‘Tinkerman’ The Master v Student

Sunday’s defeat at Leicester City saw Tim Sherwood rotating our new crop of players and pitting his wits against the original and master, ‘Tinkerman’ Claudio Ranieri.

A fascinating first half line up saw Jack Grealish and Carles Gil deployed in wide roles, left and right respectively, with Ashley Westwood and Carlos Sanchez as the holding midfielders. Scott Sinclair played in behind the returning Gabby Agbonlahor and there was a debut for Joleon Lescott at the expense of Ciaran Clark.

The travelling contingent were rewarded by an entertaining first half display that saw a buoyant Grealish notch his first strike for the club he loves.

The picture changed at half time. ‘Tinkerman’ Ranieri whose success so far this season has been built on a settled side bought on Nathan Dyer for his debut and tactically ordered his team to defend higher. The resulting change in momentum had us immediately on the back foot and despite taking a two goal lead through a wonderful piece of skill from Carles Gil it was Leicester that always looked most likely to take the spoils.

Such a turnaround has led to the tactical nous of Tim Sherwood being widely questioned and in particular why substitutions were not made to shore up the Villa lead. It is obvious that Sherwood, with a large squad at his disposal will chop and change the squad to ensure that there is a ready supply of fresh legs and tactical variation. The notion of winning titles with 14 players after all belongs with gas light.

What we learnt from Sunday though is that whilst Sherwood can design and employ a system from kick off unlike his Leicester counterpart and indeed his opposite number in the Sunderland dug out in the previous game, he is less adept at flexing the formation and personnel and putting a plan B into action.

Indeed only two ‘in game’ transformations from Tim’s tenure spring to mind; the FA Cup tie at Villa Park last season against Leicester when he elevated himself from being a Trinity Road spectator to dressing room fixer and the opening day introduction of Gestede from the bench to take all the points at Bournemouth.

What can definitely be said of Sherwood is that he wears his heart on his sleeve, going so far as to declare on the BBC after Sunday’s reverse that he had ‘never felt this bad’ after a loss.

It may be therefore, that his strong emotional attachment to developments on the field is capable of clouding his judgement at crucial times during matches – a dangerous trait if you aspire to be a ‘Tinkerman’.

Comments 150

  1. morning Matt

    we were undone by ranieri’s changes and Tims blinkered attack at all cost mentality IMO,
    sobering to think a win would of had us just a point behind the flying Foxes, small margins.

  2. It is small margines, especially after 5 games. But the trouble is we are aways the wrong side of the bloody margine.

    Not sure what formation suites us now. Maybe still go with 4231 with gana in for westy and vertout in for sinclair….sure it up a bit

  3. andrew- last season we were top 4 at this point, like I say its small margins at this point, its when everybody else is 20 points above you you can start shitting yourself 😉

  4. we have to play 2 DM’s if we are going to use the full-backs like wingers. or stick with one and have a solid RB with amavi getting down the left and Adama playing on the right. At the moment it has to be hutton although crespo played last night and Ilori

  5. Mark

    Yeah it is too early to panic and far to early to write of any new signings.

    Id like to see crespo at rb just holding allowing amavi to get forward.

    Got a feeling llori will be a dm you know. Where did he play last night?

    Crespo Richards Lescott Amavi
    Llori Gana
    Adama Gill Grealish

    so many bloody options and players….makes ts life harder!!

  6. Despite the disappointment after the Leicester game I still think we have plenty to look forward to this season. As soon as we get Gana, Traore, Gil, Grealish and Sinclair all together in the team we have enough creativity, speed and talent to win Premier League football matches.

    I also think Kozak should be given his chance to come off the bench. He keeps scoring in the reserve games that he plays and he has scored in the Premier League.

    Ayew needs time to develop. He is clearly not up to speed at present.

    Sherwood needs to really think about his substitutions and start acting like a manager. Keep calm under pressure and make intelligent tactical substitutions.

    Team for the weekend
    Hutton Richards Lescott Amavi
    Traore Gana Grealish Gil

  7. Mark – why do we need to play with x2 defensive midfield players?

    I believe one should be enough especially against teams like WBA at home. Gana has the legs to cover defensively if required. We should concentrate on attacking football.

    If the game is won at 2-0 – we can then have the option to drop Gana back or bring on another defensive midfield player

  8. Andrew he played DM mate.

    Richard S- every team who use their fullbacks like we do use 2DM’s or they get over run like we do. especially with so many attack minded players like gil, grealish, in the midfield. Gueye can get forward anyhow as can sanchez.

    The other way is to make sure one full back sits. Ts will get the balance right before long but he may have to drop westy and bacuna or even. Gabby to do it IMO

  9. Afternoon Matt G , and thanks again for the interesting article .

    As I am laid up with the flu and unable to do much, I watched the second half again . It’s surprising how much more you notice when you know the result and if spectators feel that way imagine how the coaches and managers must feel

    What struck me second time watching was that we may have been a little unfair to TS – myself included . The second villa goal , stunning by Gil , was against the run of play in the second half . From the 45th minute Leicester came out in a much higher gear than the first half and they were relentless . We looked taken aback . Mahrez was played more centrally with Dyer comjng on and he ran amock. We did well to contain him first half but whether it was the tinkerman’s changes or our fatigue /complacency second half , Leicester had the upper hand before Tim made the subs. Dwight Yorke commented that he was surprised Tim didn’t let a goal scorer stay on for at least ten/fifteen mins more as he would have been full of confidence and buzzing with adrenalin but Tim said he had taken a knock . Inspite of our 2nd goal you could see the foxes were on the brink of scoring . Did he think that the only way to stop their onslaught was to try and score another , hence the Rudy and Ayew subs ? Who knows . But because we were on the back foot chasing after them all the time from the 45 min, we lookked more tired . Ranieri Had brought on two sets of fresh legs – he had to change something as they were ones behind . AV were ahead so no need to fix what ain’t broken.
    Their third goal was a calamity for us and an act of bravery by Dyer . Guzan may have been at fault for coming out and Hutton and Richards got tangled up along the way, but only twenty seconds before that Guzan had completed a superb goal kick which fell at Richardsons feet and could have got us the winner . Leicester deserved to win from their fantastic second half and come back but at least we will know better next time .

  10. Jenny – the article was a satire – it made me smile and it the content is so true.

    I do hope that you are feeling better although I am not sure how you could bring yourself to watch the second half again.

