Well, is this the season when we will see the Villa Pheonix rise out of what were truly ashes? Will this be the end of nearly 20 years of developing misery for Villa supporters, punctuated only by the false dawn and excitement with the appearance of Randy and his initially welcomed ‘new era’ and the promise of a “Bright Future”?

I started to think when was the last time that Villa fans had something to really sing about, apart from the four seasons 2006-07 to 2009-10 and the false promise at Wembley in 2015.

There was a bit of excitement in early 2001-02 when Villa last went top of the League, and in 2003-04 when J. P. Angel blasted a beauty against Chelsea to effectively put us into the League Cup semi, and just when some minor glory beckoned we only wilted against a journeyman Bolton team. But I feel that apart from those few episodes, the whole time since the start of the New Millenium has been on the back foot. And disastrously so from 2011 until the Doc took over in 2016.

Yes, ever since the occasion that Villa turned up for the last time at old Wembley in 2000 – but failed to remember to bring their football brains with them – it’s mostly been a sad time for the Villa fan. The club has always retained the ‘air’ of something superior, but it has really failed to deliver these last 17 years; we really have to go back to the last days of Dwight Yorke to find any sense of greatness amongst the players to match the club’s ‘air’, despite the thrill engendered when Paul Merson played out his last major role on the football stage, and Benteke’s goals. And Kodjia’s.

Over these last 17 years Villa has lost its way, without a doubt. With the 1982 European triumph still fresh in our memories, we used to believe that it could be any day when Villa could be back at the very top if only that nasty Doug would open the purse strings. But since then all hopes have slowly eroded. Until now.

The Doc has exhibited a straightforward commitment to what’s required (okay he’s had a lesson or two to learn), he’s communicated and there’s grand background talk of a return to ‘The Villa Way’. So, having done so much to rebuild a club to be proud of and create a sense of direction, what could now go wrong?

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John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.

Comments 293

  1. Heroes-and-Villans

    Good one john….what could possible go wrong!!

    Im up for the ride back up. I know i feel proud to be a villa fan again and i actually love my team again. Thats all i know.

    The last years under randy nearly broke me, started to hate us!!

  3. r0bb0

    It feels as if nearly all Villa fans agree with the sentiment of your post John. There seems to be an apprehensive optimism around our prospects for this season. A ‘hope’ for promotion if (not yet) a ‘belief’ that it will happen.
    I was pleased to read the owner of TVB entreating fans to get behind their team (even if it does reek of hypocrisy from this particular author)
    I can actually feel excitement building for the first game of the season for the first time in. . . . oh so long

  4. John Lerwill

    Hey up r0bb0/Andrew,

    Well, just +ve responses so far! What can that mean? 😉

    I’m seriously surprised that the anti-Bruce contingent haven’t said that “Bruce is the reason why it can go wrong!” Well, if there is that thought I’m not saying that they’re necessarily wrong … after all, the proof of a good pie is in the eating isn’t it? The season hasn’t yet started.

    But at least we have an empathetic owner who communicates and has splashed the dosh. And he’s interested in the proper balance of players in the club. So, the recipe being tested is pretty good … I feel the pie will be good! 🙂

  5. Trinity

    Accurate short & sweet summary of the last 20 years as a Villan, John. Thanks.
    Great to see the positivity. That is theway to go at preventing heart disease. Of course, we all know lots can go wrong, but that’s true of the competition and we all start on zero points.

  6. John Lerwill

    Iana,

    Actually, alphabetically we’re already top of the League – on zero points! 😀

    Would be nice – and needful – to be up there at the end of August.

  7. Heroes-and-Villans

    im hopefully of a title push but wont be easy.

    Middlesborough are strong. Wolves could be dark horses (broke the championship transfer record twice). Fulham and sheff wed will be up there.

    Leeds are random, could go down or win it!

  8. Villalore

    JL – I’m seriously surprised that the anti-Bruce contingent haven’t said that “Bruce is the reason why it can go wrong!

    More than SB (who definitely has his limitations), I’m interested in seeing this team’s resiliency. We will have a few blips and how we respond as a team and manager will determine if we have a successful promotion push. I’ve said this before, the strong teams are the one who are capable of coming back from being a goal or two down and still winning it. We just havent seen this from Villa over the years, no bottle.

  10. James Gill

    johnl
    experienced players at this level whelan terry and samba have not played in this league for over 10 years yet last season buys delaet elphik jedi adoamh mccormak kodja where used to it and january signings bree lansby houriane hogan had been star players at their clubs yet all failed under rdm and mainly bruce

  12. James Gill

    andrew
    the new boys dont have time to fail,or put it another way we dont have time for them to fail
    taking everything that comes from wynes round with a large pinch of salt,

  13. Heroes-and-Villans

    Unfortunatly it really is no quick fix.

    We were properly destroyed under randy from top to bottom. The only clubs ive seen on a par of being run so badly are pompey, qpr and leeds and they have taken years to get going again.

    If the dr and co can fix us quicker it will be a miracle.

  17. John Lerwill

    The Mail says:

    Ritchie De Laet’s mysterious absence from this summer’s pre-season schedule has been revealed.

    The 28-year-old, who missed seven months of action last term, has picked up another injury.

    But rest-assured – it’s not serious, is in no way related to the knee and hamstring problems of last season, and is just days away from fully healing.

    It was a fortnight ago when De Laet broke a bone in his wrist following a training-ground challenge.

  18. Mark King

    JL- “Well, just +ve responses so far! What can that mean? ”

    Means only Robbo and Andrew have posted? 😉

    “I’m seriously surprised that the anti-Bruce contingent haven’t said that “Bruce is the reason why it can go wrong!”

    I for one have been working 🙂 and two it just Gives the Pro Bruce brigade chance to admit that although we should be nailed on and things look good squad wise they are not 100% sure he’ll do it.

    Lets go back to last season, optimism abounds, Leaders and captains and high scoring players are recruited, we win most of the pre-season games then get done by Middlesbrough after leading at Half time, turned out to be prophetic.

    We now have Wyness proclaiming that the right leaders have been bought this time because the last time they didn’t know each other?

    “They had been there and done it but they hadn’t been there and done it together,”

    Hang on Chelsea, Hull, Stoke Hmmm…….Ahh! but they know the Champs? heard that before Hmmmm…….. maybe Emo does he’s been relegated to it twice, JT was in Knappies and Wheelan he was old when he was last in the Champs Hmmmmm…

    “We need that stability and fight and desire and the players we (targeted) this summer have that in abundance.”
    Hmmmmmm……. and legs I presume Keith? And good injury Records? no? Glen Wheelan back injury last season, Jt two injuries missed 45 days and barley featured for Chelsea. Elmo seems fit enough, Samba herniated Disc in 15/16 missed 244 days 78 days out last season.

    If these lads are the corner stone of our promotion push best get the cotton wool out and wrap them in it.

    Stoke won Two Games in the last eleven last season, should stand wheelan in good stead if we hit a sticky patch.

    The “Gabby ” article, sentimental tosh that brushes over the abysmal scoring record for years, just what you need up top.

    Andrew- “…harsh to say they have failed James.”

    Brought in to score goals and attack by the Geordie wizard of promotion for a second half of the season push to the play offs minimum, I call that a massive fail, bet you agree with giving kids medals for joining in 😉

    “just read about marks fav manager wagner.”

    while the cats away the mice will play eh Andrew? 😉
    No pre-season excuses for Wagner I see? just a Bruce thing these excuses Hmmmmm…..

    Did I miss anything? oh yeah I’m going to wait and see what happens 😉

  19. Mark King

    Anyone think Steve Bruce should give Villa £12m for the unsellable RMC since he went blabbing to the press like a girl about The gate incident ? not in the clubs best interests that was it? more in SB’ best interest.

  20. OldVilla

    Blimey Mark, you have excelled yourself with that rant. If it is so much hurt for you – why bother mate?
    See positives and see negatives …………….. ie have a balanced view.

    No-one thinks it’s going to be plain sailing, but some can see slightly more positive signs in what is happening at VP compared to the past 5 years in particular. I don’t think anyone is totally pro Bruce but maybe some think that he can get us promoted. After that is a completely different story for everyone to get all agitated about.

    Have a drink mate and chill out.
    oldvilla

  21. Mark King

    OV- Why Bother? Because I enjoy it mate, lifes about enjoying yourself, and as For balance I just balanced up the entire Blog after reading through waves of positivity I thought I’d inject some realism 😉

    I am neither positive or negative yet, have seen good and bad in pre-season and little of our new Key signings yet, Shit happens in football as we have all seen over the last few years so I want to see the sun shining not just the birds starting to stir outside.

    As for me I am calm and serene, but it was a good rant though.

  25. Heroes-and-Villans

    Agree with your last post completly by the way.

    Im more excited/ positive about the re building behind the scenes.

    Dr has been out to indianise all week, setting up villa training camps.

    We have signed a good deal with a technolgy firm too today.

  27. Mark King

    Andrew- why bother buying them? they were Bruces targets and he said he was surprised to get them all. I would of preferred if he had been able to bring 2-3 in and work with what we had, he didn’t, he sold a lot and bought a lot, thats not only difficult mid-season its stupid when you are trying to get promotion, which at that point we were in with a shout of. He always brings players in did it before at Brum and Hull and I think he thought it would have a similar effect.

    As for Wagner they lost 2-1 to Udinase 2 1/2 weeks into pre-season not losing to Shrewsbury, listened to Wagner and in his match report he said the main objective of these friendlies is to gather as much information about your players as possible, nothing about fitness he expected them to be aggressive and up for it. He’s taking them to Austria for a pre-season Camp, last season it was a week on an Island fending for themselves and bonding, wonder what this season will be? up a mountain with only there undies on 🙂

  28. Mark King

    Andrew- we have been buying 17-20 year old since Round arrived most haven’t really surfaced yet but must be 5-6 now , bodes well as we are casting our nets wide and now at home to, after-all we will have to replace gabby after this season 😉

  31. John Lerwill

    Hello Mark,

    What happened to you while you were out working to produce that rant! 😀

    And all before the season’s kicked off! I think you’d better buy in some tranquilisers if you can write that before we’ve even lost a game!

  33. OldVilla

    MK – I thought we would struggle to sell all of them sadly
    I think a lot of us did which is why the calls to sell now or why havent we sold him or him yet, are wide of the mark as it isnt that easy to get rid of …….. but at least it looks like the effort to get rid of is happening …..
    But as JL says, thats the problem for management to attack and needn’t worry us. We just need to see a winning team made up of whoever will do the job for us ……

    oldvilla

  36. Mark King

    OV- You only hope it doesn’t set up another Bomb squad, can’t do much for Moral if your mate is on the outside and you are not, seems like that is part of what has kept the team Morale so low to me for so long. For players like Tishbola who came here to improve only to be sidelined because the manager left is harsh. I hope they all earn a move or a reprieve for everybody’s sake.

  37. James Gill

    why with allthe changes do still buy duds tisc who agreed to pay 5m plus decent wage for a player with so little matches played,just think back to lamberts dithering over deli ali

  39. John Lerwill

    Andrew: “We must pray this is the last season of gabby and hutton.”

