I want Villa to win, however much less we have to play for. And I swear, it has nothing to do with Whinging Arteta. Pretty much guides my thinking for today. Screw the ESL, let’s have some new blood.

Arsenal have more on the line and I want to see them fall short. End of. Well, that and some points off the top eight.

Over to you.

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John Clark
John is co-owner of AVL, and has followed the Villa since the '70s. A journalist by trade, he is, by most accounts, a very nice person. You can follow me on Twitter @JClarkKohoutek. It's an astonishing experience. Or a complete waste of time.

Comments 247

  1. Mark King

    From last post:

    1 last thought, He will be talking to the players that have gone out and are playing, compared to him who has been kept in the squad they are gaining experience he is not so I understand his frustration.

    SG mentions in his presser how many players he has that are all fighting for a place due to injury’s sustained for their countries. None of that will give him much hope he can see pitch time.

  2. Mark King

    Would be nice to beat one of the top teams under SG, funny but it isn’t that far back Arsenal were nowhere near that. They have played some very good Youth players and have a lot of pace in their side generally and have added defensive ability, kind of similar to what we set out to do.

  9. Mark King

    Problem is good teams can do enough to stop him and our players don’t show enough on his level to help. Just hope get a break or a master stroke for the 2nd

  16. Heroes-and-Villans

    Urrrrgggh back to the old villa. Buendia given a starting role first 2 passes under no pressure to no one. Cash heavy touches. Not sure it’s the right game to go back to 2 tens.

  17. Heroes-and-Villans

    Kudos to goons and arteta.

    What’s this his 3rd year. Spent well over half that time having his head called for but has got them purring this season.

    Can only dream of the day I can watch a villa side fluid, passing to feet and moving.

  18. VillaMD

    Off
    Coutinho, Ramsey

    On
    Traore, Sanson

    It’ll be interesting to see if SG can motivate them at 1/2 time. Not sure why he’s always looking at his iPad and not the match. Maybe Coutinho runs a lot and his stats are good

  20. jbd656

    I admit to being a bit obsessed but the constant switching of SJM and Ramsey is bugging me. The team seems to a bit dull witted and switched off. I wonder if team SG has come up with some sort of masterplan that has flummoxed the team. The players just seem not to be themselves.

  21. VillaMD

    Yeah, players are checked out. Coutinho, Watkins, Luiz, Ramsey and SJM all know they will start no matter how they play. Must be so demotivating for subs

  22. Mark King

    I suppose the fact we created bugger all at wet spam until Beundia came on has him thinking we have to create more but against a fast passing team it leaves us light. , we played better 2nd at there place we had to .

  26. VillaMD

    SG quote “if you play well you’ll stay in the team”.

    I guess that should be “unless you’re Coutinho or Luiz as I’ll never drop you”

  27. James Gill

    Think purslow is going g to come under pressure from the owners,plus lange last yearbuys have all flopped sanson Bailey ings beundi ,sacked Smith and no real change after first few weeks,same players undroppable, not good enough SG

  30. Heroes-and-Villans

    But is what it is. Arsenal are much better then us.

    My gripes. Going back to 2 tens in a game not suited for it. And a complete lack of effort basically!

    Party just hoovered that midfield right up, was fantastic.

  31. Mark King

    Can’t see how they have underperformed SG when they have not played barring Ings lately. Beundia played himself fit but then dropped and Phil the main man.

    At the end of the day we never got to see what Smith had in mind with this bunch.

  33. Mark King

    Question is during training are they trying to play the Beale/SG way or do they look at ways to get the best from Bailey, Ings , Watkins, Traore, Beundia ?? I think we know that answer. Love to see how many chances have actually been created for the strikers, its been poor.

  34. VillaMD

    MK,

    I agree. Smith sacking was a mistake. We got new manager bounce with SG, but little else.

    25m for Digne vs Targett. Is that an upgrade? Not in my view

    Coutinho in. He’s past it. Yeah, some nice touches but does nothing defensively. Workrate is crap for a team that needs everyone putting in a shift.

    New goalie. Really! There was no need

    Chambers. Good signing

    SG lack of game time to Carney is a disgrace. F$&k Coutinho, play Carney

  38. Heroes-and-Villans

    Villa md

    We’d be lower…..a lot lot lower if we kept smith. We wouldn’t be talking about being on the beach put it that way.

    Chuck has played more mins under sg then smith.

    Sg we learn. Patience

  39. Heroes-and-Villans

    Most of arsenal wanted arteta out all last season. It’s taken 3 years for him to get his team across. It took Kloop 2 – 3 years…etc etc.

    Sg has been here 5 months.

    No guarantees in life but patience. I back him to build well. Time will tell as always

  41. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    Sg needs to decide or is having trouble deciding what we are and what he wants. His way 2 tens etc patience controlled footy isn’t what the team are about especially without a half decent cdm. Flittering between 433 more direct and back to tens! I suggest keeping us compact and countering. Sorry buendia

  42. Heroes-and-Villans

    Haha frem

    He was isolated today and a tough old job against a arsenal we can defend now!

    Overall of course better better as with rice last week party this week the difference.

    Midfield is critical and even more so against teams better then you. We have no control in that area which usually means you loose!

  43. Frem

    First touch is shambolic. Hold up play is shambolic

    Luiz is also shite. Didn’t make a tackle all ga.me,as usual

    Ramsey and mcginn need dropping. Sanson is a better player tha than both

    We won’t ever be a possession game playing a narrow 433.

    We have absolutely zero width and everything is way to compact and rushed in the middle.

    When cash and young get the ball they have absolutely no options to pass forward to

    To many players not good enough

    Bring on the summer transfer window

  45. Frem

    There certainly is no place to be good in possession playing this formation

    You need width and good wide players to start with being able yo that

    Look how wide saka and Smith rowe were all game

    We had no width and it’s easy to defend against

  46. Heroes-and-Villans

    What gets me so irate with this team over the years is how bloody football thick they can be. No worries being beaten by a better team or wonder goals but eg we hit the post get a corner, critical building pressure against top teams….what do we do. Curl the corner out of play. Lots of simple simple things this lot regularly do makes my blood boil

  48. James Gill

    2 strikers
    2 10s
    Luis mcginn
    All don’t work
    Don’t know if I trust Gérard or lange with more money,absolutely no sign of any style system apart easy to beat under both Smith and now Gérard,our midfield is a joke yet Gérard has not changed it,tried sanson carney Tim,even at left back young is not fit to get up and down the wing passed off again

  49. Mark King

    Right, If Watkins joins Arsenal and maybe even Phil they’d have a team looking at fighting for the title. Watkins is basically left to battle all game with 0 chances created for him, the only chance that he had he created.

    The club were on a 5 year plan and due to circumstance this summer had stuttered, there is no reason to believe with all fit and time we wouldn’t be around 10-11 by now, there is some awful shite out there including Everton at present.

    New manager new ideas new timeline. The one one thing that really erks me is how poor we are against the top sides under SG. Plucky losers is what we have become.

    Summer will see a fair few off and a fair few in, at rangers it was like that every season, this time he’s got money, I must admit I am a little afraid of what failure might look like if it doesn’t work.

    Eventually Bailey gets on, not when arsenal were tanking at us leaving acres behind but with 20 to go when they had settled for 1-0 and hit us on the break. I am not impressed with how the team are being set up for each game, Smith at least had plan for each team and was particularly good up against the best managers all considered. Under SG its all over when the game starts.

  50. Heroes-and-Villans

    James

    Agree. I think sg is being very loyal to Ramsey, luiz, mcguinn. Would of rested a few and tried Tim, sanson more.

    Disagree about transfers. Jan hardest window ever and we just got Phil, chambers and digne! Take a few Windows to get what sg wants.

  51. Heroes-and-Villans

    Talk about formation, tactics etc. All pointless as we were so passive. No second balls won, no pressing, no energy. Worse game under sg. He was seething saying he hates loosing. Well this team know how to loose matches!

  52. John Clark

    Well, ended up missing that as I wasn’t feeling well. Which also explains the borderline illiterate post.

    From the sounds of it, glad I was in bed.

  53. James Gill

    My pet hate,a weak midfield and by god we have that,marv has been injured yet some think he will turn this side around,me I pinned my hopes on sanson he can’t even get on when mcginn and Luis performed like they have recently no sorry all season,ramsay has scored goals so at least he is contributing to team,coutinho getting stick for last 2 matches just look at what is alongside him,Gérard is not blameless eitherits like Bruce time again try this try that hopefully something will work,expecting 36 year old young to cope with sako and get forward to provide width is up their with something Bruce would do

  54. Heroes-and-Villans

    John

    Yep better off ill in bed then watching that. Damn I bet you have more energy then the players!

    Who is sg talking about belief?

    James

    Digne was injured. Agree I lost count of how many passes mcguinn misplaced. Sanson must be horrific in training! I have no doubts sg can be negative or want to focus on shape, distances..his fav manager was prime Rafa! Has learnt defence tactics! its just getting the balance with that and attacking.

  55. Mark King

    H&V you can’t dismiss that it also depends on the opposition being pretty weak. Rangers are playing attacking footy now and look better than before, fans began to bemoan the style even though he brought them a title.

  56. r0bb0

    My first time at Villa Park for a while and whilst the ground looked great and felt like going home, sadly the performance was not the best
    Hard though it is, we should put it in context though. Arsenal are one of the top 3 sides just now and look skilful and very well drilled. They looked . . . Professional.
    In the first half we were outclassed but . . . . Limited them to very few chances and the goal they scored was a bit of a fluke rather than being well worked.
    For much of the second half we at least matched them and by the end I was believing we could at least get a draw.

