Aston Villa sent Newcastle down once upon a time, and now they’ve helped Newcastle to a championship by digging in a man down to claw back a well-deserved 1-1 draw against league-leading Brighton and Hove Albion. Maybe it will smooth over some of the rancor with the barcodes. But where’s the fun in that?

A game that could’ve seen Villa up three before Sam Johnstone was called on to make a meaningful save  looked to have come undone in the 64th minute when, against the run of play, Glenn Murray won a penalty decision and Nathan Baker was sent off.

But playing out the final 26 minutes a man down, Villa didn’t hang their heads, and Jack Grealish once again came off the bench and found the back of the net on his patented infield cut. This time his effort denied the Seagulls a win and a title.

Going into the game, Villans wanted something positive after last week’s very poor showing. Did we get it?

The Good
Yes. That was an encouraging performance. Brighton had everything to play for, Villa nothing but pride, and Villa showed some. They kept playing after going down on the score board and player count, saw out the Seagulls’ push for a second, and applied pressure of their own with 10 men that led to an equalizer to reward their efforts. They never really looked like they were playing with 10, and did not retreat into a damage-limitation shell.

Moreover, Villa accomplished this against the league’s top team at kick-off with neither Jonathan Kodjia nor Mile Jedinak playing. Instead of being cowed by not having the two players who’ve seemed most integral to any of Villa’s successes, the players remaining stepped up and played a decent game. We can debate the quality of the Championship, but given we were mid-table and 30 points off the pace, it’s all relative.

I’ll also leave it up to you whether it’s good that the players also seemed to be giving Steve Bruce a vote of confidence. It would’ve been all too easy to capitulate if they wanted a new gaffer. And who knows, maybe they just had a point to prove for themselves. Maybe they were tired of hearing about Kodjia and Jedi. Maybe they were embarrassed from the week before. Maybe they cared enough about the home fans. Maybe they didn’t want to see Brighton hoist the trophy at Villa Park. Who knows. But, when players are done with a manager, it usually shows up on the pitch. I didn’t see any signs they were done with Bruce.

Also on the good side of the ledger were Keinan Davis and James Bree’s performances. Davis grew into the game, showed some confidence and skill, and could end up posing a legitimate threat. Bree looked much more composed and assured than he had previously. Obviously, for them to progress, they’ll need to play more. Summer will be very important for those two, especially Bree with de Laet due to return, and Hutton still on the books. And now that I think about it, Davis might have a role to claim with Kodjia being out till sometime after the start of the 2017-18 campaign, and the extent of Hogan’s injury yet to be determined.

The Bad
For me, a couple-three things stand out. First off was Hogan getting injured again. He’s had nothing but setbacks since he arrived, and has never had a chance to really get going. The key here is him getting healthy over the summer. Bruce has extended the olive branch to Ross, which makes sense given that it appears he’s been going through a rough spot personally, and challenged him to get fit and make his case. That’s all well and good, but to count on him being a force at this point would be foolish.

Second was the continued lack of cohesion in midfield. What I see is that players in the middle of the park often have no easy option presented by another teammate, nor an outlet option dialed into the set-up, such as a crossfield ball to someone they know will likely be unmarked. Players are often receiving the ball with their backs to goal and under pressure. Moves stall because they either choose to go backward, or attempt a difficult pass or through ball. Oh, to have a Gareth Barry once again…

Third would be poor individual decision-making, which likely ties into point two above. Often we saw players getting themselves into trouble instead of doing something simple. Too often they don’t seem to anticipate each other well, and don’t seem, once again, to have predetermined patterns to help each other and provide outlets. One of the things Neil Taylor does well is just make a decision, like putting it into touch instead of trying to get free and risk turning it over or making a bad pass that just sees the opponent coming right back at them.

The Ugly
Really, I didn’t see much ugly from Villa, so I’m going to go with Sidwell’s foul on Hogan. I said yesterday I thought it was cynical, and I still do. I don’t think he meant to injure Hogan, but he certainly stepped into the player’s legs with no attempt to play the ball, and did so forcefully. It’s fine to put yourself about, it’s okay to send a message with a tough, but fair challenge. It’s not okay to go into a player when you know the ball will be gone and the player will be vulnerable. Hogan was clearly in a lot of pain and is likely very lucky he didn’t break his leg or ankle.

The officiating overall? Well…That could almost always fall into The Ugly. It did Sunday, certainly.

Final Verdict
I probably covered most of this above, but my takeaway is that the team does have some fight and spirit. And probably enough talent—assuming the players that seem inevitable to arrive over the summer address our real needs. What’s still missing is cohesion and the structure in play that makes cohesion possible.

Maybe this is all going on in training and just takes a while to stick. Maybe Bruce has tried too many variations. It all gets a bit confusing, really.

But I think Villa could become a formidable side (formidable enough, anyway, for the Championship) if we just know what we’re trying to do, have the right players to do it, and settle on a starting XI and formation that all work together. Of course, that would describe any good team. So…

We’ll get to more of the season-wide details in upcoming installments, but for now, I feel better than I did last week.

Over to you.

Comments 187

  1. Didn’t see the game, it’s a month of Communions and Confirmations, the only thing I’ll say is why did it take until the last game of the season to show some fight and spirit.

    My answer is that the players can’t handle the pressure of playing for Villa, apart from Gabby none of them rose to the occasion of the derby, they absolutely need a kick up their respective arses if they want to achieve anything with Villa.

    Again Bruce is saying the right things and recognises the issues but he’s recognised the issues previously. I hope for Villa’s sake that Bruce does know what he is doing and we see a very different Villa next season.

    Read elsewhere that Bruce says he needs three transfer windows to sort out Villa, one down, one very soon upon us and an owner who quite rightly doesn’t rate how Villa have performed over the season and probably was a bit generous in his rating.

    All the best Villa lifers for the close season, hopefully there will be good weather to enjoy and some interesting transfer moves.

  2. Good morning. Nice summary of the match, JC.
    I hope Villa do know what “we’re trying to do”. Like yourself and Darren I hope SB knowswhat he’s doing, or where/when to get needed expertise in.

    I agree with Darren that SB is again saying all the right things. What has changed is that the coming season is where everything is expected to come together, no excuses. There is no longer anywhere to hide. It’s a tough job, but Villa expects every man and woman to do his/her duty. There does need to be a big change in attitude.

  3. Iana,

    Thanks for the generous thanks (previous thread)! I much prefer the more family orientated thing on this site compared to other sites, and so this is where I appear to have pitched my tent!

    But a week does not go by without me thinking of Gary (Steamer) and also Jenny … whose time is now taken up with more urgent matters. And Matt, whom we’ve also not heard from for some time.

