There was a time when issues of coaching and management were not a main topic of conversation amongst fans, when the topic was simply about why had there not been more teamwork. Or why was such-and-such a player off his game. And the scoring chances that went begging. Or not.
I would argue that this kind of theme was standard faire up to quite recent times. And then we got the notion that there was something a lot more scientific about the nature of footie itself rather than being a measure of innate ability and woolly psychology. And lady luck.
For my part I still hang onto the notion that how good a footballer can be is a lot down to him, not so very much on how much he is coached – although coaching must be a vital ingredient in a player’s development. If we go through the history of the game at the Villa, the best of the players were those who spent a huge amount of time on self-improvement; on practise. It was true in the days of the greats like Archie Hunter and John Devey, and even forty-odd years ago, when Bruce Rioch would practise his shooting to perfection, working out (in the days of leather balls) how he could get the ball to swerve, and to land in the right spot. In that, Rioch emulated what Denny Hodgetts did in the 1880s and 1890s: Hodgetts was famous for the amount of swerve on his shots, and even his centres.
But that is not to say that professional players received no coaching in times of yore. It’s just that it was then done differently, and (as now in my view) how good a player could become was down to how much he would work at what he was taught, on top of his natural ability. How many times have we wistfully seen the loss of highly promising young players – like the Moore brothers – essentially (it would seem) because of their failure to work at their game.
Anyhow, I thought it might be of interest to trace a general history of the approach towards coaching and football management down at t’ Villa. Of necessity, however, this essay will not be a short review; part one is supplied now, with part two being next week’s instalment.
*********************
The basis of Aston Villa’s playing success in their great pre-WW1 years was simple: to find young talent and coach them in ‘The Villa Way’ (the coaching being done by the older players). If any positions could not be properly filled by this method then – and only then – would purchases be effected: and only where the board and the secretary (always in those days a team job) were reasonably sure that the acquired player would fit into the disciplined Villa mould. Those that didn’t were soon ejected, no matter how much talent they might have.
Despite little success by way of winning trophies after World War One, Villa’s style of play continued to attract popular support and appreciation from far and wide, and Villa continued to apply ‘The Villa Way’ that had worked for them before. Nevertheless, by the middle-1920s the fact that there had only been one trophy won in six seasons and the fact that Villa had not done very well in the league (and added financial issues) caused a revolution which led to the chairman (Fred Rinder) being ousted in 1925. Then George Ramsay, an iconic player and captain in the 1870s, and secretary since 1886, finally retired in 1926. His shoulders had carried much of the credit for Villa’s earlier successes and had helped to build ‘The Villa Way’ approach.
After two or three seasons the reformed board decided on a new policy to gain success, which was to make considerably more use of the chequebook. From 1927 this approach seemed to be showing signs of working and by 1931 Villa were league runners-up for the first time since 1914. Villa repeated that level of achievement in 1933. Unfortunately, however, the board itself had by then become very aged, and not only they but the players they had acquired as well. And the club captain, Billy Walker, an outstanding member of the team since 1920 and around whom the team had been built, retired at the end of 1933. And another ‘great’ midfielder – Jimmy Gibson – was also virtually ‘over the hill’ by this time.
Billy Walker, by the way, wrote that the best coaching he received was from the senior players Frank Barson and Clem Stephenson when he (Walker) arrived in the first team. The older and more talented players would encourage and cajole throughout the match, and they would be respected. Walker, in turn, coached his left-wing partner, firstly Arthur Dorrell and then Eric Houghton. Both became internationals, with Walker. In fact Walker only emulated what Denny Hodgetts did in the 1890s, and Joe Bache in the 1900s/10s.
As to coaching as part of Villa’s training sessions, there had never been much emphasis on that side of affairs, apart from practise matches. This is despite the fact that a former player and a foremost Villa committee-member and director, Charlie Johnstone, did have ideas on this matter and tried to promote the idea of dribbling practise around objects, but his input appears to have been virtually ignored.
