Back in action tonight following a long weekend. Whether having the QPR match postponed turns out to be a blessing or not remains to be seen. It certainly congests the upcoming stretch, but it looks like we might possibly have Jack Grealish available, as well as Albert Adomah and Axel Tuanzebe.
I might not be too excited about having a young loanee back, but the kid’s a good player and provides an option we need. Maybe not tonight, but having all these players back in training is good. There’s not long to go, and we need a full squad to either capture second or win through the playoffs.
Right now, I wouldn’t necessarily be looking forward to facing Fulham in the playoffs. I’d much rather be safe and watching with those with detached interest.
Of course, a lot can happen. It always does with Villa, certainly, and obviously a number of other teams.
Sunderland host us tonight on the heels of two consecutive draws, and three in five sandwiching a couple of defeats. Steve Bruce has been respectful, and probably should be. The Black Cats may be sitting bottom of the table, but they’re got a lot to play for, and with Chris Coleman, no fool at the helm. Safety is not out of reach, and they’ll be wanting a result as much as we.
In short, I’d expect a difficult match, and will take three points whichever way they come. A draw is better than a defeat, but having Fulham four points behind is much better than just two.
Obviously my main concerns are whether Jack and Albert will feature, and whether they’re fully recovered. Villa seem to have been patient with injuries…though they really shouldn’t have let Kodjia go off on international duty after just starting to play his way back into fitness following the nasty ankle injury. Water under the bridge, certainly, but still. We need to be equal parts cautious and brave with injuries from here on out.
Even if we’re not sweating whether the duo will re-aggravate anything or give themselves some other troubles compensating for an injury that isn’t fully healed, we’ve no idea whether either will be at their best if they do play. Hasn’t been the world’s longest layoff for either, but, again, you never know.
So, it’s an interesting evening ahead at the Stadium of Light. Villa need to find a way to win. Won’t call it ‘must-win’ just yet, but I’d hope the players are seeing it that way and take Coleman’s advice and get on the Black Cats early, see if a bit of nerves creep in.
As the debate about six-pointers rages on, this is clearly a case where you’re looking at getting the points you’d like to think you could count on from a team not up around you in the chase. They all count.
Over to you.
The Author
John Clark
John is co-owner of AVL, and has followed the Villa since the '70s. A journalist by trade, he is, by most accounts, a very nice person. You can follow me on Twitter @JClarkKohoutek. It's an astonishing experience. Or a complete waste of time.Comments 182
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Ta JC
Thanks Jc Bruce might be trying to lessen the crowds reaction to a former managers return who’s stay was less than stellar. Don’t know what to expect with players back but suspect it will be a restrained away day counter attack affair .
There is some logic to to those so called 6 pointers, swap the wins against the bottom four for the losses against the other top 5 clubs and as if by magic we are 1 point behind Cardiff and 7 off wolves with the same points, if only it was all that simple eh 🙂 Be greedy and add a few more wins we’d be wolves .
This is a must win as they all are though from now on
2-0 villa
Darren:
Failing that, you are all a bunch of s**ts, just like me
A brilliant riposte! Er, assuming “s**ts” stands for ”
In your research into Billesley, is their social comment from occupants that showed home owners looked at their renting neighbours differently?
No, none of that. The people that bought their houses came from the same background as everyone else and just mucked in. With possibly one or two exceptions.
In fact Billesley should be regarded as a successful community project i.m.o. There were quite a few high achievers from there, including several millionaires who did not forget their roots. One of whom became quite close to George Bush snr., though I’m not sure whether that is a recommendation! Also a widely-acclaimed children’s writer (W J Corbett) and several others who could be mentioned.
Jasper Carrott broke his first guitar string in Billesley too, though he comes from Acocks Green.
John – thanks for the write-up.
Some comment about Richards and Gabby here…
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-richards-gabby-agbonlahor-14373969
This was posted after this new one came up.
Vive la difference!
Darren
thanks for paragraph 1 – all the same under the skin [as long as we don’t mix & match]. still cant do emojis…
We always were convinced that we could will the ball in the net, & if we were of one mind we would win.
Veering between apprehension & optimism for tonight
Mark
Had a pal who used to have robins land on his fingers all the time.
Yes still have a tendency where if people insist on telling me to turn right, then I’ll turn left etc, it runs very deep.
yeah, spending a lot of my early youth in Birmingham’s first multi cultural ghetto [where council houses could not be bought, & very few would have wanted them], different planet to Billesley where my ex wife’s parents gravitated to from Balsall Heath when the father in law was promoted to management in British Gas [shudder].
But the music was good – bluebeat & ska, along with southern soul, R & B & mkodern jazz, & the goat curries great, & a lot of naughty people about.
Ghetto thinking was that people with a job & money from there usually were the nouveau riche, the biggest enemy of the working class being the working class.
Many with a job & no money just kept their heads down
Those with no job but money… well I leave it to the imagination.
The main job for a 16 yr old was the factory, the building trade, a milkman or the army, where a few learned to play sax in the army band & came out again & joined a band, ‘Locomotive’ being one.
Suffice it to say, instead of banning the whores for showing up the neighbourhood, we had to rescue them from being seriously damaged, & so on, but it was as per normal on the street – different attitude with plenty of escape routes on foot, Aston at that time was worse, & was more criminally oriented.
If it wasn’t bikers, it was west indian pimps.
If it did nothing else it provided a long lasting dislike of petit bourgois mentality.
Recommend the french film from the 70’s ‘the discrete charms of the bourgoisie’ directed by Luis Bunuel who also made ‘Belle de Jour’ in 1967, the title that is quoted so much of late.
As for tonight, as Plug said, it should be interesting & indicative as to how Bruce sets us up & who plays, & I just hope he doesn’t go defensive, & that we start with intensity.
Can you get Radio WM where you are?
Mark: [previous thread] “it could also be seen as automatically putting your view in the position of being the correct one? hence the misunderstandings.”
_Please forgive me for saying but that’s exactly how your comment comes across to me … and possible r0bb0. Certainly to Old Villan.
But when it comes down to science/spiritual issues I don’t put across my view but that of the greatest persons that have walked this earth in terms of raising the evolution of man.
Interestingly, in Sanathana Dharma (essentially Hinduism) the great scientific discoveries of thousands of years ago were achieved in the climate of spirituality and science cross-fertilising (as it were). Similarly during the great Islamic period that stretched for pretty well a thousand years.
It’s only in western science (that built from Hindu/Islamic findings) and academia that we have seen study developing as a separate entity from the spiritual, and thus has been more attuned to requiring physical proof. But findings in the past 100 years have caused scientists to realise that their approach needs modification.
But if they had worked from a dual spiritual-scientific standpoint to start with, perhaps we might be in a better position…
That Darwinian theory still holds sway amazes me…
IanG- yes Robins friendly little buggers, always seemed to find me when I’m fishing, they sit by the maggot box and kindly empty it for me, I don’t think anyone really likes a telling do they 🙂
JL- I’m far happier having what I’m thinking discussed with me rather than blasted with a shotgun as we all are I’m sure but as DOR said thats the written word for you, Well at least you know you, Robbo and OV can all be as equally annoying to others without meaning it as I can to you, best to get the cards on the table 😉
As far as Science goes if we have come this far in the west without pilfering the information field (as far as we know and its doubtful we haven’t) we must be a fairly bright lot, maybe thats evolution at work independent of the past? Doesn’t mean we aren’t crap at some things or a danger to ourselves and the planet but we are not all bad as the past appears to have been not all good.
Loads of things are questioned I just don’t think you will see it abroad until proven beyond doubt because its all attached to money concerns and reputations, I suppose moral concerns can be just as big a constraint (not a bad thing) to someone determined to prove something.
