So Villa are coming back from Portugal. We know they’ve worked on their fitness and patterns of play. But did we get any closer to figuring out our starting XI?

A little bit. We know Terry’s in, Amavi’s out, and Sam Johnstone is apparently locked up for another year, ending our wistful ‘pursuit’ of Joe Hart. Amavi may well flourish in another league, and I wish him all the best. It’s a shame that after his bright start at Villa the injury seemed to derail him.

Elsewhere, Bruce has a few decisions to make, and August 5th is rapidly approaching.

Who Will We Be?
Besides his potential influence on the team’s mentality, all signs seem to point to Terry’s arrival heralding an emphasis on some sort of 3-5-2. That didn’t work out so well when we tried it on the fly last season. But with time to work on it, we might be able to get it right. Like any formation, it has strengths and weaknesses. Chester, Baker, and Terry should form a pretty decent back three, and with Jedinak in front you’d think it would be more than good enough for the Championship. I’d thought Bruce felt 4-4-2 was the way out, but never mind.

Anyway, the trick with a 3-5-2 is obviously is the wing-backs.

On the right, James Bree, Ritchie De Laet, and the venerable Alan Hutton are fighting for the spot. On the left? Neill Taylor. So with Amavi’s departure, that seems to be the first area of concern. Taylor showed himself to be much better suited to actually defending than Amavi, but whether he’s a true fit for a 3-5-2 is yet to be seen, and there’s no cover.

Hence, I suppose, the interest in Elmohamady. Except that he’s another right-sided player. And there’s already a logjam on the right. Do we need four?

Who’s in the Middle?
Bruce is still apparently interested in bringing Whelan in. You understand what he’s going for, but I’m not convinced, and I know most everyone else isn’t, either. With Grealish, Hourihane, Lansbury, Jedinak, Adomah, Green, Tshibola, and Bjarnason in the mix, Bruce already has eight midfielders to slot into three spots, and Jedi is going to be one of them.

What does a 3-5-2 mean for Adomah and Green? No idea. I thought Adomah had a pretty decent season, his biggest plus being that he and Kodjia have a good understanding. Green is young, dynamic, fast, and skillful. Wing-back material? Or how about Bjarnason?

I really don’t know whether Veretout will force his way into the side if he can’t get a ticket out. But that would make nine midfielders.

Wait, 11, counting Lyden and Gardner. Oh, and we’ve still got Bacuna, too. So that’s 12 at the moment. I don’t know how this works out, but that’s a lot of bodies thinking they should be playing. You have to imagine Hourihane, Lansbury, and Grealish are front of the queue. Do we need a 33-year-old Whelan instead of another left back? Sounds like Burnley might take the option off the table.

Not saying we don’t need grit and graft in the middle, but unless someone’s taking Jedi’s spot, whoever provides it needs to possess some creativity, too. Otherwise, if you’re playing Jedi and Whelan in a three-man midfield, you’re going to need two very good wing-backs, seems to me. Maybe we end up having that, but it’s not clear from the current roster’s preferred positions.

What About the Goals?
Just about everyone agrees the biggest area of concern is finding a way to goal more often, since we really should have enough in the side to score for fun. Kodjia, as we’ve seen, can create on his own, but it’s clear we need someone else not just chipping in but scoring regularly. Out of 12 midfielders, it’s hard to believe we don’t have at least two who can create chances, and hard to believe we can’t link up play and stop trying to make Kodjia a hold-up man.

Which reminds me that Ross McCormack is back, and in the brief video I saw of training camp, he looks a bit slimmer. Along with Scott Hogan, that’s £30-some million in strikers. Then there’s Rushian Hepburn-Murphy and Keinan Davis trying to stake a claim, and Gabby playing out the string. Barring Gabby, there have to be goals there.

In other words, we should have the players. What we need is a system where job one is to stop lumping it forward, and start giving these players the kind of service they need to thrive.

Move Along, Please
Dr. Xia’s lamentations about ridiculous contracts are spot on, and his frustration is understandable. The surplus-to-requirements list we know all too well. It’s hard to believe Richards is still on the books. I think I’ve forgotten what he even looks like. Rumors indicate Cissokho is likely off this summer. Sanchez has already gone, of course, and one assumes Gil will be joining him. Veretout? I’d imagine we’ll find a way to get someone else paying his wages, but have no idea how much we might recoup. Gollini?

Elphick as cover isn’t the worst thing, given we really don’t have any depth at CB. But really, I think most everyone would prefer to see Jedi dropping back in the event of injury, which is virtually a given with Baker. And Terry is no spring chicken. Jedinak himself is no lock week-in, week-out, fitness-wise. So there’s another area of concern. Does Christopher Samba have a part to play here? I guess Richards will be a rather expensive reserve as I don’t see much interest in him, but he’s a bit of a liability in the middle.

So there we are for the moment. I can see why outgoings need to be a priority, but not yet seeing enough links.

All I have left is a shout-out to Mr. Lerwill for a great series of articles that kept football in mind in a refreshing way. I know I learned a thing or two, and it was very pleasant to have a break from all the silly-season talk.

Over to you.

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John Clark
John is co-owner of AVL, and has followed the Villa since the '70s. A journalist by trade, he is, by most accounts, a very nice person. You can follow me on Twitter @JClarkKohoutek. It's an astonishing experience. Or a complete waste of time.

Comments 140

  1. IanG

    Ta JC just about what many of us are thinking.
    I’d rather have Lydon than whelan.
    The outgoings are crucial I think, otherwise there is no balance & self understanding as a team, & it could create problems in the motivation, team spirit & bringing through the young players of the future.