By the early 1930s, and with the ageing board members now becoming physically incapable of doing the work they had done 20 years before (of scouting etc) to maintain an effective team, the whole set up needed a spring-clean. Aston Villa decided to follow the trend now established at many other clubs: of appointing a team manager. Strangely enough, Villa had the opportunity of appointing Billy Walker on his retirement from playing in December 1993, but Billy instead went to the Wednesday, where he organised a Cup-winning team in 1935.
The first such appointment made by Villa was not their first choice. The manager they wanted refused to leave his job as he preferred to honour his contract, so Villa’s choice (if there was one) was literally ‘out of the blue’. It was Jimmy McMullan, whose major playing sojourn had been with Manchester City and he had been a Scottish international, skipper (in fact) of the 1928 ‘Wembley Wizards’ side. In May, 1933 he became player-manager of Oldham Athletic before being selected by Villa in June, 1934. Clearly, he was a rookie as a manager, and before long his policies drew ire from the Villa fans, particularly in the way in which he changed the Villa style. The most crucial change he made was when he brought Jimmy Allen from Portsmouth, a centre-half whose style was of the then new-fangled ‘stopper’ (or centre-back) mould. Now, this acquisition particularly upset the Villa fans as they had always been used to centre-halves of the ‘old’ variety who defended and attacked; “they did the whole job”, it was said. Allen, thought the fans, made Villa’s play most uninteresting. This approach was also heavily criticised in the local press.
McMullan was on a hiding to nothing, as the Villa board and secretary were not used to team managers being around, and McMullan was sometimes disrespectfully lowered in full view of the players. There’s a story about Jimmy McMullan that he was sitting at a table discussing tactics with some players and using tea cups as make-believe players to demonstrate his point. In came the Villa secretary (one Billy Smith, who had taken over from George Ramsay in ’26, and had something of a big idea of himself: he liked to be thought of as the real ‘Gaffer’). He saw what was going on and literally swiped the cups off the table and said (pointing to the pitch): “You play football out THERE!”.
It may well have been Billy Smith that diverted the board’s attention away from the appointment of Billy Walker. I am guessing, but Smith was probably jealous of anyone who might develop more power than he, and I feel that Smith was happy to concede to an outsider rookie managerial appointment in order to keep control as much as possible. If that was truly the case, then it had a seriously flawed outcome.
McMullan’s policy was not supported by results either, as Villa’s 1934-35 season was average, as Villa’s seasons went. But the 1935-36 season was, to put it mildly, disastrous, as Villa started to plunge towards relegation. Not only was there a home defeat against local rivals Albion by 0-7, but tragic home defeats against Middlesbrough (2-7), Grimsby (2-6), and a phenomenal 1-7 to Arsenal, whose goals were all scored by Ted Drake. After only a couple of those results had taken place, the board decided very quickly that it was all going pear-shaped and knew where to lay the blame. McMullan left in the October, only two months into the season. It could be said that McMullan left just one matter of credit behind him: a young player he had acquired by the name of Frank Broome, who, by the end of the 1930s, would be playing alongside Stanley Matthews in the England team.
But to try and stave off relegation, the Board (who took over the management of the team once more) had again reached for the chequebook during that disastrous season. £10,000 here, £10,000 there, and a few at less cost, but at fees that were very large for those days. It did not give chance for the players to gel in time to avoid the drop. However, several of those players became instrumental in subsequently bringing Villa back to the top, and two – the Scots Massie and Cummings – would provide great service to the club for many years. Nevertheless, Aston Villa had been relegated from the top flight for the very first time in their history and the Villa fans just could not believe it.
The year 1936 not only saw Villa’s first-ever relegation from the top flight, but also a revolution of the kind that happened in 1925 when the incoming board thought they knew the answers. But apart from the fact that no trophies had been won of late, there was considerable anger that ‘The Villa Way’ had been thrown aside – no new players had come through the ranks for years. The board was ousted and a new board elected. But what was both amazing and intriguing was the popular return to the board of the now 78-year-old Frank Rinder, the ousted chairman of 1925.
