Aston Villa came up against a very good side Tuesday night when they traveled to John Smith’s Stadium. Most of us were looking to this match as a measuring stick following a virtually unprecedented three-game win streak. How did it go?

The Good
Aston Villa were combative, passionate, and committed. They had the best of the first half, and were unlucky, once again, not to head into the break with a deserved lead. In particular, Connor Hourihane and Henri Lansbury continue to grow in influence, and James Bree, handed a start due to Alan Hutton’s injury, acquitted himself well. Jedinak keeps doing what he does, and overall, Villa weren’t terribly troubled by the Terriers. Seeing Hourihane in the box is…well, it’s sort of surreal seeing a Villa midfielder not looking to score from the edge.

Keinan Davis and Corey Blackett-Taylor also got brief run-outs, and with an injury crisis that’s perhaps just a bit overblown (counting de Laet seems a bit unfair, and Gabby’s absence is inconsequential…Bjarnason had only just started to show he might come good, and Green and RHM were hardly nailed-on starters), youngsters besides Andre Green and Rushian Hepburn-Murphy may be getting more chances down the stretch, which can only be good for them and Villa. Callum O’Hare made the bench, but didn’t get into the match. Grealish? Well, we keep hoping he’ll actually get stuck in, but…

In short, grounds for optimism, overall. We wanted a decent performance against a good team and we got a fairly reasonable one, even if it ended in disappointment.

The Bad
Villa still lost, were held scoreless, and managed just one shot on target. To be fair, Huddersfield had only two themselves, and both sides nine overall.

Injuries, of course, do play a part, but aren’t enough to qualify as an excuse. Villa’s starting XI last night was a decent-enough squad (as evidenced by a solid, competitive performance), but naturally, Steve Bruce’s options off the bench are now rather limited. He can’t call on Hogan for a change up top, and apparently won’t be able to the rest of the season. Can’t really call for much of a change in midfield. Can’t really call for much of a change on the back line.

There are those who’ll say it doesn’t matter much who’s on the bench because Bruce would still get the substitutions wrong. Regardless, his hands are tied a bit. Whose fault is that? Seriously, it’s an open question. Me, I wasn’t sold on selling Gestede. It never hurts to have a big striker with a good head for the ball, and he certainly was more dangerous than Ross McCormack. Water under the bridge, thought, eh?

The Ugly
Another silly goal. Villa failed to recognize or deal quickly enough with a “training ground” set-piece routine, and it cost them at least a point. I don’t really know if Johnstone could have done better. I’ve never played keeper. Tommy Smith was drifting wide and did strike a fine, low shot into the far corner. Villa were slow to react all round and Johnstone was definitely caught flat-footed. However you look at it, another avoidable sucker punch, the sort of thing that’s cost Villa all season.

•••••••••

Next up, another promotion contender in Sheffield Wednesday. This time it will be at home, which should inspire more optimism than an away game. My hope is that Villa are encouraged by their outing against Huddersfield and continue to push on. If they show continued commitment, the players can likely count on the supporters being behind them throughout. Taking a chance or two won’t hurt.

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John Clark
John is co-owner of AVL, and has followed the Villa since the '70s. A journalist by trade, he is, by most accounts, a very nice person. You can follow me on Twitter @JClarkKohoutek. It's an astonishing experience. Or a complete waste of time.

Comments 292

  1. IanG

    Morning JC
    Now all is right with the world I can go back to sleep.
    Yes it feels as if there are more possibilities for a positive result & that we have finally found a small progression, despite the score against the Udders.
    I look forward to Saturday a little.

  2. Trinity

    Hello John
    Thanks for the write-up, a fair summary of the match.
    It was a good enough performance to give us some confidence against Wednesday at VP. I am a bit worried we only seem to have one working striker at the minute.
    The supporters will get behind the team if they push forward. Kodija, especially will need that support.

  3. John Lerwill

    JC: “Another silly goal”

    I’m afraid when I read that and look at the goal itself on the video I do not see much sense in trying to make a claim about this being such an important issue.

    Throughout footie history there have been silly goals scored … but the object of the game is to score more than the opponent. And in that Bruce has identified the key issue – we must stop missing chances!! That issue is not Bruce’s fault – it’s the players that do the kicking and shooting! 😉

    It’s that that’s the key issue here. Villa’s play itself is taking shape, but there have been many chances that have been missed this season – yes, in RdiM’s reign as well as Bruce’s – and in that we should actually seek some solace as at least chances are being created. And in the current players we can at least some ability and cohesion taking shape.

  4. John Lerwill

    James: “how is conceding goals the way we are , or derby match , the end of rotherham match showing green shoots of recovery” (Previous Thread)

    Similar issue here … we just need to start putting away more of our own chances. With that will come the confidence and gelling of the team.

    In fact I’d much rather see Villa winning (or losing) a match 3-2 or 4-3 than winning (or losing) with a single goal scored. Of course, a return to the days of scoring 11 then 5 then 5 in successive matches would be welcome as well!

    But one of the greatest matches I ever saw was a second division match against Liverpool when we were 4-0 *down* with 20 minutes to go and finally drew 4-4 … and with virtually the last kick of the match we nearly scored the winner!

    Oh, when footie was footie…! 🙂

  5. John Lerwill

    JC: “I wasn’t sold on selling Gestede.”

    Agreed that he would have continued to provide another dimension, but just like Tony Hateley, his main capability was in putting home chances provided from the wings. Take that away and he was not a very useful player i.m.o.

    At least ‘Tony’ would regularly score, but that was due to his ability plus the fact that football in those days was more geared to that kind of play. In this day and age it doesn’t make too much sense to rely on a one-trick-pony. When Tony went to Chelsea and then Liverpool, his limitations were found out. A bit the same with Benteke I suppose, but I would love to see that player back at VP.

    But for that reason, I’m happy Rudy’s gone.

  6. James Gill

    john l
    we had similar run in december beating a few bottom teams and then look what happened,
    i praised the psg manager couple weeks ago, yet last night i thought it was spud in charge team set up to deep, every one back yet no one taking charge winning goal 10 psg defending yet 3 barcelona players free at back post just like us no leaders in team
    silly goals are common thread for villa yet its nearly entire new team so what are calderwood bruce doing about it , you wouldn t see pullis or big sam team conceding goals like that nearly 6 months after taking over

  7. John Lerwill

    James,

    As I tried to say to JC, “silly” goals are just goals no matter how they come … if we were giving away 2 or 3 per match I’d really be worried. if we have an opponent give away a “silly” goal do we worry about how it came? In Fact, I didn’t see anything particularly “silly” about their goal at all. You can argue that it could have been prevented, but that’s part and parcel of football.

    No, for me it’s more a question of *us* scoring more by converting more of our chances. In fact you could say that we concede goals the way we do because the defence becomes extra pressured as the game goes on and we don’t score. If we scored first more often – and built on that lead – then it would relieve that pressure.

  8. James Gill

    we are all in agreement we need playes in summer3/4 at most so we would have this team of players still on books
    gollina
    hutton richards elphik cissko
    tish gardner bacuna grealish
    ross gabby
    subs
    delaet gill vertout
    well over 20m wages on players that will not get in matchday squad

  9. James Gill

    jl
    we were 2 up v preston yet we conceded 2 silly goals ,forest goal, newcastle 2 goals, they are all the same, my point is where is coaching where are leaders on field my sons under 12 team are better drilled than villa so back to manager what are they coaching

  10. Mark King

    Hi folks quick one if we are now so good we just have to convert our chances what’s the difference then to RDMs reign? We drew with Huddersfield 1-1 in our third game they’d just beat Newcastle and Brentford . We created 18 chances and had 5 on goal and one disallowed. They had 2 on target and a deflected goal.

    Add to that only Chester played Both Huddersfield games. Third game in no gelling, we’d also done ok against the sides we recently beat at that time bar Bristol where we were winning.

    What has changed bar personnel and style?

  12. IanG

    MK
    Good afternoon, I never did get back to sleep.
    Well one thing that would be nice if it changed, is the amount of bizarre revisionism to suit people’s current psychotic agendas, that is going on in the world.
    Apart from that, what’s changed since the beginning of the season is everything, unless you want to see the same thing over & over.
    For me the beginning of the season is gone & I don’t see the point in bringing it back as the start of seasons is never comparable to anything else later, especially for the villa.
    We appear to be creeping forward again, which seems to be the Bruce’s preference [why I don’t know], & until he changes or is changed, I just focus on the individual player’s progress, & as a group.
    It was nice to see the academy kids there to be honest.
    If all I had to see was negative I’d go & watch AVFC ladies, & maybe the U23’s, as otherwise I’d be bored witless.

  13. IanG

    JG
    I think the bad habits ran deep & haven’t all been eradicated yet.
    Watching the goal I think they just reverted to the bad habits, as if they couldn’t quite believe for a moment that it had been them playing differently.
    But if they keep getting stuck in, then the glue which the club had been stuck in for so long, will dissolve & we’ll only have Bruce to complain about.
    But Bruce [or probably the sports psych] does seem to be sorting their psychology out a bit, even if he hasn’t managed to get them playing football so well.
    But then it is Bruce we’re talking about, & some things aren’t going to change there in any major way.

  14. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    I don’t think we are ‘that’ good or we have cracked anything yet….Christ we are 15th in the champ.

    But im like IanG , just looking for the team to improve week on week and take some positivity into next season.

    whats changed from rdm? we aint in the bottom 3 🙂

  15. Mark King

    IanG well that depends on whether you view the negative as a bad thing doesn’t it instead of the other side of the la la land coin 😉

    From a purely factual point of view we are still not scoring as other teams seem to with a completely new set of players. We have calls for patience and gelling not seen under RDM why? My guess is lowered expectations .

    The view is Bruce is an uprgrade on RDM because he won a few games but you could also say rdm never played those teams . The latest ones he did really early on without Jedi makes and kodjiah both essentials to Bruce in any wins. So there’s a case to say that rdm may have turned it around. You could say the same if Bruce had the summer window but he just had one followed by 5 losses.

    I don’t want rdm back I just see the irony.

  16. IanG

    MK
    If it’s a la la land coin then both sides are in la la land which is nihilistic mate, so it can’t buy much & you’d be stuck with the equivalent of an Indian bank & all you’d get is a la la chit.
    How’s that for irony!
    I personally prefer to not feed the negativity too much same as you, as I still have a sense of humour & it all keeps changing thankfully.
    The funny thing about expectations is that when you let them go the world’s a much bigger place, & you have a space to appreciate what is.
    As JL says this is nothing compared to the dark old days in the 3rd division, & certainly not perfect or how we would write the script if it was down to us.
    The funny thing about Bruce is that the team seems to function better when half the team is injured.
    I also had a sneaking liking for RDM, but it wasn’t to be as he was flawed.
    I’d prefer much more that we still had Garde, as I don’t think we’d be in this predicament.

  18. Mark King

    Iang yes mate I agree on remi, him and round could started something beyond a promotion team,and that’s what bothers me if anything.

    I said the other day Bruce is reactive, maybe if we had a plane crash he’d get it right 😉

  21. John Lerwill

    James,

    I take the point you’re trying to make… but my contention is that the season really did not start until about January 31 (end of xfer window). The current lot make up virtually a new team.

    So what happened two or three months ago should just be treated as something that happened but is now passed. Today’s main issue as I see it is about us scoring goals – not those the others score. We’ve only conceded 1 in the last 4 matches.

  22. John Lerwill

    Mark: “if we are now so good we just have to convert our chances what’s the difference then to RDMs reign?”

    I had already referred to this point of yours in an earlier post! 😉

    In that respect there is no difference. Today’s situation is today’s situation, though, as we have a different set of players in the main.

  23. John Lerwill

    IanG: “For me the beginning of the season is gone & I don’t see the point in bringing it back as the start of seasons is never comparable to anything else later, especially for the villa.”

    Pearls of wisdom! 🙂

    Precisely. What was in the RdiM past (very dim passed!) *is* passed.

    We’ve just had 3 wins on the trot without conceding and now we’ve just lost one by one goal and making a meal out of it.

