We seem to spend all our time in blaming the manager, but are we thus saying that we have confidence in the players to do their job properly? I feel we are expecting too much from players who are these days cossetted and made to feel as though they are worth the money they’re paid, and nothing else. For me, the character of footballers generally has declined in quality, and they seem not to understand that the badge they’re playing for has to be upheld as though the defence of the country is at stake. That’s how it once was: a pride that once existed of playing for ‘the Villa’.

Trevor Ford – a fearless striker of 70 years ago – said that when he entered the gates of Villa Park it made him feel great. And taller too: just to enter Villa Park had such an uplifting effect on him. More recently, you could sense that a similar pride and commitment existed for Ian Taylor, Dion Dublin, Olof Mellberg, Martin Laursen and Stan Petrov. Strangely, with Gareth Barry, I always felt that he would leave when the time was ripe. That his heart was never quite fully for the club, though he was a good player for us, no doubt.

Over the last 20 years, many Villa youngsters have passed on, some of whom had great talent, but lost in the search for self-glorification, and myopia in management.

So maybe I’m talking about an attitude that has now passed us by. Maybe the transition to money-consciousness has overtaken all players. And maybe that where once Aston Villa was ‘a family’ – and people openly said that was so – that attitude has gone; that players simply became commercial entries in the ledger. A two-sided coin that has lost its sense of real worth. All we have seen this past seven years is players coming and going, like confetti. In fact, O’Neill was shipping players in and out in numbers before seven years ago. A situation this past 10 years or more that I don’t think ever existed before

To bring out the best in the player at Villa Park I believe there needs to develop a sense that the entity they’re playing for has a great standard to be restored. It’s not a question of simply knowing how to play footie but a developed loyalty that brings out that extra dimension in a player, just as it did for Frank Barson all those years ago who, when his team was down to eight players, played the game of three players in one. And John ‘Slogger’ Sleeuwenhoek, who, in the declining days of the mid ’60s, defended his penalty area as though it belonged to him. And back in the 70s, players like Rioch, Lochhead, Graydon and Nicholl could always be counted on to give 100%, an attitude that the likes of Brian Little grew into. Followed by Ron Saunders and his team of captains.

How do we achieve that attitude on the field?

When today’s chairman talks of the need for ‘stability’ in my view he must transcend that thought to take on board the view that Aston Villa is an entity that is more than simply a football club. It should be a home to players who are committed to the highest standards, in the full tradition of the club going back to George Ramsay, and a tradition that is made to grow to carry on and be absorbed by future generations of players.

In the attempt to bring about that sense of ‘family’ and commitment, it makes sense to me that the club has purchased the services of the likes of Terry and Whelan. But in my view, they really do have to step up and show a higher authority and example.

How else is Aston Villa to be restored to the top? After seven years of constant change, in my view, it will take more time for that plan to percolate through. Sacking the manager is an attractive option, but on reflection (and given the state of the club these last seven or more years) is it really the way forward? Would another manager be able to get over the hurdles just outlined? Not by simply changing playing tactics he won’t.

Comments 96

  1. Should the same theory apply to managers i.e. they should have a sense of who they are managing, clearly managing a club is a more finite in terms of opportunities but who’s to suggest that any manager doesn’t just look at it as a cash cow as well.

    Has Bruce any real connection with Villa that instils in him some sense of pride and this pride feeding down to the players. I expect he is looking at it from the cold light of promotion or bust (fail or succeed).

    If his current comments are anything to go by then blame lies with the players on how they perform as opposed to the manager on how he manages or trains. If the players are so ineffectual in a game, how are they performing in training, can he not see they aren’t committed and therefore should just play the kids or is self preservation kicking in and he’s selecting what he thinks is his best 11 and hoping they meet a poorer team or a team having a bad day.

    Completely agree on the player aspect of this but, that has been dissipated for decades as teams lose the local connection and bring in more non-local players, hence the reintroduction of that sense of pride at being a Villan can only come about by the inclusion of youth in larger numbers and for their enthusiasm for playing for their local club rubbing off on the others. Clearly there are examples down the years were the club became part of non-locals lives, the likes of Mellberg, McGrath spring to mind immediately.

    I’ve pinned my colours to the mast re Bruce, Bruce hasn’t the skills to get the best out of this set of players and his additions haven’t improved things and would welcome his early retirement but I am cognisant of the fact that we’ve lacked stability, perhaps stability is a only possible when the right pieces of the jigsaw exist and Bruce (probably) isn’t one of them. Take Dean Smith a Villa fan and you’d see a different approach because Villa means something to him.

    Look at Vassells comments joining Small Heath, from most likely being a fan like us, he’s had to downgrade his support to he ‘followed Villa because of his family’, he might be at our rivals but none of us would downplay our love of Villa. I expect none of the first 11 love Villa and therefore wouldn’t die for the cause (Sorry JL, Gabby hasn’t made my first 11 and given his attitude in the last few years, I was far from love he had for the club). They may have some professionalism about them or a hatred of losing but that’s a different level to playing for the club you love.

  2. Been a Villa fan since 1966 and held a season ticket for last 10 seasons (when I unofficially retired). So I’ve had the bug for more than 50 years. The activities of Chelsea and Man City severely dented my football interest and that only got worse as more and more clubs were bought up by foreign businessmen chasing Sky advertising revenues. We had Doug Ellis for a long time who always seemed to think small but appeared to have the same Villa bug as the rest of us (but wasn’t he on the B’ham City board first?). Then we got Lerner who thought you could improve a club by throwing more accountants at it. Think Lerner killed my family feeling for Villa. I suddenly wondered what Villa had to do with me. They were just a foreign owned poorly run business. Now we are Chinese owned. What are they after? How long before they look for another better looking symbol of international influence. What have Villa got to do with me or Aston in Birmingham? Think I’m a Villa fan by long term addiction and not much else. Today’s footballers are just tradesmen doing a job and waiting for the end of a days toil.

