It’s really a sideshow to the matter at hand, but tonight we’ll finally see Jack Grealish playing at Villa Park as an opponent. Perhaps. Understandably, there’s a bit of secrecy about fitness, and having been out, one would suppose that Grealish won’t be part of the starting lineup. But, the larger point on this is that it will be the moment that disappointment, anger, and well wishes coalesce in person.

Various statements and comments in the last couple days have fanned some of the dormant flames, which is unfortunate, but probably inevitable. Applaud, boo, ignore…everyone’s choice. I’d like to think that we, as a club and community, can summon up a bit of class, whether or not we really feel like being magnanimous. However he left, he did a lot for Villa, and it usually helps in life to focus our energy on the good things.

Moving on, with or without Jack, the real matter is City, and that they pose a considerable challenge whoever’s on the pitch. Gerrard hasn’t had much real time in, but he knows everything he needs to. Getting it across to the players, well, based on hearing Steven talk, I think that’ll be down to whether they can take things on board. He’s direct and serious and all about setting a tone. Shouldn’t be much confusion deriving from him.

We know City will boss possession. We know Villa will have to be disciplined on and off the ball. We know that unless City have a poor game, Villa will have to be at their best, whatever that is at this moment, to give a good account. Even if City are poor, Villa probably have to be at their best to get a result.

In situations like this, it has to be a big plus that Gerrard’s been at the same level and knows what it takes. That should give the squad confidence in the game plan and they’ll know the expectations will be high. They’ll want to start well, and in games like this it means asserting themselves early.

It also means playing within themselves and, as Gerrard pointed out in his presser, going out to do a job. Individual mistakes will almost certainly be punished, as will a lack of endeavour and hesitancy. From his comments, I think we can assume that whatever the result, Gerrard will rate the performance based on effort, decisions, and executing the plan. As he mentioned, it’s not like City are an unknown quantity to the players.

So I think really, everyone’s eager for the challenge, both players and supporters. The last two matches gave Villa a massive six-point boost, so they can breathe a little easier coming into it. Naturally, Leicester at the weekend will figure into the thinking a bit, but I’ve no doubt Gerrard will put out what he thinks is his strongest side, and the one most capable of executing. Sunday is Sunday.

When Villa have the ball, it will be all about decisions. Knowing when to be patient, knowing when the break is on. Not forcing things and giving it right back. Whoever’s the 6, there’ll be a lot of pressure both ways. Interestingly, Gerrard has picked both Marvelous and Luiz. Bailey, Watkins, and Buendia, not surprising.

Anyway…A lot of rather obvious words, but as I’ve pointed out many times in the last few years, Villa have to play within themselves, and I really think patience is key. Hold it up, pass it back, be available, keep it cycling. Maintain spacing in the face of the press, and give each other simple options. There’s also getting stuck in and not being afraid to apply pressure of their own at the right times. You’ve got to bring it all.

Whatever happens, we’ll learn something tonight and it will be a fascinating watch. I expect the ground to be rocking, and that extra bit of incentive Grealish’s presence provides…Well, you never know. He might have something to prove if he gets on the pitch, but Villa certainly will, too.

Starting XI
Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Mings, Targett, Nakamba, Luiz, McGinn, Bailey, Watkins, Buendia

Over to you.

Comments 129

  1. Just in case no one knows, you can get tonight’s game for free on Amazon Prime. Just sign up for 30 days free trial. Don’t forget to cancel on day 29!

    Quite like Gerrard’s old school manager style, attitude, appearance and way of speaking. Feel like he is showing the club respect and certainly isn’t putting on a big (Liverpool) “I am”.

    Suspect JC is feeling a bit more than lukewarm about him too.

  2. Well, all pretty quiet on the western front. Man City and Jack out early welcomed with a few boos, but more hand clapping, but the ground was only just starting to fill up.
    All looking good for a great game, but have decided to watch on Prime, as I also going up on Sunday.

  3. Bailey and Buendia the weak links from the off. Bailey will not last long with SG, or Buendia. Neither up to the standard. £63 million wasted of the Grealish money. No proper communication in defence, blaming each other, and Konsa is having a real mare of a game. We are lucky to be only two down, but if better decisions had been made when we did get on the front foot, we may even have scored!

  4. 4 mins injury time yet target was down for that alone
    Young has been super in all fairness apart from Bailey everyone put in a shift,beundi really improved as game went on

  5. Obviously outclassed but we seemed to have a proper go in the second half. Did City ease off? Tried to make a few one line sarky comments but they didn’t get past JC’s sarcasm filter!

  6. Couple thoughts:

    Brief for Sanson, but he moves well and looks to be up for a quick-passing set-up
    Buendia has quality. A number of players just aren’t quite on the same wavelength
    Shame for Chuk. Great ball, would’ve blown the roof off
    Luiz did well further up

    Overall, encouraging. Could’ve been a slaughter, could’ve been a draw.

  7. jbd,

    No filter! Not sure why they don’t come through.

    Second half, Villa just got more into them, really. The goal gave them confidence, think SG probably said something like “keep playing off and you’ll lose 0-5, so get into them. If you lose 0-5, at least you weren’t just watching.”

  8. PP,

    Ash has been a very good signing. Doesn’t have the pace he once did, but he’s a savvy veteran, and provides a lot of positional awareness, flexibility. Seems to be doing a fair bit of organizing, too.

  9. SG is making a difference. Good to see Chukky get his opportunity. We seem to waste a lot of dead ball situations by aiming for Mings every time. Three on the trot, and every one ended up going out for a goal kick. Buendia did improve and fought for the ball more. Konsa needs to get a grip when Mings keeps playing the ball to him and he can only pass to Martinez who doesn’t want it.

    Great goal for Ollie, but he needs better support. El Ghazi would have buried the chance that Chuk got, but he will not miss many.

