I have no doubt that Leeds is a wonderful city, but why is it that over the last 100 years the city has been associated with more football irregularities than any other place? It’s about that length of time ago that the Leeds City club went under after “financial irregularities” became apparent. Interestingly, though, Herbert Chapman was the City’s manager: he subsequently became famous with Huddersfield and then Arsenal, bringing both clubs out of mundanity and into great success.

Leeds United then took over the mantle as Leeds’ footballing representative in the big time, but, despite being under the management of the far-seeing Major Frank Buckley (originally of the Villa) for a time, and during that period acquiring Jack Charlton and the great John Charles, the club achieved nowt until Don Revie’s arrival. As Wiki says:

“In March 1961, Revie was appointed player-manager of Leeds United, then a Second Division club who had never previously won a major trophy. Under Revie’s management, Leeds became a major force in English football, winning the Second Division in 1963–64, the First Division in 1968–69 and 1973–74, the FA Cup in 1972, the League Cup in 1968, the FA Charity Shield in 1969, and the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup in 1968 and 1971. Additionally, Leeds were First Division runners-up five times, thrice FA Cup runners-up and runners-up in the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup and the European Cup Winners’ Cup.”

But, despite all that, Revie was criticised for the physical and often negative approach of his teams, though highly physical football was noted across the country at that time. Revie left Leeds to manage England but his resignation to manage in the Middle East after his 3-years sojopurn in that role fuelled criticism of him as money-obsessed. And there were unproven allegations of bribery and financial misconduct that also tarnished his reputation.

The Revie period was followed by the Brian Clough fiasco and then attempts by numerous former Leeds United playing heroes to get Leeds back to success.

The dour Howard Wilkinson arrived in 1988 to turn things around, and, behold, Leeds won the league championship in the last season before the Premier League was launched (1992). Notable among that successful team was a certain Eric Cantona who left for further glory with Manchester United. But his departure also seemed to bring a slide to the fortunes of Leeds, who were poor losers to Villa in the 1996 League Cup Final, an occasion that also represents the Villa’s last major trophy-winning achievement.

Over the next five years (1997-2002) Leeds United showed promise, first under the management of former Villa youngster George Graham, and then by his protégé, David O’Leary, who was sacked and arrived at Villa in 2003 for three inglorious years as Villa manager.

With Leeds’ lack of success, and the team being expensively assembled (but with heavy reliance on loans) by the chairman, Peter Ridsdale, financial troubles for the club began in earnest, and the club went into administration, the fall-out of which saw Leeds drop two divisions before their recovery to the Championship. During recent years, however, the then chairman, Cellino, was disqualified by the Football League in 2014 after they obtained documents from an Italian court, where he was found guilty of tax evasion. He was disqualified from running the club until April 2015. He subsequently sold the club.

So, that is a potted resumé of Leeds as a footballing city. A history marred by strange events, but also some fascinating periods when Leeds United possessed players that were known world-wide, such as John Charles, Jack Charlton, Billy Bremner and Allan “Sniffer” Clarke, a player from a Walsall footballing family who should have played in claret and blue if tradition had been followed. But Leeds in Revie’s day never allowed tradition to interfere with their progress. And who can forget Norman “Cruncher” Hunter.

One more note: it was back in 1950 that Villa bought a certain Cornelius (“Con” for short) Martin from Leeds United. A remarkable player in that he played for club and country as both a goalkeeper and as a defender. He stayed with Villa for six years and is regarded as a great stalwart in Villa’s past. A certain player named Fabian Delph was a more recent ex-Leeds arrival.

As to the outcome of the forthcoming match this week-end, well, it will be a tough match against another team with promotion hopes. But Villa are on a roll and I expect at least a draw.

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John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.

Comments 97

  1. Heroes-and-Villans

    Was hoping for extra time last night! One of there men did go off injured though!

    They looked a youthfull, energetic side last night, pace on the counter. Well drilled. Will be very tough under the lights at eland road.

    Be delighted with a point but got a feeling it will be bruces 1st defeat 🙁

    2-1 leeds

  2. DarrenO

    Don’t see Leeds being that great last night, it was against a very weakened Liverpool side so as good a chance as any to get thru and they didn’t. The Liverpool kids are getting all the plaudits. While league form doesn’t lie and it will be a tough game, the luck o’ the Irish will bring back 3 points as he pretends to be a Leeds fan.

    UTV

  3. Mark King

    Dor- hope you can do a Yorkshire accent mate 🙂 I think a win is in order to mark the start of a 10 game winning streak. Thanks for the post John, used to watch Leeds and Derby a lot in the 70’s on MOTD with me dad, Villa rarely got showed outside of the odd cup run 🙂

  4. Paul Pears

    Another great and informative write up JL.

    Really do hope that we can take the game to Leeds and get the result, after they put in a good energy sapping performance against the Reds last night.