  3. JL,

    Thanks for the insight. Now I have a better idea of what you’re talking about with the goings-on at Villa. And I can’t say you’re wrong.

    A team has to want to play for each other and have a shared sense of identity and purpose. As you point out, that’s gotten increasingly difficult in the modern era, especially for Villa, who haven’t stood for anything but decline and loss of identity for years now.

    It’s a bit different if you’re joining United, etc., where there is a sense of destination and identity. An atmosphere of achievement and standards to be met.

    With Villa, I never minded ‘young and hungry’ as a concept. Put a bunch of young men together with some old hands and throw them in it together. They have a chance to forge something of themselves, the opportunity. Alas, the crew assembled largely didn’t have the goods, and were under too much pressure to get much chance.

    So when supporters talked about clearing house, and creating the sort of small-club, us-against-the-world mentality we see in so many of our opponents, I had a hard time disagreeing. Those teams, and players, are bonded in a way that all sorts of disparate ‘stars’ can’t be.

    We’re instead relying upon their individual pride, standards, and professionalism. Which, in the modern era, is hit or miss, and even if everyone is trying, the team still lacks the requisite sense of communal responsibility and accountability. And, like you said, ‘family’. It’s a job, it’s a wage. It’s not about being a Villan and having a personal stake in the club that is on par with one’s own identity as a player, and even as a person.

    Can it be gotten back? Only if the decks are swept clean and the team is rebuilt and has to scrap for everything. Playing for Villa has to be an opportunity to become someone and part of something, rather than a stepping stone, or a destination payday. The emphasis on a quick turnaround, which I also completely understand, has precluded that approach. But it’s seems clearer every day that we may well regret not having tried that first, and that it might be forced on us anyway.

  4. jbd656,

    Understand completely. The game sold its soul, which may have been inevitable, but obviously while the commercial side has flourished, a whole lot of more important things were lost.

  5. jbd656

    Its a generational thing many on here have been around long enough to know football existed before 1992, if you watch Sky, it looks like they invented it. However many of the 20 somethings know nothing but the prem and fantastical stories of the 70s/80s/90s.

    But I expect they have the same level of love we had before Sky and before Chelsea and Man City robbed football of its innocence and created this money hungry monster, just they are used to different circumstances.

    Dr. T should invest in promoting the U23 games on AVTV so people get a connection with the future of our club as this level represents more about Villa of old than the current first 11 and there wouldn’t be any UK/Ireland restrictions.

  6. Darren: “Has Bruce any real connection with Villa that instils in him some sense of pride and this pride feeding down to the players. I expect he is looking at it from the cold light of promotion or bust (fail or succeed).”

    Yes, I see your point, but from what Bruce has himself said, managing at Villa is the biggest job he’s had and relishes the challenge. In reality, “from the cold light of promotion or bust (fail or succeed)” does come into it as he knows the Chairman can probably only tolerate so much.

    Conversely, Brucie is an old warrior, and played against us at Wembley in ’94 when we showed Man U how to play. He’s also worked in Birmingham before. I’m sure, therefore, those memories make him sit up and say to himself “yep, that’s a worthy club alright”. I don’t think he does his job without a sense of pride.

  7. Just terrified that Dr T will get fed up with losing face by being associated with a losing team in an anonymous part of the country that isn’t London, Manchester, Liverpool or even Newcastle and sell us to a bunch of chicken or pig farmers to teach us all a lesson.

  8. jbd656: “Now we are Chinese owned. What are they after? “

    Hello mate. Yes, I can see what you’re getting at.

    Well, firstly, it appears to be one Chinese man who I read as being a very sincere feller. I understand that to him Villa is a lifetime venture and is fully committed.

    How much so that’s true we have to see, but I suspect he’s not telling porkies. Don’t forget he’s already set up an academy under the Villa name in India and there are signs he’s doing quite a bit to re-shape Villa for the future.

  9. Well that is a matter of fact that Villa is the biggest club he’s managed, I don’t think it was said out of love for the club, and also determines that he won’t ever have a chance to manage at a higher level and hasn’t before us.

    Undoubtedly he’s of an age where he is aware of Villa and has some historical connection albeit from outside of the club but I don’t think that proves anything in the same way that any other player of the time knew we denied Man U the treble. He may have a sense of pride thru his own professionalism but again imagine if Dean Smith was our manager, we’d have both professional pride and love for the club driving us to be better. Bruce can walk away and suffer a brief moment of why didn’t it work out and then move on.

  10. Pride of the shirt to me is to see the light, a feeling of wellness, brotherhood, one for all all for one type of mentality. If you don’t feel included you are second rate in your mind, excluded but included sort of thing. Pride doesn’t happen over night. Is there any Villa player who have worn the shirt long enough to have that brotherhood feeling? There is and it’s the U23’s. A lot of them have been at Villa since they learned how to walk. It’s family, it’s the selbys, the real mccoys, the SAS, whatever unit you can think of that live and die on your and another’s thinking and doing.
    Then they see that it’s not like that in the big world. Older more experienced players are bought denying them a chance at the big club. They are shunted from pillar to post, sold, disregarded, and if they are lucky a place on that big team they always dreamt of being on. To walk out with a full house chanting your team and if lucky your name.So yeah pride is alive but it’s deep down afraid to show itself for fear of being trod on. Waiting for someone or club to place some faith in them.
    When you hear players talk about Villa who have moved on all you hear is how they enjoyed/hated their stay at Villa or in England. How they feel about their improvement and how it helped them in their footballing career. Never have you heard about the love for the team or how sad they are about leaving. That mentality started when they ran into brick walls at their original team’s academy. They learn at an early age that they are chattel, a commodity to sell. Like a feedlot that gets cattle ready for market. So when you talk about a players lack of pride look a little deeper and see that it’s not them it’s what was taught them from an early age by the team management.