  2. Trinity

    Hello, JC.
    There is a lot of food for thought in your article. Thank you.
    I’d also like to second the shout-out toJL.
    Given the hodgepodge of players Villa is collecting, it seems the numbers don’t add up in terms of Bruce having settled on a first team. In theory, having so many players competing for a few spots should create competition, and hopefully the cream rises to the top. He has said for a while he wants to bring in a few more if it improves the squad.
    There is a wealth of midfielders at the moment. Can Hourihan and Lansbury play together effectively? If they are allowed to play more forward, they can, I believe. As you said, the wing back situation needs to be sorted. Whoever takes Amavi’s place needs to know soon and cover needs to be sorted otherwise we will see hot-cold players like Bacuna featuring often.
    I hear Peter Crouch might be coming back. I thought we had plenty of forwards. PC would create a bit more competition up front, if only for this season. With the African CC players absent last year, Villa was found wanting for goals. I hope RMC and Hogan can really step it up. I hope the midfield is on to it this time.
    I think Whelan is fair cover for Jedi. We know Baker is injury prone, so cover is always needed there.
    Shame about Richards et al.

  3. Paul Pears

    Very interesting times, and a good summary of the Villa stock book JC..!!

    Will the opening game be featuring Villa’s new golden oldies, with the odds on Peter Crouch coming to Villa now at 6/5. Hope it is not an inspired deal to feature Abby Clancey as the new Villa mascot…although she is certainly an asset.

    I think everybody feels that it will be a back three of Chester, Terry and Baker, but after that the permutations will be endless.

  5. John Lerwill

    JC,

    Good to see your thoughts put out in your inimitable style! … And thanks for the mini-appreciation society on the old articles I put up! 🙂

    On the matter of the left-wing-back spot and Taylor seeming to be the only option there, let’s not forget that Baker started his Villa life as a left-back. Not that I’m touting him as Taylor’s backup, but he is able to fit in there. Should that occur, Baker’s place at c-b could be taken by the Jedi. And there’s Bjarnason, who has played at l-b.

    But we have got a few weeks to go to see what happens in the ins and outs department, and until then we’re guessing a bit really.

  6. Mark King

    Thanks JC- Some common sense shone on the situation, we are far from sorted or ready as the numbers we still have prove imo. Bruce favours a smaller squad than RDM did. I don’t think a 352 will be the formation though, terry could not break into Chelsea’s back three and has been in a back four forever. His pace wont allow him to play in a three and other than Chester who’s no speedster we have no pace at the back.

    A general shout out, Is there any chance we can stop attacking posters for being not deemed positive? it adds nothing but aggro to the blog (which I am fine with if all involved can take what they give in return. ) Stand your ground and argue your point but when has someone’s opinion on someone else’s happiness had anything to do with football?

  7. John Clark

    IanG, Paul….

    It wasn’t til I started listing them all out that I realized how many players we have, and the lack of balance in the distribution.

    Pruning is a must, but to your point, James, Xia’s rightly frustrated that players like Richards aren’t easy to move. And the more marketable players are the ones you’d rather hang onto, at least at first.

  8. John Clark

    Paul, Mark…

    I keep hearing about a back three, but as you point out Mark, and as I got thinking, I’m not sure why it makes sense given the personnel we have.

    As John says, maybe Bjarnason can do the job on the left. Though I’m not fond of Baker playing out of the center.

    But, yes, long ways to go in the window. Risk is that we’re still needing certain kinds of players to fit a system we’re trying to implement. Seems like we’re much better staffed for 4-4-2.

  9. John Clark

    And, correct, Mark, civility is the only order of the day. Just have fun with it. We’re all on the same side in the end.

    Maybe we try an experiment where people switch sides and argue the other point of view?

    For my part, I try to stay balanced as I’d like to be considered an honest broker, though of course something’s often just good or bad and you have to call it.

  10. John Clark

    Also, in the interest of balance, while I think the concerns I point out are real enough, they needn’t be crippling. For starters, a little luck with injuries for a change would go a long way. And maybe Jedi comes back better after the surgery.

    So Iana may well be right that we could use a Whelan as cover for a year. I’m okay with that if we’re still bringing along Lyden, for example. But we don’t want to put a 33-year-old on good wages on the books for very long. The Terry deal makes more sense given it’s a one-year contract.

    I like the players likely making up the starting XI—we should be able to do a job with them. A couple reinforcements won’t hurt, but overall we should be good enough, and we could be better than that.

    The trick is pulling it all together.

  11. John Clark

    And John, back to your point…

    I’m hoping Bjarnason turns out to be an important player. It was just 20 minutes, but before he got hurt, he really was having an impact in that game. If that’s what he brings regularly, could be just the infusion of energy we need.

    But of course now I’ve gone and said it, so….

  12. OldVilla

    Mark K – “A general shout out, Is there any chance we can stop attacking posters for being not deemed positive? it adds nothing but aggro to the blog (which I am fine with if all involved can take what they give in return. ) Stand your ground and argue your point but when has someone’s opinion on someone else’s happiness had anything to do with football?”