    We’re getting ahead of ourselves guys. I know we want to be win I g the league but I felt as if we were not THAT far off the pace and that’s a huge advance in a few seasons

  58. Heroes-and-Villans

    Luis I can have some sympathy with. In no way shape or form a 6. If your looking at challenging Europe look no further then rice and party. Your nothing without a mid enforcer.

    I’d be very surprised if we don’t kick of next season with 2 new midfielders

  59. r0bb0

    Coutinho was really not at his best today and we needed someone else of his skills to be on top form to break open their defence.
    Ramsey started well but then sadly made a few mistakes and lost his confidence a bit.
    I felt sorry for Watkins. He had a very lonely task on his own up there. We’d seen how he, Ings and Coutinho seemed to be forging a creative partnership but today he was abandoned
    Having said that, if he’d been at his sharpest best I reckon he’d have made a bit more of the very few opportunities that did come his way

  61. r0bb0

    Arsenal did a very professional job of closing off any out balls from our defence so we just weren’t able to get our creative players into the game in the first half. We felt as if we needed a Plan B and in the second half, whether by accident or design, we saw one, which was our back 4 running at their defence . . .and having some success at it. Cash in particular had a couple of runs and they seemed to offer the prospect of providing a breakthrough.

  62. r0bb0

    We’ve been chopping and changing a bit lately and I’m not convinved that the players know each other well enough to pass their way through opposing defences, particularly one as well structured as Arsenal’s was today.

  64. r0bb0

    H&V, I agree about Luiz. Everyone knows his favoured role is not defensive midfield. Even with Nakamba in place we were looking g for another defensive midfielder.
    He did ok today ‘despite’ being played out of position and I for one am grateful to him for putting in a good shift ‘for the team!’

  65. r0bb0

    JG, you’re right rest tackling is not Luiz’ forte and passing is not McGinn’s strongest suit but I thought McGinn in particular did OK today.
    He made himself available and rarely lost the ball. His passing was generally ‘effective’ rather than incisive, and when he tried to be creative it just wasn’t quite coming off today.

  66. r0bb0

    Where we really missed the incisive passing though was from Buendia and Coutinho.
    We know that across the whole season, Buendia has been one of the best players in the league for creating chances and recently Coutinho has been excellent in that regard. Today, it wasn’t coming off for either of them. We have to give some credit to the way Arsenal closed off possible passing g routes to goal though.
    It’s easy to just watch our own players and be critical of them but sometimes, it’s worth giving credit to a high class opposition for preventing our own players from looking good.

  67. VillaMD

    R0bb0,

    My view of Coutinho

    Slow – no pace
    Does nothing defensively
    Lazy – just wants glory pass
    He’s old

    Should not be starting for Villa. Fine, bring him on with 20mins left.

    SG using friendship over benefit of Villa. SG doesn’t care, but we may lose Carney, Buendia and others because of him

  68. r0bb0

    VillaMD. I get the thrust of what youre saying about Coutinho, but your comments do sound rather overstated to me.
    He’s been a magician in some of the games and has been ‘the’ difference.

    He was trying things today but they weren’t coming off and if they had, it really could have made all the difference to the outcome.

    I do see the merit in spreading the load more and using him more sparingly though, particularly in order to retain some of our other creative players. I wouldn’t include Chuck in that group any more.

  70. r0bb0

    When watching the game
    I asked my wife why Mings was booked for a perfectly good tackle. It seemed completely obvious that he’d won the ball, even from the other side of the pitch but there was a delay so I assumed that the VAR assistant was looking at it and I imagined it must have been worse than it appeared in real time.
    I’ve just watched motd and since seen online images confirming that Mings won the ball cleanly at least 30cm in front of Saka. No way should it have been a yellow, or even a booking.

  71. r0bb0

    More importantly, a foul was given against Young (again on Saka) where in real time I thought I must have missed the foul, but having seen it on MOTD, I hadn’t missed it. . . . because there was no foul.
    This was the free kick that Saka scored from

  73. Mark King

    For instance, traore why did he try and head at goal twice from a crap position? why not back across? we lack a commanding presence in midfield or on the pitch, doesn’t have to be a DM just someone that wants to win, Jack wanted to win. We lack belief and either that’s down to the players or its SG’s comments and how he comes across, can they be arsed as they may be off, I don’t blame Chuck watching that.

  74. Plug

    Didn’t get to the game yesterday due to another commitment. Therefore, can’t comment on the performance. Sounds poor indeed according to Lifer’s comments above.

    Our results against the teams above us are revealing. There is a real gap there between us and the teams occupying 5th to 8th. The gap is wider still between us and those in 1st to 4th. We are a mid table team in our current stage of development and more time/work is needed to close the gap on those above.

    Don’t think there is any traction in banging on about Deano. He’s history now. The vision has to be forward rather than back.

  75. Plug

    I had hoped we’d give the Arse a game and get something from it given their efforts expended last Weds. It just underlines the gap.

  76. Plug

    According to The Times this morning, we are in pole position to sign Phillips for £60 million in the summer. I’ll believe that one when I see it.

    RObbo, sorry the team let you down yesterday. I’m always gutted when we lose so I’m sure you were too.

  78. John Clark

    In a lot of ways, nothing much matters from here on out, and are the players reflecting that?

    I remember hearing someone talk about how quickly SG formed opinions of players when he was playing. Not sure whether this has any bearing.

    The lack of 90mins…been a problem for ages.

    I don’t think the two 10s works. Maybe with different players, but the setup isn’t really playing to either Phil or Emi’s strengths. Doesn’t do much off the ball, and often leaves them in odd positions when we get it back.

    The narrowness we’ve covered. Playing out from the back, too.

    So, may well just be the level we’re at, and I don’t think the tactics are helping anything, either. The preferred 4-3-2-1/4-3-3, we just don’t have the players for it.

  79. Heroes-and-Villans

    I can see us wanting Phillips and I’d love Phillips. But not at that price.

    Sg really not happy. Like mark says and it’s what we know. They just lack that mentality. Look how many games we have lost the last year and a half. It’s there 3rd season in the prem so no excuse. Just ain’t good enough for kicking on.

    No we are safe and with sgs comments I fully expect a few changes. He has given chuck game time but not sure if there’s a stance there now with contract negations. I’d be playing sanson and Tim though.

  80. Heroes-and-Villans

    But if someone told me you’d be loosing jack but sit 9th with 10 games to go I would never of believed it. Its actually pretty damn decent.

    The leagues the most competitive I’ve known it too. Very tight. We have recovered very well seeing as jack was our plan a b and c!

  81. Heroes-and-Villans

    John

    Yeah sg is itching for us to be more possession based and better on the ball but our teams built to counter. The transfer window and how we set up next season is going to be so bloody interesting.

    I like the idea of 2 tens but doesn’t seem great with Phil and buendia. Wouldn’t mind seeing 4231 rest of season

  83. James Gill

    4231 sounds great apart from the 2,doesn’t matter which 2 it is ,they are not good enough to boss midfield,even the good wins v Brighton, Leeds soton we where out passed,couldn’t keep the ball,the last silverware winning managers understood football,where r our Townshend Richardson parkers Houghton Taylor drapers,I haver seen a squad so uncomfortable on the ball unless like Luis it’s backwards and sidewards in our own half

  84. Frem

    It’s already at the point now where we just need the season over and get some players in

    Centre midfield is what we are desperate for

    Need a DM who’s physical and a box to box cm. Should be sanson but he will be out

  87. Heroes-and-Villans

    Haha James yeah we can go around in circles with our mid! Sanson and Tim would be nice to see Phil middle of three with either Bailey buendia next to him

    Man this bentacur is a rolls Royce. Damn. If that’s the level of player we are after is all good though.

    Thinking of the summer window, to not sign a midfielder or 2 is neglect at the highest order! Hopefully this summer will be better. Much better!

  88. Frem

    Davis is absolutely fantastic at holding the ball up. Holding off Liverpool center backs

    Watkins on the other hand can’t trap a football

  90. Mark King

    Plug if you ignore history you’ll learn nothing. How many times did we give very good sides a battering under Smith? no lack of belief and players knew the system. Already SG is saying some players lack belief if the system. Sure we had our foibles too under Smith but we were supposedly a less developed side then with cheaper players. SG cannot figure out why the players blow hot and cold, even Phil does.

    He wants consistency but doesn’t know how to get it from the players, He’s a relatively inexperienced manager and a perfectionist, what could go wrong with a developing squad like ours.

    Already we have lost as many games this season as we did in the 20/21 season.

  91. r0bb0

    Mark, you raised SG’s comment about lack of belief in the players. It’s a slightly odd thing to say because he’s basically criticising himself and his management team.
    Our stats under SG against the top 9 and the bottom 10 teams are stark. We’re just not competing at all against teams above us. This in real contrast to Dean Smith where we competed well against the top teams but often disappointed and seemed complacent against the lower ranked teams.

    With Arsenal having had a really tough game in midweek I’d fully expected us to go put like a train, pressuring and making Arsenal work hard. Instead we held back and played cat and mouse. Either the players were told to attack attack attack form the start and they ignored the manager’s instructions or they were not told to do this. Either way, it seems odd to lay the blame at the feet of the players.

