The honeymoon with Brucie went pop on that night at Leeds. And the next match, at home, seemed to suggest that there was a hangover, but when the late late great winner was planted by Jack, I would have thought that heads would have cleared and that the Villa bhouys would have gone to Norwich ready to blast them out of the water. After all, the Canaries’ recent form was none too good and they started the match nervously.
So what is it about the Villa? As there are so many non-nationals in the team, do they not understand Brucie’s Geordie twang, and have they taken his demands for more as a personal affront? Well, the answer must not be so simple as the locals Jack and Gabby (and Villa fans to boot, we are told) scarcely put a foot right on the Norwich pitch. And Gardner has not exactly set the place alight either. The whole thing is a mystery.
A wrong team selection has been mooted as a possible reason for the dim display, and as Albert and co. (the subs) showed a bit more urgency and finally inspired a shot on goal, then maybe there’s something in the team selection reasoning. But if that is the case then what is a squad for? A squad is surely there so that when there are fixture pressures it does not matter so much as the manager should have options he can trust. But it looks as though he cannot (trust the options).
So maybe the issue is as a lot on this blog probably suspected, that the lack of hungry players on view is the wake up call for clearing the decks and bringing in the talent from the reserves to show their expensive counterparts (and the locals whose heads have got too big) what’s what. And to bring in equally hungry players in the January ‘window’.
It appears to me that the whole idea of rebuilding a team from simply spending money is totally fallacious; last year it didn’t work, so why should anyone think it would work 12 months’ later? Well, different owners and managers may possibly account for the error, but Bruce (for seven games at least) did manage to pep them up to raise some hope. Perhaps the reality check has come just at the right time?
Now we will see what Bruce does with the team at QPR. He has threatened he will bring changes, but what changes (apart from re-installing Bacuna and Tshibola) can he introduce right now other than the young players that have not even been on the bench of late.
I have a fear that I may be accused of not recognising that times have changed, but there was an old Villa principle that lasted for the best part of 100 years that the best system was to rear your own players from young and only buy in when it is absolutely necessary. The only time in that 100 years when that approach was dispensed with was between 1928 and 1936, when huge amounts of money were spent for those days, but the eventual outcome was relegation. The old method was then quickly reintroduced, so why has it been so easily rejected again?
I beg to suggest that old methods should not be dispensed with so easily. Yes, I now agree with those that have been calling for youth: it would seem the time has come. The lean and hungry brigade deserve a chance.
The Author
John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.Comments 231
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JL- Thank you mate
I can’t fault what you are saying we lack fire and directness in our play, I’ve seen enough of our youth to know they have that in spades, most of there losses have occurred when their better players are dropped for 1st teamers to get minutes. Of course we can’t put them in wholesale but 2 or three is possible. if we are going to limp to may then lets have a look at them because from what I’m seeing lately the 1st team are not up to promotion.
Also is Ayew short of match fitness? pissed off? or just not wanting to get injured for his holiday in Africa?
PS- 5-6 are due back from loans this Jan including Toner and mason
just me then? 🙂
Yes, Mark, I was a -thinking of Toner in particular. Useful player I thought.
mark k
i think ayew biggest problem is the recalling of gabby, bruce results and performances before gabby looked better
ayew and amavi where here for xmas video and along with that codja has been shunted out to wing to accomadate gabby
they say one rotten apple rots them all
John, Mark
Agree, they should use and develop Villa youth, not cheap youth from elsewhere. That didn’t work did it?
Villa needs to get its confidence back. There are a few proven goal scorers at Villa, but not many goals are coming.
Villa, at the moment, seems to be in a state of apathy. The players don’t seem hungry enough.
Agree Brucie needs to play his players in their positions. Kodija is a centre forward, Gabby is past it as a starting player. Ayew is looking forward to Africa. Jack is Jack. I think Jack might play better if other Villa youth were playing, not that Jack is so young, now.
Villa needs to win the next two games if promotion is still the main goal.
Good on the faithful Villa fans.
trinity this article on our forwards resonates with me
http://www.myoldmansaid.com/aston-villa-key-promotion-cant-find-door/
Mark
Exactly, that excellent article probably articulates exactly what most of us are thinking, and if Big Ron is saying it, it is a bit of a dig at Brucie, a warning. It is common sense really. Goal scorers get you out of this league, so play them where they will score. Fancy making space for Gabby. What a farce. Gabby used to be useful when we had the likes of Barry, Young and Milner.
Mark,
Makes you wonder whether Big Ron should have been brought back as manager! 😉
Yes, his comments seem pretty relevant now but I applaud Bruce for trying out something. However, the Rudi or Gabby thing just doesn’t seem to work (and Rudi probably thinks he’ll be out of the door in January anyway). And what’s the point of playing Rudi unless you have strong wing support to give him heading opportunities? It’s not too often that we see a good centre going in.
JL/trinity I think gestede cannot work without a partner simple as he is not mobile enough and as
John says where are the crosses? to much putting the big names in on the wings when we have green who is real winger and to much using fullbacks when we are fragile at best most of the time, makes no sense to me. stay basic 442 would suit . could even go 442 diamond grealish behind kodjia and RMC jedinak at the base and green one side adomah the other
That’s right. Mark. Green on one wing and Adomah on the other with Kodija and McCormack in the middle. Like you say, keep it basic. Enough of the experimenting. I hope Tshibola gets a run soon. He just needs a bit more polish. Dr X said Villa policy will include more young players coming through. Hopefully they have seen the folly of persevering with Mr Aston Villa Will Pay the Fare.
Agree, just get McCormack and Kodija in the middle, Green and Adomah on the wings against QPR. Jack behind them.
QPR are very beatable. It’s a hard place to go, but QPR have lost their last four. I’d be tempted to play Bacuna.
yes McCormack and kodjer up top. Our goalscoring record for the league we are in and the amount of striker we have which cost a fortune is a disgrace. Need to fix that asap if we want playoffs.
Bruce want 20 points from next 10 games.
could tell early doors bruce targets 2 points a game. He targets win at home draw away.
welcome lana mcfayden
nice to see new poster don t pay no heed to some who claim it has to be all positivety on here
please on sunday no terrible 3 in 18 man squad lets see villa win on telly
gollina
bacuna amavi
chester baker/elphik
adoamh jedi tish grealish
mccormak codja
attacking changes from
ayew rudi green
welcome lana
Young lad called davis has signed new deal.
Andrew: “bruce targets 2 points a game. He targets win at home draw away.”
But he’s *also* said: “Now we probably have to do more than two points a game now if we’re going to get anywhere near the play-offs.”
Welcome Iana,
I feel that Bacuna back on the right of midfield would improve us, as he has skill, speed and can cross a ball.
My team would be Gollini Hutton Chester Baker (if fit) Amavi Bacuna Jedinak Ayew kodja McCormack Grealish.
We should then be able to attack with goalscorers in the firing line and a reasonable midfield and a solid defence behind them.
See the Rowett business was all over QPR and him wanting a new contract, but more recently refusing to sign it.
ah didn’t read that bit john! Will take some doing!
Cant wait to see the line up sunday and the reaction of players.
Paul,
I see that there’s some optimism that Baker will be fit for Sunday, but he’ll probably be on the bench this game. Because of Elphick’s status it may now be hard for Baker to get back, which is a pity as we’ve lost 2 since Elphick returned.
Can’s agree on Ayew *and* Jack though. I’d perhaps include Jack (and hope!) but Ayew to my mind does not help the team going forward one bit. Even his free kicks are usually dire.
No I would prefer Vacuna to Hutton and include Adomah and Green.
My preferred team (but can’t see it starting): Gollini; Bacuna, Chester, Baker, Amavi; Adomah, Jedinak, Grealish, Green; McCormack; Codger. Murphy as a sub to be first on.
Brucie sets out his stall…
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/qpr-vs-aston-villa-steve-12332584
Nice to see even John has no room for Westwood this week, his performance at Norwich doesn’t even warrant a seat on the bench.
Welcome Iana, a new angle every now and then freshens up the debates.
its a long time since most people on here want 9/10 same players out of first 11
Canada: “Nice to see even John has no room for Westwood this week”
Well, I’m in fact always open to his deselection as I don’t see him as the perfect answer.
But my gripe is the fact that Westy gets a lot of flack when I don’t see this player (usually) doing that much wrong and working hard. Doesn’t mean to say that I want him in except perhaps as a sub to offer energy if that commodity is flagging.
I feel at bit for Elphick as the two losses coinciding with his return take the eye off the rest of the team and the less than Stella performances in midfield and up top. That said Chester on the left has been caught in midfield for at least two goals and the midfield in general has been poor in closing down crosses. Elphick isn’t the quickest so the other night he backed off and the player got his shot in but that was all brought about by Gabby losing the ball and the midfield not dealing with the consequent run.
As Bruce has said the performance level of the team has dropped last game (but I think its the last three) and he even said the Leeds game was his fault for changing formation to much, he then changed it at Norwich again?
Mark,
But the confidence and smoothness that Chester and Baker displayed (which has now been upset) can have contributed to the team’s effectiveness as a whole. Chester playing left and Elphick do not seem to work as well as we’d hope.