    I presume that the above may have been aimed a me a bit? If so, you obviously didnt read my comment on the previous thread in which I said the following:
    And on the subject of negativity and positivity – it isnt about being either positive or negative, its about having a balanced view. I certainly have hammered the Villa in previous years about Villa and Gabby and about the old regime as they systematically destroyed my club. Which could be viewed as a positive negative lol ……
    And as most of us will say on here, we know that things arent right yet but we can see the green shoots of recovery and as such will always say “we dont know how it will all pan out yet, so lets wait and see before ripping the club and all who sail in her apart yet again”
    Yours in a Lib/Dem mode, oldvilla

    Have a good season all,
    oldvilla

  14. John Lerwill

    JC: “we don’t want to put a 33-year-old on good wages on the books for very long. “

    I was interested to see a Brum Mail article the other day that was quoting the Villa powers that be saying how crazy the previous regime’s management of contracts was. I see the present lot as being a lot more professional in their approach.

  15. Mark King

    morning OV- Yes I did read that, its the rest of the comments after aimed at JG being grumpy then being told to have a sense of humour about it while you failed to have one when he linked the several old players to your green shoots comment then dragged me in because I found that comment funny, I laughed at it just as I would if were all sat around a table gabbing. Then Archie decided we all want the villa to fail, all a bit playground stuff isn’t it? Granted humour does not always come over well in text but I did notice there was a full moon last night 😉

  16. OldVilla

    Mark, calling JG MR Grumpy was a bit of fun ……….. you can call me what you like and it really wouldnt worry me, try and hit me then that would be a bit different.
    I wrote what I considered to be a reasonable piece about the green shoots bit and then of course the normal mickey take on all things AVFC and its all going to pot etc etc turned up and I just thought why bother?
    As I said – I promise not to be horrible and hurt peoples feelings with such awful names.

    Your bewildered oldvilla

  17. Mark King

    JL- I think they have to be as we are so close to ffp rules right now. They did however give Gary Gardner a 5 year improved deal and RMC a 4 year deal and several others amongst the squad. If those players don’t work out is that not just the same? it must be incredibly frustrating.

    I am looking forward to seeing a fit thor play, he was thrown in quite recklessly by bruce and got injured when not fit , always a danger when your an all action type and running on adrenalin.

    I saw a comment that some reading fans want Tishbola back to replace Williams that went to Huddersfield so they still rate him at least.

  18. Mark King

    OV- As I said humour is a hard one in text mate and can be construed quite differently to your intentions. I can give and take it personally if thats the ground rules but quite often its not with all our cryptic writers claiming something entirely different to how you’ve read it, Noel Coward we are not 🙂

  19. James Gill

    john clark
    the doc keeps rattling on about lerners time yet we sign jedi for 4m on long contract who i think is 33 in august, adoamh is 30 at xmas ,give hutton a new contract and then terry deal
    you listed most of players and its crazy numbers wise and quality so low
    keepers
    bunn got another new 1 year deal never got a run in team so why keep as back up
    steer is it 5 or 6 years herenow and no starts why time to move on
    sarkic [degea courtious] where playing at this age
    gollinaout on loan but not playing
    so 4 keepers and none deemed good enough to start what is goalie coach doing

  21. Mark King

    JG I agree mate, Its early doors for round and co but why is it we don’t trust the players we have or the youth? baffles me. A lot of the contract were OTT to attract the likes of Elphick, Chester, RMC, etc I suppose in the hope that we would bounce back and the money would not matter, now yet again it does.

  22. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Yes, I wonder what “best passer” means? Knowing how to play an accurate square ball, perhaps?

    It’s hard to think of a ‘better’ passer in their team than Shaqiri.

  28. IanG

    Mark
    ‘Noel Coward we are not ‘

    More like Oscar Wilde if you ask me
    You can’t get the faces on the mac version of this site, so in future you’ll have to imagine them as I can’t keep copying & pasting [or was that passing]

  34. Mark King

    Jc- yes has a long forward pass to his game, could mean we are going to sit tight and hit on the break, no surprise really to me its bruces go to, he would rely on hernadez’s speed for the out ball from huddlestone his DM or wide to elhammady. Its all starting to look very familiar.

    IanG- I had the feeling the lad wasn’t right it was a nasty injury and he never looked the same player going forward, some of his runs were electric and defensively he used to cover behind for the CB’s under Garde, he certainly didn’t look very poor at the back as he did this last season

  35. James Gill

    iang
    hope thats not a mate said ov needs total truth on here
    so that set transfer coffers back a bit 25m in jan now we probably have to pay a club to take him

  38. DarrenO

    Hello all, back after a sojourn in sunny south Spain

    Playing catch up as I avoided the internet and social media as much as possible, looks like I’ve a lot of reading to do re JL’s articles.

    Disappointed to still see there is a battle between good vs. evil depending on whether your opinion glass is half full or half empty.

    Well by way of opinion, I’m disappointed that Terry was considered an option never mind being pursued by Villa but perhaps Bruce needs eyes and ears in the dressing room because he certainly won’t get 46 games out of him. Which if it is eyes and ears or merely just buying a winning mentality then it’s a very expensive price that could have been better spent of a future star with a sell on value as opposed to a one season wonder. (I note from Facebook, the social media warriors have convinced themselves of his British Bulldog presence and ignore his off-field ‘qualities’ and his lack of game time with Chelsea).

    If we were potentially going to only get as much as 8m for Amavi, then clearly we weren’t cashing in on him and rather proves that the FFP noose that UEFA have strangled clubs with, has meant any player with some value and deemed surplus to requirements is up for sale but for every Amavi, there are too many Gabby’s, players with no sell on value and weekly pay above the type of club they are actually suited for.