  92. r0bb0

    At risk of sounding obsessive about referees, I took another look at the Mings yellow card the morning and it was clear that Saka actually cheated. He did do it very well though.

    Mings passed the ball with Saka still around half a metre away. Saka then dragged his trailing leg along the ground in order to catch Ming’s leg and make it look like a possible foul. although we may not have admitted it, we always knew that Grealish was clever at ‘drawing fouls’ and Saka clearly is also.
    I think Saka is a super little player, but yesterday he cheated to get Mings booked and cheated to win the foul from which they scored.

  93. r0bb0

    A quick comment about yesterday’s substitutions. Ings didn’t have a lot of time but wasn’t far off making the telling contribution with that looped header onto the top of the net. At least by then we were showing attacking intent so he wasn’t isolated in the way Watkins was.

    Bailey looked keen and pretty sharp. It made you wonder if the media speculation about his current state of mind is all bollocks. I’d like to see more of him

    Traore didn’t really offer anything as far as I could see. Admittedly he didn’t have a lot of time but he didn’t do anything to say. . .’look at me I must have more time next week.’

  94. r0bb0

    frem “Luiz is shite. . . . didn’t make a tackle all game as usual”

    Don’t let the facts get in the way of an uninformed prejudice eh?

    Luiz made 2 tackles and nobody else made more. His ‘who scored’ rating of 6.5 was only beaten by John McGinn at 6.9.

    You’d like to see Mcginn replaced by Sanson who is “a better player”. This statement is also more made up nonsense and based on zero facts

  95. Mark King

    Robbo yes its puzzling that we now seem to fear the top teams and look like world beaters against some lower teams. The success against the top sides prompted the fans and Club to believe we are deserving of a higher place in the league and likely led to Smiths sacking. If say we had beaten more of our peers and less top teams that mid table finish looks much better especially as we had a turbulent 2021.

    In the game against Hammers the ref let everything go and while brutal at times it was in stark contrast to the few fake fouls we saw yesterday that were ignored by VAR and the ref. We don’t get tight to the players often enough though.

  96. James Gill

    In last week watched bits of pal v City, boro v Chelsea and forest v pool and in each match the underdog performed excellent, defending as an entire unit banks of 4 and 5 and also attacking in numbers ,something I have seen very little of this season under either Smith and now Gérard,Palace r managed by Vieira yes he spent a few pound but look how well they are coached ,drilled organised its not rocket science yet we looked as if we r coached by Frank Spencer

  97. Mark King

    JG that’s not true, Look at the games at Chelsea in the league and cup where we went 352 and Everton who were flying at the time. not a formation we use much but we played very well even though we lost ultimately we then performed better/well for a while beating a struggling man utd at their place. Yeah it was mostly due to personal missing and fitness but in contrast to how we face up to top clubs now we took it to them. The wolves game is where the wheels truly fell off after looking comfortable.

  98. Mark King

    The Puzzling thing was after SG took over there were loud noises from some players about training being so much better, more professional etc but ultimately that’s not transferred to the pitch as yet and SG states that he thinks some are not committing to the plan?
    Well that happened for Smith too with 352, one minute we were front pressing like nutters the next we lose to wolves and the systems useless. Both systems rely on attacking wingbacks which leave us open, this is a team that got 15 clean sheets last season mind.

    We conceded a lot of goals from worldy shots from distance and deflections in many matches under Smith which is unlucky and that’s stopped under SG but we still give away big chances instead.

    Then there’s last years player of the season heading to Newcastle and Chuck not signing, might give some hint to the mood in the camp.

  99. Jackvilla

    Good morning fellow Villans. I havent posted in a while because i did not want to sound too vitriolic.
    Now it is the international break and i think it is timely to post my two cents.
    Steven Gerrard is not the man to take us forward as a club. From what i have seen from our recent games including Arsenal, he is too defensive, and he is not proactive enough as a manager.
    Sure, his career as a player was great; that is the only reason the likes of Digne and Coutinho came here. He can attract bigger profile players.
    However, our long term prospects are not good under him. We will be no more than a mid table side with him in charge.
    He is freezing out youth prospects like Carney whom he has never given a single Premier League start since he was appointed here. I think Carney deserves a run in the team now that we are not likely to be relegated.
    We have a sporting director and several excellent data analysts in the like Fredrick Leth and Rob McKenzie. Their chief role here is to unearth underrated gems. Gerrard almost certainly disregards their opinion. His transfers this past window clearly shows he is the only one running the show.
    Anyone who watched the games against West Ham and Arsenal should have noted that better side will muzzle us tactically; with Phillipe Coutinho at the tip of the diamond. He was compelely mundane in those two games. A clever manager should know how to outmaneuver excellent sides. Bruno Lage at Wolves is an example. His first season has been an unqualified success despite him not spending anywhere near the amount Villa have spent this season.
    Apologies if i sound boring with this fairly long post. However, as a Villa fan and a huge admirer of the tactical aspects of the game, i have seen enough to write off Steven Gerrard.

  100. Jackvilla

    Mark King. I agree with you. Targett going to Newcastle i think is not a good sign. Digne is a good player but was a compeletely unecessary buy. Ben Chrisene and Young are good back up players for Targett.
    No need to sing Coutinho and break our wage structure just to keep him. It would create serious disharmony in the camp.
    Chukwuemeka could play in that position or even Buendia. Coutinho has been found out against better sides. He has had zero influence in our recent games against West Ham and Arsenal.

  101. Mark King

    JackVilla- I seem to remember Jack putting in some storming performances against the good side and maybe being a LW and in a free role helped him. Phil is virtually centre of midfield a lot of the time in free role but is not contributing much without the ball nor indeed with it in certain matches.

    Mr Beale is the tictacs man and looks at the oppositions plan, we have the same one it seems just a reshuffling of the positions.

  102. Mark King

    And yes signing Phil is going backwards to Jack days, we have enough good youngsters that have played together for a good while to build around. We might dip a bit for the short term but long term which was the plan I think we’d have something. As it is the side might break up and be replaced with doesn’t matter what your age is type signings.

  103. r0bb0

    Here’s a really nice article about how Leon Bailey came to be at Villa and gives some insights into what makes him tick.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leon-bailey-loves-aston-villa-23350238

    It’s good every now and then to be reminded that the guys on the pitch are real people with real lives and emotions and will all have worked really hard to get where they are. It’s a large part of the reason why I hate it when people “this player is shit” or “that player is rubbish”. No player in the premier league is shit or rubbish. If you’re not happy with how they’re doing, then point out exactly what it is you think they could do better. There’s a good chance it’s not even down to them, but it’s how they’re being asked to play.

    That goodness, that’s exactly what nearly everyone on this forum does.

  104. r0bb0

    Jack, some interesting comments there and in particular the suggestion (I think) that there’s nothing really left to play for this season so let’s use it to leant more about players, particularly Chukwuemeka. In principle I’d agree with you but we don’t know exactly what conversations have already gone on behind the scenes and what the management might know that we don’t.
    Do you think that Coutinho’s ineffectiveness in recent games has been down to his own performances, or how he’s being asked to play though?
    What seemed lacking to me on Saturday was any real energy off the ball, particularly in the first half, so the player on the ball didn’t have the options that he should have. We’ve seen that Coutinho can be a real master at threading a pass, but he needs to have someone to pass to.

  105. r0bb0

    Mark, you said: “after SG took over there were loud noises from some players about training being so much better, more professional etc but ultimately that’s not transferred to the pitch”

    I’m not sure that’s totally right. In his first few games with us I remember there being lots of comments about how we were moving better and finding our way out of tight corners better and it was being put down to the work on the training ground.

    What lessons may have been learned at the start seem to have been lost since then though and I agree we’re just not seeing it at the moment.

  106. Mark King

    Robbo- we lost most of our attacking intent early on and in attempting to bring in Phil and digne and attacking FB’s we improved in that slightly but went into reverse defensively. Most of the nice triangle stuff was pretty much going nowhere attack wise and broke down outside the box. Also we were so close to each other they couldn’t miss.

    So if the training is that much better they should of built on the early games, could be we are back to playing find phil let him do it.

    Of course we lost a really defence minded player in Marv too which didn’t help but we can’t say if even he would of coped with the new double attacking ten strategy. We had to move to a 4312 to get points again.

    Which moves to the next point, points. Smith was sacked for poor performances over the year and I suspect our eventual finish from a great start. SG was brought in to improve this and the signings of Digne and Phil hardly says future both being 29-30. I think there is pressure to gain places and nobody is saying don’t worry do what you want, play the kids etc.

  107. Mark King

    My take for what its worth is we try to dominate the centre of the pitch and let teams have it out wide. Against poor sides that attack its fine as we win the battle in the middle and hit them on the break, see Southampton and Leeds, when we play good sides at the top they have quality out wide and we invite them to use it. And just for good measure they are better than us centrally anyway. Even poorer sides with the odd good wide player cause problems. Against teams that sit in we have no width and just keep banging our heads against a brick wall and get countered.

  108. Paul Pears

    r0bb0,
    Great comments and summary of the game at Villa Park. Villa did ok, but never managed to really give the crowd something to cheer, but perhaps the crowd is the problem, too busy these days booing the opposition and the ref, rather than creating the good noises to encourage the players!!
    We really need the crowd to start singing things to boost the players. Villa Park can be a cruel place to be if the crowd is not fully behind you.