And let’s face it, forwards and midfielders have always made mistakes that put pressure on their defence, so maybe it’s a bit ott to blame Gabby unduly for that one, though I’d agree his contribution that match was virtually zilch. But he was far from being the only one.
China’s Ambition
Well, with Chi9na now willing to pay out £400,000 per week for players like Costa (with Fabregas also maybe going), I wonder how long before the Premier League gets drained and we get back to good ol’ fashioned British football! 😉
JL- I have no doubt its a contributing factor but so is gabbys inclusion don’t you think? he’s been involved like Elphick and that means someone else isn’t, I also think We have loosened up a lot recently pushing mid-fielders on leaving Jedinak to cope, this started at leeds with gardner and Westwood pressing high up the pitch, the last game was apparently our first attempt at 433?
we lost at leeds with gabby and elphick, won at home with elphick lost at norwich with Gabby and elphick? correlation is not causation so we are told 😉
JL- Wonder how much Westwood would get in china? on the other hand if he stayed he might be the best player left in the league 😉
Mark,
No, I really can’t think why Gabby should be targeted here. He was playing as a lone wolf striker, did not get any service and therefore why should he be singled out?
The thing that does puzzle me is that if you are going to play Gabby and Codger you’d put Gabby on the wing – that’s what he’s mainly been doing this past 3 or 4 years and perhaps he would be of more service there at this stage in his career.
john l
gabby
i goal in 31 appearances for gabby doesnt hide what ever way anyone dresses it up he is a lost cause
westwood
norwich showed how poor he has become, whether the pressure has got to him i can t say
but in any match he plays we struggle big time no presence in midfield, even tho i think bruce set up at norwich was horrible
you cannot start with both ayew and grealish in the one team, think ayew was as bad as anyone on tuesday
James,
I said put him on the wing … not as a striker. He has been played out left for some time before Bruce came: as you say he now seems lost as a striker. But no service doesn’t help.
john l
me i would put him on boat lol
have to our service to strikers is a joke
JL- no service doesn’t help the strikers I agree but it hasn’t stopped codger scoring, we don’t exactly create loads, gabby in that position has proven time and again to be profligate even when he gets a chance, Bruce thinks he’s a forward so of course it effects the games outcome otherwise why play him, equally the midfield have left elphick exposed several times in the last two away games at home he helped keep a clean sheet one of several with him playing. At Norwich 4 players had the chance to snuff out the attack that they scored from starting with Gabby giving the ball away and leaving us exposed, its a team game.
what I think is Bruce has made Gabby his crusade going on his memory of gabby playing against his teams, he’s not that player any more
Mark: “no service doesn’t help the strikers I agree but it hasn’t stopped codger scoring”
Sorry, I specifically meant the Norwich match. I can’t recall one point when Gabby could have taken a shot … the ball never came to him around the box as far as I remember. There was one occasion when he nearly intercepted a pass back to their keeper, and that was it I believe.
Mark: “what I think is Bruce has made Gabby his crusade going on his memory of gabby playing against his teams, he’s not that player any more”
Yes, that was my thought too.
JL- when he was taken off for Adomah and we changed things up chances came, prior to that nothing, its not all his fault but a striker has to plough the right channels, Gabby is a bit headless
Mark,
Well, you could say that when Gabby came on in previous matches that “we changed things up”. Gabby made in impact as soon as he came on in two matches.
No, regardless of Gabby’s shortcomings the fact remains that our midfield and supporting forwards are mostly not good enough – and Ayew and Jack quite profligate in not making good enough and even rank bad passes. Jack by himself *might* be OK, but the two together certainly not.
Anyway, I see that Norwich lost at home last night so that underlines how bad we were on Tuesday. A bit unfair on Norwich that they had to play matches so close together, though, but at least they didn’t have to travel.
Daniel Johnson outstanding individual goal for Preston…..
Buy him back in January…..and Robinson…..!!!
No favours for Villa today…
… we’re now 9 points adrift of the play-offs. Until tomorrow of course! 😉
And even then, winning will keep Villa in the same place, unless Villa can win by 3 goals, which will put them into 12th on the league table. I doubt Villa can score enough goals. Villa need to win this to stop a slide that will make promotion a pipe dream and to get an away win to make up for away losses. Villa needs to win at home and win or draw away, but Villa is losing too many now. The fans expect more from a team that isn’t clicking yet. losses against QPR and Burton will turn many away.
UTV
lets start our run now bruce with a side with no
archangel gabby
ash on the park
mutton on the grass
but plenty of fire in the belly, goals in codja ross and adoamh jedi to rule the roost with the baker at the back
come on the villa
Well goalini dropped and no tish. They are both done for imo. Must win
Villa should be ahead.
Shame about penalty, but Kodija is working very hard. QPR seem to hold the ball better. I don’t know.
This game could go either way.
Ross McCormack has been absolutely useless today.
I don’t believe he has done one single thing right.
Awesome from Kodija. Fully deserved goal.
thank god for codja only one really trying
Ref having an average day.
Gabby on. Ross not influential at all. Can Gabby do something useful?
tony h
in fairness our midfield bar jedi is non existant
codja chases everything
another win for bruce but god its awful to watch,his use of gabby and westwood is really odd
Yay, a much needed away win, and kept QPR goaless. Kodija was awesome for his goal , mom performance. Chester was staunch at the back.
Thought the first half was a bit poor, but Villa were clearly the better team in the second half.
They’ll need to follow up with a win at VP.
Great win for Villa!
Sensible team from Bruce….Good to see Bunn having such a good game….maybe the difference of having a well marshalled defence in front of him, but he was a much more confident keeper…and will probably now keep his place.
I understand Bruce’s substitutions…he did not want to change a lot, once he got in front. He also wanted to protect Kdija from injury, etc.
Gabby knows how to hold on win…that is what he was needed for…and Westwood for Gardner was sensible to see out the match.
Let us hope that this is now onward and upward…Solid team…solid selection…and Bacuna will offer more..
Great for Kodija to get his Sky man of the match…!!!
Paul, agreed.
Bunn was very solid at the back. And Bruce made logical subs. Bacuna played well too.
a wins a win but RMC as a lone striker? still to little on the chances/shots on goal and poor movement, I did like Bunn was brave and alert
MK,
RMC was not a lone striker, although maybe it seemed that way, but KOdija was with him, and Bacuna and Adomah playing wide when they could, with Gardner and Jedinak in the midfield.
RMC did try but was not quick enough, or able to move the ball on much…he really does not fit.
James: “another win for bruce but god its awful to watch”
And there was me thinking the team played 300% better than what turned out at Norwich.
Defensively and in midfield Villa did well i.m.o. – particularly first half.
Only player who contributed little was McCormack as I saw it.
I think this was a much, much better performance with a much better balanced team. Some way still to go, of course, but it wasn’t bad.
Lovely Amavi pass crossfield to Hutton first half – did you note that? QPR were expecting a pass-back but Amavi fooled ’em all.
And don’t Chester and Baker together make a big difference?
john l
it was awful to watch,qpr had lost 4 in a row,how many real saves did qpr keeper make bar the penalty,couple from edge the box and rudi terrible effort at the end
this league is really poor,and as of yesterday only bottom 4 in pl have less points than we picked up last season
john l
can anyone give a reason why gabby gets on the field,bruce smacks of way lambert managed use older players first ,did gabby make one contribution when he came on ,yes ross was god dam awful too but our midfield makes it so hard gardner very poor ,bacuna was put out wide when his better performances have came when is more central,our full backs never put in one cross for ross to feed of
James,
I dunno, you and I seem to see different matches! 😉
And also please allow for the fact that changing over half the team doesn’t always work as well as it did.
I agree with your point on Ross, though, but maybe he’s just a misfit at Villa? The best answer for him is probably to leave – sadly, as I don’t think he’s a bad player.
All the other Villa sites seem to have the opinion that it was a good solid performance by Villa, and what we need if we are going to force our way into the play-off positions, much like Brighton’s performance yesterday against the Noses.
Very happy with Baker back in defence, and Bunn’s display in goal. Jedinak still needs to improve his distribution, and Gardner needs to have more vision, but would like to see improvements on them in January, if possible.
Is it me, or do people only have a lot to say here, when we fail…..????
john l
i look at who we are playing ,
wolves blues leeds norwich qpr all awful football on our part ,brighton newcastle decent part displays
yes a lot of changes but all for the better ,
we cant pass the ball to one another ,set pieces are awful
yes we where never under any pressure
but standard of football is real low
PP-seems to me that people can’t say what they see without getting criticism for being negative so they don’t post. We beat a very poor QPR today or Kodjia did again, thats 2 wins against bottom dwellers both 1-0 and two losses to clubs above us, can’t say I’m that enthused because if the way we are playing does not improve drastically and we don’t start to create some well worked goals vs individual efforts we will continue to struggle, not being negative I’m made up we won but it turgid stuff. RMC is not Kodjia and needs team-mates to see his runs, there was no central forward today to occupy the CB’s all game or RMC to play off of, we could of been 442 433 4231 for all I could tell.
we won but need to beat or at least not draw with those above us while beating the rest because the aim is not rebuild its promotion.