  11. Afternoon lads & lasses – long time no see.

    I think we’ve played a little bit better than the results suggest, but that is irrelevant. We are better to watch when we have the ball, I think that’s undeniable, but we are still struggling badly in certain positions.

    Gueye’s energy and aggression were very badly missed at the weekend, particularly in the last 20 minutes when any Leicester player who felt like it walked past Sanchez and Westwood like they weren’t there. Three of the back four, who’d performed well up to this point, were swamped with no protection and we collapsed badly.

    I say three of the back four because Bacuna was shocking all afternoon. He seemed to be having a private competition with Sanchez about who could give the ball away most often in the most dangerous position. That was the only battle he won.

    I don’t know if Crespo will be an improvement but he’s got to be given an opportunity soon. I also think we need a goalkeeper in January if Bunn isn’t up to the mark, because Guzan is a liability.

    On the plus side, Gil, Grealish, Traore are very exciting and Gueye has started well, as has Amavi. I wouldn’t write Veretout off yet, even though the pace of the game passed him by he still showed a few nice touches. Gestede needs fitness and service. Ayew would be the one I’m more concerned about but even in his case it is far too early to tell. The signs aren’t promising though. I still think we need a striker.

    Beat Birmingham & WBA and then things will seem a lot better. WBA are there for the taking, their back four is the slowest I’ve ever seen. I still think we shouldn’t be in a relegation battle this year, but we’ve made hard work of a pretty good set of fixtures so we need to settle everyone’s nerves soon with a couple of wins.

  12. Steve w- nice to hear from you fella. We did play well first half and as Jen has said second half we needed to regroup but never did and got worse after we scored, probably thinking Leics would give up.
    Bakuna was at the root of almost all our problems, his lofted ball to Sanchez on the edge of our area was an absolute beauty, didn’t anyone ever tell him not to pass across your area???? and his tackle on Lescott who was already in trouble was a gem 🙂

    I agree on the new lads but would like to see Kosak given a shot as he has at least got prem scoring history in his locker. would also try Vertoute in a midfield three with gana and sanchez as he is a box to box playmaker who can actually take free kicks and corners!!!!

  13. Its annoying me thinking about Westwood and his corners.

    Dont like to be too harsh on Bacuna. He is no right back….Tim said when he took over square pegs in square holes!

    Bacuna is a good squad player to fill in for injury.

  14. Maybe Tim got it wrong in the second half but surely the players would pick fairly quickly that things are amiss. Is it not possible that a player of lescott or Richards experience to change the approach before the s**t hits the fan or are they bound by the manager’s word? They aren’t animals trained to listen and listen only. I’m sure they’ve seen similar scenarios. Can’t they adjust without a nod from Tim?

  15. Thanks RichardS – I’m a masochist crossed with an anorak for sure 🙂

    I don’t think Bacuna will be on the team sheet again soon and I can’t see the baggies beating us at home or in their place for that matter.
    Ian – you’d think they would see it wouldn’t you.

  16. Yes Andrew I remember him saying that too – have we all forgotten Bacunas free kick wonder goal against Man City when he was playing as defensive midfielder . It was sublime .

  17. Jenny was right in her assessments, but I didn’t think that Villa looked like wilting before Gil went off. Even though the Foxes came at us more at the start of the s-h, it was no more than they did at the start of the match and Villa didn’t look over-pressed at that point.

    MOMS hits the nail on the head i.m.o. – the possession play of Gil had more of an effect than we thought – when he went off no-one seemed to have a clue about how to keep the ball and/or pass accurately. We gave them the ball and they gained momentum. Simples – aided by the fact of TS not shoring up the midfield/defence.

  18. Jen/Ian-
    yes the players should take action richards and Lescott were being pulled more and more into midfield so knew. trouble is Tim took off a midfeilder in Gil who was always available to take the ball and put on Ayew a forward. he then compounded it by putting on Gestede another forward for gabby who at least gets in the way. the trouble with forwards and grealish to a degree is they are not much use at defending, they generally can’t tackle and don’t know where to stand (remember tekkers at corners hilarious).

    This left 2 midfield players effectively of any use and without gil no ball retention as Grealish was tired and getting sloppy. In this scenario it wouldn’t matter what the players realised they just didn’t have the players with the right skill set on the pitch to implement anything of worth. In hindsight they should of Kicked Mahrez off the park as lescott tried early on but we are too nice. Vertoute for Gil would of made sense and then Clarke for grealish and push Amavi into midfield to counter . the 2 forward subs achieve nothing but to undermine us.

  19. Andrew S,

    I love the creativity factor of this part of your team…

    Traore Gana Grealish Gil

    But … (very sadly) … for me it lacks weight. Great creativity but lack of ability to stem the thrust of a fierce opposition, a la Leicester – even with Gil’s holding skills. As I see it at least.

  20. We seem to be still deeply lamenting about what happened on Sunday, but I can remember so many matches like that one over the decades and (once upon a time) after 24 hours the subject was history. The headache would subside because the subject would get dropped.

    The key element is that we have seen as many different Villa teams this season as there have been (five) games. Players have been out because of injury, and we have bought another centre-back, with Ilori due to make an appearance, and Traore still not having seen too many minutes on the field.

    In short, we are gradually working towards TS’s best team, and it’s only going to be trail *and* error that it works itself out.

    It will take until late October until we start to see ‘the’ team emerge i.m.o. Until then, Tim is going to continue to make an error of judgment or two, and one or two players will stand up and be counted – or fall, as the case may be.

    I look forward to seeing what happens. In the meantime, we must pick up a win or two as no wins will only pile up the pressure. But I feel happy that under TS we have a good chance of seeing it work out and a reasonable season ahead.

  21. Here’s my selection, this team has a more even distribution of speed, skill and weight i.m.o….

    Unfortunately, I don’t think we can have both Grealish and Gill in the side just now, Grealish being too much of a luxury as I see it. Not disciplined or strong enough.

    As Mark says, Gabby “gets in the way” of opponents and his pace can be a great asset.

    Hutton Richards Lescott Amavi
    Traore Gil Gabby
    Kozak Sinclair

  22. John – I disagree with you – Gil and Grealish enjoy playing together. They are both comfortable on the ball and are the future of this club. They absolutely need to start together

  23. JL- I must admit I’m finding it hard to leave Grealish out as he brings so much when on form and fit
    but it does become a puzzle. I think Gil and grealish have a good understanding together and so did Adama briefly. I frequently find myself shoehorning players in because they are too good to leave out.