  11. Ian,

    There are strong arguments for “the U23s” being brought through, but I hesitate to say that more than 2 or 3 are ready or even should be tried as yet. Green is already in, let’s not forget, and RHM is already being talked about by Bruce for Saturday. So that’s 2.

    The older guys are meant to show ’em how it’s done, and I do look to them to improve. They need to.

    And where you speak of “taught them from an early age by the team management” that’s as it was before the current regime. According to what we’re told, at least, the set up has been changed a lot. But – as I wrote – the effect of that change has to be given time to percolate through.

    The point is, Ian, Villa have been successful when there has been a certain ethos at the club. Since the club was pulled towards being run more on conventional business lines things ahve gone pear-shaped.

    We need to return to what works. And I believe it can, but not by changing the team manager and personel every 12 months or less.

  12. Hi John
    I agree regarding older players being mentors and I did read about a change being implemented in the club. The point I was making is that the model as we see it right now is broken. I think there is a distinct hierarchy in the club (maybe I’m out to lunch) and I don’t think that bodes well for the club. If so, that has to change as well. Terry might have a bunch of accolades but do you really think agbonlahor gives a toss? Or anyone with a few years in the game? He has to earn his place and he hasn’t been there long enough.

  13. Good afternoon each,
    John L , I’m thinking the same way, contrary to one of my previous post. We do need a period of stability and get rid of the fear factor that, I think, has infected our club like a virus. The desire for success and supporters expectations has applied too much pressure. I think we have to go with what we have build confidence and stability and accept our spell out of the big time. The last time it happened brought in a golden age for Aston Villa Football Club in the late 70’s and early 80’s.
    The journey continues. Archie

  14. Ian: “The point I was making is that the model as we see it right now is broken. “

    But I can’t see how that p.o.v. is derived, Ian.

    The club has been in great pains to explain that *old* model was broken, and that’ve sweated blood and tears to correct it. But whatever they’ve changed (as I see it) is not going to change outcomes overnight.

  15. keep your chin up ST75 sorry to hear about Bella mate.

    Bruce has big old c hip on his shoulder that he was never given a chance at a club with money, a big Club, well big clubs are run well and wouldn’t touch him with a bargepole. We can blame players all we want but when you look at other teams they have come from it doesn’t hold water. Even Brum went to rat shit when Zola turned up, was that them losing pride in the club? no it was more to do with them being set up like a turkey shoot, only lost 2 since harry turned up and they are Shite. The vassel lad I am told is faster than his cousin or Gabby.

    If we lack pride then its just something else Bruce hasn’t instilled in them, you can’t expect them to love Villa, they have been here less than a season and get booed, if its not Bruce’s fault then maybe we don’t need a manager? Wagner turned Huddersfield from relegation fodder to prem team in 18 months, a slow steady climb, Bruce is apparently only half way through his rebuild.

  16. I’ve never been one for the stabilty cliche,Chelsea change their managers continously,yet are pretty sucessful,Watford,Southampton too.If find it a bit of a myth.To me stability does not equate to hanging onto a manager who in his own words doesn’t know how to fix it,a bit too honest for your own good eh Brucie?
    I am not anti Bruce,I wish him well and hope we now go on a tremendous run of consecutive wins.Nobody will be more pleased than myself.
    Stability to me is defined by how stable the roots of the club are if a manager goes,instead of all change,the club retains it’s culture (most)coaches,playing style and ethos,regardless of whom the manager is,so that the sacking or resignation becomes a seamless process.If Round and Wyness are earning their corn,they will already be discussing and assesing a new coach regardless of how the season unfolds.
    Eggs in one basket is the phrase that comes to mind with SB’s fixation with Gabby,that said I haven’t the facts at hand,but my perception is that he has a good record of scoring versus Norwich.
    Talking of perceptions I have one re discussing Gabby,he seems immune to criticism or responsibility for his performances in some quaters.I want Gab to do well,this means Villa are doing well,but constantly wanting this doesn’t often bear fruit.He gets praised for getting himself fit????Surely this is a aspect of his employment that he is contractually obliged to provide?
    This is like asking a joiner or carpenter to build you a table,then praising him for making the legs for it too.
    In SB’s defence he is limited up front,but who’s fault is this?,He is also limited at the back,if JT and or Chester get injured we are in the brown stuff.
    SB can’t be knocked for the injuries,but can be given stick for not giving more.young players a run out at the end of last season when top 6 slipped away from us.
    A draw on Saturday IMO,Norwich coming from behind as per.

  17. โ€œEverybody thinks I have got millions to spend. The truth is we havenโ€™t and that is not the answer,โ€ he said.

    โ€œThe reason I probably got the job is they trust me to do it and eventually I will get a team together.โ€

    when for Steve when for? fed up of half baked statements, never talks about what he is going to do tactically or at training and never take any responsibility so why should the players?

  18. b6
    yes end last season should have been all about youth getting them ready,not playing wasters that got us in the mess we are in
    did bruce explain why the youth all played monday,left us with just gabby as striking option

  19. Ian: “The last seven years has been a revolving door of players and managers. Thatโ€™s the model Iโ€™m referring to.”

