writing this garbage, apart from Ronnie does anyone believe that crepe ? He’s getting a bit mardy now, his botex must be moving.

  212. Clive Evans

    Steamers75 – before our ‘friendly’ match on Monday……..Thailand used to be called Siam, Myanmar used to be called Burma – do you know what Iceland was called before?

  213. Clive Evans

    Chile will play Argentina in the Copa final after beating Colombia 2-0 – both goals scored in the first 11 minutes; play delayed due to thunderstorms for 2.5 hours – then on 57 minutes Sanchez sent off

  214. DarrenO

    So proud of the boys in green, regardless of a weakened Italian side, this is the first time in our history to get into the last 16 of the Euros. Wish I was there as I had a ticket but no money, at least I got one game in.

    The Ireland fans including a load of Irish Villans I know at the game last night thoroughly deserved that and we get to stay in France to at least Sunday, who knows we could dream of an Ireland/England QF.

    Shoes off for the boys in green

    Hopefully I get the same feeling supporting Villa this season

    UTV

  217. John Lerwill

    DO’R: Yep … I saw the second half and I have to say Ireland were terrific. When Hoolihan missed that glorious chance I thought they’d lost it, but then he set up a wonderful centre on a plate for the goal. Wonderful!!

    Clive; That’s a terrible joke! 🙂

  219. steamers75

    tell you whats big business at the moment , fans getting over 65s to get a season ticket in lower holte , might even do it myself . and l cant blame them , as already games have been changed , and we are going to be playing thursday and friday nights so if you cant make the game through work ect ect , not such a big loss and also some fans are thinking well l paid top money for 6 years to watch dross , so lm in that camp . but for me its the away games l fancy , think sheff weds away is going to be a weekender . and as mentioned to me, seems like quite a few games going to be weekenders ))
    starting with Telford hopefully meeting Runtins , anyone else up for that , doesnt matter about tickets for the game , can have a catch up and a blitz , SWV stay at home and wash your hair , and l will be marking my £20 notes .

    Jenny XXXXXXXXX

  222. steamer

    Whats the point ? he had nothing to offer under MON and even less now. Most of the fans referring to him as ‘a legend’ were slating him way before they knew of his illness and suddenly changed tack. If Morrison & Petrov are examples of ambition we may as well stuck with the yank plank.

  223. Heroes-and-Villans

    Theres no chance of stan coming back to play for the 1st team. He is just coming along to get fit.

    Im ok with ravel…they say the ability there is frightening just getting his head right. Might be worth a gamble if cheap. Next 3 weeks is going to see a lot of transfer activity.

  224. Frem

    Petrov coming back. Wow. Be great having him around the squad.

    Imagine if someone actually buys sinclAir? I actually think Gabby is better so that’s says it all

    Elphick- A very solid signing.

    Gestede to Burnely would be OK. Not a a good footballer

  227. John Lerwill

    Today is one of the saddest days in my life, feeling that I’m going through another divorce.

    It’s the EU I’m talking about, of course.

    But I feel as though it’s unfinished business. I don’t see how 48% of the UK population can be regarded as defeated (whichever way it had gone), and it raises the spectre of identity issues in Scotland and even Ireland, where the border issue comes up once more. And the impact on trade and relationships with the Republic of Ireland.

    Added to that it appears that much of North-East vote (for Exit) was more of a protest vote against politicians than anything to do with the EU.

    It’s a totally unsatisfatory situation we’re now in i.m.o., and I fear it’s all going to get worse as the world is not what it was when we were last “on our own” over 40 years ago.

    Sad, sad, day.

  228. villa@herts

    Very sad day indeed John. Many voted out as a way of kicking out at the establishment but don’t seem to realise that Johnson, Gove & co are the worst sort of establishment! They will scrap all laws that protect workers rights & those they see as hindering free enterprise (in particular those brought in to protect human rights and the environment).
    Sad day made even worse by the thought of being in the Championship!

  229. southwestvillan

    The nation has voted and kick and scream as much as you like but the decision has been made, we may all have to take a hit in the short term and make some adjustments but we will recover and prosper.
    This is a great country with extremely hard working people we have come through two world wars so this will be a breeze, people are frightened of change but change can be a good thing, we need to be innovative to make sure we keep our country among the elite.
    It is time for our politicians to start earning their money to manage and run our country, we can evolve from this and put the UK firmly on the world map.

    SWV

  230. southwestvillan

    PS

    That will be my first and last post as far as politics are concerned I come on here to discuss football and Villa issues not wether Cameron is a tosser or not.

    SWV

  231. steamer

    JL,
    The poll tax was opposed by almost the entire population, thats just one unpopular policy bought in by governments who treat the majority like dirt. I would partially agree that this was a vote to give the establishment a kicking, the lies and deception of Camoron and his cronies have outdone any seen before, hopefully he will do the decent thing and call a general election and then resign. Corbyn doesn’t come out of this with any credit either, unless he realises that the electorate aren’t going to stand for unlimited immigration then ht’s doomed.
    This vote shows that opinion polls are a waste of time, they only take into account the citizens of London, anywhere else doesn’t matter.
    Next step, hopefully, will be English independence from Scotland and Wales (and London) .

  232. steamer

    Just reading through the papers and google and i can’t believe how many ‘experts’ are shocked by the result, ivory towers etc. I still think the establishment will conjure up some scheme to alter the nations decision. Next referendems please – abolishing the monarchy, then bringing back capital punishment.

  233. Trinity

    Nothing much will change in a hurry. 75% of MPs in House of Commons wanted to remain. They still remain in the HoC. There’ll be some superficial change, then it’ll be business as usual. Withdrawl from the EU will be a slow process, so the UK will still be paying 360 million quid a week to the EU for years to come.
    But there’s no need to feel alone. NZ has one of its two warships on standby ready to deploy in support of the UK:).

  234. John Lerwill

    SWV – OK, so you like divorce when only just over half the family think it’s a good idea – and in a situation where a lot of the family exiters weren’t voting against the EU, they were voting against politicians.

    I think we may forget that it’s taken over 1,000 years for the UK to evolve, yet we’ve given the EU just 40 years.

    No, SWV, whether the Brits have got it in ‘;em to get through it or not, integration is better than disintegration. And if you think the future’s more rosy outside the EU then wait and see what’s in store!

    If there had been 10 or more percentage points difference in the result that’s one thing, but all it leaves now is a divided country, and upsetting the Scots and the Irish ain’t a good idea! 😉

  235. John Lerwill

    Trin: “so the UK will still be paying 360 million quid a week to the EU for years to come”

    And getting half of it back *and* also benefiting the country financially by the advantages of being in the EU.

  236. Frem

    So, what are the affects now of us leaving ?

    Pretty much everyone at work wanted out but the only reason they all seemed to come up with was immigration.

    Will the min wage go down? working hours go up? Living costs go up?

  237. Frem

    Sinclair we’d be silly to keep.

    westy- I think he’d be a good box to box cm in the champ so i’d keep. Rudy, good scoring record in the champ to be fair but just not a good player. all depends on how much money we to spend

  238. John Lerwill

    Frem,

    We seem to be being assured that min. wage and hours will be OK.

    As to living costs, that they may go up could well be the case i.m.o. I don’t think many people understand what’s happening in the world and the economic uncertainty that is prevailing – made now worse when we are on our own.

    Many people just think that we will just go out and be British again and everything will be all right, but there are a lot of intangibles that we’ll find out more about over the next year or two.

    But it won’t affect us too much for at least 2 years yet, unless there’s a world upset.

  241. DarrenO

    I’ve no right to comment as I’m not British or have a vote in your country, I admire the sentiment about making Britain great again but was it not always great, it suffers the same issues as every country across the world when there are career politicians involved in that it’s reactive and despite best intentions real issues are ignored or debated until it’s too late to take effective action and anyway was it not always a partner of the EU as opposed to a fully fledged member.

    Despite the fractious relationship between our two countries, we are intertwined through centuries of movement and family, we needed you as a powerful voice in the EU against the German/France axis and now you’ve walked away from that.

    But every cloud has a silver lining and if the pound continues to fall it will make trips to VP a lot cheaper for me.

  242. Heroes-and-Villans

    Had a look at Ravel on you tube…dear lord what a talent. If its not us then someone needs to get into his head, he has it all.

    Sinclair may do a job for us in the championship but he is on big wages and his motivation and total commitment has never been there. Get rid.

  244. Clive Evans

    I’m waiting to see the analysis of the vote if you discount the north of the border and N. Ireland results which were a cast iron gimme; I suspect the England and Wales leave percentage was considerably higher than 48%.

    Anyway – let’s follow SWW now and concentrate on Villa matters, because Villa matters

  245. John Lerwill

    Clive,

    Er … but nothing much Villan-ous is happening just now, apart from speculation! 😉

    Seriously, this country is a in a real state now … this referendum may well have kick-started other issues, or at least brought them to the surface.

  246. DarrenO

    Why discount two parts of the UK, so do you discount other areas that voted to remain so you can make the leave percentage higher, it doesn’t work that way.

    Regardless the UK is split and not just a north/south divide but a generational split as well. The false target of the EU being the root of all the UK’s problems has spared the politicians being identified as the problem and will allow racists wearing the cloak of being good nationalists to take power, step forward Farage.

  247. Clive Evans

    Darren, I was pointing out the fact that Scotland and Northern Ireland overwhelmingly voted to remain and that meant that leave vote from England was a lot higher than the overall figure. It was just an observation and I agree with you on the generational split – I did see a chart that demonstrated this but I can’t find it now or be bothered to look!

  249. Paul Pears

    This could now mean border controls between England and Scotland, following a referendum for Scottish Independence.

    This could also mean that Northern Ireland would then join Eire in a united Ireland, remaining in the EU with Scotland.

    New border controls in Pembroke, Fishguard, Holyhead and many other places…

    Will London want independence too???

    Chinese money now worth more…should we now be able to spend more on new players…??

  252. runtings

    well cameron gone – no confidence vote for corbin — get ready for boris and trump over the pond

    i saw another dr x interview today – very impressed with him indeed – i think there could be great times ahead for the villans

  254. steamer

    The Brexit affects the transfer market too, Europe had strict qualifications.
    The EU is falling apart, only the career politicians want it, look at the Kinnock family, virtually every one was on the gravy train because the knew the right people. Its a busted flush, it can’t be fixed and the longer we stayed the worse it would have got. I haven’t got a patriotic bone in my body i didn’t vote Bexit to get ‘Britain back’ i voted Brexit because the EU didn’t and will never work. The Soviet Union failed because it became a colossal bureaucracy that broke the economy not for any ideological reasons, this added to the incompetence and corruption meant the system was doomed as soon as it was decided to become a European state, the various Nationalistic factions only added to the problems.

  255. steamer

    So Tory boy with a fake cockeneee accent Damon Albarn reckons “democracy has failed us” well he go go and FRO as can the losers who jammed the Downing Street webb site complaining about the result and DEMANDING a re-run, i feel happier by the moment. Wonder what Beckham and Rio are finkin.

  256. John Lerwill

    Clive: ” leave vote from England was a lot higher than the overall figure”

    Not really, Clive. 53% to 47%. I still don’t call that a big margin.

    The maps you refer to could well be those here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

    It was the east side of England – from Essex up to Northumberland – that really dealt the blow to Remain in England, though most non-urban areas elsewhere helped that cause a lot as well.

    I was shocked that Birmingham had a slight lurch to Brexit.

    And as for that lot around Coleshill…!!!! Arrrrrrgh!

  257. John Lerwill

    Steamer: “The EU is falling apart, only the career politicians want it,”

    C’mon Steamer … what about the u-35s that I’ve been harping about. They mainly wanted ‘in’ and now their future in that has been denied by old fogies.

  258. John Lerwill


    Steamer,

    I heard on TV an interview with an ordinary German today, who asked: “What’s wrong with the British – I thought they are Europeans as well”.