    Ref Joe Bennett in the last post, would agree that, especially in the first half he played well, and put in some very decent crosses, but was up against our very tricky new boys, and defending was not easy. Still young enough to be a realy good player.

  9. DarrenO

    Finishing work shortly so radio silence until Monday/Tuesday, so to all Lifers have a great weekend, I know I will watching the Villa in person, can’t wait.

    UTV

  13. John Lerwill

    vs Leeds

    Where have all the Villa fans gone? (on this blog) 😉

    Well, I thought a draw would have been a fair result, but have to admit that Leeds seemed that bit more determined to win it.

    And , let’s face it, they gave us the best test so far this season – or, rather since Bruce arrived. There won’t be many matches like that – Newcastle being one of the few.

  14. Texas Villan

    Well, now we’ll see if the next step of our recovery under Bruce can be accomplished — bouncing back after a defeat. Had to happen sometime, and Leeds under Monk are definitively a solid and challenging side to play against (especially at Elland Road).

    I’m not discouraged, but we’ll see how the skipper handles our morale now that we’ve suffered a loss.

  15. OldVilla

    James Gill, get a fooking life and try and look at things a bit more long term eh? Why has everyone jumped ship on here? – because of the stupid negative comments. How many games have we gone without losing and not a peep from you. Our first loss which had to happen some time and you creep out of the woodwork and come out with the normal crap.
    I’ve said it before and this time it will be the case – I’m out of here and leave you to the negative garbage you spout.

  16. Heroes-and-Villans

    Haha some fans seem they actually want us to loose!

    Back in the real world a tight game poor first half all round but draw the fair result.

    Poor goalini was the difference and adomoah had to thake his chance.

    Roll on jan when bruce will buy…gg and westy not upto it.

  17. Paul Whiting

    Glass half-full….couple of Gollini blunders were the main difference. I listened to the radio as I was driving and it sounded like Leeds didn’t have many chances.

    Half-empty….little to no attacking threat. Why set up for a draw against any team in this division if you have ambitions of promotion? Defence is woeful…Amavi can’t defend and was constantly beaten by the Leeds winger…as he was destroyed in the PL last year. Hutton and Elthick are shocking. Gollini…ouch…when he’s bad, he’s bad. Kodjia hardly got a mention on radio comm…why is he played as a winger?

    Poor old Xia needs 6 or 7 good players in January.

  18. Mark King

    well alls quiet on here and I can’t understand why? is it fans being negative? fans having a pop at at fans or just a lack of interest? who knows hey, all I know is nobodies posting and other blogs are ten times more negative.

    I thought that on Balance we should of won, we had the chances GG and adomahs and westy’s shot that probably should of been squared to gestede. I’m afraid a few injuries probably changed the plan, RMC, Bunn,Grealish all injured in training caused a re-shuffle late on. Gestede just does not have the mobility to replace Kodjia and Kodjia is wasted on the wing chasing back. He doesn’t give Amavi much chance as he’s always going to attack even if Amavi has raced forward, Green would be ideal if we are going to play with Gestede and wingers.

    The back four coped ok until there first shot/header on goal, but I do get the feeling Chester isn’t as comfortable on the left and that also did not help Amavi who is basically our attacking threat down the left, the pairing of him and Elphick does not look as solid as him and baker. baker is our best header of the ball at the back, Leeds had a few giants on the pitch and with a goalie that doesn’t dominate the box its hard work for the CB’s. I thought that also meant Jedinak was on double duty being the only decent header of the ball in that area.

    I think we missed Grealish’s threat because he retains the ball and gives us a rest and threat which generally gives us free kicks in dangerous areas. It was interesting to see both GG and westwood closing down high up the pitch, only thing was it was done singularly not as a team, that is hard work and I’m not surprised we tired. Westwood actually had his best game this season for me.

    I hope Bruce realises that although Kodjia can play out wide he does it best from the right and being our biggest goal threat should really be more central and able to drift where he wants, if its not broke don’t fix it steve.

  19. John Lerwill

    Mark: – Yes, I go with your comment.

    Andrew: – “adomoah had to take his chance”: a “chance” that was actually deflected by Green round the post but the ref did not give a corner! I thought Adomah did exceedingly well to get into that position and it was possibly Villa’s brightest contribution to the match.

    A match of defences really. And Gollini hardly had anything to do until they scored with their first attempt on goal … Gollini looked bemused that the ball was coming his way!

  20. John Lerwill

    Andrew,

    Still can’t agree with you about Westy … he played 2 or 3 pretty good passes that might have produced more and that shot of his had to be well saved. Apart from all that he harried well.

  21. Mark King

    JL- in slow- mo you see Adomah shooting against Green when lifting it over the keeper was entirely on considering he’s already gone to ground and committed himself, if that had been kodjia its in IMO. for the life of me, why play counter attack and have gestede up top and your best forward on the wing? that baffled me. Ayew for all his foibles will track back why not start with him out wide and Kodjia down the middle if grealish was injured?