    As for next season, I have and will entirely give up on predicting anything, you will not see one comment assessing pre-season friendlies either, mostly because it is entirely futile, there is only one outcome for this season and that is promotion at all costs, or we find ourselves circling back around to getting another manager with different ideas but now limited by FFP when RDiM and SB have enjoyed pre FFP budgets and achieved nothing but imbalance in the squad.

    It is the promotion at all costs which scares me as either the football will be spectacular (and therefore not scary but pleasing) but there is no evidence from last season that it will be or the football will be dour but effective, enough to get us over the line (highly likely but equally risky with 23 other teams playing similar or better).

    Whelan – pointless signing, a darling of midfield for Martin O’Neill at int’l level but unless I’m very unappreciative of unnoticed interventions in games I don’t think he adds much to the Irish cause and assume the same for Villa.

    SB only needs to develop a way of playing that suits our forward players (midfield and strikers), our defensive unit/bus was very successful last year, I don’t think the team overall requires additions as there is enough competition. Some players need to go, even if it’s just to break up the often mentioned cliques at Villa. Anyway, onwards and upwards my fellow Villans towards another bumpy ride on the good ship AVFC.

  39. John Lerwill

    DOR: “back after a sojourn in sunny south Spain”

    Welcome back Darren. Weighing up the options of supporting Barcelona I see?! 🙂

    Yes, predictions of anything are very much hit-and-miss, particularly at this moment, but at least the atmosphere around VP sounds +ve. I would suggest that Terry is helping at least in that he seems game and upbeat, an attitude that the others will do well to follow. And whether he plays 46 games or 26, he should have a good effect on the others in the squad.

    Strange thing about Amavi isn’t it? Last year rumoured to be worth £25m and now we’re hard pushed to get a bean for him!

  40. IanG

    How Aston Villa plan to keep fans in the loop on pre-season friendlies:

    All friendlies to be screened on the Club’s Youtube channel.

  41. Mark King

    Could be Amavi will need another year of rehab to be the player he was or at least hinted at, the fear may still be there from incident hence the reluctance in his defensive work, feel for the lad he seems a decent enough bloke.

  43. DarrenO

    JL, the colours Barcelona use are quite nice but not exactly ours, their brand of football is ok, too much emphasis on being brilliant and not enough hoof ball for me 🙂

  46. IanG

    Mark
    They told me not to renew until the new scenario is revealed as it will likely be done differently.
    I’d stop any DD if I was you until any announcement, then go with it.

  49. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Yes, I agree, it’s an important video and well worth watching.

    I’m inclined to think that ancient medical methods – particularly the Chinese and Indian – would not have allowed the errors in western medicine that have taken place. Also the Arabic Tibb system. I’m also inclined to think (having tried it) that homeopathy has a lot going for it and a better option over allopathic techniques (western medicine). But, of course, western practitioners very often (usually?) downplay these methods.

    OK, if we don’t wish to follow oriental techniques, let’s at least pressure for change in the allopathic system which is used in the West.

    However … I suggest that one’s approach to diet is also better directed by a sound (holistic) personal philosophy. If you have that – and apply it – then all else tends to fall into place. As in all life issues.

  50. Mark King

    JL- I agree with all you have said.

    the video that follows on is even better, our fight with bacteria and the environment is lunacy right now monsanto’s glyphosphate is at the epicentre of the rise in all disease through cronic inflammation that starts in the gut and the decimation of our gut biome thats mirrored in the soils.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTcMWML2EsY

  51. Mark King

    information really is the key, if a cell does not get information it will go into self protection mode which is Cancer and inflammation by burning glucose as fuel. Without information it does not know how to terminate its self as it ordinarily would and duplicates. A cell given the right information can go on forever.

    Glyphosphate on its own or coupled with Gluten wrecks the gut wall and the communication networks that talk to the entire body and decimates the gut biome and all the information that it provides to the body.

  52. Trinity

    Mark/JL
    Inflammation is the culprit at the root of heart disease too. Cholesterol is used by the body as a kind of bandaid to shore up broken arteries, and can lead to blockages, but inflammation is the core problem.

  53. Mark King

    Iana- yes it is but it all originates in the gut and gets into the blood when the gut is compromised, its thought to be the driver behind Asthma, arthritis,cancer, heart disease, depression, anything with itis on the end and Villa’s last 6 years of misery

  54. IanG

    This whole Amavi transfer saga is bizarre.
    I picked up that apparently Seville are already known for being very unreliable, along with Marseille, especially to do with transfers & money.
    Shame for Amavi, must be tough.
    According to the Doc the medical results were 100% ok.
    Then another twist with Seville then asking for Amavi on loan.
    Turned down flat of course.
    Cat amongst pigeons…

  55. James Gill

    iang
    think this knowledge that we are sailing close to ffp leaves us in corner , buying clubs hold all the cards, another reason why i think the doc should be looking close at wynes and round, spending in january and then fasting in summer
    none of january signings made any impression

  56. IanG

    JG
    They haven’t come to terms yet with the chaos they came into, but we will soon see in the coming season what the prevailing pattern will be.
    Doesn’t seem right to pull the trigger so quickly in this.
    Your response that ffp is to blame for the Amavi saga doesn’t make sense when you look at the facts, & to keep riding a hobby horse about Round & Wyness, although understandable in general also doesn’t gel with the facts here, but I understand & share your frustration.