    It reminded me of all the hiking trips that I did around Europe in the 1960s and talking to people then. Their concept was that *all* Europeans should be together purely because we are all of a similar stock.

    They influenced me a lot so that I became to think as a European, as I still do. And I admire the Kinnocks (and others) for their belief in that.

    Brits who have not travelled as I did will not understand that p.o.v. I suppose.

    It’s a travesty to be otherwise i.m.o.

    We will all now have to suffer the consequences of this exit.

  260. steamer

    John,
    I consider myself to be a European, but i/we don’t like what is happening to our communities, we are third class citizens in the land of our birth. The ‘little Britain’ ideology wasn’t my motivation for voting Brexit it was seeing the destruction of what was a great country by unprincipled second rate politicians with neo-socialist ideas that are outdated and un-achievable.
    As for the entire greed motivated Kinnock family, i fail to see anything to admire there, pretend socialists who began the decline of the Labour Party into the confused ineffective rabble it is now.

  261. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    Sorry, mate, I don’t recognise what you say about the Kinnocks. The Blairs, yes.

    I don’t necessarily agree with what the Kinnocks say, however, but I do think they’re more in touch than a lot of politicians.

    As for the “destruction of what was a great country”, I believe that’s down to most of us being seduced into a materialistic way of thinking. We ourselves are to blame i.m.o. as a result of allowing ourselves to be channelled in that way and, indeed, away from the more beneficial mode of thinking that exists in most ordinary Europeans.

    Saw a fine talk on the Beeb last night given by Bethany Hughes, on Frederick Neitsche. I read his “Thus Spake Zarathustra” about the time I last voted in an EU Referendum (1975), and found him far-seeing. Including his vision of a society that would deteriorate because of a multitudinous availability of irrelevant pastimes – the loss of meaning in people’s lives. He was spot on in my view, and I think that’s what part of the underlying issue is.

  262. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    I lived in London for 32 years and always found it mentally a much more satisfying place to be than elsewhere, except in the countryside.

    Can’t agree that there’s arrogance – they have a higher degree of pressure just in day-to-day living than most others in the UK – yet they mostly think on more harmonious and rational lines. As the article says, there’s much more of melting pot there than anywhere else.

    Though London going it alone is a laughable concept, I agree there.

  264. Paul Pears

    The London vote to remain was highest in the boroughs, Hackney, Haringey and Lambeth, which probably have the highest number of immigrants, interestingly the West Midlands had the highest overall leave vote, whereas Scotland had the highest remain vote.

    France and other countries now wanting a referendum, so Europe could start to implode.

    I fully understand all the points that Steamer has made, and Europe does need a complete overhaul.

  265. steamer

    I saw the Bethany Hughes prog on Karl Marx last week, not very impressed to be honest.
    Wasn’t Nietsche the chap who inspired Hitler ? Formed a Jeerman colony in S/America and there’s still Blue eyed blonde people living there, or is that someone else ? I saw a prog donkeys years ago and can’t remember who it was about but it reminded me of the film The Boys From Brazil.

  266. villa@herts

    Steamer I admire your principle of not supporting leave on the grounds of “little Britain” and for considering yourself European! I remember opposing What was then the common market on the grounds that it was a “bosses club” in the last referendum fiercely arguing that you didn’t need to be in to be a European! I see much wrong with the EU and in truth when the referendum was called I was pretty ambiguous about it!

    I changed to a remain supporter when I saw who was leading the out campaign and also considered what would be lost if we came out and were run by a Johnson/Gove or worse Johnson / Grayling government who would (& I fear will) tear up all gains made to support workers and the vulnerable in our society, and push through Thatcherism II!

    What I don’t buy is that our communities are being distoryed (presumably by Eastern European migrants) & that those born here are 3rd class citizens! This has been the cry of generations over the past 200 years or more. In my life it was said about the Irish in the 50s the West Indians in the 60s and then those from Indian sub continent ( and East African Asians expelled by dictators). In truth there are very few Brits, who don’t come, at least in part, from immigrant stock. Some of my ancestors came from Ireland to escape the famine! We are in truth a mongrel race. IMO it’s that that has made us great.

    Last point, I like you despies the Kinnock’s. I met him once just before the 82 election when I was active in the postal workers union. He came to a meeting to urge support for Michael Foot’s election campaign but spent most of his time undermining Foot and promoting himself as the next leader! Two years later he had me expelled from the Labour party for supporting the miners strike! Although I despise the Kinnock’s I hate Blaire along with Bush IMO are responsible for destabilising the Middle East leading to the growth of ISIS and the current Syrian crisis. Don’t even get me started on Israel!!

    Anyway I wasn’t going to comment on the referendum but as I have said before this blog is always informative and only occasionally boring!!!
    I won’t comment again. What has happened has happened and we move on! UTV

  268. John Lerwill

    Paul,

    And I don’t understand the points Steamer has made? 😉

    Of course I do, but the matter goes much deeper.

    And yes, all along I’ve said that the EU needs a lot of surgery.

  269. John Lerwill

    Steamer: “Wasn’t Nietsche the chap who inspired Hitler ? “

    I thought you might come up with that red herring! 😉

    The answer is “yes” if you were to simply say was Hitler impressed by the last book that came out under Neitche’s *name* … BUT … that book was *heavily* adulterated by the author’s sister who was anti-semitic, and at the time when the author was in a mental asylum.

    It’s well documented. Bethany reported it last night and you can find the matter on reputable websites.

  271. John Lerwill

    Herts: ” What has happened has happened and we move on!”

    If that were the simple case I would move on … but the matter is by no means finished.

    The fall-out from this has already started and by this time next year we’ll be in a daze following all the other ramifications that will have unravelled by then.

  272. steamer

    JL,
    I wasn’t certain about the documentary i saw, it was a few years ago, but it was bloomin’ interesting and i remember the references to Nietsche’s sister, must do some research. I’ll get Iplayer up.
    Villa@Herts,
    Before he got the gig i thought Kinnock would be a decent leader, later i saw him humiliate one of my hero’s Eric Heffer at a LP conference, he tried everything to destroy Derek Hatton but hadn’t the intellect, Hatton just gave up in the end. He showed his true colours, IMO he’s pure slime, a blot on Labour Party history, to denigrate Michael Foot is unforgivable, a great humanitarian and true socialist

  273. steamer

    Villa@Herts,
    This must be the most left wing blog on the net.
    Hopefully Johnson has shot himself in the foot, the Tory hierarchy don’t usually forgive plotters who bring down PM’s, Heseltine ? I don’t think Gove is imposing enough although he surprised me with his tenacity, Osborne is such a knob even the Tories loathe him, but i think IDS fancies another go. Not much talent in the political sphere is there ?

  274. John Lerwill

    Steamer – on Kinnock.

    OK, he does seem to have cast a blot on himself. I hadn’t realised that.

    But in fact I always thought he was a bit of a hot-head, and excused his read hair for him being of that temperament.

    Not sure, still, that he’s as bad as you seem to make out – some people just make mistakes, even though they may seem poor ones. With a wife like Glynis he can’t be all bad. Can he?!!

  275. John Lerwill

    Steamer: ” Not much talent in the political sphere is there ?”

    Exactly. The quality we had (yes, there was *some*!) is gooooon. Makes me wonder again how John Smith and Robin Cook seem to have conveniently made their exit from this life.

  278. steamer

    Cynical there St75.

    JL,
    Just watched the doc on Nietzsche, very good, Bettany is very enthusiastic just like Michael Wood on his history docs.

  280. Trinity

    Steamer
    :…i fail to see anything to admire there, pretend socialists who began the decline of the Labour Party into the confused ineffective rabble it is now.”
    The Labour Party here is in the same boat. They’re toothless, and people can’t distinguish between them and the governing National Party. They’re not even keeping the government accountable as the opposition is supposed to. They’re usually quiet.

    John
    Don’t worry. The Commonwealth is still your friend:).

  281. John Lerwill

    Trinity,

    On the Labour Party, things have moved away from the Blairite Age – except the conflict with the Bairites that still exist. But I’d agree that there seems to be a lack of energy in the Labour leadership which, frankly, I don’t understand.

    On the matter of “the Commonwealth” – well if that were the only issue then I wouldn’t be so concerned. All I’ll say is wait another 12 months – then we’ll see what this plebiscite has really helped to trigger.

  282. Mark King

    Hi folks, late to the party I see.

    I think the politicians on both sides of brexit have shot themselves in the foot especially the in brigade. The campaign was scandalous on both sides and if you try to scare people and don’t give them enough info to choose rationally then of course simple folk are going to get pissed off and react emotionally. what about the 25% who didn’t vote?

    I heard today that the French , Danish and the Dutch want a referendum, we may be able to start our own Market soon. It appears the EU and Europe may not be as rock solid as we think. This is early days and has lot of twists and turns to go. What we really need is some people who know what do in charge for a change.

  285. r0bb0

    The moment that angered me most was the 84 ‘leave’ Tory politicians writing the letter asking Cameron to stay on.
    They know damn well that they can’t deliver on all the lies they they’ve told through the campaign so they wanted him to stay on and take the rap.

  287. John Lerwill


    In fact, I’m thinking that perhaps we should go Swiss and decide *all* significant matters by referenda.

    The Swiss have about 9 referendums per year. I’m beginning to think that we should be doing that as well.

  289. steamer

    Trin,
    We would be lucky if that were the case, the UK completely abandoned its Commonwealth friends/markets when it joined the Common Market, it would be extremely generous of them to let bygones be bygones.
    JL,
    Don’t think 9 a year would be enough with all our problems, what we call problems the elite don’t recognise. Where’s Cromwell and Fairfax when you need them ?

  290. steamer

    Looking at that list they’re obviously a lot smarter than we are, i’d be in favour of more referendums because the politicians are less trustworthy than most of the population.
    Hows these for a few –
    Becoming a Republic.
    Re-introducing capital punishment.
    Abolishing the honours list and removing any current honours.
    Moving the capital to the centre of the country…..Birmingham.
    Abolishing the army and forming an armed border patrol.

  292. steamers75

    Steamer
    leave Liz alone , whats queenie done to upset you . and no Army ?? hope you mean the jesus army ,

    and if your gonna start talking all this shit later in wolverhampton , lm gonna put some rhyphonol in your drink and leave you to the Yam Yams ,
    Dennis Skinner , the ONLY decent mp in the goverment,

    seriously ….l feel a war and a cull coming .
    had a chat with Keith in the papershop , and we were on about the companies who have moved abroad , HP sauce, part of Cadbury’s , Ford transit vans, the mini , even the company l worked for , Harmo . had a check and all moved with EU Grants …… so how did that help Britain ?

    anyway had a good chinwag with JB and been going through the fixtures for the away games , swv were gonna blitz your house , but it seems the 3rd Div mentality of olde is rearing its head . cant wait ….
    and steamer FFS dont drive into the skip on my drive

  293. steamers75

    nah steamer . best line from Dennis was . 50% of the tory party are corrupt , Speaker , you cant say that please withdraw that remark !!
    our Dennis . ok 50% of the tory party are’nt corrupt ….
    Thats Class

  295. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    I admire your ambitious referendum subjects!

    I’m afraid I wouldn’t support many of ’em, and “Moving the capital to the centre of the country…..Birmingham.” is just asking for trouble! 😉

    I see that Brum only had 63% turnout for the Brexit result – perhaps the lowest in England – so what’s the chance of Brum people taking anything seriously?

  296. B62 Villa

    I haven’t seen this much hysteria and scaremongering since the Cold War ! Is the end of the world nigh?? No I thought not. It’s like a scene out of monty pythons , The life of Brian. I think we can flourish without the busted flush that was the EU. It was a completely different animal to the one we signed up to in the 70’s, we were being dictated to by Merkel and the French , Cameron had become the modern day Neville Chamberlain waving his peice of paper, saying his proposals would be honoured( when everyone knew they wouldn’t ). I only ever feel European during the Ryder Cup 😉 so I voted to leave, as in its current format the EU is a busted flush.
    As I said to a bloke at work, if I want to know about European economy I will speak to an economist, if I want I want to know about the long term effects of not being Europe , I will speak to a West Brom fan !!!!!!