  22. John Lerwill

    Mark, I agree with you on what Codger might have done at the finish, but I thought that Adomah made the chance for himself pretty well. Whether Codger might have been able to make that kind of chance for himself, I don’t know.

    I agree about the strangeness of Gestede’s selection, particularly given that he didn’t get any service at all.

  23. Paul Whiting

    It’s quiet because people have no energy to watch/follow error-strewn football that lacks entertainment.

    People are also tired of looking at the team sheet and seeing the same poor footballers who were woeful in the PL. Gary Gardner….even Paul Lambert recognised that he isn’t good enough. The summer recruitment was poor value for money. How many of the teams in the top half of the table have Villa beaten?

    Gary Monk rightly claimed that his 3 midfielders dominated Gardner, Westwood and jedinak. I’m not typing the names again of all the poor defenders that Villa have. Look at the money spent for the end product. Jordan Rhodes….buy 2 fullbacks that can defend and run at a similar speed to the opposition, rather than the prikks we have now.

    If you want to come on here and defend these players as acceptable then that’s okay, but expect people to respond with irritation, or not at all as is now happening.

    Ymmv

  24. James Gill

    oldvilla
    how many games without a peep
    my post was to steamer not you and your know all buddy robbo,yes my posts are negative but as a villa fan their is not muchto be positive about and when i post i dont abuse fellow bloggerslike yourself with nothing else in post
    bruce showed yesterday with team selection why he will never be good for us every club he has managed he has left them worse than he took over
    this used to be best site to read or comment on but yourself robbbo and andrew know better than every one else and unless agree with you we are wrong

  26. John Clark

    I was only listening to the game, but overall it didn’t sound bad. Sometimes you lose. As Texas said, it’s seeing how the players respond and what Bruce learns.

    On Gestede, my guess is that he was in there for size (attacking and defending) as much as anything. Kodjia on the left might well have been about match-ups for him and Adomah. I agree with everyone that he would seem to be best used in the middle.

  27. John Lerwill

    Paul/James,

    Whatever the failings of the squad may be, at least it’s a much brighter picture than 8 games back when the only game we won was against a lowly side (Rotherham).

    And yes, we have beaten a side in the top few and on their ground as well: Reading. The other 3 such matches we’ve played are Leeds, Blews and Brighton and 2 of those 3 matches were draws away from home.

    And we;ve done that with Westy and GG in the squad and played often. Jedi yesterday did not play as well as he has done of late, which was a pity – but he has by and large shown up very well.

    The players Villa have are mostly good enough for achieving the play-offs in the Championship. I agree that they won’t do if promoted, but we’ll face that when it happens.

  28. Canadian Villan

    The game was live on BeIn Sports over here, didn’t actually get hone until 10mins before half time but watched the whole of the second half. And i don’t care what any one else says, Westy had a pretty good second half, must be the new haircut, and that was the best I’ve seen from Hutton in a very very long time. If Gollini hadn’t come rushing out flapping his fists at dead air, it could have been a different ball game. Why do they insist on trying to punch a ball when catching the damn thing would be more effective? Because of that stupid rush of blood, we then had to change tactics and push every one forward because we were now chasing the game. On the whole what i saw was pretty damn good, and we at least deserved a point.

  29. James Gill

    johnl
    its hard to be positive with bruce in charge we have played 8 games ,4 on tv and bar brighton we where 2nd best in other 3
    i am with steamer on gabby no way does he deserve another chance
    plus hutton westwood have played for mcleish [hutton only ] lambert sherwood garde and rdm and caretaker managers guess what all have failed sacked
    don t always agree /disagree with you john but dont start abusing you for your thoughts most time enjoy reading your posts

  30. John Lerwill

    Canada,

    Yes, I think Gollini was flummoxed. He just did not seem to be ready for what happened i.m.o.

    Now if that had been Nigel Sims in goal (1956-64), he would have come flying out and punched the ball off the forward’s head with one hand.

  31. Mark King

    I think Jedinak had to much to do having to clear in defence and midfield and it seemed to me GG and Westwood had licence to join Gestede down the middle. It was quite end to end stuff so he had his work cut out, that said the whole team made errors.

    Can’t see the point of moaning about our players myself they are what they are, of course Chelsea are not going to sweep in for them in Jan but thats where we are. A quickly planned and executed remake in the summer was always a gamble, if we want to rebuild and be good enough for the prem then we need a plan and time, neither was available in June. Hopefully round will have the scouting sorted for next summer wherever we are along with a plan.

    JL- adomah did well don’t get me wrong but if you look out left you’ll see kodjia hugging the touch line instead of cutting in to help or get on the end of a rebound to far apart to be effective, gestede arrived in a taxi 😉

  32. John Lerwill

    James,

    I mostly disagree with you but at the same time I see the drift of your arguments. And also I think we have to give SB a fair try … at least he has turned things around somewhat since 8 games ago, and with players he inherited.