And it was Rinder – always the far-seeing leader over decades of service to football – who was a major agent in Villa’s next step: the appointment of a new team manager. Since 1925, Rinder had made himself available to both the FA and the Football League, and it was in 1936 that he officially represented the FA with the amateur England side that competed in the 1936 Berlin Olympics. And who should be coach to Austria at the same tournament but Jimmy Hogan, a man who had given virtually all of his previous 13 or so years to the service of countries like Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Austria and had become renowned for his coaching ability. Rinder seized the moment, and by August Hogan was Villa’s new manager.
Hogan’s approach was cutting edge, and he was clear in his outlook: “It is my opinion that the whole secret of football is this need for a complete suppleness of the hips. Once that is secured, a man can swerve, head, tackle, fall, with the utmost comfort. You ask me what is wrong with English football? That is what is wrong. English players are generally too stiff.
“Football training must be in accord with football. It is no use training a man for straight running.” He said that he wanted the players to “go onto the field trained for football.”
Eric Houghton, a player of the 1930s, many years later wrote:
“I have often blessed the day I met Jimmy Hogan, who taught me so much about the game and about myself. His methods were simple. ‘The easier you make it, the better you will play it’, he used to say.
“His method was to open out defences on the outside by using width in attack and making the ball do the work. I can hear him now, a stocky, ramrod-stiff, yet dignified man, pounding out his simple theories like: ‘Remember, when passing or kicking the ball, it travels at least twice as fast as a man can run. Why bother to beat a man – unless you have to – when he can be beaten with an accurate pass? … Defend in block and attack in block; either way, leave no gaps.’”
By 1938, Hogan had brought back the old-fashioned centre-half, much to the glee of the Villa fans. Hogan had also reached agreement with the board that players would not be bought unless absolutely necessary. He was trying to re-establish ‘The Villa Way’.
At the June 1938 AGM, following promotion back to the top flight, Fred Rinder stated:
“It was not so much a manager we wanted. In my judgment the directors ought to manage the club and if they are not capable of doing so they ought not to be there. What we wanted is what we got – a man who could teach the players how to play football. It had [in recent years] become the system to get a young player and put him in the first team; if he had the ‘guts’ he made good; but if not there was nobody to help him. That was what the game was suffering from.”
(c) 2017, by John Lerwill.
Next time: Part 2, Hogan’s Legacy.
The Author
John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.Comments 78
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John
How are you? Thank you for sharing this insightful leader with us.
“Billy Walker, by the way, wrote that the best coaching he received was from the senior players Frank Barson and Clem Stephenson when he (Walker) arrived in the first team.”
So little had been spent on quality experience at Villa over the last few years, who were the senior qualityplayers left that younger players could look up to? Pretty much speaks for itself.
“It had [in recent years] become the system to get a young player and put him in the first team; if he had the ‘guts’ he made good; but if not there was nobody to help him. That was what the game was suffering from.”
Perhaps, it has been a bit like that at Villa in recent years, especially when the club captain prefers to go nightclubbing than turn up to the game.
You’ve written a good article because , to me, it highlights the kind of cultural change that has had to take place at Villa for things to start working again.
A study of history can reveal some interesting parallels, eh, Iana?
cheers John
Trouble is now we have media coverage on footy 24/7. ex players lining up in the media telling us whats the best formations, who should run where etc muddling everyones mind.
footballs football. a simple game, give 100% and concentrate and be as fit as you can and you have half a chance!
Morning each,
JL interesing write up. I read a similar one regarding Bill Shankley when he took over a second tier Liverpool in 1959, its out there on the ‘net and worth a read.
At that time only players with the right “attitude”or “heart” as BS put would be signed for the club and a work ethic was employed that served the club through the boot room era.
I dont believe we’ve ever had that at AVFC. We had a wonderful opportunity during the Ron Saunders era, but no contingency plan in the event he left, Champions of Europe in ’82 relegated in ’87 the outcome. Before my time as a supporter, but I get the impression that was the case when Joe Mercer was manager in the late 50’s early 60’s, the club with an exciting young side allowed to whither on the vine after the sacking of JS, (on his sick bed at the time). Makes you wonder if this is in the blue print of Aston Villa Football Club.