  10. Put it down to a big uptick in confidence. Villa seemed to realize that MC are mortal but it took 25 minutes. No flies on that performance.
    Looking back on the season so far I think Villa are at least 3 games shy in the win column. With a new coaching staff those type of games won’t be lost. Again, confidence.
    This game, even in losing gives you a good look at where Villa should be in the standings. No one in mid table is pulling up trees and are either treading water or slowly sinking down. West Ham are starting to wobble and it’s possible that Europe is a possibility this year. By the way I don’t pay too much attention to the top 3–look at their stats. Head and shoulders above everyone else. What’s the point?

  11. Fantastic second half

    We are so much better under Gerrard. The improvement to our midfield is huge. Move the ball quicker

    We are in good hands

  12. Yeah, 2nd half was great. Luiz looked possessed. Hopefully it wasn’t just to impress Pep. Sanson looks quality and Buendia starting to settle. Exciting days ahead. Also Ollie ran his socks off.

  13. Frem,

    I can also hear you saying Watkins is a donkey, why bring on Young, Buendia’s overrated.

    Not trying to be jerk, but as I’m watching I don’t see that the team are suddenly better. Saw a lot of the same bad decisions tonight from players, some panic, playing off, poor start to the game, etc. All things Smith would be slated for. As he probably would’ve been for bringing on Young when Bailey hurt himself.

    That’s not to defend Smith. Rather, I think a boost in confidence and playing for your job…that’s the new manager bounce and we’re seeing it. That said, I am seeing some slightly different marking/positional responsibilities, along with the very narrow setup. But I’ve also always said part of Smith’s philosophy was staying narrow and pushing play wide. Not a huge departure. He’s played Marv, Doug and SJM together. And apparently Ramsey had a niggle, so they held him out.

    Point is, and I think SG said this, is that if there’s real improvement to be had it’s a bit down the road. And I’m in no way saying it won’t come. But I’m still seeing a lot of what I expect from this collection of players at this stage of their being together.

    There are many ways to confirm a bias. I want Gerrard to succeed, and I am warming to him. The squad is what it is, though. It can be better, and I hope some continuity, fresh ideas, etc., will all make that happen. All I’m saying is that I don’t think we’re suddenly radically better.

  14. Haven’t seen the 1st half , second was typical kick up the backside Villa having a go and it nearly worked. In having a go the shape got a little looser and let’s just say playing out from the back under pressure is not our forte. We also without jack have nobody that can receive the ball under pressure. Like JC I saw the same frailties we have had for a long time none of which are surprising given the time scale and loss of jack. This will tell SG far more about what he has and has not got than the previous games and if he has the magic touch we should see change by the seasons end. Thought Beundia got better as it went on dropping deep and starting attacks, didn’t look so bullied by those DM’s with a bit of freedom.

  15. Oh and players that didn’t look overawed by city Martinez, young, Watkins , they saw them as men not gods and that is a step that some will have to take if they are to be part of the side moving forward into a top 6 side.

  16. No complaints about the result. The gulf in performance between the two teams was there for all to see. Even so, it took two stunning first time swings of a left boot to gain the result. If Citeh are not the best club team in the world, I don’t know who is.

    Thought we were too much in awe of them first half and didn’t get amongst them as JC suggested. Much better in the second half, Ollie ran his nuts off, scored a sharp goal and Chuk almost levelled it.

  17. Looks like Bailey will be out for a several weeks which might not be too onerous as he was ineffective last night. I’d like to see a bit more of Sanson and Chuk in his absence. Targett looked a bit groggy too when he went off.

    Absolutely detest playing out goal kicks from the back. Fine against lesser teams, but Citeh have a lethal press and watching a goal kick played back to Emi who could only kick it out for a corner seemed plain madness. Launch it long and give possession back over the half way line and not around your own penalty area.

  18. Think we’ve had the Sheik’s trousers down over Jack. His little cameo was well below the £100 million paid. Maybe Guardiola will knock him into shape over time.

    “Villa till I die” ringing down from the Holte End when he came on was a nice reminder of the words he used before jumping ship.

  19. I’m not sure what to make of last night.

    We were outclassed. . . . .but could have got something out of the game.
    Buendia was poor. . .then showed glimpses of why we bought him.
    Chukwuemeka was given his chance and didn’t look out of place at all, but should he have scored? It would be good if we could play out from the back, but we nearly came unstuck trying to do it. Young is surely not young enough to play every game, but looked our best player when he came on. We have a new found confidence, but started really timidly.
    Mike Dean loves giving penalties but last night didn’t
    Jack used to be our best player, but now. . . .?

  20. Really proud of how the boys reacted to the challenge of a truly super team last night … first half we got totally schooled but showed a lot of fight in the 2nd

    Gerrard clearly wants to play out from the back and beat the press which is the correct way to play if you want to be a high level top 6 team .. obviously we are miles off it for beating the press at the moment but this will improve with the training the boys are now doing .. once we are able to beat the press we will become a much more dangerous side.
    Very happy with our current direction you won’t recognize the team this time next year

    I don’t have a problem with any of the performances from our players at this stage the fact that we could have snatched a draw shows that we are already improving with a very long way to go

    onwards and upwards

  21. I know we’re not talking about Jack any more but. . . . . . I can’t help feeling that he’d have thrived and learned so much from Gerrard. In contrast, he seems to be regressing under Pep.
    I’m still struggling to judge how good Pep really is and maybe we’ll never know because he’ll never manage a team with an average player cost of £15m instead of £50m.

  22. Lots of interesting thoughts…

    It is hard with Pep, r0bb0. Was happy to see Football Insights on twitter doing some video breakdown (as I don’t have the time). The movement and ideas are all really good from Pep.

    But. You’re also watching world-class players who all have exceptional touch and quality on the ball. Whether it’s controlling or passing, they hardly put a foot wrong, and that makes everything work. Would make most any system work. They’re also smart and well drilled.