    Why do you say that? Whatever these two lack, they at least are committed and act as a useful backup at this time.

    They should go when the need for them to go is ripe i.m.o., which may well be at the end of the season, as you suggest. But why we should pray for them to go is a little beyond me, sorry to say!

  40. Mark King

    JL- From my POW because they are not taking the club forward IMO, Hutton has no end product ditto Gabby they may be Committed (hutton certainly, Gabby appears to be just angry to me) they stop the development of someone else for little return (what are they teaching the youth?) other than they get stuck in, well the kids get stuck in. Certainly if they play their part in getting us up this season so be it but any longer no chance, they have had their day.

  41. Mark King

    OV- Right now I would take a winning team, not because I think it is how we should of gone about our time in the champs but because of the path we have chosen. Lets get out and see if we can then develop the club with Money because thats the route we have chosen imo.

  42. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    I did say their use would be as a “backup”, so I don’t disagree that others may well be better options.

    As to their “having had their day” I feel that’s a trifle harsh. They’ve been around pretty well all through the fiasco of 2011 to 2016 when there was dogged mismanagement at the club. For the most part (not all, I agree) they’ve generally done their best when others were effectively leading Villa towards a chasm. So I’d rather say “thanks for helping” rather than intimating “good riddance”.

  43. Mark King

    JL- well your a very nice person then because the talk on here for too long has centred around how poor these two have been generally, last season was probably Huttons best ever, He was bought by Spurs for £10m and barely played that says a lot, was then bought by McCleish which also says a lot yet we should be Grateful for paying him a fortune? this is his job, how many other Jobs do you know where you can be this poor, cost the firm money yet still be employed? one where you have a contract that says you can stay and continue to draw money thats where. Thanks for trying lads heres £10m? If I employed someone who could not do the Job I would have to let him go, only in football can you get away with it, I would have to put aside sentimentality and do whats best for the firm and customers who are getting a substandard service no matter how well intentioned.

    Lets not pretend that if we had been better managed they would be better thats wishful thinking, Garde wanted rid and I trust his Judgement. If we had had better management they both would of gone long ago, no contracts extensions would be given by fools and desperate men if we were better managed.

  44. Heroes-and-Villans

    Morning John

    re hutton & gabby

    Because for me they have far to long sponged off the club and most importantly they are not very good at football!

    both in there 30’s now…surly they wont get another contract!

  45. James Gill

    john l
    are you trying to be controversial stirring the pot,gabby doing his best when all round him where going topot
    hutton 2 new contracts yet,only 123 games played out of nearly 300, 1 goal in that time ,last season in which he played most not one assist from a full back whose attacking is better than his defending
    i rest my case he is without doubt the worst right back villa have ever had[especially when you think he is starting his 7th season

  46. John Lerwill

    Mark – I’m not being at “sentimental”. The fact to me is that Hutton was recruited during the time of the poorest management of the club. It’s not his fault. Equally, Gabby has been mismanaged during that time. I would not say they’re by any means great players but they’re showing (with better management from Bruce!) some genuine endeavour. If they weren’t I’d want them out.

    Andrew – See above to Mark. I don’t agree they’ve been sponging – I believe they were badly managed. Yes, I agree they’re getting to the end of their days, but while they’re an asset to Villa in the Championship I wouldn’t “pray” for them to go. 😉

  47. John Lerwill

    Hutton and Gabby

    All I’m basically saying is that under Bruce they’ve shown a re-commitment. And that’s good. So from that you can only say that these guys were badly managed before.

    Yes, in the real world as a manager you would not take so light a view of your employees, but footie is footie and you have to (to some extent) go with the flow as to how these matters are dealt with. And if you can turn them around – as Bruce has done – then it is better for the players and the club.

    Richards and Mac are the main sticking points for me.

  48. Mark King

    JL- Not being sentimental? ” its not his fault” ? he is just not good enough John, there is no fault other than we should never have bought him or got in such a desperate position we kept him. I want a contract with Villa its not my fault I’m way to old or maybe never been good enough, I’ve been mismanaged 😉

    ” I would not say they’re by any means great players but they’re showing (with better management from Bruce!) some genuine endeavour”

    Right so two professional players being paid millions and that have cost the club millions in relegation (along with others ) where they were Poor as players in both cases and in Gabbys case Unprofessional, the ring leaders of a bunch of idiots that brought the club to its knees is all forgiven because Steve Bruces better management has them running about more? thats the minimum expected isn’t it John surely?

  50. OldVilla

    For what it’s worth, my views on Hutton and Gabby …………

    Hutton last season had a good season and showed great commitment. As you said Mark – his best season for us and something of a cult figure with the fans. Yes, he has limitations but he is nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out.
    Gabby – I was all for sacking him and never letting him wear the shirt again ….. BUT, he does seem to be showing more recently and has got himself back to full fitness. He will never score oodles of goals, he will get a few and will cause defences problems and make goals for others.
    As JL said, I think they could both do a job for us this season as we blood the youngsters, although it will probably be their last for the club.

    As for what they are paid – is it really their fault that the current market will pay players that much? Are they supposed to say – no thanks I wont accept that offer but halve it and I’ll sign?

    Just chill out, support what is happening from top to bottom of the club to improve the Villa’s lot and look forward to the season until we see how it all pans out …………….. you just never know ……
    oldvilla

  51. Mark King

    OV- Of course they will take the money thats a no brainer and it appears the usual for players to try really hard when they come to their last season? why did they get extensions last time? tried harder for a time, Gabby in Villa’s winning streak under Lambert the year he got sacked (even Lambert got an extension) and Hutton’s was out this summer but triggered a one year extension, had his best season ever bit fishy? these two would never leave Villa because they would earn less elsewhere, their contracts are to lucrative, I guarantee if they were offered similar elsewhere for longer they would be off. As such I don’t think Villa owe them anything and Gabby hasn’t got a few for a good few years hence Agoalayear nick name. In short Its nothing to do with management or a sudden change of heart its money driven IMO.

    As I keep repeating I am chilled out I just enjoy debating I don’t get stressed by it.

    https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2017/03/03/alan-hutton-triggers-aston-villa-contract-extension-clause/

  52. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    You, me, James, Andrew, OV and the whole world knows that footie is run in a way that (if you do stop to think about it) is in a world of its own and is involved with monies that are ridiculous in numbers. And you (rightly) make some assertions about the attitude of players in that false world.

    But – we can’t do much to stop it, and the players develop an attachment to the system and have learnt how to dictate to the world of footie. That’s the situation, loathe or love it.

    Therefore, I feel that our thinking needs to adjust to that reality rather than wish for something that shows no sign of changing. It’s not just at Villa, it’s at a lot of places- especially where money is being thrown around like confetti. Bruce – to my mind – has taken a realistic approach. The players are the club’s main assets and he – like a good manager – takes steps to ensure they’re contributing as much as possible. To my mind the previous managers appear not to have been good at man-management. And that includes Garde.

    So – Gabby and Hutton are now showing +ve traits and have been for some months. For as long as they’re doing that then they’re of use to the club and we should back ’em i.m.o.

  53. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark of course its money related.

    hutton doesn’t give a damn. he was happy to be in our bomb squad for ages because all he wants to do is pick up his massive wage….wont get that at any other club.

    same issue with Richards and ross, hard to sell because no one will pay them weekly as much as we are doing.

    Yes baker off….good luck lad.

  55. John Lerwill

    Andrew,

    Makes you think, doesn’t it?

    I felt all along that the type of managers recruited were required to be ‘yes men’ to Randy’s system – I don’t think the top brass wanted anyone that had real *management* ability: they might have shown them up.

  56. Mark King

    JL- RE garde, he wanted them gone is it his fault we could not shift them? He wanted players in again not his fault. After watching the xmas Video where the brit + American lads all took the piss out of the French it was clear that there were tensions and no surprise Gabby was at the hub of it being the self styled man at Villa if you want to get things done. Once the lines were drawn and the manager not backed what do you think would happen? him and Gabby make up after Gabby had basically de-railed his time at Villa? he left a broken man while the grinning buffon is still here, Garde expected players to take responsibility and be men,treated them as adults, sure he could of played up to Gabby but for what reason? don’t think he would of been our Benteke.

  57. John Lerwill

    Mark: “RE garde, he wanted them gone is it his fault we could not shift them?”

    What I was intimating Mark is that Garde appears not to have tried to apply management techniques to change the attitude of the players rather than want ’em out.

    No, I blame the Lerner regime for creating the conditions at arose. Lerner was a stand-off chairman and his staff were the wrong people for Villa Park.

    Now we have a different ethos running through the club we can see the difference in everything.

  58. Mark King

    Really so why did Bruce bin rmc when we had no strikers? Had he tried everything? Fallen out? Poor relationship? Just couldn’t use him?
    Why is the garde/ gabby situation any different? Especially as he’d been told he could bring in players to replace others, why bang your head on a very thick wall

  60. James Gill

    john l
    hutton he runs about a bit always makes himself available in opposing half, god help him if he ever meets satan because he couldnt make a cross even if his life depended upon it[just take a relook at last sunday] and then when he has made himself available [eddie storbat could drivee entire fleet through the gap hutton has left]how many times have we watch hutton stroll back to edge of box in time for keeper to pick ball out of net, his tackling is nonexsistant,
    so please in a footballing world do explain what he can do

  61. OldVilla

    James, this ‘gap’ that Hutton has left – surely other players should be covering for him? Or isnt it a team game any more? Plus with regard to his tackling, I would say he can tackle very well and makes himself known to the opposition.
    This still doesnt make him a world beater but I think maybe your views are slightly blinkered lol …..

    oldvilla

  62. Mark King

    Do you know what really irks me about Hutton? It’s clear he’s poor at crossing, doesn’t score often (being polite) yet has been the destination of the ball for a hell of a lot of the time in matches in recent times mostly resulting in nothing and him passing the ball backwards. He is actually good at the middle third bit or running up the pitch as it’s known. Who the hell sanctions such tactics?

    Anyway we play Tamworth tonight no doubt SN will use it as a pre-season game .

  63. Heroes-and-Villans

    the line up agaist sheff wed first game of last season

    Goalini
    Cissoko
    baker
    elphick
    hutton
    Ayew
    westy
    gg
    bacuna
    Gestede
    ross

    the only one who might make it a year on is hutton!

    Until we have some sort of stability and some foundation to build off we wont do anything.

    Going to fieldd a new team a year on….its madness.

  64. Mark King

    Jl- something you said sparked a thought, you asked why didn’t Garde try to man manage gabby. Well it’s got me thinking why hasn’t Steve Bruce improved a single player we have above their previous levels? Why has he chosen to bring in players with no resale and not develope what we had like baker and tishbola .
    I suggest it’s two things SB doesn’t do coaching and B this is his do or die season so what comes next is of no importance to him.I know the club has said we will build three teams but I wonder just how tight things are?£4m reportedly for Baker seems nobody is not up for sale potentially with a crusty waiting in the winds on short contracts . Could be inspired could end up a big fat mess unless the kids get to shine.