    I was surprised at the team selection, playing two number tens, and dropping Ings. Gerrard seems to change things too soon, and then the players don’t get to build the relationships needed on the pitch. I agree that Coutinho has not really achieved much in the last two games, as the opposition are ready to nullify him. In the last two games, Villa has failed to get between the lines and build any real attacking momentum.
    Where is the Mortimer, Evans, Barry, Milner and so many more, in the Villa squad today. Until we address the problem, we are always going to struggle.
    Agree about Bencatur, who has now slotted in so well at Spurs, and another one that got away.
    r0bb0, great article on Bailey, so thanks for that.
    SG I am still unsure about. He seems to get things right, and then somehow unsettle it, so that it goes back. He is still learning in the toughest league in the world with a long way to go!

  109. Mark King

    The question on my mind was what were the thoughts behind bringing SG in? what did they hope would get better beyond his pull as a Icon? He and his coaches are not seasoned in this league. All it appears to have revealed is that we have a lot of players that don’t suit his style or our players are not very good even though they embarrassed some top sides last season.

  111. r0bb0

    Mark, like you, I thought we’d abandoned the wings and were trying to, unsuccessfully, force through the centre. Looking at the individual player heat maps however shows that both Cash and Young did spend a fair amount of time pushing forward, indeed they were more advanced than our attacking midfielders for much of the game.
    The player who particularly suffered from this was Jacob Ramsey who seems to have been co-opted into helping Douglas Luiz out in defence. Throughout the game Luiz in fact played further up the pitch than Ramsey. I wouldn’t have thought that defensive midfielder was Ramsey’s forte but I guess you never know till you try!
    Maybe the tactic was to try and contain Arsenal rather than attack them and in fairness we did limit them to very few chances and the one they did score from was a scrappy affair, originating from an illegitimate free kick.

  112. John Clark

    Funny old game, isn’t it?

    Short version, it’s the players. Longer version, the players and how they’re employed.

    Don’t think SG has outperformed Smith as a manager yet. Which brings us back to the players. The midfield three just aren’t the right midfield three.

    From there, you’ve got a lot of permutations…Over-relying on Phil, where should he be, what does he have open? Where are you playing Emi, and why?

    How do two true wingers fit into a set-up that doesn’t really use wingers, per se? Just a bit of a mess, at present. However, the playing staff seems to match up more closely to what was needed in a 4-2-3-1.

    And as always, with formations, it can be easy to get a little bamboozled by how the system is identified versus how it actually works.

  113. r0bb0

    vivavilla and PP. . . it was a good article wasn’t it. . .really heartwarming at times. Of course at the end of the day the players still need to perform on the pitch, but after having seen media articles about how unhappy Leon Bailey is at Villa, it was great to hear another view. It was also good to see how he’s had to work hard to get where he is now, and is unlikely to now suddenly give up and stop trying. Most encouraging of all though was his performance when he did finally get not the pitch. Of the three players who came on, he was the one who seemed most likely to break open the Arsenal defence (notwithstanding that it was a header from Ings that actually came closest!}

  114. r0bb0

    PP, you’re right to comment on the crowd. I’m in no position to complain because I was one of the prawn sandwich brigade this weekend, but I reckon you could have heard a canapé crunch even if you’d been standing in the middle of the Holte End on Saturday.

    The Arsenal fans were the only fans creating a noise and I’m convinced that they swayed the referee to call a foul (and yellow) against Mings and a foul against Young that they ultimately scored from.

    Incidentally, Ive seen Saka complaining that he needs more protection from referees. No young man, you need to stop cheating and concentrate on being the best footballer you can be.

  116. r0bb0

    JC, not in the least convinced by your ‘short version’, your ‘long version’ however looks to be spot on.
    Watkins shouldn’t go from being our 4th best goal scorer in the whole premiership era to looking lost and lacking in confidence. Jacob Ramsey seems to be regressing although we all now recognise the talent he has. Buendia was coming on leaps and bounds and I was staring to feel excited each time he received the ball but now I’m really not sure what to expect, but worse than that I’m not sure he is either.

    Having said all that, Arsenal now look well drilled, efficient, and with players who know their roles and everyone else’s. They didn’t arrive there overnight and it would be unreasonable to expect Steven Gerrard and his team to do so either.
    Let’s not forget how much pressure Arteta came under last season, and that was despite him being ‘one of their own’. To the credit of the Arsenal board, they stuck with him and it’s now paying dividends.
    I’ll say it before you do Mark . . . . yes, we could have given Dean Smith similar leeway but chose not to.

  117. r0bb0

    Mark, yes that’s an interesting article. I suppose the encouraging thing is that Steven Gerrard left them in a position where they were then able to press on to even bigger and better things!

    Let’s hope he succeeds at Villa park and then leaves us in a position where we can take another jump forward when he moves on to Liverpool!

  118. Mark King

    Robbo the biggest take I had from it was he kicked the two tens malarkey into touch and stopped using the FB’s to attack so much and used width, also the midfielders ( Ramsey, McGinn anyone ) could get forward as the two tens were not in the way. And of course that Rangers hadn’t started the season well letting in a goal a game.

    Yes you can say what a great Job SG did assembling the team (30 players brought in in 3 seasons I think for £30m a lot in Scotland footy) but are we about to see similar at Villa for a whole lot more?

  119. John Clark

    The reason I advocate for a return to 4-2-3-1 is short term: I think it best suits what we have.

    I think JG was asking about what good it would do, but the pivoting 6/8 keeps a stronger central presence. SJM isn’t supposed to be playing RB as often, for example, or Ramsey LB. The wingers track and work with the FBs on their respective FB/wide responsibilities. They stay wider.

    The 6/8 combo stays narrower. They have to cover less ground width-wise, and are better positioned for cutbacks/inside passes from wide overloads in the defending third. They blunt the middle and force things wide, so sort of the same MO when it comes to funneling attacks.

    Me, I just think that suits SJM’s range of mobility more, and is a more natural fit for Bailey, Traoré, etc. SJM/Luiz support attacks more centrally. Buendia would be wider, if he’s playing, which may or may not be great, but I think he’d have to run less laterally. With quality on the ball in the middle and wide right, I think it’s just kind of reversing what you had with Jack, which all shaded left.

    Of course, without Jack we’d been using Ramsey as the 10 more so than as a winger. Given neither of our wingers have been fit, it might all be meaningless.

    But you had four tasked with pressing high (the 3-1), and weren’t so quick to concede the flanks higher up the pitch (wingers).

    Anyway, if SG isn’t ever going to play that way, I can’t see him using it now.

  120. Heroes-and-Villans

    sg has more ppg than smith this season. we are 8th in the form guide since sg took over.

    last season smith refused to play chuck in the last 1/4 of the season which were all dead rubbers and then signed 2 players for over 60mill to play in chucks position. but its sgs fault whos been here 2 mins and has played chuck more times than smith that chuck wont sign.

    im reading targett is better than digne. i dont know what to say.

    SG will fix our midfield this summer which smith failed to do.

    we will become a better team next season with sg ball.

  121. John Clark

    r0bb0,

    There are some good players. I like Watkins, I like Buendia (a lot). Phil’s obviously quality, but it was always going to be stop-start for him, and he’s surrounded by less talent than anywhere else he’s been in years. Ramsey seems best at driving forward or following the play.

    What I’m not seeing is enough who are on the one/two-touch wavelength. And that includes positioning to receive, actually receiving and controlling, passing quickly and accurately.

    I still see lots of poor decisions in almost every category.

    Some of it’s drilling, I’m sure, some of it’s where they’re at mentally (rushing, afraid of making mistakes, trying too hard to make the big play).

  122. John Clark

    And I don’t want to make it sound dire…I said the same things when it wasn’t going well under Smith.

    I just think it goes to point B, which is that this group is better suited to a different style.

    Could always be wrong, but I don’t think we have the players, as a full squad, to play true possession football. Either that, or they’re not following instructions.

    The ‘lack of belief’ comment(s) were very interesting. Wasn’t sure whether that meant they didn’t believe in the system, or they just weren’t confident enough to get up and into Arsenal and execute the plan.

  123. Heroes-and-Villans

    im a aston villa fan. not a dean smith fan or a sg fan. the agenda against sg staggers me. i see a clearer identity. better footy. better goals being scored and more importantly better league position. to get us 9th is very very good.

    all while being here 3 months, at 41 making his way in management and not built his team yet.

    patience. he will create a very very good team.

    of course it could go all wrong but the guy is driven to a elite level. i belive he will push us on

  124. John Clark

    H&V

    “last season smith refused to play chuck in the last 1/4 of the season which were all dead rubbers and then signed 2 players for over 60mill to play in chucks position. but its sgs fault whos been here 2 mins and has played chuck more times than smith that chuck wont sign.”

    fwiw, I don’t feel that way about SG and Chuk. He’s just a ‘victim’ of timing and circumstance, I think. Ramsey took a long time to start really flashing consistently, and got a lot of minutes, and even now, he’s still up and down. Chuk’s still just 18.

    When we get to who signed who…I think that’s a very interesting topic. Me, I see Buendia as a Smith signing. I’ve never been convinced that Traoré, Sanson, even Bailey were. Ings, too. Last summer was rather strange. Bailey may have been, but none of them match up to what Smith said was the player profile we were looking for (apart from Ings, mainly, except for age).

    Seems like SG has been given more clout, but that’s just a feeling.

  125. John Clark

    H&V,

    I get what you mean about an ‘agenda’. But I think that’s always what it’s going to seem like when you replace a popular manager (even though he was criticized).