    JC,

    Thanks for your comments too, with which I reciprocate … as a “sparring partner”, you’ve not pushed me to using my uppercut! 😀

  4. JC,

    Yes, I thought the team’s attitude on Sunday was much closer to the mark.

    There are clearly difficulties in understanding that have to be eradicated, and though I like them I can’t really see Albert and Baker being first choice next season. And neither Bacuna.

    So I feel that’s where SB’s 2 or 3 positions are going to get changed, and also bearing in mind that we have Green, RHM, de Laet and the Jedi to return at the start of the season, I have every reason to feel that it will all take shape nicely. With those extra 2 or 3 being signed, that is.

    DOR rightly questions why it’s taken until the last game of the season to see cohesion of some better form, and that’s a good question. I think I have stated my case as to why, but I’m going to let the past be the past now and when we get there instead look solely at the situation at the start of the new season. I think we’re all agreed that’s the time when we will expect to see signs of real progress and nothing else will be acceptable to long suffering fans.

  5. Darren,

    There does seem to be a problem handling the pressure. I know I don’t have a quick answer to how you fix that, but perhaps someone should convince them they’re still playing for their previous clubs, never mind the kit. Or stadium.

    One can only hope that when Bruce says the right things he has some idea of how he’s going to address the deficiencies. Like him or not, we’d all be happy if he succeeds.

  6. Iana,

    There is indeed nowhere to hide anymore. Fair play to Bruce, he’s stood up and been honest and seems to be handling the pressure. But, as JL said, at some point the past is the past and it’s time for the club to produce.

    And, I agree, in terms of looking for help, Villa really have to be fitter, recover better, and apparently train better. I hope Bruce isn’t placing his faith in the wrong people.

  7. JL,

    Cheers. I can just see you smooth-talking me in close then me asking everyone what happened. 😉

    I guess on incomings, I’d agree with you. We ought to be good enough in several positions. I’m not as worried about Adomah, but Bacuna is in that spot where we really need someone with a great footballing brain. He has the physical assets, but as you’ve said before, the decision making leaves something to be desired.

    Baker? If nothing else, he’s almost always injured. And if Ciaran Clark is right, and no one ever coached him on the position at Villa, maybe someone could help Baker out. You’d think Brucie could do that. But Baker probably needs to be second choice to a big, fast bruiser back there.

    If we’re lucky, though, and the summer is good to us injury-wise, will be interesting to see what Bjarnason and de Laet bring, and whether, Green, RHM and Davis can make their cases. They’re unpolished, but they all have upside. They just need a chance to play, and when that chance comes, they have to take it. Summer will be huge for them.

  8. Interesting how all of a sudden we can play a good game not just with out Jedi or Koja but with out both. We need to work on this through the summer once they are all back from Cost Del Wherever. We can not afford to lose games next season like we did this just because one of those two is missing.
    Hogan I am relating to Laursen, and praying that like Martin who had a terrible start to life at Villa Park injury wise became a king pin for us in the end. I believe he will come good and i really like what I’ve seen of Connor Hourihain, but Lansbury i still cant make my up on him, he seems to blow hot and cold as they say.
    Get goalie sorted asap, and i don’t mind Sam back as long as he is signed not loaned, otherwise move on and get some one in we can call our own.

  9. JC,

    No, I don’t think Albert is a poor player, but just does not offer enough dynamism for me.

    However, if Green were playing on the left, a joint wing force could have a devastating affect.

  10. Thanks JC- maybe the upturn was to do with Bruce saying we need to strengthen in all positions? 🙂

    We turned in one of our better footballing performances but we did not win, so no wins under Bruce without Jedinak and precious few without Kodjia. we also played very well for a half against PNE without Jedinak, one if not the best we played this season, At least we went forward if not in unison but at usual we were profligate in front of goal, I could forgive us not being dazzling if we could finish, I hope Bruce is going to teach them how to shoot in the summer, and Pass, and move, and recognise each other, and ……………. how many months is the summer? 😉

  11. A small fact

    Only ONE team since the Premier League was formed has gained promotion back to the top flight within three years of relegation as the Premier League’s bottom side, after failing at the first attempt

    This does sound very familiar doesn’t it?

    Whilst it is claimed that Bruce will most certainly develop an identity for Aston Villa, in line with Steve Round’s “Villa Way” idea, past experience would seem to cast some doubt on this actually happening. The Guardian considered the identity of Bruce’s Sunderland team after two and a half seasons build and £87m spend in the following way,

    “Always rather amorphous, if not downright scrappy, Sunderland’s high-tempo style lacked creativity, not to mention control, in central midfield. Unable to dictate play, the team frequently failed to press home early advantages.”

    both from this Moms article which is right about where I sit, can a leopard change its spot and move with the times? on this seasons performance its a no from me promotions or not.

  12. Thanks for the article JC.
    Mark It’s a long 2 months until preseason, seems like years already, maybe we need a holiday.

  13. Yep, time to take a break from villa and get some rest!

    Because when the season hits its going to be intense, no excuses and pressure on. Bruce has to deliver end of.

    Not even excited about signings as I love the boys we got in jan and they have had a slow start.

    I would say we need more pace all over the pitch.

  14. JC
    I think it leaves one too tired to get obsessive [for a while], then we can practice on the cricket & the Lions.

  15. IanG
    I’m looking forward to the Lions in NZ. I think they’ll win their first game and one test.
    JL
    Enjoy a wee holiday, you deserve it.
    JC
    Agree about Bacuna (inconsistent) and Baker (consistently injured). Gabby is also consistently injured.

  16. lana
    I’m not sure how many tests there are, maybe 4?
    I think it stands a chance of being closer than that as the standards have improved in the northern hemisphere.
    Unfortunately I will not be able to pick up internet mostly in August, so will probably be missing from here.
    I hope the foreign AVTV streams will enable proxies or we’ll be stuck with the radio again with the new cunning plan.
    Mind you there will probably be more chance of picking up a stream with it actually existing outside of UK.
    Here in the UK I can’t even open the sky clips as it states I’m in an area where they can’t be viewed???
    They’re taking the mickey, but I suppose they don’t want to feel left out as the rest of the world seems to be doing the same.
    Greedy ba*****s.
    Might also be some entertainment in the summer of a Nixonian flavour, which will lessen the pain.

  17. Signings from Barnsley

    I was intrigued to find the following data on players that have come from Barnsley over the years…

    Reeves, George, Midfielder, 1907-08-1909-10 Let go because of his small stature, but a good player.
    Barson, Frank, Midfielder-ch, 1919-20-1921-22 Said to be one of Villa’s greatest players.
    Blanchflower, Danny, Midfielder, 1950-51-1954-55 Great player. Captain of 1961 Spurs ‘Double’ side.
    Gray, Stuart, Midfielder, 1987-88-1991-92 Not a bad player.