    Roll on Saturday … a score of 4-3 would suit me down to te ground … but it would also provide ammunition for those who believe we shouldn’t concede any! 😉

  24. Mark King

    Jl- strangely kodjia scored only one under rdm yet we still scored a few among the squad now he is the main man , possibly as rdm played a more team passing game and pushed players forward more. When Bruce decided to bring back gabby you can see why, he wanted a quick direct striker like hogan. We are now back to mons tactics more or less and lambert’s and to a degree sherwoods

  25. John Lerwill

    IanG: “The funny thing about Bruce is that the team seems to function better when half the team is injured.”

    Yes, this *is* the strange one. Bruce admitted that too many players had come in all at once, yet the way the injuries have occurred has provided us with perhaps the optimum team that he can play – as things stand. Except there’s no major cover to speak of on the bench.

  26. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Well Bruce plays it as he plays it … I’m sure he doesn’t read MON’s handbook before he decides on how he wants the game played. 😉

    I’m pretty sure that the way Villa will play will evolve once we get onto a roll. At present the players are just about getting to know one another and have only just lifted themselves away from the relegation possibility.

  27. Heroes-and-Villans

    rdm was a bit mental. When he did have jedi he would play him as the only midfielder! isolated all the time. pretty much a 415 formation.

    How many times did e fail to close out a game, leaving 3 or 4 strikers on the pitch! clueless.

    Hogan back next weekend 🙂 kodja on the left Hogan up top adomah right.

    Hogans going to be great for us, I can feel it in my bones.

  30. Mark King

    Jl – all goals are somebodies mistake the team that makes the least mistakes wins 😉

    I don’t care how many we score or concede particularly as long as we don’t lose continually but I do want us to control the game a whole lot more. Second half Wagner changed things and bingo, we really had no answer. You can say it was lack of effective subs but wasn’t the best team on the pitch? Why could they not just adjust and attack?

  31. James Gill

    john l
    baker chester hutton jedi here all season. taylor supposed to be experienced, lansby played at this level for few years so i am not buying that they need time to gel,
    bruce for points promotion specialist ,can set up a team
    as far as i see bruce has failed in boths camps
    bruce against points can t build for future, buys old experienced brittish scandinavian players, can t get on with big name players, only plays youth when out of options, sets up not to lose
    all what he is doing

  35. Trinity

    I thought Wagner did suss Villa out in the second half. Villa were easily the better team in the first. It’s pretty difficult though when there’s only one proven central forward to play with.
    Looking forward to Wednesday on Saturday. It’ll be interesting to see how/if the team bounces back from the loss. I think they’ll do well.

  36. IanG

    lana
    You put just what I was going to post
    JG
    A Bruce fixation is soul destroying & preaching to the converted, as invoking him is a pain also for everone else.

  39. IanG

    JG
    I haven’t noticed anyone saying everything is rosy [that would be crazy], just not living the pain at the moment.
    It also may be your spectacles mate, as if you think of Bruce all the time it’s enough to depress anybody.

  40. John Lerwill

    James: “baker chester hutton jedi here all season. “

    Not quite James. Jedi arrived a bit late … aside from which they’re all the defensive side of the team, perhaps the easiest part of a side to be assembled.

    And as for how the defence played, I think Bruce has pretty well sorted that out since his arrival. He certainly has got the l-b position sorted. Taylor is not brilliant, but looks more reliable in my view.

    It’s the midfield and attack that caused has us the most stress in my view. And it’s only since Jan (as I said) that they’ve been assembled and have only just got to know one another.

    As for playing youngsters, well Grealish has certainly had plenty of chances. Green has obviously ‘made it’ and would be playing but for the injury. RHM would also be playing i.m.o. But you can’t simply play youngsters willy-nilly – they often take time to settle in.

  43. IanG

    MK
    Kodja is not a target man, & we haven’t got one, but he does score but I think he tends to stop others scoring.
    When he plays on the left he forgets & thinks he’s still playing in the middle, or wants a through pass on goal.
    He rarely passes the ball for anyone else, so better Green with Hogan when they’re back.
    Hogan’s runs were great, but the codger ignored him most of the time.
    Not a balanced side even without the injuries.
    If RMC & Tisch are not even getting a game at Forest then maybe they wouldn’t have been the answer either.
    I don’t know about Star City, it’s more like Conundrum Town.

  47. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    A yellow card to you for claiming the defeats in the Jan/Feb period were just down to the defence! 😉

    You made issues then about us playing with 11 players and not a team, and that was correct.

    It seems to me that Bruce finally got the defensive side fairly well sorted in the last month or so – particularly with the return of the Jedi in front of them. And slowly the other units are coming together. And when the glue has set we will have a team! 😉

    I wonder which team will receive at least 4 goals against them from Villa?

  48. Mark King

    Jl most of those defeats were down to jedinaks a sense in my opinion mr Bruce thought his buys would fill that gap wrong and neither does the defence work without him either

  49. John Lerwill

    I don’t think that argument holds, Mark.

    So far we’ve been playing with a fairly unsettled side – for all kinds of reasons – until the last few games.

    When we’ve had a further run with the main players of that settled side – and then if Jedi gets injured again – we’ll be able to assess more clearly.

    As IanG rather infers, there’s just no point in harping back to what happened until February. This club – after 7 years of nonsense – is only just getting itself back together.

  50. Heroes-and-Villans

    Its a myth kodjer does not pass….last few games put in some great passes.

    Im a big big fan of kodjer, so dangerous, strong, quick and dircect.

    His best quality is his character, never hides or worrys about misses. Him and hogan are gong to be deadly.

    Just waite till hogan starts flying, the boys a natural finisher.

  51. Paul Pears

    I am really failing to understand Bruce’s thinking on Tuesday night. The team he strarted with was ok, but at half -time or at the latest, the 60 minute mark, I would have substituted Amavi or Adomah for Callum O’hare, a great young player who gets really stuck and moves the ball forward, and provides lots of assists for his forwards. Instead he leaves it until we concede, following their substitution and change in tactics.

    The team had seemed ok for much of the match, until they clamped down and Kodjia and changed things up. It should be the other way round, and Bruce changing things up, and we need to be using the likes of O’hare now, who is a better offering than Davies.

  52. Paul Pears

    He also to me made poor substitutions at the wrong time, when he brought on Davies and then Blackett-Taylor.
    Difficult to judge too much, as have only seen about 10 minutes of highlights.

    Team itself is settling better, but more leadership still required both from the bench and on the field.

  53. Mark King

    JL- IMO The main reason the side was unsettled is Bruce, he changed and swapped systems and players, ever since he got his new players in and even before, Playing all of them at once was ridiculous, he had Green and GG when Jedinak was out he could of used both and didn’t. its been written before he has seen a team take shape as players got injured ad its true even in his first match with elphick and Richards getting injured. The I’m going back to 433 because we won like that? well…. genius

    \still enough moaning onwards to a wonderful display on Saturday 😉

  54. Trinity

    Mark
    It was strange of him to play so many new players all at once. Did he feel pressure from above to do that? Chairmen have been known to do that. Maybe ‘Onward’ should be the new club motto.

  55. r0bb0

    Yes we’ve made some silly defensive mistakes and paid the price for them, but as John points out, ‘every’ team makes them.
    Our defence has actually been pretty solid with only 5 teams having conceded fewer goals all season.
    The problem is clearly our goalscoring, particularly away from home where we’ve scored fewer than any other team.
    It is strange that under both RDM and Bruce we have created chances, but not put them away ‘despite’ having recruited the most experienced group of strikers in the division.
    My big hope is that they soon get back into the habit of converting the chances created. If they do, things will start to look SO much different.

  56. John Clark

    Silly goals.

    Naturally, everyone makes mistakes. The question is what kind and whether you get away with them.

    I can’t agree with the assertion that goals only come from mistakes. Sometimes you do everything right, and the other team just does something perfectly. The center-half is perfectly positioned, all the runners and outlets are covered, and the striker takes a brilliant touch from a lovely pass delivered under pressure, makes that half-yard of space and curls the ball into the top corner where no keeper can reach it. The other team just did something for which there is basically no defense.

    Moreover, you’ll often hear it said that ‘we need to play mistake-free football if we want to win’. In other words, in a tight game, or a game in which you’re playing a superior side, a mistake will often make the difference and undo 89 minutes of great work. Some mistakes still require a touch of brilliance from the opponent to exact a price. Regardless, if you’re goal-shy, you really can’t afford to concede anything avoidable.

    I don’t want to harp on it, because it was a blip in an otherwise good performance. But, as we saw, that blip was the difference. If you’re going to make mistakes, don’t make one like that. And I won’t say we gifted them the goal, because it was a good finish. Many players would’ve missed that shot.

    And of course, as many have rightly said, if we simply scored more, the occasional mistake-generated goal wouldn’t be a big deal. But if there are fine lines in winning and losing, that lapse is what defines the fine line.

  57. John Clark

    r0bb0,

    We have indeed been pretty solid defensively. And I do agree with everyone who says that if we took more of our chances, we’d be considerably higher in the table.

    RDM seemed to figure that with all the firepower, we’d overwhelm sides. And he wasn’t necessarily wrong, given the number of chances we created. We just didn’t convert.

    Bruce, on the other hand, is setting us up differently. And in Bruce’s approach, you have to convert a higher percentage of chances.

    Bottom line, for both managers, in one way or another, it’s been the conversion rate doing us in.

  58. John Clark

    Trinity, Mark…

    It’s a good question. It seems as though he did feel pressure to play them straight away. As you say, the unknown is whether the pressure was self-generated (especially given the streak we were on) or came from the guy paying for the players.

  60. Heroes-and-Villans

    Robbo spot on re defence.

    Like you say our def record up there as one of the best in goals conceded. Whats killed our season is not taking our chances and killing teams off. Leading to too many draws that should of been wins.

    Get fit asap hogan

  62. John Lerwill

    Mark: “The main reason the side was unsettled is Bruce, he changed and swapped systems and players”

    I did say “for all kinds of reasons”, but whether the changes are *mainly* to do with Bruce is a moot point, I suggest.

    He clearly found difficulty in getting what *he* wanted to be the right balance both in terms of ability and attitude, but that is all past now. Let’s see what formulates over the next few games now we have virtually a new team settling in.

  63. James Gill

    we might have a good defensive record, amount goals conceded, but would not say we have good defence, when you set up like we have been doing not to lose you are not going to concede with added bonus you are not likely to score either ie amount shots not on target, shooting from far out kodja, not building attacks, full backs not going down line crossing into box

  64. John Lerwill

    James,

    However, the team has been set up, the fact is that we do create plenty of chances. It was the same number as Hudders in that match and previously we’ve been clocking up double-figure attempts on goal.

    Furthermore, the team could easily have scored more from those chances, but we’ve been profligate.

    So I’m not unhappy with the way the team is set up.

    Rest assured, sooner or later it will come together.

  65. James Gill

    john l
    can only comment on games seen,sky or spurs on bbc and derby on stream
    as for shots how many on target ,ones that make a keeper actually move,
    huddersfield goal johnson never moved

  66. Heroes-and-Villans

    So we kicked off the season away to sheff wed and now we have the return fixture in which Nathan Baker will be the only player to of played in the first match. 10 changes including the manager and staff.

    I mean wtf. It’s a crazy stat and shows the word transition certainly applies! Not sure if ive seen that before with teams in the summer let alone during season!

  67. DarrenO

    So the answer is to score more than our opponents and all will be fine, sounds all a bit Kevin Keegan to me. Well it’s 33 scored vs. 39 conceded so yeh that will help. We’ve not won big or been embarrassed (except maybe Brentford) but that’s only part of the football story, it’s also about how you win and and how you lose/draw.

    And for us we’ve never won convincingly unless we could play Rotheram every week nor have we beaten the sides that have been consistently top (apart from Reading) but more importantly we draw or lose in very disturbing circumstances where through a lack of ability to control a game has either seen us capitulate from winning positions or fall apart when our early efforts aren’t rewarded with goals. There are two ways to apportion blame

    1. On the players but we’ve bought so many experienced championship captains that it surely can’t be solely down to them or they are human and mistakes happen like not reacting quickly to short corners or
    2. The manager hasn’t been able to either get his views across when he sees the game turning or has reacted too late or not reacted at all or training methods are an issue

    Too many of the causes are down to how the manager either preps the team or manages during the game. I’m in one camp when it comes to our failings.