  57. IanG

    JG
    I am referring to the new signings as not having come to terms with the general chaos last season, which would be more to do with Bruce & injuries.
    But we will see if you’re right soon

  59. James Gill

    as for round and wynes plenty to seem think they are doing great work i think the opposite dont really see any change from fox and lerner
    only players we are linked with are old players at end of career
    we have signed some young talent but we had plenty of our own we never used

  60. IanG

    JG
    As for Seville coming back for a loan, I see it more as taking the proverbial & symptomatic of the mental state of their owners, who have done this game a number of times, & to take people’s mind off what they actually have done by pretending that there was a problem with the medical [according to the Doc that was not so], & as he said, it is even more unfair to the player as it will impact him more.
    It seems to me that someone in their hierarchy disagreed with the deal & pulled a stunt to stop it, which Seville apparently have done before.
    Maybe their owners fight each other, as it looks like it’s normal there.

    As for Round & Wyness, No one could be as bad as penny pinching incompetent Fox & Lerner, & I can’t believe you see it that way.

    As for being linked to old players, for now that’s all it is, media speculation except for Terry & possibly Whelen, plus one or two more out of a squad of 45 that are already there.
    That’s why I’m waiting to see what actually happens rather than running on fears.

    As far as the young players are concerned, it isn’t IMO so black & white, as the majority will not make it to the first team, due to circumstances that are not controllable, or that their progression plateaus, personal circumstances & more reasons.
    We have to sign new young players to bring through the system as players leave to have a football career elsewhere, as we can’t source enough locally as things stand, but signing young players is necessary.
    The fact that we would like to see the young players that are ready be involved in the first team & play more, & I think we all agree on that.

  61. Mark King

    IanG- we didn’t really try to source locally unfortunately they have only just begun in that respect. WBA and brum get the lions share as we didn’t have a Midlands scout at youth level can you believe?

    Can’t quite understand our spending policy last season other than a failed crack at promotion which would of sorted our problems or the fact it had reached the end of the 3 year FFP period and they had to act quickly to get the money spent due to the massive loss made last season by learner and co? maybe that was our get out clause to some degree.

  62. Mark King

    IanG- As for young players we don’t give them a chance, plenty of Villa cast offs at other clubs that finished well above us in the play offs and Hogg at Huddersfield got promotion as did our friend at Newcastle so it may not be down to quality but lack of coaching and chances.

  63. John Lerwill

    Mark: “As for young players we don’t give them a chance”

    Well, historically chances have been given with a mixed bag of results.

    The Moore brothers were greatly heralded but faded in front of our eyes, didn’t they?

    There were one or two brighter ones. Albri was perhaps the brightest spark in recent years, but ‘we’ said he wasn’t what we wanted. We would have preferred to keep Stephen Davies, I think, if we knew the last 6 or 7 years were going to materialise. JLloyd Samuel was another who seemed to be destined for better things, but then faded. Liam Ridgewell wasn’t bad, as per Clark.

    They said that Gary Gardner was a better proposition than his brother Craig, but I don’t think that’s happened.

    I think it takes a lot to succeed from the youth ranks at the same club. But I do think that Green at least has all the hallmarks of a good ‘un. Jack? Mmmmm… Still don’t know what to think and he’s not really a youngster any more.

  64. IanG

    Mark
    Yeah, no youth scouts, it’s amazing how the standards fell since deadly left, & I never thought I would ever say that.
    But as things stand we need to find the best prospects where we can until the damage is reversed.
    Also at least we were spending, which was a vast improvement on Fox & Lerner.
    Now maybe some intelligence to go with it maybe.

    JL
    Absolutely, & there were a few more of course.
    There always used to be a couple in the Team from the youth set up, but there have been many who transferred to us when they were young, such as Cahill, Little, & many stayed, or would have until we unbelievably got rid of them.
    I think our youth set up for local kids has been haphazard for many years.
    But at least now there is a focus on it again, but how long it will take to bear fruit is anyone’s guess.

  65. DarrenO

    Villa youth has been a catalogue of missed opportunities, mis-management and poor scouting.

    In my opinion the true start of the downfall began with Lerner and the greed that enveloped project Premier League. Even the early years of PL had many youngsters that came thru, notably Man U, but every team were continuing to blood youngsters in the first team to varying degrees of success.

    The change in PL from being a homegrown event to worldwide and the money that followed meant pressure was on clubs to bring immediate success, only Arsenal have bucked that trend and it may be more admirable if there were titles to prove Wenger’s approach as opposed to the narrow-minded debate of Wenger being penny-pinching.

    The quest for success or avoiding relegation meant blooding youngsters was reduced to one off talents that couldn’t be ignored. MON spent big and was out of control, ignoring youth development, we all sailed the ship of being back in Europe and finishing 6th and then the Sheikhs arrived and Lerner left.

    In addition, and focussing on Villa, the numerous first team manager changes despite the relative stability of KMac at underage level meant there was a disparate approach to playing football, tactics etc. Evidenced by us playing good football in the Hong Kong Sevens, the European Youth Cup victory and our performances at underage level in general. I know there is an attempt to get all levels playing the same game but the fruits will only come in 3/4 years.

    As MK referred, scouting has been a massive problem for Villa from not having one locally to not identifying players that would actually make it and for those that made it to a professional career, 99% found it with other clubs so from a return on investment point of view, we neither made money from selling them nor was the first team improved.

    We were a shining example of how not to run a club but there is a silver lining in the approach that Round is taking, I’ll give him all the time he needs on this long term project because we’ve been very short termist up until now and that still pervades the first team mgmt.

  66. IanG

    DOR
    Well put mate.
    It was happening before Lerner though, it just came to a negative head with Lerner.
    From some of JL’s posted articles, it seems to have been going on since the war or before, in waves of non enlightened self interest.