    OK, Ian, except that the club has made it clear that this is a hump that for them is a one-off (to get promotion). The ‘model’ that they are *actually* working to is to develop youth and buy in only when necessary – the old ‘Villa Way’


  20. Again we’re back to simply discussing the manager, not the club.

    This is where the mistake is, i.m.o. Bruce by himself does not run the show. The ethos and leadership can only stem from up top and Dr. Tonix said in a Tweet a day or so ago that he recognises how important good leadership is.

    We clearly have a ‘hump’ to get over in the short term, in terms of there being a recognisable Villa Way, but only by continually trying at that model will success come. But Dr. Tonix may find that it can’t come as quickly as he hoped.

    In other words we may just have to put with another season of stuff we’re not happy with (this season I’m talking of) until we start seeing daylight.

    However, clearly if we have a very bad run over the next few matches then Bruce’s head may have to roll.

    Let’s see what happens.

  21. JL- So it all hinges on whether Bruce succeeds? not much of a plan is it? what we are saying is a
    manager that plays in the Villa way can’t get promoted? (whatever that is) we need to play poorly to achieve that? meanwhile the youth players get no experience at a level they could cope with and instead are thrown into the prem arena with a completely new team (as our players will be to old by then). In that case we have waisted one season lets not waste another.

  22. Ok John, I think we are on the same page but the new beginning hasn’t happened yet and if a new manager shows up we’re back to “they’re not my signings so they’re shite”. It’s a lot like snakes and ladders except there aren’t any ladders on Villa’s board.

  23. Well, if the players don’t feel like part of the community, there’s plenty of canals, drains and sewers around Brum that need cleaning out. After cleaning that shit out, they’ll feel the community spirit.

  24. Mark: “So it all hinges on whether Bruce succeeds? not much of a plan is it? “

    Who said that was *the* plan?

    He is there to get promotion … and that target (within the plan!) is stuttering just now.

    Villa don’t have any real option than to see what transpires. I’d say he has the ability and a 50-50 chance of turning it around in the next week or two. But – as I keep on admitting – if Villa don’t then start making significant progress it’ll have to be all-change again.

    And any plan depends on the manager they’ve appointed to execute it. I still don’t see any other manager (outside the PL) who can necessarily make things better.

  25. B6: “Iโ€™ve never been one for the stabilty cliche,Chelsea change their managers continously,yet are pretty sucessful”

    Yes. But does it make for a good club? I’d like to see a good club *and* some success.
    The Chelsea way is to spend, spend. And what are we complaining about? … Buying-in and not playing youngsters.

  26. John – I agree with your article, whilst taking the point of others. Yes other clubs have improved dramatically after sacking managers but I think we need to focus on what is best for Aston Villa.

    Other clubs that have had success after sacking managers in The Premiership haven’t been relegated like us. Different solutions are required for different clubs. From what I have seen over the past 5 years at Villa, my conclusion is that we are crying out for stability. We have found a manager with an exemplary record in this division and we should stick with him.

    He improved us from 19th to mid table when he arrived last season (not adequate but an improvement from Di Matteo) but has had a terrible start to this season. But that’s all it is. 3 games!!! It would be grotesquely premature to panic and get rid now, for reasons I have stated in previous threads.

    The problem as I see it is he is starting to lose the fans. If the fans can’t get behind him, then he is toast. If we win tomorrow and get a run going then this will all be moot. Lose or draw, the pressure will mount on Bruce and the board.

    He has to be bold and go for the win. We have to play attacking football from the outset and try to get a couple of goals up by half time.

  27. Droyd,

    Can’t find anything in your message to quibble about, and I agree we should be out to attack – especially as we are at home and the fact that the fans need to be brought on side.

    Whether (if it goes pear-shaped) he will be disposed of afterwards I rather doot. The owner has emphasised that Bruce has to be given his chance and I’d imagine he’d be given a bit more time. Exactly how much time is to be seen.

    However, let’s hope the problem is largely overcome vs. Norwich.

  28. Yes, I don’t think a defeat to Norwich will see the end of Bruce but the pressure will be huge if that does happen. It would be difficult to come back from, especially with the fans turning even more. Difficult but not impossible and I think he’ll get 10 games at least. If we are in the bottom 5 after 10 games, he will probably be gone.

  29. Ian,

    “Itโ€™s a lot like snakes and ladders except there arenโ€™t any ladders on Villaโ€™s board.”

    Made me laugh. And sadly, seems all too true.

  30. Norwich, Bruce, and Toast (might be the next leader)…

    Anyway. It’s a big game. Lose, and as Droyd points out, Bruce may very well have lost the majority of supporters, if he hasn’t already. Win, he gets some breathing room. Don’t know that anyone thought it would be so important so early. But, as we talked about in the run-up to the opener, Villa have basically 10 games to lose all season, and we’ve already spent two. Automatic spots are rapidly getting out of reach.

    So I imagine we’ll see what we think is Bruce’s best side. We’ll also see what he thinks is his best set-up, tactically, of getting a result. Obviously injuries are going to play a part in what a best XI can be at the moment.

    But whatever Bruce puts out there, it won’t be a big surprise. For me, I think we have to look to the players and performance. Do they want Bruce to stay? Do they believe in his plan? Do they fit his plan?

    This is the bit I can’t quite figure out: Are they being hamstrung by the tactics/instructions (it would be easy to say yes)? Are they too scared and fragmented to execute the plan? Do they just not fit together and can’t execute the plan?

    Could’ve written that any time over the last few years.