    I’m firmly believe we have a squad that is very capable of promotion next season, I’ve my doubts about it’s ability in the prem but we’ve an EXPERIENCED manager who has admitted throwing too many new players in at once, a manager who has tinkered with formations to find a winning formula as opposed to having a system and getting buy in from the players to make it succeed.

    In my opinion, the quality (lack of) of the opposition and the looming relegation accounted for the three wins, Huddersfield were always going to win for two reasons, our injury list and a manager capable of managing in game in Wagner, even with our best first 11, I’d fully expect a settled/drilled side like Huddersfield to be flexible enough to find ways to beat us especially given our frailities.

    Onwards to Wednesday, more tinkering from Bruce due to injuries will hold back any perceived progression from the three wins.

  68. John Lerwill

    Darren: “So the answer is to score more than our opponents and all will be fine, sounds all a bit Kevin Keegan to me. Well it’s 33 scored vs. 39 conceded so yeh that will help.”

    😀

    Trust you to put me in my place! 😉

    But serrrrrrrrrrriously, Darren, those are the stats for the whole season and as Andrew has nicely pointed out this has been a season of one consistent issue it seems to me. And that’s change.

    We’ve even used something like 29 players so far this season.

    M’lud, I rest my case on the issue that the current team (that’s only been got together since January) needs to be given time to bed to bed in – injuries permitting, and there are plenty of those.

  70. John Lerwill

    Darren,

    Yes, well that’s what Bruce said on Saturday, too.

    And looking at the stats I was and am inclined to agree with him, given that the defence and midfield is sorting itself out then scoring goals is the next and essential requirement.

    As he said, they just need to take those chances – or some of them.

  72. Heroes-and-Villans

    yeah bruce has said it for a while. It’s not rocket science, we cant put teams to bed and get 2 or 3 up and then in the last half hour other teams throw everthing at us and we concede.

    Story of villas season
    Play well
    don’t take chances
    concede stupid goal
    draw or loose

  73. Heroes-and-Villans

    But with every game that passes we ware getting better. Lansbury and hourihan starting to influence things. especially hourihan who I noticed is getting in the box and running beyond the striker.

    Yes that’s right people ….a midfiederl who runs beyond the striker!!!

  74. Heroes-and-Villans

    As much as I like jedi and he obvs helps out a lot…going forward into next season especially at vp I don’t see why lans and conor cant play together allowing a 4231 or 4 maybe 4312.

    Johnson
    Bree chester baker taylor
    Lansbury hourihan
    adomah Grealish Kodjer
    Hogan

    or

    Johnson
    Bree chester baker taylor
    Jedi
    Lansbury hourihan
    Grealish
    kodjer hogan

  75. DarrenO

    But why talk in such simple terms why not talk in terms like we are working on an in game strategy that will ensure we control possession to limits our opponents chances alongside looking to increase our conversion ratio. Are Villa fans that simple that they can only understand we need to score more, why not come out and prove himself a tactician who is looking at all aspects of the game.

    I’m not convinced defence has been sorted as evidenced by an over-reliance on one player in Jedinak, tells me that there is work to be done, or are park the bus approach in some games given we have good attacking players. I’d like to see some depth to Bruce’s thinking as opposed to let’s score more than them, it’s a childish way of looking at football, can we start pushing our jumpers closer together for the goal we are defending too.

  79. Mark King

    Dor- as usual on my wave length mate.

    On Mistakes and Goals, it is very much true that goals come from mistakes, for every goal that happens be that a goal scored by a player doing everything perfectly equally means someone else did not execute things perfectly somewhere on the pitch, if every player did there job perfectly they would cancel each other out.

    Now somebody could make a mistake and gift an opportunity of an open goal which we have all then seen missed by the striker who also makes a mistake or does not execute his shot properly. Somewhere on a pitch someone cocks up and a goal results though is pretty much right.

  80. Mark King

    P.s. I think it was pep that said something like “goals come from mistakes the team that make the least mistakes will win”

    Now on why we don’t score? i think its because the type of chance we create are not the easier type to convert, we do not create enough space and time for the player shooting to take aim, because we play very much on the counter its down to our ability to transition from defence to attack. Most goals are scored from a few passes performed quickly before the defenders can react, we simply do not do that well or rely on individuals to beat three players and score, and that has happened for both managers.

    RDM had grealish,Kodjia,Ayew and fleetingly adomah all players that dwell on the ball and use individual skill to score. RMC and Gestede did not suit this and now Hogan does not suit this type of play. Bruce starts from so far back and he only has One player to hit generally because we sit so deep, its then down to Green, Adomah and Kodjiah to pick the ball up and run at defenders, hogan in that set up becomes a decoy.

    perhaps I could send Bruce this 😉

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NDSlsyT5RjgC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=goals+scored+are+mistakes&source=bl&ots=vfzM1Qtx6c&sig=jpdWRLNB0dwY0E5HheVtxjy9jwo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqkN2ux8zSAhVGLcAKHVu1CBkQ6AEIUjAJ#v=onepage&q=goals%20scored%20are%20mistakes&f=false

  81. John Lerwill

    Mark: “Now on why we don’t score? i think its because the type of chance we create are not the easier type to convert”

    I was enjoying your write up and then this spoilt it! 😉

    You may be right about earlier play creating less easy chances, but I’ve seen quite a few this past month that should have been put away without doubt. Hourihane (this time) has been the main culprit, but Kodjia also – despite the fact that he’s scored 13. we used to complain about Ayew doing this, but he has his replacements! … But at least Kodjia does score a few…

    Mind you, I generally agree that Villa need to improve the form of their creativity, but what do I always say? Just like Mystic Meg I say let’s wait awhile…! It will all come good…

  82. Mark King

    JL- To that I will say count the number of squared balls to players in space for a tap in this season? or even balls to players feet in the box, Shots from range are not a foregone conclusion with the modern ball moving a lot, hence 18 shots 5 on goals type stats. We seem to be all power and no Finesse but if you are snatching at chances thats what you get too. I do recall Kodjia under RDM consitently hitting target just not beating the keeper with several rivalling Gordon Banks heroics. Maybe next season we will score a bucket load to compensate 😉

  83. Mark King

    I have just watched the highlights from Huddersfield and the chances we had were just not easy chances and this is a game where Bruce is bemoaning not putting them away. Hourihane gets a ball played to his upper chest/shoulder area from 6 yards and cant get over the ball as it drops and skys it, Bree hits a shot from the edge of the area through a crowd from a cleared ball and Lansbury hits the bar from adomah getting tackled in the box and the clearance coming straight to him on the edge of the area, for me they were not well crafted chances.

    Their goal was a short corner and hourihane sold himself when he could of jockeyed the full back, the ref booked Kodjia for diving for a pen but missed the player pulling his shirt! not enough to knock him over mind but I thought shirt pulling is a no no?

    couple of things from bruces presser apart from the usual platitudes, he bemoaned having 9 players out but honestly would he have played more than one maybe two different? to me no, although its nice to have the subs but its fair to say he made a meal of it.

    He then said he played green because he had to and because he thought it might lift the crowd because he’s one of their own??? solid reasoning there and some arris licking

    An then he spoke of the 32 year old centre half Samba getting fit by playing for our stiffs, in front of our players in development mind and then says we will see what happens there but he’s only here to get fit???? what part of the long term plan is he???

    Its this kind of thing that puts me right off Mr Bruce I’m afraid.

  85. Mark King

    Oh dear

    OptaJoe revealed that Sheffield Wednesday had netted in a staggering 31 of their 36 league games, which equates to 86% of their games.

    With the likes of Fernando Forestieri, Gary Hooper, Jordan Rhodes, Steven Fletcher and Sam Winnall up front, it is no surprise to see them topping the charts in terms of scoring each game.

  86. Trinity

    Well then, we can expect to have a few goals scored. Just hope they’re not all against Villa.
    It’s important that They don’t fear Wednesday. They’re beatable, but everybody has to do their job. We’ve got the players. A loud VP could help. At least Villa are generally playing better at home this year. Most of the psyched out players have left. I think most will be going for a draw in this match. I think it’ll be an exciting match. If Villa parks the bus, Brucy needs paying off. I think Villa will go for the win, so will Wednesday. Should be an exciting match.
    I’m going for an out there 3-1.
    COYVB

  88. r0bb0

    Mark, Wednesday do seem to score in a high proportion of their games but that doesn’t tell the whole story.
    Their home and away form is a bit different. They are only the 17th highest scorers away from home. Only two teams however have conceded fewer away goals. This has left them losing only 6 of their 18 away games.
    Just from the stats, it would seem that they are perfectly capable of shutting up shop away from home.
    They’ve only scored twice away from home 3 times this season ( I hope I’m not jinxing us here!) which again suggests that they know how to play a tight game away from home when they need to.
    If we concede we just might well find them a pretty tough nut to crack but let’s face it we’ve found most teams tough nuts to crack this season.
    Let’s hope that today is the day that the luck changes and that balls start to sneak in off the post rather than bouncing out and that their keeper makes mistakes instead of being man of the match.

  90. IanG

    Nice dream lana.
    I see Clarke is dissing the villa again after being here so long, no class, claiming that now he has been taught how to play, wonder how long that’ll last.
    Not a patch on Milner or Barry or Cahill, who have been loyal wherever they go, proper people.

  93. Mark King

    IanG- it hurts but clark might actually be telling the truth, other players that leave and suddenly look the part bear this out IMO. lets hope round sorts this out, Bruce hinted at us now going for all the local talent that has been ending up at WBA and other unmentionables incredible really with 2 mil catchment area.

    Robbo- non of it looks good but if they park the bus I fancy Kodgia to get one, On the othe hand they have very strong front line and forestieri is a great player, just what we need IMO.

    JL- if thats all it takes to keep you lot happy 😉

  94. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Look, it was a shambles at Villa the past 6 years to last summer. I think we all know that, and Clark was there experiencing it.

    All before Brucie’s time, of course! 😉

  95. Mark King

    I agree JL it was a shambles and so many good players creped through our youth team even in mons time. Thats the problem when you play the way we have since lerner turned up apart from hourrier and Garde its been counter attack and defensive on the whole, thats where that football philosophy comes in and we now have bruces I presume? what is that exactly I don’t know? it appears to be more of the same to me, you seem to think he will emerge as a butterfly we will see.

  100. Mark King

    Jl- bannon says similar but they are bound to and they are not wrong as such. Without looking to deep it’s a reasonable conclusion given his record.

    Anyway David weir has joined the staff until the seasons end I don’t know in what capacity he is a big mate of rounds

  101. IanG

    MK
    It’s not about whether he’s right or not which is debatable as you say, but the fact that he keeps publicly putting the villa down after being here for so long & the entire reason he was able to be in a position to get a transfer.
    This is the umpteenth time since he left, & as I said, no class unlike a long list of others who have, & definitely no loyalty, which a long list of previous players also have.
    If he was so badly affected by the events of the last few years [who wasn’t], then some of it is down to him.
    Call me old fashioned if you like, but if you are not part of through your own choice you lose the right to criticise
    I had no problem with him deciding to go & wished him well, but this is different & not part of our personal agendas mate.

  102. IanG

    MK
    Bannon also had loyalty to the villa & the class not to snipe when he must have hurt when he was let go.
    If we are going to justify a culture of personal agendas, then it truly stinks

  105. IanG

    MK
    Doesn’t justify it at all mate.
    I’m talking about long term players not temporary managers.
    Yes one more injured it’s getting surreal.
    Long ball city at the moment.

  113. James Gill

    another poor half injury wise, but sub a right back for centre and all do hokey coke instead of either elphik or even MICA or swap taylor in take amavi back

  114. Mark King

    jG- shows he’s got massive faith in Elphick and Richards. Oh well sheff weds CH sent off in two mins of the second half we should win at least very strange game

  115. James Gill

    mk
    i don t rate either on what i have seen , but hutton few good games in a side set up 8 man defence has been horrific mostly, but it looks like we are going to be stuck with spud and not overly keen on round giving weir a job starting to resemble foxs reign job for boys

  117. IanG

    JG
    It may resemble fox etc in that way, but a grade or 2 better thank goodness.
    Hutton still can’t pass most of the time

  118. OldVilla

    JG – “i don t rate either on what i have seen”
    You are watching the match? How and where as I want to watch it as well …..
    Cheers, Oldvilla

  121. Mark King

    yep 2-0 but it has sounded more like cricket match on the radio, we know how to make a meal of things. these lot are 6th, really is a disgrace with our squad whatever way you view it.