As far as Gabby and Richards are concerned I feel for them as I know how I’d feel in their place, I’m afraid Bruces door would have my knuckles indented in them by now from the knocking. Doesn’t however mean I think they are up to much but fair play to them.
Mark,
I take your point about progress in science – that actually almost goes without saying, we’ve all experienced its benefits I’m sure.
But do we know how to deal with it? Are we wise enough? Probably not.
And do we ignore the clues that lie within spiritual teachings? Yes, mostly.
Take CERN for example. There’s a case of taking chances on the future of the Earth with impunity.
Yes JL playing with fire is what scientists do, pesticides come to mind, lets blanket kill the very things we depend on, the old saying curiosity killed the cat could well be our future or lack of more precisely, some mistakes are tough to come back from.
One thing that slipped my mind is Grabben, recently ex Sunderland loanee, I wonder how the fans will greet him 🙂
Maybe you have to question the wisdom of God for giving a 1 year old a chemistry set for his birthday?
jl
when has ov ever put in a post about football,all he does is moan at me mar k and ian g posts,and this they agree with me so we must all be right and use that dont are wrong is nonesense
expect bruce to park the bus early tonight ,,sunderland are good side hard place to come according to bruce
The team:
Johnstone; Elmohamady, Chester, Terry, Taylor; Snodgrass, Whelan, Hourihane, Adomah; Grabban, Hogan.
Jack o0n the bench.
Decent enough looking team hope it does the business looks a 442? my usual question mark against Wheelan (here comes a wheelan hat-trick) but we are facing the mighty Sunderland can’t be to careful 🙂
Yeah, would just have to say I’m disappointed to see Whelan in there versus Bjarnason. Never mind being wrong, but…
The squad I forecast, but did not want…..but hopefully, Bruce will prove me wrong and the team will play a stormer, wiping the floor with Sunderland!
JL,
I am amused that you feel that Billesley was a typical council estate. You have already pointed out that it was built with houses for sale, as well as for rent. In the pre-war years, I believe there were several of these estates built by the wise city forefathers, who saw the dangers in just building for rent, a mistake made on many estates in the years following the war.
I appreciate the comments by IanG, which are on the money, and areas I knew well, while I was growing up.
I am quite happy being an ignorant s**te on here, and love my football.
Let’s just hope that the travelling support, coupled with the team, and our dear Brucie, can come away with the right result tonight.
Paul: “I am amused that you feel that Billesley was a typical council estate. “
Huh?! I didn’t use the word “typical” at all, Paul! ????????????
I was just pointi9ng out that the idea of privately-owned house on council estates started in the 1920s.
Back to tonight…
I see these are also being played:
Cardiff vs Barnsley
Fulham vs Sheff Utd
They look like comfortable home wins.
you’d think so jl although Sheff utd are 7th in the form table, Millwall are second behind Fulham!
Sunderland bottom 3 of the form table think they have a fair bit of turning it around left to do yet 🙂
I think Grabbans got no worries there are only villa fans there, ball hasn’t touched the grass yet 🙂
Not happy with whelan playing with jedinak & the viking on the bench
Can’t see what he’s going to do with the subs as the team he needs seems to be on the bench.
I’d bring on at least 4 subs, but oh dear we can only use 3, so it’ll upset the balance.
If he puts onomah on…
Hogan nearly got one, so there’s hope yet, & it’s from going forward faster.
Yeeees! Grabben 1-0 from Adomah
Hogan made the run to draw the defender & played Grabben in
Just as well with both Cardiff and Fulham winning.
… and Derby.
sunderlands keeper is hopeless should be peppering his goal but we are resorting to long ball from midfield, Grabban heads into an empty net at the back post as the keeper makes a right mess at the front post
2-0 chester HT yees
2-0 chester
2 attempts on goal resulted in 2 goals that half.
didn’t see the second as stream went down
That should be a back breaker for Sunderland.
Seems that villa are shutting down the streams on facebook but I can’t get the commentary on there own web site working and I pay for it Grrrrrr
3-0 OG VIA HOULIHANE VIA HOGAN
3-0 not sure could be hogan could be own goal
Sunderlands 3 fans are walking out
We took 1.7 thousand I think, deserve a medal.
OG now Houlihane has to get another one now.
no periscope?
Watching the Cardiff score with interest – only 2-1 up!
time to support Barnsley
Derby only drawing at QPR
Well, I’ll certainly take that. Had to have those points.
Cardiff now 3 behind Wolves with wolves playing leeds tomorrow and us on the weekend.
Jack Grealish is different gravy
IanG you have to join some Facebook groups for a stream
I could not get the Facebook stream working tonight..
Well Mr Bruce well done…..no slip ups….!!!
Three more points and keeping up with the pack, and now because of tonight’s results, we still need to win on Saturday.
Grealish and Jedinak came on as subs apparently…
weird subs we had no striker on the pitch toward the end and should of had 2 more at least
Having looked as if they had it sewn up not so long ago, Wolves are now only 3 points clear of Cardiff, albeit with a game in hand.
Derby , Bristol City, Sheffield United and Leeds have all looked strong contenders for second place at one time or another and yet none of them are nailed on even for the play offs right now.
Goes to show that the talk about the competitiveness of the Championship is not overstated.
Good to see Grealish get a bit of a run out ahead of Saturday.
Would be nice to think that Grabban and Hogan were substituted to keep them fresh for the weekend although I’m dubious that was the real reason.
If Wolves were to lose at the weekend then Cardiff would start to really believe that they could take the championship . . . oh, and it wouldn’t do us any harm either!
Great result, never out of second gear and a Leeds fan tomorrow for one night only.
Game in hand on Fulham has to be a win but the pressure is finally on Wolves and a Mark King 6 pointer on Saturday, a win would be a dent to Wolves and a boost for the pack.
Cardiff and Fulham on the pace, what a great league. I’ll miss it if we get promoted.
Have been surprised that Coleman hasn’t managed to turn Sunderland round. Just shows how hard it can be to turn round the culture and morale of a club even of the size of Sunderland once they are on the slide.
Their fans must be looking somewhat wistfully at Villa now. Grabban scoring that opening goal must have been demoralising and they probably also look back on the comparatively good times under Bruce in his short time there when he gave them their 3rd and 5th best seasons of the past 60 years.
Going back to the substitutions. . . would also be nice to think that Whelan was picked to start the game in order to keep Bjarnasen fresh for the weekend.
If that ‘was’ the real reason then I think we’d all applaud it.
Can’t see that Wolves will be able to risk resting any players, unless they take a big early lead.
Correction
Bruce only gave Sunderland their 3rd best season in the past 60 years.
He didn’t see out the the following season . . . . which was their 5th best
No, I think it’ll be Jedinak & not the viking, SB would be too cautious, but against Wolves he could be right, & if he tires then we have a good replacement.
Cam’t see Davis being picked either.
Still think that the subs were off kilter.
DOR. Was talking to a Brighton fan last week and he said that last season in the championship was the most enjoyable he can remember (despite us spoiling it at the end)
A Stoke fan friend of mine said that after several years of mid table, irrelevant mediocrity, at least this season they have something to fight for!
Yes of course we all want to be promoted but there’s no guarantee it’ll be much fun when we do.
Mark
I hope the facebook stream was better than the periscope one I saw.
Mark Regan & Gary Thompson were much better than the villa audio stream, which comes in last for me, or top as a waste of money.
Mark
re: facebook groups
I wouldn’t know where to start
r0bb0,
Have to agree. It’s fun being in a competitive league. I really have no idea how the good Doctor plans to break into the PL top 6.