  67. James Gill

    dor
    chelsea probably have spent more on youth football in last 20 years with some glory in underage football, but since john terry made his debut i dont think any other youth team player has started a dozen matches, think we are going round in circles every step forward is another back like signing bree as fullback then giving hutton new contract,same with young strikers taking gabby back in fold, really think last august we missed chance to completely clear decks of older players and start with fresh and hungry players like wagner and even rafa at newcastle laid down the law

  68. DarrenO

    Thanks IanG

    JG

    Completely agree, a missed opportunity to plan long term for Villa’s return to the prem vs. a new owner seeing the riches that the PL generates and wanting to be part of it, hopefully Round’s work will bear fruit while the first team get all the pressure.

    I was watching Sky Sports News the other day and the money making capability of the PL is described as being ‘relentless’. We all want our team to be playing in the top league but at what cost. Lerner and Fox ripped the soul out of the club, can it be restored with that necessary evil money clouding judgement.

  69. James Gill

    dor
    if rumours on facebook are true whelan has passed his medical and agreed terms, what is going on from young and hungry to past it and old has beans, we only have a dozen [12] or so midfielders at the club already

  73. Mark King

    good stuff lads, I think our major problem is blooding youth in low quality and usually on the back foot teams in recent years, even Mon played on the counter. Meanwhile the youth football is played in a swashbuckling manner, its down to coaching in my eyes and the recent promise that Round was going to bring a villa style so continuity of play is the norm hasn’t even began. No surprise Bruce is looking for players to play the the Bruce way because he has this season only to get up.

    These reasons are why I am disenchanted with what I see, from the desperate play to the ignoring and selling of some very reasonable youth players. We could have , Hogg solid DM, Johnson links play and scores, Robinson pacey forward, Baz Bannan playmaker and Clarke who has just learnt how to play at CB under Rafa. Non of them looked great in an under-performing Villa side, in a side with structure and more freedom they have.

  74. Mark King

    Just listened to Hogans video and it was quite a revealing one, he said he had set a goal of 25 goals last season and he said he would of got them if it wasn’t for circumstance (ie joining us 🙂 )
    He also mentioned the long runs they are doing are good for bonding and mentioned the lads coming in at xmas ( wonder if they have had words?) its worth a listen

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwwM37UZib0

  76. Mark King

    Anyone else watch the games on Youtube last night? awfully quiet on here considering? I managed to watch one on the tele and one on my ipad so got a good overall view.

    The Kiddy game was a fairly slow paced affair and sadly I didn’t see much that was new to report. Hogan looked sharp and him and McCormack combined quite well. Hutton seemed like the out ball with his usual mixed bag of passing but the three mids seem to be fairly static on the passing front choosing to hit the wingbacks over supplying trough balls to Hogan or RMC. Richards was comical and Hutton absent a fair few times but we know that. Toner did ok when he came on as did Chester with several last ditch tackles. We could of scored more but so could they. Bizarrely Kiddy had played derby the night before and lost 4-0. Tishbola looked the most accomplished midfielder overall but Hourihane got a goal and an assist otherwise didn’t affect things in the middle to any great degree.

    The telford game threw up some tantalising questions, Green was the stand out on the night prompting from all over the pitch so maybe has more to his game than just a winger, some of his passing and through balls were very good. Vertoute pulled the strings in the middle very well and Samba had a great game at the back even bursting forward to supply a pass that really should of been finished. Gabby scored but overall was clumsy and his pace was absent or at least he did not trouble their defence with it. late in the game the youngsters got a run and upped the tempo and caused Telford more problems than the 1st had but Telford may have been tired and they had a lot of trialists on the pitch. Lansbury scored two pens but otherwise I don’t remember him doing a fat lot. Amavi looked good.

  80. Trinity

    I thought McCormack looked pretty sharp. Good to see Green get a goal. Amavi had a busy day, Better than last year’s effort against Telford, much more settled,

  81. DarrenO

    Yeh I flicked between the two games, primarily watched the Kiddie game, not reading too much into the games, great to see the youngsters especially O’Hare and Green.

    Didn’t think McCormack looked overweight and it’s been picked up by those media outlets who make stories based on tweets but I’ll defer to those who seen him in the flesh. I will say it’s a partnership (with Hogan) that I’d like to see as it prevents us from playing hoof ball given how both forwards play.

    Fantastic that Villa have made the games available and checking youtube as I was flicking between games showed about 7/8k watching each games and a bit of hilarity from 15 yo Zulu warriors giving it loads.

    Still think we should retain Amavi as cover for Taylor as I said I don’t think we need additions just a way of playing that suits our forward players.

  82. Mark King

    DOR- biggest take away for me was the use of a deep lying playmaker, vermouth at Telford did well there and managed more forward passes down the middle whearas GG was hitting the wings from deep. Wheelan for me will be our deep lying playmaker, would prefer to keep vertout but money is the problem there plus his willingness

  85. John Clark

    Thanks for the round-up, Mark.

    Gave myself a bit of a headache trying to work and watch both games at the same time. Will have to re-watch, and then maybe post something for the morning.

  86. Mark King

    JC- multi-tasking? its a breeze 😉 had a look back at the Telford game and low and behold up pops lansbury with a few good passes and runs 🙂

  89. John Clark

    James,

    Didn’t get to focus on Samba much, but from all accounts he did well. Seemed to be in very good shape, knocked out Baker. The man is big. I think he’d make good cover and obviously add some strength to the back. Can’t cost much, and he’s virtually begging to play for us. Not one for the future, but I’m pretty sure I’d sign him.