    But what SB has achieved may well not have been deemed acceptable if he’d taken over, say, 6 years ago. It’s that we’ve had mostly such a poor past 6 years that SB’s record since he came almost seems like something great to me!

  33. Mark King

    I may be wrong but Gollini doesn’t seem like a talker, I would like a more proactive and vocal keeper , it helps defenders no end. He’s young and rarely do young keepers come good until late twenties, its that experience thing, just like CB’s. One day he will be a fine keeper but not right now in such and important time, poor idea by RDM and co, pantillimon was supposed to be signing until the death I heard, so come Jan I think we will see another keeper.

  34. Paul Whiting

    John,

    But the point about Blues, Reading Brighton, and everyone in this league except Newcastle, is that the standard is woeful and if you have ambitions of returning to survive in the PL then you need to be beating most of them.

    What is the plan to get out of this division and launch a credible attempt to stay up? That’s what people do not see. Where was the logic in spending 12m on fat boy McCormack when he is 30 and has never interested a PL team? Where is the logic in playing Kodjia on the wing? I could go on forever? Elphick turns slower than milk.

    I cannot ever look at a forum again where there are people who think Alan Hutton is acceptable. Even Lambert despised him…Lambert looks better by the day.

    Enjoy happy-clapping the mediocrity as the club sinks lower.

  35. John Lerwill

    Paul,

    Until your last para I was in some sympathy with you! 😉

    But the thing to bear in mind is that none of these players are SB’s, and yet he’s at least got them winning some. In fact, 2 or 3 of the players are really talented, but it’s clearly been difficult to get them to work as a team … so SB sticks to simples to try to get results.

    BTW, we didn’t lose to Newcastle at VP, and I was not greatly impressed with them either.

    But apart from all this, we have just lost our 4th match, and that’s less than Newcastle. Only Brighton have lost less than us. I for one don’t think we’ll lose more than 2 or 3 for the rest of the season, and if that proves to be the case and we win more rather than draw, we’ll be in the play-offs.

  36. John Lerwill

    P.S.

    You say that the standard is woeful, but I thought Leeds showed quite a lot of solidity and some skill. I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up in the top two.

  37. Heroes-and-Villans

    Hey james, im certainly no know it all and who am i to argue with you man… We are 15th in the championship!!

    I have said a millon times im no massive bruce fan but his record here has been great!

    Like to see bruce play the set up we play at home when away.

    Negatives so far id have bacuna over hutton at rb and no tisch given a game.

    Strange how bad elphick has become, need baker back. Grealish going to be big big player for us. Need to keep him fit. Never start gestede again which we all know. Hope bruce knows now, doubt we will see that again.

  38. Heroes-and-Villans

    Games coming up thick and fast now, table will change loads. Its ridiculously tight.

    Dont know why its so queit on here, everyone thinks differnt and thats fine….we are all villa fans end of day and should remember that. No need for people to stay away.

    Me and the old man used to fight like cats and dogs over villa, but loved the man and was my best mate. Can still disagree

  39. Heroes-and-Villans

    Paul

    I see the plan as slowly re building the club and imo re building it well. We are getting it right at the top and that will work down to the pitch in time.

    New cb, rd, cm in jan and we wont be far off play offs.

  40. Mark King

    well how can I say this, anyone seen a team in this league that would do well in the prem yet?
    me neither and that includes Newcastle who have now lost two on the bounce. Its a tight league and hard fought and The board did its best to hurriedly put together a champs team not a prem one. I remember last season being told how the champs is different and how a prem team wouldn’t cope with the pace of it and the physicality. Worse still the team we had was going to drop through the league, at the moment its no walk in the park with teas coming good then fading away just as quickly, we do have a few quality players but not a tight team, the right buys in jan will help, feck me de laet would of helped, the fat lady hasn’t even began to warm up yet.

    paul don’t be so melodramatic man.

  41. Paul Pears

    Agree with most of your comments MK, and feel that unfortunately, Tommy Elphick, is the weak link in the defence, and we need Baker back asap. Westwood definitely had probably his best game, but decisions from the officials were poor, and Villa should have had a penalty, and the corner could have made a big difference when Adomah hit Green with his shot…..How could possibly have not been a corner. Standards in this league are pretty poor.

    Thought Bruce could have made a better team selection and taken the game more to Leeds, and we should have at least a couple of our best youngsters on the bench.

    Still a long way to go, but I am sure Bruce will not make the same mistakes again, as he knows he needs to at least make the play offs, if not better.

  42. Paul Pears

    Just been watching the highlights of Bournemouth v Liverpool, and the similarities of Liverpool being in charge for around 70 minutes of the game, and then Bournemouth, eventually looking more dangerous in attack win it, very much like Leeds and Villa yesterday…..