Mark
Lets hope we get promoted as then there will be avfc video coverage.
But we are on sky a lot incl sat, so the usual stream suspects should be there.
JC
He doesn’t seem stupid, so probably has a plan A, B & C.
But what players & what manager etc.
I can see players having been sourced to consolidate, but who knows how it’ll all fit together, incl SB.
We will see I hope
JC
Yes I also will miss the champs if promoted, as much more inclusive with the fans, & lots of football where we can beat anyone [unlike the EPL]
IanG yes the championship is more exciting . . . . but hopefully the premiership will learn from the championship that things are made more exciting when you give 6 points for a win against top 6 teams.
r0bb0 – “but hopefully the premiership will learn from the championship that things are made more exciting when you give 6 points for a win against top 6 teams.”
I know I don’t post anymore but this made me lol! Brilliant comment 🙂
Good luck with the fallout 😉
oldvilla
Wolves playing at Leeds tonight.
Well, that gives us a 24-hour advantage for Saturday.
DOR has called it right. We strolled through last night without getting out of 2nd gear. Grabban was nailed on to get a goal against his old team. He didn’t disappoint.
JL – Still think Wolves are home and hosed? I wouldn’t want to put my house on them.
Plug,
Actually, I am shocked! 🙁 I could well be wrong. If Villa do beat ’em then it certainly becomes a mixing pot. You might well be on the ball.
Cardiff are at home to Small Heath this w/e, and at Derby the next w/e.
The boos at the end must have been like rock n roll music to SB’s ears after being hounded out of the place by some vicious crowd chanting. Wonder what the Mackem fans are thinking this morning. They are suffering the same fate as us with an American owner who is bleeding them dry. Difference being theirs has been unable to sell it.
Another American owner killing his club for money is Kroenke at Arsenal. Then there are the dildo brothers at West Ham who have asset stripped the club by selling the ground, putting them in rented accommodation and are now trying to sell up before they fall through the trap door. Locusts.
Coleman has taken on a nest of vipers at the Stadium of Light. He must be mad, putting his CV at risk like that.
Could say the same about Monk at small heath. But then again small heath have small players without ego’s and that might just suit his methods. Think he lost the dressing room at Boro’ but is quite likely to have an effect on a team full of urchins.
Back to Villa and Wolves are on the horizon. Their fans are less confident than previously. It would be a great game to win. They are beatable, we must believe we can roll them over.
Fulham are looking strong and I’m hoping that their good run does not last until the end of the season. Teams need to work out how to stop the supply lines to Mitrovich and Sess.
Cardiff keep scraping home by a single goal. The law of averages say they cannot keep doing this. I’m therefore more concerned with Fulham at this moment.
IanG- All you have to do is sign up for Facebook then I can tell you which groups to apply to, all you have to do is answer a villa related question and your in, some of the streams are very good.
Wheelan Injured, I believe he was played to calm the play down, bruce said recently how we had been more open than he liked. We played plenty of back passes to the keeper from him and Taylor, an attempt at keeping possession really. First ten was like tennis the rest like a cement mixer in the midfield from both sides. Sunderland were abysmal rather than us being fantastic but Grealish changed that even though we took the forwards off.
Robbo- glad to see your still in denial and your not bitter 😉
As for missing the champs? not for me, bring on the big boys lets see what The docs about if not we can drop back into the comfort zone of mediocrity.
Plug I think we will need to outscore rather than out defend Wolves, we tried the sit back and defend before didn’t end well. If you look at Wolves recent games gone are the 70% possession stats by them, teams are having a go and they don’t like it. Other managers have worked them out and I hope Bruce can rather than resort to sitting back, Our front five is the match of any team in the league if Grealish plays imo so I hope we are not to cautious.
JL- Cardiff have Blooes, Brentford then Derby hopefully a Banana skin in there.
Plug,
Having worked up at Sunderland, I know there are some decent supporters there.
But they seem to have the other kind too.
Thanks for the header, JC. It’s appreciated.
Shame to hear about the “locusts” and what they’re doing to English football.
Even though 3-0 and consecutive wins is pleasing, I still think the squad can still get a bit better even with the oldies and loans.
JL- I think any teams supporters can reach that point, only human.
Bruce is saying Wheelan was our best player until his calf injury, can’t say he looked it to me but hey.
Tishbola on fire in Scotland with his old boss Clarke, amazing how some managers get the best from certain players even if its an easier league, don’t think we will be seeing our £5m back though.
Anybody seen Sherwoods comments on Adama, reckons he’s ready to play for Man city also said this though.
“It was very difficult in the position we were in to give him a run in the team because he wasn’t that well respected. The biggest compliment I can pay him, if it is a compliment, is that the players didn’t want to play with him, but nobody wanted to play against him either.”
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-city-adama-traore-middlesbrough-14354000
As things stand There are a few teams coming good at the right time, we just have to be one of them from here on in. I hope we get second if not then I’d rather Fulham did as I think they are the biggest threat to us. Can’t say I’d fancy Middlesbrough now in the finals either.
Not long ago when Derby were a bigger threat I thought the pivotal games would be Fulham, Wolves and Derby But Cardiff have taken the place of Derby now. Don’t get me wrong we need to beat the lot if possible but these are/were potentially games of great significance, and I would not want to have to go to Millwall for a win last game.
After last night’s win, the conversation with my pal Mick came to mind, and everything he said appears to be spot on with Bruce, and I am feeling a lot more trusting of him. He will stick to his tried and trusted, and we are now one off that ten game run in. I am sure that his intention n will be to go for winning the Championship, and nothing less will satisfy him.
It was said a long time ago that Wolves would struggle at some point with so many Portuguese in the team, as they do not enjoy the English winter, and especially the cold, which is exactly what is happening. Our biggest threats are Cardiff and Fulham, but we need to just keep winning, and if we get the right result on Saturday, we do not want to slip up against QPR on Tuesday.
I think that is the main reason he used Whelan last night, then he could rest him against Wolves, and but for injury , he could use him again against QPR.
PP- You might be right about the weather and Wolves lets hope not as its warming up. As for Wheelan I think its quite plain he, Jedinak, Thor and potentially the Manure lad have different attributes in the same position, whatever Bruce was thinking in playing wheelan last night we play very differently depending who’s in that position, when wheelan went off the game changed, Hourihane ran riot and we could of had a lot more goals. Having said that I Don’t think that last night playing any of them would of made a massive difference to the result.
2 away wins on the spin with 7 goals scored. wow
But lets take this opportunity not to ponder why whelen plays or others fixture run ins, lets thank our lucky stars for 1 minute.
It is to the drs credit, wyness, round and bruce that we are where we are.
Take 1 look at sunderland, bottom, poisonous atmosphere, being run into the ground, half empty stadium.
That’s exactly us if we had no doc. we got close….very very close.
Andrew – very well said! That is exactly right and yes, how close did we come to being consigned to the scrapheap for many years – if not forever.
Some on this and other blogs were calling for Round, Wyness, Bruce, Calderwood and the good Dr to go earlier this season ……. but the efforts they have put in and the clearing out of rubbish from top to bottom was never going to be a quick job. And I doubt if it is finished yet but progress has been made for all to see.
And whilst I’m here – MK you were talking about robins fighting 🙂 This is fighting for territory, especially at this time of year and can end with one of the robins being killed. They can be nasty little chaps when they or their territory are threatened……..
oldvilla
Andrew: Very true.
Extended highlights:
https://www.avfc.co.uk/AVTV/2018/03/07/Sunderland%2003%20Aston%20Villa%20Extended%20highlights
I( have to say that Grabban and his body language impress me. I know that he is not an out-and-out striker but it’s he that has scored these last 3 matches and not Hogan, who continues to miss chances and generally does not look like a team man i.m.o.