  31. Not in Brum & couldn’t remember my password & my ipad wouldn’t bring the new password page up, plus the annual problems with AVFC.
    Probably just as well considering the last few games.
    I’ve read all the comments & concur with much of them, except to say that yes Bruce could get a win or 2, but I can’t wait until his insulting press conferences change to someone elses as it’s been 2 long listening to the same old old. Bit like how I felt with Lambert for so long.
    DOR – maybe he’ll burst if we don’t win the match tomorrow, would certainly relieve the pressure

  32. Good to hear about ST75 & hope he’s well & back with us soon.
    Sad to hear about Bella, I had to bury my english bull terrier in the garden.
    Also good to see some old faces back again on the blog.

  33. A Villa Manager

    Since Houliier, in reality I’ve not listened to any Villa manager who’s come across as convincing.

    How many managers has that been? 7?

    So why we should expect a replacement for Bruce to make any more sense I have no idea! ๐Ÿ˜€

    The one thing I will say about Bruce is that he’s the closest we’ve had to what the club needs since Houllier – i.m.o. That’s taking all aspects into account, not just his coaching ability.

    But I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. (?)

  34. coaching ability? – the jury is out on that JL, at least there is grass on the other side, we’re playing in the weeds

    ST75 is well, just back from a well deserved holiday, given the increase in participation on here which is fantastic, ST75 will be welcomed back

  35. Interesting leader JL,

    and some good comments from everyone else, but having suffered the pain of listening to Bruce’s “Press conference” which is a joke…..what REAL press is ever there to ask proper questions. Villa press conferences have become a farce, and so has Bruce’s preparation for them.

    A very good point has been raised though, and that is Bruce’s commitment to Villa. He is a northern boy, and still devoted to his Man Utd days, winning the first Premiership and delighting in the joy of robbing VILLA of being the first, and then United becoming the team that VILLA could have easily have been.

    He has no VILLA reputation to live up to, as we have just been a passenger limping along most of the time, with an occasional cup appearance, and the occasional good run in the league, and he thinks if he can better that he is doing ok.

    The only people who really believe in VILLA are the youngster that have played for us from a very early age, a few stewards, and maybe 50% of the fans, as the rest have never really seen a great VILLA team.

    WE desperately need a manager young enough to want to prove himself and his methods, which Remi Garde may well have done, given the proper support, and until we find someone similar, we will continue to struggle.

    Have not read your piece yet Steamer 75, but great to have you back, and I truly am sorry to hear of the loss of Bella, always a difficult time losing a four legged friend.

    Will be going tomorrow, but beyond that depends on Bruce…..NOT the players. He is responsible for putting the team together and planning how he intends to beat the opposition…like any decent army leader….what we need now is a Ghengis Khan….and Bruce certainly is not that.

  36. Paul: “beyond that depends on Bruceโ€ฆ..NOT the players. He is responsible for putting the team together and planning how he intends to beat the oppositionโ€ฆ”

    Yes, but Bruce seems to think that the players are not carrying out what he asks them to do.

    After all it the players with the boots on the feet – not Bruce! – they seem not to be able to work very well in unison. Until the last 15 minutes of the Reading match when they finally started putting something together, but that may have been down to Reading easing off.

  37. JL,

    I have used many people over my life and led them, in a commercial sense, sporting sense and in the army.

    I am not a loser, and only accept a successful result, and that means winning, and I have always led a winning team, by direction and by example….!!!!

    Bruce, does not have a winning mentality as a manager, unlike the Pellegrini’s, Narinio’s etc…

  38. should be Marinio’s…

    It is all in the preparation and planning……PMA ..positive mental attitude…

    The 6 P’s….Preparation and planning prevent piss poor performance…

  39. Paul,

    Well, I’ve been in leadership positions too, but I do think footie is a different animal in the way (as I said in the article) that players are a law unto themselves these days.

  40. Bending to the will of the fans creates uncertainty, timidness, and a fear of losing being much greater than a desire to win. A12th man in the stands for which team though. More like a stadium full of Gordon Ramsey’s. I feel that a big part of turning the team around is a more benevolent fan base. It doesn’t take much of “you’re shit. You don’t know what your doing, don’t deserve the badge, and the easiest the booing especially the sarcastic booing”
    Villa would do well with a player who stands up to the crowd and rallies the troops when they are turned on.
    I’m not interested in “they’re professional or they get paid plenty” You get kicked in the nuts often enough and you won’t care regardless of your stature.

  41. Ian,

    yes, I getcha. But I’m simply one who believes that you have to show that you’re worth what you’re being paid – in any job. And, as such, they need to stand up and be counted.

    Players back in the 50s and 60s (and before) got “kicked in the nuts often enough” (and worse) and yet were paid only about 20% higher than the average living wage, if that. And yet most played like heroes.

  42. Ian, JL…

    You both make interesting points. I’m very sympathetic to what Ian’s saying. I honestly don’t think we’ve made it easier on the players.

    At the same time, they should play like heroes. However, and I think this goes back to a lot of what’s been said over the last few days, the whole nature of being a footballer has changed, the whole concept of sport, along with the expectations from the “fans” (which I think is perhaps distinct from the “supporter” of old).

    Back in the day, a working-man’s life, from which a footballer was granted a reprieve, had much different expectations. And today, we, in our working lives, expect different things from our employment than did our grandfathers, or even our fathers.

    So, too, do modern footballers almost inevitably see all of this differently than their predecessors.