  123. Trinity

    2-0. Good to win, a nervy win. A clean sheet. Still relying on Kodija for all the goals. Missed chances again. Got a result, back to winning ways. That’s important going forward. Hope Baker and Lansbury aren’t badly injured.
    Bannan played well for Wednesday.

  124. John Lerwill

    We continue to miss good chances, note, so Bruce is right – we really need to at least get them on target.

    Adomah may play in spurts but again an assist for one goal and Hutton should have scored from another pass from Albert.

    Two good and well taken goals.

  126. James Gill

    iana
    we were 2 up and yet again we take off striker and put on a defender against 10 men this time,its so hard to get any hope for this regime
    sky commentator said wednesday doing their normal pass and move and villa doing there normal just giving it away

  133. IanG

    ‘Sadly we win”?
    I thought that winning was the point.
    Sometimes it’s pretty sometimes it’s not.
    Wigan away next weekend then a fortnight to train.
    The problem with all these injuries is that you can’t do so much on the training ground as half the team are missing

  134. Paul Pears

    Well, a good solid performance from our makeshift team, am so glad Bruce actually got it right.

    Roll on for Wigan now, and hopefully another 3 points…

    and an England team had a small win against Scotland, a mere 61-21, which brought us the Calcutta Cup, another six nations, and now we just have to smash Ireland to win the grand slam….!!!

    Maybe Villa are just coming good too… Still can make 75 points…..!!!!

    Carry on Kodjia….!!!

  135. OldVilla

    So another win greeted with disdain from some quarters. Maybe its a good job that we on this website stick to our jobs and Bruce sticks to his.
    But yes I know, we were lucky, played terribly, only won because they had 10 men, Hutton – no words he is so bad and every goal against us comes from from his side of the pitch … oh wait a minute, they didnt score so that must mean the 4th clean sheet in 5 games; Bruce making rubbish substitutions like bringing Hutton on and not Elphick or Richards so we are bound to lose …… oh hang on we won ……………………………..
    I am happy, I can see movement in the right direction – and no, that doesnt mean I want Bruce to have my babies or think we are playing the best football ever – it means that I can actually see some progress IN RESULTS following the last 6 years of total and complete mismanagement.
    So tonight I will smile and wait for the next game with slightly less apprehension than I have been.
    oldvilla

  137. IanG

    OldVilla
    Amazed how depressed some people get when we win.
    Saw the 2nd half, there’s a lot of scope upwards for the rugby team.
    I agree MK, it would be nice to have a manager like Jones, but hey ho we won

  138. John Clark

    Strange game, indeed, and I’d have thought Bruce was getting it completely wrong moving Jedi to CH. And it didn’t turn out that way at all. So, fair play to him and the lads. They keep dropping like flies yet find a way to win.

    Wasn’t a pretty game at all by the sounds of it, but given everything we’re dealing with, color me rather happy with that one.

  139. Heroes-and-Villans

    Old villa….get yourself down to villa park and dont listen to mark;)

    Thanfully the majority of fans can see whats happening, sadly some dont have the patience. 4 wins out of 5 and 4 clean sheets says it all.

    First one was a nice little short corner, back to hourihan, lovely ball in. Second goal class.

    Albert does not seem to get any mention, but he is fantastic. I mean very very good. 9 assists, quick, works like a man possessed. Great stuff.

    Was mentioned a while back about character. Have this team got it. Well today massively ticked that box for me. Lansbury out before match, baker off after 20, change of formation. All against a decent wed side who are 6th.

    And we also have 10 first teamers injured. Best result of bruces reign today. Delighted like most of vp were 🙂

  140. Paul Pears

    JC,

    The team did well, considering the loss of Baker and Lansbury, and the move to 4-4-2 worked well.

    Bree is starting to look good and putting in some good crosses. Hutton put in another good shift and could have scored. The more he goes forward the better he becomes. Making a very good utility player.

  142. OldVilla

    Andrew – “Old villa….get yourself down to villa park and dont listen to mark;)” Its a long old trek from Switzerland mate, but wish I could get there. This is the first time in over 50 years that I havent been going down to VP …………… so give them a bit of a shout from me eh? 🙂
    oldvilla

  143. Heroes-and-Villans

    Ah, fair enough oldvillan, switzerland not a bad place to be stuck at! Will shout double hard for you!

    Yes just read comments during the game above….good job bruce the manager…jedi cb was inspired. Rhodes did not have a kick!

    Another shout to johnson too….young lad finding his feet now. 4 clean sheets in 5 and making saves would you believe! Also to taylor who has hit the ground running. Just wait till hogan finds his feet:)

    Next season hogan, kodjer, lansbury, hourihan, chester, bree, adomah are going to be superb for us. Watch this space!

  145. r0bb0

    I’m not quite there yet, but I’m hoping I have to apologise for my previous comments about Johnson sometime.
    I thought he might have done better for the goal we conceded against Huddersfield, but he didn’t do anything wrong yesterday. He’s started catching the ball instead of always punching and seemed more confident.
    A few more games like that please.

  146. Heroes-and-Villans

    Robbo

    The trouble is we all want these players to gel, play well and hit the ground running. Been watching football long enough to know that just does not happen as the norm.

    Johnson may well prove to be not good, or good or this may be his only season with us but lets give him time to prove himself or not!

  147. John Lerwill

    Just how do they do it?

    No – not Villa – I mean the England rugger team! 😉

    I watched the last 5 or 10 minutes of England battering the last line of resistence of Scotland and finally breaking through to top 60 points. Those players must be made out of iron – roboticised! They can’t be human!

    It’s hard – very hard – now to imagine how both rugger and soccer came from one root sport!

  148. John Lerwill

    Andrew: “Next season hogan, kodjer, lansbury, hourihan, chester, bree, adomah are going to be superb for us. Watch this space!”

    Couldn’t agree more! And also Green. And will the Jedi go another season in the same form?

  149. Heroes-and-Villans

    I see adama was up to his usual self yesterday… No end product.

    Remember when some thought he would be better than adomah for us 🙂

    Fingerscrossed lansbury ok.

    International break coming up just in time.

  150. John Lerwill

    JC: “Strange game, indeed,”

    There’s an old adage that you make your own luck, and so maybe this was just an indicator that things are finally turning in Villa’s direction.

    A few games ago, Mark listed the games left and asked how many we would win out of that. He thought 4 wins. I think we’ve achieved 2 or 3 already since that time – and there’s still 9 games left!

    Wish Hourihane would get his shooting sights sorted, though – he’d be close to Codger’s total by now if he’d been on target!

    Codger – btw – has now scored 15 in 29. Better than one every 2 matches.

  151. Heroes-and-Villans

    John

    Its going to take time but over the last month, character, fight has been installed.

    Came away from vp yesterday delighted but still a long way to go. We must be better on the ball and control the game better.

    Was happy to hear bruce comments saying that.

  152. Mark King

    morning all you perfect people out there 🙂
    Why is it that some people just want to moan about the opinions of others on here and seem to come on just to do that? its the first thing that is said, no appraisal of the game or Bruces attributes just straight into what idiots we must be for not enjoying the win, by the way I very much do enjoy the win but if anyone can tell me that the 1 1/2 hours I spent listening to paint dry yesterday is enjoyable you need to give your head a shake, you moan when people don’t post then moan at them when they do lol 🙂

  153. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    That’s not fair i.m.o. I think that quite a few here just simply want to see a fair crack of the whip given to the manager, stemming particularly after nearly 7 years of chaos that has existed at VP.

    Though a lot of us say that Garde seemed to convey the impression of being the manager we wanted, he was working in an impossible management structure that didn’t have much sense of reality. Now we have what I believe is a good structure and a reasonable manager (not the best) and after all these years of the club being in such a mess, the fair-minded amongst us would like to give the manager and the organisation that fair crack of the whip.

    It’s only in the past few weeks you can say that Bruce has been managing his own players, and seem able to win despite the injury list.

  155. John Lerwill

    More from Bruce:

    I still think we need to be better with the ball. We played better at Huddersfield without a shadow of a doubt. We were nowhere near the level we were against Huddersfield in the first-half today. What we have got is a spirit amongst them which is coming, which takes time, and that’s vitally important.

  156. Trinity

    Mark
    Nevermind. They’re reading your posts, which must be effecting responses. Isn’t that good?
    Wonder if Gabby will be back after the Wigan match and break. The physios at BMH must know his hamstrings very well by now, be glad to see the last of them I’d say. I’d rather blood young players now. They are the future, and that’s what Villa is working towards. Micah Richards, I don’t know about him, either. Brucy says he’s a great character to have around.

  157. Mark King

    JL- Its very fair mate when its aimed at you.

    I am not preventing Bruce from doing whatever he likes its just my opinion we could of got in better and still been in the play off hunt, he inherited some talented players and bought even more in. I am prepared to be completely wrong about Steve Bruce thats not a problem.

  158. OldVilla

    Mark K – “Why is it that some people just want to moan about the opinions of others on here and seem to come on just to do that? its the first thing that is said, no appraisal of the game or Bruces attributes just straight into what idiots we must be for not enjoying the win, by the way I very much do enjoy the win but if anyone can tell me that the 1 1/2 hours I spent listening to paint dry yesterday is enjoyable you need to give your head a shake, you moan when people don’t post then moan at them when they do lol ”

    I hope that wasn’t aimed at me because if so, you are completely misreading things. Again.
    Oh and have you heard of ‘tongue in cheek’ comments?!
    I did not moan about the opinions of others but I can disagree with opinions if I want to surely? I also did not say that anyone not enjoying the win is an idiot.
    I also stated why I am happy about things at the moment – but being happy does not mean that I think everything is 100% correct in the way of our manager, the way we play or individual players. What I am happy about is the progress that is being made in the way OF RESULTS. And every Villa fan must be happy or happier with the results or else why bother supporting any team, as none will match the exact requirements …….. unless you are Bayern Munich, Barca, et al

    And please do not read into this message things which haven’t said!!!!
    Cheers, oldvilla

  160. Mark King

    fair play the changes worked but he seems surprised 🙂

    “Lansbury has hurt his Achilles in the warm-up, and that disrupted us totally but we’ve overcome it. I felt we needed more up front to give us something we can hit. I’ve always wanted to see Mile Jedinak playing up there. It was good, a change of formation that worked. We’d be in serious trouble without Jonathan’s goals, we’ve created wonderful chances to kill the game off and missed them.”

  161. Mark King

    Old Villa- “So another win greeted with disdain from some quarters.”

    yes very tongue in cheek mate, did you not notice the big old smiley’s in mine?

  163. IanG

    MK
    Perfect people? It takes one to know one.
    Cheer up son, it might never happen.
    In more ways than one.
    You sound like you had a good night.

  165. John Lerwill

    Mark: “its just my opinion we could of got in [a better manager]”

    That’s a maybe, Mark. And since we haven’t I suggest we may as well just see how things develop, which is what I’ve been saying for weeks … and the way things are going at the moment (results *and* attitude wise) there’s even more reason for hope … and even to enjoy. Though you don’t seem to agree.

    There’s still even a possibility we could make the play-offs having beaten Wednesday … though I’d not hold my breath! 😉 As I think you and others once said, a promotion this season (if it took place) might be a tad too soon.

  167. Trinity

    JL
    Carlos suffered a long with the rest of Villa last year. On his day, he was a beast in defence, but I remember him giving a lot of ball away. He could do that covering job Jedinak currently does. He’s appeared regularly in Italy, so must be doing well. I think in a better team, he’d do well for Villa.

  168. John Clark

    I always did like Sanchez…as Iana says, there was always just that one glaring mental error a game, usually giving it away by playing it too casually or not putting enough on the pass. Other than that he’s quick, strong, has a high work rate, and is good on the ball.

  169. James Gill

    john l
    is sanchez not on a loan to buy deal so he is not coming back plus lambert got between 1.5 and 2m for bannan villa didnt let him go for nothing

  170. John Lerwill

    James,

    Yes, I think you’re right about Sanchez.