    So, yeah, the ideas are all good from Pep, but yeah, it is hard to know if he took over a much less talented side. Common refrain, but.

  23. not watched a full 90 yet but it does seem from reports the footy is trying to change.

    most notable is the playing through the middle. as much as nakamba has apparently done amazing is he the man in that holder role to give the ball too and play throught the middle. not great at receiving on the half turn.

    where did luiz play? apparently he was great. sounds like the 2 8s are changing roles too tucking in to help the full backs? very exciting stuff

  24. runtings,

    Agree about playing out from the back. Do it well, and you’re off to the races with opponents committed forward. Don’t, and it’s a long day.

    So, two things there: knowing the spaces and passes, and then having the quality to put it together under pressure. You can train the sequences and awareness.

    Trick is the quality. Some of it’s confidence, but what I don’t know are the various players’ ceilings. Thing with Buendia is you can see he reads the pass, knows the next one, and is a one-touch player. Right now, not a lot of the players around him are on the same page. Oddly, he seemed to read Chuk well, and he’s also read Ings well. He has been guilty of thinking he’s got more time, but he should be able to adapt.

    The other bit is decision making. One hopes after they go back over the film they can learn and do better. Easiest to pick on Bailey last night, but there are lots of little moments throughout matches. I guess I’m most interested in is finding out how much coaching and training can do with this group, and how much it’s down to talent and mentality, stuff you maybe can’t change that much.

  25. H&V,

    Yeah, you’ve pretty much got it on the way the 8s are asked to mark. So, McGinn tasked with Zinchenko, for example. And absolutely with playing to/through the 6.

    City were doing what you’d expect against a narrow set-up: overloading the flanks, and dragging players around to make that space even bigger while having the defense trying to get shifted back.

    Also agree, Luiz is better on that turn than Nakamba. Nakamba is good at breaking up play, especially when his confidence is up. Luiz looked very at home playing further up. He’s a good player.

    Me, I still see Nakamba as someone maybe most in danger of being replaced. But could also be true that with enough minutes and coaching he can take the next step. Like I said to runtings, no idea what the ceilings are.

  26. That said, I can also see Targett under pressure like a lot are saying.

    I really like the way he plays. He shows a lot of intelligence, and makes up for not having elite speed by reading the game well. Puts in hard tackles, too. Seems to understand the passing sequences. Sometimes the delivery is better than others.

    But, he isn’t that fast, and he doesn’t have a quick change of direction on him. If he doesn’t get close quickly, he can struggle with tricky players 1v1.

    Great battler, though.

  27. One last though in response to how r0bb0 is trying to contextualize the performance.

    I came away with pretty much the same feeling as after our showing against Chelsea, earlier. We all felt good about the side despite losing 0-3. Then took them to penalties in the Carabao straight after.

    After getting a goal back quickly, we did finally take it to City. Not sure how much of City’s 2nd half was due to thinking the match was over and that they’d be scoring for fun to suddenly being in a scrap. But, we did make it difficult for them, finally, and could’ve had a point.

    So, like the Chelsea performance, I think you can only really look at this one a few games down the road. Is it just that we have fight when there’s nothing to lose? Or do we get confidence from it and start bringing that to every game from the start?

  28. Fabulous as both strikes were for the Citeh goals, both crosses for the scorers were precise. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge the skill levels.

    The encouraging thing is that it took that level of perfection to win it. As SG says, seeing them running the ball into the corner at the end and Guardiola looking anxiously at his watch means they knew it was tight.

  29. Aston Villa became only the second team in 93 Premier League games to reduce Pep Guardiola’s Man City to an xG of below 1, while also creating 10 or more chances themselves last night.

  30. Plug,

    City were definitely on song. The long outlet, cross and finish were all perfect for Silva’s goal. The first, we could’ve done better, first Bailey, then Targett. But you can’t say they didn’t deserve it.

    Like Pep, I felt an equalizer was more likely than a third for them. If Chuk could’ve gotten just a little more loft on the shot, who knows. But Ederson played it just right, and it wasn’t an ‘easy’ chance.

  31. I have to chuckle as I see people claiming playing well for one half as an improvement when that’s been our problem this season to often. Also Frems XG stat all very laudable but then we kept loads of teams this season to very low XG’s its just that the most unlikely shots have gone in, last night two more worldies flew in from the edge of the box. On the other hand the two games we have won we did the same, Palaces 1 goal was 0.96 XG while our two came to 0.45 combined 🙂 we are a million miles away from the 2.5’s we were racking up last season.

    Jack was a major reason for that as he gave players space to operate, now they have to create their own and it will take time and may just as likely not come with these players. As JC said how much can be coached into them? I refuse to believe that Smith could not get them to pass the ball having watched his Brentford so I guess we will see how much is talent as they are hitting their peak years very soon.

    Targett is 26 that’s nearly to old for a FB in the prem, 26 about prime for a midfielder 27/8 for a CB if they are not top 6 standard pretty soon you have to ask when will they be? Of course experience helps and we have little of that in players at their prime, Mings 28 and barely played CB in comparison to most at that age. For most its likely they have played their part in the teams journey. With Jack we had a decent chance at top 6-8 without maybe a punchers chance. Interesting times ahead.

  32. i loved the way deano talked and was honest in interviews.

    god the same goes with gerrard with bells on. what a bloke.

    Time will time but i can feel it in my bones he will take us next level.

    Targetts very good but we need another lb so is he that good to buy a younger lb understudy or soemone to go staright in?

  33. mark

    my one constant gripe with deano was identity. in 3 years i never saw it. not what i was expecting anyhow. even given a turnaround in players it doesnt take that long to implement your style as we are seeing with sg.

    also his subs and game managment. i did chuckle seeing 10 men toon for most the game keep norwich at bay, his achilles heel!