I think once again we have a wonderful opportunity to build from the foundations upwards rather than the quick fix boom and bust I have witnessed since 1967.
We came close to it with Graham Taylor when he took us to runners up, another opportunity spurned.
Mid table this season, top two this time next year.
The journey continues.
Arch
Mark
You cant give up now man….you survived the learner years….we are back on the up. enjoy the ride.
There is a superb clip on twitter talking to a coach of a football team I believe. really good coach, i’ll find out who it is.
He says kids now see the instant end product of the fav player and want to be that guy straight away. he says no one in his team will play unless they are engaged in the game. they have a proper body language coach who watches the subs, players in action, training etc and unless they are intentive, listening, learning and the subs are focused on the game they aint playing.
it really was a superb interview, ill try and find a link later, is better than what I made it sound!
Nice one John.
In my young years in the game, in the 50’s, the young players learned how to play the game by watching the best players in their teams, & seeing what stopped the good football working with help from players & retired players & working to change that as a team, & we had the basics drummed into us up to the ability of those around us.
I was a defender, but was never taught how to be a forward [a sign of the post war years which were infested with military thinking].
Talent was never evenly spread at the best of times, but we were always taught to play to our strengths as a team, which strangely seems to go missing down at VP periodically.
We would have died for more technical information, to apply, but were always coached in a school type approach, to the lowest common denominator.
Rugby got better coaching in my time, but then it was a game with a different social class focus, & therefore different approach.
Nowadays with the advent of professional toddlers, it’s a rarified world they live in, so feet & ground unsurprisingly tend to be strangers.
Hello fellers,
Some really interesting comments from you all, and, yes Andrew, that clip you mention sounds very interesting indeed. I’d like to hear it.
Actually, I was planning this as a 2-part article, but I can now see it stretching to 3 or perhaps 4 parts.
What about this one…
A paper published by Malcolm Gladwell, I think in the early 90’s states that the application of 10000 hours practice can make you perform at a professional level, he was referring to golf. The hypothesis has since been questioned, interesting thought though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26384712
Hmm…..still rubbish at golf…..been practicing for twenty five years now.
Arch
JL- Is Jimmy Hogan available? he seemed to be someone that studied the game and knew how to put his ideas across.
when I was a kid a tennis ball and the street and playground taught the basics, don’t see kids doing that so much, to many cars and PC brigade at school. As for what a player needs to be better than average, awareness. It buys you time allows you to stay one or two moves ahead, you can see danger quickly and opportunity too. I was never the most skilful player, well not in a flash way, when they had keepy uppys as part of a training drill I prayed it was no more than 5 🙂
I was fit, strong and athletic and I had good awareness, I cannot remember anyone telling me anything I had not already worked out in a coaching sense. would love to have met a manager/coach with real tactical nous.
I could play anywhere but mainly in the middle, CH, CM or CF scored goals in all of them, I don’t know if you can teach awareness as such, I have seen many players way more skilful than me but its a team game and if you cant take the whole picture in you will struggle once you are among players with similar abilities. I marvel that players like Hutton are at the top level or Richards, they are typical of a lack of awareness, physically there, mentally not quite.
now have you got Jimmys number? 😉
P.S I will add when a player is anxious it closes down their field of vision to whats in front of them or perceived threat, Good coaching and Knowledge given to the player of whats required stops most of that.
Andrew- that coaches methods sound like a way of teaching concentration and awareness, when I played it was like a meditation for me with kicking 😉
wasn’t this ST75’s and steamers mate?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-hooligan-removed-head-12780633
Archie,
I gave up golf 40 years ago after giving it a good go for 20 years.
Mind you giving it up was more to do with the number of rounds (= the amount of time) required to keep your game on the up.
Golf ranges were a good idea, but there’s no substitute for actual play.
Mark,
As you might have suspected, Jiimmy passed on long ago … in the mid 70s.