  297. B62 Villa

    43 days until we KO at Hillsborough, I’m hoping to see some real moment in the transfer market and see the squad take shape for the upcoming campaign . I’m looking forward to a few weekend away games, Bristol City for Aug Bank hol sticks out in the early part, Weston Super Mare will be over run ( again).

  298. B62 Villa

    I see the Australians are taking their 3-0 drubbing in the rugby well, this is the headline in the paper ” Well Done England, Now a second continent hates you!”
    Sore losers lol

  300. John Lerwill

    B62: “It was a completely different animal to the one we signed up to in the 70’s”

    Sorry, mate, you clearly didn’t read the small print at the 1975 referendum! 😉

    It clearly stated that a United States of Europe could be an eventual outcome.

    Anyway, this time around it was a sham! What business do the oldies have in telling the young what their future is?!

  301. Mark King

    JL- what business do the young have in telling the older (36 to 90 is a long time) not to vote in there own interest? many are worried about schools etc for their children. People are having kids older now so counting them out or making them irrelevant in this is a bit harsh. Have we not already been told we will be working to 70 at least now, retirement for many is a pipe dream.

    Youngsters are supposed to be creative and up and at them, rather than focus on the negative why not embrace a democratic decision as we all have had to when not old enough to vote or the vote doesn’t go your way, all part of lifes lessons. I also know plenty of youngsters that voted out, what of their opinions?

    If there is fault to be laid at feet I suggest you look at those that lead us, its was their idea and there poorly run campaigns that created uncertainty

  304. steamer

    If the EU care about the future of the youth why is there 50% unemployment among them in Greece and an average 20% throughout the 28 nations. Also why are they preventing kids even getting into schools because there are too many immigrants blocking the system.
    Just read what David Lammy says, pathetic idiot with no idea of the word democracy, if he hasn’t the goolies to resign the Labour Party must sack him. This isn’t a Communist state the people have spoken, there’s plenty of airports and ports around the UK if he wants to live in a EU zone, my advice to him is to get out if he doesn’t like it.

  305. steamer

    Mark,
    Typical of the youth of today, its always someone else’s fault. My advice to the twats is grow a pair and knuckle down or bugger off abroad, most of us have been through unemployment and recessions, what gives these wimps the idea they are immune, what do they want ? everything on a plate by the sound of it. Go into a trade that needs good honest workers, what exactly is media studies ? get your hands dirty instead of sitting on your jacksies dreaming of your holidays, pathetic. As for the London Lexit shower, who saved your bacon in WW2, Birmingham, the first city bombed by the Luftwaffe because of it weapons factories while they were getting out to the countryside, London ? Foff, its being built into a gilded palace on the backs of exports by trades in a hundred cities & towns, weak kneed and full of BS.

  307. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    The schools matter is nothing to do with the EU vote. And many of the older (40+) voters were voting out of frustration rather than thinking of the specific EU matter.

    By the way, the group voting to remain was the under-45s, not 36+.

    The point is, Mark, that the predominant *wish* of the u-45s is/was to ;’Remain’. If that is/was their wish and with their *much* longer working span to look forward to, then they should have much more cred in the outcome i.m.o.

    Maybe an issue with the young is also that they’re now more often brought up to think as Europeans. Some travel a lot more than people did when I was young (I was an exception, apart from those that went to Lanzarote just to lie in the beach back in the 60s!!).

    It’s *their* future, Mark, not yours nor mine. And I’m speaking as a septuagenarian.

  308. B62 Villa

    JL
    Mk is right I was 3 the last time we voted on the EU lol however I voted for my son who is 19mths old ( but has a wand of a left peg already). The old didn’t betray the young in this vote, they betrayed themselves, only 36% of eligible voters under 25 voted!! You can’t moan if your not in the game, where as the rest of us actually got of our arses and did vote, perhaps if they stopped playing play station and wanking( although tbf that is more fun) and voted they would have got the result they now crave. The point of democracy is to get the public it affects to decide, it isn’t anyone else’s fault if they can’t be arsed.
    So many people moaning and bitching , yet the remain camp were as guilty as the leave of lying to the public. Immigration was the biggest issue, take that out and it’s a different debate . It doesn’t make you racist for not wanting unlimited uncontrolled immigration of unskilled economic migrants.

  310. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    I think that view of Londoners is OTT – wildly exaggerated. Sorry to say that, but it’s true.

    My experience is that Londoners are predominantly like you or me or anyone else, in who they are and the challenges they have to face.

    Have you ever lived in London for any length of time? Er, for more than a month? 😉

  311. John Lerwill

    B62,

    Of course a number of people of all age groups voted out!

    That’s not what I was saying – go and look at my blog for the stats of voting over each age group. The wish of the under-45’s – *overall* – was to Remain, not Exit.

    In other words, if the vote of the u-45s had counted, we’d still be in the EU!!

  313. John Lerwill

    B62: ” Immigration was the biggest issue, take that out and it’s a different debate . It doesn’t make you racist for not wanting unlimited uncontrolled immigration of unskilled economic migrants.”

    You’re spot on. I agree.

    But the point is that the migrant issue is *not* necessarily going to be sorted out by Brexit in any case. “They” have told you it will, but since when did we trust politicians? I for one don’t belief it for one second – i.m.o. you’ve been sold a dummy.

  314. John Lerwill

    B62 …

    P.S. …

    1. One-fifth of the NHS staff come from the EU (and a good number of teachers.

    2.Half the number of immigrants are from outside the EU.

    3. English people don’t like working on the land and hence why we have so many workers from the EU coming in to do that work – fruit picking etc.

    4. Whether we will have a “points system” like Australia is by no means a certainty.

  315. steamer

    Cameron is calling for mass suicide by anyone over 45 so the weak kneed youth can have their way.
    When you consider the totally biased media, especially the BBC which ought to be closed down, then the Brexit had an uphill task but democracy made a brief comeback.
    If anyone looked back at the Thatcher years they would see the persecution of the working classes was inhuman, did we lobby for general election results to be reversed ? The mad cow even engineered a war so save her scraggy skin.

  317. Trinity

    Steamer
    Yes, I remember lots of people losing their jobs when the UK turned its back on its Commonwealth markets. NZ lost most of its mutton exports to the UK. The Rainbow Warrior affair also hit home. The French government sanctioned the bombing of a Green Peace ship in NZ. A Portuguese national died. Even some of the agents, who were sent to sink the Rainbow Warrior have come out and said it was wrong. At the time the UK government said nothing in support of NZ. It was a French government sanctioned act of terrorism, yet … Eventually the UN gave France a slap on the wrist.
    What it showed NZ though, was that bigger players like France can get away with murder. Countries like NZ are insignificant. The Commonwealth is essentially defunct. The UK has lost integrity. It also showed that NZ must stand on its own two feet, something the UK will hopefully get used to doing.

  318. B62 Villa

    JL
    We cannot only go on the will of a section of the community who vote in the X factor and big brother lol if the younger generation felt so strongly about there future they should have voted

  319. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    Fine … then let the NHS jobs be filled with Brits, trained by our wonderful Tory government.

    Mate, let’s face it, the problems we now face are essentially to do with the way this country has been run for the last 40 years in particular. It’s *not* to do specifically with the EU, though everyone is conned to think that it is. Yes, the EU has problems, but our problems are mainly to do with our own mis-government.

    The reason for the proposed reversal of the EU decision is clear cut – the fact that the youngest’s (u-45s) say has not been heard. It should be (it’s their future), and if you deny that then you must feel happy that the younger generation should be forced to live outside the EU.

    The EU has only been given 40 years. YES, it needs sorting out big-time, but as the UK evolution took hundreds of years, so does the EU need a much longer period to be made to work. If we remain out, then the whole idea of EU unification will go – and that is a hugely sad situation in my view, as well as the possible loss of Scotland and NI. The future should be about unification, not destruction: positive not negative.

  320. B62 Villa

    Trinity
    The Rainbow warrior affair was a disgrace , NZ have always been a keen Ally of the UK and when I I was in our armed forces there were a fair few Kiwis( who got extra dispensation leave every few years) my local boozer( Iv been in here since 1645 for the football) is full of people discussing the vote, only the younger element are beyond apathetic, so bollox to them I’ll vote for me and my own UTV

  321. John Lerwill

    B62: “We cannot only go on the will of a section of the community who vote in the X factor and big brother lol if the younger generation felt so strongly about there future they should have voted”

    We are talking of the age group up to *at least* 45 (one poll suggest age 50 as the upper limit of people preferring to Remain.

    In other words, the 25 to 45/50 group are generally pretty mature people with many responsibilities. The u-25s that did vote are mostly those who have received a good education – NOT the Big Brother watchers.

    I hope there are not some people here who are trying to throw water on actual facts? 😉

  322. B62 Villa

    JL
    The country has basically voted on one issue, Immigration and the uncontrolled no upper limit of EU economic migrants. Everything else is a side issue, let’s not kid ourselves people are fed up of unskilled eu sponges who are allowed to send cash back to the eastern block etc. The influxof doctors, teachers etc is not the issue but how many People trafficking , prostitution rings and car washers( money laundering) do we need??? That’s what we have earned as well as the 120k plus immigrants in our prison system? Immigration is fine and healthy, if we get the right people with skills, but the EU as it was basically allows crime and scum to flourish , and anyone who is against it classed as Racist!!!

  323. B62 Villa

    JL
    Britain voted out, a cross the demographic we voted out, so that for better or worse should be implemented. Anything less then democracy has lost and we as a nation are fucked. My politics are so far off from Steamers, it’s untrue, yet we are from differing age groups , views , social back grounds and areas , but we agree that the UK is better governing itself than from a German and French dictatorship!! I didn’t see the rest of Europe ponying up in 1939. We aren’t really European we ate an island race of mongrels, we will overcome this and continue to flourish it’s what we do ! And as for the Villa we need to start the squad overhaul soon

  324. John Lerwill

    B62,

    Well, i.m.o. you’re wildly wrong on some of those points – you’ve addressed the negative issues, which are inflated by the Farages of this world. But if they were true, do you think that Brexit deals (or will deal) with those issues?

    Politicians are still the people who will do the leading – and they will make a hash of it as they generally do.

    Via Brexit, we do not have a Captain of HMS Great Britain that is worthy of sailing us to calm waters. All I can see, ultimately, is chaos and mutiny. The situation is not just a split from the EU but that the country is badly divided.

    I can see a veritable return to the Stone Age – we do NOT have the resources or good-will to go it alone.

  325. John Lerwill

    B62: “We aren’t really European we ate an island race of mongrels”

    So are the other Europeans. Have you been to Germany, France and Holland?

    But CULTURALLY we are strongly linked with the Europeans – well, the Germans and the Dutch more so.

    And you think that France and Germany are disctators? Well, France is certainly in no position to be so, and Germany has been pretty well governed for the last 70 years, and can lay down some standards that we would do well to follow – educationally and industrially. We have lost virtually all our rights to claim anything of virtue – that’s really why we’re mongrels.

  326. steamer

    Trin,
    I remember the Rainbow Warrior debacle, the French were obviously guilty, saw a documentary on the subject and it was more than certain. As you said NZ was treated with utter contempt, disgraceful.
    B62,
    Agree.

  327. steamer

    Anyway, that’s my final comment on a subject that could have been avoided by a capable and honest leader,unfortunately we only had Cameron.
    Back to the Villa now ……

  328. John Lerwill


    To sum up before I go and watch Portugal and then to bed … 😉

    The world is in chaos and yet we seem to believe that breaking away from the EU is the solution to our problems.

    If we do think that way then in my view we’re heading for the most almighty self-reality check: nothing like it will have been experienced on this forum before – none of us.