    It would be nice if Vertoute came good as he has a really good all round skill set and him and Gueye in the middle would be the best of both worlds. with the gil, traore ,grealish trio in front of them and Kosak or sinclair up top would leave a decent bench to change things when they tire.

  24. Thanks all for your comments. We’re seeing small margins between success and failure at the moment I do wonder though whether we have the systems and the tactical nous in place to be able to utilise a bigger and more varied playing staff.

  25. paul whiting- sorry mate didn’t see your reply as new post was up. You can say we never had sustained pressure but we had possession of the ball and scored the goals first. Strange how every pundit said that villa had bossed it obviously they have a different idea of success to you , and if we are in the bottom 6 come may as you say then fare play to you but at this point in time their is just as much chance we won’t be.

  26. would like to think with the squad sherwood could put out different teams ,formations for different matches
    we have a what i call a lot off light weights grealish gil sinclair gabby traore westwood bacunaayew
    we really need a player like vardy joey barton r savage nasty pieces of work every team needs one
    team for baggies
    bunn guzan is shot 3 mistakes in a row needs dropping
    crespo cannot be worse than other 2options
    lescott some thing to prove
    amavi needs help on that side
    sanchez needs to get up to speed has 1 over now no more excuses
    gana hope he fit
    traore same
    gil be willing to try bacuna wide right for 30 mins
    gabby just for his derby record kozak after hour

    and john l gabby has been awful first 5 games again his fall over and miss against pal,free header again m utd ,yes he had lovely assist for gil goal but never gave sinclair much of chance head down crossing ball ,plus what was he doing standing corner 6 yard box supposed to head ball away

  27. Before the season started we all thought the fixture schedule for the first six games favored us. However, that was also before anyone realized how superlatively both Crystal Palace and Leicester would be playing at this point.

    What does this mean? Well, for one thing, we’ve had three one goal losses — and all were against top-6 sides. Additionally, we all feel that we very well should have come away with points against both the Eagles and Foxes, and quite possibly ManU as well. In each of these three we were in the match till the final whistle; although we certainly lost them, we definitely weren’t played off the pitch the entire game like we’ve been used to seeing over the last few years.

    Something good is in its infancy, but both Tim and team must learn to aggressively claim what’s there for the taking.

  28. Well put, Texas.
    Seems most clubs have improved, which I believe Villa have, but as you’ve succinctly said, “… both Tim and team must learn to aggressively claim what’s there for the taking.”

  29. Richard S/Mark,

    You guys are both misreading me a tad… 😉

    It’s not that I don’t think that Gil/Grealish don’t play well together, it’s simply that I believe Grealish is too much of a luxury until he learns how to play a whole match and not just when he feels like it.

    After he scored on Sunday, it was as though he was still dreaming about it and did nowt second half. That and Gil having to go off were two of the reasons why we lost in my view.

    Without a super defence, if Villa are to keep away from the relegation zone, then prettiness is not the thing to utilise too heavily. Use it when you safely can, but not otherwise.

  30. John – trust me, I understand you, I just don’t agree with you.

    Grealish is one of the most naturally gifted footballers at the club, one of our own and in my opinion he is the real deal. He needs to be on the pitch learning his trade.

    We capitulated in the second half because of the managers stupid substitute decisions, we lost the midfield battle and the game was lost.

    Not having Gana in the team was a huge loss. We could do with signing another player in the mould of Gana.

    Ayew should not be in the first team at present, its unfortunate but it’s true. Kozak should make the bench this weekend.

    If the manager doesn’t think Veretout is ready then where was Joe Cole. He could have come on for Gil for 20 minutes.

    I think Hutton should start at right back.

    We need to start winning games.

  31. RichardS,

    Grealish *is* as you describe – but as he is – *at the moment* – he is something of a luxury. He gives the ball away far too much and is not a good retriever.

    Bolster the defence with strong full-backs *and* a good defensive midfielder (maybe Gana is the man for that) and maybe your view becomes workable, i.m.o. But I don’t think we have the solidity at the back for them both (Grealish and Gil) just now.

    You’re right that Grealish needs to learn his trade by playing but the rest of the team would have to be moulded differently to give him that time, if Villa are to gain points.

  32. John – the team were playing fine until Gil departed the field with both Grealish and Gil playing together.

    I believe if Gana had been on the field we would have comfortably won the game. Gana is a machine of a player – he could run all day and not tire. Sanchez and Gana will prove to be a formidable partnership. This base will allow Gil – Grealish – Traore – Sinclair to flourish with attacking/creative free flowing football.

  33. from the game on sunday i have my doubts are midfield can cope playing 4231.

    Id want to start Gill & Grealish though and also adama!! I have no idea anymore what our best set up is. Good Luck Tim!

    I think in reality though maybe John is right. At the moment can we have two luxury players in Gill & Grealish starting?

  34. RichardS,

    Yes… I’ve been saying the same about Gana.

    On G & G, no … it was Gil that was fine but Grealish spent most of the game playing silly billies, including one missed chance that should have hit the back of the net. OK, he did correct that error, but it was reminiscent of 2 or 3 chances he’s had in earlier matches when he’s missed chances and I was beginning to think he’d never score! In the end he did – phew!

    But the rest of his play after that score was not worth his ability, and when Gil went off he was exposed even more – though that was also down to TS’s subbing.

    I will agree that they’re both worth playing together in a home match, but a bit of a luxury away against a team like Leicester in my view.

  35. One point that I have noticed about our midfield is that Westwood and Sanchez don’t seem to mesh efficiently or work well together. Now what’s interesting is that Gana seems to work quite well with either of them, but we can’t afford to have all three on the pitch at the same time or else we won’t have room enough for the flair players. So my idea would be to start Sanchez with Gana, utilizing his aggressiveness to build a lead, but then once we have that lead replace him any time after the hour mark with Westy. Why? Because although Sanchez’s aggressiveness is good to help build a lead, he can be far too reckless of play in giving the ball away way too easily and way too cheaply. Westwood, on the other hand, is criticized for playing the ball too safely yet he almost never gives the ball away at all. Ergo, once we have the lead, Westwood is perfect for us to park the bus, run out the clock, and claim the points.

  36. RIP Tommy Thompson

    The Villa, Preston and Stoke prolific scorer of the 50s and 60s has died aged 86. He played with Tom Finny at Preston and Sir Stan when at Stoke. he played with (Sir) Johnny Dixon at Villa!