    On Bannan, I think Bruce was basically making the point that players like he and Albrighton (who he mentioned as well) had been let go. Though I think you’re right that it was not a ‘free’, the fact that Bannan had more skills than some of the subsequent signings says it all about the previous management.

    However, although I liked Bannan I didn’t think he had enough for the top flight, but at this level he wwould have been good i.m.o. – as his career with Wednesday has shown.

    Albri though was a shock departure for me. He’s still doing well for Leicester and – what’s more – he got himself a medal not long after going there. He deserved it. At least there’s been no bad vibes from him about Villa.

  175. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    I think your right re playoffs. Allthough we were bottom 3 when bruce was put in charge he got us close to the playoffs then changed things round!! He did admit the mistake but has cost us.

    Apparntly lansbury ok.

    First stage is done for me. The team are geling nicely, character and fight in place. Next stage needs to be completed before end of season….playing good controlled football for 90 mins and putting more chances away.

    Getting hogan fit and on fire too.

  176. Heroes-and-Villans

    John

    Thanks for the article very intersting. When i went rotherham game i thought as much…you can see the players putting it in more. Basic really but shows where we are coming from!!

    Talk too of rdms reign. Said it before but he was very lax and aloof. Wouldnt say boo to a goose. Ross would do as he pleases.

    Cant belive the fat idiot has been so bad. Says alot that he cant get into forest team.

  177. Heroes-and-Villans

    The whole stats thing does make me happy, its like we are becoming a club again. We literally had nothing the past 4 years. We are literally building the club from scratch.

    Loved hearing wyness talk about transfer plans. Was on about how they look at balance of left footers and right footers, age, experience the whole lot. Again basic but something we have not had.

  178. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    Bruce is what he is. Theres nothing hidden or secret about him. He will eventually build a hard working decent side capable of going up.

    Great man manager, if we did go up id let him guide us to mid table safety for a season then get rid.

    And then go on to conqour europe under pep 🙂

    Next up wigan away though ):

  179. IanG

    I need a bit of pep
    MK I think barring inforseeable circumstances I’d agree with that, & I think thats what the board are thinking.
    If he screws up again we can always get rid of him anyway

  182. John Lerwill

    Gents,

    The thing I have difficulty in agreeing with Mark on is the issue of whether Bruce has “screwed up”.

    I don’t really think he has – yes, he’s made some errors of judgment, but that is par for the course for anyone, no matter how experienced.

    The article (above) on how Bruce says he found things coming into the club means (if they’re right, and why should I doubt them) then he felt he had to do things … that the 7 game unbeaten run did not really solve anything in his eyes as there were underlying problems.

    Perhaps now – in the attitude, play and results now being achieved – we’re beginning to see what he meant in those comments of his.

    In other words, no “screw up” but what to us may have seemed a ham-fisted way of getting things changed to be fit for purpose.

  183. Mark King

    I have read the Bruce article and quite honestly it just sounds like a load of flannel,Bruce knows how to say a lot while actually saying nothing much , the stats prove more physicallity? What does that even mean? How come we were able to take leads under RDM? Create chances etc? And he was useless

  184. James Gill

    john l
    all well saying these things bruce is master off spin, YET BRUCE PLAYED GABBY FOR 12/3 MATCHES THE BIGGEST WASTER IN VILLA HISTORY AND PRAISED GABBY TO ALL AND SUNDRY

  185. James Gill

    fitness shouldnt stop players from doing basics passing ball to team mate,months of december and january when we were on sky regularly , we were awful, cant blame rdm for that

  186. Mark King

    Jl- so Bruce decided to stop winning? Why has he gone back to 433 ? Because we won games like that. You cannot believe Bruce would not have preferred to keep winning and make the play offs but instead messed it up in an attempt to correct our problems? Bearing in mind he changed the team drastically and went on an abysmal run of results with them until he went back to what won us games before

  187. John Lerwill

    James,

    I think if we thought back we’d remember that Villa had people away on the Africa Nations Cup and Bruce felt as though he had to use Gabby in that situation. The fact is that – no matter what opinion we have about him and what happened before this season – he was doing OK in terms of effort.

    In short he filled a short-term gap in resources.

  188. James Gill

    bruce had nearly 3 months when we played spurs yet one of most embarrassing shows in town,even yesterday we finnished with 6 defenders and only 1 attacker against 10 men

  190. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Sorry I think you’re putting a slant on things which is a bit awry to say the least! 😉

    How would a manager decide “to stop winning”?! That’s not how I read it at all. It simply was the fact as I understand it that the run came to an end but that (in any case) there were underlying issues that he knew he had to attend to. Mainly by getting in a new gang of builders that could work a full shift to build a proper brick wall! 😉

  193. John Lerwill

    Mark: “Bearing in mind he changed the team drastically and went on an abysmal run of results with them until he went back to what won us games before”

    He changed the team because the team had to be changed! And now that run is behind us, what’s the beef?! 🙂

  194. OldVilla

    James and Mark – I just find your comments unbelievable. Sorry but there it is.
    It doesnt matter what facts are put in front of you, you will never believe them. And keep on talking Gabby this and RDM that – it’s irrelevant now. We are where we are and are moving forward in a way that is effective if not attractive.

    Please just smile once once chaps or else I’ll send you some of my depression pills lol – they are Sertraline by the way.
    Cheers, oldvilla

  195. James Gill

    what i find unbelievable is way some people dress spud up instead of saying we lost 9 out of 16,its we won 4 out of 5,mclaren has done better over same amount of matches without spending 30m in january yet he gets sack

  196. Mark King

    Jl- the beef is he prefers 442 brought in 7 players and proceeded to try every formation under the sun to make it work and could not, that is a pretty bad fail. He then announced he was going back to how we won before, truth is he could not make things work without jedinak and kodjia creating his own chances. The best thing to come from his buys for me bearing in mind we havent seen them win a game on TV is hourihanes deliverys, without jedinak they couldn’t defend for toffee.

    He determined gabby would replace kodjia, a massive gamble on a busted flush goal scoring wise and I quite imagine RMC for all his faults thought well I’m behind gabby at a time when we needed goals?

  198. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    Watch the villa live not on tele.

    You will see the great effect taylor has has at lb. if you watched it on tv or highlights you would see us getting mullered down amavis side all the time. Thats stopped with taylor in. Understand taylor not eye catching name and never gets mentioned but dont underestimate his effect on our recent clean sheets. Plugged a massive hole.

    Lansbury in the middle has been terrific too.

  199. Heroes-and-Villans

    And horihan is alot more than delieveries. A class act in the middle who will score goals for us. Lovelly player.

    Talking of class acts barry is making some noises of saying never say never on a return to villa.

    Massive bruce fan he says 🙂

  200. IanG

    JG/Mark
    I’m beginning to think you 2 wind each other up.
    I think Andrew has a point here about not seeing the whole picture on the tv, as otherwise all I see is someone looking for something to justify a prejudice.
    Not that I’ve got anything against a good prejudice, but without some humour it’s a bit deadly.
    Then it’s like the left hand arguing with the right hand for the right to… well you know.
    I’m not even saying you are completely wrong either just wound a bit to the extreme side.
    I just hope it all keeps improving, & as you say the fun may very well start when we have all the players fit & we see Bruce’s limitations or it gets better [heaven forbid].
    I just hope it gets better because it’s the villa, but we can never bank on it

  202. Heroes-and-Villans

    Iang
    Said before worried/interested what formation, players will be picked when everyone fit.

    Looking into his time at wigan, hull etc he is flexible and seems to play best formation for team. Goes with that instead of insisting this is how i want to play. Which i prefer tbh.

    Got hull up playing, 352, 442 then 4231.

  203. Heroes-and-Villans

    Iang

    Its just watching it live you see more of the whole pic. Runs off the ball etc.

    Just think its a bit harsh on others to say its just jedi helping with the clean sheets.

    This is the same jedi who played under rdm and we would collapse and concede all the time. He was more isolated under rdm and looked lost at times.

    He is such a better players alongside conor and lansbuey.

    Next to westy he was doing the work of 2 men!

    Also chester. Never gets mentioned but such a good classy defender. Had a blip in form, fair enough but back to his very best recent games.

  204. r0bb0

    We we’re all surprised when Hutton was brought on instead of Elphick but it turned out to be an excellent move. Using Jedinack in central defence could also extend his career by a couple of seasons which would also be useful.
    I would have preferred the later changes to be more ambitious but if we’d then conceded a goal we’d not be thinking that.
    We had a bit of luck not being given a penalty but if you addd up the ‘clear’ scoring opportunities the final result should probably have been 4.1 so all in all (bearing in mind our injury list) it was a good day at the office.
    We’ve had a few of those lately so let’s hope for a few more during this 2018 season pre-season preparation period!

  205. r0bb0

    Encouraging words from abruce about not letting good academy players go but we’ll need to see those words backed up with actions. For sure we’re seeing some of them getting a run out now but will that continue when it’s not being forced on us.
    Let’s use this pre-season well. Learn which ones may be good enough, build an understanding/playing style that the whole squad understands and buys into, and most of all use this time to win games and start to rebuild a winning mentality throughout he club.
    Ps. That includes the fans who were pretty poor on Saturday until we scored

  206. John Lerwill

    r0bb0: “Let’s use this pre-season well. Learn which ones may be good enough, build an understanding/playing style that the whole squad understands and buys into, and most of all use this time to win games and start to rebuild a winning mentality throughout he club.”

    I absolutely go with that statement, and the signs are that we are moving in that direction now we have some real footballers on board.

    Talking of which I’ve been especially looking at Ayew at Swansea, who seems to be going through the motions as he did with us. There’s the sign of ability, but just not transitioning into anything that wins matches. I think that Bruce has had to take some brave steps in changing around the squad, but so far they seem totally justified – to me at least.

  207. Mark King

    IanG- trust me mate Bruce is enough to wind me up 😉

    Andrew- I agree there is nothing like watching the game live at the ground or the tv although the spirit of the moment can get in the way of being objective, I don’t sit at home singing and swearing at the radio, well not much 😉

    Yep Taylor from the one game I have seen recently looks steady but You cannot ignore that Jedinak has been present in every win but one and that was under RDM. I think he has only played in 3 defeats under Bruce and two under RDM and was carrying a groin strain into December when those occurred. Under RDM he was jetting everywhere and not in top form and arrived 5 games in to the season and playing in a mid 2.

    There is one thing that gets up my nose and thats a lot of leeway is being afforded to Bruce on the Gelling front when I think RDM had it much worse with the takeover and time-scale and he did not slump to consecutive losses, still suffered from the same malaise in front of goal though and Kodjia was hitting the target but not scoring for him, again arrived after 5 games gone. How can anyone not look at the situation and see that 3 players that have been winning games for Bruce barely played for RDM and certainly not on top form? Adomah, Jedinak and Kodjia are still our stand-outs.

    The only response I have had to the above facts is “what are you going on about that still” or “Bruce has barely begun” or ” inherited a poor squad” none of that bares up under scrutiny to me if we are factoring in the magical gelling/building a team factor.

    Bruce came in a steadied the ship in quite fortuitous fashion(which he admits), turned an attacking side into a defensive orientated one and dealt with the striker crisis by reintroducing gabby and falling out with RMC and RHM for good or bad and selling the rest. This was at a point when the play offs were a possibility I reasonably assume his true remit when brought in.

    So regardless of whats happening now you will have excuse me for feeling more than a little baffled by acceptance of a switch to rebuilding mid-season with everything to play for and doing it with a manager that has one claim to fame promotions.

    None of the above has been written while feeling unhappy, angry etc although some on the responses might well change that 😉

  208. Mark King

    JL- Do you not think that with the games played up to Xmas a lot of those problems would of been sorted out anyway? its all very well saying get rid of Ayew but without playing him in the championship how did RDM know how it would go? under Garde at times he was the stand-out scoring dome great goals. You have to ask yourself would Bruce have sold him in the summer? he was one of our best players and Xia was adamant he would stay, almost a statement of intent for him.

    Also Round was put in place after RDM as was the scouting network, I would bet my house that we would of been in for the likes of Lansbury, Bree, Hourihane as some of the leagues top performers anyway as the squad was assessed in real matches and Westwood and others frailties exposed whomever was in the managers chair. Someone else may have got more from some players like Ayew and RMC too by playing to there strengths not exposing there weaknesses. Bruce may have made all the right decisions for what he wants but it may not have been the right decisions for what we had,

  209. DarrenO

    There appears to be an element of happy clapping appearing on AVL, what’s happened to allowing the status quo to be challenged.