Glad to see Bacuna given a chance again, as I requested on here a few days ago — seems like he put in a decent enough shift. A midfield three of Jedi, GG and Bacuna seems to hold its shape better, and certainly breaks up opponent’s play better. Bunn is probably a better choice right now than Gollini. Don’t understand why Ross and Gabby got playing time but not Jack.
JG I agree mate the goals seem to come by some whim of fate rather than a solid formula or worked on set piece
Texas gabby and Bruce both go to the same fat fighters club 😉
Texas,
I just don’t understand the big thing about Jack …
Yes, a very good late goal against Wigan, but please tell me what else he’s contributed apart from gaining us a couple of penalties! OK he’s scored a couple of other goals too, but in terms of providing goal-scoring chances for others, what has he done? He and Ayew are mysteries to me … they flatter to deceive.
I really thought that we played our best team today, though Mac looked out of place.
First half was worrying but we played pretty well second half and the score line didn’t really sonus justice.
Great to see Baker back . . . he and Chester make a solid and committed pairing. We forced several good saves from their keeper (the penalty should have been followed up by Mcormack who so badly needs a goal!)
I don’t understand the continuing whinges about Hutton. I’m probably missing something, but he seems to give his all, is pretty solid in defence and always ready to give us an outlet down the right hand side.
Felt more secure with Bunn at the back today but it’s probably unfair to judge as he was barely challenged due to the solid performance of those in front of him
Mustn’t underestimate Burton next week.
Yes of course we ‘should’ beat them, but the Burton Mail always reports on Burton Albion and . . . Villa. They’ll see this game at Villa Park as their cup final and if we’re complacent, we ‘will’ lose!
Positives. Won away and won on sky! Been years!
Chester quality, jedi working like a dog in mid on his own. A win for the great away fans.
Negatives what the hell is wrong with tish???!! He must of killed someone to be behind gg and westy. Which brings us on to the mid or lack of it. Aint going up unless we buy 2 very good mids. We cant pass, keep possession which means the attackers aint getting chances and the def under pressure and its shit to watch…,dreadfull to watch. Gabby coming on for a few mins is the least of our problems. With kodger going we are stuffed unless we do very well in the jan window
MK,
Glad to have a response…..maybe JL and I have seen some really dire Villa teams over the years, as well as some excellent ones, including some great players.
I agree that it would be great o see some silky slills, passing and greatly constructed goals, but at this level, it is not really about that, which is why when watching highlights of the championship, it is difficult to find each week.
It is going to be a long haul, but if we can get back to the Premier league, not sell off our crown jewels, as we have in the past, then we may compete with the Man City, UTd and the Gunners.
I am sad when I see so many of our ex players of the lst few seasons, who now still do a job for other clubs, but somehow they were not good enough for Villa!
Burton game sold out. 42k
Only problem I see with Tishbola, is he was too easily knocked off the ball, like Helenius, and may just need to be stronger, especially for a midfield role in this league.
I am surprised there are not more positive comments about Bunn today, who, although he did not make many saves, but came for some very dangerous balls, got them and held them. Did not hesitate once, and was much more assured than I have seen him before.
Boxing day should be a great atmosphere with a packed stadium….amd plenty of Xmas cheer……..!!
Baker and chester look real solid. And fair play to bunn looked ok. Big call that from bruce paid off.
Win next 2 home games i may….may believe again!
Bunn
Thing about him was that he stayed awake and anticipated … like that save in the first half to prevent a goal that looked’ on’ for one second.
john l
your comment on jack and ayew is partially right we cant afford both at one time but then gabby gets game time and yet barely touches the ball apart from giving it to norwich to score
as for bunn for me last year we got better results when he played and i would have been happy for bunn to start season definitly see no point in bruce wasting a wage on utd number 3
john l happy with the result but it was only qpr we beat and not very convincing at that plus gabby playing he adds nothing apart from weight
James,
Well, since Ayew and Jack have not done anything much creatively (and they are supposed to be creative players) I don’t see why either players should be played until they buck their ideas up.
Gabby at least looks as though he wants to be involved, even if we don’t see much resulting from his efforts. It’s the attitude I’m getting at – Gabby at least tries, the other two I spoke about just prance around as pretenders!! 🙁
Well, when you change half the team I don’t think it can be expected to work out 100%, but actually I thought this team looked the best balanced selection I’ve seen this season. Bar McCormack – he seems to not have a place at Villa, sadly.
Today, the combinations worked very well … Chester and Baker … Jedi and Gardner … but still a bit weak in midfield though.. Bacuna wasn’t bad either, and Adomah always makes me think he’s going to do something special. Hutton had his best match yet and Amavi was full of ideas. And Codger kept plugging away to get his goal – he wasn’t too pleased about the penalty ‘miss’, which was more to do with their keeper who played a very good game. Their defence was also pretty tight, so I don’t think we should be unhappy about just a 1-0 win. It could so easily have been 2 or 3 to nil but for their defence/keeper.
Today was much better than the Norwich game i.m.o. But I agree they must do better.
sky have showed our goal should not have stood because gabby feet where inside line taking a throw,
i don t get where gabby puts in a bigger effort than jack yes with ayew and as i read somewhere else we where a goal up and wanted to keep the ball and bruce sends on rudi who couldnt trap a bag of cement
Gabby came on to cause problems for their defence, and he is more capable of coping with defenders, the same reason he put Rudi on, who would also be useful heading the ball in any last minute set pieces for either side. Bruce was mainly protecting his squad from picking any last minute injuries or disasters.
We need everyone fully fit for the up and coming run of fixtures…its all about resunts now….that will please the fans more than anything…
I’ve read a couple of articles saying that our goal shouldn’t have stood because Gabby made a foul throw.
What a silly non story.
Yes it was a foul throw and clearly so, but it wasn’t called by the assistant so play carried on and the goal was valid.
Take a look next time at how many player’s feet are on the line when they take throw ins, see how many shirts get pulled, to name just two infringements and you’ll see how few goals would be valid if we went back a minute before every goal was scored.
Every game would be a 0-0 draw!
Phew – we got the win
where would we be without Kodjia – we will soon find out
keeper – centre backs -amavi -Jedi – bacuna andd koj all played well
ross was completely missing and gabby offered nothing – i dont get what the gabby fans are seeing because i saw better quality at the ryams league game i attended yesterday
i am sure we wont go up without 3 or so upgrades to the first team
it also worries me that bruce seems to love some aweful players that we have in our ranks
hopefully its just for show and they will be replaced in the window – if not we will not go up
There are suggestions that Amavi could be off to Everton or Marseille for £10m.
Why would we sell a player that we need, who has 3 years left on his contract, who has said he wants to stay . . . . for no profit?
runtings
Having no Kodija is a scary thought, especially since Gabby and Ross are not playing well. I think. Kodija can create his own goals. We have to hope our opposition lose their best players too.
Mark
I agree the first half was poor for all the points you listed. The second half was a lot better from Villa. QPR were pretty poor, but when did Villa last win there?
You are right that Villa still has a long way to go.
It’s a different site without the likes of the Steamers, Jenny and B62 posting, a shame-miss them. Steamer doesn’t mind a bit of criticism, does he? Hope the Steamers are well as can be. I miss their humour, and they always answer questions.
Where on earth is Jenny?
Robbo
Shame if Amavi goes. He’s improving. The foul throw is a silly irrelevant story, would have been news if the goal had been disallowed because of it.
Pity there was not as much fuss about the penalty for Jedi almost losing his shirt….but then Villa are not a London club, although we are the most televised.
I do not see why people are worrying about the likes of Gabby, as Bruce is just making the best use he can of him and other players….better players will be recruited when we need them. This is a very dour league, where brute force counts for more…just look at the pushing/shoving/ kicks/ shirt-pulling….etc QWe have quality players in JG, Ayew and Tishbola, and Bruce will use them at the right time, but at the moment it is tough grinding out results business.
Last time I had contact with Jenny, she was very busy with her business, but will be back on here soon.
I am sure the Steamers will appear at some stage….If only to put us right, when we get the facts wrong…
The best thing with the Steamers is to tell them there is twenty quid behind the bar if they make fresh contributions for the next posting……/!!!
True, Paul. Don’t they owe Mark £20.
As usual a good post John that attracted a variety of comment. I just logged in when some of it had been overtaken by events after last night’s game (well it was night in Thailand).
Especially for Paul – Bunn was good with a strong defence – these things go hand-in-hand. Adomah and Kojia threatened but often with no support.
What was McCormack doing on the field?
We will be in dire need of a striker in January, as depending on selection for national squads we could lose Kojia, Adomah, Ayew and Gestede
as per usual mr know all comes back after a win over the mighty qpr and picks out a point
gabby foul throw was just to point out he can not do even the most basic thing on a football field the only thing he had was speed and thats gone i think it was mark k put it you watch him now he is always running no mans land neither close enough to keeper defender to close them down
(Gabby) … C’mon James, you can do better than that! 🙂
Runtings: “it also worries me that bruce seems to love some aweful players that we have in our ranks”
Bruce in one of his latest quotes said that he’s looking for people who will at least not let him down through trying. “Who can I rely on?”, Bruce asks.