Grealish looks very smooth now, doesn’t he? A different player from last season.
Andrew- we’ve come along way mate no doubt lets hope we are taking the right route though, time will tell.
Theres talk that Wolves are playing with there wage figures and in breach of FFP but hey so are we
OV- you’re not kidding little sods had each other on the deck and wouldn’t let go, Black birds and sparrows are at it to so I guess spring is here
JL- Grabbans a good player no doubt but Hogan had a part in every goal taking players away with runs. Chester sneaked into the gap left by Hogans marker, Grabban gets an easy chance at the back post as Hogan makes his run and takes the defender away and strands the keeper and its Hogans dribble that allows Hourihane to shoot for the 3rd.
If we played Grabban in Hogans position as an out and out no9 we would lose something from him I think but maybe if we played in a more fluid style he would be better suited? its a tough decision and I know he has three goals but I’m not convinced he would of done any more than Hogan has with the type of chances hogan gets in his role. Until I see him convert some half chances thats the way I see it.
Mark
Pretty much what I said before a couple of times in reply to JL, but will add that Grabben has different additional skill sets to Hogan, as he is more suited to hold the ball up, whereas Hogan is quite fast & good at being on the shoulder of the defender or going wide to collect the ball on his own.
Grabben is a bit of a poacher which means that he is suited to take opportunities emanating from Hogan or Davis, & can work the channels with the midfielders.
But Hogan’s movement is better & brings more space & opportunities for Grabben & the midfielders to score, which makes him a good team player, but as with all strikers of his type, he needs a run of goals to fine tune his goalscoring rather than just creating, but again it depends on how the ball is played to him.
Can’t see Davis getting much of a look in off the bench as things stand, as it would be a different game plan, but it is a plan B.
IanG absolutely mate, Grabban actually may bring about plan F if Hogan is dropped to accommodate. We may have to get brave and drop the DM to play both.
MK,
I should give up, as you will not change JL’s anti-Hogan stance. Most of us see the amount of work Hogan puts in without scoring, and that is what is needed, being unselfish, and helping your team mates to score. At the end of the day it is goals that are needed, and how many are lost through greedy players not making that last killer pass to a team in the clear. Townsend was guilty on Monday night and cost Palace three points..!! You see this so often from most teams, and it is where the difference is with Man City, and why they have become such prolific scorers.
United have now put a price on Sam Johnstone’s head, as they can see we are liable to win promotion, and they are asking for £6.5 m which is not unreasonable. Villa may now get him for around £5m with the usual add -ons.
Great to see Chester on top of the world after scoring his goal, and I am really looking forward to Saturday’s game.
Apparently Villa have been very successful in shutting down a lot of the illegal streams on F/B which is a pity for us here in UK, as there is no other way of us seeing the game, but I do believe that Sky are intending to change this and you will be able to view any game on Now TV in the near future.
Bruce is very happy with the role Grabban is playing, and will be a certain for Saturday, and hopefully Bjarnason will replace the injured Whelan and play alongside Hourihane.
IanG- Hogan put a good cross from the left into Grabban but he missed it, would of been hell of a goal, speaking of which Snodgrass is so left footed, he had a glorious chance late on but chose to cross to Adomah with his right rather than shoot at a virtually open goal with it 🙂
PP- lots of people calling for Grabban over Hogan shame but thats what goal scoring can do. His general play is very good though and I think we may have missed a trick by not just playing him in Jacks position against Fulham.
Paul,
Phooey! 😀
Mark: ” Grabbans a good player no doubt but Hogan had a part in every goal taking players away with runs. “
Well, you know I didn’t see that. I saw Hogan actually going for the ball from Adomah and missing it, and no-one really went with him. Nor did I see any real involvement for the third.
There’s an old saying that we only hear what we agree with.
It is possible that we mostly see what we are looking for also.
This a truism, not a chip.
The mechanics on this site are cracking up JC, as I am logged in, but it won’t post my post saying that I have to be logged in.
So now I have to log out to log in again to try again????
Then it had to ask me if I really wanted to log out???
Life is too short
I am a fan of Hogan. He is very mobile up front and that is dangerous. Don’t care who scores the goals as long as we win. Snoddy has been great with his assists. The more who score, the tougher it gets for the opposition to plan an ambush.
There is room for Hogan and Grabban up top.
Grabben has been very useful, no question. He covers a lot of ground, big. Looking a very decent acquisition, atm.
Sorry, IanG.
Not sure what that’s about. Could be a couple things. Anyone else having the same issue?
And I don’t disagree about what we see and look to see, IanG.
I find myself doing it all the time watching matches, try my best to guard against it in an effort to be objective, but…
IanG: “It is possible that we mostly see what we are looking for also.”
Exactly. There are a number of people who know that Hogan has something and want him badly to succeed. And I share that hope – but I frankly don’t see it and don’t think it’s the right thing for a team to have to play to one player’s ability.
JC: “Anyone else having the same issue?”
Nope, but sometimes I’ve not had to re-log in for days, but over the last week or so I have to log in every day. And when I do I get a blank screen and have to re-load the page – not that’s a big issue, it’s not.
Have to agree with the comments about only hearing what we want to hear, and only seeing what we want to see.
I am also certain that Bruce would not keep giving Hogan the full 90 minutes in most games, if he was not doing his job. People often don’t see the amount of work that players do off the ball, as well as on the ball. I try to keep track of some of our ex players that are still making it in the big time, like Lowton and Westwood at Burnley, who are both still playing, and Lowton is getting great revues from his play. As has already been mentioned by me and MK, I think, Adama Traore is now getting good reports, and can only get better now he has a manager that will bring out the best in him.
Just watched the Sheffield Wednesday game again, where young Adam Reach was very impressive and Luke Joao, another Portuguese lad at 24yrs old and 6’4″, not a bad player. Wonder hat their worth will be come the end of the season?
I don’t have any log in issues, but would love to get my avatar back once more…!!!
PP
I gave up trying to create one.
JL my comment wasn’t about you, or hogan as such.
I think you just proved the point.
IanG,
I have had one last try…!!
Paul: “I am also certain that Bruce would not keep giving Hogan the full 90 minutes in most games, if he was not doing his job. “
Let’s not forget that the only true alternative he has is Davis – who has done a heck of a lot of work this season and (i.m.o.) is being rested because of the clobbering he’s received.
Bruce also knows he has spent a lot of money for Hogan so can hardly be not using him, especially when he has a lack of alternatives.
I don’t wish to seem as though I think Hogan should be dropped (partly for the above reason), but I do think he doesn’t quite have what it takes as a striker, despite his previous scoring record. Just my opinion, of course.
IanG: “my comment wasn’t about you, or hogan as such. I think you just proved the point.”
Thereby you have missed the point! 😀
I think we mostly talk on the same lines Ian, but couched in different language or with a different direction in mind.
JL,
That sounds like you believe that Bruce made a mistake, costing the club £12m………………
Paul,
Possible – but don’t tell me that every manager always gets it right. I certainly don’t think that Bruce is perfect but he’s not bad for the job at hand.
Well JL Hogan really can do no good eh 😉
As Adomahs cross comes in Hogan runs to the front post and attempts to get a head on it, he gets in front of the the CB who misjudges it (probably as Hogan narrowly misses making contact) it bounces in the area and draws another defender and the ball finally drops to Grabban with the keeper at sixes and sevens.
So take Hogan out and the CB very likely heads it away and we don’t score?
And the last one Hourihane plays the ball into hogan and he turns and takes the player on and Hourihane continues his run and picks up the scraps. None of that could of happened without Hogan being there.