    I can remember my father’s chagrin when Tommy left Villa in the summer of 1955. We were on holiday and it spoilt my father’s day!

  37. John – i still don’t agree with you – we will have to agree to disagree

    Grealish and Gil can play together – and so can Traore. If Gil stays on the pitch we win that game

    All players miss chances – did you see Sterling last night?

    Grealish scored a great goal and that will give him confidence – he needs to play home and away. All this talk about luxury players is utter rubbish. Grealish and Gil are quality footballers and that is what we have been deprived off at Villa for 4 years since the departure of the likes of Young/Milner/Downing.

    I would much rather see creative players in the final third. We are playing four at the back with two defensive midfield players. We should be able to let the other 4 guys run riot up front

  38. RichardS,

    Fine. But there’s no point on repeating “they can play together” when (1) I have said they can and (2) we have read it before! 🙂

    I’m only saying that Grealish needs to up his game: effectively to grow-up in his play so that he takes more care over what he does. He’s far too casual at present and the team can’t afford that if they’re going to start picking up points.

    In a couple of years time the Grealish/Gil partnership could be world-boggling. I’m just asking for a bit of caution just now. We want points as well don’t we?

  39. You play your best footballers, that’s why Gil and Grealish should start when ever possible. It’s a pleasure watching those two play football. Will be even better when Adama is back. 4231 is the way to go. Why play Gabby or Sinclair on the flanks when you have really gifted players like Gil and Grealish ?

    The more I watch Sinclair the more I think he’s got the footballing ability of Gabby just with a better off the ball instinct in the box. He doesn’t beat people. Can’t dribble. Can’t pass very often. He’s scored a few tap ins and pens but he shouldn’t be a starter unless it’s up front

    Westwood shouldn’t play either. He hasn’t improved and it’s painful watching him trying to get forwards. I’ve seen snails move quicker. Gana is by far our best CM. Sanchez is hit and miss. I’d like to see Verwtout or Llori in CM

    Right back- anyone but Hutton and Bacuna. Crespo or Llori again maybe.

  40. Frem: “You play your best footballers, that’s why Gil and Grealish should start when ever possible.”

    Well – for me, at least – that’s what the discussion is about and I argue that Grealish (though he has great *ability*) is far from the finished article … and he is *one* of the reasons why we’re dropping points i.m.o. Yes, you can drool at some of his skills, but if he’s given the ball away 50 times – or failed to fully contend for the ball – then he’s failed to contribute to a winning result.

    As MOMS has said … if you keep the ball then the opponents can’t get it. We need to have players on the field that can do that.

  41. evening John- one thing on grealish from Sunday is Tim moved him into the centre from the left, a much more combative spot. Add the inability of several Villa players losing the ball too and sitting deeper Grealish had next to nothing much to pass to. Doesn’t excuse some of his sloppiness but we are talking about a lad playing his 2nd Prem game this season who has had 2 injuries so far this season, maybe a little match fitness and sharpness is missing at the moment. That goal should lift the lad and I think he will rise to the challenge.

    I think the subs had abigger impact than anything on a tiring midfield, I have all ready written that I thought Vertoute for Gil and Clark for Grealish with clark taking up Amavi’s position and Amavi grealish’s would of been prudent. Tims subs made no sense when the general momentum of the game had shifted with all four midfielders looking fatigued.

    Like Richard I think he adds much more than his deficiencies take away, and we haven’t faired much better without him other than the win at Bournemouth, personally we look workman like without him with very little created.

    If he becomes a real problem I’d agree but he will improve with match fitness.

    Had to laugh Tekkers hasn’t travelled with Liverpool for their UEFA game the reason he Left 🙂

  42. Did Grealish do anything wrong for the goals we conceded ?

    He doesn’t give the ball away to often. He protects well most the time. He, like Gil looks after the ball unlike most our players. It kept bouncing off Gabby all game and I don’t think he held it up once. How Grealish plays, he will give e ball away a bit. He try’s to make things happen and has to make risky passes. He’s a fabulous little player. I’m fed up of watching cr*p players the last 5 years. Wiemann, Gabby, Zoggy Tonv etc all playing. It’s lovely watching good players play. It’s hard work watching most our players

  43. When your leading, it’s best to keep the ball if you can’t defend. We can’t defend so why not have players who can look after the ball and keep it of the opposition? G and G can do that. If we play players on the wings or CAM on the basis of work rate and tackling then we won’t get anywhere. Remember the days of Wiemann and Gabby out wide ? They tracked back ( kind off)mbut God it was bad when we had the ball

  44. Mark- I’d probably leave Gabby in for the two next matches. It’s the only games he gives a s**t in. His link up play isn’t there but he can run in a straight line and that’s all he should do and hope G and G can find him

    I don’t agree that Sinclair should start. Adama if he’s fit. Sinclair offers very little from open play unless he’s got a tap in on the goal line. Another poor player we have

  45. Exactly frem personally I thought Grealish was a huge part of why we stayed up, he linked the team with delph, tekkers and cleverly. shame Tim didn’t trust Gil back then could of been a lot different.

  46. Frem – I am not sure why you are so anti Sinclair – he is the only player that looks capable of scoring a significant amount of goals.

    I agree with you about Gil and Grealish – they are both a joy to watch – they are comfortable on the ball and creative – they will be awesome for Villa. Add Traore into the team and we have pace, power and directness to add into the team. It will be exciting to watch.

    Gana will be our midfield engine and Sanchez will be the hoover.

    It’s unfortunate we don’t have a great right back, Guzan is erratic and his distribution sucks.

    The other big problem is the money TS has wasted trying to replace Benteke. We have spent a large sum of money on Ayew and unfortunately he does not look like he is Premier league quality.

    Ruddy will score if we put the ball on his head from six yards out.

    Oh well – no football team is optimised.

  47. Mark,

    I have not said that Grealish won’t improve … all I am talking of is his contribution *to-date* (not just Sunday’s match). I have seen him perform very similarly in previous matches, and when the opponent is a high-pressing team then he seems to be at his weakest.

    As for his goal “lifting him”, well it just sent him into lah-lah land in Sunday’s match!

    Yes, he *will* grow, of course, but I may be repeating myself over and over again in stating that we can’t afford too much of his inclusion *if* it means we keep on dropping points.