So, attitude in his books is taking precedence over ability. And I’d support him in that approach.
But I don’t think that yesterday’s team was so “awful”. Villa could have won the match on penalties alone, 3-1! Codger and Jedi were hauled all over the place like bags of coal!
“Codger and Jedi were hauled all over the place like bags of coal!”
They certainly were. Kodija had a third of his shirt ripped away, and Jedinak must have thought they were playing rugby. I remember our old mate Steamer pointing out just how bad the refing is in this division, he wasn’t wrong.
Can’t wait for the weekend, cause if Villa win, the top six is in reasonable sight. Hope VP is full for the Burton match.
john l
how many passing moves did we manage, winger beat some one with skill fullback get up the line cross the ball[amavi manage one]
remember
bunn hutton chester amavi jedi bacuna all played pleague last season gardner and baker have played at that level for us plus westwood gabby and rudi leaving only out of yesterdays 14 match day squad adoamh codja and ross who scored over 40 goals and created more last season so they should be decent players at this level and 11 matches in bruce reign it doesnt look like a side that has a formation or game plan
john l
talking about pens not given what did you think of jedi elbow on can t remember which qpr player he got booked for another day it would be red plus 3 match ban
Iana,
Agree with you about the upcoming Burton match. It’s a big chance for Villa to thrill their fans, though Cloughie’s team will not be pushovers. I think someone (James was it?) who stated that the match is a sell-out.
James,
I don’t totally disagree with you, but let’s remember this past 11 games is the most successful run we’ve had in 5 years!!! It’s something (in terms of results) to be more happy about, surely?
As to how it’s being achieved is certainly open to question, but let’s just see what Bruce does in January – not that January is the best window to get much out of.
What we should definitely celebrate is that Baker and Codger have become so outstanding since Bruce arrived (Codger 7 goals in 11 matches), and the fact that Hutton is doing better than I thought he ever could! Chester has also proved to be a fine acquisition. And I have to say I like Albert … the way he dribbles raises hopes in me during the match.
James … (Jedi’s elbow)
I think it was a pure accident. Football is a physical game and I honestly think we examine it too closely these days. There are some bad players out there who will foul deliberately – and badly too – but I don’t think Jedi is one of those.
john l
i don t think jedi is one either ,but just putting another view on the ref who was shocking
yes i know its our best run in years but derby have won is it 7 in a row
JL- Baker looked class under RDM in the early games before his double injury and that was paired with Elphick. Kodjia was also in his short time under RDM consistently hitting the target and drawing saves so I think it was a matter of time for him on the goals front, I really don’t think Bruce has done anything specific to improve them or the teams play in general. We look more solid with 3 mid-fielders and the likes of Jedinak have stepped up after poor starts in a villa shirt. RMC was also creating the most chances under RDM for us, under Bruce he’s anonymous, it has to be down to Bruces instructions.
The refs are very lenient in this league and you can point to many we should of had under RDM, the 1st game of rthe season Baker had his shirt stretched to about 3ft and got nothing also players that should of been sent off didn’t go. You have to wonder that with better reffing would results have been better for RDM early on avoiding the loss of confidence we saw.
Unless Bruce has a grand plan in Jan when we lose Kodjia and Ayew I cannot see us scoring.
Mark,
Got the Monday morning blues or summat?! 🙂
James,
You’re right … the refereeing is shocking at times. It amused me that he gave a penalty yesterday for a relatively minor thing and yet let the big ones go unpunished!
JL- 🙂 No mate just my honest view, when we start looking like a team I’ll do my best happy impression for you 😉
john l
off all the pens he gave the softest one agreed
but to balance it out the throw for the goal should been blown for as foul feet over the line, plus jedi elbow so maybe we did well to come out of it with 3 points
mark k
agree bruce has got it easy compared to rdm time in charge and same amount games in cant see a style or system in place bit like lamberts time pick numbers out of bag you play and he plays and hope for best
Agree Mark – it frustrates me that we can spend 10 times more than most in this league but still cant string 5 or 6 passes together and cant keep the ball the way most of the teams we play can
the cash we have spent has left us with one true get out of jail card and thats Kodj
we are still a poor side but luckily have a bit of quality upfront
i think a couple of proper midfielders could make a huge difference to this team though and of course a right back — i like hutton as he always gives his all unfortunate he always gives the ball to the opposition as well
Just to add a little light to your life, a master class from Messi yesterday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86gIIaEFJw4
Runtings I’d be less scathing if we didn’t have examples over poorer players/squads player better football all around us. We rely on individual moments and parking the bus some plan considering we created the most chances in the league earlier in the season. I think a midfield upgrade is defo needed but then you see Johnson at PNE popping the goals in again and it just makes my blood boil.
Mark
I agree. watching villa I don’t see a side capable of going up. I believe we are creating the right set up though and have a manager who knows this league like no other. Going to be next season till I will judge him. Confident we will get it right.
This season has been to much change and unsettling. Big ask in reality sorting out our awful/poisonus squad.
Andrew- I don’t think the Dr see’s it that way, he wants promotion if possible, RDM got sacked because that was looking unlikely, the crowd unrest meant any long term plan under RDM became impossible (not that I thought he was up to much). At first Xia backed him and called for calm, I don’t see how we can now say everything is ok when we are playing poorly in mid table? so lets write off this season.
The argument that ££££ produces winning good football is a good one. I think it helps get you there quicker but no guarantess. You need stability in the main. Its hard to judge at villa because trying to be neutral for a second I have never seen such a worse run, poisonous club. We all know what the last 4 years has been like and maybe we need to remember more!
This time a few years ago when we were desperate for learner to leave and not even scoring a goal for months we all said it would take years to sort this mess out. I think its like everything we can get short memorys and want things instantly. I think finding the dr as an owner and the staff that has been put in place is an excellent start. We have only has 1 window to overhaul this terrible squad.
Mark
Yeah the dr had said he want up in 2 years. Part of rdms sacking was results and im 100% sure when round got in and bruce was available he would of been wanted. Just the right decision to make. The better footy will come when we sign 2 mids. The footy we want and see other teams play is impossible with westy and gg. utterely useless. Jedi is doing remarkable playing in mid on his own.
Andrew- collymore has said it for me we just don’t have an identity playing wise.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-win-away-stan-12340889
I don’t think Bruce is the man to bring a definite style of play to villa but just to try and get is up by hook or by crook
Agree with andrew that a couple a good midfierlders would make a huge difference to our quality of play as at the moment our current guys treat the football like a hot potato which then gives lesser opposition a chance and if they have half decent players they will take those gifts we keep giving
Runtings- and if he does get us up we have to start from scratch with no position to work from, I was hoping that we could come out of the champs with a plan. As we have found out over the years the prem is not a place to build from scratch in with any certainty
Mark
Yeah saw that from stan, completely agree. I think we will see it once bruce has his players in.
Apparently tish had a bust up with a coaching member…attitude why he is out.
Very good piece in times from winter on villa/bruce.
Exciting bit was off the field we have in place a structure that’s making prem clubs take notice /talk on the football scene.
been a long time since we had a proper identity. Good counter attacking under mon last I think of.
Gestede going palace or boro. He was at the boro match. should get the 6mill back.
runtings agree. Not being able to keep the ball is hurting us defensively and in attack. Mid such a important position, miracle really we are 6 off playoffs with our rubbish!
Must say about Baker what a player he has been. superb. Him and chester great partnership.
Johnson
Jenkinson Chester baker amavi
Jedi
new mid new mid
Adomah Kodger Brady
The State Of The Art at VP
Why do we criticise when we’re having our best run for over 5 years … albeit it’s in a lower division.
As PP said, it’s the results that matter most … the rest can follow.
11 games ago we were wondering where the next win was going to come from, but since then we’ve collected 6 (out of 11).
I accept the various statements from Mark and Runtings etc., but all we’re doing is showing impatience as I see it. Yes, Mark, I realise that Dr. Xia has high expectations, but even he has said it may take 2 seasons to get back to the PL.
I’m most eager to watch the match vs Leeds in 10 or so days time. I think the match will show how much we’ve put right since the defeat at their patch (if at all), and that the players who are showing the most commitment will justify their inclusion.
Thing is at this moment in time bruce has to get results. that’s the reason rdm was sacked. Style of play cant be first priority. When he has had 2 transfer windows and the summer to work with them the play will be/expected to be better.
Pep and wenger as assistant manager couldn’t get this lot to play good footy!
JL i think its more observations of all things villa rather than impatience however – we are not only the biggest club outside the prem but also the biggest spenders and have the highest paid playing staff — all these things together means high expectation
in our position as a club we can’t lay back and except mediocre surely — i don’t think the doc will — if we were Rotherham or the likes maybe
villa expects
Well, I was out and about with the family and managed to avoid the phone so I could watch a recorded version yesterday afternoon. My assessment is it appears tactics are for fools, it’s three points by any means necessary seems to be the order of the day. Perhaps as ever I’m too patient for this we must get promoted now or forever be dead in the water.