    As you say, time will tell. Me, like I say, I think a lot comes down to players. If SG needs to overhaul the squad, then that’s what we’ll do, apparently.

    I’d have thought many would be getting replaced, regardless. Was always going to have to be the case.

    That said, I’ve clearly not been convinced by the set-up. Maybe it all works better with different players (a higher level, more speed and strength). Only one way to find out.

  126. Heroes-and-Villans

    yeah john man is madness to me anyone blaming sg for chuck! wheres the logic! chuck would/should of signed in the summer but was benched and had 2 players bought in in his position.

    again sg has played him lots! to trust him away to toffees in what was a massive game shows he likes him.

    but i feel now sg has his back up over no progress on talks. fair enough why play when looks like you want out. but is what it is, certainly not sg fault!

    tim signing a new 5 1/2 deal must be all down to sg then! and reilly signing a new deal!

  127. Heroes-and-Villans

    john yeah deffo the players.

    ive must of spent 2 years on here saying we have to be harder to beat turn defeats into draws etc. control the game better. for me thats what a midfield will do. and was never addressed. hence all the defeats the last calender year and a half. smith never fancied nakamba, sanson is a mystery to everyone! and here we are. its the one thing im sure sg will fix

  129. Jackvilla

    A lot being said about our midfield but i think we have plenty of solutions in there. We do not need to sign Kalvin Phillips for 60 million like it has been rumoured in the media.
    Nakamba for me is a good DM. Between now and the end of the season we have to shuffle out pack. I think McGinn could be pushed further up the pitch to see how he fares. After all, he plays in that position for Scotland to maximum effect.
    4-3-3 is the system that suits us. Coutinho on the left, Buendia or Bailey on the right and Ings upfront. Watkins for me is a selfish player especially in the box. He presses well but is not a natural finisher.
    If Nakamba recovers in time then he plays alongside Luiz as a number 8 and McGinn further up the pitch.
    All of that plus some of the youth players to be given more minutes on the pitch.

  130. Mark King

    H&V Sg has more PPG this season 🙂 With nearly twice the matches and an easier run up till now so he should. Not even getting into more players available to him in his time here etc plus Phil.

    As for Chuck, simple really because your not going to bring senior players in for big money to sit them and play chuck. No cups no chances for kids much where Villa are heading, and to me that is the only reason to sack Smith and employ SG, certainly not his long history of bringing kids through.

    As for midfield Look at the timeline, Smith used Wheelan to great effect once we cleared the old heads out we basically had mcGinn, Ramsey and a lot of players to buy. Like John I am not so sure Smith would of seen our summer buys as the answer beyond Beundia. We spent a long time sniffing out Smith Rowe and SWP, would liked to have seen both here. maybe Jack leaving scuppered both deals if they were ever likely.

    We do have some very good kids that play central though. As we have now switched tack to buy big ( £25m for a 28 year old FB)

    I don’t support Smith or SG either I just want to know the thinking behind it all when I don’t think we have gained much and now need a rebuild apparently.

  132. r0bb0

    H&V, I’ll admit to blowing hot and cold on SG, but the truth of it is that for me. . .the jury is still out. After the first few games I was right on the verge of being convinced. We were playing with more verve and confidence and results were coming. The trouble is that we seem to have lost our way a little (or other managers have worked us out) and we have struggled to compete against the better teams.
    Like you, I tend to feel that he will sort it out in time and we need to show patience.

    . . . . .that’s not going to stop us questioning what’s going on mind you! 🙂

  133. r0bb0

    Jackvilla, £60m for Phillips does look about £20m too much but at the same time, you can imagine a player like him transforming the way we play, freeing up our creative players to strut their stuff.

    Like you, I’d like to see how much difference a fit Nakamba makes first though.

  134. Heroes-and-Villans

    Very interesting debate going on about Philips 60mill. Do we pay it and bring a ready made class player to hit the ground running and make sure we get that critical number 6 in or go cheaper on a money ball type of player and make use of the scouts!

  136. Mark King

    Yep it will take time and patience but then it always was going to, now you can add a whole lot of money I suspect and waving goodbye to a lot of players form and the 1st and the stiffs. We might even see the core of the team go, in fact I think that’s nailed on.

  137. Mark King

    H&V what agenda’s that? I do think Smiths sacking was done in a bit of a sly way considering that it was his 1st really bad run with a team that barely had its paint dry. Doesn’t mean I don’t think the club had their reasons, I think they did and they were more about the club slipping from the limelight with Jack gone. Sorry if it Irks you but I am not impressed by what I have seen so far, lots of saying the right things and blaming the players but not a great deal of taking the responsibility. Anyone can say other teams have better players, improving what you have is way harder. Can you think of one players that has got better? I mean really improved? Marv maybe and he was put into a side that was set up narrow so it makes his job dead easy as he’s not covering the width of the pitch. Ramsey has been improving a lot for a while now anyway and beefed up. Beundia improved with game time until Phil arrived now he’s a sidekick. cash recently improved once he was asked to be a full back again. Most have stood still or got worse.

  140. John Clark

    Phillips at £60m? Sounds too high for me.

    But I see the reasoning. (Marv would never be the same player in a million years.)

    I’d like to think we could find someone roughly equivalent at the £30m-£40m mark.

  141. jbd656

    No doubting Phillips’s ability as a midfield player. Seems to me he has missed several games on and off due to injury. Suppose he could me rotated with Marv. Anyway, might he not like to go to blue manc and be with his equally hairy best friend?

  143. Jackvilla

    To sign Phillips for 60 million and Coutinho on a permanent deal is unrealistic. They are cheaper alternatives all over the market. We have a team led by Lange to look into that. Wesley Edens is a big moneyball fan; he would want more bang for his buck.
    John Clark,
    Some players do recover from damaged ligaments. Anyone who has watched Van Dijk this calendar year for Liverpool can attest to that. I thought he was done after the freak injury in the Merseyside Derby but on current form, he is the best defender in England.

  145. Heroes-and-Villans

    jackvilla

    we ballsed up the summer transfer business! 31 year old danny ings for 30mill. ouch. wasnt needed either.

    for all those i dont see what sg is trying to do. very good xg of goals for goals against in last 10 games. ill try and link it but its on twitter doing the rounds. we are right up there with spurs etc.

    patience. like he said he doesnt want a basket ball match but wants to be attacking but not wide open. hes getting there.

  146. Heroes-and-Villans

    thing with phil allthough yes theres chaeper is do they have the same effect. knowing we have phil raises other players game, attracts that player that was maybe in 2 minds to join us. sells the brand more. paying that bit extra for phil maybe better long run for us

  147. Heroes-and-Villans

    phillips. im in 2 minds. half of me says number 6. crucial for sg ball. crucial for modern game. he fixes it in one fail swoop. would be a coup.

    other half says worried about his injuries. was initally thinking too much money but is it really? in his prime, english, plays in a sought after role.

  148. Heroes-and-Villans

    an then im thinking of what do we want. the plan from the get go was stay in the prem for a few years make sure you get the prem money coming in and can pay the higher wages. and then kick on to challenge europe.

    or do we want to be another saints/palace in a eternal loop of mid table nothingness

  149. Heroes-and-Villans

    ah im useless at linking stuff. basically data says we are much more balanced, structured. martinez being protected lots more, hardly conceeding shots on goal. build from the back!

    also highlights how utterly awful bruce was at toon with there stats so revealing now they have howe

  150. r0bb0

    H&V, you may well be right that our xg rations have improved. The trouble is we are all disproportionately influenced by the results. If we’ve lost we tend to look for scapegoats and if we’ve won then everything is wonderful.
    It’s usually tiny moments that make the difference. Martinez being unsighted for Saka’s shot. Watkin’s shot being deflected onto the post. If those two moments had been marginally different we’d probably all be basking on the progress the team is showing.

  151. r0bb0

    I see that the club is trying to tie Luiz down to a new contract. That’s absolutely something that I would like to see.
    It’s funny how sentiment shifts. . . . there’s a load of love for Luiz on twitter today!
    In contrast, McGinn has become today’s bogeyman. That’s just perverse. He was our man of the match again on Saturday and is one of our most consistent performers.

  153. Heroes-and-Villans

    ah yes viva 29!

    i dont mind luiz at all. as a 8. 23 and brazilian international.

    cash also in contract talks. great to see as the improvement under sg has been insane. deserevs it

  155. Heroes-and-Villans

    robbo perception is funny.

    palace are getting so many plaudits. we schooled them at there place and are above them in the league, and viera had a pre season!

    but they have done bloody well! i had them as massively struggling. like that gallagher

  156. Plug

    Heroes, the two gents that own AVFC know only too well that a football club’s value is increased by success. They know the big bucks are in the Champions League. Reach that and sponsorship increases massively. It is the only goal in town.

    Now look at the debts of Manure, Chelski, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool. All operating on borrowed money that has to be serviced. There’s room to muscle in on these teams. It just takes time and big money. And Citeh might not be so hot once Pep leaves. Newcastle may also be able to muscle in but it will take them some time also.

    As we are currently debt free, Compass can measure the value of their asset against actual monies expended and received and I’d bet the asset value tops it. Happy days.

  158. Mark King

    H&V all the higher XG games have been the ones against lower teams with Ings and Watkins in the front three, Against Better teams we barely get over 1xg the best has been 2.85 when we battered Saints. Early part of last season we were much better with the palace game coming in at 4.5 if anything XG has declined this season badly.