    The year 2017 will reveal all. I wish you all well and exit the debate! 🙂

  330. Mark King

    JL- well I have to ask why these younger people haven’t cottoned on and voted out the useless idiots in government before it got to this? For many people I have talked to the reasons are varied, much more varied than immigration but I don’t believe The EU is that great.

    At 53 I don’t feel old or ready to move aside. If the youngsters of today carry on as they seem to be they won’t out live their parents sad but true in a lot of cases. I think Steamers right we are to used to handouts, I wish people would stop chasing the money and wake up but thats the world we live in, we let it happen.

    As for much more travelled of course they are, they have much greater opportunity and cheap flights. Working class people didn’t go abroad when I was a kid and my dad went to Belgium Once, that was with work. My brothers stag do recently was in Poland, the world has changed but its not entirely down to the EU.

  331. B62 Villa

    JL
    As much as I admire and respect your position, and yet you like the politicians ( on both sides labour/cons) have failed to convince me that my country ad future( inc my sons) is better off in a fractured and broken EU! Why should British citizens be dictated to by German/French/etc leaders? Why do we have to abide by laws we don’t want set by leaders we never democratically voted in? The young have that right because of the generations that went before, after all that sacrifice and death do we still want a German prime minister telling us what we can and can’t do? It is no coincidence that the populous of Germany, France, Spain etc want referendums as the EU is a busted flush and literally as useful as a chocolate fire guard . The USSR was a far greater unity and power and imploded , we cannot become a European USA which was the vision!! We cannot have a EU armed force, and please tell me what the likes of Macedonia, Turkey ( who are going to join) coupled with the likes of Romania, Bulgaria etc bring to the party??? And why are we paying for their inclusion?? Also why do we pay out billions in aid to country’s when other EU don’t?? I honestly don’t see many benefits the negatives far out weigh for me and I have also travelled the world, since 16 yrs old I have worked and visited every continent the Europe I went in 1989 is not the Europe I visit now , it vp time we actually did what is best for us and our children not what some do gooder in belguim thinks

  332. B62 Villa

    The one good thing about this site is we all stay civil and discuss, although SWV is right it is a football blog and we should remember that first and foremost.
    On that I would like to congratulate Northern Ireland on their efforts in these championships, only an own goal ( by an WBA player) sunk them , great fans great championships and very unlucky to lose, FGAFU good effort( will grigg best chant never got in the pitch lol)

  333. John Lerwill

    B62,

    Yes, but if there’s nowt happening at the Villa just now, there’s a not much to dwell on footie-wise is there? 😉

    This EU matter has much, much more relevance to every aspect of our lives – *football included*. I’ve already read that there could be a big confrontation against England fans in the Euros … I dearly hope not, but I think we very much misunderstand the backlash that is developing over this.

    I’m afraid we’re asleep if we think this is just a passing thing. This EU result is not going to go away … it might from this blog, but elsewhere the ramifications are only just beginning to unfold.

    Anyhow, there’s not much point in debating further. I’m just so very sorry that you can’t all be more positive about unity … Whether you like it or not that is the only way forward, as it is in any marriage.

    All the best.

  335. Jenny Truman

    Hello again everyone

    Welcome to the house of fun Canadian Villan (yes I watched madness last night )
    I’m the voice of reason on here 🙂

    As I said to my WHU friend – I’m so looking forward To winning some games next season even if we are in Champiinship and I like deMateo .

    Well I’m off to see Lionel Ritchie today – so excited “there will be dancing in the street all night long “. Let’s hope this is what Tonix is going to bring to Villa . (Nice one John )

  337. steamer

    Hope the Euro’s pick up because its been absolutely pathetic up to now, Engurland have contributed nothing except negativity and functionality because the manager is third rate and thats what Engurland do all the time. The Chile vs Argentina game promises to be a classic, two attacking teams who are built for exciting football. If Gregg Dyke is happy to watch Hodgson drag, admittedly mediocre players, down to new depths then good luck to him, i bet he still gets a knighthood.

  338. steamer

    So after the refusal of the arrogant juveniles to accept Brexit the snakes in the Labour Party refuse to accept Corbyn who pissed the vote for leadership, anarchy reigns. Hilary Benn is a total disgrace to his name. I said last year that democracy doesn’t exist, blood will be shed.

  339. Jenny Truman

    Hi steamer – Lionel is on at Gloucester rugby stadium – he’s doing a stadium tour . Corrinne Baily Rae as warm up 🙂

    I’m surprised at Hilary Benn tbh . It’s a farce – the referendum was driven by political greed . Neither side have the people at heart : it’s greed for power .

    Trying to get every group in society , the disabled , the poor , the people they’ve unceremoniously thrown under the bus to vote for them . I was with the lady who started the food bank in Ladywood , a very deprived area in Bham who I’ve volunteered to work with . These poor souls weren’t worried about Brexit , they were worried about feeding their kids as in school holidays they don’t get school meals. its a fing disgrace that we have to have food banks . I’ll get off my soap box now .

  340. John Lerwill

    Jenny,

    I’m sure you’re right: I concur with that viewpoint. But we do need to have a governing mechanis that works in some kind of fashion. Otherwise it becomes chaos, as we’re now beginning to see.

  343. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    I’ve just seen that the number who have signed that petition is now over 3 millions. It’s doubled in 24 hours and 200,000 added in the last 2 or 3 hours.

    That’s an awful lot of childish people we have. I wonder who is going to look after this nursery? 😀

  344. Mark King

    JL- Well if our fans do get attacked for leaving the EU that just about says its all doesn’t it? if the shoe was on the other foot you would not get that reaction from the UK. Although the non acceptance of the vote no matter the reasoning is pretty appalling in itself, by all means people should voice their opinion but demand a re-vote?? We were told this is a one way street now it appears that it depends who’s at the wheel which way we are going down it.

    As Jen has said enough is enough we need to repair Britain and look after our own, we have always been there for other nations in times of trouble that won’t stop, its in our nation blood.

  345. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    No, I don’t think “it says it all” in the way you mean.

    It seems to me that no-one on this site seems to realise we are not just going through this transition, the whole world is going through a transition, and the outcome is unpredictable.

    Just as the English got scared on the migrants angle, the Europeans are doubly concerned because they’ve been hit by a lot more from the Mediterranean area and are now going nationalistic about it (well, in France and Germany). And some are angry with the UK in not sharing *their* pain.

    It’s all going to get a lot worse by next year … hand-in-hand with a global recession there’s a likelihood of more-or-less complete chaos that will take some years to die down. And then civilisation will start again…

    That’s my prediction. Accept it or not, that’s up to you.

  346. Mark King

    JL- should the out now start a petition? you might just find a re-vote will cause worse problems than we have now. As for better educated? by whom? since when has our schools taught thinking outside the box? the whole of this stinks, jo’s death being the pinnacle, you of all people should be questioning the manipulation we have seen.

    Youngsters today have the chance to go to UNI my generation did not unless your parents could afford it . They are in my opinion quite lucky to be born at this time in the opportunities they have although the 60’s through to the 90’s were incredible times for differing reasons.

  347. John Lerwill

    Oh, P.S. …

    We won’;t be able to “look after our own” at the standard we’re now at as there won’t be the resources to cope. As I see it.

    But thankfully we’ll not be able to extricate ourselves from the EU for at least another 3 or 4 years. They say 2, but I don’t think anyone believes that – it took Greenland 3 years and they’re a much different case, and that was way back in 1985.

    So until those years are passed there’s going to rank uncertainty and (as I said) chaos. And many foreign employers (particularly banks) are at this moment readying themselves to move out.

  348. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Whatever you say, you (understandably) are looking at the trees and can’t see the wood.

    It is very ironic that the generation that *very heavily* voted in (1975) are the very generation who voted us out now without caring about the younger lot. The old generation were happy to go for it back then but are now grumpy old sourpusses in my view. Except me and my friends of course!!! 😀

  349. Mark King

    JL- yes mate your wonderful and the rest of us no nothing we get it 😉

    this quote for me is so far of the mark its untrue, If so called educated people are coming to conclusions such as this I give up. Immigration was not what was voted on membership of the EU was.

    Zainabb Hull, a 23-year-old graduate from London, said the vote meant “more anxiety for me, more instability to navigate and try to understand. I’m also a woman of colour. This result confirms my fears. That my families aren’t seen as people, as human. They’re not welcome here, and as a product of immigration, neither am I.”

  350. steamers75

    wheres all this looking after the youths come from ?? did we complain about a massive issue of uni fees. err no , youths now are leaving uni with £40,000 + debt , but because a vote went the wrong way to some . they have become a big issue .
    as you know l asked on here if anybody knew of any jobs going for a trained Bricklayer , nothing came with that , so l paid for him to take a Fork lift truck license , l had to pay for 3 different licenses for him to even be able to get an interview , after months (11) he got into the rover BUT its with an Agency and he was told he would be taken on after 4 months , but no sign of that , and he was told by a charge hand if he dont like it , “fuck off as we can get loads of car washers and train them up “( Meaning Immigrants , ) Steamer can vouch for all the money and time l spent trying to help him get a job , and these things stick in the mind ,
    also l voted out as l got sick and tired of hearing what a gravy train it was , and l see the headlines today that a 1000 workers are going to lose their jobs at HSBC BANK , and mps and the like are making a big deal about it , Boo Hooo… did they worry about the steelworkers losing their jobs in wales and sheffield ?? did they fuck , and as l see it ( as a thick fucking electrician ) that a few other countries were waiting to see if Britain pulled out and are now Queuing up to make their break for it ,
    and the big thing with me is lv been to all corners of europe with the villa and have l ever found a country that likes us Brits …….have l fuck
    well off to check on the wife

  351. John Lerwill

    Mark: – “If so called educated people are coming to conclusions such as this I give up. Immigration was not what was voted on membership of the EU was.” … Sorry, I’m afraid you must be in some other world then, as a Nick Robinson programme on the Beeb showed last night that migrants are being frowned on – and have been for some months, since Brexit started rolling. My wife went down to London on Friday by train and got to talking with people from abroad and they say much the same thing.

    ST75: The issues you raise are Westminster/British problems, not EU problems. We’ve voted against the government on non-relevant matters by the sound of it. It’s the governments of the last 40 years that have progressively created this situation – aided by *us* who have voted for them. The EU is a red herring.

  352. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    No you don’t “get it”. What I am saying is that everyone is looking at the EU matter from a detailed angle instead of looking at the big picture. If you lose the big picture then you can’t see what the ramifications are.

  353. Mark King

    JL- I’m well aware of what is going on, on a trip to Poland my cousin was greeted with chants of al qaeda by 4 polish blokes because he has black hair, brown eyes and goes on a sunbed. I also witnessed two polish men fronting up an Asian family in the street broad daylight in Warsaw, I thought I was going to have to intervene on their part and I was only there for a stag do.

    Should we come out of the EU? I work in the building trade and all the brits and even some foreign lads are fed up with being undercut or having someone come in from an agency at half the price. these people have familys too and mortgages.

    For all that immigration is not my main concern, people are saying this was the wrong vote to show discontent? what difference would it make to vote one of 2 maybe 3 parties in? they are all bullet proof or so they thought. For good or bad this just might bring about something better.

    I have yet to see one article spell out a glowing future for being in the EU, just scare stories of how bad it will be out, that tells me they cannot tell the future. It may well turn out that the EU and UK governments have to change tack to survive yet.

  354. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    In my view what has happened over, say, the last 1 or 2 years regarding immigration into the EU has created a disturbing situation for several countries – notably Germany and also Sweden. We (in addition) started the ball rolling for ourselves when we let in so many Poles some 12 years ago and gave them too much rope.

    The outcome is that our voting out has scared the life out of the other EU countries as they can see the breaking up of the EU now this precedent has been created.