MK, I remember that event, I didn’t believe it at the time, about 73 or 74. I remember the person in question, new him but never spoke to him, I dont really recall him being with ST 75 and his buddies. But I could be wrong, long time ago.
Don’t let it tarnish my reputation, I had some terrific buddies and everyone new everyone and what was happening. Not everyone was like that.
Arch
Sorry, “Knew” him….typo
Archie- ST75 mentioned that very story If I recall amongst others mate I’m sure he knew him, might be wrong.
JL- can we have a seance sounds better than Bruce 😉
Not sure on this jedinak at CB, might be fine against a big man or Wigan but I think he will struggle against a quick forward.
http://www.footballinsider247.com/aston-villa-star-reveals-crunch-talks-steve-bruce-happen/
MK, I wouldn’t doubt it then, interestingly or not the last time I saw the person in question was in the Lee Bank Tavern, Lee bank close to Bristol Street across the road from where I worked at the time, that would have been early 80’s.
I’m not convinced Jedi is a permanent fixture at CB, I remember Des Bremner played CB under Ron Saunders when needed, then reverting back to defensive MF.
Contingency measure, I’m sure.
Arch
Mark
I always felt that if they hadn’t already sussed it out there was no point in trying to teach someone as they would usually carry on their own merry way.
As for the basics, I was really talking of the basics of playing in a team, as most kids played as individuals at first, which is what they did on the street, eg: my gang v your gang, which of course taught team spirit, or was it fear.
Mark
As for Jedi, he already got caught out twice with a pass splitting the 2 CD & yes he was slow, shown a clean pair of heels in fact.
But then again so was JohnTerry, & he mostly did well.
MK
‘meditation with kicking’
I thought that was what rugby union was [plus punching & general mayhem]
‘meditation with kicking’
I once spent six weeks studying sunmudo (Zen martial arts) at this place.
http://sunmudo.net
IanG
“Nowadays with the advent of professional toddlers, it’s a rarified world they live in, so feet & ground unsurprisingly tend to be strangers.”
Sounds about right for many of them.
IanG- I reckon most teams have a few that understand and hold the rest together, lets face it Jedinak seems the only capable organiser we have, seems crazy but that is why drilling a players job into him is so important. A DM is probably the pinnacle of positional sense, wingers and fullbacks often struggle once they move away from that touch line, much harder to channel players when they can go either way and runners come from all over. I think what Jedi will find is without someone doing that job he will be wide open.
I am surprised that Bruce is still preaching play-offs while talking change
Iana- lucky man looks great fun
On the organising subject RMC was acaptain and you could see the frustration in him playing with freewheeling ayew, adomah and Kodjia 🙂
MK
I also played No8 in rugby on occasions, & the positional sense you get from that is similar & profound.
MK
I also have been wondering about who will play DM if the jedi is centre half.
Lydon is the only one I can think of, & he probably has the legs that the jedi has lost
https://www.boston.com/sports/college-sports/2017/03/21/uconn-coach-geno-auriemmas-2016-rant-about-body-language-goes-viral
MK
I wish we could sign Norman Hunter as he was at Leeds, & Chopper Harris from Chelsea.
Mind you they wouldn’t be on the pitch for long in this day & age.
Forwards & wingers had to learn how to avoid getting their leg broken, so skill very much was a requirement.
As you can tell I was a right back in the day, & you were told not to stray from the right side, & to stop the winger at all cost.
I actually scored a goal from the half way line once, as everyone else was in the penalty area & wouldn’t come & get it, & the ball went straight over them into the net.
They were telling me it was a wonder goal, but can’t own up to that as it was the old leather ball, & for distance you always just belted it hard in the direction you hoped it would go.
Ah memories, I just can’t remember where my keys are.
Andrew
Great clip mate
Grealish should be forced to watch it for 24 hours without sleep
lana
Glad it was only 6 weeks or I’d be worried
IanG I once Skyed the ball from the halfway the keeper back peddled and as it came down he was on the line, it hit him on the head and ricocheted off the underside of the bar came back on his head and out 🙂
Saw a similar goal to what you scored you definitely meant it 😉
Goals from the half-way line?