  43. Paul Pears

    Worth watching Deeney and Jenas discussing the change in Wayford’s play and why they are not scoring goals now…very similar to a Villa when they do not go direct.

  44. Heroes-and-Villans

    Marki disagree about the prem and champship.

    In the prem there is alot of dross. If we went up id see no reason top 12 10 couldnt be done.

    Boro, sunderland, hull. Palace west ham burnley baggies could all be caught up easily.

    In the prem you have utd, pool spurs, arseanal city chelsea everton they are way off the rest is beatable

  45. Mark King

    Andrew- wba in 7th at this point but your right its all do-able with the right approach carry on as we have done then its not. I do feel that Bruce wants to stick with experience while all around us we are playing teams with decent youth in them, leeds midfield 3 were younger than Jedinak on his own 😉

    Xia reiterated his plans to the times and warned the likes of manure of the coming changes in the game, I hope he didn’t give the team a talk again ans scared the shit out of them 🙂

  46. Mark King

    Andrew- as you disagree who do you think would do well in the prem? all of last seasons are scraping around the bottom sunderland who could not buy a win are 3 points off burnley, west ham and Leicester mind are in a false position you’d think but thats the prem last year it was Chelsea and manure

  47. James Gill

    mark k
    how many of our players would get in a side in pl,
    gollina amavi chester
    adoamh wasn t rated by boro as been good enough yet one of our better players

  49. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    Villa, Newcastle, brighton, sheff wed, leeds, Norwich forest under new owners could all stay up in the prem imo. stoke, palace, west brom, foxes west ham saints have all shown it can be done.

    And I think the championship clubs have potential to be bigger!

    Id say chester, baker, jedi, amavi, grealish, ayew, kodger goalini adomah could keep us up in the prem.

    What is our downfall is midfield. we would need a class box box mid and a class mid who could score 7 – 12 goals and assists.

  50. Mark King

    well IMO it is just that potential, its difficult to outgrow your support, big clubs are big world wide these days, Xia realises that and is going to use every means to get us exposure and income, being in the prem and getting big money is not the be all and end all, being big in your own right is. £100mil for being in the league is nice but the likes of manure and Liverpool could still be in this league for nothing and survive, thats where we have to get to that £250-500m a year income.

  51. southwestvillan

    Leeds away was always going to be a difficult place to go a very intimidating ground which Darren will probably tell us about when he gets back.
    We can all disagree with the Bruce good or bad argument, my view is he is here to get a job done to get us out of this division by whatever means it takes and if people think stylish football is going to be the way to do it then I advise you to think again, you can play football but you also need grit and balls to eek out results against teams who are very resilient.
    He is going to need a few new faces in January and I like the structure being put in place that sees our recruitment is not just down to one man, I like what Steve Round is doing behind the scenes with the backing of Tony Xia.
    In eight games we have lost just once a good run by any stretch but just see how far we have moved in the table, this is an unforgiving league with a lot of teams who can beat each other from top to bottom, there are a lot of games to play and the table will change dramatically over the coming months.
    Lets hope we are there and there abouts near the top come the end but it is a very big ask seeing as we are having to re-build the club in less than one season after years of damage done by Lerner and his henchmen.

    SWV

  52. John Lerwill

    SWV,

    Top rate comment, there, mate.

    Yes, a pragmatic approach was needed, and Bruce’s appointment seems to have fulfilled that need.

    One or two are talking about the likes of us being “happy clappers”, but I think we’re just being realistic. Bruce may not be the most ideal appointment but i.m.o he’s made more progress than anyone else in the past 5 years. We’ll just have to see how far he gets.

  53. James Gill

    john l
    bruce is not a manager to build a club, yes he may get us up but he will not be good enough to keep us there,what was sherwood record in fisrt few games in comparison at higher level,this bottom half of championship we are playing at now ,and another comparison wally with brolly took over derby and has picked up more points over same amount of games played, in the 4 games on tv only brighton could we say we played well, rdm sides against derby and forest i thought we played well hit the post bar missed chances looked a decent side
    even lambert managed a win at this level

  54. southwestvillan

    John,

    I cannot be accused of being a happy clapper I just want what is right and good for our club, I have been depressed by these years of decline under Lerner and we need to start that climb back to the premiership, I even get the Bristol City fans having a pop at me down here especially after they took us apart 3-1, is there no escape from BCFC.

    James,

    You may be absolutely right about Bruce not being a builder or even if he is good enough for the premier, the job in front of him is to get us up not build a legacy we must use Stoke as an example in how to achieve this, they got promoted years ago and year after year they have dismantled that promotion side and steadily added some quality while boosting the bank balance, if you had said a few years back that Stoke City would be in the mix for £30m players they would have strapped you into a straight jacket and tied you to a seat in the Tilton Road end.