  34. as a football club and in hindsight a complete change was prob needed for me. we was all about the captain and manager being a villa fan and when jack left it all seemed broke.

    just feels fresh know. can feel some positive vibes back

  35. We need a LB H&V for sure. Yep SG comes across well and as Genuine enough.

    Jacks role at city is to stretch the defence for the players coming through to exploit the spaces. Wingers rarely cross the ball for Pep (think Stirling) just hold it up and wait for the pass. So basically he stands out wide and doesn’t dictate anything nor see a whole lot of ball. You would think he would try the odd run in behind like he did for us and like Stirling does but he just doesn’t, what a waste.

  36. H&V Not sure what style Smith would have imprinted on this present lot as he never had them together, no wingers for months etc. Even SG said its hard as he has had no pre-season to put across his style, well neither did Smith. Don’t forget that this is the 1st time that Jack was not in the teams make up. Villa was Jack and Jack was Villa, 60% of our attack went through him. Now you can criticise that as short sighted or see it for what it was, a vehicle to get Villa where they are with what was a rapidly lumped together team followed by upgrades in quality to bring up the standard over time ( we are still doing this) .

    Teams like Brighton look very nice but are still a few players away from being effective (goals) and potters been there a while.

    Smith had a young side inexperienced at this level and a 5 year plan of Europe. Last season our Chance creation was off the charts so if Smith implemented nothing how is that so? When he went Defensive it came together quite Quickly and next season added attack (Barkley, Jack combo) we know what happened next.

    Its a damn sight harder to have an attack focused team, SG has made it easier for our Midfield to not get swamped but we have to progress to creating more chances eventually no matter how formulaic we look in a short time under SG. That my friend as SG keeps saying will take a lot longer.

    I cannot remember anyone criticising style when we started last season 😉

  37. H&V Yes it all got a bit stale maybe but here’s my penny’s worth.

    We got unexpectedly, built a team that stayed up by the skin of its teeth, built another that against all expectations looked like cracking the top 6 then for various reasons (injuries to top players and covid related malarkey) dipped. That set expectations up a level so coming into this season the club had high hopes but lost its Talisman and media giant in Jack.

    We had an horrendous pre-season and spent Jacks money, changed the coaching staff entirely bar the goalie dept. Thats a lot of change.

    Think of What Smith was working under, Owners idea of an attacking side, 5 year plan for Europe, Developing a young side with resale, integrating the youth, high spending (or seen as). He has all of this on his shoulders coming into the season an nothing went right.

    SG comes in and gets the go ahead to spend, play how he wants, no baggage of money spent, players lifted with a new regime and to top it all its Stevie bloody Gerrard and Villa are back on the media gravy train.

    You can easily see why its all happened.

  38. Really interesting discussions this afternoon. . . . . . I now feel I need to be more observant during games! What’s good about this blog just now is those observations and suggestions rather than the point scoring that there used to be.
    I think that’s partly because we’re all optimistic, but none of us quite sure how it’ll turn out for the manager, individual players or the team.

  39. A little thing today just brought home to me what a tough call it is to be a football manager.

    For the first time in a while I was out at a lunch today so decided to smarten myself up a bit and put on a jacket I’d not worn for ages. In fact I found a name badge label in the pocket which showed that the last time I wore it was 2017 to a PWC dinner when we were nominated for one of PWC’s business of the year awards. I turned down the nomination for various reasons but was still invited to the dinner. Two years after that, (again for various reasons) I was having to put the house etc on the line as one of the guarantees to save the business. A year further on and we’d made the biggest profit (non inflation adjusted admittedly) in the company’s very long history.

    If I’d been a football manager I’d have been ducking cabbages in 2019 and probably wouldn’t have had the chance to see the business through that difficult patch to the sunny uplands beyond. I feel a bit like that with Dean Smith. As Mark laid out, circumstances changed considerably during his tenure and he never really had the chance to adapt to the new players. There is of course the separate question of whether they were the players that he wanted in the first place. We’ll never know now but I bet in his mind, he knew what he was planning to do and believes that it would have worked.

    I tend to be more patient with managers than some on here as I do think that we need to allow them to learn from the occasional mistake and give them time to put things right. Having said that, right now, it’s hard to argue that swapping SG for DS was a ‘bad’ move, quite the opposite. When we next go through a dodgy patch (which we will) I hope he’s given the time to turn things round. He strikes me (as did Dean Smith) as a very reflective manager and given time and continued investment I’m feeling increasingly confident that he can be a really good fit for us.

  40. Much of my previous point applies to players too. It’s so easy to spot mistakes on a football pitch and jump on players backs but every one of us could name a whole list of players who have looked average (or worse than that) and gone on to have great careers. On the other hand we could also mention players who’ve looked amazing and then just slowly disappeared from view.

    Right now the whole squad is having to adapt to a new training regime, a new playing style (presumably) and new personal relationship with the manager and his team. Some will get it, love it and slot right in whereas others will take some time. Buendia for example is coming in for a lot of stick but as JC has pointed out he has some clear skills and my bet would be that we’re all singing his praises in a few months time. There’s no harm in pointing out when players make mistakes but it would be a shame if those came to define them and they didn’t have a chance to turn things round. Imagine that SG’s “we don’t let this slip” moment had come much earlier in his career, you can bet that instead of the sympathy there’d have been vitriol from the fans.
    It’s going to be really interesting to see how all the players evolve over the next few months and which ones are still automatic choices on a Saturday afternoon this time next year.

  41. I agree jack was 60 percent of our attack under deano but for me this is a mistake as you should have a system of play that your players then fit into .. the football was always very hit and miss with Jack playing ,
    All the top managers get you to play and work via there ideas of play
    Jack was never going to learn anything new under deano I think he would under Stevie
    The fact that we have no idea how to beat a press consistently is evidence the the coaching was just not progressive with becoming elite even though the spend is.