Yeah, I dun one of ’em!
Mind you, it was only a practise match!
UConn coach Geno Auriemma’s 2016 rant about body language
Well worth watching .
Thanks. 🙂
Hope we do better on sunday
Lallana is on fire & walker.
1 ex villa CH & 2 ex villa full back loans in the team
2nd half disappointing, but what a goal
Iana- lucky man looks great fun
Those pictures on the site are for the tourists. Our day started at 04:30 and lights out was at 22:30. A lot of what we did was manuel labour. The mornings were spent meditating and doing stretching exercises. After lunch we did work and the evenings were spent doing martial arts. It was fairly hard, lost 6kgs in as many weeks. Fully organic vegetarian diet. On Sunday afternoons, my room mate and I were allowed to skip the morning tea ceremony, and go into town. We’d by fish and eggs for lunch, needed the protein. After six weeks, was fit as a fiddle.
If I remember correctly, didn’t Chico Hamilton nearly pull one off in my first trip to Wembley when we lost to Spurs in the old League Cup Final, if not the halfway line it was within a few yards of the halfway line.
Sorry to hear about the crap in London, we had a similar thing a couple of years ago, one of my lads knew the soldier that was killed outside of our parliament, but then ours wasn’t armed at the time as it was a formal type of post like the guards at Buckingham Palace, mind you they are armed now. Talk of 6 degrees of separation, the flat on the Hagley Rd they raided yesterday is just round the corner from where my Nan lived until she passed in 76.
I wonder how that coach would have handled Gabby, Lescott, Richards and Guzan last year if he doesn’t like attitude from the players on the bench. Boy I like him though, and it’s so true how the kids are today, and the 30 year old kids!!!
Iana- If i was getting up at 4.30 I’d be in bed at 8 🙂 what was your biggest take away from it apart from going off vegtables?
Canadian Villan- “didn’t Chico Hamilton nearly pull one off in my first trip to Wembley”
You should know mate 🙂 sounds like you knew him well 😉
sorry mate couldn’t help myself 🙂
IanG- watched the first half they had Villa’s disease in front of goal, played well though
Hope he does well
Report: Ex-Aston Villa boss Remi Garde in line for Olympiacos job
Remi Garde cuts a miserable figure during the Premier League game between Manchester City and Aston Villa on March 5, 2016© Getty Images
By Daniel Lewis, Football League Correspondent
Filed: Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 17:44 UK
Last Updated: Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 17:44 UK
Remi Garde is reportedly close to taking over as boss of Greek side Olympiacos, less than a year after bringing an end to his disastrous spell with Aston Villa.
The Frenchman spent five months at Villa Park in the 2015-16 campaign, departing the club after six-successive defeats and with a 12-point margin on safety that they failed to recover from.
According to the Birmingham Mail, Garde could now make his first return to management in the Greek Superleague after rejecting a technical director role with the French Football Federation.
Olympiacos recently sacked Paulo Bento despite being well clear at the top of the table, and it is claimed that Garde is close to coming on board to help the Reds over the title-winning line and into the Champions League.
Garde has also previously managed Lyon, where he won the Coupe de France in 2012 and boasted a win rate just north of 50 per cent.
Mark
“…what was your biggest take away from it apart from going off vegtables?” Never went off vegetables. I was a lot fitter, and stronger in my own faith, which is Christianity. My Dutch/Indonesian room mate was the same. He’s an MD. I remember one of the foreign instructors telling us a lot of what we were seeing wasn’t really Buddhism, it was Shaminism. Like Catholicism, Buddhism would blend into many of the cultures it was introduced to, which made it more palatable to the locals, and thrive.
Hogan reckons he will forge a partner ship with Kodjia, good luck to him there I think he has his work cut out myself. Bruces vision 442? I think we need to find a more all round centre mid who can defend to Jedinaks level, Bruce seems to think he will have the same level of influence from CH cant see it, I think one of lansbury or Hourhane will or has to see the subs bench and lyden or maybe even mason see some time there. He’s out on loan but only 20 and one of the only players to be retained by his loan club. here an old link about him.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-portugal-lowdown-18-year-old-9636558
Steve Bruce last week spoke of the importance of Hogan and Kodjia forming an effective partnership so he can play his preferred 4-4-2 system – which he believes offers the best chance of promotion from the Championship.