    SWV

  55. James Gill

    sww
    wish i could put in words like you
    stoke are great example of a well run club everything we where not under lerner, all i want is promotion as quick as possible, but bruce playing gabby does not give me any confidence at all, in bruce ability to get us up
    what is their 28 league matches left we need a run like burnley last year,and to do that we need a new rb ch 2 midfielders and get a combination out of all strikers minus gabby

  56. John Lerwill

    James,

    I’ve already said that it’s unlikely i.m.o. that we’ll lose more than another 2 or 3 matches this season, and if we can win a minimum of 14 of the remaining 27 matches with 10 draws that should produce a play-off position (77 points).

    The production of that number of points in 27 matches will demand a bit better results than we’ve seen this last 8 matches, but it’s do-able.

  57. southwestvillan

    James,

    I may not have 100% faith in Bruce but I feel the foundations Steve Round is putting in place should give us confidence that the right personnel will be signed come January, gone are the days when one man has complete autonomy over the playing side, yes Bruce will have the final say he is the manager but the players will be scouted and vetted to make sure they know what is required to be a Aston Villa player.

    Again you make a good point about Agbonlahor and one many of us agree with but Bruce is the manager and he will succeed or fail making these decisions, he must have had discussions with the Chairman before selecting him and yes it leaves a bad taste in the mouth but we are just fans or customers as some idiot pointed out a while back, we can voice our opinions but ultimately the club will be run by Tony Xia, Steve Round and the man they have put in charge , scream and kick as much as we like but that is the way it is, Dr.Tony has spent millions buying the club and it is for him to run it has he seems fit, so far I like what I see but having said that Lerner was not a difficult act to follow.

    SWV

  58. John Lerwill

    SWV – on Gabby…

    Let’s not forget that we have a couple of strikers away in January on Cup duty, so I’m sure SB is weighing up the available players very carefully.

    In my view, Gabby shows more movement than, say, Gestede. Each time he’s come on as a sub he’s caused a worry in the opposing defence. So, if he can do some kind of job for Villa, why decry his presence?

  59. southwestvillan

    John,

    Go along with what you say about GA but some people cannot forgive him for being a big part of our demise over the last few seasons and to be fair that is difficult to argue with, he is supposed to be Villa through and through so we expected him to run through walls for his beloved club not throw big parties after we have taken a hiding, but this one has been done to death and I do not want to resurrect the debate.

    I think in January we might see another striker come in with Rhodes and Hernandez as possibilities, definitely more midfield players with a defender and even a keeper recruited, taking on board what Round has already said I would think they are lining up players as we speak.

    SWV

  60. Mark King

    jl- if we did not have a very quick, skilful goal scoring alternative in the youth set-up who cannot get a run I’d say fair enough we are paying the shyster but we have and he will probably leave because of that in the summer without finding out if he can cut it, scored goals at every level and plays for England u19’s. when Kodjia goes we will miss his goals not him running about a lot imo.

  61. Mark King

    SWV- I doubt its Hernandez but you never know, was offered £75 thou a week and £125 thou if we went up, his agent wanted £125 thou now!!! unless we can swap him for gestede and a balti pie

  62. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    You have made the point about youth vs Gabby before, have you not, and I’m not denying it is a point to consider.

    However, it usually takes time for a young player to settle in (unless he really is something else!) and that being the case I’d go for Gabby any day, despite the risk.

  64. Mark King

    Point being we will need goals, Murphy scores goals gabby doesn’t, even at youth level, and missed a pen at that, but lets not go into that again 😉

  66. Texas Villan

    Mark: “I may be wrong but Gollini doesn’t seem like a talker” … I agree, and I wonder how well our Italian keeper speaks English? That’s been a concern of mine since we signed him.

    James Gill: “their is more of a goal threat from nigel spink than gabby.” Haha, good one, mate!

    IMO had Baker been on the back line, we wouldn’t have surrendered at least one of the Leed’s goals, and quite possibly could have kept a clean sheet.

  68. John Lerwill

    Mark: “Point being we will need goals, Murphy scores goals gabby doesn’t, even at youth level, and missed a pen at that, but lets not go into that again “

    Well, since you’ve brought it up again, let’s *do* go into it again! 😉

    Gabby *was* a proven scorer – and many cracking goals too – but too many managers have done something to him i.m.h.o. It doesn’t mean to say he can’t score … and neither does it mean that Murphy will score when if into the first team. Gabby at present is still re-building his game and even if not scoring I see him making a useful contribution – including making chances for others. Which he has done and fairly frequently too.

    In Villa’s position – with the targets being set by the chairman – pragmaticism wins (I’d say) and thus that experience has to win out over youth – unless the youth is really something special. Maybe sadly, as I would like youth to come more to the fore as well. So it’s not that I disagree with your point of view from one angle, but more trying to see it from the view of the chairman who, frankly, I’ve got some respect for.