  43. Do you know what? I think Bruce must be a hypnotist RDM was no genius but in comparison to what we have witnessed so far after months of planning he might get upgraded. The poor sod got 11 league games after a rushed rebuild of a truly awful team but at least he had a plan and stuck to it, never got stuffed though did he? in fact should of won most of the games. I think given time and a second window he would of sorted it. Yet people are calling for stability and that Bruce must get his chance, what the hell has he had all this time? why do people think RDM wouldn’t of sorted it yet still believe Bruce will with much more evidence at hand? Not he’s done it before type evidence either because so had RDM.

    Sunderland under Grayson are doing ok, they are reported as being as big a mess as us yet?

  44. JC- If the fanbase had not reacted so angrily to RDM’s run of draws/lack of wins etc I don’t think Dr Xia would of sacked him. The mood and anger of relegation after the Lerners years was still in the air though and if Bruce had played like this then it would of been bedlam, Now its it appears any old crap will do.

  45. Mark,
    I really think the prospect of failure for Bruce colours his thinking. A big flurry of signings and departures can be a smoke screen to ones short comings. Remember RDM? No real emotion shown on the sidelines. Maybe lots inside. I’m guessing he is his own man and planned to stick to his agenda.
    Also another problem is the powers to be suggesting a quick return and playing European football in the near future. Only a little pressure there and an excuse for fans to blow up as quick as they have.
    7 years to decline equals 7 years to climb out of it. Don’t look at the miraculous results from others ie: lambert with back to back promotions or Bruce with four promotions. Lucky them. Circumstance gave that to them. Just like right now with all the injuries-circumstance. Right place at the right time for most.

  46. Ian spot on mate, I keep hearing Villa are a special case? so why do we need a manager with four promotions? surely we should find one that fits the plan of building from the youth with the Villa way? all I see is more time waisted, Bruce will play his buys and blame them until the end, if a youth player plays and has a good game he will be dropped the very next game or if like Green his form dips, Bruce is all about results, not team building or club building, he has always left when the going gets tough and the money calls.

  47. Pick the bones out of this, I mean we failed to put multiple chances away under RDM, the most created in the division at the time yet Bruce bemoans us missing the one chance in the first half we had, add the 27 passes we put together in the firts 25 mins to that Steve and you might get a clue.

    “If I showed you training today, the ball would whistle into the goal.Itโ€™s easy on a training ground”.

    “The most difficult part of football when it matters is scoring a goal.
    Thatโ€™s why strikers cost the most money. Thatโ€™s why we invest in them heavily. Itโ€™s because they have a knack of doing it”.

    “Our achilles heel since Iโ€™ve been here โ€“ and itโ€™s not just the strikers โ€“ is our ability to score a goal.
    We have created enough chances in all the games really to win a match โ€“ and we canโ€™t score. Thatโ€™s the huge disappointment.
    With the chances we have created our conversion rate is poor โ€“ and that has to improve.
    Of course, at the moment, we are without the main man Jonathan Kodjia, who scored the most goals for us. We must keep trying, keep persevering and keep practicing and hopefully when the chances come on Saturday we take them”

    “I need a win on Saturday to shut them up.
    But you remember them (who said and wrote bad things about me) and hopefully put it down their throats”.

    “I donโ€™t really ask the question but I have had talks”.

    “They know the club has had instability for so long now”.

    “Weโ€™re three games in. The euphoria and nonsense that is written is quite embarrassing.
    But itโ€™s the industry weโ€™re in, three weeks in and itโ€™s โ€˜off with his head”

    “All I can do is laugh about it and get on with the job.
    The pressure is big at this club”

    “It comes with the territory.
    It is quite ridiculous after a week.
    I shouldnโ€™t have to judge myself after such a short time.
    I have to ride the storm.
    We all want a good start.
    Hopefully I can turn it around quickly”.

    “Since Iโ€™ve been here, the one thing that has been steadfast is the support”.

    “They support through thick and thin.
    Theyโ€™ve had some thin times in recent years.
    We have to give them something to shout about.
    Theyโ€™re desperate for their club to do well again.
    Weโ€™ll try our utmost to give them a reaction”

    “Elmohamady had 33 stitches in his lip.
    When you hear all this nonsense that they donโ€™t care, well look at him. He wants to play tomorrow
    Jedinak has trained all week and will be a good addition.
    As for Hogan, Iโ€™ve not built him up for tomorrow just yet”.

    “We would still like to do something especially up front”

    “Weโ€™re trying to sort out that area.
    Weโ€™ll see what the next 10 days brings”.

    “Our conversion rate is poor.
    It has to improve
    And weโ€™re without our main guy (Kodjia), who has scored most of our goals.
    We havenโ€™t been able to take many chances”

    “Weโ€™ve had a bad start but we need to get it right.
    I donโ€™t think we deserve to be beaten at Reading.
    We could have easily had four points.
    Itโ€™s all nonsense (getting carried away so early into the season) after three games, itโ€™s ridiculous”.

    “Weโ€™ve got 43 games left and ten months ahead.
    Letโ€™s forget about the past week.
    Thereโ€™s a determination to put it right”

  48. So when Kodjia is back Steve expects him to get 80 this season? ๐Ÿ™‚ and even though he will be unlikely to be match fit and could potentially re-injure himself Bruce will throw him in ASAP

    Letโ€™s forget about the past week? wish I could but I keep getting flashbacks, can we add the previous season Steve?

  49. John: “Back in the day, a working-manโ€™s life, from which a footballer was granted a reprieve, had much different expectations. And today, we, in our working lives, expect different things from our employment than did our grandfathers, or even our fathers. So, too, do modern footballers almost inevitably see all of this differently than their predecessors.”

    I don’t know that, John? ๐Ÿ˜‰ But the principles of life don’t change.