  90. Mark King

    JG- If Samba can put in displays like he did against Telford in the champs then as JC said he’s a cheap back up. Personally can’t see JT playing every game or Baker (when has he ever) we have Toner too Elphick is probably off. His display wasn’t just average it was dominant, haven’t seen that form a Villa CB in years.

  92. John Lerwill

    Gentlemen! 🙂

    I am very worried that we may be taking these two friendlies too seriously.

    These are teams in the 6th rank I believe, and, although score-wise we have done better than the same time last year, any attempt at assessment is surely tempered by reality?

    That players like Mac and Hogan did not score is very worrying to me.

    The only comment I’ll make otherwise at this stage is that it was good to see some youngsters being given a go, and a couple of ’em looking as though they may well be challenging for spots this season.

    Otherwise it was just a game of footie to get ’em back into some kind of gear.

  94. Mark King

    JL- RMC had several shots on goal, can only remember Hogan having one saved? he was more out on the wings. Worth a mention that both teams we played were full of trialsts too, it was Kidddy third game in 5 days!!! we should be beating them 3-4 nil. It was worrying that the forwards where yet again not the focus of the midfields attention. Good we scored from elsewhere,bad that we had little lines of supply for the forwards.

  95. Mark King

    JL- Oh and I don’t agree it was just about getting them into gear, Bruce went to Telford to look at the also rans to some extent, he could easily have stayed at kiddy with what looked more like a first team (barring Richards)

  96. Mark King

    There seems to be a call on the net for a no10 playmaker type, I don’t think we need one myself, I think Grealish, lansbury, hourihane , RMC can play there but I was really impressed with Callum O’hare, who was terrier without the ball too, defo one to watch.

  97. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    By any stretch of the imagination, those matches were nothing but blown-up training pitch matches! How anything else can be seen in them is beyond my comprehension!

    And I stay by what I say about Hogan and Mac … at that level they must be on the scoreseheet. Well, at least on of ’em. For goodness sake, even Gabby scored! 😉

  99. Mark King

    JL- I will say this, Bruce has a big old problem and a big old squad that he might be stuck with, he still has a big old injury list to to come back too, Grealish, Kodjia, Elphick, Jedinak, Delaet, Richards and others plus Adomah and Baker who may or may not have serious injuries. Season starts in 3 weeks, No important players in yet other than Terry and more importantly no players leaving Bar Gil on loan. And he said himself this is when you work on the tactics.

    Could we see a repeat of last season with half the team arriving after five matches?

  101. James Gill

    jl
    agree ross and hogan need to be scoring ,but more worrying is reports of match bruce was at was same as last season hit on counter attack v non league sides, as was john terry was allowed to go to tennis good for morale that pick and choose when he plays

  103. John Lerwill

    Mark: “hogan and Mac? but its only a blown up training match”

    Precisely!! – If they can’t score at that level then what chance have they got in the Championship!

    The longer it goes on without them hitting the net the more nervous they’ll get.

  104. Mark King

    Jl- blimey bit harsh, are players not allowed to make saves and blocks at that level? I’m not worried by that yet they hit the target much like kodjia did under RDM consistently until they began to go in. If they were hitting the corner flag then worry, I think either would of buried tabbies chance from six yards out and no marking 😉

  105. John Clark

    Ha…That’s the spirit!

    JL, I love it. Mark, I love it.

    You’re both right, I think. McCormack does need to score as I think his confidence and overall state of mind are the most fragile. I wasn’t surprised when he took a shot himself that was saved instead of squaring it over to Bjarnason, who was wide open and clearly frustrated.

    The divvying up of the sides was interesting, as Mark says. With Veretout and Amavi in the Telford match, defo the set of players Bruce was running the rule over, the ones (apart from Lansbury, Adomah and Baker, as Bruce knows what they bring) by and large that are on the outside looking in.

    As everyone else has noted, Amavi really put his all into it. So that was telling (and fair play, Jordan), and Veretout showed up to play, as well. Green defo saw the match as an audition, as did Samba. The level of opposition was not high, obviously, but the players were taking the game seriously for themselves.

    What I also thought was interesting was how comfortable the young players were with the game and with each other as they were increasingly subbed in.

  106. John Clark

    Should say, I’m less worried about Hogan than McCormack at this stage.

    But, yes, you’d like to see them leading the scoresheet. The upside is that goals did come from elsewhere.

  110. John Lerwill

    JC,

    Forgive me, unless a striker scores he’ll not be happy … that’s what he’s there for in his mind. And the longer it goes on – no matter at what level – then it’s going to get to him if those shots don’t go in. Specialist strikers are almost always of that mind: “I must hit the net or I’m worth nothing”. Gabby will be more happy as he scored one, but I rather suspect that he no longer sees himself so much as a specialist striker.

    I’m afraid it’s a more serious issue than we seem to think. Yes, it’s good to see goals from all over, ’cause if we don’t score we’re not gonna win, are we? But it seems to me that Green is currently showing the most attacking danger – and he’s a winger. Mind you, that’s more to his credit and less excuse to leave him out. I like him.

  111. John Lerwill

    JC: “The level of opposition was not high, obviously, but the players were taking the game seriously for themselves.”

    Yes, they were, I agree – but for me most of the players’ movements were not great against this level of opposition. The quality you’d expect from Villa didn’t exactly show – for me at least.