  159. Mark King

    Having Phil here is a poisoned chalice, great if he signs but will come at a price wages wise and might upset the wage structure. If he doesn’t sign then the only reason worth focusing our game on him is if we get into Europe, otherwise its a missed opportunity to get Beundia and others bedded in before summer.

  162. r0bb0

    That’s an interesting stat Plug. Makes you wonder if his best role may not be lone striker upfront, receiving passes with his back to goal and being expected to fend off one or sometimes two big defenders.

  163. Mark King

    Might be a clue to how the summer buys were supposed to play, Bailey very quick too, Traore and trez both have pace, Beundia the key to unlocking those runs as he did at Norwich for Pukki. Mings and McGinn also capable of dropping the odd ball over the top. SWP was very likely key in that regard.

  164. r0bb0

    Mark, Like you, I was thinking that we had a plan in place for how we were going to play but have now changed course. Maybe Gerrard had already convinced Phil to make the move and the lure of that was too great for the powers that be to ignore?
    It’s all speculation of course

  165. John Clark

    The buys definitely fit with how Villa had played under Smith. Bailey and Traoré were simply upgrades on Ghazi and Trez, Buendia was going to be the playmaker who could also score.

    Have said not sure they were all ‘Smith’ buys as individuals, but they did fit the system/philosophy.

    Who knows when the Grealish business was actually settled/known, but Bailey played on the right a lot in Germany, seems fairly two-footed by stats.

  166. John Clark

    r0bb0,

    I think ideally, Ollie wouldn’t be receiving the ball in static positions. He does all the other things well enough, just not a hold-up man. Better/different passes would see him running off those CBs instead of being stood up against them.

  167. John Clark

    Also saw in some stats that Emi covers the most ground/90 of anyone. Which was hard to believe, given Ollie running around pressing up front, etc.

  168. John Clark

    “It’s funny how sentiment shifts. . . . there’s a load of love for Luiz on twitter today!”

    r0bb0: I’m not at all sure twitter has been good for supporters. There are some calm, consistent voices, but there are so many 180-degree swings, instant emotion, over-hyping, people needing something to say to get attention, etc.

    It can certainly be a good place for people to connect, to find stats and analysis, etc., but the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty low.

    Football, being a fan, is an emotional roller coaster, of course…just seems like social tends by its nature to over-amplify it.

    Been on Villa twitter the last few days (after doing nothing but following Ukraine), and sure, there’s a break now, etc., but so much competition for relevance. Exhausting.

  169. r0bb0

    JC, that Emi stat certainly came as a surprise to me and flies in the face of various comments we’ve seen about him being lazy.

    That does however tie in with your comment about social media where there is ‘so much competition for relevance’. I think it’s worse than that though, it’s more like ‘competition for attention’. It doesn’t matter whether the comments are accurate or truthful, in fact attention is more likely to be drawn to the extreme, controversial and outlandish.

  170. r0bb0

    JC, absolutely agree about how Ollie should be used. If we need a hold up man then we may well be better off with Keinan Davis. That would seem such a shame though as natural goalscorers don’t come around too often and we’ve only had 3 who’ve scored more goals than Ollie in a season over the past 30 years.
    It doesn’t matter how natural a goalscorer is though, he needs to be provided with opportunities and against the better sides in particular, they seem to have been few and far between.

  171. r0bb0

    As a lifelong Science Fiction fan it’s amazing that I’ve only recently started reading the Dune series and as I’m stuck inside with covid just now I’m getting through them at a pace.

    One line I’ve just read made me think about how fans often behave. The main character says

    ” when you think you know something, that is the most perfect barrier against learning”

    Too often, opinions are presented as facts and can then be repeated with ever greater confidence as the latest bandwagon starts rolling. Happily, that doesn’t generally apply on here, with most posters being prepared to listen to others (or at least making a good pretence of doing so!)

    As the wheels fall off one bandwagon, there’s always another one waiting in line.

  172. r0bb0

    just read that Ruben Neves is out of the next game. He is a lynchpin for them which has to tip[ the odds at least a bit in our favour.
    We ‘may’ have Marv back. . . . .at last for a cameo.

  175. Mark King

    ” when you think you know something, that is the most perfect barrier against learning”

    Funny that we have just had two years of the Medical, political and Pharmaceutical industries demonstrating the very same thing. The only thing I’d add is shutting down all opinion that doesn’t suit your own theory or purpose, also ably demonstrated by the powers that be.

  176. VillaMD

    Good to see Carney get mom and 2 goals for England U19s with Tim and A Ramsey also staring.

    If we’re going to pay £60m for DM, I’d much prefer Bellingham. Or for next season Nakamba with Tim backup are good enough. Need to figure out what to do with Traore and Bailey

  177. Plug

    Mark, interesting tactical analysis. Seems that’s how you fill a Youtube video. My tactical analysis after watching a recording of the game is far more sophisticated. The ref was shit.

  179. Heroes-and-Villans

    Really is a big big summer. Last few Windows been a bit of a mess. Want to see more of the Jan window, clear targets and identity and pull. Get sg on it.

    Me I’d go which I reckon sg maybe thinking

    Out
    Steer
    Guilbert
    Targett
    House
    Trez
    El goalsi
    Sanson
    Toure
    Davis
    Wesley
    Ings
    If there’s big money for mcguinn or luiz I’d sell one of em

  180. Heroes-and-Villans

    Ins

    Have to be 4 new starting players. More experience, pace, physicality the emphasis

    New 6
    New 8 get wignaldom
    New 10
    New st

    Don’t spare the horses on those 4 plenty of outgoings to free wages and top up transfer kitty. Use archer and bidace and Kessler to top up squad. And sign a few squad players ie hickey

  181. Heroes-and-Villans

    It will be 433 next season but won’t be Phil and buendia. Far far too samey to play both. Small, not the quickest. Buendia will still feature loads and we have to as a fanbase get used to a squad game which we never have had! Also the experience needs upping. Lack proper leaders been there done it. Foxes really last few years Evans vardy deep in 30s. West Ham fabianski tony, Dawson. Etc etc we only have young I believe in 30s

  185. Plug

    Heroes, those personnel thoughts should start an interesting debate. No mention in there of Chuk. If he’s to be transferred away this summer, I’d be more interested in maximizing a future sell on percentage than maximizing the transfer fee if I was Purslow.

  186. Plug

    There could well be a significant turnover of players this summer as SG pulls together his required quality. Some fans might criticise any loss of money on departing players.

    But nothing guarantees success when making signings. They are always a risk. Just look at how much Manure have poured down the drain. Nevertheless, I believe there’s some decent funds to be collected especially top dollar for Trez. Get Mark on his sales pitch Villa.

  187. r0bb0

    Interesting discussion topic H&V.

    I still feel disappointed that there seems to be an acceptance that the club had chosen the wrong strategy as I had bought into it.

    Provided the ambition is still strong enough and the pockets deep enough though then I’m ready to adjust the thinking and get on board with the new vision even though I’m not seeing this one as clearly as the previous one yet.

    I hope that ffp rules enable us to realise the new ambitions though as it will surely be more expensive to buy in existing talent rather than bring it through the academy, and we will sustain big losses on good players who just don’t get to properly showcase their skills in our new way of playing.

  188. r0bb0

    Having said that, I agree with most of your ‘let go’ list H&V. Let’s be honest, quite a few of them have already pretty much gone!

    The question marks are over:
    Guilbert: Can any of us really seeing him wanting to play for us?
    Sanson: I’ve yet to see what he can offer that’s better than what we already have. . . .and it seems that both Smith and Gerrard feel the same
    Davis: Jury still slightly out on this one for me. If we’re going to play a lone target striker then Watkins is wasted and we may be able to use Davis.
    Traore: If only he was more consistent although he’s not really ha a chance to show that for Gerard yet.
    Ings: One of the best strikers in the premier league but we don’t seem to be able to bring that out of him the way we are set up

    As for selling McGinn or Luiz, both are a total ‘no’ for me. I can see us spending more to bring in less successful players.

    It’s so easy to pick out players who we think would be upgrades, but to my mind, anyone who is a genuine upgrade on one of those two would be mighty expensive.

  189. r0bb0

    If this is our new direction then we’ve wasted a lot of time and money on our academy too and deserve to see our promising youth players head for pastures new.

    The more I think about it the more I’ll regret if our previous strategy has now been judged to have been wrong.

    Wholesale changes this summer will be saying exactly that

  190. Plug

    roBb0, I don’t think our youth strategy will change at all. Plans are in place for a new youth centre on Brookvale Road geared to attract any local talent from the surrounding area. I think we will still collect more kids from around the country too. It’s a sieving process. Don’t think we’ll ever compile a team of “our own” that competes for Champions League places, but a team with 3 or 4 home grown players in it should be possible.

    Such a team will save us mega money and generate added value for the club. Just musing what is Ramsey’s current value?

  191. James Gill

    H+V
    Agree with most of it,me a proper number 6 is a must,he will make all round him better,mings
    If cash keeps up his form of late back 4 and keeper is decent with just a young left back needed
    Midfield is needing a clear our and maybe a formation to go with ,not this 2 10s or 2 strikers, don’t know if I think Gérard is up to task either so I be inclined not to spend all the kitty in summer
    Hope Phil stays that bit of quality we need plus a good name to attract new blood,
    Would sell beundi Luis
    sanson Watkins and ings if we get the right bids ,players move on we get new heroes

  192. Heroes-and-Villans

    Plug

    Chucks gone man. Dortmund bound. And I’m dreaming Phil is staying!