  69. John Lerwill

    Texas: “IMO had Baker been on the back line, we wouldn’t have surrendered at least one of the Leed’s goals, and quite possibly could have kept a clean sheet.”

    Yes, you and Mark are right i.m.o. that the Chester/Baker combination is a significantly better combination than Elphick/Chester. But, there you are, if injury gets in the way you have to play the other, and I’d say that Elphick is not a bad sub. However, he wasn’t bought as that, of course!

  70. Paul Pears

    Garry Monk has revealed Leeds United’s early season defeat to Birmingham City has played a part in their promotion push.
    Leeds lost 2-1 at home to Blues in mid-August prompting Monk to deliver an important pep talk to his young squad.

    Since then the Elland Road club have steadily climbed the table and leapfrogged Gary Rowett’s men into fourth place in the Championship by beating Aston Villa 2-0 yesterday.
    Monk traces a change in attitude back to that meeting and believes his players have started to perform with more confidence since then.

    I am sure that Bruce’s effect on the Villa squad has been similar, having now started watching the game in full, realise that there was no “pen”, but also that Westwood was virtually in a new role and playing much further up the pitch, just behind Gestede .

  71. Texas Villan

    I’d like to make the following point:

    The Yam-Yams are currently sitting 7th in the Premier League table, yet a few short weeks ago they were worried about their season turning into a relegation scrap amidst widespread calls for the sacking of Pulis. In addition, as far as I can see, Kodjia, Adomah, Grealish, Baker, and possibly Jedinak are all at least as good if not better than their respective West Brom counterparts — and that’s almost half of squad!

    The quality difference between teams in the bottom 10 of the Prem and the top 10 of the championship is almost nil.

  74. Mark King

    this is from a recent game in November when he scored but got injured

    “But the forward is growing with every passing week.

    He hurries and hassles defender and doesn’t give them a second in possession.

    His bursts of pace are hard to handle and difficult to read. Those quick feet of his can see him dazzle defenders in just a few simple moves.

    And crucially, he’s finding a way to make an impact on games.

    If you can score goals you can make a difference and Hepburn-Murphy certainly does that.

    With his future still up in the air, where he will be playing his football in 12 months time is unknown at this stage.

    Villa rate him highly and want to tie him down to a long-term contract.

    So far a new deal has not been agreed and there are clubs waiting to pounce.

    Hepburn-Murphy is still deciding what he feels is best for his future.”

  77. John Lerwill

    Mark: “JL- have you seen Murphy play?”

    I’d only seen him play in both the times he came on as a sub for the first team and even on those showings you could see plenty of promise. And the video link you provided shows greater evidence of that.

    But it doesn’t change my p.o.v. I’m afraid.

  78. DarrenO

    May seem like water under the bridge at this stage but here is my assessment of the Leeds game and I’ve yet to watch it back on TV, which tends to reinforce opinion.

    I was seated about 4 rows back from the Leeds dugout also very close to the away supporters, thank god.

    First half was dire but that was down to both teams, it was a case of prodding their defence on occasion without committing and they were doing the same which meant congestion in the middle of the park and two passengers for keepers. The other passenger was Gestede, despite playing the target man, he was getting very little quality ball into him but being upfront alone meant he’d either no licence to drop deeper to try and do something himself or didn’t have the intelligence to do so. A brief respite from the dross was served up by a streaker. Neither team knew each other and weren’t prepared to take any risks.

    Villa fans were in fine voice in the first half and my favourite chant was about Jimmy Saville, would have loved to have joined in but wanted to keep my seat for the next half.

    Second half and the expectation was that the next gear would be engaged and start testing this Leeds side. Monk probably had the easier half time talk telling his players to expect more from Villa and get them on the counter attack because we gave away possession so easily. Midfield was pathetic, our defence played well throughout the match affording them little opportunity.
    Villa fans must have fallen asleep because there wasn’t much noise from them. The Leeds stand nearest them was making more noise and when they scored the Don Revie stand woke up as for it being intimadating nah not really, just lads who can’t hold their drink shouting the odds

    Grealish offered a bit of energy on his arrival, Ayew just doesn’t influence games. Gabby was typically atrocious, TV doesn’t justify the little impact he makes, it was good to see that my opinion that he shouldn’t be near the bench was correct. At one point Westwood seemed to be operating as a striker, not sure if he had enough of being in midfield or was just chasing the ball.

    The problem with Villa is still entirely in midfield
    Adomah had very little support and was trying to beat a very organised Leeds defence on his own
    Gardner – didn’t add much beyond the same roles of Jedinak and Westwood in breaking up play
    Jedinak – won as much ball as he lost
    Westwood – doesn’t look comfortable even at this level
    Kodija – complete crime he is played on the wing

    Steve Bruce needs to get Grealish on from the start, impact the game early and then consolidate with more defensive substitutions, Kodija needs to be upfront and has the legs to do it on his own. The lack of midfield imo accounts for proven goal scorers at this level like McCormack and Gestede to look absolutely pedestrian. If there is an agenda to get us promoted midfield holds the key.