Completely warranted (and wanted) change so that has to be welcomed but why didn’t happen after the lethargy of the Leeds game, why is it taking Bruce longer than us fans to realise what is broken from a personnel level, nevermind some consistency around tactics, Elphick referred to not sticking to the game plan re Norwich but I didn’t see a game plan against QPR and that does not bode well if we have aspirations for top 6.
I have read thru the above posts, interesting debate, I’ve one opinion of Gabby and that he is not clever enough to trouble defences and any defence prepped sufficiently well will know the one trick pony no longer has the legs/fitness to cause trouble. I’m troubled by Gardner as I’d love to say it was an off-day but he’s never been spectacular to say that he was particularly bad just same old below average, deserves to be a professional footballer based on attitude alone but maybe not with Villa.
Would expect that Gestede would work better alongside Kodija upfront, McCormack didn’t cut it yesterday. Credit to Bacuna, Chester, Baker and Kodija, performed well.
yes i will echo the posts re chester and baker
they were very good in this match and its great to see baker turning into a quality centre half at last
we will be fine in time. Not far away at all. Next season toon and brighton will be gone…no one will be as strong as them next season in the champ.
chester baker chester and new rb will the strongest def in league. and with kodger up top one of the best goal scorers. Just saugh tout mid and service for once!
runtings
I don’t see it as we have spent so much so we should be doing this and that. I don’t think we have spent enough! Like I said earlier its no quick fix re building the worst prem side ever.
haha Huddersfield losing there manager!
rowett will be in surly!
fair play Andrew – we have different views on that
villa actually have out spend and pay more wages than some of the prem clubs and we got 3 players in the last window that were wanted by prem clubs but the couldn’t compete with villa under the docs guidance
we are much much bigger than all other teams in this league apert from the toon who’s trophy trophy count and history is not in the same class by a long stretch —
spelling , grammar 🙂
we are bigger than toon runtings mate….they just get big gates is all.
Know what you mean, expectation always there at the villa. We are on the right track though mate. So happy with the dr, wyness, round and all the other staff employed. Everyones only been in there roles 5 mins. Round still cant get over our scouting newtwork…or lack of it! Just as shit flowed down hill to the pitch under learner the goodness will now get to the pitch in time.
2 massive home games over Christmas…6 points will be amazing. Cant wait for the burton game, boxing day at vp 42k! happy days
Agree Andrew – finally we are laying proper foundations for success and sustainability
Rome wasn’t built in day – but its like man u in the prem villa in the championship – even if you are doing badly you have a expensive squad and the fans and pundits expect that you should do well because you are a big club
if we get 6 points before the window we can kick on with some buys but if we don’t its going to be even more difficult to get to were we should be and that is at least play offs – imo
Runtings: “if we don’t [win the 2 games in Christmas week] its going to be even more difficult to get to were we should be”
Well, I sez that if we hadn’t won the 6 in the last 11 matches we wouldn’t even be talking about promotion chances! 😉
JL- well I say the manner of the wins have been quite lucky at times, could of gone either way as many of RDM’s games did from winning positions. Yes we can stumble on and may even unconvincingly get promotion but I think it will be like leaning on an unlocked toilet door with our trousers down, we will be left exposed 😉
We have to get away from this here’s the players, no how can we play with them? to this is how we want to play now what players do we need? if we again add to the squad in Jan how many will then have to be discarded when we do go up playing the way we do?
Mark,
You could well be right … if things stay as they are. But I doubt if they will.
In fact I seem to differ with others in that I saw some better method vs QPR that was utterly absent in the Norwich match. Yes, QPR were rather poor (attacking-wise) but their defence was as solid as many teams we’ve faced, I thought, though they depended a good deal on dubious practise.
If we could find a really good midfielder to partner Jedi … And cover for those missing in January of course.
if we don t get out this season there will be 3 clubs down with bags of money plus the other clubs the chinese have bought and yet to start spending, thanks to tom fox we still have westwood bacuna gabby richards on long term contracts plus others on big money , we have to get up this season if bruce is as good as some same couple good buys few loans get the midfield sorted and i think the rest can fill in ,whenour mid cannot defend or attack it leaves everyone else doing 2 jobs
JL- well Xia said he was surprised how open Bruce was to ideas by that I take it he thought previously he was stuck in his ways and a bit old fashioned, if round has the last word in our playing style can Bruce coach it? I have grave doubts on that score watching our games so far. Most teams you see patterns of play not chaos because thats what the manager demands as its his ideas put into practice, if thats Bruces pattern of play I don’t want nor see any reasoning to it.
Andrew – have you got a link to the times article at all?
JL- QPR are a solid side but they are totally toothless like Wigan
john l
norwich was a shambles ,but he still used most the same culprits v qpr
James,
I’m not sure how you can say that … the main culprits did not set foot on the pitch in the QPR game.
Mark,
Yes, I didn’t use the word “toothless” but I think I said more or less the same thing. But that’s not entirely the point – Villa still had to get through what was quite a well organised defence and with virtually a reconstructed team. And though you may have seen “chaos” I didn’t see much of that, though there’s a way to go I agree. I think you and others are looking for fault, to be honest, and though I agree that what we’re seeing is far from perfect, at least it’s progress on what was there before: certainly results-wise. And we also have a manager who is prepared to be ruthless when the situation demands it.
Villa to finish in 5th place!
Well, that’s what a super computer has worked out at…
http://talksport.com/football/championship-201617-table-super-computer-predicts-end-season-final-places-161219220971?p=19
Surprisingly Preston (according to the computer) will finish 20th. The Blews to finish in 11th.
Mark ill look for the lnk mate.
Rhm to sign new 3 year deal fended off man city for him. Gong out on loan then.
Like someone said should of been on loan in summer till rdm blocked it
john l
gollina can t say how he was at fault at norwich
grealish yes he was poor but look at what he had along side westwood gabby and ayew
ayew i would put him along with gabby and co he has been useless every match i seen
not going to go over rest players at norwich
sorry john
forgot about elphik but that night v norwich bruce changed the captains armband back from chester yet in previous matches chester kept when elphik played,
Runtings
“in our position as a club we can’t lay back and except mediocre surely”
That is exactly why Villa hasn’t won anything for 21 years. Villa has been a constant also-ran and bragged about it.
James: “grealish yes he was poor but look at what he had along side westwood gabby and ayew”
Gabby we’ve talked of ad nauseum! 😉 But the fact was that he was utterly stranded – I don’t think he got any support nor any breaks, therefore not so much to blame there.
But Jack and Ayew didn’t get on the pitch vs QPR and Westy came on only very late on. I think they were the main failures at Norwich.
JL- “I think you and others are looking for fault”
No john as I said just my opinion, the fact it does not align with yours does not make it invalid or vindictive. I could say you are so glad to get some wins you don’t care how they are achieved 😉
Clive
Great footy from Barca and Messi. Thanks for the link, and great talking to you.
Mark
I appreciate your opinion and the opinion of all others, even if I disagree. Agreeing to disagree makes for interesting discussion.
There is quite a range of opinions on here, but perhaps more interesting is how they have already shifted over the first half of the season.
At the start of the season a good proportion of people on here believed that we had our worst squad ever and we were destined for a double relegation. After the first 10 games I doubt if many were feeling more optimistic and If you’d taken a poll of our likely end of season position I’d guess the average would have come out somewhere around Holloway’s prediction of 16th or lower.
Ten games later there’s still a broad spectrum of opinion, but the average prediction is now probably around 7th or 8th with a good proportion now thinking we’ll make the play offs.
There’s only been one really significant change and that’s the manager.
robbo
True. I’m optimistic that Villa can get to the playoff spots, but the footy isn’t great.
Iana, if anyone was looking for evidence that people are more optimistic about where we’ll end up in the table it’s that there are now concerns about ‘how’ we play.
A couple of months ago the strong consensus was that we didn’t care about the style as long as we started winning games.
Under rdm we were trying to play some nice football with intricate passing and nice little triangles and I remember being excited at times about how things were developing. We (and rdm) were unlucky in several games, hitting the post, conceding late late goals and just not getting the rub of the green. The trouble was, as the poor results mounted up, the fans, and more importantly, the players, lost faith and rdm didn’t seem to have the man management, character, or coaching skills to turn things round. Things were getting worse rather than better.
Bruce is far more pragmatic. Players know their roles, he’s keeping it simple and we’re getting results.
What’s most important now? Getting back to the premiership or playing attractive football? Chelsea under Mourinho were ‘not’ good to watch. Even when we lost 8.0 at their place, their crowd were subdued and the Villa fans were more vocal than the ‘ locals’
But. . . they won stuff.
There’s a growing consensus that Bruce can win us promotion this season or (more likely) next, but a concern about whether he’s creating footballing foundations that can succeed in the premiership. I suppose it depends how you define success. Hull and Birmingham have had some of the greatest premiership success under Bruce ( if you judge by their highest league positions) so he is able to build teams to compete at that level.