    Yes things have been shite for 6 years and isn’t it great to get a few wins but should we accept given the amount of money spent on players and in turn on the manager to get the players he wants that we should be entitled to provide an opinion that is contrary to happy clapping.

    I’m firmly in the camp that feels the football is still poor, that there is a lot of work to do but the quality of player we have in the championship should see us right next season, I’ve my doubts about the seasons after that but that’s for another day. Where my current doubts exist are directly pointed to the manager. I’m not convinced by his actions this season that a Villa team looking to progress to the Premier league are being adequately equipped for that promotion.

    If my opinion on the football being poor has any standing then stability doesn’t fix that, it’s the qualities of the manager and coaching that fixes it. Look at Arsenal 20 years of stability yet the standards have only been maintained not improved because the manager hasn’t learnt new ways to train, new tactics but has it disposal some very high quality players. The same analogy could be applied to Bruce, we won’t improve under Bruce beyond the stability of players getting used to each other. If we want to progress we need better coaches than Calderwood and we need a manager who studies tactics and sports science, this isn’t about current trends on gegen pressing, it’s about having knowledge of the game and principles, not saying Bruce doesn’t have either but at what level when compared with Wagner for example and I’m only naming him because he is in this league, there are many others.

    Is it wrong to think about what ifs in terms of Garde being retained and given proper backing and being able to build his own team under Dr.T or Wagner saying yes and given the resources to develop his footballing ideas alongside the financial clout to get better players into his system.

    Villa is a lot better off now than the last six years but from it’s nadir, the money in the premier league has influenced the decision making process that has required Villa to forego playing good football to playing 3 point football and the same will happen next season, it will be good football that would give us the best chance of not yo-yo-ing our between the divisions because you can be guaranteed that Dr.T will pull the trigger on Bruce either next season or the season after and we start the same circle of instability again.

  210. IanG

    MK
    Bruce can wind any of us up mate but I just ignore the NE gentleman when he opens his mouth even if sometimes he’s right, as you can’t make silk out of a sow’s ear as they say.
    My take on this is that RDM became a bit one dimensional when his plan didn’t work, & he ended up with that desperate face that Lambert had towards the end.
    The bottom line is that it didn’t work & was starting to unravel.
    It’s rarely fair to the manager in that position, & the decision was made by the doc & co so that’s what we live with.
    It was never either or with RDM & Bruce.
    The progression is where we’re now at, & I for one support the team.
    I only support Bruce’s efforts [when they work] mostly, because it would be easy to screw up the players & the team, & we all remember how toxic it can get at VP & on the blogs, therefore my need for humour.
    I would shed no tears if he was replaced, but it’s probably not in our interest at this point in time, but things can always change.
    I just don’t see the point in perpetual sniping as it tends to be counterproductive.
    Having said that [serious for me] I’m going to have a cup of tea & enjoy the sun, & watch things grow for a bit.

  211. Heroes-and-Villans

    Yep Mark & Darren well written and said.

    Im also in the camp of the football needs to be better, and that what I want to see in the next stage of season.

    Reading bruces comments he says that too so lets see.

    Mark

    Heard lots of little things on rdm, reading between the lines to me as soon as round came in and the general way rdm was behind the scenes they were looking to get rid of him asap. Did not see him as the type of man to re build with.

  212. Mark King

    IanG- I only bring up RDM as he was not given the time Bruce is, you say he was busted flush? well what if he had gone into the next phase of games against the lower teams and won as Bruce did? what if he’d played 3 in the middle? he had begun to explore options just as bruce has done. We always played better against footballing sides under him too so Fulham and reading would of been fair game, we lacked against teams that got stuck in because IMO the refing was a culture shock in this division to our players and some players had just not hit form through injuries and late arrival. Given all of his late signings began to perform under Bruce regardless of his tactics I’m willing to bet we would of improved. What really killed it was the crowd booing and the expectation level, if that had remained the same bruce would of been sacked, Xia went from supporting the manager to he is weak in a blink of an eye. Not saying it wasn’t true just looking at what appeared to happen

    To the end he thought it would turn but is that not just like Bruce and his it will take time? You call it sniping I call it looking at the situation with all the cards on the table not just the ones that have recently been dealt.

    I feel for him because he had little choice over keeping a fair few of the failed squad, The only other option RDM had was to buy 15+ players and in the time scale that was not going to happen and could of ended up a bigger mess.

  213. Mark King

    Andrew- That may well have been the case but Bruce is the man to rebuild then? not for me, I think he was the instant promotion option that failed (unless we win every one of our games and others don’t) I think its a face saving exercise at best as I don’t think Xia really wanted to sack RDM going on his constant calls fro support.

  215. IanG

    DOR
    RE: happy clapping [hate that phrase]
    I don’t see much evidence of this, just a wish not to go down the toxic route.
    Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, but what they do with it can be another matter, therefore the reaction to any tendency to toxic, depressive, never ending repeats of some opinions with no real connection to the matches.
    If you call this ‘happy clapping’ it is possibly just you having a moment [unlike MK I can’t find smiley faces on my computer].
    There is not so much disagreement mostly on this site except the matter of degree, so we can tend then to see an apparent need out of frustration to create conflict, where there is very little in actuality.
    As Andrew says the view of what is going on when you can see the whole game is different from on the TV or radio, where you miss the runs & other work which is integral to the whole picture.
    The camera focus & commentaries are often more focused on more the extremes, & half the time stokes controversy unfairly & presses people’s buttons.
    I have also in the past been guilty of this at VP when I was younger when things were not going how I thought they should, which actually did not help at all but made me feel justified.
    It’s one thing to have an opinion but another to use it as a weapon to stifle open discussion.
    This is why I dislike the phrase ‘happy clappers’ as it is mostly abused & abusive with no humour what so ever, especially when repeated ad nauseum as on some sites.
    Steamer was one who springs to my mind that did not do this, where he had strong opinions but just said what he believed, but defended the right of others to disagree.
    ‘Happy clapping’ was more about mindless stuff not reasoned intelligent opinion, which is often just the other side of the same coin of support for AV in an attempt to broaden a community discussion.

    If you want to challenge the so called status quo of the club, I doubt if there is any objection here, especially if the circumstances require it, but many would quickly lose interest if it was mostly a repetitious mantra of abuse, as happens on other sites, especially when all at VP is going down the toilet.
    I think the key word is intelligent, which is what attracted me to this community in the first place.
    We’re all waiting for the next tipping point to see what the direction is, & I for one am happy to see any actual positives to go with the negatives we are all familiar with, as I don’t see the point in cutting off my nose to spite my face, although it does happen on occasions as I also have my moments.

    I totally agree about what you say concerning ‘3 point football’, & it’s frustrating, but a fact for now until circumstances require change from the club which is not right now, but we can at least see the evolution of individuals [when they are fit], & the potential of the team.

    Again concerning coaching etc, it is a valid point but I also take into consideration that they might also be aware of this & have plans in process to change this that they may or may not be putting into action as we speak, because they can also see what we see.
    I don’t think there are many of us who wished for Bruce & co, & many including myself have stated a wish that we still had Garde, & to keep reiterating this without humour,instead of intelligent comment concerning what we see in real time [many varied windows here] of the actual football, is boring to me, & I have that opinion that surfaces occasionally.

    But DOR I am always happy to see your posts as they are rarely boring.

  216. Trinity

    Of course it’s about saving face, but at least Dr. X is far more of a realist than Lerner ever was.
    Brucey can do a job for now. Hopefully he is sucessful in getting the best out of this squad, and a few good players have recently signed. However, I agree a modern manager and better coaches will be needed later.
    It’s important to have an alternative view to the status quo. It’s like a parliamentary opposition keeping the government honest.

  217. Heroes-and-Villans

    rdm was by all accounts aloof with everyone behind the scenes at vp. and very soft on the players.

    Bruce is someone who knows all the names of the staff at the canteen and chats to everyone…that sort of thing. And gives a bollocking out to the players.

  218. Heroes-and-Villans

    The happy clappy thing is a nonsense. I like to think I am fair and and say what I see. Nothing wrong with likeing whats happening or being positive.

    Its like the adomah ball for kodjers 2nd…..best ball of the season, hardly mentioned in the posts! Taylor signed and greeted with much disdain but has been great. Watching him he is constantly talking and telling the guy in front what to do settled in so well. great stuff. never mentioned.

    Chester at the back….class act. great leader and should be in the prem. hardly talked about.

    The debates on here when we are awful over chrimbo…all fair enough but some just wanted a bit of time lets see what the new players can do when settled in in time. Present day we are top of the form guide 12 points out of 15 and 1 goal conceded.

    Like I say try and be fair.

  219. IanG

    MK
    I also saw what you say, & it is sad that RDM didn’t get the circumstances for his style of football to be successful, even if it was more pleasing than what has come afterwards, but the circumstances were as they were, which led to the doc having his decision.
    Yes the expectations were a hold over from losing our status, & the toxicity then a continuity from the culture going back to Lerner’s time.
    By the way I have never had the opinion that you habitually sniped, so that is a misunderstanding, [unless the cap fits of course ha ha], although we can all have our moments of course.
    I’ve never had a card game yet where you kept the last deck you were playing with along with the new one when you played, the experience from the last game goes into the next but not the last pack itself in that way mate.
    I think we all felt a little sorry for RDM as he was not toxic & got dealt something that turned into a bummer as you say.
    I doubt very much if anyone will say the same about Bruce when his time is up.

  220. IanG

    lana
    The analogy of parliament opposition is stretching a bit I think, as they all spout what suits them & there has never been real honesty in Politics.
    The actual word politics is an adverb that has to be qualified [not a noun], ie: the politics of being a villa supporter.
    The word Politics with a capitol P is has no linkage with the actual language & it’s roots except as the title of a con job, which is what this model of divide & rule is, so we believe it at our peril.
    It would be hard for something that is not honest to keep something else honest, where the whole raison d’etre is a lie using truth as a camouflage to con the population into allowing their own downfall.
    I don’t think you can accuse the doc & co of quite that [yet].

  221. IanG

    Andrew
    Yes I watched the clip over & over last night courtesy of a ghana football site, it was a gorgeous pass, & why no one has mentioned it in the media is beyond me.

  223. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    All I know is that a lot is still being said on here about *the past* when (for me at least) all I see are green shoots appearing that will sort out the future.

    The past is the past – let it be, especially when we look at the past through our own spectacles and don’t take into account the sort of issues that Bruce has lately been speaking of and which you seem to throw on one side.

    Looking at the past – especially when progress is being made – is meaningless i.m.o.

  224. IanG

    MK
    I think it was JC who said that he saw the doc keeping Bruce until the villa were established mid table after the first season back in the premiership, & then replacing him with a more upwardly mobile manager.
    Unless the unexpected happens & the sh*t hits the fan.
    That appears to be their plan.
    Or as Archie said, give him up to christmas & if then it’s not going so well replace him to go for promotion.
    Personally I see it as being up in the air as yet, so am not getting my knickers in a twist.

  225. Heroes-and-Villans

    Ian G

    Adomah does not get talked about much which is a real shame. Bags of pace, skill. And has the work rate to match. always tracking back. His assists is up there as the most in this league too! Only thing I can aim at him is should be scoring more.

    But the type of player I love watching. when he gets the ball things can happen. Great partnership with kodgia.

    And he is another who we hardly talk about….the guys awesome! Have we ever talked so little about our main striker!?

    When Hogan gets back I am very interested to see what bruce does with him and kodjia.
    Bruce needs to get those 2 playing in the same side and scoring and linking well.

    Me id play safe at the mo and put Hogan on the bench and sub kodger for him. Not a long term fix though.

  226. Trinity

    IanG
    Who brought up the word politics? You did. And who’s accusing the “doc & co” of… allowing their own downfall? What’s that got to do with the price of fish?