    And now we have Conor Hourihane and James Bree.

    Not a bad group of players from a small club. Before Hourihane, 3 of the 4 players listed became Villa captains.

  18. Thanks lana
    The Lions reserves are all full on national team stalwarts not fringe players, & I think they are taking more than usual.
    If there’s only 3 tests then 2-1 would be close either way.
    The provincial sides in NZ have an advantage in that they play in settled sides, & wouldn’t just play people to include them to keep up fitness.
    But I’m sure the Lions management have got this well in hand.

  19. What has happened to the discussions on the rights and wrongs of Steve Bruce, reduced to talk of egg chasing and cricket for the summer, it may well be a time to re-charge the Villa batteries in preparation for elation or disappointment depending on what Mr. Bruce does.

  20. DOR
    Indeed, a hiatus trying not to take the forsyth’s name in vain for as long as possible seems in order.
    There may well be prizes.
    Aren’t you boys chasing eggs on tour right now?

  21. JL
    Didn’t know that we got Danny Blanchflower from Barnsley.
    Remember Stuart Grey, yes not a bad player.
    Better than the coalmines from Barnsley, but they also had a lot of disasters, sadly fatal, especially in the 30’s .
    Happily we missed out on Mick McCarthy, but I loved Dickie Bird [sorry Darren].

  22. A few Irish lads got the call up to the Lions, despite me going to a rugby school and having a certain appreciation for the game, I’d rather all year round football , they’re certainly paid enough.

  23. Is it true AVFC had its origins in a group of cricketers, who wanted to play something else in the off season to keep them fit? Also, William McGregor pushed for setting up a baseball league in the UK.

  24. Darren,

    I’m with you. Fortunately, football never ends. They’ll be off for holidays for what, a month? Meantime, transfer rumors, then back to pre-season, and before you know it the pressure will really be on. This is like an international break, massive pressure and expectations to follow.

  25. It’s got me thinking about how different my life is to a footballers’, I work all year round thankfully except weekends and have a generous 5 weeks holidays to take in that timeframe.

    In contrast to footballers who’s visible working week is maybe 3 hours over two matches plus indeterminate training time but assume it only up to lunch time as most footballers could go semi pro in golf or seem to spend their time finding new parts of their bodies to get tattoo’d such is the excess time they have on their hands. Add to that the extortionate salaries they earn, add to that they retire in their late thirties whereas I’ll work till I’m 67.

    Boy do they have it so good and they’re revered for being able to kick a sack of air for 90 minutes. Imagine an alternative universe where doctors, nurses, fire fighters, police were hero worshipped and paid accordingly to the contribution they make to society.

    Right, time to stop thinking of the lack of parity in life and search for a deeper meaning to/reason for my existence.

  26. DOR: “Imagine an alternative universe where doctors, nurses, fire fighters, police were hero worshipped and paid accordingly to the contribution they make to society.”

    And teachers, of course, education being arguably the most important. I’m sure you meant to include it. However, the type of education also needs to be re-thought in that “alternative universe”.

    I was looking at the Cardinal Newman approach the other day and found it to be much nearer the ideal in tertiary education. In my opinion, of course.

    Talking of “alternative univereses” I’m quite impressed with the Labour Manifesto – draft or not!

    Bu water should also come back into the public domain i.m.o.

  27. Agreed on teachers, an obvious omission once pointed out

    Agree again on the labour manifesto, I’m quite surprised by what I’d consider working class Villans who are acquaintances or friends on Facebook who place so much focus on deriding Corbyn to the point that they wouldn’t vote Labour and suggest that the Tories are the genuine alternative. There really needs to be an end to the celebrity of politics as a reason to vote for one person or another even if Corbyn is prettier (just) than May and a return to an assessment of manifesto as the core to a voting decision.

    However, any reflection on political history would show that the Tory party are not the natural bedfellows for the general populace in Britain, their general social class, educational background, life’s privileges lends themselves to look after a certain percentage of the community and have some sort of principle that once business gets richer, there is some sort of trickle down effect as opposed to raising the lowest (in perception) of society to be able to achieve more.

    There may be some sort of natural order that requires worker ants and for those worker ants to remain at that level but for a country to be highly regarded it has to be in it’s social policy. Look at the great places to live and the criteria never refers to how wealthy the rich are but how wealthy the poor are in terms of education and health services, job prospects and general standard of living.

    Clearly there are other parties such as LibDems, Greens but the mindset is focussed on two parties and I know who I’d vote for if I had a vote in Britain and it’s not Tory.

  28. Darren,

    Yep. Totally agreed. It seems to me that the British electorate (except Scotland) has been lured into a brainwashing process this last 10 years – aided by UKIP, who I think were paid to do create the diversion! – and have overlooked what mess the Tories really do create.

    Blair’s lot didn’t do much better but – as you say – if you were voting for policies you’d vote for Corbyn’s version of Labour hands down. I’ve had so many problems in trying to switch energy suppliers and goodness knows what else that I’m fed up to the teeth with privatisation.

    And what about fracking?

  29. JL/DOR
    You’ve totally surprised me.
    Brainwashing through fear is May’s game, which Cameron & Osborne & IDS imprinted further into the national DNA.
    Their advisor introduced american presidential methodology to the UK elections with all the dishonesty, self centredness & corrupt practices that came with it

  30. I keep on accidentally pressing the go button so it cut me off.
    Here’s the rest of the post:

    /It has been forgotten, but many of the younger tories went to Tea Party training camps for indoctrination, & much of the ruthlessness seems to have been amplified by that.
    It also appears that the Russians were infecting the whole Brexit thing with clickbait & social media disinformation.
    People really seem to be sheep in this context.
    UB40 used that methodology over 18 months before they ever did a gig creating a buzz that formed a group mind before anyone had even heard them.
    Same kind of manipulation & button pressing for power & control & money.
    The name in that context says it all.
    Yes people should vote as we get the governments we deserve if we don’t.

  31. Of course Corbyn’s policies are the most attractive on offer in this election . . . . on paper.
    It would be lovely to think think that it could be different this time but in reality, despite his undoubtedly sincere concern for the working man, unemployment would be higher at the end of his first term in the same way that it has been after every single labour government.
    But why is this?
    Ths truth is that people strive to improve the prospects of themselves and their families. If you reduce the opportunities for people to better themselves then you also reduce the incentives for people to work hard, earn more and pay more of the taxes we need for education etc.
    If you tax companies more then they have less money to invest and over time they become less successful, pay fewer taxes and create fewer jobs.
    A vibrant and incentivised business environment generates more tax which can then be used for education, health etc etc.
    We may all wish it was otherwise . . . . but it isn’t.