    I quite agree with your point, but those “expectations” have been over-vamped to the extent that there are certain groups (bankers often come into this category) that see their world as quite different to the ordinary guy in the street.

    That belief is patently a lie. We might differ in our material status but otherwise we are all the same. The ordinary guy in the street still (like his forebears of decades ago) largely goes to the football ground for some kind of outlet from the normal grind. He wants to live for a couple of hours in a state of ecstasy but at VP all he’s known is depression this last 6 years or so.

    As James often says, it costs a lot to follow football at the ground. Where’s the return? The ordinary supporter can ill afford it while the player rakes in the dough.

    Although I have respect for Ian’s view – and I don’t entirely disagree with him – the over-riding issue from me is that Villa have paid out a lot of money for players who are supposed to be more than capable of getting Villa where they need to be. But – with a few exceptions – there has been little measuring up to their designated task.

    Sorry John, changed expectations or not, cheating is still a word in our vocabulary, and if you don’t do your best you are cheating someone. Cheating yourself, your family, your employer … and, in the footballers’ case … their once-adoring public.

    I call it karma – or the law of what goes around comes around. Cheating has a payback clause. That’s not to say I’ve not been guilty of it – I have, and know from experience that you do get payback.

  50. Mark,

    I said there are exceptions … and maybe the youngsters would (as you suggest) show more commitment.

    Otherwise there are a number who have not been measuring up. Yes, in my view.

  51. Quite frankly if I had turned up at a club that should be a step up the rung to success in my chosen field only to find its players disgruntled, the tactics stone age and the coaching poor compared to what I am used to I might feel a bit cheated too, I’d still try my best but sometimes that is not enough if those around me are playing a different tune on there fiddle, the managers job is to pick out some sheet music let his team practice it and then conduct them on the pitch, we seem to have a 11 man Modern Jazz ensemble all playing lead at the same time.

  52. I’ll add, Bruce did buy them, how can they all be so poor? he was still turning to Bacuna before he sold him??? results manager JL, when it Good its very good when its bad its awful and he doesn’t know what to do imo.

  53. Mark,

    You have made certain assumptions there which don’t gel with me. Sorry.

    In my article I gave examples of players who gave their all for Villa decades ago. They didn’t need super coaching to know how to put extra effort into their game and know how to work with other players. Once you’ve played football long enough the game should be intuitive.

    Maybe that’s part of the problem – too much coaching.

  54. Mark: “he doesnโ€™t know what to do imo.”

    If we’ve played 6 or 7 games and we’re still not showing any progress of any kind and no wins, then I might consider that’s the case.

  55. Ian
    โ€ You get kicked in the nuts often enough and you wonโ€™t care regardless of your stature.
    Like the stadium full of Gordon Ramseys comment, Ian. Can just imagine it, and have seen those vulgar types in the stands at VP. Any good teacher or leader in any field knows constant put downs do not help anyone.
    Do you think hiring a couple of verbal abuse guys for training sessions might help:)? Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re getting sworn at a lot in training sessions, anyway. Gordon Rmsey apparently swore at the wrong person on set in Aucklend and got punched in the head.
    JL
    I think if Villa can’t beat Norwich, SB should just go. Another loss/draw would demonstrate he can’t get a response from his players. I don’t like the idea of someone being sacked, but another loss would indicate the rot has set in and needs to be excised. I suspect what Paul said about SB having “no Villa reputation to live up to” is subconsciously influencing SBs mindset. On the other hand, you are right in that these uys are professionals and should be putting their all in for the colours. They’re not. That’s the lack of soul that esprit de corps you’ve written about.

  56. JL- So tell which players you think are trying? Hogan runs all day and keeps trying yet you don’t rate him, Chester always trys, Hourihane when played in the right position and freed to attack looked like a man possessed, Green always puts in a shift, Thor does too, even hutton trys, wheelan was so over run I can’t tell if he’s trying or not, I’d presume he is, the spurs lad keeps going and trys to make things happen, Emo trys………. basically all of them, something is missing.

    When I was about 44 I played in the senior league (county footy) the team I played for had a manager who liked 352 so he would start every game like that, when we were losing at half time we would go to 442 and win, in the end we stuck with 442 because it suited us. We also had an ex pro with us who coached a lot of the lads and believe me there are talented footballers on pitches that know nothing about the position they play, the art is to put them where they can hurt the opposition not you. We have a lot of players like that IMO.

    They need to be told exactly whats expected from them and what to expect from their team mates that are adjacent to them, that I am afraid is not happening. Maybe Bruce got lucky before with the players he got or he’s picked a bunch of the aforementioned talented but thick players, Players that had a team around them so they could do what they do without having to worry to much.

    Hogan bless him came from Brentford where they have calculated the areas to attack in the box
    where most goals come from, he must be thinking WTF?

  57. Sorry JL,
    You are way off….I said way off…with your logic with me and MK…You are clinging on to a sinking ship.

    MK is right, if RDM had been given the time he deserved, VILLA would have made the play-offs and may even have got promotion. Bruce came in, and had a few good results, and has not done much since.

    Monday morning, Bruce and Cqalderwood will be gone…..unless a miracle happens, and we thrash Norwich City…but it aint going to happen. Trust me.

  58. JL- He does not know what to do because he has had since Kodjia got injured to find a way and hasn’t, when Kodjia was out in Jan same thing with new players, he can only do it by trial and error IE play a game try something else, play a game adjust formation , play again…………

    I don’t think he is good enough to think it through john and fix it, he will keep changing until something clicks, thats not the way modern coaches do it, there are a lot of very bright men in football now, a lot foreign it has to be said but plenty of younger English coaches that don’t sound like Bruce when talking about a match.