    Got my wish per a previous post to see how we react to being beaten, can we quickly turn it around or feel like we are back to square one, over to Steve Bruce. Seen a lot of over-reaction to the result with every player being sold and called every name, reality is we are far from the finished article and will probably need another season to consolidate and get good at this football thing, thankfully Steve Round has started laying the foundations.

    In the airport myself and a buddy started singing Villa songs to be met with silence, you’d think having won they would have been able to muster up a chorus of ‘We are Leeds’. Happy that at least we support the Villa win lose or draw.

    UTV

  79. John Lerwill

    DO’R,

    Funny how different people saw the game differently!

    OK, I was limited to what TV showed me, but perhaps TV also shows some things more finely than when you are at the ground. For example, I saw Westy do a lot more than you intimate. No, I’m not a great Westy fan, but I do think he does far more than people say. There are quite a few Villa fans who think similarly, though a lot don’t.

    Football is a lot to do with opinion, of course.

  81. DarrenO

    Hi JL

    No benefit of replays or a commentator identifying the nuances of the game that I’d miss but for Westwood it was a lot of action but no end product, if he was providing back up to Gestede that may account for me viewing him as disorganised in the game in that he was chasing where the ball was sometimes from upfront positions but neither provided incisive passes or a stand out crunching tackle to win the ball back, just seemed to be haranguing Leeds players. He may not play well in a three but that should resolved in training in terms of learning his role, does he support Jedinak in protecting the back four or supply ammunition for our forwards, if he is caught between two stools, it’s doing him no favours.

    Midfield is a general issue and not just Westwoods. Need changes there in January.
    I almost think playing with the 5 in midfield is Bruce’s way of getting his own players in Jan while protecting us from being beaten too much.

  82. John Lerwill

    DO’R,

    Sorry to argue but I saw Westy play 2 or 3 extremely good balls that could have caused havoc, but didn’t.

    I know, ‘you’ either like him or you don’t, and we just seem to take different views on this.

  83. Mark King

    DOR- thanks for the insight sorry you didn’t get the win to go with your day out mate. weirdly Westwood appeared to have his best game in a long while on the tele, Him and GG seemed to be pressing high up the field and both supporting Gestede’s flick ons while Kodjia languished on the wing ( crazy stuff) Glad you said the defence played well I thought so too. maybe using Westwood and GG to support Gestede messed the midfield up to much as neither have the legs to do that all match?

    You commented on us attacking first half with Grealish and I’ve come to the conclusion thats not the champs way (think of all the games under RDM) and seemingly not Bruces, he does seem to like suss teams out before going for the jugular, unfortunately we were making to many errors all over the pitch for me and when we needed to go for it it just wasn’t there although Grealish tried.

  87. DarrenO

    No problem with arguing, my position in the ground was very low down, not restricted view but some of the passes mentioned by you or Mark may have been lost in a see of players as positives from Westwood

    I’ve yet to watch it back, i’m looking forward to getting some time to do that, not least to see if my mugshot made it to TV 🙂

  88. James Gill

    mark k
    as a centre midfield player you should be involved in most of play,but you never see westwood take a game and dictate play ,at this level even, its not as if he is up against ramsey toure matic of this world

  89. Mark King

    JG- lets be honest we have had Delph and Milner that could dictate games occasionally, then its back to Barry. None of our recent mid-fielders have dictated anything and sometimes mid-fielders don’t, they are jut a cog, Thats Westwood, is there any point in berating a jack Russell for not being a greyhound? as sure as eggs is eggs he won’t improve if he’s booed, chances are he won’t be here for long if we go up anyhow.

  92. James Gill

    john l
    was it the same ones gave ireland player of season few years ago
    the sad thing i can remember ireland bannan pires hogg kea all having decent matches ,scoring goals winning tackles ,making things happen . westwood has played over 150 games for villa and couldnt say he would reach double figures between the same

  94. John Clark

    So…random giveaway: two tickets to see the Super Furry Animals play their first two albums, in their entirety, tomorrow night at the Roundhouse in London.

    Just reply here if you or anyone you know is interested. I’ll send over the form authorizing the taker to pick them up at the box office.

    Gutted I can’t go, but purchased in a moment of madness and optimism that I could get over for the show.

  95. Trinity

    Hello all..
    Cannot log in with my computer. Don’t like using the phone cause it burns data fast.
    Looking forward to a win against Wigan.
    Disappointed with Leeds game. .
    Keep up the good work.
    Thanks, John.

  97. Trinity

    John, thanks for the well balanced write up.
    Hopefully, Leeds were just a hiccup. I think so.
    Wigan, as you wrote, should not be taken lightly, but Villa have to win well.
    Villa 4-1.

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