  32. robbo
    As a pensioner who’s been disabled for 30 years, all I can say is, as far as lessening poverty is concerned in the last 7 years, you really are talking bo****ks.
    If you actually talk to disabled people or look at disabled social media you will see the misery that has been caused them, their families etc by IDS & Cameron with their flagship measures against the poor & disabled.
    It costs more to police fraud than the total of any frauds to the welfare system.
    Dogma gone mad.
    May, the arrogant witch of the North, has gone from being the most draconian Home Secretary for decades torturing asylum seekers & many others by her unremitting cynical attacks, to now being so confident that the sheep will roll over that she is no longer worried about untruth being noticed.
    No one bothers to actually ask people of their experience any more, they just read the daily news & believe every word[courtesy of ‘Steely Dan’].

    Apart from that robbo, are you going to get a holiday before preseason or does cricket turn you on?
    I wish you well

  33. IanG, my point about ‘poverty’wasn’t a party political one. It was about extreme poverty throughout the world rather than in the U.K.
    On that score, humanity is doing a remarkably good job. It’s not been a good ‘enough’ job as there are still too many millions of people throughout the world in extreme poverty but the aspiration is to ‘completely’ eradicate the most extreme forms of poverty by 2030, and we’re on track to do that despite the continuing rise in worldwide population.

  34. IanG. I know that I am fortunate. However as it happens, I haven’t had a holiday for over 18 months. This isn’t because I can’t afford it, it’s because I haven’t quite found the time from trying to make a success of my business.
    When we bought it, the most important thing was to turn it round and return it to profit and save over 100 jobs. ( as it happens I took a pay cut to make a small contribution to that) One of the first things we did when we made a profit was to increase the pay of the lowest paid by 14% to take them well above the government’s minimum wage.
    The profits we’ve made have been reinvested into the business (apart from the profit share paid to all staff)
    We’ve also created over 20 new jobs in this period and moved many people from insecure seasonal contracts on to permanent ones.
    The big question is why are we doing it?
    I was going to retire, but was persuaded not to by the prospect of owning and saving the business that otherwise would by now have disappeared. I’d love to be able to say that it’s out of altruism but even I know that deep down that’s not the real reason. There are days when I wish I wasn’t doing it and that I’d retired when I planned to. I know that I have the ‘luxury’ of having had the choice.
    I’d feel guilty if I was to do that now, because we haven’t quite got the business to the level of security that I think it needs.
    The point though, is that if you take away the incentives for people to work hard and ‘go the extra mile’ then ultimately everybody suffers.
    I’m sorry if my comments were insensitive. I genuinely do know how tough it is for far too many people.
    It’s easy to blame those who are doing ok and to want to take more from them to give to those who aren’t. I believe that is understandable, but is also shallow thinking.
    Whilst we’d all love it to be different, the truth is that what drives individuals to do more is also, what ultimately will help everyone else.
    This system can of course be exploited by people like Phillip Green. Why do you think we hear so much about him though? If every business leader was the same, few of us would know his name. It’s because he is exceptional. . . . most owners and leaders of businesses are not like that. Those people are of course lucky to be where they are, but without them we’d all be far worse off, so they need to be encouraged not despised.

  35. r0bb0,

    I do applaud your approach. However, though Labour has been guilty of errors – and quite a few – over the years, I will say that the 1945-51 government had a vision and execution which was marvellous i.m.o. The problem was that the enforced austerity made people impatient and back came the Tories.

    But the trouble is that the Tories have a way of forgetting that people at the bottom of the heap are also mostly the exception who are the malingerers. As Philip Green may be the exception in his business attitude, the people who need state benefits are usually those who’d give their right arm for work – at least, work that pays well enough to be able to subsist and not zero-hour contracts.

    IanG mentions his disability. I am 73 living on a state pension and HB and my wife (who has 3 years to go before she’s 60) has got to the point where she’s given up getting back to work after several years of health issues, and yet the government have refused her JSA and (now) PIP. We can appeal, but we know from other people’s experience it’s a hard slog. And that slog can add extra stress on top of the health issues that already exist.

    We can’t afford the energy bills after a 40% hike in 6 months, and yet trying to switch suppliers is a nightmare.

    You haven’t had a holiday for 18 months? Well, it’s been 8 years since I have had *any* kind of break from these 4 walls and the garden. But I thank God for what I do have.

    r0bb0, I hear what you say, but on balance the Labour approach has always been more humane, and if you take the humanity out of living, what is there left? Going for growth to make things better for everyone is a sound idea on paper, but haven’t you noticed that we’re rapidly getting into climate change issues and related matters which do not auger well for the future of mankind. The striving for growth has to be curtailed and also the the great increase of income for the top few in this country and the world.

    r0bb0, you may think that people like Green are the exception – and you set a great example of how things can be – but at the very top of the pyramid are some quite ruthless people who effectively control what goes on in this world and some even perpetuate the evils that subsist.

    Ideally I’d vote for the Green Party, but Labour’s policies are good enough and they have more chance of actually making a difference than the Greens.

  36. r0bb0: “but the aspiration is to ‘completely’ eradicate the most extreme forms of poverty by 2030”

    Using Bill Gates’ approach that’s extremely likely. But not by legitimate means.

  37. John, the trouble is that politics tends to polarise discussions whereas in life there is spectrum of opinions.
    I have voted green in the past because I think it’s the most important political statement we can make but this time I will be voting Tory because I truly believe that the alternative would be desperately bad . . . not for me, but ironically, for the people who most need help.
    I say that because Corbyn and those around him now ‘may’ have sound motives, but they seem to have virtually zero understanding of what makes business work.
    For an example of what his type of politics will do I give you . . . Venezuela.
    An extremely fortunate country with huge mineral reserves, brought to its knees by a desire for equality amongst all people.
    We all know it’s a laudable aim, that is unarguable, but it ignores human nature to try and ‘better oneself’. You can call it greed but I think that is too emotionally charged a word.
    You mention Bill Gates and the immense good that he is now doing with the wealth that ‘he’ has created.
    I meet quite a lot of business owners and I recognise his outlook and motivation in far more of them than I see the motivations of a Phillip Green.

  38. In this election as in all others the discussions will revolve around negative emotions such as envy and greed.
    Discussions on the environment for years have focussed on what we have to ‘give up’ and things we must ‘do without’ in order to save the planet. What we should be discussing is what we can ‘gain’ by adopting environmentally sound practises.
    In our business we have made some big changes to how we operate in order to reduce waste and improve efficiency. Surprise, surprise, every single one of them has made us more profitable too.
    Some of the changes are making hundreds of thousands of pounds of difference, others (such as setting photocopier defaults to print two sides and in black and white) will save just a few thousands . . . but it all mounts up.
    The key point is that one person ‘doesn’t’ have to give something up in order for someone else to benefit.
    We need to find the way out of that viscious circle of thinking into a more virtuous circle where we both encourage success and also ‘encourage’ those who are doing well to spread the benefits more widely.