  48. Frem: “Sinclair offers very little from open play unless he’s got a tap in on the goal line. Another poor player we have”

    Huh? Frem, you’ve just described Jimmy Greaves in that statement!! Was he poor? 🙂

  49. Good analysis Matt G.the problem with Ranieri is that with such a long career in coaching you are never sure if he is motivated enough to achieve things at a club..Leicester won but i believe they will be tested when they start losing games..i still believe they will be going down.
    As of Villa, the first 5 games have made my mind up..Tim isnt the man for the job…he has signed good players,but simply isnt the man to take us forward.Tactically naive am afraid he is…There are plenty of good managers from the continent that Villa can lure…we have a sporting director in place to do that.Manages like Gourvennec at Guingamp,Remi Garde.Weinzeirl at Augsburg…proven coaches who have done great jobs on modest budgets..

  50. At the rate, Villa’s strikers are scoring, they might as well bring old Ivanhoe back on a free. At least he could hold the ball up.
    I don’t think Gil and Grealish need to play together if Capt Adama is playing. There’s plenty of flair with any two of them playing. It depends on the situation. There will be times when it’s good to have all three playing, but other times not. If we’re protecting a lead, I’d prefer more defensively minded players. Somebody suggested bringing on Westy later in a match when ahead cause he rarely loses the ball. It’s a good idea.

  51. Should be looking forward to Saturday but I’m dreading it now. Our players won’t be confident and already we are looking over our shoulders hoping other teams lose so we don’t drop into the bottom 3. That’s what happens when you can’t beast Sunderland and f**k up a 2-0 lead away. You again be fighting for you place in the prem. Yey

  52. JL- hello mate, I think the opposite, we can’t afford not to play him, in fact build the team around him. Sub him if he tires or has a stinker but he should start if fit for me and its the only way to learn.
    Besides are you not being a little defeatist? we need to evolve or we will always be scraping the bottom. I certainly wouldn’t pin Sundays loss on Grealish to any great extent.Pushed into the middle he was never going to plug the gap, especially as Ayew out left weakened us.

    Trinity- I think Adama doesn’t link up the way Gil and grealish do , more of a solo effort like Nzogbia but with a future. He certainly reads the game well enough to be where he needs to be but from what I’ve seen you give him the ball and his off. I also read he is tenacious in defence, we shall see. I think any fictional character could do better than our forwards 😉

  53. Frem- don’t worry mate Gil and Grealish fitter, adama available hopefully, wonder if Vertoute can play right back? 🙂

    Jackvilla- Too early to get rid especially with so many signed it is annoying but he has to learn soon
    if he does its one more thing he’s done better than Lambert, we go again and again and again……..

    Ian/Jen I had a thought on the players should organise themselves chat, if Rannieri hadn’t changed their team about would Leicester have kept plugging away in the same way or would the players try something else? I doubt it.

  54. Just watched the goals for the first time and I didn’t realise Grealish was outside the area for his goal, and that Gils had so much bend on it. You couldn’t tell that from where we were sat, that’s why I love sitting behind the goal

    I couldn’t bring my self to watch the goals though. I’m hooping Guzan won’t ever play again.

    Those were finishes were special. John, can you imagine if for Grealish’s goal it fell out to any other out field player ? It would have gone into row z

    I hope they both start on Sat along with Adama and Gabby will off course be up front

  55. Jack- Sometimes I wonder about Sherwood as well. A lot of it hasn’t been good but he took us over in 19th place,got us to wembley and it was down to him for a masterclass tactical display against Liverpool

    I think he will be really good for us. He’s got good balance as a manager I think. Can stay calm or unleash hell.

    Defensively he needs to improve big time. We’ve conceded way to many goals

  56. Mark,

    Not defeatist … that’s almost an insult, Mark, as I *never* have that attitude. *Never*.

    I would say it is more to do with realism. You HAVE TO have midfielders who do not give the ball away if you want to win. I repeat – good though he is, in my view he’s a luxury until Tim builds a stronger team around him – THEN he can come into his own.

  57. We did and it still hurts but we we were comfortable at 2-0 and then it when down the s**tter. Why? Not because G and G were playing. Gil did need to come of though when he did. Sherwood got that fine.

    We conceded because of 3 cr*p goals and an awful goalkeeper

  58. John – a luxury or are we very lucky to have such a talent ?

    If he goes out the team for someone with less ability then we reduce the chances of winning games. You need to score goals. With G or G out and moving say gabby wide and Ayew up top, we won’t score. Ever.

    Even with G and G playing together, the GK, 4 defenders and two DM’s should be enough to hold the attacks back a bit whilst they track back.

  59. No offence meant JL just meant we need to move on from the fear mentality like Leicester/palace seem to have done. If we wait to long with Grealish he will end up like our other youth products.
    It was better than losing 3-0 and should of been a win carved out in the main by G and G’s interaction. Tim should of shored the midfield up for the last 20-30 end of he had the players he chose to not to do it.

  60. Kristina is online !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get her and the Steamers back as well !!

    Exactly Mark- It’s time we stop playing players to do defensive jobs and play our own game. We’d be crazy not to play cracking footballers like Adama Gil and Grealish together. The two DMs behind should so there bloody jobs, and the defenders and keepers. They failed on Sunday, not G and G

    We are finally blessed with a balanced talented midfield 3. We aren’t blessed up front though. Shame Benteke isn’t still with us

    On Sat, WBA will park the bus so we need intelligent players to break through them. Not Sinclair and Gabby on the wings

  61. No it’s time Bunn starts or the new young lad we signed. I’d like to see Llori at right back and Gana back in CM alongside Westwood most likely

  62. Frem: “It’s time we stop playing players to do defensive jobs and play our own game. ”

    I think you’re effectively agreeing with what I said … when we have a stronger team around Grealish then we can start moving on. As things stand, Grealish’s generosity to the opposition only exacerbates the overall weakness.

    Anyhow, we’ll see how the Albyun and Blews matches go … I’ll be quite happy to eat all my words about Grealish if he can quickly prove to me that he’s learnt something from Sunday.

  63. Good debate…

    For me, with Grealish, right now it’s about 90 minutes. He should play, and probably moreso as a starter than as an impact sub. I think he’s finding the flow of the game well when he starts…we all know it can be harder to come on as a sub and find the game then influence it.

    However, players’ roles change during a game. If Jack’s less keen on tracking back, harrying, tackling, etc., then he needs to come off after the attacking contribution has been made and we’re fighting to hold onto a lead.

    I’ve gone back and forth on Gil’s departure. If enforced, then there’s no argument. He was taking a number of knocks, and he did look slow covering defensively. On the other hand, he was good in possession.