And Hogan added: “The gaffer has brought me in and I believe his thinking is to play two up front. That’s his vision. Myself and Kodj, when you look at our goals return, are probably up there in the division, I’d like to think.
“Our defence and midfield are really solid. If we can get Kodj and I clicking, it could be something quite exciting. I think we will get clicking soon. I am confident it will work.”
If kodjer roams more and goes out wideish and Hogan holds the middle/pen box they could be great.
RHM back training….along with gab!
Andrew- Isn’t that what Bruce did? remember Kodjia out left and Gabby? point is Kodjia is unlikely to see Hogans runs, he will just be a decoy for him, Hogan needs lansbury, Hourihane, green and Adomah to see and feed him. All evidence so far says it wont work, one or the other will be sacrificed if played together imo.
This was from the summer before we baought him.
Most importantly, he knows where the back of the net is! Villa were crying out for a goal scorer last season after the departure of Christian Benteke but unfortunately for them, the purchase of Gestede never came to fruition, but if Kodjia was partnered up with former Blackburn Rovers striker Gestede then it could be raining goals in the Villa camp next season.
AND HIS WEAKNESSES?
If he has a bad day, he really does have a bad day. Some of the games that he played in last season for Bristol City, he was often classed as lazy and sometimes a little bit selfish in front of goal but isn’t that what you want from a striker?
He had a dry spell in the middle of the season where he only found the back of the net twice in 17 appearances which indicates that when things don’t go his way, it can all slow down for him in terms of the goals that he scores.
interesting to hear wyness saying we were in for some 80+ players to get the ones we did in Jan, so heaven knows what it was like in the summer.
Mark
kodjer was left of a 3 up top. in a 2 with Hogan not so much out wide but drifting around Hogan creating some space. I think they are going to be deadly. seen enough of kodjer to know he aint the selfish player some say…still needs improving but he is a bloody good player.
More concerned of horihan and Lansbury in a 442 like you say. Could be outnumbered there. Think you said yonks ago Lansbury might play they huddleston role at hull. think your right. ties in to what round was saying other day about style. wanting someone to quicken the game up taking the ball off defence and moving the ball forward quick?
we will soon find out in the rest of season how 442 will pan out!
mark re the transfers
if round has set up a player recruitment system like he had a everton then they will have scouted hundreds of players.
ill try and find a link to the interview of moyes and rounds time at toffees. rounds job was keeping an eye on eventual replacemts of current players. had his own room and at the time was scouting 5 rb who may replace coleman if he left.
Next season we will see
GK
Bree chester jedi taylor
Adomah Lansbury Hourihan Bjanson
Hogan Kodjer
if they can become a team and work like mad, that side goes up
Andrew- hope so mate because so far this season kodjia has one assist in 30 games hogan assists 1 in 25 so unless the kids and wingers step up it’s either kodjia creating his own or nothing. I would like to see hogan on his own or with grealish behind him, just to see.
Kids mids:-)
I’d hope for Green to develop and cement a place.
Agree Hourihane, Lansbury and Adomah are integral to Villa now, especially if playing two up top, which can only be justified if lots of goals are being scored.
Mark
Hourihan and adomah are the highest assisters in the league. we got that covered! along with Lansbury. will create plenty
plenty of completion on the left…bjanson, grealish, green. need cover for adomah
Andrew- so why haven’t we created that many then? they are only assists when they go in, the team is centred on Kodjia because he does the business on his own all the others don’t score from open play much, Its usually a corner or free kick delivery. Hogan plays off the shoulder like RMC did and how many did he get? would rather see him back with Hogan and then you would see how good lansbury and Hourihane are I think. nothing against Kodjia he is a talent but he may block the teams overall ability form emerging.