    That youngster Clark showed ’em how when he went on a superb run through the middle and from which we gained a penalty.

  112. James Gill

    john clark
    samba been cheap is not the problem
    when you have richards and elphik picking up close on 100 thousand between them and not playing

  113. Mark King

    JL- I agree on that at least 🙂 the quality we had was not much better than a bunch of part timers and trialists other than Samba,Green, Chester and few of the kids we were bang average we just had the edge in the box. Kiddy could of had a few easily but for Chester and samba shut out Telford on his own. It didn’t however look like a bunch of players that understood what they were supposed to be doing tactics wise other than hitting long balls to the wingbacks, even lansbury turned up on the wing!! I also agree that RMC and Hogan need to score asap but neither have been given the service, in fact Hogan was the service, we don’t put many on the plate for them.

    To allay everyone’s fears I think we are still a team suited to a passing game rather than Bruce’s way, He needs those 2-3 players in to do that which leaves a lot of the squad useless, Green looks our best player but useless unless we use wingers, Nearly all the midfield are box to box attacking types and hogan and RMC need the midfield to function to score. Kodjia can get away without them but we wont go up on Kodjia getting 20 goals and the team 10

  114. Mark King

    One other thing, I jokingly said terry will be brought on with ten to go to score from a corner, well if we go three at the back we will have 3 of Baker,Terry,Chester and Samba potentially on the pitch, with hourihanes delivery? could be our main source of goals.

  118. Mark King

    Gabby has been challenged by Bruce and Wyness to earn a new contract, firstly I have always thought he was challenged and secondly does that mean he will be playing 🙁

  120. James Gill

    looking at some of these transfer fees flying about we cant afford any longer out of topleague
    walker 50m fee another 50m in wages,yet city said alaves was too dear on a free and 10m in wages

  125. Trinity

    Not time to worry. I do agree with JL, though. RMC and Hogan should be near scoring at will against Telford. Fair play to RMC, he otherwise looked sharp and hasn’t played for a long while. Hogan needs to be far more influential imo. Out of those two, I’d take RMC because he has a more complete game. This talk about him being overweight is rubbish. Hogan is talking about scoring 20-25 goals this season. I like the positivity. He has a long way to go, though. We’ll see.
    I thought both the teams made too many unforced errors.
    Micah is no central defender.
    RMC and Hogan do need to start scoring goals ASAP.
    I see they’re talking up the loan of Sam Johnston. That’s nice. Then what?

  126. John Lerwill

    Well, lads, it should be a bit more interesting against the Shrews today.

    Actually, I’ve been overlooking the fact that we’re still without Codger, the Jedi and Terry (and Jack), so I’d expect we’d be showing a lot more strength if they were around.

    As to tennis, it’s looking like Federer and Venus to be champs. Talk about a return to the good old days! 🙂

  127. Mark King

    jl- did you just mention jack in a positive way? most unlike you 😉 we are without plenty more which looks good from a strength perspective but bad if you want a cohesive side going into the season.

    Iana- We beat Telford 2-1 last season with a late winner is this progress? 🙂

  128. Trinity

    Mark
    It isn’t much better. It was a better scoreline, but we need to see more from 2/3s of the team. Today might be a bit more indicative.

  129. John Lerwill

    Mark: “did you just mention jack in a positive way? most unlike you”

    Well, I don’t know what you mean by that! I like Jack ‘s basic style and scoring ability – and always have – but the big question to me has been about his effectiveness. He scores very few and doesn’t make many either – except by getting penalties to be blown his way from time to time.

    So I put Jack’s name in brackets to indicate that I’m not sure whether he’s a great asset.

  130. Mark King

    JL- What I meant by that is you have never been convinced by him so in brackets or not I was surprised, and how can you be impressed with someone’s scoring ability when they don’t score many unless we are awarding points for style now 😉

    Terry has surprise surprise been announced as Captain 🙂

  131. Mark King

    Iana- I was being tongue in cheek mate, I would much rather see some formula of play over a huge scoreline whomever we play because all teams that get paid these days are pretty well drilled and fit, The difference between top and bottom has shrunk IMO. I was looking for cohesion,plan whatever you like to call it over goals although they can indicate that the plan is working, in this instance it was not really the case, the teams we faced barely knew each other let alone our lot having played together..

  132. Mark King

    starting team
    Johnstone, Hutton, Chester, Terry, Taylor, Veretout, Hourihane, Green,
    Bjarnason, McCormack, Hogan.

    that looks a starting eleven, really interesting that Vertout is in there?

    I think Jack could thrive in a team like this as a ten.

  133. John Clark

    JL,

    I do agree with both your and Mark’s assessments, wherever they might diverge. As the game wore on, I was thinking about RMC not scoring, and agree they should be scoring almost whenever they want against that kind of opponent.

    So, as you say, I would most definitely prefer to see him start knocking them in for all the reasons you suggest.

    On the flipside, these games hardly ever produce 7-0 wins. Which is what you’d think should happen. My guess is that like with cup ties, these guys are taking the opportunity to play against big teams, well-known players, give it everything, prove something, not get embarrassed, etc., and can be scrappy enough for 90 minutes to be a pain in the ass.

    But, like Mark’s saying, I’d still like to think we should be doing whatever we want in games like these.

  136. John Lerwill

    Mark: “how can you be impressed with someone’s scoring ability when they don’t score many”

    “Ability” doesn’t necessarily equate to quantity, does it?

    I was referring to the fact that he does have the ability to hit home superlative strikes. That’s the ability I was referring to.

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