  65. Mark King

    Andrew- Excactly why a manager more in tune with what we had started to build was required not a manager with completely different requirements imo

  66. Paul Pears

    Not happy with the sale of Baker….Last year it was Kieran Clarke…another die hard Villa youngster bites the dust…and will probably go on like Cahill did to reach far greater heights away from Villa Park…

    We shall end up selling anyone who has potential, so we can continue to pay Bruce’s old boys…including the ones he cant get rid of…..

  67. Villalore

    Just a final thought on Hutton, even when he was in the bomb squad he did train with the u21s, kept his fitness up and the moment he was integrated back into the team, gave it his best. Now his best is probably $hit but I don’t remember him being a negative influence. That is the only reason I feel its incorrect to lump him with Gabby who can probably never redeem himself. Do I want either in the team if we have better players, no. But its not fair to say Hutton worked hard only for the contract extension, he gives his (average) best whenever he is on the pitch.

  71. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    Things are tight…the dr and keith have been open on that front. due to ffp we have to balance the books.

    4mill for our back up cb is ok with me.

    Bruces remit is to go up….now! Pressure

    I know huddy and wagner done amazing last season but was under no pressure what so ever. going up was just a pipe dream for them. its a must for us….can change a lot of things.

  72. DarrenO

    ‘Now we have a different ethos running through the club we can see the difference in everything.’

    Apart from results :), if you take drawing or beating second division sides as some sort of improvement then so be it, in reality because we have been relegated we have no way of saying everything has improved because we aren’t playing in the top league.

    We can say we have an engaged owner and board and they are attempting to right the wrongs of many a year but football wise we are beyond inconsistency to a level that could be described as incoherent based on last season. Don’t expect any evidence of improvement during friendlies but to expect 180 degree change in how we play in a crucial year based on the addition of a defender who won’t play every game and incorrectly has been made captain to a 30 something midfielder to add to our other midfielders just smacks of desperation, there is no planning for seasons 3 or 4 with this approach, as Mark said, Bruce doesn’t care about next season because he’s probably gone either way.

    Still not long to go and negative v positive can have a right old ding dong, I hope none of my fears are realised.

  73. Mark King

    Andrew- Wagner stated they were ahead of plan by two years but under no pressure when they maintained top 6 all season? oh I think the expectations rose rather sharply especially during the play offs.

    Dor- Its experience on the cheap paid for by the potential future leaving, Round is buying his view of the future in with 17-20 year olds (and selling the likes of Sellars etc) meanwhile Bruce has his own Hymn sheet (why else would Dr Xia make a point about youngsters in the squad) but never shall the twain meet until we are in the prem (possibly) and they are untested while we buy more prem experience .

    Its high noon for Villa
    “do not forsake me oh my darling…………..:-) ” (for you old western buffs) 😉

  76. John Lerwill

    Mark: “I have avoided the obvious too John which is two foreign managers did not get on with or want to use gabby? Why?”

    Because as foreign managers they didn’t know how to deal with the Gabby/Hutton culture. Bruce does know how.

  77. John Lerwill

    Baker

    The fact is that Baker was one of those that made the periodic giveaway that gave the opposition a goal. What Villa (Wyness and Bruce) are trying to achieve is turning 0-1 defeats into 1-0 wins, hence why the departure and why the signings we’ve made while we develop the youngsters. In fact I don’t think that Villa necessarily wanted to sell him it’s just that he wanted first-team football and felt that he was not now going to get it at VP.

    Though I like Baker I think it’s probably in the best interests of everyone. And he’s 26 now, which means that at that age he doesn’t want to be thought of as a permanent reservist.

  78. John Lerwill

    Darren: “Apart from results :), if you take drawing or beating second division sides as some sort of improvement then so be it, in reality because we have been relegated we have no way of saying everything has improved because we aren’t playing in the top league.”

    I was really referring to the lines of approach drawn up over the last year. Hasn’t the structure changed significantly in the right direction? I’d say it has.

    I do agree that it has to be backed up with success – and visible development of young players.

  79. James Gill

    john l
    agree with you on baker not disappointed he is sold,but when he is replaced with a 33 and nearly 37 year old is where problems start,would have loved to seen 23/4/5 bought in to learn of terry

  80. John Lerwill

    I like this ditty:

    “Nathan Baker’s magic, he wears a magic hat. And if you throw a brick at him he’ll head the ****** back. Chester is his partner and he will do the same. And when we get promoted we’ll sing this song again.”

  81. Frem

    Couldn’t really turn 4 mill down for Baker could we ? 26, poor on the ball.
    But now I guess either Richards or elphick will be staying.

  82. Mark King

    Hi Frem long time no see mate hows life? 🙂

    Yes its good money for a half decent player as long as the oldies stay fit which is the major worry, looks good now 10 games in who knows? Jedinak has been injury free most his life but as you age your recovery dips drastically and this league is non stop, we saw him in and out last season. We will have to rotate our players a fair bit I think which does not always breed consistency.

    JL- So a manager and club has to bend to a players culture now while the rest of the club do as they are told, very professional, wouldn’t mind if either were special players or crucial they are not. By culture do you mean child like mentality?

  84. John Lerwill

    Mark: “So a manager and club has to bend to a players culture now while the rest of the club do as they are told”

    Is it me or is it you, Mark? 😉

    The way you interpret things is quite intriguing!

    No, you have admitted that Hutton and Gabby have been playing better this past x months. In other words, they’ve had their heads re-directed … and someone’s taking notice of ’em (I hear that Gabby likes the manager to take an interest in him).

    So it’s not a question of their culture winning it’s more to do with getting something out of them that’s due to the club – and the fans.

    Aside from which – as I’ve said several times – the culture that developed at VP up to 2016 was generated effectively from the very top in respect of the poor top brass at the club. That’s where I put the real blame, though Gabby and others did take advantage of it at the time. Now they’ve been put in order and they, in turn, have a top brass they can respect.

  85. John Lerwill

    vs Tamworth,/b>

    Good news: O’Hare scores a wondergoal and C.larke playing a stormer.

    Bad news: RHM injured again. Don’t know how serious just yet.

  86. Mark King

    JL- I am afraid you are totally ignoring both players up turn at the chance of a new contract, Gabby when faced with isolation under RDM bravely fought his way into contention by sitting on his arse and stuffing his face instead of trying to prove him wrong.

    I have it on good authority he is the biggest dick at VP bar none by a Villa employee, I find your defence of him incredible, the culture in 2016? what about all the rest like his problems with Keane and Lamberts other trainers? did he not understand his culture? keane knew a winker when he saw one, he has been the self styled big man at Villa since mons left and the bigger he’s got the worse he’s become, a bully at best imo.

  87. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Again, some misinterpretation of what I’m saying.

    There’s no “defence” of anyone. I am just looking at matters objectively because this is business we’re talking of. The player show as an asset on the books and they should be cajoled/made/pushed/encouraged into fulfilling their obligations.

    The previous managers did not do that i.m.o.

    In all honesty it would be much better if we just wiped the plate clean and pretended that the years 2011 to 2016 did not exist for what good they’ve done the club.

    And I’m always wary of “good authorities” that people speak of. Have you checked – first hand? 😉

    Let’s say “right we’re now starting afresh. Anything we judge from now on as from a clean slate.”

  88. Mark King

    JL- Fine john I will disregard any evidence you put forward then as I have never met you 😉 Have you checked first hand either?

    Gabby like a few others is an asset we can’t sell, he would be worth far more to us off the books than he is to us on the field. He’s been up for sale for two years. His recent performance in Germany if repeated on a pitch in England would probably see him sent off, wrestling the opposition to the ground then squaring up to him and some afters, he then assaulted the German CB with a wild challenge stamping on his ankle and shoulder charging him in the chest, can’t wait until he’s in a real match, what an asset.

  89. Mark King

    JL- you are portraying Gabby as some kind of victim and that I am afraid is not the truth, he is a victim of nothing but his own stupidity

  91. Mark King

    JL- You mentioned the other day that Villa did not have a little or Gidman coming through the ranks but unusually I think your wrong 🙂 O’hare is going to be some player along with Doyle-Hayes (what is it with these dual surnames ) O’hare is ready to play at ten for us now I have no doubt.

  92. Mark King

    music to my ears 🙂

    Villa were looking pacy in attack though as Hepburn-Murphy showed a terrific turn of pace to beat Regan Upton and find Keenan Davis but he couldn’t get enough direction of power on his shot and his effort went wide.

    The Villa were ahead on 18 minutes as O’Hare hit a well-struck shot off the post after Davis’ ball in had been cut out.

    O’Hare nearly turned provider moments later with a penetrating run. He teed up a chance for Hepburn-Murphy who avoided a couple of challenges but struck his shot wide.

    Hepburn-Murphy was agonisingly close to getting on the end of an Oscar Borg cross shortly afterwards as Villa continued to look dangerous.

    The busy O’Hare was pulling the strings for Villa and nearly doubled the lead on the half hour but his low drive was cleared off the line by Jack Lane.

    http://www.tamworthherald.co.uk/tamworth-0-aston-villa-4-emphatic-win-for-villa-but-hepburn-murphy-limps-off/story-30460719-detail/story.html

  93. Trinity

    Always glad to hear the youngsters did well.
    Whether or not Gabby has a good season, he needs to go at the end of it, especially if Villa earns promotion. He is no longer a PL quality player and is injury prone.
    UTV

  95. r0bb0

    We need the season to start so that we can get some *proper* disagreements going.
    Everyone seems to be hedging their bets.
    The ‘+ve’ brigade are cautiously optimistic and the ‘-ve’ brigade are cautiously pessimistic.
    Nobody seems really willing to nail their colours to the mast yet.
    So here’s a challenge. . . . “Where do you think we’ll end the season . . . within a range of 3 places?
    I’ll go for between 5th and 7th.

  96. Trinity

    robbo
    4th and 6th for me. I think Villa will make the playoff places, but I doubt we’ll qualify automatically. It’s Villa, have to do it the hard way:).

  99. John Lerwill

    Mark: “Fine john I will disregard any evidence you put forward then as I have never met you Have you checked first hand either?”

    Mark, I am a historian and everything I write that way is verifiable.

    Actually I don’t tend to say anything about things I’ve not had first-hand experience about. Including having worked at VP.

  100. John Lerwill

    Mark: “you are portraying Gabby as some kind of victim and that I am afraid is not the truth, he is a victim of nothing but his own stupidity”

    Sorry, Mark, that’s again a misinterpretation of what I’m saying. What I have simply said is that the conditions that existed at VP led to that kind of situation arisi9ng and that’s where the real cause is. I’ve also intimated that a manager worth his salt will do what he can to get his players (or workers) to perform to earn their crust.

    I used to have a member of my team that I used to go and wake up to get him out of bed to come to work every day. I kept on mentoring him until he changed his attitude to get him over his gripe (that he had with the previous manager). He then did a sound day’s work.

    Sloppy attitudes by any players are not really excusable either, but in Gabby’s case he shows contrition and willingness to pull his socks up. Under a good manager.