    I think both villa and Norwich have upgraded from what they had before

  42. Also I think the danger of having one of our own managing the club is that we get blinded by love and can’t except the signs the they are not going to take the club to the next levels

  43. runtings. . .the ‘blinded by love’ comment is a fair one. You’re likely to cut more slack to a fellow fan. Having said that. . . . I still think DS would have turned things round 🙂

  44. The problem is past, present, and future. Everyone knows what happened in the past and that is what everything is based on. No one knows what the present or future hold and being a somewhat optimistic bunch we all see the future as the answer to everything. So getting rid of a perceived problem gives us a lift in spirits. Same for players. New leaf, turned page, whatever. The success will be as long as the bloom stays on the flower. How many of us have first impressions that quickly fade? And how many of us are pleasantly surprised? As a whole we aren’t any better than children wanting the next best thing. Doesn’t matter if it’s a piece of shit as long as it’s shiny. We have no patience
    Smith didn’t turn to poo, he was always Smith. Gerrard isn’t the second coming, that doesn’t exist. Smith is the new messiah at Norwich as Gerrard is at Villa. Barring a miracle, they will be off to pastures anew in a couple of years. One team’s trash is another’s treasure.
    Not quite the same for Eddie Howe-lamb to slaughter. It will take a while to wash that smell off.

  45. Gosh hogging it today don’t mean to but following Ian’s point

    For me its not about new or shinny its purely about how our players are coached and the type of football it produces a winning formula
    Nothing personal to any manager they come and go as you say
    When i see a coach join the club that I am aware uses modem methods including basics like drilling there player in how to pass and move it fills me with joy

    yes we are miles off it but the reason they were trying to play out from the ack all night vs citeh is because they are being coached to …. It will take time to perfect as this type of caching hasn’t been at villa for quite some time

  46. On Smith and identity:

    runtings and I have talked about this. I think the simplest thing to say is that it’s not really that much different than Gerrard’s, in principle. We talk about 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1, but, depending on what responsibilities you give players, there’s not a lot of difference.

    Last night, think it was being called a 4-3-2-1.

    Both call for a situational press. Like all presses, it’s to win the ball back or disrupt play to create a turnover.

    Both feature two forwards and central ‘striker’.

    Both use a three-man midfield behind. Ramsey, McGinn and Nakamba are still Ramsey, McGinn and Nakamba. Don’t know if it will change with Ramsey available, but last night we saw McGinn, Luiz and Nakamba. Which we’ve also seen before.

    Probably the biggest difference I’ve seen so far is in the marking responsibilities. But both want to plug up the middle. It does leave space wide, which is what City were looking to overload and exploit. The two ‘outside’ midfielders are essentially tasked with marking the opponent’s fullbacks.

    Another stylistic difference I’m seeing is that the wide forwards are tucked in pretty narrow, and they pressure narrowly. Changed a bit with Young on, he hangs back (pace and legs, I suppose), almost more 4-4-2, but not, in the end.

    They both want(ed) to play out from the back. FBs are asked to get forward and provide width, overlaps, and crosses.

    The thing we keep hearing will really be different is Villa becoming a possession side. If that comes to pass (pun intended), it really just means holding onto the ball longer, and trying to pull teams out of shape. City are obviously the prime example. Smith called it ‘resting on the ball’.

    But, like MK was saying, what we saw from Smith’s Villa would largely have been reflective of Jack’s presence. You had a wide left player who was the outlet and ball carrier more so than a 6 or 8.

    I’d say an ideal Smith goal would’ve been like Silva’s. A long ball up into space, a cross, a goal. It’s much easier to create good chances in space and running at defenders. Likewise, it’s harder to get through and make good chances with intricate passing when the middle is clogged.

    Ideally, you have both styles available. I’ve long said I think Villa were impatient and looking to score too quickly too often. But, as we saw last night, those moves breaking down have a lot to do with decisions and quality of the ball played. And there’s always the question of whether the requisite skill/intelligence is there for the squad, as-is, to be a ‘possession-based’ team.

    Could well be that for Smith, as it probably will be for Gerrard, would’ve been about adding quality in stages to get there. Buendia’s about the first true one-touch player I’ve seen for us in god, I don’t know how long.

  47. JC, your last 2 paragraphs have nailed it. If a team can pass and move first touch, both methods mentioned become available. Have Villa got that quality of player capable of doing it? SG will be working on it like fury to ensure he doesn’t discard anyone as lost causes that might become a diamond with a little patience.

    We’ve come a long way from Championship rabble status to competitive EPL standard. It may be that we now need to source technically gifted players in order to make the next step up.

  48. There are a couple off clips going around about us passing out the City press

    It’s something we would never have done under Smith

  49. I don’t know what to think of Buendia

    He’s seems to slow.

    A couple of times he missed some fairly simple passes into good areas that a player of 30 million should find easily

  50. im reading evras book at the mo. he does say when him and vidic arrived they were like.i want to go home! this prem is too fast and hard! and thats playing for utd!

    Bailey will become great. just needs to adapt and stay fit. his pace will be vital and a big miss

  51. Ian lol no never that

    JC I think deano and Stevie are chalk and cheese in there methods or approach despite the same formation and this its why its going to look ugly before it gets pretty as the players have entered the type of training/ approach they have not experienced at villa before

    Agree with plug re Buendia and Bailey too they will come good as they are two of our most gifted players , may start seeing more from them in the coming months

  52. Runtings 40% is being very generous closer to 30% 🙂 and the types of goals we scored were very much the type scored against us recently , very low probability of them being repeated on a regular basis. Even cities two were in that bracket. In reality draws would of been a fairer outcome in the 1st two maybe even the 3rd. Smiths plan was to create dead cert chances and we did that last season with Jack but not always by jack he was a player magnet. I think his focus this year was how to score not how to not conceded and score. I think considering the Teams age and newness it was how do we get goals in this league and as we have seen with SG its not with possession based play for most teams. SG has the same problem as DS now.