    It was more Sanchez and collective decision making that fell apart. Down to Gil leaving? Perhaps. Leicester simply took it up a couple gears, swarming forward and pressing relentlessly. They had nothing to lose, down 2-0. We failed to track and contain Mahrez and Dyer. We failed to show composure and do smart things with the ball. We failed to match that intensity.

    I think Villa thought they’d sealed it at 2-0. They couldn’t find the extra gears and wilted in the face of Leicester’s greater to will to win down the stretch.

    There’s more to say on the topic, but I needs must run to the salt mines, and you get my drift anyway.

  64. Just read that vertoute’s wife gave birth just when he moved here not the best prep no sleep and extra training. Leicester offered €5m more for him but he chose us. So ranierri rates him then

  65. Well played Fiji hope they give wales and the aussies as hard a game nice to get the 5 points roll on Wales. won’t see the game tomorrow have a gig in Worcester at a Jazz festival bit gutted but should be fun anyway


  66. All the best to the Villa boys today. They will learn from last week and kick on.

    I am genuinely excited at the prospect of seeing Gil, Grealish and Traore playing togther.

    Free flowing football at Villa Park today – we will have too much for WBA – they epitimose ant football.

    Please Tim – be careful with the substitutions.

  67. Not looking forward to the game really. I’m dreading it actually. WBA will come with all the pressure on us and our players can’t handle pressure. They crumble with ultimate ease

    We need the win though just to keep our heads above water already. It’s been a dire start and anything but 3 points will make it a disastrous one

    The team – Guzan has to be dropped . Adama has to come in with Gil and Grealish. Gana and Sanchez in CM hopefully

    I’m not confident one but though. There’s a great chance we could lose our three derby games. We already lost one is a spectacular way

  68. Mark- Gil Adama and Grealish all out by the sounds of it

    May as well stay home. No creativity apart from Grealish. WBA will sit back and Sinclair couldn’t pass water through his hands

  69. They do look doubts if they haven’t trained especially Traore who’s been out 3 weeks. Time for Vertoute to play, he is touted as a play-making box to box player. watched a bit of u21’s Kosaks movement and anticipation is all there, better than the other forwards for me.

  70. my team if Gil/traore and Gana are out, although we know Gabby will play and I don’t mind to much.

    …………………Guzan..last chance





  71. Sanchez is worrying. Sherwood like his predecessor has very poor game day mgmt skills. Kozak needs a chance. If we are relying on Gana and Adama two players with 5 premier league matches experience combined we are in trouble. Here we go again. Oh dear! UTV

  72. Things will get better. West brom played a clutching hockey game today which I’m sure Pulis called for. Any bets on the Liverpool game next week? All will be forgive if Rodgers is out on his butt after that game. 🙂

  73. Can’t see us surviving. We don’t have a good striker in the club. Maybe time for Kozak. We won’t score goals. We won’t win games. We won’t stay up
    Westwood is an awful player. Gabby needs to leave the club. Sherwood subs were wrong today

    That was the easiest win wba will ever have. And the Scum will beat us

    We tactically are absolutely clueless

  74. Again we were absolutely awful, not got a striker at the club £16m wasted on Gestede and Ayew when we could have Austin cheaper, we can’t keep a clean sheet or score so that’s why we lose far more than we win or draw. Gas is clueless and this season may well be the one we go we are absolutely cr*p in every dept . It’s got to the stage the club need to put on beer promotions to get fans thru the fate, 6k empty seats again today and Tuesday is not a sell out either, these are derbies FFS f**k u randy u have killed AVFC I’ll dance in your grave

  75. B62: “Oh and Sherwood is no better than the previous pricks, clueless for different reason but none have game management”

    Hear, hear!!

    We’ve gone from being irrationally defensive (despite having a talismanic striker), to being irrationally attacking (despite NOT having any worthy striker at all).

    We’re the Villa — it is our God-given mission to lurch from one inexplicable extreme to the other.

  76. Good day Lifers,

    Anyone else sick of the same song playing endlessly???

    This time STILL lacks a spine…

    Guzan I have now lost faith in and would feel more confident with a new keeper, good shotblocker but seems nervy

    Richards: Great signing, happy with that piece of business

    Lescott: Stop gap I hope at his age and hopefully Okore can come back, steer clear of injuries but the worrying thing is he already seems overweight at such a young age

    Sanchez: reminds me too much of Bacuna, Jekyll and Hyde, concentration lapses, prone to giving the ball away in key areas

    Westwood: the new Carrick as we’ve been told by two managers is a crab and needs dynamic players around him so without Gana he looks so very average at best and his delivery from set pieces shocking for this level (better to have me on there and NO I am not joking)

    Gana: Great signing but if he’s injured we are in real trouble

    Veretout: living off the reputations of Pogba and better players, early days but for the money spent looks so ordinary

    Ayew, Gestede: Not getting service nor have we set up to play to either of their strengths but to this point and again it is early don’t look Premier league quality

    Kozak, Austin, Adebayor: Again where is that big, strong proper centre back who can hold the ball up and has a proven Prem (not French ligue not Championship) track record of scoring goals… we desperately need to spend real money on Austin in Jan if Newcastle aren’t more desperate than us, second option and could be bloody necessary is signing Adebayor OR put your ego aside Tim and play Kozak, he’s the only one who seems to put the ball in the back of the net on a regular basis, you can’t teach that no matter how awkward he looks doing it.

    Every year we’re praying there will be 3 worse teams than us and one day our luck will run out. Aaaah to be a Villa supporter.

  77. I worry about Sherwood after today, I really do

    Game plan was…. Well there wasn’t one. Plan B was hoof it to Rudy

    Westwood was awful all game. Veretout should have came on much sooner

  78. Ian
    Tuesday is everything for Sherwood lose that and he will have lost ALL the fans, he’s already let loads because he is arrogant and clueless. We will go down if we keep playing this way as we lose every week! This is worse than Lambert as Sherwood is saying we are going for it!! Christ if this is going for it we are f**ked and yet another non sell out for a local derby. Villa are s**t and dying on our arse

  79. Bilic is making this premier league thing look like a piece of p*ss… signs Jelavic for 3M as an insurance policy who is a proven premier league goalscorer and he’d start for us at the moment. How hard is it to make these common sense decisions!??!?!!?
    Beggars belief…

  80. Loving it, finally…nobody has come on the forum and said we have good players and soon it will get better and we just need to play a different formation…and…

    Reality has dawned…Sherwood is a bigger idiot than Lambert; the only excuse for Sherwood is if he was forced to take those summer signings by Lerners cronies

  81. Ian u had better be right.

    B62 Sherwood really has surprised me at how bad he’s been this season.
    I’d ALMOST be ready to cut my losses on him this early in the season if we lost to the Scum, he just seems clueless tactically and re: man mgmt.