    As I said, let’s wipe the slate clean and try to forget the 2011-16 years. They were bad.

  103. Mark King

    JL- well mate as a historian you have to take the good and bad when discussing something ,I’m afraid it happened although plenty of history is rewritten by the victors and as for verifying everything I hope you own a time machine to talk first hand to everyone you have wrote about as it seems that is the only way I am to be believed its only fair 😉

    Robbo- We should be nailed on mate, we have the promotion specialist, he has had time and money and games to mould his side, has over-seen huge changes in morale (according to JL) has the backing of the board what could go wrong?

    Last season I said we would make top 6 based on the amount of firepower we had, and had an outside chance of 2nd. This season after seeing the quality of the champs first hand and the mind numbing football Bruce churned out I think its going to be a very hard season. As always I hope for top 2 and always want to win it but anywhere in the top 6 is more likely or should be.

    Fulham, sheff wed, Middlesbrough, reading, Cardiff, leeds, derby, Brentford and hull to name a few will be up there and should be stronger than last season having kept there teams on the whole
    Sunderland a bit like we were so an unknown but I like Grayson as a manager. I haven’t had the chance to have a look at the opposition this year as to what they have brought in or done pre-season. Lots of unknowns came out the woodwork last season they will this too.

    As yet we haven’t seen a first team play!! last game before the start of the season but the kids playing last night rules them out (surprise) If we have an achilles heel its past injury and the durability of our deemed uber important old players (who have not played together yet) several are still being treated like our Goal machine Kodjia , Delaet and Jedinak. I really feel several of the kids will have to be used as the season unfolds, and the merry go round of buying and selling has a month to go, makes it hard to predict anything out of anything but optimism.

    I think if used properly we have huge attacking potential and a strong but old defence and a yet to be seen new midfield so at this point with Bruces tactics likely to be defensive top 6 is it for me

  104. John Lerwill

    Mark: “I hope you own a time machine to talk first hand to everyone you have wrote about as it seems that is the only way I am to be believed its only fair “

    Well I’ve always done the next best thing … by doing original research. On the Villa I did 18 months of 3 or 4-days-a-week at the British Library followed by several months at the Birmingham Library, and in the Villa archives. And I do (and have done) the same degree of work in respect of any other topic I write about.

    Although it’s not possible to talk to the actual people that were around, you can get enough from their comments to evaluate what is what so long as you understand the time period in which they lived.

  107. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    That’s not quite the same thing, sorry. It may be that the feller is talking something that’s true, but you don’t know what exactly so better not rely on it i.m.o. Not fully anyway – I’me very used to Villa supporters who vent their views but who don’t think fully through the facts before uttering them.

  108. Mark King

    Jl – I have told you the position his son holds at villa and he goes to every home game he has no agenda either other than he wants the best for Villa as far as I can tell. As I said before cliques had developed and it’s quite likely Jt and co are there to remedy that and focus the team, hogan commented on how the long distance running was good for bonding as half the team arrived in Jan. Kind of points to a non bond last season even if it was Bruce’s chosen ones and rdms cast offs .

  109. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Not knocking him, nor entirely believing him … I know others that are equally connected to Villa, or better. I just prefer to listen and work it out for myself.

    I do agree that part of the reason for bringing in the likes of JT is to help bring professionalism up to scratch.

  110. James Gill

    jl mk
    it doesnt take an insider to honestly say gabby has shite all over villa fans since martin o neil left
    199 games in league and cups in which we reached 1final plus another semifinal
    grand total of 34 goals plus 17 assists
    over 7 seasons

  111. Mark King

    JL- I do the same don’t you worry, his lad was once a player, doesn’t get much more involved

    here it is not a kid in sight bar green

    team
    Steer, Hutton, Terry, Chester, Taylor, Lansbury, Whelan, Green, Elmohamady, Grealish, Agbonlahor.
    subs
    Bacuna, Hogan, Hourihane, Bree, Bjarnason, Amavi, Samba.

  114. James Gill

    MK
    bit like that team today
    can t see bruce lasting to long with giveaway goal huton in defence and no goal gabby upfront and no legs in mid, bacuna on the bench

  115. Heroes-and-Villans

    Well ive not said much about green on these pages and the reason is when ive watched him live or on tele ive not seen alot to shout about. Poor first half from him. Not writing him off and pray he is half as good some think he will be but im yet to be convinced.

  116. Heroes-and-Villans

    Overall decent first half. For dads army side its the fittest ive seen us, alot sharper and hungry.

    Gabby playing like he has 1 year left on his contract 🙂

    Can see why stoke upset welen left, superb half.
    Shame jack went off in his best 10 role.

  117. Heroes-and-Villans

    Can see why elmo has grat crossing stats….he dont muck about touch and cross.

    Like a older foreign albrighton.

    2.5 for elmo and welen could be bargain of decade! Last season excited about 12 mill man ross….funny old game!

  118. Mark King

    well not bad, looks like a flashback to Mon’s era. Ball into the corners behind the fullbacks or try to hit gabby long, not enough support as yet though. Wheelan is playing the long balls from deep out to the wings, could be a really good team, with Ohare behind Hogan and either lansbury or Doyle-Hayes further up the pitch, with wheelan controlling the middle.

    Andrew- I think Greens side looks more congested than Elmo’s and not much to hit in the middle bit like statues rather than those lovely runs we saw from Hogan.

  119. r0bb0

    Shame Lansbury had his worst penalty if pre-season today
    Well done again Hutton. Showed why he won the contract extension and what made him one of our most consistently good performers last year.

  122. r0bb0

    Yeah I k ow 🙂
    Just thought someone ought to counteract the overblown criticism of him
    Fact is, he did consistently rank highly in media motm assessments but some people won’t see his good points.
    I thought he was a decent performer for a mid championship team last season and if all our squad showed his determination then we’d have been much closer the play off spots.

  123. John Lerwill

    Pretty decent performance up until the penalty!

    Gomez has a terrific penalty-save rate, apparently, so never mind it’s only a friendly! 😀

    Whelan superb. Green I’ve been disappointed with in the pre-season apart from first match against a lowly team. I wonder why he and Elmo didn’t swap wings from time to time…?

    First half Villa looked crisp and playing well. Should have had one or two by h-t.

    I know that Grealish wasn’t on for long, but he still looks three-quarter paced to me. Bacuna did well first half I thought after replacing JG.

  124. Heroes-and-Villans

    We need snodgrass or a cam type and we are complete.

    Need to get bodies in the box more, hogan seemed more isolated.

    But overall a game we can take confidence from going into the hull game.

    Some good footy and energy fitness. No the serious business starts!!!

  126. Mark King

    Robbo- See this is where I disagree, fair play he tries hard and we went through him a lot last season but the result in the end didn’t help the team much he just looked ok. Same goes for Gabby today, looked lively was involved a lot but did anyone ever think he’d score? Its a lot of minutes to give to two players that don’t result in much. I would rather use there wages to pay someone who can. That might sound harsh but even if we went and got a couple of players at elmo’s level they would improve us instantly. Those two will always impress with endeavour work rate etc but ultimately they have proven over time to be not quite good enough yet we praise them and hope that this time it will be different.

    Hogan today without Doyle-hayes and O’hare and elmo buzzing about got no service where as Gabby has always been the willing and quick runner for the long ball over the top. Hutton never really combined with Elmo either just sat back, would like to see Bree with Elmo, and I would like us to play to hogans strengths, firts half we didn’t we played to gabbys which I feel is a waste of time he’s no Hernandez.

  127. James Gill

    robbo
    yes hutton won the penalty,but that was it,
    first half left more holes than a good cheese, gave away free kicks in dangerous positions even in friendly
    if he was playing for the opposition honestly would you not be thinking yes massive weak spot just let hutton canter up the field and like the song goes all the time in the world to attack

  130. Paul Pears

    On the whole I agree with your comments MK, but was disappointed with Lansbury’s performance, including his penalty. Bacuna was reasonable, as was Bjarnasson, but Hogan was caught offside too many times, and Hourihane still needs to up his game.

    First half we looked decent, but still no real goal threats, and then second half we looked very ordinary. Steer acquitted himself well, so may as well move Bunn on, and save another wage.

    Still a long way to go before we look the real business.

  131. James Gill

    mk
    hogan should went on for grealish , at least then green and elmo would had someone in box to cross to,
    bree for hutton is no brainer
    then to kodja is fit need midfielders to get sorted bacuna on today in central midfield shocking 100 matches and he still has not got aclue where to play

  132. Mark King

    PP- on performances so far Doyle- Hayes looks a better bet than Lansbury and O’hare our best no10, we have yet to better that first game in Germany.

    JG- yep Hogan on when the game had changed, Watford changed their play and personnel. We however seemed to be playing the ball from deep to the wings and over the top first half as I noticed from the first few friendlies and when the game changed that was it, no plan B just players running about, or taking on the world. The game to me looked like two teams with no forwards.

    Think we could very likely break RDM’s early season Draw fest

  133. Heroes-and-Villans

    Massive yes to snodgrass james!

    Dont think he wanted hogan to play that long as kodjer out sat.

    Think hogan up top with gabby could work, let gabby run the channels and hogan get in box.

    Lansbury is no number 10. Looked awkward there, much better a little bit deeper to pick his passes.

    Surprised its not 352 though. Thought it was nailed on with elmo.

    Looks like it will be 451 or 442.

  136. James Gill

    mk
    once stream went down never seen rest with subs,
    but it sure as hell would have pleased taylor long balls for gabby to run on to
    reading some reports it must of been different match on their screen,back 4 sitting deep ,hutton galloping about leaving gaps,whelan neat and tidy,elmocrossing to no one green quiet lansby missed penalty dont seem to remember anything else grealish got injured ,gabby got blown for offside,bacuna has fancy haircut

  138. Heroes-and-Villans

    Hogan will appreciate playing infront of jack and elmo on the wing.

    Jack taken to hospital, fall hurt him internally.

    Need a new cam! No one else apart from youth as number10

  144. John Lerwill

    Andrew,

    Dunno why we’re talking of Jack as being in the running to be frank.

    I just don’t see him making it now. Very unfortunately.

    Lansbury – I agree – is not so effective as the “number 10”. I do think that Gabby and Hogan should be the front 2 for next week.

    As for the youngsters that Mark keeps talking about, their turn will come.

  145. Mark King

    JL- Hogan and Gabby? you have to ask why it hasn’t been tried in pre-season and I think the answer is they would clash in there runs. As For O’hare he is on fire at the moment what better time?

  147. Heroes-and-Villans

    Agree on jack mark

    Thought we were better when he was on the pitch. Links mid and attack. Does his work between the lines. Ohara will have a chance no doubt but need another player cant just have jack and him.

    Reading have 1.5 bid for bacuna turned down.

    I dont mind bacuna. Lke him in the centre.