  53. Frem we have tried to play from the back especially last season. The only problem is we have nobody like City that can receive the ball in tight circumstances. Nakamba on the half turn is a nightmare. When we had Jack he came deep and received the ball off of the defence and carry it forward, Mcginn did similar but less frequently. If SG improves the players skills to the extent they can get passed teams presses I will be impressed, as it is all I saw was Keeper to mings to Konsa then hoof.

  54. JC I have read that Basically the narrow front 3 drop back into midfield out of possession, The flat 3 in midfield shuffle over to which ever side the ball is and the full back on the opposite side gets ready to spring forward. The midfielder shuts the winger down and the our winger drops back and closes of the passing lanes and we hopefully get the ball.

  55. On the coaching of passing etc, I have played for Village sides that used 1 touch and two touch football in training to the point that was all was allowed. So I would be amazed if Smith didn’t and have seen them doing it at BMH. What doesn’t impress me on the pitch is the movement into space to receive the ball. That could be hesitancy not to get caught out but some of the very good wins we had last season the passing was very much quick and very close to being shut down. That opens up space and leaves players stranded, if it doesn’t come off then your buggered.

    The other Thing is playing against team mates is not the same as playing another team that are maybe better/fitter/more athletic than you and just as well drilled.

  56. We all desperately want SG to succeed and can ‘feel’ that something has changed since he arrived. Not just in the fan’s levels of optimism but also the attitude and apparent confidence of the players. As JC points out, tactically we’re not doing that much different than before although there’s a temptation to imagine that SG has revolutionised the way we play. One of the commentators was guilty of that when he said that we’re playing more passes per move than under DS, but the actual stats suggest otherwise. I guess it’s not that surprising, bearing in mind that we were up against Man City and also not surprising that we made fewer passes and played more long balls than we used to under DS.
    We rarely looked comfortable playing out from the back under DS and as yet, we don’t under SG either. If confidence continues to grow it’s possible to imagine that we’ll improve in this area although there may also have to be some personnel changes if we want to become masters of this.
    This weekend’s game should provide a better indication of whether things really are starting to change. Leicester this season, are the sort of team that we need to be competing with on a similar level. They’re likely to energetically press our defence so it won’t be surprising if we find ourselves having to resort to long passes again next time round. It’s a shame that we’ll be without Bailey’s pace to worry them at the back.
    After his sound performance in midweek it’ll be interesting to see if Chukwuemeka gets another run out this weekend. It’s certainly hard to imagine that Young will be asked to play another full game.

  57. Robbo- With all the games coming up and SG’s intense sessions I think we will see a few niggles along the way, you can do one or the other, i.e. intense training ore intense game play but its a massive risk to do both. Maybe that means he uses the kids a bit more and forgoes the Jan window temptation for a more complete idea, oh and Trez will be back soon 🙂

  58. Listening to the various analysis of the game one thing struck me. Its very good to drill players in formation tactics and movement of that formation as a team, that is obvious whatever way you play. What is less obvious and it comes under experience, nous, awareness etc is reacting without thinking to the scenario on the pitch. You have to take in what’s happening in real time and instantaneously react. Defenders who can organise do this very well orchestrating others as well as there own position relative to danger.

    So learning something like a formation and movement until its ingrained can take away some of that thinking but, and its a big but, you have to have the intelligence in game to see it all and adjust in sync with each other, City have this, their players have this but I would not put to many of ours in that box at present, Young, Beundia maybe Watkins. It can come down to communication but really you have to see it to communicate it and that takes time.

  59. runtings,

    Me, I think the difference is largely situational looking at the quality of the squad (and I’m looking back over time with Smith). It was the best way for us to play at the time, going quick. But we also had Jack, and of course you’d rely on him.

    In the very helpful video clips people have been posting, it struck me how centrally Buendia was playing in all the good moves. Which is where Smith wanted him. Granted his was drifting in, but that’s a big part of what we’ve been missing.

    Anyway, we’ll probably disagree on this…but that’s what we’re here for!

  60. You’re right JC, disagreement is good. I never could see the point of meetings where nobody had a counter view. The very best ones are where you come out with a different view from the one you went in with. It does need everyone to have an open mind to alternative views though . . . . .and that’s the hardest bit!

  61. That said, I do think SG will get us playing with more possession. It was there in patches against a very very good press. Should show up a bit more in each game as time goes on, especially against lesser sides.

    But there were a couple-three sequences where players weren’t hiding, saw the pattern, made the quick and simple pass to keep it ticking over and avoided cul-de-sacs. Buendia was pretty instrumental in those, just getting to that space, drawing defenders, making the quick pass to whoever was available, teasing things open.

    I think he’ll keep increasing in influence as soon as players get used to the idea that it will come back from him quickly. If you’re going forward, he’ll slide it right to you and then move to make the one-two available.

  62. I’ve just read that Joaquin Correa of Inter used to be 50% owned by The City Group. http://sportwitness.co.uk/i-didnt-want-go-argentina-international-grateful-man-city-deal-never-happened-not-lasted/ I had previously thought that co-ownership was outlawed, but apparently it’s fine in this country up until the point where the player actually registers to play for an English club.
    It was interested to read that he’d felt uncomfortable about the thought of becoming contracted to play for City as he recognised that he’d have spent a lot of time bench-warming and he just wants to play football.
    It feels quite uncomfortable that players are increasingly becoming commodities and potentially have reduced influence over their own future. It’s also uncomfortable to think that a very wealthy club can own a share of a person, in fact they can own shares of lots of people, and if they turn out to be good they then have the opportunity to take on full ownership. Maybe we should start a campaign for statues of certain football club owners to join Edward Colstan in Bristol docks.

  63. MK,

    Lots of good points. What’s interesting, and anyone who’s played knows this, is how often players mark themselves out of the game, intentionally or not.