  39. Just one more example. We have worked a lot with charities, helping them to raise funds. In our first year we helped them raise over a quarter of a million pounds for a range of causes.
    Working with them helped keep our seasonal staff busy all year which enabled us to provide permanent contracts for them but linking to charities also improved our sales and profits too.
    We’re not ‘that’ unusual in this approach, lots of businesses are doing it.
    It’s just not very newsworthy though is it?
    Newspaper owners thrive on whipping up discord and division on both sides of the political divide so it suits them far more to talk about fat cats and scroungers than charity workers and philanthropists.

  40. r0bb0: “John, the trouble is that politics tends to polarise discussions whereas in life there is spectrum of opinions.”

    Which – I hope you don’t mind me saying – is fine talk when you’re one of the ‘haves’ and have not been subject to bullying from government agencies.

    There have been well offs who have tried the experiment of living on the state and found it not at all to their liking. Why put people in that position? Why employ a company like Capita – at some considerable cost – to prevent people from claiming support instead of providing that support without Capita? The whole system is a headache and is designed to make it so difficult for people to get their deserts that they often give up. Sometimes commit suicide.

    Sorry, r0bb0, what you’re doing is highly commendable and I know you’re not the only one. I was 20 years ago in the fortunate position of trying to do something similar.

    But you completely overlook the system that is managed (world-wide) by people who want the workers to be burning themselves up all their lives for peanuts under the guise of opportunity.

    Capitalism is a failed system and that is a fact well recognised. You have also ignored the argument I made that continual growth is not sustainable. You can clothe it in all kinds of arguments to try to indicate something different, but it’s proven that we are living unsustainably as far as Planet Earth is concerned.

    Yes, you’re right – “What we should be discussing is what we can ‘gain’ by adopting environmentally sound practises.” That has *always* been the case – ever since I was involved in this perspective 40 years ago. But we also need to realise that we waste our lives on things that are totally irrelevant to the purpose of living, and – for that reason – we should also ‘give up’ so much: in other words to put a ‘ceiling on our desires’. When I do that I feel a damn sight better.

  41. r0bb0: “In this election as in all others the discussions will revolve around negative emotions such as envy and greed.”

    Yes, that’s the Tory angle. But I – and many other people I know – have stuck with our ordinary roots and have forsaken the notion of envy. The word is just hype for the Tories to explain themselves away.

    I am much more interested in justice – for all existence, whether it be the planet, wildlife and human beings. Being accused of envy instead of the real reason for my being is pathetic.

  42. <b.r0bb0: "For an example of what his type of politics will do I give you . . . Venezuela.
    An extremely fortunate country with huge mineral reserves, brought to its knees by a desire for equality amongst all people."

    Yes, that’s what politics can do – when it’s failed to include a primary part of the equation: which is spirituality.

    Coming back to Tory vs Labour, I’m only arguing the topic because it’s a question of which is the most viable party to govern. Policy-wise it has to be Labour i.m.o. Especially as the Labour Party has mostly been about empathy for the poor in its existence. If Labour and other radicals had not acted, the Tory bosses would still have the working population enslaved. In fact, looking at what’s happened since 2010 we’re on the way back to the bad old days. At least back then houses were being built!

  43. John,
    Firstly, your point about continual growth being unsustainable.
    It depends on the ‘type’ of growth.
    If I create a nature reserve (something I hope to do one day) and open it to the paying public as an education centre that would add to our economic growth.
    When I was studying environmental biology 40 years ago, one of my most vivid memories was in a tutorial when we were discussing when we’d run out of oil. We’d all given dates around the end of the last century when one lad who’d been quiet up till then said ‘ I don’t think we’ll ever run out’
    At the time it felt shocking and faintly ridiculous, but it made me think, and that moment has stuck with me ever since.
    His two arguments were: that man is more resourceful than we give him credit for and will find a series of alternative sources of fossil fuels
    And . . . that if we look like running out we will find alternative ways of generating energy.
    I wish I could talk to him now and congratulate and thank him.
    Congratulate him for his foresight (he certainly had more than the rest of us)
    Thank him for giving me an alternative, more optimistic view of our future.

  44. r0bb0: “His two arguments were: that man is more resourceful than we give him credit for and will find a series of alternative sources of fossil fuels … And . . . that if we look like running out we will find alternative ways of generating energy.

    You make its sound as though man should be credited (with his resourcefulness) for what he’s done to the planet. You want to ‘thank him’ for that! 🙁

    All man has done is a lot of harm – and created tyranny … and if it comes to more exploitation then the planet would give up.

    Clearly you have not read of the need for conservation in the ancient scriptures.

    Yes, r0bb0, there is room for optimism, and a lot of it, but anything we do needs to be done according to wisdom and not assume that growth and intellectual resourcefulness is the answer. The ancient scriptures tell us of that and we would ignore them at our peril.

  45. John, your comment “fine talk when you’re one of the haves”
    I know :-/
    As I said in an earlier comment in this thread, ‘I know I’m fortunate’
    It’s not that I haven’t worked hard to create the opportunities I’ve had, but loads of other people have worked just as hard but not had the same breaks.
    Does that mean though that I should feel ashamed and disqualified from voicing my opinion?
    I know that I risk coming across as ignorant, insensitive or patronising but I think its fair enough to give an alternative view. It’s so much easier to voice left wing opinions (every luvvie seems to do it) as you sound so much more human, sympathetic and caring.
    If you’re one of the have nots then those opinions come from a different place of personal experience and will be heartfelt and passionately held.
    It’s hard to come across as sincere against that.
    The fact remains that we ‘need’ people to create the wealth that everyone wants to distribute.
    My ideal would be a culture where we welcomed the wealth creators and that they in turn recognised their responsibilities to use the income they generate positively.
    If we discourage or punish wealth creators everybody loses.
    Nobody can distribute income that doesn’t exist.
    In my personal experience, most business owners are much much closer to my ideal than you would ever imagine from the perception generated in the media.

  46. John, when I said that the discussion in this election will revolve around ‘envy and greed’ you took that to mean the Tory press.
    I chose those two words carefully to apply equally to the left wing and right wing media.
    You mention the need for spirituality and I agree. . . . and that includes the tenth commandment.