  149. Frem

    We have turned down 1.5 million for Bacuna. WHY ? Bruce also saying Hutton is going know where. The worst attacking full back you will ever see.

    didn’t catch much of the game because of work, caught the the last 30 mins but it was what I expected. defensive. Hogan came on and we just hoofed it to him

    Really not convinced about Bruce. Hate his football. He has no intent of attacking

  153. Mark King

    Frem- In a nut shell mate we have to start scoring, I think that is three games with the seniors playing (without the youth) in a row with no goals from open play, hate to say it but no Kodjia no goals if we carry on in this mode

  155. Mark King

    Dr. Tony Xia‏Verified account @Dr_TonyXia 1h
    More
    One detail impressed was Silver explained2players after game. Nowday’s games show need more accurate instant data&methods improve practice.
    50 replies . 11 retweets 99 likes
    Reply 50 Retweet 11 Like 99

  156. Mark King

    Modern coach Andrew Bruce sadly would not know where to start and I mean that, the players can be given information that change their game, its not all about hard work and geeing them up.

  157. John Lerwill

    Mark/Andrew,

    Well, I don’t think the “attack” looked any worse when Jack went off to be frank. I think that instead of Lansbury being the “number 10” we should have had Hourihane in there (though he also I’m still worrying about)

    The thing that worries me about Jack is (as he showed last season) does not run with enough pace. And I actually think he’s lost something since 2015 in respect of awareness and cunning. No, I don’t think he does the job well enough.

    I will agree that with Mark that there are a couple of youngsters trying to break through with potentially and who could do a more effective job than Jack i.m.o., but whether they are ready to be thrust into the fray of first-team football I’m not certain.

    Unless Jack comes on very quickly we’ll not get anywhere with him, I feel. But I do hope I’m wrong.

    As for the “no goals” today matter, I would point out that we created quite a bit – we just were not quite accurate enough with passes/centres sometimes. I think that was the main issue, especially in the first half. Green was profligate a couple of times in not getting his centres across accurately. And another time in the second half also. Elmo was better.

    If they’d been placed better then we’d have scored, I’m certain. And this was against a PL side.

  158. John Lerwill

    Frem,

    Nice to see you posting, but if you only saw the last 30 minutes that’s when you would have every reason to complain!

    In the first half-hour (with a different set of players on the field) Villa looked a lot more impressive, and were passing crisply and creating chances. Whelan was terrific, and Elmo showing up well.

    The football was good, so no criticism of Bruce from me.

  159. Trinity

    Watched the match on YouTube. Thought Villa were okay for a while, but Watford had the best move at 15 minutes, which ended up with a mis-struck shot. Apart from that, thought it was pretty scrappy and error ridden.
    Hutton does spend too much time on the ball, but surely isn’t as bad as many claim.
    It’ll just be more of the same at this rate. Lots of draws, as some have already said, on the way.

  160. James Gill

    john l
    grealish is a bit like bruce either its all going to come together quick or they both be on their bikes
    it wasnt good today either when you think bruce has had 10 months plus 36 games compared to silva 2 months and couple friendlies,seen a bit yesterdays paper that silva insisting players all speak english,
    this time next week 1st match will be over and it could be good bad or ugly, hull have signed couple players from chelsea on loan

  161. Mark King

    Just got in after a couple of beers and amazed that nobody has commented on DR xia’s tweet? how in the modern age is this not common practice? to me it shows up what level the whole club is operating on if he is suddenly impressed by a progressive manager going about his work? its like he has just seen the sun for the first time.

    JL- sadly I have to say how may times did we test their keeper? how many months now just to show promise?

  162. Mark King

    JL- on Jack, the commentator talked a lot how the dynamic had changed when he went off, maybe you missed that but it was definitely detrimental to green. taylor never engaged with him at all worth calling ditto Hutton on the right.

  163. Clive Evans

    Iana – like you I watched on You Tube this morning – looked a bit better playing in our own half but I think we might soon have the tag Aston Villa Nil.

    I was disappointed with the crowd 10,000 – what were the ticket prices? They could have dropped them right down for this match. After all the hype about what a great man Taylor was for the club – the ‘posh seats’ were empty; guess the boxes were full

  164. John Lerwill

    Iana: ” Apart from that, thought it was pretty scrappy and error ridden.”

    In the first half any errors and scrappy play were certainly not from Villa! It was far more than “OK” in my view – Villa’s football was crisp with hardly any pass going astray – except on the final ball.

    If you’re criticising Villa’s accuracy on the final ball, then I can see your viewpoint, but at least were showing up in that area better than they did last season – and against a PL side.

    Yes, Watford had that glaring chance they missed, but for the first 30 minutes odd Villa ruled the match and should have led.

  165. John Lerwill

    Mark:

    A very good morning to you. I hope you feel better after a good night’s sleep! 😀

    how many times did we test their keeper? Agreed; just the penalty and the shot from Hourihane. But the big +ve for me was that Villa were getting a lot of opportunities in getting crosses in. They – and other final balls – were short on quality unfortunately, and the shooting was mostly awry. But against a PL side I thought we did pretty well, and looked far more on song than, say, in the friendly against Boro exactly a year ago.

    the commentator talked a lot how the dynamic had changed when he went off That may be – to a degree – but not because of Jack’s super ability i.m.o. It’s just that the wrong player replaced him in that position in my view. Jack was too often shown to be slow in pace and thinking. I hope that was down to him being not long back from injury; but now he’s knocked again.

    You lot are a bunch of grumblers! 😀 It’s as though you saw a completely different game – though I agree that after the penalty we went backwards.

    I seem to be the only one in step on how the match went! 😀 😀

    But in all seriousness, I do agree that we have to improve on the final delivery.

  166. John Lerwill

    Re: how many times did we test their keeper? Agreed; just the penalty and the shot from Hourihane.

    Of course, I forgot the save from Gabby early on in the game. So 3 efforts when the keeper was tested I think.

  167. Mark King

    JL- I agree in the sense that Watford are a prem side and we matched them on the whole. That was until they changed things second half (sound familiar?) what was alarming was the lack of shots and the glaring Kodjia sized hole up front, neither team looked like scoring. Now if a top two spot is the aim then that has to be sorted and apart from the Germany first game it hasn’t looked like its been solved to me. We are a better more organised version of us last season without Kodjia.

    I presume that you are going on the premise it was a prem side and we will surely beat the teams in the Champs if we play like that? Maybe, but if last season has taught us anything its not to take the Champs lightly. I would put the top 7-8 clubs at Watford level, and it was Watford with a new manager and players we had three changes from last season.

    clive- were was the crowd? I was expecting a sell out and all they had was one banner with his mush on what a damp squib of a send off to a great man.

  168. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Regardless of PL-side oppos or not, I simply thought that Villa’s first 30-35 minutes showed that they were literally ‘on the ball’ and in Whelan had a key player. In fact I think this is the team/formation and the possible alternatives (injury etc) I’d now like to see. A 4-3-1-2 formation. I think it would do well…

    Johnstone/Steer
    Bree/Hutton, Chester/Samba, Terry/Samba, Taylor/Amavi
    Elmo/Adomah, Lansbury/Hourihane,Jedi/?, Green/Grealish
    Whelan/Hourihane
    Hogan/Gabby, Kodjia/Hogan

  169. Mark King

    Morning JL- couldn’t be better thanks, I wonder how much better we would be with a proper centre forward, we have watched balls whistle into the box since Benteke left to little effect. As for moaners maybe where theres smoke theres fire? as you look down from manor house on positivity hill to our village you may see a little plume rising 😉

    Dr Xias comment about Silva was both intriguing and alarming, these are the types of practises that Round was supposed to bring? Dr Xia said when Bruce arrived how open he was to ideas hmmm…

  170. John Lerwill

    Markk: ” neither team looked like scoring”

    Well, I was watching another game then! 😀

    For the first 60 minutes I could definitely see us scoring – several times. But final delivery usually let us down in my view.

    And Watford had that awful miss on 15 and in the last half-hour might have done a lot better with their shooting.

  171. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    I only see fog down in your village! 😀

    No, I think we’re getting somewhere. Villa’s signings this summer have made a big difference i.m.o. and once they’ve warmed up – and Kodjia has returned (agreed) – I think we’ll see some good stuff.

  172. James Gill

    how far did watford finnish above relegation, they had a stinking end to season, did our mate troy play yesterday, watched without sound and couldnt remember seeing troy playing
    silva only had few weeks in compared to bruce but after 20mins silva had villa sussed,the penalty was stupid by kaboul been safer to let hutton shoot only thing in danger would been a steward on row z

  174. Mark King

    JL- Its a strong squad but over the course of the friendlies they have played they have created little from open play. As I have said the first game in Germany was different Gravy. Not only were the youngsters lively and creative they dovetailed superbly with Hogan green and Elmo, that is priceless. Don’t forget Hourihane was on the pitch too, swap him for wheelan and ?

    Johnson/Steer

    Bree chester JT Taylor

    wheelan

    Elmo Hayes/Hourihane Green

    O’hare/grealish

    Hogan

    thats the team I want to see based on the games so far preferably with hayes and O’hare

  176. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Well I think you know how I feel about the youngsters. I’m definitely with Bruce on this.

    I agree that several have indeed shown great promise and will be merged in as time goes on, I’m sure.

    But I think what you’re overlooking is that yesterday was the first time we’ve seen *that* team selection play together, and I think that’s more-or-less the one that will stick apart from the return of Codger and the Jedi.

    The more games they’ll play together it should get better I think.

  178. Mark King

    JL- I disagree other than wheelan, elmo and JT raising the quality of what we did it was still the same stuff that created little without Kodjia last season, we just looked better doing it.

  179. Mark King

    JL- Sometimes a team selection just works, the sum of its parts works, what we saw yesterday showed improvement not a lot of promise goal wise, that would be 10-15 chances created and testing the keeper a lot more imo.

    There was no movement in the box to pick out for green and Elmo hence the aimless stuff, hogan and O’hare looked like they had played together for years and Hayle provides what no other midfielder we have has done, the bullets, he played them all into dangerous areas and his understanding with O’hare is outstanding, it was last season too.

    I agree there is not a chance in hell he will play them next Saturday but equally I don’t think we will see much goal action either.

  181. Mark King

    JL- You have to ask why he played Gabby? its because IMO he can play that fetch the bone Job, did it for mon, what I am saying is Bruce is trying to play the way he did with Hull but without Hernadez up top.

    With the players we have that approach does not get the best out of them, the combination of the youth players that have not been indoctrinated into bruces style and the likes of Hogan allowed a much more fluid style I would liken to Brentfords , Bruce will continue down the road we are on but I don’t think it suits us as it didn’t last season.

    I think he thought Hogan could play that position for him, turns out he is not the all round athlete
    Hernadez is , I can see why he likes Gabby, he’s quick and strong. I think he got his money in jan and splashed it But it still didn’t allow him to play his way and now the wallet is closed he is bringing in cheap experience. I think he would love a tall direct Centre forward if he had the money and we may see one yet but he is missing vital parts to his plan still and times ticking.

    right off for breaky

    https://youtu.be/9EntljPRqMs

  187. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    That article doesn’t say anything in effect except that we haven’t shown great scoring propensity.