Dr Xia says he’s been impressed by Bruce’s adaptability. Right now I’m happy still with us winning games (first league game won on Sky for 23 games is the latest milestone).
If he can get us out of this division that’s good enough for me. We can enjoy the luxury of arguing over style of play once we’re established back where we belong, in the Premiership.
The dr has said rhm not involved cause he aint committed his future with us. Sign the deal villas plans for him will start. Hardball, i like it villa.
Re style of play…..you ask palace fans whats the best footy rhey have seen. Simon jordan said last night bruce underated should be englabnd manager. All the palace fans respndded best footy they have seen under bruce…..same with wigan fans.
Rhm scored a worldy last night
Mark: “No john as I said just my opinion, the fact it does not align with yours does not make it invalid or vindictive. I could say you are so glad to get some wins you don’t care how they are achieved”
But my statement wasn’t so much arguing with your opinion and certainly wasn’t suggesting it was “invalid or vindictive”. But I do think that you (and others) are not giving the situation enough time, and after all the issues of the last 6 years, it *will* take time.
And yet you ask whether I care how progress is achieved. Well, yes, of course I care, but at this stage what we’re seeing has to be expected at this stage i.m.o.
Why not give it chance in the spirit of r0bb0?
JL- “Why not give it chance in the spirit of r0bb0?”
maybe John this is me giving it a chance, have I called for his dismissal? he is not beyond criticism is he? As Robbo also pointed out RDM did not get the rub of the green, I think in a lot of games Bruce has, the last two wins have come against poor opposition without much attack, the other two we lost against teams that looked more solid than us so where was this making us hard to beat Tactic of Bruces? most of what I have seen is parking the bus and wing and a prayer and thats my honest appraisal, could you honestly see Rafa sending his team out to play like us? Newcastle play very basic patterns and keep it tight.
Also John I have seen these players play better football so I know they can. By all means stay tight but move up as a team and support each other. Adding an extra midfielder makes us more solid but we totally sacrifice any attacking strategy as a team? how can that be? The tweak we needed was mental mostly and only that one detail of tactics required yet we are abysmal at keeping the ball and moving to receive it. These are professional footballers and to be honest nearly every single team we face plays better football than us yet we are told to be patient?
I’m told Bruce is the champs genius but when you can remember Ron Saunders teams and ron Atkinsons, John gregories, Brian littles this is like Sunday team football, is it to much to ask for professionalism? these lot have been at it all their adult lives, think they should be capable by now.
good point robbo – and that leads me to what i have believed for many years which is the manager is the most important component for success
Mark,
Well, of course Rafa has had 8 or 9 more months to get his squad and methods sorted out … Bruce instead is having to do catch-up and not with his players.
It is clear to me that Bruce is trying to do his best with what he’s got. It’s great to me that he’s seen the deficiencies of Ayew and Jack but is backing Baker who, btw, has come on more since Bruce arrived i.m.o. Bruce was a c-b and I think he’s planted a couple of well placed words in Baker’s ear.
I’d hope that Bruce can stick with the team that played QPR except maybe change Gardner for someone, but I can’t think who!!!!!! But to have as few changes as possible now would be good … he can’t (and won’t I imagine) keep on choppin’ and changin’.
We’ll get there, Mark. And the supercomputer said we’ll be in the play-offs, didn’t it? 😉
Talking about rub of the green, in Bruces first game Richards and Elphick got injured allowing Baker to play and Cissoko gave away two pens in two games thats him out and Amavi coming back from injury gets up to speed so there’s your defence. Meanwhile the biggest improvement in the midfield has come from Jedinak finding form after a poor start and numerous international flights, and Kodjia up front after a few weeks of consistently hitting the target after he came in at the end of august. Kodjia is now a one man goal machine who mostly creates his own chances.
For me those are the main changes, if they are all down to Bruce recognising something and changing it fine but to me it looks like a little providence and players finding form after coming in late. Bruce main asset is his charm offensive, the players seem to like him.
JL- the super computer also put PNE in 20th 😉
jl- and Rafa brought in 12 players in the summer so yes he had more time but he has by no means had 9 months with the players he has
And why hasn’t he had a word with Elphick ? 😉
Mark,
The point about Rafa is that he created a blueprint to work to and then signed his own players. Bruce hasn’t got started yet by comparison!
On Elphick … maybe he’s not of the same calibre, period, whereas Baker has the talent (I’ve always liked him in fact) and just needed to make a couple of adjustments – I think.
Did you refer to Bruce’s “charm offensive”?! Just raw Geordie grit i.m.o.!
JL- the two main assets for a defender beyond the physical IMO are awareness and positional sense which you either have or you don’t (peripheral vision), decision making comes with experience. so you are saying Bruce has improved Baker in a few weeks but can’t do the same for the way we play as a whole, maybe he should be our defensive coach instead 😉
JL-My point is Rafa still had to get them to play his way, wheres Bruces blueprint? are you telling me most of this team cannot play the Bruce way?? Round is supposed to set the style and scout the players, how will that work this Jan?
would love scott hogan from Brentford, him or Glen murray would be great for us
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-scouting-report-who-12345769
Andrew- half of me thinks good on Xia over RHM and the other half says we need goals and we are giving Gabby game time, the Gabby decision is supposed to be practical yet we can afford not to give a talented player a run??
JL- on Elphick why was he so highly thought of by Bournemouth? and by Eddie Howe who made him Captain? I think the answer is in his injury record of late, he’s had back problems which is never good.
A serious question folks and then I’ll leave you in piece, what is Steves Bruces style? I could tell you Warnocks or howes,wengers etc but I seriously don’t know how his teams play other than the hard to beat mantra.
Iana McFadyen- hi Lana sorry didn’t reply earlier been busy with JL 😉 yes we need differing opinions or its just an agreement of how wonderful or bad things are, I wish a few of the differing opinions would post again, their making me look bad 🙂
ps- Sorry about spelling your name wrong I have dyslectic typing ability 😉
Dr has been speaking! said 1, amavi staying. 2 going to put up pics and min silence of ones lost before burton game. 2 youth set up being re built, kids will get a chance but no more silly mistakes.
Mark
I think Bruce teams like to be powerfull, pace at least one good winger crosser.
More horses for courses than many managers….will change tactics formation game to game unlike say klopp, poch.
Good piece by robbo by the way and don’t worry mark your not the only one with concerns re bruce.
I just think he is the best man for the job right now…
I don’t think there is anyway you can compare villa to toon or any other club.
We are rebuilding the whole club from top to bottom! Its a massive undertaking, long time to do.
Take one minute to remember getting thrashed every week…eric black in charge,learner in usa and cant even remember who we are. tom fox pretending to know about footy. and lescott, guzan and micah keeping things tight at the back! We have come a long way in short space.
elphicks legs have gone simples, my nan in her wheelchair can turn quicker.
Mark re RHM
Well a decision has to be made and they have taken a strong stance it seems. sign the deal and we will give you a chance/out on loan.
Could backfire ala pogba!?
Mark…
“the two main assets for a defender beyond the physical IMO are awareness and positional sense which you either have or you don’t (peripheral vision), decision making comes with experience. so you are saying Bruce has improved Baker in a few weeks but can’t do the same for the way we play”
I would think it is commonsense that you cannot necessarily change the whole machine in a short period, but you can adjust some of the cogs. And “the way we play” has come about by Bruce trying to find the best (i.e. most committed) team to play with the resources that he has at present.
“My point is Rafa still had to get them to play his way, wheres Bruces blueprint?”
The point is also, Mark, is that Rafa has had that 9 month period and has brought in players of his choice. We have to give Bruce more time to see what can evolve once he’s got *his* men together.
Andrew: “Good piece by robbo by the way and don’t worry mark your not the only one with concerns re bruce.”
Totally agreed – please don’t think I’m not concerned. But it is important to use a bit of discrimination (+ forbearance) and give Bruce a bit more time for him to build what he wants. If that doesn’t work *then* it’s time to slate him! 😉
Hogan link is great but unless we sign some mids and a winger he will be useless to us.
John
Bruce has 20 points from a poss 33 coming in 10 games into the season with the pressure to get results instantly and get promoted, without any of his own signings and creating his own backroom staff. Its a bloody good start. Under those circumstances you would be insane to put style of play first.
Now I fully thought play offs were beyond us BUT looking at it now I might change my mind.
We have done most of the hard away days, teams up in the playoffs. Been at Sheff wed, leeds, Norwich, blues, reading, brighton. Now we have to play them all at vp were we seem strong. Its in our own hands. The only killer is losing kodger, ayew and adomah although we seem to of lost ayew ages ago!
Make some good signings jan and win our next 2 at vp ill believe!!
good news peps http://www.footballinsider247.com/aston-villa-agree-terms-striker-deal-report/
reports that he beat 4 players for his goal for the under 23’s last night
Runtings- still not better than Gabby??? unbelievable
Andrew- we have played a lot of the top teams away and a few at home, we have mostly drawn or lost and only beat Reading rather flukely having sat back all game. We have played Newcastle and Huddersfield at home and drew, Fulham are 9th we have only beaten 2 of the top 12
we have beaten 5 of the bottom 6 and some of those were only just like Wigan last week and QPR.