  47. robbo
    Your point of trying to feed the world population is valid & laudable IF we’re still here as a functioning civilisation in 30 years, as the situation is precarious.
    My point was not essentially party political as much as about active class warfare from the status quo which has nullified any opposition, & is raping & pillaging & destroying the planet starting with nullifying any potential opposition abusing the most vulnerable, as is also happening in many parts of the world & currently with USA having the highest profile.
    It’s where the international corporate super rich pay no attention to governments or national laws, or anything except their own greed, & manipulate using the frustration of the welfare of the populations that they ignore.
    My point about the realities people face is that it is difficult to just look at a slice of apparent positivity but ignoring actual human cost at the same time in a state of denial.
    It is more about educating & empowering the world population & keeping them alive in the process, but in any event you can only actually do what you can personally do yourself in the present, so being hamstrung by people abusing power & process makes the liberal aims null & void & the political lies stark.
    This is also very difficult to do when the super rich have no interest in it, as it does not lie easily with the power games that the status quo elites have forced on us for centuries, but currently are very unenlightened & destructive, & are destroying the planet & the people on it.
    If we start with aims of supporting those in a worse state than us, & at the same time being positively proactive in protecting the environment, then we may evolve ourselves out of a crisis.
    But it has to start with cutting the umbilical cord to the lies that we depend on every day when we take part in the game.
    Business has a large part in this with necessary ethical business that has been proven to benefit everyone including the workers, but it contra indicative to the current emphasis on greed, corruption & manipulation & abuse of power.
    I will vote for what is in any such manifesto we were talking about because anything else is supporting the current process because of fear or self interest or a well meaning blindness.
    Those of us who unfortunately live on the sharp end are targets every day, so if we make the effort not to be in our own bubble, the least we expect of you all is to try & disengage & wake up.

  48. Its a complex subject folks but I wonder what the life on this planet thats going extinct by the day thinks about our right to afford Netflix or have huge house to rattle around in or own the land (as if we can) or three square meals even? We are so detached from nature theses days that it would not take much to destroy us.

    I see Bill Gates was mentioned? to my knowledge he is pushing GMO’s and Vaccinations both which have dubious benefits and his motives are far from clear, some say he is into population reduction big time and his investments seem to bear this out. Shame that someone with his clout does not get behind more natural methods but there’s no profit in that.

    Global warming? another sketchy subject as the sun is in a 60 year cooling cycle (20 years in I believe) and CO2? plants love it the deserts are greening the more we have without extra water! imagine that. Its the pollution and heavy metals, pesticides, plastics etc we have to curtail, saw the latest Craze on a stall today, a bit of spinning plastic? WTF? Technology should be used for the betterment of the people and the world as a whole not for profit, no holding back to sell old stock.

    Can’t say there is anyone worth Voting for anymore but vote we must.

    JL- yes I saw that article and it does make me wonder why we bought the lad?

  49. The U18’s beat Stoke 3-0 & are top of their league
    We always seem able to do very well on these levels but it doesn’t seem to translate into the first team.
    How does this quotent relate to other clubs, & why is it so low?

  50. we have a new coach at U18 level ex Wales youth and virtually a new team, as for why we don’t do better? simple for me we don’t play the same tactics they play when I have seen them at senior level.

  51. IanG: “in any event you can only actually do what you can personally do yourself in the present”

    Absolutely. And in that r0bb0 illustrates exactly what his commendable approach is in that regard. But unfortunately based on what I perceive to be old concepts that existed when we didn’t understand as much about ourselves and our environment as we do now and when our vision was limited.

    This tendency to look back to reclaim the “Great” in Great Britain, for example, via Brexit, is so illustrative of how we refuse to learn from our mistakes. Mind you, the EU has a lot to blame for its bureaucratic approach is another hangover from the past. These two old ways of thought have well and truly collided.

    True progress will indeed come from understanding based on a willingness to be less selfish, but that understanding may not come without some harsh lessons first.

  52. MK
    I’m not sure that is the whole story, but some form of unified approach would surely help.
    Isn’ that what Round is supposed to be doing?

  53. JL
    I don’t think it is possible to directly change anything totally conceptually in the first place.
    The view of needed social change may be conceptual, & apparently with some connection to what we conceive of as ‘the past’, but to begin it has to start in the present & constantly reaffirm that relationship, or it becomes part of the problem.
    This is the problem I have with robbo’s post rather than what he is apparently doing.
    Although it is welcome, without that affirmation it’s usefulness is limited, although he would probably have a similar problem with my post with different contexts.
    In this vive la difference, but awareness has to be the basis otherwise it’s black fighting white.
    It must be hard to be ethical in small business without this.
    The other problem I had was the perceived lack of acknowledgment of the connectivity & empathy between the two situations.
    As far as Brexit is concerned, it seems to me a worse deal than the one we had, with more opportunity for expanding greed etc.
    The main problem is neither, it is what is behind both, which is our ruling apparatus, which is easily subject to change unless there is great control, which means it isn’t so strong as it appears.
    It belongs to the public, in the sense that the public can easily change it if they have the will, as the voters are much stronger.
    The Brexit scenario has been a bit of a fraud as has been created by the ruling apparatus from within.
    The propaganda itself gives the people the illusion that they are in control.
    In fact it’s same old but probably less protection.

  54. JG
    There’s surely a few to go out & we do need about 4 players at minimum.
    Loans of quality would be welcome as it would provide competition, & there would be no point in getting a loan just to leave them always on the bench.
    Probably more to do with the high wages, especially the french & spanish on loan.
    I wonder if Hutton will go as I think his contract ends this season & he has a high wage & we have de Laet & Bree & Richards for one more year.
    Then there’s Samba

  55. r0bb0: “John, when I said that the discussion in this election will revolve around ‘envy and greed’ you took that to mean the Tory press. I chose those two words carefully to apply equally to the left wing and right wing media.”

    I ‘slept’ on that statement last night, and woke up this morning thinking the same … “What left wing media?”!

    I cannot think of any left-wing media of any size, whereas the Mail and the Sun are the papers that the great majority go for. You could point to the views of the Mirror, but i.m.o. they do not filter through to many.

    But Tories such as Jeremy Hunt have often referred to their opponents as representing the politics of envy. Jeremy Corbyn’s angle, on the other hand, is about justice, and that for me is what the big topic is about.

  56. JL I would say the vast majority don’t even read a paper of any view these days its all on line, people are more likely to be on facebook at lunch than doing the crossword, I have never known such an ill informed populace as today’s. Show them a starving child and mother and they will give money, they have empathy or guilt but the never question why they are starving ?after all you wouldn’t want to look heartless.

  57. “According to the new rules, Villa can lose up to £83m in three seasons without being penalised. But their last accounts show a deficit of £81.3m alone and unless spending is reduced drastically, the club could be hit hard.”

    Now if Wagner can get 18 players in for £3m net and be in the play offs thats a very good reason to get him in, same with Rowett when at bloes.