Nothing to do with seeing what we want to see in this case this actually happened.
MK: “As Adomahs cross comes in Hogan runs to the front post and attempts to get a head on it,…
That’s what I said – he missed it! 😉
But don’t tell me that he deliberately dragged the defence towards himself! That patently was not the case … if the defenders were bamboozled then it was by sheer fortune as Hogan missed the ball i.m.o.
As I said before, it’s not that I am saying Hogan’s not good, more the case that I think you’re over-hyping him.
Oh, and on the third goal the defender actually prods the ball towards Hourihane away from Hogan.
Again, a mistake by Hogan.
But it worked in Villa’s favour.
These errors or inadvertent contributions still help, but they don’t justify him to be thought of as a great player.
Jl – nobody has said he doesn’t want to contact the ball but the fact he makes the runs he does produces openings is that okay? And yes sometimes he does make runs to drag the defence around it’s what forwards are taught to do.
Wolves two up, 1st goal wolves players run to the front post and Leeds go with them leaving a wolves player at the back to nod home.
They look the business and up for it
Spot on MK,
Leeds defensive marking atrocious for both goals at corners. Leeds did have a good patch and were making a game of it, but Wolves are outstanding, especially Conor Cody at the back, and very impressed with Bailey Peacock, the young Leeds goalkeeper, who has been outstanding!
Hope that’s cursed wolves 🙂
PP- wolves are dangerous at corners they are some big lads. Bit ominous with our record defending set pieces, if we have a hope it’s grealish I feel.
Excellent display by Wolves with Benik Afobe back on form too.
We are going to have a real game on our hands, needing at least 110% from manager, team, and fans, if we are going to get a result.
As you say, MK, they are a team of big lads, superb at set pieces, and with a very solid defence.
Jl
I don’t think anyone is or has said that Hogan is a great player, but the potential to be a good one, & the potential to be effective in the EFL & the premiership, yes, depending on his progress as with all players.
We don’t really have a great player, but we do have some with potential, & also some good players.
Could it be better?
Yes of course, but we have the players we have & the manager & staff that we have until the end of the season, & opinions on how best to utilise them are just that, opinions.
This doesn’t at all undercut what we may think could be better, & neither is criticism disloyal as some seem to think.
Many of us gave our preferences at the appropriate times, but that was then & this is now, where we have to support more in the moment & discuss different aspects as we will, & one aspect is never the whole.
Neither does criticism imply cliques.
Neither are we feral cats fighting over the right to procreate.
So as DOR said, we really are probably full of sh*t, the baggage we carry with us.
Mark
I am quietly apprehensive, & even if we are a different team to earlier when we played them, we really need to take the game to them in a disciplined way, with intensity & energy, otherwise we will be on the back foot until they score.
The fans at the game need to give them the energy & added belief.
It is a derby even if we’ve forgotten what this one feels like.
SB really needs to get a more balanced team, bench & set up than the last game
I think Bjarnason’s energy and pace are necessary for Wolves. So if the rest Thor, play Whelan theory is correct, then great. I can also see Bruce putting Jedi in for height and strength, though.
Obviously Jack is the big difference for us. He oozed class a few times when he came on yesterday.
Also wondering if he’ll go one up top with Grabban. Wish we could play a 4-6-1.
I should also mention that I’ll be taking a holiday next week. It just occurred to me that I won’t necessarily be able to post anything following Wolves until the following Sunday.
There’s advance planning for you. I’m hoping I’ll be able to watch the Wolves match on the flight.
So. If anyone feels like writing up a match report or anything else, please let me know, and I’ll try and facilitate getting that up.
Likewise any other commentary. I know folks are a bit shy, I can put it under a pen name. But given the level and depth of commenting, I also know there are plenty of worthy contributors out there.
MK: “nobody has said he doesn’t want to contact the ball but the fact he makes the runs he does produces openings is that okay?”
Yes, but Hogan was signed as a goalscorer not as an assister … and any assists he does make seem to be mainly by mistake rather than intention. After all, any player could have been where Hogan was in that last match to do the same things.
IanG: “I don’t think anyone is or has said that Hogan is a great player, but the potential to be a good on…”
I did not mean “great” in a literal sense but to the degree which some seem to be lauding him.
As to potential, I can’t see it. For me he doesn’t have enough to be good in the Premiership.
But that’s just my opinion as to how I see it … perhaps I might end up by being wrong, but having seen so many fine strikers play at VP, in comparison I don’t see that much in Hogan.
IanG- We can’t discount how players perform under different managers/styles either, Hogan has scored freely elsewhere but Grabban less so in the last two seasons at least and has been loaned out a lot why? he looks a good player, He’s also 5 years older than Hogan with at least 7 more years experience at this level and higher, as Hogan was out for 2 seasons.
Brentford played 352 when Hogan was banging in the goals so being the solo striker likely doesn’t suit him as much as it doesn’t Grabban.
Why are we playing 1 up top? because we like to hedge our bets with a DM in front of the Defence who does not advance much in midfield, virtually 5 at the back, 4141. Thor makes it more of a 451 with his mobility and energy but I suspect Bruce blames that for conceding (recent comments) hence his absence, shame because the switch hasn’t stopped us conceding, we conceded 3 in 3 games with thor 1 an own goal and scored 7, conceded 5 in 5 without him in DM and scored 10. Of course we have missed other players but the defensive stance hasn’t made a massive difference, we can still be iffy at the back.
JL- “any player could have been where Hogan was in that last match to do the same things.”
but they were not were they? and it does not mean they would of made the identical runs either. I don’t believe Davis is left out for any reason more than Hogan suits the formation, Davis was used to hold the ball up after we launched it, not Hogans thing.
the so called lauding may be in exasperation to the amount you slate him which is equally OTT.
MK,
I’m afraid as usual you don’t seem to grasp my meaning!
And in any case I was not doing a comparison with Grabban. I am merely looking specifically at Hogan, and, as I say, he does nothing more for me than any other player might do and misses quite a few chances. For £12m that’s a lot for someone who I see as misfiring.
But as I also say, it’s just my opinion (the way I see it).
Now he’lll probably score a hat-trick against Wolves! 😀 Boy we need him to.
JL- Your meaning is perfectly grasped its not rocket science 😉 You think he’s not very good as a CF and misses to many chances.
I however see all the other work he does and how little real service he actually gets and that he is not the typical 6 foot plus target man villa have. John Carew would do far better in Bruces style. If he was missing really good chances I’d agree but he gets mostly half and quite difficult ones for his attributes, the ball played in to him from behind at the right edge of the 6 yard box on his right side for instance.
As for scoring, he could of taken Grabbans penalty and Grabbans second was from a very good double save could easily have gone in from Hogan or JT, sods law it didn’t, of course it adds fire to his apparent inability to score but hey fine margins.
So far Grabban has had the good fortune of picking up the scraps where as Hogan is the man tasked with causing the defence problems while others steal in. It isn’t a typical way of playing but we only have Davis who’s got height and size who has missed some sitters, still his overall play suited the team at the time. Grabban has had the freedom to play as he see’s so far and I guess we won’t have a comparison until they switch roles. The way the Wolves match is looking I would not be surprised if we play on the counter with Grabban at the top.
As PP said if he’s useless and not fit for purpose its someones gaff for buying him, the fact RMC is also deemed useless after being the champs best player for the previous 3 seasons and multiple 20+ goal man gives a big hint as to who that might be and why.
I will add Bruce talked about Playing 442 before this season started as his go to formation and we lost Kodjia who can play no9, it wouldn’t be a leap to think that that was the plan Kodjia and Hogan up top.