    Think that goes to the awareness that has to be on them (as well as wanting the ball). See how the opponent wants to block lanes, etc., who’s coming at you from where. That tells you where the open spaces are.

    From there, you have to trust others are seeing that and reacting accordingly.

    It seems miles different, but in the NFL, that’s a huge part of success: players who can all read the defense, don’t need to talk about it, but all see the same thing and react in predictable ways to what’s available. There’s a lot of trust involved.

    When teams struggle, you almost always hear, “we have to get back to basics” or “the fundamentals.” Receiving, controlling, passing the right way…ie, into a player’s path so they’re moving the right way, forward or backward.

    And absolutely, the better the squad, the tougher training is. City have the luxury of going against the best in training, good on good. That’s no small thing.

  64. r0bb0,

    Experiencing a lot of different ownership models, the footballing one regarding players is almost bewildering.

    In all NA sports, the players truly are commodities. Some have contract leverage, and it’s changing, but in baseball, for example, not uncommon for a player to be called into the manager’s office after a game and be told, “pack your bags, you’ve been traded.” No say in where, no consulting with the family, they’re just hopping on a plane overnight to go to a new team the next day whether they like it or not.

    In football, players can get cut at almost any point. There are different windows, and different contract situations, but you virtually never see a player a team can’t move on collecting a salary for two-three years running out his contract.

    I don’t pay much attention, but I think baseball is headed toward another lockout. Owners literally close the doors to the existing players and bring in ‘scabs’ until a new, more favorable agreement (to them) is negotiated with the players’ union. Hockey had one a few years ago.

  65. MK nice one for the YouTube link that’s the sort of thing I love and a good breakdown of our good and bad points
    Makes me feel like we are on the right pathway for the stage the club is at and we are measuring ourselves against one of the current best 4 clubs on the planet

    Just re playing out from the back Just like many other clubs with far less spend than us practice will always make perfect and this just has not been part of the playing culture at villa up until now and when deano did try it he didn’t stick with it simply because that isn’t his style or method I watch our team very closely under him and I would describe his style as percentage football

    Can our current players adapt ? if they can’t I don’t think they will be here for the long haul

  66. miles away from being a possession based team!

    sg had to come in and stop the rot. as we all know build from the back. he’s made us a lot more focused on position and space which we’ve been crying out for. the big stand out is the troublesome mid area. his faith and use of nakamba looks like a big change and now with luiz back as a 8 imo his best position instead of a 6 has transformed it a bit. and the other one is no more mings hoof ball down the channel for ollie to chase. lots more ball to feet and one 2s. in a short space of time its impressive

  67. john

    in sg first interview he said we will become a possession based team and time will tell if the current lot can do it!

    add a few of hi splayers in jan. get safe and bring on the summer training!

  68. MK,

    On those responsibilities, yes. And I guess it depends on the opponent’s formation, but you’d also see McGinn tasked with Zinchenko, leaving Cash to deal with Sterling.

    City were very much working those wide areas, then looking to switch play. Konsa and Mings often didn’t have anyone to mark in front of them. It all gets drawn deep and flat, drawn to a side, then the drift across, the cutback, or the switch are all on.

    But it’s the quality that kills you. Lots of sides will try that, but the pass, take, move, pass…they just don’t come off like clockwork. Other teams, you see that long switch going over someone’s head, falling short and getting cut out. Or the take and first touch aren’t as clean.

    Also, Bailey was doing that same nowhere marking that Traoré was, tracking back, yes, but then just drifting like his work was done and not helping much with the overload and the play backward or across to the middle.

    All teams will play long balls when they’re there. But obviously it’s down to the quality of the pass and everyone reading it so you don’t have the isolated player with no one to play to. Silva knows and makes that run. Different to expecting Ollie to hold up while tightly marked and not on the run.

  69. H&V,

    Yes. Nakamba is being asked to do a lot more in that 6 role, and us not emphasizing it had been a frustration for me. It’s key to being able to play out.

  70. I’ve admitted before that with my school not being a football one I probably don’t have the instinctive ‘feel’ for formations and styles of play that most of the rest of you on here, but having said that, I am surprised with the suggestion that we didn’t try to play out from the back under Smith. My memory is one of frustration that we ‘were’ trying to play out from then back but struggling to do it effectively. I’m sure I remember my buttocks clenching as Mings and others tried hard to keep possession but were finally forced into playing it long, or lost possession and invited pressure.
    Now we may well have given up in recent times and SG is trying to install it in then players now and hopefully will be successful, but it seems to me that it will be a question of whether he and his staff are able to coach it more effectively than DS did, or whether we’ll need new players to make it happen.
    Having looked at the last half dozen games under DS and the first few under SG, the number of long passes, and number of consecutive passes doesn’t seem to have changed much. https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24/Show/England-Aston-Villa
    In fairness, in his first game we did play fewer long passes, but we seem to have slipped back into the old style in the last two games. . . . .admittedly that was always likely when one of them was against Man City!

  71. JC- sometimes what you see is a players having to read for another and filling in for the others failings, that player then cannot express himself because he’s on the look out for mistakes, I think we have had a lot of this. The Wolves game pretty much knocked the trust out of the side that had previously pressed very well and looked very together. SG is right in telling them to be brave.

    I 100% agree on Beundia, he actually looked better the deeper he started second half, that 10 central position didn’t suit him under Smith as he was swamped with 1-2 DM and CB’s he really needs a bit of a free role. He is also a victim of seeing things others just don’t yet.

    On the passing out, City showed how by having two CM drop between the lines to receive the ball from the backs with our front line unable to get near them nor stop them. I think Watkins may have gone further forward to give the CB’s something to think about in the second, which was more Smith like.