    And I agreed with that but pointed out that enough balls came through but were inaccurately delivered. So to my mind it’s the final delivery that was yesterday’s main problem and cause of not scoring any.

  188. Mark King

    JI- which is what I am saying he hasn’t sorted that out yet no? 🙂
    Two ways of looking at what your calling inaccurate, green cut a ball back to the edge of the area where we should of seen the onrushing Hourihane (think it was him) to smash it in the net instead he had joined gabby on the goal line, very rarely do wingers hit a player who’s stood still, they play it into an area that an onrushing player will arrive in and meet the ball, our timing is all off in that respect imo.

  191. John Lerwill

    Mick: “which is what I am saying he hasn’t sorted that out yet no? “

    I think we’re at cross-purposes again! 😉

    Your argument up until this season was that we’re too reliant on Codger, who can score goals by himself without necessarily being helped. That we’ve lacked in the goals creation department to supply he and others, like Hogan.

    I’m saying that we look as though we’re on the road to recovery there as the goal creation department seemed to be working better yesterday … except for that more accurate final ball.

    Yesterday was the first time that formation played together and I really think it was promising enough to see what transpires over the first 2 or 3 games.

  193. John Lerwill

    Andrew,

    Well while I’m totally in sympathy with Jack if that is the case, this is a very odd kind of damage to have.

    I’m afraid it makes me wonder whether this is linked to lifestyle, but I’m not an expert in this and am just guessing. In which case I should just shut up until we get to know more – if we do.

  196. Mark King

    JL- well and truly crossed mate 🙂

    I am saying that SB’s main plan of attack is a pass out to the wings from deep generally with either the wingers or Gabby/Hogan receiving the ball from deep. Neither forward is ideal for the task other than Kodjia. Neither of them is ideal to cross to either. IMO Hogan should be our main goal threat and other than how we played in the first game against the Germans with the kids Bruce hasn’t sussed out how to service him and his continuing with Plan A which he used at Hull with Hernadez a much different type of striker.

    Even though getting crosses in looks promising as far as potential chances it doesn’t suit who we are playing to and the odd poke over the top for Gabby is unlikely to get the Goals required in the next month until Kodjia’s back. He may bring someone in or a loan but is unlikely to play the kids which worked for Hogan. Hayes plays much more advanced and puts the wingers and strikers in much more favourable positions which we all thought Lansbury/hourihane would do but don’t. doesn’t appear to be producing goals from elsewhere either another problem from last season.

    I expect that clear as mud 😉

  197. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    I suppose the clarity issue is based on the fact I don’t go with your perspective! 😀

    I see Codger as being a perfectly good player to centre to – as is Gabby. Hogan I agree needs to be served differently if we were talking about him as being the main striker then I think we’d have more agreement between us.

    But the other matter is that last season we weren’t centring the ball well at all, so the matter of whether centres could be dealt with was (for last season) mostly an academic issue.

    I rather fear that Hogan will lose out to Gabby and Codger when the latter is fit – which would be (of course) a complete waste of a lot of money.

    But I honestly think we’re playing with ideas just now and we have to see what goes … but I do have reservations (with you) as to Hogan’s suitability to fit the playing style shown yesterday. But that’s not going to change – the style I mean.

  198. Mark King

    JL- re-read then because I am talking about the next month when we probably wont have Kodjia 😉

    £24mil on two players that we can’t use in Hogan and RMC, poor do.

  200. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Well, we’ll just have to do as best as we can and hope that Terry scores a hat-trick or two!! 😉

    Let’s just be +ve – we might be pleasantly surprised as to how it all turns out.

  203. Trinity

    Mark
    “grealish has a bleed on his Kidney out 2-3 months”
    Hope he realises a bleeding kidney or liver means strictly no alcohol.
    Good luck to him.

  206. Mark King

    JL- I haven’t looked yet but I remember the incident and the bloke clattered into his back, probably a knee to the Kidney.

    I forgot to mention, we had a chat about us looking good for 45 when they knew they could play flat out in Germany and I raised the doubt they could sustain it over 90? what do you think now? we made subs 😉

  207. Heroes-and-Villans

    injured

    Jack
    adomah
    Johnson
    jedi
    kodja

    not a great bloody start to the season…especiialy when our weakness is goals and kodjer, adomah and jack are out….our main supply of goals!!

  208. Mark King

    Andrew- we have to get the best from Hogan and Bruce has been shown its possible, its whether he will deviate from the way he’s setting up imo

  210. John Lerwill

    Well, I disagree – of course! 😀

    Gabby for me is the best option in Kodjia’s absence, though Hogan up front feeding off Gabby might do well as I see it.

    SB is unlikely to get the best out of just Hogan with the senior players he’s almost certainly going to play, and if without Gabby. With Jack now out, and as Mark intimates, the younger players might be more on Hogan’s wave-length, but I think we just have to accept they’re not going to get played as first-choice. Not yet, anyway.

  211. Villalore

    JL, that you are putting your hopes on Gabby to win us games shows what the eternal optimist you are 🙂 Well miracles, do happen..
    Both Gabby and Hogan are poor on their offside awareness, if they score any it’ll probably be disallowed. I do hope RMC moves on and we can get another striker in.

  212. John Lerwill

    VL,

    Well, Gabby has scored some before, so it can happen again!

    But, seriously, I can see him more as a link to a specialist striker – whether it’s Hogan or Codger.

  213. DarrenO

    Have to say it’s a scary thought that Gabby is a first choice striker, sorry JL, absolutely understand why you think he’s the upfront option but I’m not convinced and I’m not convinced because of every performance he’s had since 2012, he has offered nothing and has no redeeming qualities, we lost a great no.2 in Keane because Lambert couldn’t stand up to Gabby.

    I truly believe Keane could have helped stop the professional rot that has now been placed on JT’s shoulders irrespective of his lack of professionalism in his personal life. Keane also has the very same winning mentality that we are told JT has, although you can be sure he wouldn’t have stripped off to his football kit to get a medal in a match he didn’t play in.

    Watford was a nothing game in pre-season terms, showed nothing in terms of how we’ll play against Hull beyond probably the same incoherent approach to the attacking part of the game and a complete joke as an honour to GT in terms of attendance. Could have had a GT Memorial cup for teams he’s managed to make it more interesting.

    I get the argument for Baker’s sale but SB must be a feckin eejit if he thinks Richards is suitable back up to allow Baker’s sale. Shows how we have to scrape the barrel to generate funds for purchases that we (Bruce) are (is) prepared to allow Richards be back up when he’s only ever proven he has no interest in Villa.

    As for the earlier request for predictions, well Top 10 so 8th, 9th, 10th for me based on the fact that last we season we were quite successful in not conceding given our park the bus approach to football, in addition in trying to fix something that wasn’t broken we’ll spend a few million in wages on a 36 yo who won’t play every game and has been made captain for no reason. We’ve bought Whelan who is a defensive midfielder either as a supplement to Jedinak or in complete replacement of. We’ve bought one attacking player in Elmohamady but we have no height in the box to take advantage of his crosses.

    Based on last season where we need a 180 degree turn in how we approach football, given the championship isn’t made up of hoof ball and the successful sides attempt to play attacking football and given how predictable we are upfront, I do expect improvement but not sufficient for promotion.

    The manager and assistant manager are defenders, leads me to believe they have no knowledge on how to attack beyond what they think defenders don’t like, there needs to be method and practice and they aren’t providing it as evidenced last season and if any truck is placed with pre-season friendlies, it’s only the kids who aren’t under Bruce/Calderwood instruction daily that provided the much needed impetus in front of goal.

    I’d echo giving O’Hare a chance behind the striker (Hogan not Gabby) play three across the middle, Whelan in front of defence, 4 at the back with the fullbacks given licence to bomb on. 4-1-3-1-1 formation.

    I’ll be very happy if I’m wrong but I can only predict based on what I know and not some sort of heart driven sure we’re Villa top two or nothing.

    A speedy recovery for Jack, he may be only a bit part but he’s more Villa than Gabby.

  214. James Gill

    dor
    spot on with your post
    dreading this season cause i see it going tits up quick could be any of terry samba richards or gabbys mind you it will not be pretty

  215. Heroes-and-Villans

    Darren

    Terry made captain for no reason!!!!! It’s John Terry!

    Think people will be surprised how often he will play. Good shape.

    Welen signing superb….we were all moaning we rely on jedi….now we don’t.

    But the attacking part, I agree….has to find goals and bruce knows it.

    We will sign a st and a winger/cam type before window shuts, I put money on it.

  217. Heroes-and-Villans

    Johnson
    Hutton Chester Terry Taylor
    Elmo Welen Lansbury Green
    Hogan Kodjer

    That looks like it will be our fit starting 11

    Steer
    Bree Samba Jedi Amavi
    Adomah Jedi Hourihan Bjanson
    Gabby Grealish

    Second team

    strength in depth that is, if we could get a cam/winger and st it will be amazing.

    Again bruce has no hiding place

  218. Mark King

    DOR- Like a pirate ship sweeping in and delivering a broadside to the balloon of positivity lol 🙂
    As usual you say what I am thinking in more eloquent terms.

    Andrew- you Know he is in good shape because? presumably last season he wasn’t when he played 15 games and was injured twice for two months? You can’t predict these things I know but just look at Jacks injury and Kodjia last season who looked bullet proof and sure to beat the 20 goal hoodoo. Nobody knows but you can’t beat being young for recovery.

  221. Heroes-and-Villans

    Pre season is the best time of positivity I have found in my years of supporting villa. Make the most of it now because when the first ball is kicked it will prob go down hill!!!

  223. James Gill

    andrew
    difference when signing mcgrath was the manager,gramham taylor 1st round could do know wrong,bruce has shown absolute nothing yet,keeping faith with some of players you named is mental most of them are part of reason we are in shite

  224. Mark King

    Andrew- it was controversial considering his problems off the field but he wasn’t yet 30 I had bigger things to worry about as the interests rates were at 15% and my mortgage was £50 short of my monthly wage mate 🙂

  225. Mark King

    Andrew- Our back up to the three CH’s Chester, JT, and Samba. Two of which are old and have had very recent injury probs are Backed up by the Unfit Richards who is poor anyway, Jedinak who isn’t a centre half and has proved injury prone last season and Delaet, coming back form injury but has re-injured himself, we do Have Bree who got injured in training when he signed in training then didn’t really feature. oh and Elphick who got injured last season 🙂

    Mind you we did sell Baker who himself likes an injury 😉

  226. DarrenO

    John Terry meh, sorry I don’t see him as any sort of saviour, I see a racist, I see someone who thinks with his middle leg, I see someone who has come to the end of their playing life and can’t decide whether to retire or realise during his time with Villa that he actually no longer has it and should have retired at the end of the season instead of lumbering us with an expensive contract and no funds to replace or opportunity until January or next summer.

    In addition what did Chester do to lose it, this just smacks of mis-mgmt on Bruce’s part not to retain Chester as captain as he did enough last year to warrant being captain again but no, drop in a has been, sell him as a saviour and how lucky we are to have and then make him captain despite no contribution to Villa.