    Yes, I agree, it’s difficult to see the wood for the trees as far as the EU is concerned, and if you were to look for detailed positives it would be mainly to do with the thing that we actually advertised – “come and invest here and have access to Europe”. Companies are already starting to move to leave the UK because we’re moving out of the EU… and the big danger is that we do not own many crown jewels any more (i.e. sizeable companies in manufacturuing) that 40 years ago we’d be able to hold onto.

    But the EU experiment was given only 40 years. And times have changed dramatically in the last 40 years so we have become more entwined in the European system. It’s a bit late to leave now.

    There could have been a way forward in the EU is we’d tried harder. But it seems there was no-one of any vision to direct us that way. Where are our leaders these days?

    Unity (as I’ve said) is better than the alternative. Once you start this slippery slope there’s possibly no ending. And I see us (and Europe) getting into the mire very soon.

  355. steamer

    It all went wrong when the iron curtain came down, the SU had a lot of todays problems under control.
    Strange that Poles complain about racism, as Mark said they’re one of the most racist nations on Earth.
    The end of the EU, the end of the UK, the end of England, will anyone miss them ? very few, the establishment won’t suffer too much as in this country its WHO you know rather than WHAT you know, eg MarkThatcher.
    Sorry that the Labour Party has disintegrated, thats what happens when you allow Tories to not only join but to run it. They said Corbyn would never be leader, he pissed it, they said he’d never win a general election, he would have, but the champagne socialists from Islington have to have their moment. Corbyn should de-select all his opponents especially David Lammy who only scraped his seat with a tiny majority on a very low turnout.
    I can see the Tories imploding too although no matter how bad their situation is someone always bails them out.
    Tim Farron ?????????? at the Libs or whatever they’re call now has been slating Brexit, in the meantime he’s trying to find a convenient telephone box for their annual conference.
    Conclusion, Politics in this country is stuffed, we will now enter a period where fascism will take control, feudalism will return with a vengeance leaving us with apocalypse., Of course if Brexit is reversed we’ll all live happily ever after.
    Jen,
    Sorry, i thought Lionel was back at Glasto, CB Rae is a more than decent opener for him, should be a god gig, enjoy.

  358. Mark King

    JL- I do think the EU has gotten to big for its boots and is more about control than the betterment of those that live here, pretty much a mirror of our governments but voted in by the same selfish establishments. I’m no political genius it just does not sit right financial advantageous or not.

    One thing that was never asked for by any government of the EU, the ability to stop immigrants coming in and undercutting the native workforce. Of course its not the immigrants fault its a great way to get cheap labour for people to post even bigger profits for the investors and if that stops I will eat my hat. While the educated young are complaining of their position maybe they should give a thought to those who will be expected to except a substandard living so they can have sparkling future. Or they can create something better for everyone not just themselves, handed a lemon make lemonade

    We need massive changes in thinking and starting with breaking the biggest Egg may not be the worst. How many fears have you seen in a lifetime that have never materialised? I think this has along way to go yet and may work for the benefit of all.

    come on Ireland 🙂

  359. Mark King

    JL- On Racism, if legitimate concerns about culture clashes cannot be openly discussed for fear of being labelled racist ( usually aimed at white people it seems) then we will never move forward and fears will not be dispersed and new understanding will not happen. If I cannot say to Pierre why do the French generally not seem to like the British/English (or anyone 🙂 ) and He can’t answer me honestly without labelling how do we learn to adjust our world view? It appears we are trying to exist in union while not having honest Dialogue, won’t work for all IMO.

  360. John Lerwill

    Mark – we appear to differ mainly on the theme of “the EU is not working”. Well, have you noticed that I’ve said not much different? The whole issue of changing anything is that you do so from within … the idea of going it alone is utterly futile in this particular day and age. It’s the wrong time completely, and I do not welcome the idea of anarchy that Steamer seems to support. “May work for us all” is not on – *unless* we can agree what we want *as a nation* … and I can’t see that happening. In any case our politicians are too weak.

    As I see it, we’ve scared the EU. Good – that could well be a good thing. Now let’s have a re-vote and start again.

    As for Ireland … wahay! … I always like watching them and would love to see Robbie Brady at VP.

  361. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    In my view we Brits still (mostly) think we’re superior. That’s what rubs the others up the wrong way.

    In fact, I much prefer the attitudes of virtually any of the other western Europe countries.

    Let’s face it I only live here because of the Villa! 😉

  362. Mark King

    JL- oh and your right we need people of extraordinary vision, If you care to look in the world of young entrepreneurs you will see many cases of such individuals, they have principals too unlike the politicians.

  363. Mark King

    JL- Superior? really? seems to me we are made to think that we have caused all the worlds problems These days, while all other nations have never put a foot wrong. That thought persists in the European mindset because they choose to keep it just as much as we reinforce it. My Friend who worked in Europe for many years as an account manager once described what views his clients had of there neighbouring countries and it wasn’t positive, this Idea that they are all of one accord is a crock.

  364. Mark King

    JL- Mind you if we could sit out on balmy evenings eating and drinking with family in a beautiful Plaza we might be different. Maybe we should suggest a country swap with France and see how the rain effects them as an experiment? 😉

  365. steamer

    JL,
    Agree on –
    In my view we Brits still (mostly) think we’re superior. That’s what rubs the others up the wrong way.
    In fact, I much prefer the attitudes of virtually any of the other western Europe countries.
    But not –
    welcome the idea of anarchy that Steamer seems to support.

    Anything for a peaceful life with me but not being bullied and forced to live by violent ghettos being created by overspill. IMO multicultural societies don’t work and when one culture actually wants to wipe out another you’re in trouble.

  366. John Lerwill

    Mark: “seems to me we are made to think that we have caused all the worlds problems “

    There’s a bit of jealousy as we ruled the waves for so long, of course. But we didn’t cover ourselves with glory in our various occupations … not that the other colonialists did either.

    Good idea about subjecting the French to a change of weather, though! lol 🙂

  368. John Lerwill

    Steamer: ” IMO multicultural societies don’t work and when one culture actually wants to wipe out another you’re in trouble.”

    Perhaps, but what would you do? Ship ’em all out?

    Again, it’s a bit like UK and the rest of Europe … we have to find a common basis. It’s the lesson we’ve still to learn.

  369. B62 Villa

    A re vote will mean the end of democracy. The remain camp lost, the overall will of the British people was to leave, they need to accept it as Cameron has, regroup and find a way of moving forward . I’m already fed up of whinging middle class privileged people and uni kids constantly moaning like the world has ended. Statements like I’m not British I’m European!!! Absolute nonsense. The online petition is being shown up as being less than legit, it’s being hijacked from abroad

  371. steamer

    B62,
    Its pathetic, the English establishment has lost its bottle, the whining is embarrassing and that dickhead David Lammy ‘demanding a re-vote AT LEAST’ who the fuck does he think he is ? just a publicity seeker like that stupid Labour MP from Yardley. The current English psyche is something that i detest.

  372. John Lerwill

    B62: “The online petition is being shown up as being less than legit, it’s being hijacked from abroad”

    Apparently an inquiry is focused on the possibility that some names could be fraudulent – 77,000 signatures have already been removed.

    OK, so if there is some ‘rigging’ then it should be dealt with, of course.

    But at the moment there are still nearly 3.3 million signatures on it.

  373. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    A substantial majority of the u-50s voted ‘Remain’.

    The 30-year-olds have a potential *further* life-span of 60 years; 20 year-olds 70 years.

    Isn’t it fair their voice should be more properly heard?

    That would be the true meaning of demos kratia in my view.

  374. Mark King

    JL- Quite frankly no, why are they any more important by years left to live? Its depressing enough in a world that favours the young whether they have experience or not. Try getting a job at 50 plus unless you are in a unique position its not easy. Employment is no longer 50 years and retire its get a job where you can as you reinvent yourself. Except employers are slanted toward employing the younger and cheaper alternative that they see as go getting.

    My friend who has been a managing director did not fit in at any level (over 300-400 jobs applied f a year for 5 years!!!) so he went through teacher training to work part time for crap money teaching kids that expect good marks regardless of effort, and in a college that fudges the results to keep the funds coming. He’s now looking for funding to take a PHD .

  375. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Well I’m not going to debate any more – we’re going round and round I think.

    However, I’m surprised at your comment about younger people, which you obviously feel strongly about.

    I would have thought the answer is self-apparent. But if you disagree, so be it.

    BTW, it’s not unusual for people who have filled a higher position to have trouble in finding work. I’ve been watching it happen over 50 years, and I got caught by the disease as well.

  376. Mark King

    JL- I have nothing against young people I used to be one 😉 I suppose I feel a little put out that my view/vote should be subservient to theirs. Being handed things is rarely a good thing and to be honest hearing them say they won’t have the opportunities their parents had is laughable. That would put their parents in the 40-50 range? lets face it a lot get opportunities because their parents pay for it.

    I know a couple that have claimed to be separated so they can spend all the dads wage on their children’s private education, meanwhile she lives in a council house and claims everything she can by claiming he pays nothing and lives at his mums. The 2 kids? a couple of precocious brats.

    I must have been in that generation that got naff all given and had parents the same unless you worked for it.

  377. Mark King

    P.S. they aught to thank their lucky stars that they didn’t just get told to join the Army as I was.

    my conversation with the careers advisor, what do you want to do? me what is there? well you could join the Army.
    I loved History and Biology but neither of those would get me a factory job and nobody explained what I could actually do with those subjects as they were not much use in a factory, well now we have no factories. I’d take the youths place in a second, the worlds their oyster.

  382. John Lerwill

    Steamer,

    That Express article is quite a good one, and a Nordic FTA would make sense. In fact before the EU we used to be a member of EFTA – broadly a similar concept.

    However, the same world-wide problems remain. It’s not just a bowl for the fruit to be selected from, as some would make out.

  383. Mark King

    JL- You followed your dad in those days and his advice was to learn a trade and you’ll always have job, its was one of scarcity. If you had someone more worldly wise you might of got something a bit more adventurous. Today the Internet has changed all that.

    SWV- ELO were fantastic, earth wind and fire on later can’t wait

    Steamer- the long and winding road 😉

  384. steamers75

    MK
    watched E,W & F ( My Fav Band )and l can only say Thankfully l saw them a couple of times in the 70s . a good show but l found them struggling with the vocals last night , actually i saw some great bands , in the 70s , Bowie , Faces , Hollies , The Crusaders , Herbie Hancock, Al Green (fav Vocalist) Marvin Gaye , Stevie Wonder, Chic And Sister sledge , Parliament with Funkadelic, Genesis, stevie winwood , four tops and temptations , Diana Ross , madness, The Jam , pretenders, Kiss , ELO, SAHB, at wigan casino from 73/4 l saw Dean Parrish, Gloria jones , Solomon Burke and quite a few more Northern souls Giants there. then the 80s ……..

  390. DarrenO

    Very interesting debate on the EU referendum you guys are having, I could say I’m on the outside looking in but in reality the decision made has huge implications for my country and the Europe I want to be a part of.

    Britain is the 5th largest economy in the world, the European financial centre and a country (mostly by colonialism) that has been the go to destination for those seeking to better themselves. Whether you voted a determination that ‘going it alone’ (which is impossible because you need the rest of the world) or voted to remain, those facts about Britain remain. So any economic argument was/is largely redundant beyond slightly more favourable inter country trade deals.

    Unfortunately and this references the scale of the British economy the decision to leave has already wiped 2.5 trillion off the value of stocks globally, uncertainty will continue to impact for at least two years and longer until the terms of the exit are agreed. In the meantime, the mongrel nation referred to above will continue to receive immigrants.

    We mirror this in a much smaller scale and in fact most Irish people are shocked immigrants are even aware of us as a destination to make their lives better. We have the advantage over you in that we’ve travelled the world to make our lives better so are very sympathetic to immigrants but that doesn’t preclude us from having some very ignorant racists.