    Youth I have no worries with at all. They could well have more of a pathway if we clear a lot of dead wood out. But id prob loan most out again until Christmas.

    We are so so lucky to have Ramsey in already. It really is needle in a haystack stuff to get one in the starting 11! I love youth and in my time have never seen us so aggressive in signing as many up as we can! But your still lucky if 1 in 50 make it.

  193. r0bb0

    H&V. You’re quite critical of a lot of the squad and believe that we need to see quite a lot of change and I’m sure there are others who’ll agree with you, but I’m wondering whether it will really make a difference.

    You say that Luiz, McGinn and Ramsey are “so so samey” and would be happy to see at least one of them go. I don’t get this. . . . in what ways are they samey? Do you mean they are not the industrious no 6 that we all know we’re after? If so, then I agree that we do need another Marv as we’ve seen how exposed we are currently in that position but is it right to lose one of those 3?

    You also say we need a new number 10 even though Buendia had been rapidly improving and showing signs of being exactly the player we’d hoped he was.

    You also say we need a new striker even though Watkins has been our 4th best striker in more than 30 years and Ings is a renowned striker.

    If we’re not able to get proven players to play well surely we have to start asking if the problem doesn’t lie with the players after all?

    If I was spending the money I think I’d want to know that my manager is able to manage our existing quality players before opening my wallet for new ones.

    If Gerrard isn’t able to get a good game out of Watkins, Buendia or Ings then we surely need to take a good look at him first.

  194. Heroes-and-Villans

    Robbo

    Luiz mcguinn Ramsey all ball carriers. Number 8s. Same as sanson. No real height, physicality pace. All though Rambo can put himself about and has some legs tbf.

    We just have to start selling players at some point at a profit. Think jacks the only one in years! So if a big bed came in to sell at a big profit for one of our 8s I’d do it.

    Love Ollie. Ings is never going to suit this team and was a panic buy. Cut looses. Loosing Davis and Wesley and Ings so need a new striker I’d get one better then Ollie rather then buying a squad one and keeping Ollie as main man.

    These players have lost shite loads of matches and has proven to be mid table ish. My aim is challenge top 8. Simply need better players and Importently ones who Imrove us… Age, stature, physicality.

    Buendias kicked on under sg. I love him. Cash has kicked on. Ramsey has kicked on.

  196. Heroes-and-Villans

    Rangers u17 striker Wilson targeted by pool, city, and Utd set for villa move.

    Another massive coup. Edens really wasn’t joking about youth the way forward when he took ownership. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a quality recruitment drive in all my years. Kids who are proper talents and wanted by the elite are coming to us. Not just your average prospects. It’s Insane to see.

    Few months ago we go another striker kellyman from Derby. Meant to be incredible

  197. r0bb0

    H&V, I think I do know where you’re coming from but I reckon you have an overly optimistic view of the club’s ability to find players better than those we already have.

    It’s not just finding the player; and persuading him to come; and affording him; it’s most importantly, then getting him to fit into the way we’re playing and gain an understanding with his team-mates.

    Take Chelsea, who’ve not done badly over the years, they spent around £45m on Werner and over £90m on Lukaku but neither of those have worked out so far.

    Watkins has shown that he ‘can’ perform better than nearly all the other strikers we’ve had for the past 30 years within this existing squad so how much would we have to pay for a replacement and how confident can we be that he’d slot in?

    There seems to be a new willingness to bring in existing proven players like Phil and Digne. We’re even being linked with Suarez (aaaaaarrrrrghhhh!) but do you think they’re going to be happy sitting on the sidelines? If not, then were will the places be for the youth players we’re supposed to be bringing through?

    You’re right that only a small proportion of the youth players will really make the grade, but if we don’t have a first team policy ‘based’ on bringing youth players through, then surely, every time we find that ‘1 in 50’ great player, their interests are going to be better served by taking themselves off to Dortmund.

  198. Mark King

    SG’s real plan is to bring Trez back and build an array of stars around him, its the only reason Phil came. Meanwhile he loaned him out so the loser mentality of our present players doesn’t ruin one of footballs greatest ever talents.

  200. Plug

    Yep, I had the inside track on this one. Phil’s agent and his very own mate SG both told him that he’d be playing with The Great Trez should he sign up. The bribe worked.

    Needless to say, after signing, he was rabid when he found out that Trez had been loaned to a club in Turkey. Mind, I can’t see the same ruse working come Phil’s permanent signing time.

  201. Heroes-and-Villans

    robbo

    yeah man recuitment has to be spot on and sg has to use his pull! Know what you mean but we have just signed coutinho, digene and chambers in jan!

    Digne fit 🙂 he has done an interview in france. speaks so well about us. Mentioned the long term and the players wed be after.

    Haha mark yes theres method to your madness

  202. r0bb0

    Watkins looked sharp tonight. A couple of very nice receive and lay offs too. Probably helps having midfielders closer to him and running through so he’s less isolated.
    Took his goal well too

  203. vivavilla

    Agreed, r0bb0, I thought he really looked the part. Don’t know what the point in bringing Kane on was, though. Nice to see Ollie, Tyrone and SJM all scored international goals tonight, too!

  204. Plug

    Viva, r0BBO, I echo your thoughts on last night’s game. Excellent performances from both Villa boys and the ex one wasn’t too bad either. Kane and ESR both plodded through their time on the pitch. Can’t see what they contributed. But Sterling had a better performance than of late.

  207. Paul Pears

    Been busy lately, so have only just caught up. I am reasonably happy with SG, but he is still finding his feet in the Premier league, and learning as he goes along. I certainly don ‘t see any wholesale changes, and some seem to be missing the point that we are building a squad to be able to compete on more than one front.
    We definitely need a couple of additions, but only if we can recruit the right ones. A defensive midfielder in the Kalvin Phillip’s mould, and make Couthino permanent.
    I think the picture will look a lot clearer by the end of the season, and the team will gel into a much tighter unit.

  208. r0bb0

    PP. fully with you in your last comment.
    We will need a deeper squad and whilst there are some that surely will be leaving (Wesley, Targett, El Ghazi etc) hopefully at least some of them will be replaced from the youth ranks and we’ll then be looking for a very small number of high quality additions from outside.
    If this summer sees wholesale changes that will feel like an acceptance of failure, either in our previous selections, or in the ability of our manager to be able to make the most of the talent at his disposal.

  209. Paul Pears

    Spot on with your comments r0bb0.
    I am sure that a wholesale clear-out would not reflect well on Purslow and what has been achieved to date. It could well be that the owners would then be questioning what had happened to original plan.

  210. Mark King

    I think the original plan went out the window when SG arrived. He doesn’t have a past littered with coaching kids, yes he started at Pool in youth management but he signed many older players for Rangers because the pressure was for results now, and the looming record for no titles. I see that happening here and the blurb might read the kids need better quality role models then they won’t see the light of day unless we stay in the cups. I’m seeing reports we could sell 11+ players and buy 4?? how would that work 🙂 Yeah I’m sure he’s going to use the so far unused kids to race up the table, two of his signings will be Phil and Ashley and then a back up LB, the Biggy being the DM.

  211. James Gill

    Me I don’t have a problem with players been transferred in or out,neither do I see it as a failure or purslow,lange not so sure
    The players we have bought have improved us from a championship side to a midtable Premier league side,some of them have hit their ceiling and r not good enough to take us to next level where we want to be

  214. Mark King

    Nothing wrong with buying and selling players as long as you make a profit or consider the investment over their time here worth the money, if you get near what you paid then fine. These players have kept us up and at times embarrassed some of the best in the league and at others been the embarrassment when Jack was here. If the aim is to bring in potential maximise it and sell to then buy better players/potential then which ones have really improved should be the marker. Sometimes improvement is subtle and not in your face such as got 15 goals, sometimes its improved positional play etc.

    I suppose if you look at it as we got up and stayed up then all’s well as we have stalled after Jack. If it truly was the long game as in buying youth with big potential rather than 20-24 year olds with potential and bringing them through the time is coming up quickly to see if that’s worked. The core of the FA cup youth team should break through. Yes its rare to have golden generation but we have sought just that recently. Villa have also had earlier periods where its happened in the 70’s and 90’s while not being quite the manure event. In todays market 4 players could save you £200m.

    To me it looks like a bit of the above but also about expanding our income to compete on wages which ultimately if you can’t find cheap players that can compete you have to pay the wage. SG seems to be the kind of manager that buys older quality on the cheap and pays them a relatively high wage, this is where we have to be careful, particularly as FFP might go and be replaced by 70% of income on wages. We sold jack on £150k a week and replaced him with 6 players totalling over £600k a week, sure we sold a few and dropped their wages but we have been handing out extended improved contracts like confetti, doesn’t look like a lot of players they don’t want?

  215. Heroes-and-Villans

    i think the plan is is going exactly according to plan.

    purslow said before a ball was kicked back in the prem….build a squad to stay up. young/cheap so potential to sell on. Become a mid table team. he mentions it takes a few years for ffp and being able to offer massive wages. then kick on and challenge for europe. sees the appointment of sg as us being more able to kick on in the next phase ie attracting better players. with the signing of phil and digne its correct.

    now if it works is another matter! ie the prem is mental hard. but theres a clear plan and its being acted out.