When the top teams come to Villa park we have to take three points, we will not be able to sit back and hope someone scores a worldly like jack or Kodjia, when was the last tap in we scored?? goals from set pieces? 1 maybe 2? The only team we beat convincingly was Rotherham.
People seem to think I want to see arsenal like patterns of play, not at all just a basic semblance of football and a plan would do. If we are going to go up we need effective ways to attack teams or they will sit back and take a point more often than not. Our strategy was to buy some of the leagues best goalscorers, we laughably have over 60+ champs goals in three players and sit and defend, I only hope its because he’s waiting to bring in some mid-fielders to change the strategy but going on his “got to use the players we have bought ” line I don’t know.
Mark for sure, until we buy at least 2 mids we aint plaing any decent footy imo. Current ones just cant do it.
I agree we have more goals in the side but without service they aint scoring.
This brady at Norwich would be an ideal and 2 cms!
Looking back buying ross and kodjer and only jedi in mid was so stupid.
Yeah we do need to beat those guys at vp…but was just saying its in our hands. good to get the away ones out the way early. Got half a chance.
We will soon see in Jan whats lined up!
By all accounts rudi to baggies done for 7mill and goaline could well be off!
Under RDM we managed to play well in the first half in many games and go 1 up, our downfall was then not changing tactics when they changed to get at us in the second half, why can we not replicate that now and play on the break second half when they have to come at us?
TBF only in recent games the play has been poor. Defo style of play has been sacrificed for instant results. fair enough.
tried to find that article on bruce mark but cant bloody see it, will look again tonight.
Did mention rdm being aloof in and around the ground. says bruce gone out his way to know everyone, got the buzz back behind the scenes!
I also think RDM didn’t get all the players he wanted over the line, there were about 4 different deals that never happened on deadline day, RDM said he’d got his main targets but he would say that otherwise its shows weakness, and Xia said that they had already planned for the Africa cup scenario. Never really wanted RDM though all said and done, Wagner being sniffed at by wolfsburg and how many would fancy Gary Rowett at Villa?
Andrew- Even though we won the Wigan game was a real stinker apparently, I listened and it was painful
listened to one of wagners staff talk and he said Wagner works really hard so leads by example, he also keeps things simple and each player knows his part, nothing flash. Bruce seems like a nice bloke but apart from the defence I don’t see much understanding of whats required around the pitch otherwise.
personally i think we have had some not good enough managers to put it kindly
i don’t think anyone was as good as MON since he left and he inst the best we could do
Rdm wasn’t ever going to do the job imo and his complete lack of balance in his buying and buying shot players like Elfick was a disaster
Wagner is the type of manager i have been dreaming of for villa but the stars just haven’t aliened for that move
Bruce i think is fit for purpose of promotion and we can think long term once he starts getting found out in the prem
The fact he brought gabby back in was very disappointing indeed and like most villains already knew it hasn’t benefited the team
Agree that we have made progress under Bruce and there is room to get a lot better with the right components in the side —
we did buy a good right back but sadly his injury has left us with hutton still – bless him
hoping we can win our way to the new year and recruit smartly – and i think we may look like a much better side if we do
runtings
very good ppost
bruce first week in january will tell a whole lot
no point replacing gollina with utd 3 rd choice young less experienced keeper
we need a centre half ,baker will never stay fit
2 midfielders jedi will never manage to stay fit and bookings toting up
front man of some sort
hutton has to be replaced but after other positions have been filled
runtings- good post mate but when Xia revealed that there were four deals that did not get over the line late in the window shows you that actually RDM knew the midfield was weak, Xia promised an AM that didn’t happen, think it was a keeper, two mids and the Chelsea striker on loan, it could have been a lot different for RDM with those players in, we will never know. I suspect he thought he had enough up top to get to Jan hence the top heavy teams.
Tony Xia
The last day of transfer window, a lot more maybe will happen, maybe nothing happen at all. Whatever, UTV!✊
We’re done this window. Nothing can be perfect as we tried2 more. But we achieved our early plan!Great work by the whole new team! #UTV
worth remembering we had made a deal with hull for Hernandez and turned to Kodjia late on too. People talk now like it was a cakewalk for RDM short memories whatever he did on the pitch.
Defo no easy job for rdm or bruce now. Lke i have said re r building the worst team i have ver seen will take a few windows yet! Factor in not every signing will be successfull….never are!
Andrew,
I don’t understand the references to the “worst team I have seen”! 😉
Do we forget the teams of McLeish and Lambert so easily? And they produced zilch? Apart from Benteke and Delph there was nothing much to shout about – as soon as they left we were done for.
We’re now in the Championship (= the old Division Two) so we can’t expect to be watching PL-level stuff, surely? And in fact in this team there are signs of quality in Codger, Albert, Amavi and Baker. The jury is out for me on Ayew and Jack. It seems to me that we need to have a team that is left mostly unchanged for a spell and let them develop – into a better team. … But then there’s January coming up…
Agree mark and jl with your points – it has been far from perfect for our recent managers and randy made things even harder
where i differ is that i thought all the managers since MON were sub standard for our club
dispute the difficulties they all faced – they still spent more than most of the sides coming up and finishing way above them
they still were less effective at bringing in the right players were others spent less and got a heck of a lot more
i still had no idea what type of football we were working towards – maybe take rdm out of that one
For me these managers were not good enough to manage the club and if they struggled with us what would they do at the likes of Bournemouth and so on
we have been overtaken by every promoted club to the prem and non have them have our resources – so that’s why i say all those managers are cr-p and if you are waiting for them to go somewhere else and smash it then don’t hold your breath —
avfc the manager black hole
runtings
villa park black hole for managers would have to say the same for players ,how many come to villa looking half decent and completely failing .this season ross cannot score yet for last few seasons was banging them in,
yeah I cant belive how bad McCormack has been for us…he is a proven champ scorer for crepes sack!
Looks like tish is off, massive shame as I liked the look of him. Physically just what we need in mid. god knows whats wrong with him.
Linked to Judges from Brentford for only 500k. toon interested too. no idea what he is like.
apparently we want 5 new players!
Christmas wish list
Rb – Jenkison
Winger – Brady
CM Hourihane
cm judges
ST Hogan
Andrew, Steve Bruce’s masterplan to make us look sh1t in order to push Dr.T for more arrivals has worked.
Agree with the comments that there is no consistency of performance individually and collectively and therefore no selection consistency and that is down to not having tactics, sure we have a formation and we slot players into that but there is a complete lack of game play and in game management.
We are the big scalp and some teams have parked the bus, some teams found us out earlier in the season and went for the jugular and came away with a draw or a win but we don’t have a game management plan that should see us imposing our game but having said that the engine room of the midfield is so wanting I don’t think a game plan is feasible.
If Gollini goes on loan, hate to sell him as he is definitely a goalkeeper for the future, then we need to be aiming higher than giving Man U the benefit of game time as a young lad learns his trade, we need experience in the way that a Cech can guarantee points in a game, what about Hart on loan, we don’t really need a Guardiola type keeper who plays as a sweeper, Bunn would also benefit from having Hart around.
If we need an RB to provide attacking balance and less hoof the ball-itis then Moses Odubajo who Bruce previously signed would be a good buy but not my money and trust Steve Round to take charge of whoever comes into the club.
As for midfield and AFCON coverage, take your pick, most players are better than what we have, I’d go so far as to suggest cover being brought in for old man Jedinak as well.
And replace Gabby with RHM now and forever, even if RHM doesn’t make it, you can be full sure he’ll try his best as opposed to Gabby who is just trying to get fit by following the ‘Arry model of running around a lot.
A very merry Christmas or Holiday depending on your persuasion and a very happy new year to all the lifers
UTV
dor
happy xmas
you could copied and pasted my post at 5 40 pm on tues lol
didnt see that bruce master plan was to struggle to beat the bottom 6 sides wigan qpr and cardif maybe bruce is a genius after all
great minds JG, i had said about not replacing Gollini with a Man U loanee when i ran thru my player assessment post Norwich game i think it was but at least we recognise and want the same things for Villa
id be more worried if bruce was like pullis and not say anything/accept playing rubbish. But the times we have played badly bruce has been honest and said what the fans are saying…pathetic!
Linked to Snodgrass now….brady more likely imo.
Apparently that jedges is highly thought of. bit creative and can assist.
Tishbola apparently fell out big time with one of the coaches, and has not featured since.
RHM is being planned as replacement for Kodjia while he is away on African Nations, and Wolves want McCormack.
Hope everyone has got the double cd from utube….Xmas carols…very funny…LOL..
apparently we have got a new head of recruitment, bloke from stoke
Rebuilding Aston Villa was always going to be Steve Bruce’s greatest challenge in management and 90 excruciating minutes in Norfolk proved why.