    What does it take to be a Prem league manager if the last 3 we’ve had are anything to go by. Somehow with even a bit of common sense comes in and makes this League look easy when halfwits like the managers we hire are running the show.

    Really thought things would get better but we already seem to have lost the plot.

    Gana will make a huge difference in the middle of the park and Adama with a few flashes of brilliance can give the entire team and fans some much needed confidence and swagger but we can’t be relying on two young men with little prem league experience to save our season.

    Incredible, here we go again!

  82. Watfords two strikers are very good all round strikers, and ye will stay up because of it

    Our selfs, Newcastle and Sunderland don’t have a single good striker with a bit of every thing and will probably go down because of it

  83. I am more gutted this year than last, we all knew Lambert, Mcliesh etc were knob bears however Sherwood came in and did well early doors especially against the pool at Wemberleee and the striped filth twice in a week, however we were terrible against Burnley, Saints, Swansea, Stoke and Arsenal in the final. This year we are going backwards, we have won once and struggled against some really poor sides averaging under a point per match. It’s gonna be a long season

  84. Im done. Stepping back from the villa. Too much hurt. Spot on b62. I had hope under ts and the new signings but its just as bad. Ts is clueless.

    Could not care less about tues, who cares about the league cup when we are getting relegated from the richest league in the world.

    Its been coming and This is the year we are gone.

    Peace out people and find another hobbie x

  85. Looking at our fixtures I can’t see where our next point or win is coming from!!! Liverpool away, then Stoke( who we have a terrible home record against), then a run of Chelsea , Swansea, Spurs, Man City, Everton and then Watford, which takes us up to December. We prob will be going into December on a single figure points total, I really fear for our survival hopes

  86. Sherwood may be clueless tactically however he has the heart of a champion! Gana will bring some bite, Adama some dy nooo mite and the bluenoses are in for a fright. Beat them with Kozak as our striker and the season really starts!

  87. Another disappointing loss. It’s not time to hit the panic button, though. There’s still time for this team to settle. As Morley said after the game, TS needs to settle on his best team and keep playing it to get cohesiveness. Of course, injuries aren’t helping and as many have said, we need a striker who scores goals.
    Kozak should get a chance against the Blues.
    Keep your chins up lads. If Japan can beat South Africa in the rugby, Villa can improve and win matches.

  88. Even Sherwood is using the “The club is in a transitional period” line now, but more worrying he is referring to himself in the third person with utter bollox like ” Tim Sherwood is at his best when Tim Sherwood is backed into a corner”
    We wouldn’t be in that corner if he could set a team up, and hadn’t f**ked the transfer window up. £16m on Ayew and Gestede is criminal, they offer absolutely nothing. I see Austin scored his 6th of the season yesterday, that bad knee is really holding him back

  89. morning folks didn’t get to see any of the game looks like I dodged a bullet. spoke to a chap who went and he said Pullis parked the bus and that they kicked lumps out of our players. Ref was awful and didn’t help but we were not far behind his performance. Will have to see the Disallowed Goal sounds dodgy but did he wave play on? Also sounded like their goal had an element of luck to it.

    Still not time to panic but you have to ask why Mr I give players a chance isn’t playing Kosak? If our goal drought up front continues Jerrell Sellars knows exactly where the goal is.

  90. Really don’t know when things will Chang for us. LCFC and WH have struggled for years and now times hav changed. We’ve struggled for years and f**k all all changes. Typical Villa.

    I said to mum before the game Berihino will score. She said why, I said firstly because WBA need a win and secondly because he needs a goal. Helping hand Villa still at it. We are cursed

    Even if we win Tuesday night, it changes nothing. We will lose on Saturday to pool and go I to the drop zone

  91. Bunn needs to come in for Guzan. Llori for Hutton/ Bacuna. Gana and Veretout for Westwood and Sanchez ( the worst CM partnership over ever seen )
    Adama in for Sinclair and Kozak in for Gabby

    Tim needs to stop playing the regulars who have failed for years. Guzan, Westy and Gabby.

  92. Frem It may turn out we play better against the better teams that rely on there skill and passing above work rate, physical side and bus parking. more space for Gil, grealish and traore could work well for us.

  93. frem – Leicester are riding their luck 2-0 down 2 weeks running. We need to find that focal point up top and Kosak is as good as we have got to an all rounder. I would like to see a Gana vertoute combo in the middle.

    Just watched our MOTD why would the ref blow for a foul just before Richards heads it in? he allowed the cross to go in and the keeper pulls up slightly but it was very late. Also the handball against Berahino was in the area not on the edge where its taken from.

  94. Nice to see a cross actually make it to guestedes head late on. we really have to decide how we are going to play as Gabby is not a CF and its unfair to make him play as a back to goal ball winner.

  95. Lots of negative comments after the disapointing result yesterday.

    Losing Delph, Vlar and Benteke was a hammer blow for this team. Especially the goals of Benteke.

    However we need to be supportive of this team – booing them is not what they need right now.

    It will take time for them to gel and they are young, And young players need to learn to be consistent in terms of their performance. Gil and Grealish looked great against Leicester, not so yesterday.

    Not all players work out for managers. That is life in the Premier League. Just look at teams like Spurs and Liverpool who have purchased loads of players after the sale of Suarez and Bale. Only a few of the players purchased can be said to have been a success.

    I am concerned with the form fof Rudy and Ayew and a litltle confused that Kosak has not been given a chance or even a place on the bench.

    The team is missing the energy of Gana and the pace of Traore.

    We need some experience in the team at present. Joe Cole and even Nzogbia (he could do so much more for this team) could be used in this period when we are missing Gana and Westwood is not performing.