  227. Mark King

    IanG- I think the danger is labelling people, if we go down the route of stifling free speech because it makes you uncomfortable or feel depressed I suggest that is more down to the reader. You can read what I post as depressing or factual or an opinion, its still the same words mate 😉

    I do not think anyone attacks the so called positive point of view other than to question it much on here at all, I don’t think you can say the same about the perceived negative view. As I have seen many times on here when you seek to oppress someone’s point of view or wish they could day it more to your liking, or with more humour etc it only ends one way nobody posts, on top of that rarely does a post of “Isn’t everything wonderful” open up debate and that is what I enjoy. Under Garde I was the happy clapper funny eh 🙂

  228. Heroes-and-Villans

    id bet any money on that being the case with bruce. let him build a side to get out the champ and settle mid table in the prem then axe him.

    Its the plan no doubt.

    Keith wyness has said already we want to build 3 teams. 1 to get out the champ. 2 to stay in the prem and 3 to challenge top 6.

    Bruce will defo be axed at number 3 prob number 2

  229. John Lerwill

    Andrew: “Its the plan no doubt [to axe when the time comes]”

    Why on earth should that be “the plan”?

    Management doesn’t tend to work like that, especially good management. They wait to see what develops and if it doesn’t work out *then* they take action (in good time).

    What JC said (and also what I said some time before! – as well as others) about Bruce surviving until he can’t get any further is true as a *notion* … but not as “a plan”. It’s what I suspect will happen as a result of events, but I am quite ready to be surprised by a different outcome.

  231. Mark King

    I think the real difference of opinion is that Bruce will leave us in a good enough to survive the prem if we go up, which I think is turning into a very different beast, he bailed out of Hull because he felt he would not get enough funds, his replacement had no such problem, Why? a very different type of manager is emerging IMO. So the time for change is now not after we are having to stop the ship and change direction yet again. It would be a whole lot easier if Bruce had it in his locker, I just don’t see it on past performance and recent.

  234. IanG

    MK
    It must be my sense of humour then.
    I agree with JL that the present is what is important as the past is gone.
    If that means it’s my fault for people not posting, then so be it, although the same could be said of anybody.
    I’m not quite sure what you mean about stifling free speech, cos I haven’t seen anyone do that here yet, but I have seen people be upset about their comfort zone disappearing when postings are challenged .
    That is also free speech.
    So I think it is as short as it is long, & if anyone in that position wants to blame someone else for their not posting, well that sort of goes back round in a big circle.
    Personally I consider our exchanges to be human, with humour mostly & not at all in that vein.
    If I’ve apparently upset anyone that was not the intention, just my opinion, as is this.
    None of us are immune to being pulled over our postings on here, but I don’t see much untoward or any personal attacks, only about comments, but as you say that is free speech, & if anyone is upset with me they can private message me & unburden with no rules to what they say.

  238. John Clark

    Will be putting up some new post-match thoughts later today…

    In the meantime, excellent set of comments once again that illustrates what Villans are going through. The club and supporters have been traumatized over the last few years, and given the number of changes to players and managers, it’s only natural for one ‘era’ to be compared to another. That said, because the changes have been so dramatic, it can be difficult to draw any conclusions. Lambert was the only one here long enough to really have a tenure. And whatever his merits or lack thereof, we know that at the least he wasn’t getting the sort of investment as O’Neill and then RDM and Bruce.

    I only see polite ‘argument’ (rare enough indeed online these days), and I for one am glad folks don’t feel the need to stifle their thoughts. Assumptions always need testing.

  239. DarrenO

    Hi JL

    ‘Looking at the past – especially when progress is being made – is meaningless i.m.o.’

    I suppose my difficulty is recognising someone else’s perception of progress not just applying to you JL but to any member on here that sees on-field progress.

    Looking at things under Dr.T so not the dark and distant past but this season, the sacking of one manager during the season despite the calls to give Bruce all the time he needs but the same standard was never applied to RDM or Garde for that matter, tells me that Bruce is some sort of footballing demi-god and we are so luck to have him, he could have easily picked Barcelona over us

    A few wins after 1 draw and 8 losses including capitulation against Spurs in the cup smacks of clutching at straws to see something that isn’t there especially when you look at who those wins are against and how they were won. The amount of possession we concede is asking for trouble and if we don’t change from counter-attacking to actually being more clever with how we use the ball and retention of it, we’ll be found out by most of the prem teams upon promotion.

    As with Arsene, Bruce is too long in the tooth to change his ways so we may well see promotion under him but why pull the trigger if we get found out in the prem, why put the club thru another period of instability at the very moment we are trying to survive our return to the top table. There is nothing secure in being a manager these days but my long standing issue is we are a missed opportunity to produce a great footballing ethos that gets promotion, due to the amount of money involved in the game so off we go and chase the next 3 points.

  242. James Gill

    dor
    excellent post as usual,aside from just getting promotion most of our players are too close to 30 or will be by time we get there,all our old players bar gana have struggled to get game time in pl so we back bruce to get 4/5 in summer ,then next season maybe a dozen just to fit in pl. 25 players in short time surely we need to look at new managers on the block to build from this summer
    swansea up to saturday under clement had only conceded 1 goal from set plays compared to 1 a game, before amazing what decent coaching can do

  246. Heroes-and-Villans

    dor

    Again rdm was not the man to sort us out from scratch. under learner the whole of vp and bodmoore was poisonous, staff unhappy etc you know what happened last 5 years! Now rdm was given a chance and what I hear around the place he was not the man to build from scratch and create that family/good feeling around the place.
    Was a great article by henry winter saying the atmosphere/feeling has improved no end.

    Im certain they was waiting for the first excuse to get rid. appointed too soon in a hurry. can only imagine ross and gabbys attitidude under rdm.

  247. Heroes-and-Villans

    dor again 🙂

    Its not just a few wins that is giving hope for me. its that coinciding with the players improving and geling and improving that is leading too results.

    We are not missing out on anything. What I like under round is the stability it gives us like the saints. bruce gets sacked only a few people will leave.

    Our possession is usually in the 40’s which is high for us compared to previous years.

    It will only get better too id bet.

    said it before about the prem, its rubbish from 7th downwards.

    Think 10th place is currently on 33points with 10 games to go! whole bunch of crap teams battling to stay out the bottom 3.

    If the plan is what keith says…create a new team when up then im confiedent 12th is easily do able.

    Lot of myth about the prem changing and sexy new foreign managers…..don’t belive it for a bit. footballs always the same and always will be. just work your socks off and compete and you will be more than ok.

  248. IanG

    DOR
    I think it was a generally held view at the time that we were missing a chance to change the 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards pattern & to get ahead of the pack when we appointed Bruce.
    I feel we have a chance of going on a little run here & now to create some confidence & more of a footballing mentality in the team.
    Well events will tell.

  249. IanG

    Andrew
    Couldn’t agree more, hard work is how you bring the sexy plans into reality, & there isn’t any other way.
    I haven’t really been watching that much of the premiership as the football in the championship comes thick & fast.
    I didn’t think I would like the championship so much, but there is a lot less b*llsh*t.

  250. IanG

    It will be interesting to see what comes out of the new scouting setup, as it will fully up & running by the end of the season.

  251. John Lerwill

    Darren: “A few wins after 1 draw and 8 losses including capitulation against Spurs in the cup smacks of clutching at straws to see something that isn’t there especially when you look at who those wins are against and how they were won. The amount of possession we concede is asking for trouble and if we don’t change from counter-attacking to actually being more clever with how we use the ball and retention of it, we’ll be found out by most of the prem teams upon promotion.”

    I can see your issue, but at the same time I see it as being purely a transitional situation.

    The fact that we have only conceded 1 in 5 and scored 7 is some kind of progress.

    OK, it’s 3 points football as you say … but we have to start somewhere.

    And we have got a better squad of players now than we had in January, and can still win though we have around 11 on the injury list.

  252. IanG

    JG
    I think we have a mixture at the moment, with Bree, Amavi, Green, Houlihan & Hogan in that bracket.
    Lansbury should also be at his peak by the end of next season.
    Then of course there are the kids + Jack & gardner if they ever come good.
    The rest like codger, adomah etc will still be ok.
    The problem for the summer seems to be that we need a goalkeeper, another left sided central defender & another quality defensive midfielder to go with jedi, along with either another forward from the kids, or we buy one.
    I don’t see Gabby still being here [I hope], but he’s still got a contract until the end of next season I think.
    I also can’t see RMC coming back unless he drastically gets his act together, but you never know.
    Then there is Gill & the french midfielder, so who knows what their thinking is on that.

  254. Heroes-and-Villans

    iAN g

    Yeah Im the same, I like the championship!

    Watch tooo much footy the mrs says. The prem is all hype. top 7 are miles off everyone. The rest of the teams could be an extended championship league.

  255. Heroes-and-Villans

    dor

    I wouldn’t say this villa team is a counter attacking one at all.

    And possession is not the be all and end all either. Foxes won the league with 30odd possession each week!

    Hull with silva and dyche at burnely regularly concede possession all the time. especially silvs hull, all about the counter. hell even Chelsea are a classic counter team. All about working hard and knowing there jobs though.

  257. Heroes-and-Villans

    iang

    cover for jedi essential in the summer along with gk. two big purchases.

    Apparently only going to be 3 or 4 ins and outs. nothing like jan.

    Lots of chatter about barry returning. id be sooo happy!

  260. Mark King

    IanG- mate you may be right but I really don’t think we would beat many of them, we could not even muster enough bottle to have a go at spurs reserves.

    wasn’t directing my comment earlier at anyone in particular its just how I have seen it go down over the years, we have lost many supposed negative posters who just gave up and as I say I myself have always approached it the same but now find myself in the neggo Camp 🙂

    Here is Bruces managerial stats taken from both champs and Prem. Sunderland are the team he managed in the prem I think and rebuilt and wigan for one season, win percentage drops a lot and when you consider his win percentage with us is 45% at should be a ball in the prem 🙂

    Club From Until Hons Games per Honour W D L Total Win%
    Crystal Palace 2001 2001 0 n/a 11 2 5 18 61.11
    Aston Villa 2016 Now 0 n/a 9 4 7 20 45.00
    Hull City 2012 2016 1 201 82 44 75 201 40.80
    Sheffield United 1998 1999 0 n/a 22 15 18 55 40.00
    Huddersfield Town 1999 2000 0 n/a 25 16 25 66 37.88
    Wigan Athletic 2001 2001 0 n/a 3 2 3 8 37.50
    Birmingham City 2001 2007 2 130 100 70 100 270 37.04
    Wigan Athletic 2007 2009 0 n/a 23 17 28 68 33.82
    Sunderland 2009 2011 0 n/a 29 28 41 98 29.59

  262. IanG

    Mark
    Don’t do yourself down mate, you’re not negative.
    Compared to some sites you’re the model of positive vibes.
    I also nit pick, & I think it comes from having an English.
    Being an old brummie, my sense of humour is a bit straight faced, & my writing tends that way sometimes, along with the fact that I forget I’m talking to people I haven’t actually met, which tells you that you lot make me feel relaxed.
    We used to have a competition on who could come up with the most outrageous way of putting things, & unfortunately it slips out sometimes [eg runtings], & can easily be used as a trigger for other people to give themselves 40 lashes by accident.
    It is not meant seriously so please don’t go there.
    The old saying from when I was a kid in the ghetto was ‘show no fear’.
    I was destined to end up with a bull terrier.

  263. Mark King

    IanG- always makes me laugh how people misconstrue whats being conveyed and by the way half my family are Brummies including me and the other half country folk believe me I don’t get upset as such, if you met me you would soon find that out. I’m always getting told I have misread people on here, you’d think I was on and Oscar Wilde blog not the bloody Villa 😉

  264. Mark King

    IanG- talking of people that feel sorry for themselves 🙂

    Only match-winner Mo Diame seemed in the mood to enjoy the occasion without the need for caution and caveat.
    ‘This is definitely the best moment of my career. It was the most important goal of my life,’ said the Senegal midfielder, who curled home delightfully from 25 yards on 72 minutes.
    ‘I am proud of what we have done and achieved. It was a tough, long and difficult season. But we have done it and now we need to enjoy it.’ Bruce, though, could not even summon a smile when reminded that this was the fourth time he had taken a team into the Premier League.

    ‘Four promotions, yeah,’ he sighed. ‘I’m going to let other people judge me on that. If I look at it, I would like to think that every where I’ve been, when I’ve left, I’ve left them in a better state than when I took over.