MK,
Look – I’ve already said I have a p.o.v. – and you clearly have yours and the two have already been clearly marked as been divergent. So it’s a bit pointless in pursuing this.
As I said, he’ll probably now go and score a hat-trick on Saturday, so then everyone will be happy! 🙂
JL- one POV being I don’t understand what your saying 😉
Looks like the wolves thing is hotting up after leeds had a moan about the quality of player they can apparently afford to pay, Wyness has had a dig on twitter
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/aston-villa-figure-delivers-cryptic-update-that-will-also-intrigue-wolves-fans/
Jumping in with both feet on the Hogan debate, over his time with us and most of our strikers, and entirely opinion based as opposed to some footballing fount of knowledge, we’ve not played to the strengths of many of our strikers.
Kodija was successful thru ability and his own selfishness, but I note JL doesn’t wish to place too much emphasis on assists but I’d suggest many fluffed lines by Kodija would have seen Villa better rewarded if he’d passed the ball.
RMC and Hogan, I’d class in the same bracket, square pegs being pushed into round holes, RMC went off the rails and reacted badly to being forced to play in a system that didn’t suit him. To Hogan’s credit, he’s persisted in a system that doesn’t play to his strengths, got some crucial goals and displays an intelligence as a striker in making important runs that tend not to be picked up on which can sway opinion on overall effectiveness. Both have good pedigrees prior to joining us so it can’t be down to the players to be suddenly not good enough for the Villa.
Davis – a battering ram of a striker who takes a lot of punishment but I haven’t seen him enough to figure out is he any good as a finisher or just a battering ram to open defences, love to see him as part of a two with Hogan floating around him (Quinn/Phillips partnership springs to mind).
Feel free to dissect my opinion as it’s the only one I have 🙂
Darren,
I totally agree with you. Again, my words have been misterpreted! 😀
My point about Hogan though is twofold:
1. His reputation was that of a prolific striker, not as an ‘assistant’ 😉
2. It seems to me that you have to play to his strengths to get the produce (an idea that I don’t hold with – but maybe that’s just me). But I don’t see that he has that many strengths other than when he does manage to score. He doesn’t actually do very much on the ‘assist’ stakes, despite protests that he does from some quarters.
Oh, I do agree that Hogan makes those ‘runs’, but I see that in most strikers anyway – nothing unusual about that for me.
And there’s one more thing – a traditional top Villa striker has been able to head the ball, in outfield and around the goal. In the outfield Hogan he is pretty awful, and at goal he doesn’t get too many.
But, again, that’s my personal preference showing in the type of stri9ker I like to see. And despite what’s being said about Davis, he’s got a lot good ball control ability and I think he’ll ultimately be a much better proposition.
Dor- sadly I can’t disagree with you and have a discussion, I’d equate buying hogan to a cycle team employing a decent rider and giving him a penny farthing.
JL- forget hogan ask yourself this , this season grabban can’t stop scoring last two seasons scored very few is it because he’s a bad player or poor finisher? Or suddenly a good one?
Jl- 3 ? out of 5 of hogans recent goals with his head
And which strikers on our books make those runs? Davis doesn’t imo grabban? Not seen it, rmc and rhm? Unknown but rmc similar to hogan but slower.
Forgot kodjia, but again doesn’t play like hogan
MK,
He may have scored 3 of his “recent” 5 goals with his head (er, except he’s only scored goal 1 in 8 matches, a tap-in!) but what of all those others he’s put wide or over? Gerry Hitchens would have buried most of ’em!! 😀
Davis will show more as he matures. Just watch and see.
Mk,
On Grabban, I think you’ll find his always done well in the Championship. If my memory serves me right it’s in thePrem he’s not found his feet.
Talking about hogans runs has got me thinking, just from recent memory I seem to remember our strikers all heading for the same post in the penalty area, recently there appears a definite shift to one to the front one, a player arriving centrally and a late run at the back post.
Jl- he’s done well at some clubs not others, was a reading on loan recently got 4, Norwich 12 both in the champs Norwich and Bournemouth in prem poor return, at Sunderland he scored 3 in first 2 games then went 10 games without scoring it happens. Best season was in the very good Bournemouth side that got a shed load of goals in winning the champs. Spent a fare while in div 1 but no great shakes overall.
Maybe he’s at the height of his powers and experience some players do that late flurry. Don’t care as long has he has a positive effect for us
It’s funny, I tend to rate players more positively when they seem to be in the shadows a bit.
Assists IMO are just as important as goals. The ability to run interference is an important attribute that not to many players have. Being a threat is a good thing as it keeps defences honest.
Being unable to fit in isn’t just the players fault. The manager has to take some of the blame. You can’t go buying talent and not use said talent as they were intended in seasons past. Bruce is terrible in that respect-he can’t adjust his thinking to incorporate the talent he purchased. He wants them to change to his way of thinking. And that won’t happen over night. To me his buys are scattergun hoping that someone will fit in right away and shine. It appears Grabban is that man ATM.
I’m happy that Villa is vying for first but I won’t lay that entirely at Bruce’s feet.
Ian,
Agreed that assists are as important, it’s just that I don’t see Hogan doing much of that either – except by luck. Maybe I’ve got an anti-watching thing that gets switched on when he’s playing! 😀
Glad you all agree with me!
Bar JL of course who agrees then caveats a non agreement & he doesn’t seem to be able to change that habit.
I also remember Gerry Hitchins & others, the game itself was completely different then, & more self policing, as was society, but not necessarily better.
It doesn’t compare much to the modern game outside of the basics, so for me I’d rather not play a history card, otherwise I may live too much in the past & mix it all up & make a nonsense soup with a vile taste.
Had a good old look through Grabban and Hogans goals for other clubs and they both score some cracking goals. What becomes very obvious though is the time and space they are in while receiving the ball for most of them. Hogans particularly are from him running off the players shoulder, for us he gets flagged offside in that sort of situation and the vast majority of chances created are from crosses or dead ball. We just don’t move the ball quick enough nor see the pass quick enough to exploit Hogan, Maybe that would prove equally true for Grabban if up top alone although I’d judge him more athletic. Hogan with Doyle-hayes and O’hare in the cups is the closest I have seen to a service he’d thrive on, good news for the future maybe.
Ian
‘The ability to run interference’
Yes to do that you have to use intelligence, subtlety & skill, as otherwise in football & rugby it’s obstruction, & soon sussed out by the referee & penalised.
Absolutely agree that good ones are quite rare.
It may also be that in football as there are so few, the impact from that perspective may be mistaken for a cr*p footballer.
As an ex rugby player as well, although we used different language, the tactic was always a positive one, & affected how the opposition played, [kept them honest as you put it].
I could always see this & appreciate it & play off it, but could never do it.
In our football that ilk of player are a right nuisance & other players tend to like playing off them as they get the plaudits.
MK: “We just don’t move the ball quick enough nor see the pass quick enough to exploit Hogan,…”
That is probable … but this is back to the business of looking to, and playing to Hogan’s strengths isn’t it, which I suspect might mean that other potential scorers don’t get a look-in.
IanG,
I enjoy your comments about me, Ian. However, my Dad advised me never to become one of the sheep when I was a boy, so I’ve always followed that doctrine since! 😀
But yes, *of course* then game has changed since Hitchens… but *not* the ability to connected your head to the ball and put it in the net, for goodness sake! 🙂
Dublin and Angel could do it as well … And Benteke wasn’t bad, was he? Though he’s a mite taller than Hogan – and that I think could be one of the reasons why Hogan is not so good. Mind you, Hitchens was an inch shorter and yet seemed to be 6′ 6″ when he got up.
And wot about Tony Hateley….!