  227. John Lerwill

    Darren: “I’m not convinced because of every performance he’s had since 2012…”

    But then you talk about his *none* playing issues – as a professional. Which I can agree with you on. But that’s the past.

    In point of fact he had quite a significant season in 2012-13 after coming back from injury, but I agree that between 2013 and 2016 he was mostly ‘out’.

    But that – again – was then. He’s clearly now back and chomping at the bit.

    Actually, I expect a lot of disagreement from y’all on him, but we just have to agree to disagree.

  228. John Lerwill

    Andrew,

    I agree that if he were available Codger and Hogan would start up top.

    But Codger is out … so Gabby will play. Now if he turns out to be a success and Hogan doesn’t, what then?

  230. Mark King

    DOR- let me run this idea past you, Villa are now showing all our games bar the ones being televised at £110 a season. A new marketing whizz kid has been installed to do all this.

    Cast your mind back to last season and RDM being revealed to the Chinese in Hong Kong as the champions league winning manager at Villa.

    This season we have the very Famous/infamous JT from said Chelsea team, instantly recognisable to the Chinese public. What if we had a large take up of our games in china? we can only broadcast them abroad not UK it seems so if we got a good few thousand chinese signing up it could be lucrative, and as the plan is to win the league and go to the prem it would be a one season only deal which could bring in much needed revenue to avoid FFP? and instant recognition there for our Prem rebirth and a whole new fan base.

  231. Mark King

    If Gabby turns out to be a success then we might well find the moon is made of cheese, I hope so I like cheese. Whats more worrying is Bruce bought hogan and can’t supply him so has to use Gabby, its not in preference to as such as what manager does not use the players he has bought to show his ability in buying players thereby garnering trust for more spending.

  233. James Gill

    moxely did a piece in sundays paper and not many clubs have out spent us on fees,and would think none on wages
    boro wolves sheff wed bristol city are only ones that have spent over 10m

  234. John Lerwill

    Mark: “If Gabby turns out to be a success then we might well find the moon is made of cheese, I hope so I like cheese. Whats more worrying is Bruce bought hogan and can’t supply him..”

    I agree with your last point there … I also find that a mystery. But as Hogan didn’t play much on Saturday perhaps we’ve not yet seen what they’ve been doing on the training ground this summer.

    The issue really is that we want Villa to be successful and gain promotion, and whatever it takes for us to do that is good enough, for me at least, and do the analysis afterwards about what happened. The squad i.m.o. is strong enough to achieve the target – to me the dubious issue is “how many 1-0 or 2-1 wins will there be in getting there?”

  237. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    That’s a very strange remark to make. I have read a lot of your comments and believe I do see where you’re coming from. But apart from a comment here or there I don’t share the same perspective in the context that we are where we are and with the manager we’ve got. we don’t have anything else!

    Essentially, I don’t believe in the approach of looking for problems that may or may not be there. We won’t know until we get there! And even then so long as “getting there” means success in what the club (and we) are seeking – promotion – then that’s good enough for me.

    On top of that I believe there is enough going on at VP that suggests to me that the need to filter in the youth is a known requirement. It will happen.

  238. Mark King

    JL- The problem is we are going for promotion over developing a good team which can grow organically, we cannot get any further with it without cutting it down after one season and starting again with a seedling instead of further developing a sapling into a mighty Oak, the seedling may struggle to make it through the winter Frosts.

    god I’m poetic 🙂

  240. Mark King

    JL- well moms has pretty much said all that I have been saying even about hogan in Germany and how we are unlikely to play that way. Its not a strange remark at all as you have been haggling with me for days while I have made similar points to moms. Maybe your need to be positive is blinding you to what I am saying as you and others see it as being negative? its not, its just what I am seeing, I am by nature a fault finder (in a logical way not in life in general), when I worked in engineering designers would ask me to look at their work and highlight the pitfalls that they clearly couldn’t see. I don’t claim to be right either.

    Our biggest problem last season was not scoring enough, our biggest problem so far in pre-season appears to be the same with the seniors playing together. I have acknowledged it looks more solid I just don’t believe the answer to goal scoring is as you see it “about to happen” if we continue to play in the same Vein.

    Bruce has made us less likely to lose but just as likely not to win, and wins are it if we are to go up.

  241. Mark King

    JL- Fine John take all the players that will be over the hill for the prem next season or god forbid the one after out of the squad and see what you are left with? then try and calculate how much we will have to spend to by Prem quality replacements of a younger age, you may not of seen the ridiculous money being spent this season on single players, we are going to have to spend an awful lot or be the worlds canniest buyers.

  242. John Lerwill

    Mark: “ts not a strange remark at all as you have been haggling with me for days while I have made similar points to moms.”

    On those points I’ve not been haggling Mark, except on a very slight point or two.

    “take all the players that will be over the hill for the prem next season or god forbid the one after out of the squad and see what you are left with?”

    Apart from Terry I don’t see anyone leaving or going “over the hill”. I just can’t see where your evaluation is coming from: there’s a lot of time between now and next season and all kinds of things will have happened that we haven’t an inkling about right now.

    We can talk amongst ourselves about what we see, but the reality is likely to be a lot different.

    In fact I reminded myself today how things were when Ron Atkinson left in 1994-95, mid-way through the season. Players like Spink, Richardson, Townsend and (of course) McGrath were still there and out of those only Richardson actually went very quickly when Little brought in younger players.

    And one of the points is that once we’re promoted, Villa will again be a big attraction for good players to come to. The home-grown youth will come through gradually, as needed.

  243. James Gill

    john l
    on my old man said site now praising gabby,you arent his agent [joke]
    31 days transfer window will be shut ,will bruce be here for january not sure
    friendlies have shown us to be no different to last season, 1 0 wins only get so far,and really cant see us scoring 2 in many games,johnson never convinced last season few good games plenty shaky ones,hutton good for opposition chances of scoring, terry be plenty lads from milwall sheff utd be looking forward for a chance at him,chester how will he react to losing armband, taylor average whelan stoke had poor run end last seasonplenty miles up on clock
    can we see a load of clean sheets in them

  244. John Lerwill

    On reflection I can see that the Jedi may well not cut it for the Prem, but I can’t see any others that won’t survive for a season or two once we’re back.

  245. John Lerwill

    James,

    Whether you win 1-0 or 5-0, it’s still only 3 points you get. Not very satisfying in terms of entertainment, granted, but so long as enough points are garnered, you get promotion.

  246. John Lerwill

    Mark: “I am by nature a fault finder”

    Interesting that … I’d describe one of my abilities as being a ‘problem solver’. The word ‘fault’ seems negative to me. 😉

  247. James Gill

    john l
    will we be able to hold out enough as for players not fit for pl at end of this season
    bunnhutton taylor samba terry richards elphik bacuna whelan jedi lansby elmo bree mccormak gabby

  248. John Lerwill

    James,

    Good try, but I don’t see what that list of names has to do with the point, to be frank.

    Elphick and Mac already probably on the way out; Terry will go at season end anyway; only Jedi, Richards and Samba concern me in terms of PL capability. And also would see Hutton, Bacuna and Gabby (if he stays) being backup only.

    As I said, by 2018-19 there’ll be changes anyway.

  249. Mark King

    JL- well you have to find them or know they are there to fix them 😉

    Of our senior players who could survive. Chester half decent at WBA at RB not considered good enough by Pullis for CB, Houriahane let go by Sunderland has worked his way back to us, a maybe in the right team. Bree, untested at prem level and young and not first choice, Johnson loanee and never played in the prem I believe another unknown but well thought of, Green just broke through should improve this season hopeful., Jack has played there is talented and still young likely to play,Kodjia should still get a few. all the youth players with no real experience of mens football and not likely to get it by next year, oh lansbury maybe but not impressing at Villa.

    That is it.

    Jedinak, JT, wheelan,elmo, taylor, Adomah, hutton, Gabby, Samba, Delaet either dropped a division or relegated or plain to old, you can afford maybe one oldie like Barry at Everton but thats it. Good prem players go to other Prem Clubs. Adomah has a chance but he will be 31 bit old for winger.

    we will instantly lose the teams spine

  250. James Gill

    another contract for gabby and hutton really john
    we thought richards would left last summer
    bacuna has had 4seasons to prove that he was pl standard ,it has been 47months to many
    sunday people did fixture book yesterday most teams average age last season was 27/8 years of age all on my list are 30 or over by then

  252. Trinity

    Darren
    “John Terry meh, sorry I don’t see him as any sort of saviour, I see a racist, I see someone who thinks with his middle leg,,,”
    Pretty harsh comments. That circus was years ago. I do think, though, that Chester deserved to keep the armband.

  253. Trinity

    Mark
    I think many see Villa having another also ran season. I’m hoping for the best, but the lack of goals seems ominous. JL’s advice to just wait and see sounds sensible. The trick to being a Villa fan is not to get too frustrated, which, I know, is easier said than done.

  254. DarrenO

    Hi Lana, I don’t see anything harsh in what I said about JT, It’s the truth and well documented.

    Should I ignore his misdemeanours and blindly think we’ve a 36 yo Chelsea star on our books and go wild with anticipation of seeing this colossus of a man who will slay all before him, I willn’t my arse.

    MK

    That and the Hisense deal are paving the way for a lucrative Chinese bankrolling of future purchases of players like Ryan Giggs, Teddy Sheringham and Neville Southall.

    I will say I’m pretty peed off that Ireland isn’t considered overseas for the purposes of getting to see Villa, back to just Sky and some dodgy handheld phone on FB.

  255. OldVilla

    All, what sad comments by so many on here. Blimey, you dont even let the season start and its all gloom and doom – when the reality is that none of us know how things will pan out. But some of the comments are a bit close to insults. Hidden by winking smillies …….
    So JL, apologies but I will be taking one of my sojourns now for a month or two, like many others who used to be on here, as there is no balance in the comments made. I dont think that the comments that will appear if we dare to even draw a game will be reasonable. Sometimes I think that various people want the Villa to fail. Many of those who are no longer on here have said to me that they wont be back until there is a more balanced outlook.

    So I wish you all a good start to the season, support your club no matter what and always remember that you are the Villa and Villa are best ……….

    oldvilla

  256. John Lerwill

    Iana: “I think many see Villa having another also ran season. I’m hoping for the best, but the lack of goals seems ominous. “

    Hence my forecast that there may well be a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 wins – i.e. 1-goal margins, with the defence keeping out the opposition in the main.

    We will score … I still say that I thought last Saturday’s first half very promising, and against PL opponents. Whelan’s passing may well be the key to progress this season, with Elmo’s help.

  257. Trinity

    Hi Darren
    “Should I ignore his misdemeanours and blindly think we’ve a 36 yo Chelsea star on our books and go wild with anticipation of seeing this colossus of a man who will slay all before him, I willn’t my arse.”
    You can say what you like. However to accuse someone of being racist based on his antics from years ago does seem harsh to me. It was dealt with in the courts years ago. That is irrelevant to Villa in 2017. It’s part of another man’s life that is none to do with me. What does matter is what he’ll bring to the table for Villa. That remains to be seen. We know he’s hugely competetive, successful and experienced at the top. Whether that will come through for us is what should be of concern. He is long in the tooth, but in good nick. And good luck to him. If he does well, chances are Villa will, too. No, you don’t need “to go wild with anticipation….” None of us do.
    UTV

  258. Heroes-and-Villans

    Haha villa fans….moan moan moan. Never change!