    Its hard to know how you would coach reading the game, its something I just did naturally well and I could not tell you how or why other than I could anticipate, it mattered not where I played it was the same, but central mid and CB need this with bells on not so much out wide as you have the line to one side. Up front its getting into the right positions and hoping someone can see them too. So far this season Ings has played his own game and got nowhere for instance.

  72. On Possession and players being comfortable with it, I see more of that from the Youth sides and maybe just maybe that will be the evolution as they come through. I can dream 🙂

    Oh and the man McPhee, set piece goal and long throws from Cash? hmm

  73. So who is going to play Sunday
    Will target be fit,if not suppose young plays,
    Bailey definitely out,makes a change from a straight news conference
    Midfield I would go sane again and then it’s a straight fight between ramsay or elgastly for baileys place
    Sansom might get more mins ,hopefully ings will be fit too ,nice option on the bench

  74. It’s great to see what Nakamba can do with a run of games. We’re now much stronger with Nakamba, Luiz, SJM and Ramsey vying for 2-3 positions. Buendia, Sanson, and Carney with El Ghazi and Bidace as subs. Watkins or Ings up top.

    Special word for Mings. He’s such a nice lad, hope he can keep it up. For Sunday I’d play same back 5. Then

    SJM – Nakamba – Ramsey

    Buendia – Watkins – Sanson

  75. SG has shown so far he wants to see his players and will change it around, the entire of our midfield bar Nakamba can play in the ten roles up front if need be, so far he hasn’t trusted ElGhazi there.

    Nakamba is the same players he has always been the team has changed and become more defensive and so that helps him.

  76. Not overly confident about tomorrow

    We have a horrific record against Leicester and vardy loves playing us

    I think we might be a bit burnt out from Tuesday

    Can see Sanson and and Ramsey starting

  77. r0bb0,

    You’re not wrong.

    From what I’ve seen and heard now, I do think SG knows what he’s talking about, and his demeanor, reputation/experience, and staff should produce the right environment and results.

    But, as he’s said, it’s early days, and for now, I’ve not seen dramatically different ideas or players on the pitch. Nor would I really expect to. The Ings/Watkins bit needs to be sorted, and there’s finally enough healthy bodies for midfield competition.

    Course, with Bailey coming up lame again and Traoré still nowhere to be seen, we’re back to not having many wide options.

    But it’s the same cast, and it wasn’t as though there were some magical, mystical insight that was missing. Like MK said, the Wolves collapse seemed to have destroyed confidence/trust. We were all feeling pretty good before that.

    What you say about footballing experience/knowledge…It’s not that complicated, the “theory”. A few videos tell you what you need to know. All the magic is in getting the right players to execute the ideas…Or, taking what you’ve got and finding a way to play that maximizes it.

    Pep knew Gerrard would come in with his 4-3-3, knows the pros and cons, and set up with Rodri and Fernandinho to counter. Took a bit, but the Villa players adjusted, got more aggressive and stopped letting City boss proceedings.

  78. JC,

    Yeah, think Sanson will be class especially with SG mentioning him based on just training b4 Man C game.

    Looks like Ings fit for tomorrow.

  79. El Ghazi is a funny one. I think he is one who needs that arm around the shoulder to get the best out of him. When he’s on he’s on but that confidence can slip away quickly for him.
    Comes on at 60 minutes, scores from the spot. Villa win 3-2 :-

  80. Frem, what’s in the past doesn’t count. Most of who will play tomorrow weren’t in a Villa shirt two seasons ago. Besides, Villa won at Leicester last season. Vardy is slowing down. And Rodgers is slowly losing the plot with players getting long in the tooth.

  81. Investment in the Prem starts at 100 mill in the summer transfer. As we have seen stretching that out over 3 players is a bit of a risk expecting them to hit the ground running. MC have discovered that 100 mill on one player has gotten them a good bench player. And MU have shown us how to blow a wad and get nothing on the pitch. An average of 50 mill rated players should get you top 3 or 4. Anything less and you will be run of the mill mid table. The premier league is now a top 3 with everyone else trying to do it on less. The only team who is investing in the mid table is Villa. The players you see today will be gone soon replaced by those 40-50 mill rated players.

  82. SG’s massive advantage of Smith is baggage and choice of system or style he prefers.

    He doesn’t have to find room immediately for the £100m spent fit or not, he doesn’t have to play Academy players, He has no need to play Tuenzebe, He can use Youngs experience in any position he likes without anyone questioning his thinking.

    His narrow tight way of playing also circumvents the lack of wingers and means that Beundia, Chuk, el ghazi, sanson, Luis, Mcginn, Ramsey, Bidace can all play in those narrow ten spots if needed. System suits Nakamba as its defence 1st over attack 1st.

    Of course then there’s the obvious time together factor and freshness. SG has said his training is intense to match the matchday experience but clearly in his 1st game the players upped their output with 1-2 days or less of this approach so fitness unlikely a problem short term and matches have been thick and fast so I doubt there has been a fitness boost, any gains in stamina will be over an extended period as the body adjusts. Injuries will occur as they always do but niggles have less time to recover.

    I think sanson offers something different to what we have had for two seasons and hope he plays today.

    I’m off to Villa park today, 1st to the winter market for a beer and a schnitzel but will be my 1st visit to VP since we dropped.

  83. Ian- I agree all will change eventually and maybe some of the kids will be those £50m players. SG puts a brave face on it and claims we have the quality to give anyone a game which has been true for at least last and this season but consistency is what’s been lacking. If you have to be 110% to get something every game rather than the 70-80% the top teams require it takes its toll.

  84. Enjoy the match, MK.

    Martinez, Young, Mings, Konsa, Cash, Nakamba, McGinn, Luiz, Watkins, Ramsey, Buendía

    Ings not on the bench, yet.

    Subs: Steer, Tuanzebe, Davis, Sanson, Hause, Philogene-Bidace, El Ghazi, Chukwuemeka, Iroegbunam

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