    We equally have the same political issues, a left wing that has moved to the centre to gain votes at the expense of its core values,which in turn has meant that people no longer trust them, a right wing that is far too heavily influenced by industry that it either ignores or poorly tackles social issues because they are expensive to resolve.

    I’d suggest that you are well within your rights to seek out and identify economic migrants who fail to or refuse to contribute to society but remember you had waves of Irish immigration in the 1840/50s and again in the 1950s/60s and they became a valuable contributing section of the community but would have been an immediate drain on resources.

    There was a mention from Steamer i think of Cromwell, I do wonder if history as it is thought in schools only refers Cromwell’s overthrow of the monarchy and the establishment of a parliament when Cromwell has a very different legacy in Ireland and is a figure of hatred to this day.

    To football matters and huge pride in the Irish team, the inevitable happened in the second half with France coming out quickly and we got found out but boy the journey was worth it onwards to the WC qualifiers.

    Not long now to a new season UTV

  391. John Lerwill

    Darren,

    Totally concur re: EU debate. And even now people here are making snide remarks about Scotland and NI being too small to worry about. Amazing singe-sightedness. There was a special Question Time last night on the Beeb and held in Brum, where people here were making comments like that. I think I want to become Irish!

    Congratulations on your country’s efforts in the Euros. I enjoyed yesterday’s match, and was disappointed that Ireland couldn’t raise their game in the second half. But it was a damn good try!

  392. steamer

    Sorry DOR,
    It was a few years back when i studied Cromwell and i forgot about the havoc and terror he caused in Ireland. Not really into British history at all.

    Is everyone on holiday at VP ? the lack of signings of the required type is unsettling. Morrison is Saggy with ability, trouble. Talking of Saggy a couple of photos have emerged of a slim line version, whether they’re old snaps or he actually has attended weight watchers i don’t know, and frankly don’t care, he’s been a disruptive disgrace at VP for years and should never be allowed in the ground again, he’s a disgrace, yet some fans still want to give him a chance, durrrr, the modern football fan.

  393. steamer

    Reading statements by someone at the FA who reckons Hodgson is a “great manager’ mmm lets get a referendum organised on who the FANS want, damn, the London fans would want the result overturned and Hodgson reinstated, as the saying goes ‘keep it in London.’

  394. steamers75

    JL
    I will have you know l have a Temperence 7 lp original. Also Al Bowley. Bought a Count Bassie lp saturday in a charity shop. Steamer will back me up although my great love is old reggae .soul .northern soul . I do have a very varied collection of music . And l have found that on Radio 3 late night they have some very diverse musicians and l would love to get hold of some of the stuff played but its finding it. Runtins gave me some great stuff and steamer knows his bands even naming the all the band members . Steamer said l have an Eclectic collection !!!! Whatever that means. I have heard the word before on the radio used by some of these so called music experts jo whilley springs to mind oh well back to filling the skip up before it rains.

  395. DarrenO

    No need for apologies Steamer, I’ve a lot of family in England (of Irish parentage) but they’re only aware of Cromwell in terms of overthrowing the monarchy so just considering how easy it is to teach one view of history and while seen as a hero in England, is thought of very differently here.

  396. Trinity

    It would seem dodgy to have another referendum. It would mean have referendums until the “right” and “correct” vote is arrived at. The right vote according to who, exactly? Didn’t David Cameron say that there will be no second referendum? Why have a referendum in the first place? just because the result voted for by a majority wasn’t the one desired by certain sectors of society, it doesn’t mean the result wasn’t fair and legitimate in a democratic society, anyway.

  399. John Lerwill

    Trin: ” just because the result voted for by a majority wasn’t the one desired by certain sectors of society”

    Pardon me saying, that is not the real point.

    The re-referendum (which I agree probably won’t happen) petition has really been triggered because those with the most working years left have been left high and dry in the vote – and to a large extent by the very people who voted ‘in’ in 1975.

    In other words those who voted ‘in’ in 1975 (when two thirds voted ‘in’) have decided to leave after the UK has become non-independent by virtue of selling its crown jewels and creating a deeply engrained links with Europe (science inter-action and security being two prime examples, as well as priviliged trading conditions within the EU *and* establishing ourselves as a major financial centre, now about to be watered down).

    What we are supposed to do now we have no major businesses to speak of that we own I wait to see. Especially if Nissan and others decide to move into the EU proper, as some of the banks are indicating they will do.

  400. John Lerwill

    ST75,

    You have a Temperance 7 LP??????????? Wow; that must be worth a bit?

    No, I wasn’t trying to disparage your stated preferences and depth of interest in music at all. Your depth of interest is clearly much greater than mine, though folk, jazz and classical are broadly my own interests.

    But there were some absolute nuggets of musicians we saw in the 60s/70s/80s that we tend to gloss over – especially Diz Disley, Stephane Grappelli (except he was French!), Julian Bream and John Williams. I don’t see anyone of their ilk anymore.

    Anyhow, I have wonderful memories of having seen those four in concert, as well as the Basies and Ellingtons of the jazz world.

    Diz Disley, btw, died 6 years go aged 78 and penniless.

  402. Trinity

    John
    Maybe you’re right about the future. We’ll see. The result of the referendum was decisive, though.
    Do you think it possible that many of those who voted “in” in 1975 might now think joining the EU was a mistake in the first place?
    Do you think Britain is better now than it was 40 years ago?

  403. John Lerwill

    I am truly sorry, Trin, but I can’t agree that the vote was “decisive” at all.

    A margin of only 3.8 percentage points doesn’t sit well with me at all, especially as two *countries* of the four decided to “Remain”. And though I know those countries are much smaller population-wise, they have contributed enormously to the wealth of the total GB & NI enterprise.

    Yes – of course those who voted in ’75 think it must have been a mistake, otherwise they wouldn’t have voted that way, would they? But the point is they voted in 1975 to give the next generations a better chance and now – those generations having seen benefits of some kind in staying in – they’re taking away the right of the generations they created!! How bizarre!!

    Trinity, in 1975 I mainly remember an untidy Birmingham that has now been refreshed, partly with help from the EU – and a general stodginess that manifested itself horribly in the Winter Of Discontent in 1979.

    That the quality in life has probably degenerated over those 40 years is more (i.m.o.) to do with the kinds of government we’ve had – starting with Thatcher, though Callaghan’s softly-softly approach to the unions in the 1970s probably really started our demise.

  404. John Lerwill

    In fact, I said to my wife on the morning of the referendum wasn’t at least 10 percentage points (55-45) either way, then it would probably be an unsatisfactory result.

    I believe we have a very split country. It’s going to take a lot of skill to re-unify it (perhaps it never was unified – particularly since 2010), and I don’t believe we have leaders to do that.

  405. Heroes-and-Villans

    Villa and wed have bid for McCormack apparently. Would be a huge signing. Xia has said a strong striker a priority.

    Dean Asworth could be new footy director type. Appointment in 2 weeks. At the fa was at baggies….highly rated. All players coming back from holly bobs now so stand by your beds.

  406. runtings

    bleedin referendum

    the nation has spoken so it is now time to get on with sorting out trade deals ect
    it’s not the end of the world and i am sure everything will be alright on the night

    Hoping for one or two big signings for us this week , though RDM did say he was going to wait until everyone came back to training before make up his mind about who stays and who goes

    not seen much of Glastonbury yet but will catch the elo set for sure – i did see Muse and there set was sizzling – great live band even though i can’t get into there studio albums

  407. Heroes-and-Villans

    not seen elo set but they say it was decent.

    Hopefull RDM will build a solid spine for us at last. We need Elphick types in all areas of the pitch. McCormack up top would be outstanding and then its just gk and mid. Tis why the pantomime link is not good….gk is crucial, need a solid confident pair of hands there.

  408. steamer

    Remember the Temperance Seven, slightly earlier than one of my fave bands The Bonzo Dog Dooh Dah Band who inspired Monty Python, Paul Merton, Stephen Fry, Ade Edmondson & Phill Jupitus among others, oh Really ? no O’Reilly sorry just a comment from one of their LP covers. Some members formed the Rutles and the brilliant Vivian Stanshall created Sir Henry at Rawlinsons Hall.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-SKxKYcMMA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa4gPaQjC1M
    Comedy at its finest. The Dinner Party cracks me every time.

  410. steamer

    JL,
    Kenny Ball was a great entertainer wasn’t he ? think he died only a few months ago.
    Saw a doc many years ago about Django Reinhardt a Belgian gypsy who i believe only had three fingers on one hand, iv’e never heard a guitar played like that. As you know he played a lot with Grappeli in the 40’s & 50’s.
    The Disley vid was spoilt by a screeching over the guitars, if he was potless why didn’t his brother Walt give him a few bob ?

  411. John Lerwill

    Steamer: “Saw a doc many years ago about Django Reinhardt a Belgian gypsy”

    Ah, he was the one that Diz Disley emulated , and also how he came to work with Grappelli. Disley was the one who re-started Grappelli’s career, such was Disley a fan of the Hot Club of Paris.

  413. Mark King

    evening folks

    Dor- No wonder you feel at home in Europe you where invaded by peoples from Spain (Iberia) first then Belgium/France and became Celtic. So did England at least by the celts, then the Romans who invited in the Angles as a standing army when they buggered off back to Rome to repel barbarians. That left the celts with no army wide open for the already there angle Saxons. Then we had the Nordic invasions as you did, We eventually became England but the Normans who where Vikings given lands in France had a claim and bobs your uncle. Its looks like we have been in and out of Europe for centuries or its been in and out of us 😉

    Trin- I think if we had a re-vote it would be far from a done thing for remain. I have spoken to plenty since to gauge the feeling and lots of no voters since have said I would of voted out at least 6 now in 4 days. Also the hysteria over the FTSE, the pound etc would most definitely sway some to now remain even though they were told things could be rough for a while. If the Government had held honest dialogue with people who knows the result. Plenty did not understand most of it and were confused by all the tooing and frowing and didn’t vote.

    One thing I will say is I have spoken to plenty of strangers over the last few weeks and I would say a good 80% expressed a wish to vote out. That’s a good 40+ odd people from all walks,trades, ages, jobs and business owners.

    St75 I’ve recorded EW&F not seen it yet, well gel mate you have seen some classics there.

    Spain are woeful

  414. Mark King

    I see Meryvn King has said the government had overdone the fear/worry aspect and now the chancellor has forgotten about that emergency budget he said was priority if we came out. You cannot trust either side it seems

  415. steamer

    I spoke to only one person who said they were voting to stay, on top of that out of the folk who i spoke to not a single one knew anyone else who was voting to stay, were the figures massaged to favour the stayers ? After all we all suspected that they had to win at all costs.
    Looks like if the EU doesn’t disintegrate then the UK could virtually name their terms for staying, who would the young ‘uns blame then though ? glad i’m knocking on the thought of these gobshites reigning over us scares me.
    Corbyn still way ahead in the polls, surprised that JessPhillips deserted the party, NOT, we’ll really miss her input.

  416. John Lerwill

    Mark/Steamer,

    No matter how many people we might individually engage with, all the polls show that the u-45s or u-50s (depends on the poll) indicates that if the result had rested on that group we’d still be in the EU.

    Sometimes stats don’t lie.

  417. steamer

    Mark,
    Have you seen the joint concert they did with Chicago, Bill Champlin was on keyboards for Chicago he wrote E,W & F ‘s big hits. Its on Youtube, full concert.

  418. John Lerwill

    Mark: “One thing I will say is I have spoken to plenty of strangers over the last few weeks and I would say a good 80% expressed a wish to vote out.”

    Actually it looks as though this long-accepted fact is not quite fact.

    It seems there was a huge cataclysm in the form of a comet that occurred around 530-550 AD that whisked across Scotland and down through England – burning everything in its wake – and then finally blew up in Bolivia.

    It meant that England’s population was decimated and left the country open for the lot across the North Sea to come in.

    A lot of history that has been thought to be fact is now being seriously questioned. Dendrochronolgy shows something seriously happened about 536 and you can find a number of sources about that cataclysm by searching on “cataclysm across england 6th c”.