    ‘We always dream of a big job but whether you are just classed as, “Oh he’s okay, he can get a team out of the Championship and scrap away in the Premier League”, that’s on my CV , isn’t it.’

    But Bruce deserves credit. He deserves to be in the Premier League. Whether that is with Hull remains to be seen.

  268. Canadian Villan

    Took the whole of my lunch hour to catch up. But what i have took from this post is, there won’t be any “tatter tots” with Old Villa’s DNA !! Some folk seem to want SB to fail, though most would like him to succeed, if only until mid table obscurity in the Prem. Others are saying we shouldn’t look to the past, but how do you learn from mistakes in the past if you don’t look back, chances are you will be destined to repeat them would you not. I am a cup half full personality, so although I’m no fan of SB, I will not complain if the guy takes us back into Europe, even it’s only the Europa League, and I’ll be more than chuffed if he brings that all illusive FA Cup. Yes we won when I was still in diapers, and I have seen us play in two finals at both Wembley’s against Chelsea and Arsenal, though the latter on TV. But I haven’t seen us add to the magic seven, and time is running out on us old timers. Even some of the younger ones on here have been to Wembley and seen us win under Brian Little and Big Ron, so they know there is no feeling like it. So if SB can bring any of those to our club then good luck to him, he has been pretty straight with us imo, and if he is being honest, has always cherished the idea of managing a BIG club like Villa, and I for one are willing to give him a chance, as long as I can see he has the players working for there over bulging pay packets.

  269. Heroes-and-Villans

    Nice to see that mervyn king was sat with keith at vp on sat. Ian taylor alays there too.
    Warms the heart a bit that off he pitch things are healing nicely. Under randy and fox it was damn right evil everywhere.

    Saw other day fox got a nice 2.7 mill a year salary!!

    Never liked remi because he was foxs mate.

  270. Paul Pears

    MK,

    This is not just any old blog….This is Aston Villa Life where we can debate any subject on this planet, so probably it is more like an Oscar Wilde blog, or even at times Question time.

    I was really negative around Xmas, when things were going wrong, and Bruce didn’t seem to have a clue, but like Andrew, in recent weeks, what I have seen on the pitch at Villa Park, has given me fresh hope.

    I do think that Bruce has been in a learning curve at a very big club, and is now beginning to settle into the job. I am not sure how far he can go, but the sky is the limit, and the future lies in his own hands. I also see the next team coming from some very wise young recruitment, with players like James bedeaux being signed, so that they can be developed by the club, and not cost us a fortune.

    I am sure that Dr Tony sees the future through young players, which is why he is so involved in setting up academies around the world. I am sure the plan is not to be just another big spender, and Bruce is clearly now taking more interest in our young players. Would have loved to have seen Callum O’hare given a run out the other night at Huddersfield. Have been impressed with him and others.

  271. Heroes-and-Villans

    James

    Dont get the age thing at all. Think we are getting it right! We have gone in previous years, young and hungry, foreign inexperienced and old and experienced!

    I like the 24 to 28 ages. Just right ages for me.

    Think we have a good blend now.

  272. John Lerwill

    Canada: “Others are saying we shouldn’t look to the past, but how do you learn from mistakes in the past if you don’t look back, chances are you will be destined to repeat them would you not.”

    Yep, that’s a good way of looking at life. But I was talking in the context of the issue that some are going on about what Bruce had done *(and not done) up until February, but forgetting that the whole scene (squad-wise) at VP has changed since January 31. And we’re only very recently *beginning* to see the fruit of those changes.

    So it’s in that way I was urging that the past be put aside. The guy has to be measured on what’s going on *now* i.m.o.

  273. John Lerwill

    Andrew: “Never liked remi because he was foxs mate.”

    I wonder if he was when Remi left VP?

    I read something that Remi had said there was a lot that he was not told about – and by Fox I assume. So if that was the case I would have said respect for Fox went the day Remi decided to pack his bags.

  275. r0bb0

    Picking up on one of the points made today, if negative posters have left because people were getting at them then they need to grow a thicker skin and continue to have the courage of their convictions.
    It’s tough when everyone seems to be against you but if you’re expressing your honestly felt opinions then stick with them . . . . unless or until someone can present real facts that prove you’re wrong.
    In the past I’ve taken plenty of abuse for being too positive and supportive of the team or manager. I was even banned from another site for continually disagreeing with the site owner who fervently believed that Martin O’Neil had to go, that 442 was an archaic way of playing and that dominating possession was the only way to progress.
    I thought it was bollcks then and I still think it’s bollcks now so I kept saying so until I got banned.
    People having different opinions from yourself make a blog interesting and there’d be no point in visiting a blog if everyone said the same thing

  276. Mark King

    I don’t think any of us are against Bruce succeeding if he does, his history just does not suggest he will. You can say he has never had a big club but there a reason for that he has never done enough with a small club to warrant getting one bar promotions and those happen every year. He could of gone abroad and tried his luck there but does anyone think that was ever likely? Most decent managers these days seem to be getting there shots quite young. In the prem at the top you have to have to coach a multi national side of big ego’s, already he has binned the foreigners and gone British/Scandinavian who’s that remind you of? I have no problem with that it is just not possible to do in the modern game at the top.

    Robbo- your positive mate you just don’t get how irritating that can be to others who are less so 🙂 When people are getting told don’t believe what you are personally seeing just trust in the future being better its to much for some, its not that they don’t believe in what they think just that they cannot be arsed arguing against someone’s prediction of glory next year and gloss over the bad bits. One will say they are a realist the other positive 🙂

  277. Mark King

    watching Chelski v Manure and when the players think its a foul they all stop and look at the ref who then obliges by blowing the whistle. Compared that to what I have seen in the champs where the ref has to see blood to blow up its laughable that they are running the same game.

  278. r0bb0

    Mark, we all find it frustrating/irritating when we’re unable to convince others of things that seem blindingly obvious to ourselves.
    Funnily enough though I don’t sense that in the current discussions. You are relentlessly anti Bruce and I see little compromise in your debate.
    On the other side of the fence I see much more nuanced discussion. I can’t name a single person on here who is an enthusiastic supporter of Bruce. I can’t name a single person who believes that he is going to take us into Europe.
    I do however see people taking a pragmatic approach, believing that he has a good chance of gaining us promotion.
    You say that you don’t see Bruce succeeding. But how do you define success? If it’s promotion with glowing football and rapid progression in the premiership then I (and most on here) will agree with you that they don’t expect that from Bruce.
    I, however, have less lofty ambitions. I just want Bruce to gain us promotion next year, no more no less. He is patently a sensible candidate to achieve that and no other candidate has a better record than him in that regard.
    You probably find it odd that I’d be happy to watch boring football provided that we win. Actually I haven’t been bored at Villa Park this year (and I have in other recent years). I’ve often been frustrated and confused, but not bored, and more often than not I’ve gone home from Villa Park happy. . . . for the first time in many a season!

  279. John Clark

    Very well said, r0bb0:

    “Picking up on one of the points made today, if negative posters have left because people were getting at them then they need to grow a thicker skin and continue to have the courage of their convictions.
    It’s tough when everyone seems to be against you but if you’re expressing your honestly felt opinions then stick with them . . . . unless or until someone can present real facts that prove you’re wrong.
    In the past I’ve taken plenty of abuse for being too positive and supportive of the team or manager. I was even banned from another site for continually disagreeing with the site owner who fervently believed that Martin O’Neil had to go, that 442 was an archaic way of playing and that dominating possession was the only way to progress.
    I thought it was bollcks then and I still think it’s bollcks now so I kept saying so until I got banned.
    People having different opinions from yourself make a blog interesting and there’d be no point in visiting a blog if everyone said the same thing”

  280. John Clark

    And might I add, there’s only one way to get banned at AVL…By treating others poorly. And maybe one person got banned for continually being a bell-end to other posters, once upon a time? I forget.

    We’re all Villans, we all have our opinions, and that’s why we’re here. I don’t smoke anymore, but I always did enjoy a few drinks, a few smokes, and a great argument about as much as anything. I love reading the neggo as much as the posso.

  281. Trinity

    Second that. I also know that MK has generally been positive over the years, with a sense of humour to boot.
    I miss ex regulars like B62, Brasil, the Steamers, SWV, Runtins, Frem et al who were posting back in 2011. For all the negativity, they added to AVL. And like John said, we’re all Villans.
    Hope you’re doing okay, ST75. Jenny too xxx.

  285. IanG

    Lana
    I too miss the old & newer crew who’re not posting, which is why I have to amuse myself.
    come in no 9!
    Seriously we miss you & hope nothing bad has happened to you all.
    JC
    You said what many of us feel about this.
    Personally I only react to so called negative posts when it’s the same one repeated over & over & boring.
    As Mr Wilde said [sorry Mark] ‘if people agree with me I always think I must be wrong.
    Yes he probably was a bit of a peacock.
    I wonder how many, if any, of the injured will be fit on saturday, or even in 3 weeks time & if we get any more.
    I’m liking the under 23’s & they saw off Brighton 2-0 last night with Davis & sellers scoring.
    JL
    I agree with you about the main focus being the present, but am not into censorship, so I can say what I feel also without intent to harm, although I think you tend to be misrepresented by the bored.
    MK
    Don’t get us started on the refs in the championship, I’m convinced they’ve got a different rulebook to the rest of us.
    r0bb0
    The football isn’t boring me either, frustrating occasionally, but that isn’t everything.
    I try not to mention the ‘B’word as it’s a wind up.

  286. James Gill

    andrew
    age of bruce favourite team
    johnson not ours
    hutton 32
    taylor 28
    chester 28
    baker26
    jedi 32
    lansby 27
    houirane26
    adoamh 29 30 at xmas
    kodja27 28 at halloween
    amavi 23
    hogan 25 bree 20 birr29

  287. IanG

    JL
    I would say Gard’s so called respect for Fox eveaporated a lot quicker than that.
    He came with respect to the club & left with respect to AV, & unlike Clark who had no cause to complain, hasn’t commented negatively about the club.
    I think he took Fox at face value & judging by how the look on his face changed when he found out he was being shafted & no promises kept in the transfer window, I think he found out quite early the hard way.
    But he has my respect because of his obvious capability, & because of his integrity & professionalism.
    He had far more potential than Bruce, but we are where we are.

  288. IanG

    JG
    I think Amavi is 22, Hourehane 24,
    & you seem to be saying this from where you’re standing in the future or have you turned to astrology?
    You also leave out the younger ones who are part of the progression, & there are a good few of those.
    If we get another 3 or 4 in the summer to add to the balance it could turn out a good basis, & there’s no reason to think they will be ancient, but we will see.
    If we get promoted then there will some more changes so I don’t see why the doom & gloom, & if B screws up he won’t be here.
    Also a number of those not suitable for the prem [if we get there], like Bacuna & Hutton will be at the end of their contracts, & Gabby will be gone.
    Hutton’s contract runs out this year but seems to be up for 1 more year & Richard’s contract runs out at the end of the season if I’m not mistaken.
    If Hutton keeps on playing like he has been lately, then he has a value as a support & in the dressing room, but we still have de Laet to go with Bree.
    With some luck we will have a good team for the championship develop out of the squad, & the signs recently are supporting this.
    This is the first time for years that there appears to be a coherent policy, so at least there is a possibility that something better may come out of it

  290. James Gill

    noticed at weekend watford board will decide if cleverly starts another match due to clause in contract, what was round doing allowing bruce to let hutton get new contract after paying 4m for replacement and that delaet would be ready to go in new season, last few matches have hid previous 20 odd under bruce even sheff wed had only 1 win in previous 5

  291. IanG

    JG
    whatever
    No team replaces a chunk of the team with 18 yr olds, only one or two at a time.
    Green is one, as would RHM if he had played the game & then not been injured & he is not even 18.
    Grealish is probably 22 but injured, & Davis & others are being integrated into the first team & environment slowly, which is quite a step up.
    I think your over focus on Bruce is blinding you sometimes to positive signs in the present.
    Also remember that I & most of the people on here did not want Bruce either.
    If you are of the opinion that he should be immediately sacked that is your opinion.
    But please do not think that we are pro Bruce when we try to see what positives there are.
    Otherwise we would all be miserable.

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