The 1-0 defeat at Norwich on Tuesday was the equivalent of a roundhouse punch in the chops for Bruce, optimism from a recent revival temporarily crushed by some all too familiar failings. Bruce described the trance-like performance as “pretty pathetic”, while owner Dr Tony Xia even warned some players to “WAKE UP asap” in a withering assessment on his personal Twitter account.
disappointed &mad as every fan. Not the end of the world but need many lads WAKE UP asap. Let’s see the team bounce back Sunday! #avfc
— Dr. Tony Xia (@Dr_TonyXia) 14 December 2016
That festive turkey should not be allowed to smear the Bruce impact so far, which has been significant, but the Championship promotion expert knows the honeymoon period is very much over.
“I’m under no illusions, there’s been huge changes in the club over the past 18 months and I’m the sixth manager in that time. There will be a seventh if we keep performing like that,” he said. “I know how difficult it is, that’s the way the manager’s job is – I’ve just seen someone at Birmingham [Gary Rowett] lose his job because his face didn’t fit.
“But this is a great club to work for and it’s exceeded all my expectations. I understood it’s had a difficult time and it’s my job to get rid of those difficult times. I’ll do everything in my power to turn it around, you hope you’ll get the time – but we all know we have to be instant.”
Bruce has already secured four promotions to the Premier League, twice each with Birmingham and Hull City, but a fifth at Villa would arguably be his biggest achievement.
Under the ownership of an increasingly disinterested Randy Lerner, Villa had been in decline for years and relegation last season was painfully inevitable after so much mismanagement. Xia’s takeover in June signalled an ambitious recruitment drive with a net spend of £30 million in the summer, with 12 players leaving and 11 coming in, but Roberto Di Matteo lasted just 124 days.
Bruce was parachuted in two months ago and there have been tangible signs of recovery. Before the nightmare at Carrow Road, the 55-year-old had lost only once in nine games.
“If we get this club moving the right way – I’m sure we will do – then it should be a great club to play for. That’s the attraction,” he said. “Because of the history and support, the tradition, it’s a big-club scenario and you have to meet the demands of what’s placed on you. This club is always going to have a big expectation and rightly so.”
Xia, who is said to average just two hours of sleep a night, is a man in a hurry and the Chinese entrepreneur has grandiose plans for the former European Cup winners. He is already considering buying a ‘feeder’ club, with potential options discussed in China, India and America, and is targeting a place in the Champions League within the next decade.
But Bruce can handle such expectation and his presence has brightened the mood at the club’s Bodymoor Heath training ground.
After Di Matteo’s sometimes aloof approach, there is now laughter in the corridors and the fog of the past five years is clearing.
There have also been dramatic changes behind the scenes. Keith Wyness, the chief executive, is a wily and experienced operator while Steve Round’s appointment as technical director in September was a major step forward. Previously David Moyes’s assistant at Manchester United and Everton, Round’s impact is already producing results and hinting at a brighter future.
Round has reshaped the scouting network and sports science department, poaching Ian Atkins and Danny Donachie from Everton. Whereas last season the scouting system under Paddy Riley was an incoherent mess – with the Bundesliga scout even living in Australia – this campaign has already brought a return to the “flat-cap brigade” of recruitment, where experienced spies physically watch players and report to coordinator John Harrower.
Round has also made it a priority to improve the academy and “take back the city”, after discovering that the best kids have been joining the likes of West Bromwich Albion and even Birmingham over the past three years.
The buzz around football, even at Premier League clubs, is that Villa now mean business and have a formidable infrastructure. Yet it all counts for nothing if results continue to be awry and the last three games have rammed home the size of the task.
Villa face Queens Park Rangers on Sunday with Bruce demanding a response from the Norwich debacle.
He said: “It’s hugely important to hold your hands up when you’ve not played well. A mate of mine said, ‘I’ve watched you play and you’ve been c— all over the world’. There’s a nice part to that. So you play c—, but you don’t intentionally do it. You put your boots on and roll your sleeves up again and say you’ll make up for what you’ve just done.
“To be fair to the players, we’re two points short of the target I set when I walked through the door. A club like ours has to be looking at two points a game at least to give us a chance.”
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deadbuzzardalive
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Mark found the link, above.
thanks Andrew, I don’t think Tishbolas skipping around the corridors laughing the poor sod 😉
paul pears
how is gabby can fall out with all the coaches and still get a game [keane walked out because he couldn t stand him]
Haha no he aint….looking for anoher club 🙁
Big keith on fire on twitter tonight. Said upper trinity open for leeds game too and work to get player in full swing.
JG
I agree, but not sure what happened, but it was a major bust-up…and he has not featured since.
Some talk of him going on loan now…same as happened with Gabby..maybe he will get another chance…
RHM is a situation that if he signs now in the next few days..then he should be Kodjia’s stand-in, but he has to sign…and until then…or he will go out on loan..
Not why Keane walked…..but may be part….did you ever see any real conversation between Lambert and Keane in the dugout on matchday…..
Keane walked because he was pissed off with Lambert and his cronies..
Keane said Villa had no ambition.
At that, I thought, why follow a club with no ambition?
James – to follow up on your comment about ‘proven’ strikers who dry up when they come to Villa, how many times does that chemistry return as soon as we sell them?
I know it’s a different league but look how Sinclair is knocking them in at the SPL and Albrighton at Leicester (last season) in EPL just to mention a couple.
If the consensus was that we needed wingers to put in the crosses for Gestede and now we’re selling him, McCormack has to step up to the plate. Who will supply the crosses when we lose Adomah – Bacuna or Sutton?
My view of our wish list – at least 1 striker. 2 MF. I RB and 1 GK
paul p
gabby had more influence than lambert was main problem for keane, lambert admitted it wasn t him that gave gabby new contract
clive
cascairno penrice whittingham collymore crouch baros all looked the part to they put on our shirt weare nearly all in agreement on what type players we need and for positions
The dr has been great again on twitter!
Had a pop at Faulkner 🙂 Says we are more prepared this window than the summer.
Looks like its going to be 42k at vp on boxing day…when did we last say that!! For me its most exciting times for years. Knowing we have a proper set up now, won 4 games on the bounce at vp. All hoodos now broken, winning on sky, away from home etc. Jan transfer window coming up….they reckon could be several outs and 5 ins. 6 points off playoffs. COME ON VILLA
Great set of comments all round…Can’t say I really disagree with anything anyone’s saying.
Me, I’ve been in the “just get results” camp because we needed results. But there obviously is room for improvement. My hope is that Bruce, Round, et al, have identified players that will address the weaknesses and fit Bruce’s designs. That would seem to be what’s needed for some more coherent football. It seems to be the case that Villa remain a set of mismatched parts.
Since we largely agree on the players doing well, the trick is bringing in others who will complement them.
I’ve no doubt Rafa’s the more technically and tactically astute manager. But, when you’re a complete shambles, being hard to beat is job one. Then you’ve got to build from there. As MK says, maybe if RDM had got all his targets it would be different right now. But r0bbo0’s point about result and luck, etc., and things spiraling downward as a result also makes sense.
Boxing Day 1963
Hah! 66 goals scored in 10 games in Division One…
See http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/boxing-day-aston-villas-3-12359113
JC,
Rafa might be a better manager but he also has had some misfiring cylinders from time to time, despite his 9 months advantage over Bruce. Villa in fact have lost as many matches as Newcastle.
rafa looks good at the mo top with toon………….but overhaul zzzzzzzzzz
Joh
I wonder if they had a few drinks back in the 60’s at Christmas!!
Very interesring interview on you tube with steve round. Goes on for 28.28 mins. Imprssive bloke. In safe hands
Thing is Newcastle don’t mind losing the odd match because they have drawn only 1 game and won the rest, they try to win all their games we don’t.
On that note I will bid you a happy xmas
Mark,
Well, of course, that’s why we are where we are in the table! 😉
But as we’ve won 6 in the last 11 our stats are improving quite a lot, so we do seem to be (now) trying to win our games, n’est ce pas?
Anyhow, so long as we clobber them by 5-1 on their ground all will be OK! 🙂
john l
you are slipping
this day 2000 villa broke transfer record for juan pablo angel
1990 ex villain gary shaw scored a hatrick in a little over 4 mins for shrewsbury
it was yesterday date too late last night
happy xmas to all
Andrew-42K at Villa will be a good sight for sore eyes. If 42K turn up, let’s hope Villa can produce a Christmas special for them. I’m looking forward to the match.
Clive
Aye, McCormack will have to step up to the plate. His record shows he’s capable. Hope he’s fit for it.
JC
“It seems to be the case that Villa remain a set of mismatched parts.” That’s about it, seems more than just out of tune. Fortunately, as you infer, we do have had players playing well enough to keep Villa in the mix.
James,
Whoops! 🙁
Iana,
I’ve read that McCormack is something of a slow starter with his clubs … particularly at Fulham.
So maybe he will take off … soon?
Dr reckons we are going for quality over quantitiy.
lana yes mate I cant wait for boxing day, to see vp full again will be marvellous.
Merry Christmas everyone
festive greetings to all on here – hope to see the steamers , Jen . Brazil and all the others that have been on her from day one posting again soon
have fun all
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