  419. runtings

    Love the English history lesson post and comments about it mark
    I don’t check for politicians even though there is always the odd few that actually want to help the common few — i did like Tony Benn

    I think the common people in most if not all countries are fair and decent but unfortunately the world is sett up for the benefit of the few not the many and the powers that be divide and rule

    it’s tuff for a good politician to make meaningful change in such a system

  420. John Lerwill

    Sorry, Mark – wrong quote from you!

    I should have referred to “then the Romans who invited in the Angles as a standing army when they buggered off back to Rome to repel barbarians. That left the celts with no army wide open for the already there angle Saxons”

  421. Mark King

    Steamer- Sounds like an unlikely mixture mate

    JL- Just saying as a mate said exactly the same and it has been my experience. From people I have talked to I do get the feeling plenty did not vote out as a stigma of racism had begun to be attached to it, and did not vote at all instead.

  422. steamer

    Their comments remind me of the Edward G. Robinson film Soylent Green. I think euthanasia will be legalised in the near future probably at 45. We were always told to respect our elders & betters because of the knowledge and experience they gained in their lifetimes, but it seems that they know it all while in their teens now, all this with a crepe education system, ain’t life grand. Will Beckham make PM, Bob Geldof or Damon Albarn ? i doubt if the combined IQ’s wouldn’t make double figures.

  424. John Lerwill

    Talking of teenagers, it’s interesting that 16 and 17 year-olds, having been given the right to vote in the Scottish referendum, were denied it in this latest referendum.

    Not exactly consistent is it?

  425. steamer

    Well said Runtingz, i’d say near impossible, strange, Corbyn seems a good ‘un yet the red Tories are out to finish him.
    JL,
    That would be a good story in Gladiator 11. I think those barbarians settled in Small Heath.

  426. John Lerwill

    Mark: “I do get the feeling plenty did not vote out as a stigma of racism had begun to be attached to it, and did not vote at all instead.”

    We could be here all night talking about such possibilities, including the numbers that now regret voting for Brexit.

  428. Mark King

    JL- fascinating will look that up

    on the vote thing no but It does wind people up when Scotland are desperate to lose us while we were still in the EU, I wonder whether Germany/France would be bothered without us attached? another mouth to feed.

  430. John Lerwill

    Steamer: “I think euthanasia will be legalised in the near future probably at 45.”

    Only a few days ago I read an interesting account about the fabled Lemuria, that its inhabitants decided (and controlled) when they should pass on.

    Once decision was made (it is said) they dug their own gaves, then sat in it in meditation mode and simply made “the transition” whilst in meditation. The community would then bury the body as it sat.

    In fact some ancient Buddhists are known to have “passed on” in a similarly controlled manner.

  435. Mark King

    JL- As the chancellor has realised if we keep talking things down that where it will go, happens all the time, unfortunately Daves done a runner.

  439. steamer

    I’d love to know which bright spark thought of replacing a manager who won multiple titles in Italy Spain & Germany, Multiple Champions Lge, Multiple World Championships etc with a bloke who’s playing career consisted of 50 odd games for Kingstonian, Dyke ?

  441. Canadian Villan

    Not too bad i guess, glad my Dad was a Welsh immigrant from Rhyl in 47, so i can still claim allegiance to a team with some pride. Cant believe some of the team selection and substitutions Woy has made.

  445. steamer

    Been saying it for years,English footy is built on BS, look at the fees English players go for, look at the wages, look at the arrogance and yet the papers are suggesting the likes of Pardew !!!! There is NO English manager anywhere near good enough to manage the national side.

  448. proxopera

    Jesus lads , wtf was that ? I’m speechless!

    As for the doom mongering , I think economically , the uk will regret the brexit decision but heads up you’ve faced worse and come through .

    look at Icelan,,,,,oh sorry , maybe not the right comparison.

  449. James Gill

    I can’t believe that result
    Only player that tried vardy and he was only sub
    Why does every English manager pick players from spuds Kane was shocking,drinkwater one best midfielder last season but no pick dier and ali
    If we Ireland had got English draws in group stages,and final stages
    Poland and Germany in last 8 ,
    Italy and Belgium in last 8 and both look real good
    Come on Wales and iceland

  450. Trinity

    Thanks for sharing your views about leaving the EU. It’s good to hear views from real people on the ground rather than just relying on the media.
    I won’t say anything about Iceland. At least the rugby in Aus went well for England.

  451. DarrenO

    Hate to say this but for too long England has flattered to deceive, there is something wrong with the psychology of the team that could allow continued group qualification for major tournaments but fail so badly when it comes to a crunch game.

    Pride, Spirit, Determination and a little bit of skill beat a team of overpaid primadonnas, These guys face week in, week out teams who sit back and invite you to break them down but at international level, there was no coherent plan to break Iceland down. Attempts to play thru the middle met an Icelandic wall, attempts to play out wide resulted in very poor crosses, dead ball situations were wasted time and again.

    We and it looks like Iceland too, play to a system that works for the 11 and the remaining 12 slot in, there is no accommodation of players like Rooney. The psychological difference as I see it, is when we play its like the last international game we’ll ever play so give it everything, because you qualify regularly for tournaments, there’s a safety next of there’s always next time.

    And completely agree with Steamer, we’ve been fed this BS about the Prem being great, that narrative has changed in the media recently to being a great global product but what about the main element that sells it, the players, they’ve become millionaires before they have a career, they have no sense of responsibility to their club or its fans and consider themselves grown up when they get their first tattoo.

    11 English players from the championship would have carried more pride going into the game, while as an Irishman, I couldn’t listen to another year of 1966 and ‘football coming home’, intl football needs a strong England side.

    Oh and everything is 2 for 1 in Iceland today 🙂

  452. southwestvillan

    The only surprise is that people are saying they can”t believe how bad England was, blimey they have been playing like that for years, the only consolation I had was not sitting and watching it.
    England fans have always been lulled into a false sense of security by being told we have the best league in the world but they failed to see that out of the top hundred players last season probably only two were English, the premier would be nothing without the foreign influx of players.
    The worst player over the last four tournaments has been Rooney and Woy made him captain, he is lauded as one of the best players to have played for England because of his record of scoring goals in meaningless friendlies and no mark international games, we are a terrible side and have been for years and will be for years to come, take the best manager in the world and he still wouldn’t make this lot a winning team so they may as well stick with the establishment manager in Southgate, he is in the FA system and will get the job although he is crepe.
    We got beat by a nation with the population of Sandwell all because they had a team with guts and wanted to play for their country, their manager gave them a plan and a system and they made it work through sheer tenacity and hard work, England had nothing.

    SWV

  453. DarrenO

    Hi Mark

    “No wonder you feel at home in Europe you where invaded by peoples from Spain (Iberia) first then Belgium/France and became Celtic.”

    Spanish invasion was during the Bronze age and it’s this invasion that brought the Gaels (i.e. Celts) to Ireland from areas in Spain/Portugal that were pre-Latin, only the music survives with that Gaelic sound in Northern Spain.

    The Vikings came in 9th century but gradually assimilated into Ireland
    The Romans never bothered but did look to bring the Celtic Church under Rome
    In 1169 Dermot McMurrough-Kavanagh ‘borrowed’ the wife of Tiernan O’Rourke, in the fight Dermot went to England and invited them to protect him and then began a period in Irish history known as ‘ah feck’

    Don’t remember any Belgians or French coming over unless you mean the Normans coming from England

  454. John Lerwill

    SWV: “We got beat by a nation with the population of Sandwell all because they had a team with guts and wanted to play for their country”

    Yep. It’s kinda repetition of Leicester’s success last season, too, isn’t it? And England’s performance was a reminder of Villa;s display of how *not* to approach matches.

    Has anyone noticed this sea-change developing? The realisation that – after all – to be a success you have to work for it, *and* not have inflated ideas of yourself and your worth. It’s clearly a hard lesson to learn for quite a few.

  455. steamer

    Ta for that Darren,
    You learn stuff on this blog every day.

    I think its too late to save footy, when you look at a mediocrity like Pogba moving for 125m its gone way, way past obscene.
    The entire FA hierarchy should resign, they put in place, and supported a clueless knob who selected players who had failed time and time again. Villa had a close shave there because that clown from the FA wanted to make him our manager, proving yet again that anyone employed by them is clueless.
    I suppose the whole charade starts again, just waiting for the first “this squad is young enough and talented enough to win in Russia.”
    Things to laugh at –
    Southgate, Pardew, Neville, Hoddle as potential England bosses,
    Raheem Sterling at 50m
    John Stones at 40m and he can’t even get on the pitch. I read last week that Barcelona should sign him for next season if they want to win the Champs Lge !!!
    Virtually the entire country is deluded about our footballing capabilities , time to stepback and assess how we can improve and it doesn’t include English managers, coaches or pen pushing idiots.

  457. southwestvillan

    Southgate should never be allowed near England for missing that penalty and then going on to make a pizza commercial making money out of his inept ability to put the ball between the posts from 12 yards, I wonder how that would have gone down in Colombia.

    SWV

  458. Archie

    JL
    Just been looking at the Temperence Seven link you posted, John Lerwill June 27, 2016 at 7:46 am.
    I note there’s eight performers in the band.so which one was the lush;-)

  459. Mark King

    DOR- I only meant it in the sense of the Gauls, Gaul encompassed a lot of Europe and Britain at one point.

    JL- I think the modern obsession with individuals and everyone being special has seeded a lot of the selfishness we see, but if you are meaning we should continue with EU under the guise of co-operation I’m not convinced. There is a lot to be said about having an intelligent society otherwise voting becomes an emotional affair as we have seen. The disturbing habit of government bringing in people in to get their votes by becoming surrogate parents, (see Blair and the papers that revealed this strategy) should not happen, its not isolated to this country by the way. Its not like we need the IQ to drop further, education is doing that for us 😉

    On England, The so called best players do not always make the best team, we shoehorn the captain?? into midfield play centre forwards out wide and took no real wingers and had a crap defence yet left Drinkwater at home. Woy fecked it up but what a team effort!!! not. Why do these managers end up loyal to wrong players? Joe hart had a mare and bless him has said so, the others said they tried, oh good.

    Iceland by the way did beat Holland twice I think in qualification and were unbeaten so fare play to them.

  462. steamer

    Mark,
    Grealish is 100 times better than any of those mf’s. Black should be ashamed about ignoring him last season.
    Have you noticed the skip has been re-branded – St. Andrews Stadium. I also think its funny how their old timers team is called Birmingham City Legends.

  466. steamer

    I was only joking about Sherwood and England, Redknapp isn’t though. It just confirms what iv;e always thought, Redknapp is a moron. List of England managers
    Winterbottom
    Ramsay
    Mercer
    Revie
    Robson
    Taylor (P).
    Wilkinson
    Venables
    Keegan
    Taylor
    McClaren
    Erikson
    Capello
    Hoddle.
    14, 8 played for London clubs, think as managers they won 1 Lge and 3 FA Cups between the 14. To say the judgement of the FA is suspect is an understatement especially considering that they wouldn’t give it to the best manager to grace British footy, Brian Clough.

  468. John Lerwill

    Mark: “if you are meaning we should continue with EU under the guise of co-operation I’m not convinced”

    I don’t know how you elicited that interpretation, Mark! 😉

    Anyway, my final comment on the EU matter (pending anything dramatic that might happen) is that *as an ideal* we can only progress by mankind being in unity, and hence is why I saw Brexit as being non-constructive. There’s no plan for what happens next (is there?), so if you vote to withdraw without a recognisable plan than it must be construed as a hot-headed result. A jump completely into the dark with nothing really to back it up as a sensible option.

    That’s not to say that I think we (mankind) should go forward in blind adherence to nonsense leadership, but I think we should be thinking now (the result already having been determined) of how we can negotiate with the EU (taking advantage of the situation of other members that are shaky) to get it into much better shape.