    Terry is a coup….could of gone prem, abroad, wherver…..and we moan about him!!

    Oldvilla, keep going mate, balance and be fair!

    Again we are building a team to go up. Thats our vision and we have a plan. Go up and we build a new tea m much like what the genuis wagner is going at huddy.

    But for now we are trying to get a team to win the championship.

    Which to be fair is good enough…..over to you bruce.

  259. DarrenO

    OV
    The very fact that there is both positive and negative opinion about how people see Villa tells me that this is exactly a balanced forum, if you do need to live in happy, happy land and ignore the realities of an underperforming Villa side from last season influencing the opinion of some of the members on here, that is fine. But I don’t get this attention seeking approach by dismissing anything deemed negative in your eyes with continuous threats of departure.

    I’m not attempting to push you out the door, I’ve no right to nor am I asking you to stay because it is your decision but debate is so much better when you participate, not walk away.

    None of us truly know each other in this group, hence my suggestion that we all meet up later in the season, shake the hands and share a drink but there is no attempt as I see it to try and dominate opinion.

    I don’t see this forum in terms of negativity or positivity, I see people expressing their opinions on how they see Villa, there is no doubt we all want Villa to win, how we go about it may differ but so what. Take JL, highly educated as I see him and very pragmatic in his approach and clearly willing the best out of every player (even Gabby) or JG or MK who speak passionately about how they see Villa has fallen and are willing Villa to become a team they can be proud of in terms of personnel/tactics/results.

    Absolutely should we dare to draw a game there will be reaction, why shouldn’t there be, we may be saying we were denied by a keeper in top form or we may be saying that we were atrocious in front of goal but should we not make any comment at all then AVL and any other forum becomes pointless.

    Hi lana

    There is no accusation of racism, he made the comments, it went to trial and I don’t believe leopards change their spots they just get better at hiding them.

    Hi Andrew

    I’m probably the only one on here moaning about Terry. I’m afraid my opinion is clouded by his off-field persona and my own moral code which means I can’t ignore his past. If you think an injured 36 yo is a coup, then so be it. In football terms, it is a short term gamble, my preference for Villa has always been it’s long term development, I’ve no issue with not being in the Prem, we didn’t deserve it given how Lerner ran the club but having been relegated and got an engaged new owner my nirvana state would have loved to see us develop the football side through investment in young players, (not kids although that should and is happening), what I see both last season and this season is uncoordinated attempts at plugging up holes to see if a formula gets us promoted. The only planning happening is at underage level.

  260. Mark King

    OV- This talk of balance is overblown, if you look across the net there are many Villa fans that are worried about the lack of goals, the article I posted from 7500toholte where 5 writers who are usually pretty good don’t see Villa going up!! that astounded me but its their view from where we are not where we might be in a few weeks, thats looking at the world as it is now not how it could be.

    I have been on this Blog for a good few years (wish I could find the door 🙂 ) and I remember a much more acidic atmosphere than todays version at times, and I remeber a better sense of community and tolerance too (sign of the times?) there were posters I wish were still on here with way stronger views than my own appear to you. The Steamers never held back nor Runtingz or Frem or Jen for that matter if they felt strongly about something for right or wrong which they always did.

    I have said it before I was you the ultra positive poster, was I being positive/balanced? not to me I was just arguing my point of View that at the time I thought Garde could do a job and it was a bit of Banter. I can tell you for a fact that many do not post because they are being told to change their views constantly when what they are saying is their truth. I could not care less if someone is balanced or not its only a point of view.

    As for some hidden meaning behind Emoji’s? its very hard to convey light heartedness in writing mate and fight your corner, if we were talking in a room it would not be with anger and a scowl on my face I can tell you that much. If you choose to interpret peoples use of Emoji’s (jl uses them extensively) as somehow digs or snide thats your view of the writer coming out? and quite likely not malicious at all. Take a look at Andrew’s comment above ” the genuis wagner is going at huddy” is him having a pop at me, do I care Na.

    If there are posters out there who no longer post because things are not balanced they should try going on other blogs where they will receive dogs abuse, they wont get that here, In the words of Steamer They must have blood likes gnats piss 😉

  261. John Lerwill

    OV,

    Yes, as Darren says, your comments would be missed to help in the balance, so it is sad to see you talking of having a break. So, too, that others share your opinion and want to stay away because of their perceived imbalance.

    OV I think that some of what is posted here also reflects the frustration of the past 5 or 6 years when all we’ve seen is awful club management. Even though I like the Doc there have been times under him when errors have been made, but as he communicates and that there appear to be good things building I remain patient.

    So there are some that are naturally sceptical of what’s going to develop: and especially sceptical of Bruce, clearly.

    But you and I know that we can only see what is developing as the season unfolds. I for one am opti based particularly on the signings of Whelan, Elmo and Terry, especially after last Saturday and seeing Whelan’s passing ability.

    But, hey, you know how the press is … bad news is good news for newspapers, isn’t it, and perhaps some bloggers take that line as well, partly to soften the frustration of the last 6 years I suppose.

    But reading some of what is posted here does make me wonder how we got through some equally frustrating times in the 50s and 60s. But then blogging didn’t exist, of course!

    However, blogging does have a positive side – and that is in keeping in touch with Villa fans, especially (like me) when you can’t get to matches.

    Hope to see you OV!

  262. Mark King

    JL- speaking personally no I do not take the Bad news line, if things were wonderful I think you would see posts after the match of Joy and then nothing until next match day, the blog would be dead quite probably as it is when there is no news 🙂

    My frustration comes from a chance missed to build something worthwhile at Villa from the start of Xia’s reign,(we may get there eventually but we are taking the long way IMO although it is Bruces idea of direct to the prem).

    As I see it we will have if promoted to start yet again and maybe with another manager and style (although I doubt they will sack Bruce if promoted? which means maybe another season lost to where I would like us to be going.) So three seasons in to supply the old Stoke at Villa Park. Things appear to be happening at Youth level only to bring a less defensive style to our play, two opposites. A more progressive manager in since the start I think would see us challenging this season but being more integrated as a club/ethos from youth to 1st team.

    I do think some of the positivity presented by the papers is just as inaccurate at times usually as it is propaganda from the club 😉

  263. Trinity

    Yep. I remember back to 2011. Mark was consistently positive and optimistic. I think Darren was too and used to write optimistic leaders.
    I hope the team give us something to cheer about this year. I agree that six years of poor results has frustrated fans and made most of us that post here more balanced in our assessment of our club. That is actually a good thing.

  265. Heroes-and-Villans

    No doubt we have been through the mill…we will be unlucky to go through the dark times of learner at our club again.

    But since the doc took over you can feel the better/positive atmosphere around vp on matchday.

    god it was poison the last 4 years. negative and hostile.

    much better now.

  266. John Lerwill

    Trinity: “I remember back to 2011. Mark was consistently positive and optimistic. I think Darren was too and used to write optimistic leaders.”

    Yet that was the time when optimism was *least* warranted! 🙂

    Now is the time for that optimism in my view – not necessarily 100% kiss-their-feet commitment, but maybe warranting 70-80% +ve view of things to come.

  267. Mark King

    JL- it was being positive because I glimpsed with Garde the chance of a different future, with Bruce just more of the same on the pitch. Maybe its time to be positive purely because if we fail next season it will be a right mess, and then we may have to start down the road of planned progression over big spending short term gain.

    Burns Quote, quite true mate applies to OV too 😉

  270. James Gill

    iana
    john terry disgusts me for all his past sins,and with all thats gone on at villa seems crazy to put all our faith in a man 37 at xmas who hasnt played regular for2years, and when he played last year was brutal ina team going for league,

  271. James Gill

    andrew
    thats nonesense on garde,he was completly stitched up by lerner the 3/4 players he wanted 2 went to sunderland and kept them up,lescott richards and gabby let the club fans and other players down and 2 of them are still here,one thing if garde had been here last summer there would have been complete clearout and no buys like ross at nearly 30 for 12/3 m adoamh at 29 for 5m

  273. John Lerwill

    Andrew: “Awful man management and was just foxs mate! The only reason he was hired!”

    Yes, I’d go with that. Probably Mark was attracted by his coaching abilities?

  274. James Gill

    johnl
    garde awful man manmanagement with what players he certainly didnt burn money they way the great man manger bruce has done
    ross 12m gates story be lucky to get 3m now
    gollina sacked italian coach be lucky to get 1.5m

  275. Mark King

    Garde arrived because the management wanted to do Moneyball (develop players)as Lyon did and he set that up, also we had a massive split between English and French speakers and he had been in as a player at Arsenal when Wenger arrived and acted as an intermediary.

    I don’t believe that in the situation and the decisions the management (lerner) had made anyone would of got money or kept us up. You only have to look at the massive wage bill and the £83m loss revealed that things were going Tits up.

    2011? don’t think I was on here then my dad died in 2013 and thats when I began blogging as he used to have a giggle at the arguments on here. I liked the idea of developing players it was just done poorly, some of the players we bought and ruined is a crime.

  278. Heroes-and-Villans

    james

    that is not nonsense re gardei

    sat at vp through most of his games….zzzzz

    You think bruces footy is bad, dear god it was torture under him and he wasn’t man enough to handle the dressing room.

  279. John Lerwill

    Losing A Dad

    Commiserations to both of you.

    I lost mine in 1976 – almost exactly 41 years ago. Carried me on his shoulders at my first game ca. 1951. Born just after Villa won their 1910 championship and died 5 years before the next (last) championship.

    Funny thing – both Villa fans but we used to argue about them! I’m still doing the same with Mark! 🙂

  280. Mark King

    JL/Andrew- thanks lads 4 years now they are tough to lose.

    Andrew- Garde took over the worst assembled squad I have seen much worse than Bruce got, top that off with Tim making the division in the squad worse before he left I don’t think we saw the best of garde as maybe he expected to much professionalism from the players and Gabby was at his worst. I do think we began to see some changes in the play in Jan we were top 4-5 on results, Things were improving right up until the West ham game who we were all over and should of got a pen but then Ayew threw a strop and got sent off, he was our top man at the time and that was that.

  281. Mark King

    strange isn’t it but apart form the fiasco of Richards and the last prem teams defence we have not found a way of scoring goals since Tim had benteke and delph and tried to attack, we have got ever more defensive or at least incapable of more than one goal a game.

  284. Haggis

    Mark.
    Can you please send a link to where we can watch all the games for £110.
    Is it any good or is it like the old Villa Streams

  293. John Clark

    Back from a brief holiday. As always, great debate…I do think, for what’s it’s worth, that the site is rather balanced. No one can control individual appraisals, but the opinions given are well considered, and things stay about as polite and convivial as you could ask for on the interwebs.

    At any rate, new post is up, and there’s also a small favor I’m asking at the end.

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