    Keep the faith boys – we have only played 6 games

  96. Sherwood has to change things and stop sticking with players who a re rotten. Guzan Westy and Gabby are rotten from Lamberk days, get them out of the club

    Sad thing is TS won’t be any different in that sense. Gabby will on Tuesday just because he’s a so called Villa fan. He won’t play on form or ability. I’d like to see a 442 With Ayew and Kozak up front, but that won’t happen

    If Shabby Gabby scores on Tuesday I’ll be be pretty gutted because it will keep him in the team with people thinking he’s doing well and will go down as a club legend Hahahhahahaha

    Change it Around Tim

  97. At this early stages Sunderland, Newcastle and us look the worst teams in this league by a country mile, and proving the exception to the rule any 1st 11 can beat any 1st 11.
    Boaz Myhill won’t even have to wash his kit after our toothless display yesterday. It maybe early days but it’s our worst start in 29 years, and we have a tough run of games coming up which could mean us going into December on a single points total, with a real uphill battle. It’s a very unforgiving league and the newcomers don’t seem as poor as in recent times, we could actually see all three newly promoted teams survive.
    A dominant performance and big win against the vermin will go along way to ease the nerves, but what price Tekkers getting a couple next weekend

  98. We have 2 3rds of a spine Richards and gana, we do not have the top piece in place yet and I’m as puzzled as Frem that Kosak is being ignored. Guzan needs to sit down for this next one, if Bunn is all we have so be it.

    I’m not despondent yet, I think we have the players just no complete spine and no real game plan to speak of. Tims bought players for all eventualitys . All parts of a puzzle that he bought in a second hand shop with no lid which shows you the complete picture. he seemed to like the amavi and bakuna supply route but they have had to defend and for most of the matches and have had no target man to hit for long periods anyhow. he also like the free flowing quartet and keep ball too but we lack a solid base for that to work off of. Its as if he’s bought players with no game plan but hedged his bets, most decent teams have a setpoint and you recognise the team by that format what’s ours does anyone including Tim know?

  99. B62- both newcastle and sunderland have tacked decent players onto a poor team whearas I think we have had to build totally from scratch we were all poor at the seasons end. All other prem teams including the newcomers had solid bases to work from a big advantage, we can only hope we find our feet quickly before the gap widens.

  100. Is TS watching the same game as us? It’s obvious that Gabby was never going to get on the end of long balls against 2 big defenders. Neither were crosses from the wing any use when only Gabby was in the middle. In consequence we were resorting to playing across the park again (shades of Lambert!).
    The introduction of Gestede at half-time made an improvement.
    I agree that Westwood loses any drive when not paired with a midfield ball winner to cover his mistakes.
    I’ve got to the point where I don’t care about Tuesday; just use it to blood some of the new players. I agree with Mark that TS needs to sort out some defensive strategies to offset the attacking ones that break down.

  101. One worrying thing is Tim a has made the best of others teams in his career including Lamberks but
    never built his own from scratch I presume. Lamberk did the same in his first 2 seasons with us but at least had done it at at some level before. How crucial that experiance is we are about to find out.

  102. I’m not sure how much Sherwood has had to do with the recruitment this summer. There has been a massive turnover of playing staff, we seem to lack balance in our purchases and seem to have rushed in to the French league with both feet. I’m not sure a side or team has been built, just mass recruitment and I don’t believe Tim got his preferred targets like Begovic, Heaton Adebayor etc, although he did wax lyrical about Gestede( not seen anything yet to warrant it tho). I honestly can’t see how Tim is going to fasten a competitive side from what we have when he relies on the likes of Westwood, Gabby, Guzan, Richardson Hutton etc.

  103. I see that on Vital Villa, the poll for man-of-the-match indicates that Gil was by far the best player Villa had out of a largely unimaginitive bunch. And that bunch seems to include Grealish who only gets 2% of the vote.

    As I was in London with my son and granddaughter I didn’t see the match, but the little I saw on MotD didn’t fill me with any great enthusiasm about their effort nor the play. If the whole match was like that it must (as Jon Fear reports) have been pretty dire.

    So, it seems that we still have the same malaise that has existed this past 4+ years. Players no longer seem to want to stand up and be counted. No character.

    However, if anyone is going to get them steamed up, I would have thought Tim will. I therefore still retain a chunk of patience.

  104. Jl I’m in the same boat as you didn’t see it. from what I have gathered grealish was tidy in midfield but indecisive in his crossing, delaying too long etc. How much of that is lack of midfield runners into the box something gana does and I hope Vertoute will is anyones guess. I expect wba packed defence didn’t help.

    GG can’t be far off returning and would like to see him given a chance. We have also sent Calder out on loan, from what I saw he’s exactly what we lack a strong no nonsense midfielder in the Toure mould. I hope he has a successful time out on loan although he is only 19.

  105. when I think of the players we have bought the thing that sticks out is they all scored goals. most of those goals look to of come on the counter or at least when there opposition were in disarray and there was plenty of room. The pace we attack at against packed defences isn’t working or at very least the way we approach the game isn’t and probably doesn’t suit the personal.

  106. For those that didn’t see the game, you are the lucky ones , it was a turgid, lacklustre affair. We looked like 11 strangers playing without instruction or a game plan. I would go as far as saying Lambertesqe. WBA were poor but didn’t have to be anything else to turn over a pathetic Villa side. If we play like that Tuesday Blues will have a field day. We never looked like breaking them down, all you need to beat Villa is patience and organisation, we will give the opposition chances whilst creating very few and the ones we do create we don’t have a striker to put away.
    Today’s result at Anfield has done us no favours with Norwich gaining a valuable point, meaning Liverpool will come flying out of the blocks Saturday .

  107. Liverpool Are garbage. 5 without a win, there fans want BR gone for playing dull football as well

    But don’t worry- Aston Helping hand soft touch collapse with ease no game plan Villa are coming into town. Pool will score 3 or 4 with free flowing football with Sturbridge getting 3 of them after 6 months out

    It’s what we do

  108. B62- the worrying thing is we couldn’t get the ball of WBA for most the first half. Anti football Pullis didn’t need to get his team out of first gear to win the game

  109. Frem we looked lost and lacked intensity from the off, WBA could have been 2-0 up before they scored, if they hadn’t have put there chances straight at Guzan .Tuesday is now even bigger, the pressure on Sherwood will increase 10fold if we lose to Small Heath.

  110. It will indeed. There was booing when Bacuna came on. A few fans have already turned, a lot more will of the Scum of the earth do us as well

    I personally won but understand people who will.

    TS isn’t doing him self any favours by playing Gabby, Westwood and Guzan. It’s looks like our strikers are s**te although I’d like to see Ayew play from the start alongside Rudy who I think better than just a big lump

    It’s scary how good Watford look. All 4 of there strikers would walk Into our side, same as Bournemouth’s and even Jerome at Norwich

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