  59. PP- He got results with RDM’s team then could not with his own until RDM’s returned, I think he has tried to completely change what RDM was building to suit his game, he may be 1-2 windows still away from that. When he took over Brum and Hull they were hardly a bunch of all stars but closer to how he wants to play from the off.

  60. On the players and effort part, I do have to agree with JL to some extent…I just don’t know where to attribute blame.

    As Mark says, lots of guys doing a lot of running. As JL says, I watch games and it doesn’t seem to me like Villa’s players are working as hard as the opponent’s: closing down, harassing, winning the ball back. Even when one or two are, there are others not covering the outlets, making one man’s efforts meaningless. He’s a simple pass away from pressure, and that guy is wide open. As is the next one.

    Is this the set-up, or the players? Or a combination of the set-up and players not knowing what to do?

  61. Good footballers out of position, saddled with tactics from 1874. You guys have pretty much covered it. Like buying a Ferrari to get groceries.
    I think there is a different climate for sports here in North America. When your team loses no one goes batshit crazy, all the darts are left at home and when the game is over you have a beer with the guys rooting for the other team. When your team wins you buy a round in celebration and wait for the return game. To have the pitch ringed with coppers and away fans cordoned off its no wonder players are like they are. The only thing missing is Nero giving a thumbs down.
    That atmosphere is what ails a number of teams. Everyone is scared witless of the throngs in the stands. I think that has to change so a manager or player doesn’t have to feel threatened by a wrong step.

  62. Ian,

    A very pitcuresque summing-up! ๐Ÿ˜€

    But no way do I see the players being victims. They earn too much to qualify. They need strength of mind, not excuses i.m.o.

    It’s not changed a lot in British football, Ian. If you were to read my Chronicles you’d see that crowd belligerence was there a long time back. There was one amusing story of a female supporter who ran across the pitch showing her knickers and threatening a player with her brolly! ๐Ÿ˜€

  63. Jc – I suspect they are told to sit and not lose shape. The other side of that is how many do you commit to an attack? If the team cannot play higher up the pitch due to pace then you get stretched if playing an attacking game. Players soon realise that they have to keep one eye on their mates and become hesitant. So it’s no surprise that the one player that doesn’t need the team so much to score brings us end coupled with the one player that covers the defences frailties.

  64. Mark: “They need to be told exactly whats expected from them and what to expect from their team mates that are adjacent to them, that I am afraid is not happening. “

    But why is it not happening?

    Bruce seems to infer that the players *are* given the direction, but they don’t ‘play up’.

    You clearly choose to believe that Bruce is telling porkies. They must be doing what he wants in training, surely?

  65. There is a lot of belligerence. My dad was a Villa fan and my mom was a Blues fan. Family dinners were great. I didn’t know what the problem was. I do now. 60 years later and my uncle still won’t entertain a word about football. It’s just left alone. I send him pictures of me with a bit of a Villa shirt hanging out from under my jacket.

  66. John, all the money in the world isn’t going to guarantee me a win over Conor McGregor no matter how much I listen to my coach. The pain coming my way would make me curl up

  67. JL- Have you not noticed that Bruce never blames his instructions? why do we appear to be the only team that looks to have this problem if its so common these days?

    your telling me a player walks into VP and gets ยฃ25k a week and he can’t be bothered? That is an average wage in the prem, why not “play up” and earn a massive pay rise somewhere else? are Villa targeting players now who have specific wage ceilings they are happy with? No ambition?
    No wish to play at international level or be talked about as a decent player even?

    Your faith in Bruce amazes me when you don’t know what he has told them, he seems incapable of explaining games in anything but clichรฉs, if he thinks we did enough to be Readings Equals in that game then I give in. I think he believes his own tripe, I have no need to believe he is lying, he’s just not very good.

    If you care to take a look at the table we have hit a new low 24th bottom of the table bloody players.

  68. JL- So players should just turn up at a club and automatically form a team regardless? they know how to play football its instinctive so we don’t need a coach or a manager despite just need to try really hard while the team with the decent manager passes the ball around our inept set up, why is it even called professional football?

  69. If you want to know a possible reason the players are not like the old time players its because the testosterone levels of the modern man are declining, oestrogen in plastics, food and environmental chemicals like fire retardants are dropping T levels like a stone. this is an old study it has continued to drop, probably why men cry more these days ๐Ÿ˜‰

    “The Massachusetts Male Aging Study was composed of randomly selected men (aged 45-79 years) living in the Boston area. The men were initially sampled between 1987 and 1989 (n=1,374). There were two follow-up periods: 1995 to 1997 (n=906) and 2002 to 2004 (n=489). There were 2,769 total observations from 1,532 men.

    Age-independent decline

    At baseline, the median serum testosterone level was 501 ng/d; at the first follow-up it was 435 ng/dL and at the second follow-up it was 391 ng/dL.

    The estimated cross-sectional decline in total testosterone level was 0.4% per year of age (95% CI, โ€“0.6% to โ€“0.2%). The longitudinal within-person decline was about 1.6% per year (95% CI, โ€“1.8% to โ€“1.4%). The age-matched time trend was 1.2% lower per year (95% CI, โ€“1.4% to โ€“1.0%).”

  70. FC UK nobody mentioned we are strongest team in championship ,stevie stevie even rdm never sank that low
    bottom of the table bottom of the table agent bruce

  71. I hope Villa do smash Norwich later and turn it around. All the best to SB. Hope they can do it. No one really wants to see another manager leave.

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