  216. Heroes-and-Villans

    sg plays youth but as a team we need older players. bit more savvy. as i said bedore we are lacking that experience of the better teams.

    toon in for phil. oh oh.

    going to be a hard summer now toon staying up. there in the same shopping centre as us. same as foxes. there re building too

  217. Heroes-and-Villans

    mark

    yeah we need to as a club start seeling players for profit.

    its been utterly horrendous for the last decade.

    nswe know this hence the crazy recruitment in youth. if they dont make it, fair enough but still be able to loan em and sell them for profit

  220. r0bb0

    H&V. You say that the plan is going ‘exactly’ according to plan. It ‘may’ still be broadly on plan but there’s no doubt that there have been some changes. The only question is how big the diversion from the original plan has been.

  222. r0bb0

    H&V
    We were investing in wingers now we’re divesting of them.
    We were going g for youth or young players to build value but now we’re bringing in kore experienced players.
    I’m not saying either of those changes are wrong. . . . Just that they’re changes

  224. r0bb0

    Tomorrow’s game will be interesting and just ‘may’ give us an indication that things are at least moving in the right direction.
    Have we beaten any team sitting above us in the table since SG joined? Leicester maybe. . . . Crystal Palace?
    Anyway, our results against teams we ‘should’ be beating has been good since SG joined and we know how much we’ve struggled to be consistent against ‘lesser’ teams in the past so it does make a nice change.
    To move into the top half of the table though we have to be winning at least some games against top half teams.
    When we last played Wolves we were dominating and ‘should’ have won but then capitulated in the last 10 minutes, confidence crumbled and not long after, Dean Smith lost his job.
    We have close to a full squad now, we’ve added a few extra, quality players; Neves and Jimenez are out; so we really ‘ought’ to be winning this game if we’ve advanced at all from DS time.

  225. Heroes-and-Villans

    Robbop
    Yeah sure man a small change in style due to new manger is just a smell expected change. But the big picture since day 1 has gone to script. There’s no way this squad challenges Europe without more balance. Lacking experience/ leaders/physicality. The plan is after cementing mid table push for Europe. Not doing that by buying just 22 year olds all the time. Need more balance. West Ham and foxes the perfect aim for us.

  226. Heroes-and-Villans

    Tough one to call tomorrow. Wolves have been class all season. Away from home in the prem is never easy.

    If we can show the Leeds, Brighton away form though I fancy 2-1 villa

  228. r0bb0

    H&V. I thought that the plan was exactly to keep buying 22 year olds that would develop and appreciate in value, both to the club and in the market . By now some of them should be mid twenties and taking on some responsibility.
    I really never picked up on us planning to buy 29-35 year olds.

  229. r0bb0

    Chelsea are apparently planning to let Werner go this summer. Surprise surprise, that opens the way for a series of Villa fans to suggest that we buy him as a replacement for Watkins.
    To put a positive gloss on the type of mentality that sees this is a good move, I suppose it could be that they have an optimistic outlook on life which thinks that Werner has the perfect style of play and temperament to fit right in, succeed at Villa and drive us forward.

    In the real world, He and Ollie Watkins are the same age but Ollie has scored as many goals so far this season as Werner has managed in the whole of last season plus this season so far.

    Yes Werner did very well in Germany and hence his £40+m price tag but we’ve seen many a young player struggle to sustain good form over the long term and sadly he’s looking increasingly like one of those.

    It’s a 100% no from me.

  230. r0bb0

    Good to see Marvellous getting a good run out last night and hopefully we’ll see him back in the first team dug out again pretty soon.

    Let’s not put too much pressure on him though. Yes our form did dip when he was no longer available but we don’t ‘know’ that the two facts were related. Hopefully this afternoon, even without him, we’ll see a good performance and winning result from the team. This is a game that we really should be winning if we have aspirations for cementing a place in the top half of the table.

    it seems that Douglas Luiz is not of a mind to sign a new contract and that is a real shame. He’s stood in for Marv and done a good job in an unfamiliar role. I’d love to see what he can really do for us in his more natural, more attacking minded role.

  231. r0bb0

    There are also suggestions today that Morgan Sanson is about to be let go.
    I find it harder to get concerned about his. . . if true.
    We’ve all hoped that there is a good player in there and that he only needs a run of games to show us. The fact is that neither Dean Smith nor Steven Gerrard have seen what they needed to see on the training ground to give him that run of games.
    None of us fans are in a position to say whether he’s a good player or not because we simply haven’t seen enough of him to judge.
    If he does go then let’s wish him well and hope he can revive his career somewhere else.

  232. r0bb0

    I saw that Roy Keane no less was singing Ollie Watkins praises this week for the layoff that ultimately led to Sterling’s goal.
    It was the type of play that we had been seeing from Ollie but we’ve been missing lately.
    It seems to me that part of his problem for Villa has been that he’s been asked to receive the ball in advanced positions and then hold it until support arrives. by this time he’s been muscled off the ball by some chunky centre back. Playing for England, the support was right there with him so he was able to shine.
    Hopefully both he and Mings will bring the glow of success from their England exploits onto the pitch for Villa today.

  233. Mark King

    Ok Plans can change but the initial thought was to buy young and improve while buying the cream of youth players where possible, if they haven’t made it by 21-22 then adios. Also the theme was on sustainability. Changing the style of play has consequences in staff and plans long term for both 1st and youth players, the qualities you look for may alter drastically too in your scouting.

    Take the last seasons buys, the oldest was Sanson at 26, Martinez at 28 as a keeper is the oldest but keepers usually get better with age into their 30,s. Even our loan player Barkley was 26. Better young quality buys at a higher price than SG has gone for so far with his in prime/ crest of the hill buys, wage wise another story. Buys can be amortised over 5 years wages are a constant drain on the books.

    If the plan was to see this youth policy to fruition then Smith would be still here, he’s not and clearly SG wanted quality straight away for less roubles Than affordable. The wages have increased dramatically too. Now maybe the Owners thought with Newcastle’s money injection and the emergence of the barcodes and Wet Spam they better get a move on I don’t know. Maybe they thought a change of Manager would get the best from their investment/ Or maybe the incoming manager had a word and said you’ll never win anything with Kids. As far as opposition maybe Everton are out of the equation for now and Chelski may stutter with the owner bailing so things change. Clearly Europe is seen as a money spinner which it is and one we have to achieve if spending big is now the plan, all the big clubs are in massive debt.

    Another deviation from the plan was the loss of Jack, why did he bail? Did he not believe in the plan? was it the injuries or the deadly England call up? who knows maybe he thought it was best for the club or he got fed up with carrying us. Either way it was a massive blow for us in confidence, prestige and media coverage. Jacks loss for me was the biggest factor in the changes.

  234. r0bb0

    Mark, I agree with a lot of what you say there. I don’t think the change of direction is ‘quite’ as stark as you suggest because the club is still investing in youth, but the path through to the first team is looking a little less obvious than it was as we bring in more ‘experienced’ players.
    It has felt as if there’s been an injection of urgency into proceedings and the Newcastle takeover is likely to have been a key motivator there but as you say, it’s very possible that Chelsea will now drop back in the pecking order so it seems a bit soon to panic.
    The key question over the next season or so is ‘how good is Steven Gerrard?’. It’s far too soon for us to judge that but if he is as good as others believe and the rest of us hope then the future will still look bright. . . . . a bit different, but still bright.

  235. r0bb0

    I’ve just noticed that only Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea have conceded fewer goals than Wolves so we’ll need to be at our attacking best to get through them.

    Is this a game in which we should go for all out attack, particularly with Jimenez and Neves out?

    Only 5 teams have scored fewer goals than Wolves, even ‘with’ those 2 playing so we really ought to be able to keep them out with all our defensive players (apart from Nakamba) available.

  236. r0bb0

    Mark, we were always going to lose Jack. For all his love of Villa, he’d been angling for a move for several seasons. The club did well to hold onto him for as long as we did, but it was only a matter of time and they must have recognised that. To get £100m was the very best outcome we could have hoped for. It seems it’s been recognised at City that he is still struggling to adapt to Pep’s style of play so the question must still be asked how smart a move it was for Jack. He’d surely have fitted better in another club where he was given more leeway to express himself.

    City and Pep have of course done very well but it’s still hard to judge just how good Pep is. He’s spent 50% more than the next highest spenders in Europe over recent years, so how much of their success is really down to his skills as a manager and how much to brute force of cash?
    It seems he has the one way of playing and his players ‘must’ adapt to it. He’s not of a mind to find ways of adapting his style to make the most of player’s skills. When called upon to adapt, as he was in the Champion’s league final against Chelsea . . . . he failed.

  242. VillaMD

    R0bb0,

    I believe we’ll see a quality Villa performance today with Coutinho shining with this lineup. Wolves more of a defensive team, so let’s go at them. Would love to see Carney get 20mins

  243. Mark King

    Robbo if we have just bought several players over 28 into the squad which is now 2 1/2 years older on the whole than it was then its a big change, SG says if your good enough age doesn’t matter which shows with the links to Suarez etc and the wages those players will require means the whole squad will want more money (nature of people). We might be good for a couple of years then SG buggers off leaving us with a high wage bill and no sell on value for millions spent and the frustrated youth will have buggered off too. Yeah could all go swimmingly but it has that element that means if it fails it fails big time.

    Jack could of not agreed to sign contracts for years and certainly not to a £100m clause which the vast majority of even the biggest clubs would baulk at, so inevitable? nah. Something/things happened to cause him , JT etc to leave and new coaches to be installed with Smith. Big personalities can hold teams together or break them, SG is stating that some are not buying his methods which means he’s waving them goodbye, can’t imagine the dressing room is a very happy place at present.

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