    Yes, I’m an idealist, but it seems a much better route than potential anarchy.

  469. runtings

    Heard a comment from fabio cappello’s assistant during his England reign saying English players struggle to take tactical instruction and they would get them to do rather than think before doing

    I think we do have some good players however tactically i can see how other teams set them selves up but struggle to work out what our style of play is and it seems the players are not sure what they are all meant to be doing and just wing it

    i am sceptical about Southgate but have been slightly impressed with his tactics for the unders and what we need now is someone that has a formula and will stick too it

    also someone that doesn’t care about reputation or standing in the game and won’t bring there favotates i.e Milner roo but the best components available at the time for the job

    When did Roo become a midfield player maker FFS – he has something to offer up front but not midfield — no wingers even though we qualified playing with wingers but Woy thought it better to bring stikers to play there to accommodate his mates

  470. Mark King

    JL- I am quite happy that the remain and exit sides have been shown themselves to be incompetent fools scrambling for votes. The murder of an MP and the scramble to capitalize on it was enough for me, the media manipulation by all was incredible, I hope we wake up we have so much to offer.

    To think this lot would of taken us forward if we had stayed in scares me more. The UK are one of only 2 countries to meet its 0.7% of GDP for foreign aid under EU directives as a bunch of world hating racists we are quite compassionate really 😉

  471. Mark King

    Runtingz- I agree mate the U 17-18- 19 etc are beginning to tick and I think we may have to promote a manager/coach from there. I do however think Big Sam would do ok given the chance. Foreign players are taught tactics from Knee high, the French lads we brought in last season struggled to adapt to a bunch of brits with little clue the captain being the worst I have seen.

    steamer- Not promoting Clough was the biggest travesty to befall the English game, shocking

  472. John Lerwill

    Runtings: “Heard a comment from fabio cappello’s assistant during his England reign saying English players struggle to take tactical instruction and they would get them to do rather than think before doing”

    I think we can now more clearly see what happened in the days of Dr. Josef Venglos at VP! 😉

  473. steamer

    JL,
    Not being in government the Brexit mob didn’t need a plan because they wouldn’t be able to implement it, thats Cameron and Osbornes job, they have both denied that responsibility, behaving like children while confusion reigns suits the restaurant bashers. They should have had a contingency plan put in place but in their arrogance, typical London, they misjudged the mood of the people, bet they’re still picking up the wages though.

  474. steamer

    Runtingz,
    Just before Richards signed an Italian commentator from Florence remarked that tactically he hadn’t a clue, he may adequate as a fb but as a cd he’s a liability. Even the foreign commentators know more than our internationals.

  475. Mark King

    Steamer- As I said before the exit should of been discussed at the same time as Cameron was trying to get concessions surely? I suppose he just sat there and said thank you every time they kicked him. What a bargaining tool if backed with conviction and if we voted out at least we would know the score. As for childish, MEPs booing Forage and asking him why he is here? don’t like bullying even of a bully. The reaction has been terrible considering the vote was so close.

  476. steamer

    FA’s Martin Glenn –
    We’re looking for the best man for the job. I’m not ruling out a non-English manager. But it is too early to talk about names. We’re looking for the best person, not just the best Englishman.

    The best person ? Roy Hodgson got the job.
    Glenn said Hodgson was ‘great manager’ two days ago.

    Obviously this man shouldn’t be trusted to select the next manager.

  477. steamer

    Mark,
    The entire country is confused, we don’t seem to produce leaders any more, just low intellect self serving bullies who do what bullies always do when they get one back, run.

  478. steamer

    Martin Glenn –
    Results have been getting better. Qualification was better. The style of football has been better, more attacking and expressive.

  479. steamer

    Just seen the clip of Schteve McClaren slagging off Iceland and saying how good Engurland were… and Iceland score, its pure comedic genius, if Schteve was hoping for a decent job then he’s gonna be disappointed.

  480. steamer

    I know footy’s all about opinions but the BM’s best Villa team since WW11 must have been put together by a ten year old, no Blanchflower, Taylor, Edwards, Dixon, Hitchens, Gidman, Gray, Little but Stan Lynn, Mortimer, Yorke.

  481. John Lerwill

    Steamer: “Not being in government the Brexit mob didn’t need a plan because they wouldn’t be able to implement it…”

    Well, you see I don’t go with that one bit. To get *any* project to work you have to have an idea of what is to come next if you win the contract.

    To expect Cameron/Osborne to carry through the Brexit decision is hardly realistic; especially as Cameron didn’t negotiate strongly enough last time round. What chance would he get of obtaining a strong deal for the UK for a cause he didn’t believe in?

    The Brexiters were actually disunited (UKIP vs the rest) and couldn’t help to implement a strategy if they tried, in government or not. All they had was pipe-dreams and the Union Jack – which could well be dis-Union Jack fairly soon.

    It’s a mess. The only accomplishment Brexit has achieved is in stoking up the fires and getting the political class to be worried, which is a plus I will give credit on. But otherwise we only have the potential for more chaos and more hardship for the poor in the 3 to 5 years until the exit is accomplished. Except that 2017 will soon arrive and is expected to make the situation even more cloudy and will make this discussion meaningless I think…

  482. John Lerwill

    BTW, perhaps people don’t realise that article 50 gives a 2 year negotiation period but that it can only be extended by the OK of all the other 27 countries. I can’s see the UK finalising a satisfactory deal in 2 years and if the 27 others don’t want to talk anymore at that point then we’re out and that’s it, with a deal that may not give us much.

  483. John Lerwill

    PPS And we can only achieve a Norway-type deal if we accept that free movement of people is still adhered to. In other words, if the worry is migration, then Brexit will not have achieved a solitary thing.

  484. runtings

    All brexite seems to have done is got the backs of the rest of europe up and its turning into brexshyte
    as i said before i have little time for politicians – steamer yes corbyn is in the Ben mold and it is shocking how the media are cutting him down at every angle – but that’s the least that happens to anyone gaining mainstream influence and dare to stand for the people over the bankers

    i did say bankers didn’t I

  485. Mark King

    JL- I wish you would spill the beans on 2017 😉

    At the rate Bill gates is going with his GMO and his vaccination program half the world will be gone soon enough. One of my least favourite EU policies the farming subsidies that allow farmers to not grow food and compensate them for the little they do get off of the supermarkets. I think 2017 could well see a civil war in the USA, can’t wait to see who gets in there 😉 there having Hispanic supremacist problems in California at the Trump Rallies, Whole worlds about to pop.

  488. Mark King

    JL- I’m not sure Immigrations the problem Quality of immigration is more like it along with the constraints on who we can trade with in the wider world.

    2008 showed us who runs the country/world and its not the governments

    I would like to see a group of businessmen /experts in various field put together not just politicians to form a plan to move forward. Then have an election and they can campaign on who can best deliver. Maybe a permanent group of advisor’s with transparency for the electorate to help run the country plus referendums as the Swiss do.

  489. steamer

    Dietmar Hamann slams the Premier League after England lose to Iceland
    The 52-year-old says English fans have been mislead by the global brand
    Hamann thinks that Germany and Spain have leagues with more quality
    He also thinks that John Stones and Ross Barkley are the only two players that the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Barcelona would want

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3663861/Liverpool-legend-Dietmar-Hamann-labels-Premier-League-fraud-s-average-hyped-paid-players.html#ixzz4CtuuxSMP
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  490. Mark King

    Runtingz- Yes I think something big is brewing

    I read earlier that Nato’s top general has told the senate that Putin is bombing Syria to create the refugee’s to destabilise Europe, he can see no other reason in the pattern of their bombing.

  491. steamer

    Nato is a tool of the US, they are just puppets. John Kerry is determined to start a war with Russia, but basically, anyone will do, the nature of the beast.

  492. steamer

    Perhaps that’s what Johns cryptic comment about 2017 meant, the end of the world is nigh, its certainly getting more dangerous so all it needs is one nations leader to go loony tunes and the mushrooms appear.

  493. John Lerwill

    Steamer – No I don’t believe for one moment that end of the world is nigh … BUT the conditions may be for some time that it may feel as though it is. And it will take a few years to sort itself out.

    Mark – Sorry, immigration *is* a main issue, particularly on the council estates. They’ve been interviewed and clearly say so. And as I’ve said, if we go for a Norway-type deal with the EU, we have to accept free movement as now – no change.

  494. runtings

    Equally i think the monster that maggie created which is moving social housing to the private sector has taken hold and now you can work hard and have difficulty owning a house and pay huge fees to rent—— along side that new houses are not being built socially for the working class

  495. John Lerwill

    Runtings – oh, yes, Maggie’s dream of a Tory country came very close to success. But as the concept is so illogical it was doomed to failure – except it has left a lot of people in difficulty because of that policy.

  496. Mark King

    JL- Ok it might be the issue for those deeply effected by it like those you mentioned but I would say a large percentage have voted for democratic reasons. Don’t forget the media will do whatever they can to focus this on race.Maybe the answer is to build some slums in Chelsea and Belgravia? Spoke to a chap in his 70’s yesterday in a very nice village and a four bed detached he said he voted out for democracy. I would say that is likely for the majority of the elderly and then you will have those effected by unfair competition for work.

  497. DarrenO

    Hi Mark

    “I’m not sure Immigrations the problem Quality of immigration”

    I assume you mean the immigration experience, what were the tea and biscuits like when going thru immigration 🙂

    Immigration is absolutely a key issue for your country, picked up on a guy yesterday called Akala (speaking on a show hosted by Frankie Boyle) and he was very enlightening on how the language used on immigration promotes racism. (check him out if you get a chance)

    Typical example is white emigrants from the UK are called ex-pats but if your skin colour is darker as an immigrant, your race or religion is referred to.

    And whether its an agenda by a certain side in the argument, I’m seeing more and more videos of open hostility to people assumed to be not British when being British or more correctly English no longer means white Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

    Hi Steamer

    I watched that piece live on RTE and Hamann is absolutely correct, thankfully we have TV punditry that allows that freedom, I flicked to UTV only to see low level rhetoric from Dixon/Wright and Crouch and very little articulate discussion on the issue, I heard Shearer had a go at Hodgson later on BBC

  498. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    I’m sure a lot did vote for democracy, but that fact is (as Darren states) there has been a lot of invective and worse thrown at people perceived to be immigrants this last few months.

    Anyhow … there’s a brave new world with us and …


    *************************
    A new article posted!

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  499. Mark King

    DOR- I take your points but mate but what else do we call them? do people in Bangladesh call Bangladeshi’s who live here expats?? I don’t know. I seriously don’t know how you would express it otherwise. I’m sure most polish don’t call themselves brits and I cannot imagine anyone would lose connection with there races place of origin totally no matter where they end up living. Half of America thinks its Irish 😉 I would like to know what the English can call themselves now as it now seems to be attached to racism, even I feel that if I call myself English! so it works both ways. Usually though I refer to myself as mark 🙂

    I must be immune to all that as I have seen none of that where I live and I travel around for work. Usually you would find at least one that spouts crap but no I haven’t seen it yet(except in Poland) and hope I don’t. As I have stated I have spoken to many with varying reasons non of them referred to anyone as less than human, Nobody even said its their fault as they cannot blame someone wanting to better themselves economically. Maybe its been out there all along and now people are looking out for it more? I don’t condone any of it.

    I do hear from friends how their kids are set upon by Asian kids at school if there’s a fall out with a gang of lads arrive, you would think they would settle it individually? One bloke started a Taxi firm in Banbury he was from Bangladesh and the local firms are Pakistani lads, they went down there and smashed his office up and that was that. Its not pleasant but it happens. Not long ago A group of Asian youths 16-18 years old were setting upon blokes walking home after the pub for fun it appears, two of my mates who go boxing layed a few out and got arrested while they walked away? Another friend who is about 6’7″ and 20 stone was set on in a local park on his way home by 20 Asian lads. Is this racism or gangs??

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