Mark,
Dunno where you get the stats from but I’ve seen Albert provide *at least* 2 assists to Codger – and I mean chances that Codger converted into goals. And I’ve seen Albert supply chances that weren’t converted.
I take your last point about Codger, but lately I’ve seen more awareness from him of others around, and if he can improve on that and continue to score then it would be foolish to leave him out as I see it.
Mark
we have created! abert and houihan top of the champ!
albert has assisted 6 of kodjers goals.
we will get there eventually. with Hogan now in we should convert more of the chances.
we have been guilty all season of not punishing teams. Bruce been banging on for weeks that we have to take our chances.
Andrew/JL Adomah is it? Ayew was our assists leader until he left, and RMC had the most chances created too.
Adomahs partnership with Kodjia has produced in a 433 with them playing on the counter both usually having to beat numerous players, where did I say Adomah hasn’t assisted Kodjia? or anyone? JL you say he has got 2 well he has ten all season? where have Kodjias goals come from? Kodjia mainly.
They seem to compliment each other way better than Hogan or anyone else on the team does though. Hourihanes assists so far are all in Barnsley colours bar a few corners and free kicks 2 I think in 11 games compared to 11 in 25 for Barnsley.
so far I have seen very few players put through on goals by anyone, its usually crosses which are not generally that accurate at picking players out are rarely tap ins, some are accurate most are pot luck. Kodjias one assist is his scuffed shot which went to Hourihane I think? You can’t call a pass forward to a player that then beats 3-4 and scores an assist either.
After watching this we really do have to drop him! 🙂
http://www.footballinsider247.com/watch-aston-villa-ace-scores-spectacular-goal-on-international-duty/
JL- And there is the conundrum how to play him while not subordinating the rest of the team, I think he would do very well for someone like Arsenal to give them something different but a team player he is not, smacks of Tekkers, when he performed we scored if not? even Bruce has said he is a free spirit
jL- Ironically its a big hoof into space that sets him off, I rest my case 😉
I’m surprised by Adomah stats. I still don’t really rate him to be honest. He won’t be any use in the prem, he’s to much of a one trick pony. Stats can be miss leading. He’s got 10 assists, one of those was a shot he scuffed and it ended up going to Hourihane. Another assist in the same game was because of a great header by Kodjia, the cross was actually fairly poor. Just slow and floated in, Kodjia did all the work
Same as Hogan’s goal, his header did all the work. When Young use to cross a ball, he did all the work with the pace and curve on the ball, it was easy for the strikers to just get a slight touch and goal
Frem- hello mate exactly what I am trying to say, a lot of difference between deliberate chances created that are hard to miss vs what we seem to create.
Hey frem….how can you nor rate adomah….one of my fave players….immense work rate and assists!
Kodger and hogan partnership would remind me of saunders and arkinson partnership so much.
Adomas cross was alovelly stood up ball for kodjer!
http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2017/3/22/15014394/why-albert-adomah-should-be-one-of-your-favourite-players
Codger scored a lovely goal tonight against Russia from on the left.
Jazus, by the time I wrote that you’d had 3 arguements & JL had posted the clip.
I’m a slow writer.
Frem
I used to think exactly the same about adomah, but then he started to play well & it undercut me.
Mark
You may be right that he wouldn’t be top class in the premiership, but on his day he can be a match winner.
He’s probably the most skillful player in the team, but if the team isn’t a lot better he would have no chance of being more than average except on his day occasionally.
It’s W-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l how different people can see the same thing in a different light!
Yep … it’s a bit like Westy … until you can find a better player I’m quite happy with Albert. Good attitude and a good bit of skill too.
At least with Kodija, we know what we’ve got. We know he seems to prefer being the lone striker. We know he scores regularly for Villa. I hope the experiment of playing him together with Hogan works. It remains to be seen. It’ll depend a lot on supply. If everybody can work from the same page, it might work. Guess now is the time to try.
Adomah seems to play well alongside Kodija. Powerful goal that Kodija scored against Russia. His confidence is high.
UTV
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Management And Coaching At Aston Villa. Part Two: Hogan’s Legacy
now up.
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