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-surprising-transfer-kitty-13032146

  58. Mark,

    Newspaper reading has certainly gone down in numbers but where I live you always see stacks of Mails and Suns for sale, with much lower numbers of other papers. And people buy the Mail and Sun in large numbers. I watch them do it.

    BTW, I read the ‘I’. Cheaper and much more succinct and realistic, and better than going on-line, when you tend to go for specific topics rather than the whole news.

  59. I would say that with half a build done and no real system in place we are in the do do, might of been wise to have blooded the youth players now eh?

  60. Mark,

    The Doc now says: “We only need strength in 2/3 positions, so it is nothing2worry about. Need change the culture ‘getting xx’ but building consistency!”

    I go with that. I’ve been saying “another 2/3 players” for months and feel that otherwise it’s a question of moulding a team together, maybe including the input of younger players – Green, RHM and Davis are already very much in Bruce’s view and have lately only been restricted by injury.

  61. IanG
    Having Sam J for another season would be good for stability for a while. That’s if he can eventually be a permanent player. Maybe Samba can score our goals:]

  62. Anyone else been watching the play off games and wondering if we’ll be involved this time next year?
    Have to say I’ve not been over-impressed with the two teams fighting it out today

  63. Having been a critic of Johnson I was really impressed with how he finished the season. He’d managed to put his early season indecision and errors behind him and was showing a little of the arrogance that goalkeepers need.
    His distribution is better than any we’ve seen for years and after several years of Guzan, it’s been such a relief to see a keeper who is prepared to come off his line and snuff out attacks at the earliest opportunity.
    Would be good news indeed to know that we had him for at least one more season.

  64. JL- on papers its just what I have observed personally.

    The doc is bound to say what he has said his hands are tied with FFP, the call to RMC to get fit says it all, I very much doubt Bruce wants him back but no Kodjia and an Injury prone so far flop in Hogan and other injury worries he is looking at crisis unless those injuries are addressed before the pre-season. What is he going to base his strategy on?

    Bruce has been calling for 2-4 quality players then changed it to we need players in all positions during the last few games, going on our last few games I don’t blame him.

  65. Robbo- Johnsons ok but like the rest of the defence not very effective without Jedinak, the period where he was making mistakes came when Jedinak was injured. Personally I would like to see a seasoned pro brought in but money being tight we won’t I presume.

    Jedinak by the way is expected to play fro the Aussies in June what a joke.

  66. failure to break into a team you never got a chance to play in wow, surprised that sellars has been ignored thought he looked the part under Tim Sherwood in pre-season, scored and made a few, I think wherever he ends up he will do well, Hale too.

    Bruce has already started offloading a host of unwanted players, and six Under-23s have been given the boot so far, with more exits imminent.

    Joonas Sundman is among the players leaving, and Tom Leggett, Joe Linley, Jerell Sellars, John Abdoul and Rory Hale have all been cut from the squad after failing to break into the first team as well.

  67. ian g
    hutton got a 1 year extension after triggering a clause so we have 4 rb bree hutton delaet richards
    is it any wonder we are going to break ffp
    this may seems worse than any for long time bruce is staying [not a clue what he is doing] spent a fortune yet we need
    keeper centre half and a midfielder that can actually play there
    another loan for johnson is a waste of time helping utd get experience for their player
    players i would like to shift
    hutton richards cissko elphik gardner gabby gil vertout

  68. Middlesbrough, Sunderland and Hull, could be worse, two know this division well and depending on there wages may not have to shed many players so will be threats. We could be playing half our old team in Middlesbrough next season too 🙂 Sunderland will be the real unknown. Hope Silva buggers off though from Hull.

  69. Mark: “We could be playing half our old team in Middlesbrough next season”

    No change there, then! Three of ours went there around 17 years ago – to win things. They got a League Cup I think.

  70. Afternoon all,

    Been away for a week or so so not been on here. Now whizzed through the comments on this thread and see that we are supposedly already in crisis for next season! Not looking good then. Maybe we can already discount next season and start having a panic about the 2018/19 season?
    Always look on the bright side of life tra la lala lala lala …….. or is that the gloomy side of life?
    Your ever smiling oldavilla 🙂

  71. hello old villa hope your keeping well, your comment made me laugh as I am reading a book about how pain signals become mixed up with emotional ones and continue to give the person the same pain even though the injury has healed, very much like the missing limb that still causes pain.

    well I just read this 🙂

    ” There has been a movement for decades that encourages people to think positive. In my opinion, this philosophy represents a sophisticated form of suppressing. If a situation is bad, its bad. Pretending otherwise does not help. the energy spent suppressing the negative emotions could be better spent solving the problem.Recent research show that you have to embrace and feel your negativity in order to work through it. One term for this is leaning into the negative. its important not to take verbal or physical action when you are feeling these strong emotions, but suppressing them can be disastrous. Once you’ve acknowledged your negativity, you can substitute a more appropriate response. This is a more positive approach than simple positive thinking.”

    Now you wouldn’t want me to stop my therapy now would you? 😉

    Great book by the way called “back in control” by David Hanscom MD a spine surgeon that finds most persistent pain is psychological

  72. Spine surgeons are notoriously narrowly focused.
    Anything they & others can’t explain in their model is phycological.
    If you broaden the focus, the of course the psychological is part of the picture, but unlike that model it is not separate from the rest.
    They have the idea of a mechanic, where if the part is mended or replaced then there is no problem.
    To anyone who knows cars this a very short term view & sometimes in some circumstances totally wrong for rather obvious reasons that other parts may be affected in various stages of wear that can create all sorts of symptoms, some they can’t locate when they look on their machines.
    Then they do a judgment on what is most likely & what is most urgent, [guesswork].
    It is a financially driven model.
    The reason for many pains after surgery in the UK, especially in the back/spine as I know well, is little or no rehabilitation.
    Then they often say you are a malingerer.
    It is difficult to get a complete picture from western medicine as the whole approach is fragmentary.
    With many pains in the early stages of problems, what he says may or may not apply as it depends on many other sometimes unrelated factors, & many written diagnoses are deliberately lies as they always say ‘can’ do something when the mean ‘won’t’ due to financial reasons which we are not supposed to know.
    So I hope he makes money which will be his intention.
    So don’t believe all you read JL

  73. to follow on, many pains are partly due to fear in respect to the degree of pain.
    It doesn’t actually help to paint everything that they cannot effect as psychological, as all of it needs an open mind which is very rare.

  74. JG. You asked how many points we achieved against the play off teams. We got 9 out of a maximum 24. You could say that we needed 12 if we were to be on a par with them or you could say that 8 draws would have had them getting as many points as us and we did ok.
    We were the better team in both games against Brighton and should have won our first game against Newcastle.
    None of this matters though.
    The stats are irrelevant because the fact is we’ve not been good enough overall this season and will need to show significant improvement if we’re going to be promoted next year.