Ian- the modern remedy to ‘The ability to run interference’ appears to be fall over at the slightest touch 🙂
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
We call them sheeple here.
Ian- Baaaaaa
Hogan Brentford goals, should be entitled type of goals you won’t see him score for Villa. note Brentford don’t fire it at his head much a big clue, also note Steve Bruce see’s fit to largely aim it at his head?! Despite this he has still scored half his goals for us with his HEAD., Baaaaaaaaa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodouYWs49Y
I can’t see SB selecting a side against Wolves based on all out attack. Think the game at Leeds last night has probably made him revert to type and opt for a compact set up so we don’t cop a hiding. Which means we will probably lose unless Grealish produces some magic. Such a shame, because Leeds were so open, most teams might have filled their boots.
The good news is Whelan is out. The very good news is he will be out for some time according to SB. So I would put the viking back where he belongs. But I’m guessing he’ll run with Jedi to counter the set piece threat, albeit we will then be exposed against their pace.
As I see it, I’d go 4-5-1 for this 1 game and break with pace. The middle 5 of Grealish, Adomah, Snoddy, Hourihane and Viking. I’d ask Hogan to run his nuts off first half and then ask the same of Grabban in the second. I’d also have O’Hare on the bench for when the midfield tires.
My real wish is 4-4-2 but are we strong enough in the middle against Wolves? Thoughts of others are welcome.
JL,
I must put you right on Gerry Hitchens. Like many centre forwards that have come to Villa, he was awful to start with, and got the name “Kick over the bar Hitchens”, as that is where so many of his shots landed, but then of course with time and experience, he improved, and as soon as he became great we sold him, as we always have done…!!! It’s the Villa way…!!!
PP
Spot on! Baaaaa
Plug
My thinking exactly, which means it probably won’t happen
Paul,
Nothing to put me right on, my sunny friend! The issue with Hitchens was not that he didn’t have the ability to start with but that he was serving his National Service until 1959 which deprived him of being with the team for long periods for training. Then what happened – 26 goals the next season and 42 in his last season.
Yes, Villa have always sold their best since the War. Mainly because those who did have real talent couldn’t see the club getting anywhere. Though Andy Gray wasn’t so wise, was he?
Plug: “I can’t see SB selecting a side against Wolves based on all out attack. Think the game at Leeds last night has probably made him revert to type and opt for a compact set up so we don’t cop a hiding. “
All-out attack is fine for those clubs who play it as their natural game. But you can’t in all seriousness opt for that approach one game and not the others.
I don’t see it as you do. Yes, SB plays a “containment” game, but uses a defence as much as possible to spring into attack. We’ve scored an average of more than 2 goals a game since the start of the year, so that’s hardly playing a defensive game, but neither has it been a truly attacking game.
Against Wolves we truly need to be vigilent. I think we have the ability to win by a tight margin – but it means concentrating for all the 90 minutes to get it as I see it.
MK: “Despite this [Hogan] has still scored half his goals for us with his HEAD.”
Half of his goals in the Championship? I think not. as I recall he has scored 1 or perhaps 2 of his 5 (*five*) with his head only one of which you could say was a fine header.
And he’s still only scored 1 in the last 7, and that a tap-in. I reckon he’s missed 2 or 3 scorable chances per game in those 7. Let’s say 2 per game: that’s 14 chances gone awry in that time, headers and ground chances, most of them off-target as well.
And we need to play to his strengths? If he can’t score 3 or 4 of 14 chances then there’s something wrong i.m.o.
Saturday’s Team?
Johnstone; Elmohamady, Chester, Terry, Taylor; Whelan, Hourihane, Adomah, Snodgrass; Grealish; Grabban
As suggested in…
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-v-wolves-tv-14383082
But as Whelan is out (surely?) then that must mean the Jedi in that slot.
JL
With the season getting to the business end, we can look at the remaining games like a foot race that has just entered the back straight on the final lap. Wolves are well down that straight, Cardiff have opened up a lead on us and Fulham are breathing down our necks. Time to step on the gas or start thinking about 4th. Or it could be a car race with Fulham’s headlights filling our rear mirror and Cardiff’s exhaust pipe some way ahead. If we want to finish in front of them, we need to step on the gas. Why I don’t think more of the same from us will cut it is because the other teams will step up their game. I may be wrong of course but it’s a risk.
SB said Whelan has done his calf and is definitely out this weekend and he further stated that he will be missing for some weeks. His words, not mine.
Andy Gray was the best striker Villa have had in my time. £110,000 from Dundee Utd aged 21 if my memory is holding up. I heard a rumour (and I have no idea how accurate this is) that he got involved in the co ownership of a nightclub and for whatever reason needed some more cash. He asked Saunders for it and when he refused AG suggested his cut from a move would be an alternative. So Villa sold him to Wolves and Ron Saunders purchased Peter Withe from Newcastle as a replacement stating he was less injury prone than Gray.
I attended the 3 LC finals against Everton at Wembley, Hillsborough and Old Trafford. Gray never got a sniff in any of the games. After the decisive game at OT I mused at the time that either Gray had gone off the boil or McNaught, the Everton centre back was magnificent. Saunders bought him a few months later.
John,
I do not like having to correct our favourite historian, but Gerry Hitchens had completed his National Service when he signed for Villa in December 1957
From his biography:
“After signing for the Bluebirds, the former England international played two games at the end of the 1954/55 season, scoring a goal that kept them in the old First Division.
Hitchens would go on to score 53 goals in 105 appearances at Ninian Park, before completing his national service and moving on to Aston Villa in 1957”
This concurs with my own memory of him signing, and in the article in the Sports Argus, it confirmed that he had recently completed his National Service.
Plug,
You are right Gray was signed as you say, and profitably sold to Wolves for £1.49m and later returned to Villa in1985, scoring some important goals, before moving on to the Baggies, finally being assistant to Ron Atkinson in 1991/2 season. You are also spot on with us signing McNaught because he shut Gray out in those LC Finals, which I was at too..!!
Paul,
The book is in error, I’m afraid. He finished his NS in 1959. Fact.
Paul,
No, my research (including the Sports Argus) confirms what I’ve just said.
Plug/Paul,
Andy Gray left Villa stating that Villa were going nowhere and saw triumphs coming at Wolves. He, like Gidman (another who went about that time), was not on good terms with Ron Saunders.
JL- “Half of his goals in the Championship? I think not. as I recall he has scored 1 or perhaps 2 of his 5 (*five*) with his head only one of which you could say was a fine header.”
Oh dear you haven’t read what I have written John 😉 and you are wrong he has scored three headed goals, half of the 6 championship goals he’s scored for “us” in total, headed Goals against, Bristol, Forest and Barnsley.
Your idea of what is a chance vs a Half chance is different to mine and I have watched an awful lot of the games via tele and streams this season not just listened on the radio or watched highlights. As you can’t recall how many of his goals were headers you don’t appear to be a very reliable source as to how many real chances he’s had either with your bias imo.
As for fine headers the ball in has to right, if its to high then even a giant won’t direct it, John terry being a great header of the ball has one goal, Chester has 2, Jedinak? can’t be bothered to troll through games but we haven’t scored many “Fine headers” at all for the amount of crossing we do. You might as well whip a Mule for not being a horse as far as Hogan goes.
why buy a player that is not known for his heading ability? Davis’s heading ability is no better imo either, Grabban from what I have seen of his goals doesn’t score with his head much. Villa will have watched the same footage I have and much more and watched him in games too yet here he is with his non heading head being serviced poorly by the manager that bought him. Why not buy a great header of the ball? all this leads me to believe that Bruce wants to play on the break which does not need a lot of heading.
Paul,
To provide further proof, here’s an article that mentions Hitchens playing for the Army in 1958.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-post-dundee/20170115/284258119950786
Plug- I agree mate we have to get back to thor at DM and getting forward quickly or we won’t get past wolves unless Grealish pulls it out of the bag, but wolves have another level of player we will see, the three games thor played there we actually conceded the same and scored more but your right Bruce has commented that he thinks we are to open, One poor game against the rubbish Sunderland doesn’t make Wheelan the answer in my book.
More on the Wolves player thingy, teams are both right and jealous I think in this matter.
https://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2018/3/8/17097592/aston-villa-fans-should-not-concern-themselves-with-wolves-off-the-pitch-dealings
MK,
OK, 6 Championship goals since he arrived but 5 this season.;
If he has scored 3 from headers (one of which was probably the first he scored?) then so what?
The point I was really making was that Hogan’s record does not up to scrutiny as far as Villa are concerned.
If a decent striker has 14 chances then you’d expect him to score 25% (as I said). No-one can say he’s not had good chances or quite a number of 60-40 chances.
Anyway, you think one way and I think the other. No point in further discussion.
I hope he does score a hat-trick on Saturday nevertheless! 😀
Paul,
This is a nice summary of Hitchens’ career, including mention of his time in the Army while at Villa:
The late Cannock-born forward who died tragically in a charity game aged 48 maintained his formidable goal-scoring record throughout a 15 year professional career. Hitchens’ first big break arrived in 1955 when a move to Cardiff from non-league Kidderminster Harriers saw him forge a lethal partnership with Trevor Ford, the former Aston Villa striker, helping the Bluebirds secure the Welsh Cup in 1956. After bagging 17 goals in 13 cup fixtures for Cardiff, it was Hitchens’ turn to shine at Villa, who were so impressed by his form they sold free-scoring Derek Pace to help fund the transfer. It took Hitchens a while to settle as he undertook national service with the Army but he later developed into one of Villa’s most prolific ever strikers. Two FA Cup semi-final appearances, the Second Division title and 96 goals later, Inter Milan were knocking on the door. Perhaps it was the 10 goals in three games he bagged for Villa in 1959 that first caught the eye. Or the sumptuous angled long-range volley after pinching the ball off Blackpool’s Jimmy Armfield during his last season with Villa. Hitchens saw out the remainder of his career, beginning in 1961, over nine years in Serie A with Inter Milan, Torino, Atalanta and Cagilari. Unfortunately, it spelt the end of a seven game, five goal England spell as Alf Ramsey opted to select from the English league alone. Hitchens, who moved to Serie A at the same time as Jimmy Greaves and Denis Law, notched 18 goals in his first season with Inter Milan, where he later won the league title. Two Italian cup final appearances and a Cup Winners Cup semi-final were the highlights at Torino while his final season as professional, with Cagliari, ended with the Sardinians finishing runners-up to Fiorentina in Serie A.
Read more at https://talksport.com/magazine/features/120709/swapping-england-serie-carroll-bothroyd-hitchens-jordan-and-more-176202#mY5tW2GbhhCothvZ.99
JL- Hitchens scores goals after being in the army where he probably played football and kept fit, so what? Players used to play cricket in the summer too, times have changed.
Hogan has two years out injured comes back score 7 in 7 then 13 in half a season until he gets to us yet its all his fault. 60/40? so nigh on a 50% chance don’t make me laugh most of his chances come wide of the goal either side not centrally that 60/40 becomes a little more tricky, Bet Hitchens scored loads from the byline 4-5 yards outside the posts 😉
Harking back to January last season and the pursuit of one Jordan Rhodes, was he instead of Hogan or in addition? I guess we will never know but he hasn’t set the world alight either with 4 goals in 27 for sheff wed.
“Steve Bruce accepted defeat in the race to sign Rhodes last week, with Aston Villa unwilling to match Boro’s valuation for the player.
But in his press conference yesterday, Bruce hinted a deal may not be completely dead – but that would depend on Boro moving the goalposts.
“We made a bid for him (Rhodes) and we went as far as we could,” said Bruce.
“Nothing has changed. Whether that changes in the next 24 hours I’m not so sure.”
“But reports this morning claim Villa have lodged a £15m bid for Brentford striker Scott Hogan – suggesting they are willing to drop their interest in Rhodes.”
“Boss Steve Bruce has checked out the 24-year-old a number of times this season and believes his work-rate, impressive goalscoring form and ability to take his game to an even higher level in the future, will boost his strikeforce.
Rhodes goals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwB9vI1wjf8
MK: “Hitchens scores goals after being in the army where he probably played football and kept fit, so what? Players used to play cricket in the summer too, times have changed.”
He scored goals for Villa too, despite what Paul said! 🙂 (11 goals in his first 22 appearances I think)
All I was saying is that the best of him wasn’t seen until after he came out of the Army. Joe Mercer said that would be the case and it most certainly was.
The matter was not simply about “keeping fit” dear sir but about working in training with the rest of the team and learning how to play in that team. When in the Army he was not able to attend much at VP.
JL- Well Bruces villa is but one iteration of Villa and style of play John, and as far as this seasons gone we have had several versions. so you cannot tell me Hogan nor many of the team have been able to get used to one way of playing we’ve had several. The most puzzling being the pre-season style which failed miserably when tested in the league. My point is most of the blame can be laid at our game plan and Bruce plus the win at all cost mentality to gain promotion.
Hogan 21 goals in 34 games after two years out not even marching. And there was me thinking finishing came naturally to strikers on the whole or they would be playing in another position 😉
bruces pre match ramble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAnLulpJBlI
what ever anyone thinks of hogan,gabby would loved to have scored 5/6 goals in a season
JG 🙂
Its no easy job picking a team without trying them out , a real art to get right 1st time without some coaching. It seems a common ailment among teams/managers to buy players having a storming season without really understanding why or how to get the best from them and the part the team/team mates/system where they were played in their success . Very few players at this level are fully rounded (can’t get over how many are one footed), most are specialists, drop them down 4 leagues and a few can play anywhere a lot get worse without quality support around them.
Best striker we have had recently for me was Yorke who went on to prove his quality at Manure
Lots of talk about Kodjia being at Bodymoor today some fans are already calling for him to play ASAP? unbelievable Geoff 🙂
Out since: Aggravated his already delicate ankle in training with the Ivory Coast on November 10.
Expected return date: Before the end of the season – potentially as soon as April
What Bruce said on March 9: “”He’ll be taking part. He’s done a lot of physical stuff and all the physical work is done.
“He’s been out a year – we’ve got three games this week and he won’t be involved, then we’ve got the international break for two weeks.
“It’s going to be a big ask but we’ll see. I wouldn’t anticipate it, I really wouldn’t, after he’s been out for nearly a year with a recurrence – but you never know.”
injury news
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-injuries-whelan-kodjia-14251861
Probably won’t be able to watch the game sadly.
There is a feeling of optimism now.
Sky has called it for a draw, typical Prutton
Wow. Really need a fresh sheet of paper. Lot of scrolling for everyone, and I apologize.
But, as ever, a fantastic discussion. Checking the history books, analyzing the goals scored…It’s a credit to football, Villa, and everyone who posts and reads. And while sometimes a feather or two might get ruffled, I’ve had far more contentious discussions with the very closest of friends. And an ex-wife or two.
There will soon (I hope) be a time when I can participate more in the banter through the week, because it really is good stuff.
Thank you all.
And I will get that fresh sheet up soon…Typing it up now. But I think everyone’s asleep or doing something else on the other side of the world.
Not quite mate, but heading there.
have a good holiday
Cheers, IanG.
Preview is up.
UTV