  75. On the subject of back pain I can assure you that mine isn’t psychological.
    We’re lucky enough to have a really good sports physio in our town who’s worked with professional rugby league teams and an international football team.
    He’s been honest enough to say that he can’t identify the source of the problem but has treated a series of weaknesses in hips, back and thighs that might have been the original source. Don’t know which one has made the difference but something seems to have fixed it . . . till the next time!

  76. MK
    Post me the info if you like mark as I was going by what was said on the post.
    I have heard that statement of pain being psychological a lot before as you can imagine
    What I described is my experiences in the NHS over27 years of pain.
    Also from my experiences of other healing traditions, it is true that how one experiences pain is up to our minds/perception & what we do with it affects the amount of pain & the positivity or negativity of the experience.
    But that can not be labelled as psychological which has a much narrower meaning.
    If you’ve come across an exception to the rule in a spine surgeon I would happily read it.
    But I am grateful to my spine surgeon or I might be dead, but the GP did not follow his instructions for rehab as he thought he knew best.
    He was proven wrong.

  77. robbo
    I’m glad you found someone with talent & an open mind.
    In the NHS often it is now rationed to the degree that they rarely talk about it in depth unless it is urgent.
    I went to the orthopaedic a few times recently & found that after reorganisation that I never saw a consultant or doctor in over 5 months, but all diagnosis & decisions were made by a physio with all the restrictions of a failing mismanaged NHS & being very careful what they put in writing with no verbal input.
    Not impressed, so certainly won’t be a turkey & vote for the chop.
    The lack of funding for the NHS IT as is in the news is attributable to this government.
    Probably too busy having an orgasm over fox hunting.

  78. Robbo- Ian G- there are many ways to skin a cat, I trapped a nerve in my back which tore my Quadriceps in 2003, I agree the NHS don’t have the time or money or keep up with new findings.

    I have studied and followed many protocols that had some effect in restoring function but non of them really fix the problem, life then becomes a procession of exercises to do. what I am talking about is neuroscience, if you burn your finger your brain feels it before your finger, in fact your finger can’t feel it, it reports to the brain through receptors, without your brain you would not feel pain. There are a fair few authors talking about the same subject out there this chap explains things very well.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-Control-Surgeons-Roadmap-Chronic-ebook/dp/B01N76WWTF/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494805183&sr=8-1&keywords=Back+in+Control

  79. MK
    That is so, but when it is severe pain over a long time it debilitates one even if you allow the pain process without fighting it & getting involved very much unless one is very realised.
    I practice various forms of self healing on myself [& on others if asked] most days, & I think the underlying factor is to allow change via any number of methods, & one of the by products is a calming of the central nervous system where change is a relief, which stops the mind fixating.
    I mean calming but fully alive without harmful drugs.
    There are limits & always when it gets severe.
    Right now I also have an infection in my jaw which is affecting teeth, & I’ve always found bad toothache with an infection is the worst, & very difficult to self treat effectively for the pain as it’s in the head & moves all the time & tends to put a halt to sleep.

  80. Hi MK

    saw the latest Craze on a stall today, a bit of spinning plastic? WTF?

    That craze did start with good intentions as it was proving useful for engaging on certain conditions on the autism spectrum (for want of a better explanation). However, it has become that craze to the point they are banned in my daughter’s school.

    I’ve stop taking codeine type painkillers for my aches, they just inhibit/transform the pain signal from the brain, aspirin is the one painkiller I’d take it’s a synthetic version of a natural remedy that’s less troublesome on the digestive system, thankfully my aches are only minor in nature compared to above.

  81. r0bb0: “should have won our first game against Newcastle.”

    Indeed, and all the 3 goals that the barcodes scored against us were remarkably fortunate – for them.

  82. Pain

    Reading what I have of the sciences in ancient India (and ayurveda) I think they already knew what neuroscience is now finding.

    In fact I would have thought that Hatha Yoga would considerably help. But not having experienced the issues that you guys have faced I can’t speak from experience in this.

  83. Iang- Yes your right its all about the central nervous system, what they are finding out is there is a much bigger cross over with emotional and physical pain. Once the pathways are layed down for pain from an injury that continues over a long period they are there permanently.

    What also happens is negative thoughts also trigger that same pain pathways when experienced at the same time. As I said earlier its like the phantom limb thing, I would love to see someone remain positive when their every minute is agony, really knocks the joy out of life 🙂 not to mention not being able to work and the loss of esteem. This surgeon only operates if he can to his best knowledge find a mechanical cause, many back issues don’t have one and many people have degraded discs but have no pain. Doesn’t mean the pain is any less real.

    The Brain has a system to keep us safe, we scan for danger at all times whether we like it or not, the flight or fight system is a part of our biology, It works by association. People born without pain receptors don’t live very long so it there for a purpose.

    Try this, put one arm out straight to the side, then see how far you can stretch your chest muscle and reach back while looking forward. Next pick an object behind you and reach for that instead, just try to touch it while keeping your trunk still, suddenly you get another 20 degrees of movement in your arm. Its about the brains focus, internal or external, giving it a visual que or a job changes that focus.

    One method this chap uses is to write down your thoughts morning and evening in detail, then tear the paper up. It is literally getting those thoughts out of your head and inactivating pathways, we all run programming we may not realise we have.

    sort that infection out mate pronto. You could try Oil pulling or a bit of cloves oil in the meantime.

    https://draxe.com/oil-pulling-coconut-oil/

    JL- yes mate the chackras , energy systems and Breathwork are all being explored at present.

  84. why have villa suffered so many injuries under bruce, bit like hull squad is it his training methods or his type of players ,hogan birr taylor have missed matches since signing 3 out of 7

  85. JG- if I was to take a punt I would say tension, where its coming from is anyone’s guess, If the players are anxious then they will produce adrenaline and cortisol which break down muscles if produced in excess, winning produces more testosterone and aids recovery between matches, loosing the opposite . Maybe our tactics make the team anxious? maybe the expectations make them anxious? maybe Bruce’s angry face makes them anxious? 🙂 for me its more likely to be not knowing what they are doing, if you know your job you can relax a bit and concentrate on that, if even a few don’t get there job it makes others wary of what’s coming next.

    Darts players take beta blockers and drink to calm there nervous system down, if they don’t their throwing action becomes tight due to nerves, I would think being tense would make injury more likely in football.

  86. haha the media trying to create a story which keith and bruce and dr has told us since jan transfer window shut!

    Only want 3-4 players that are better than what we have and main bit will be sorting outgoings!

    Will still spend plenty enough with sanchez gone 2.5. kozac gone. a lot of youth gone.

    gill, vertout, cissoko, amavi are going and will prob get 15-20 mill for that lot.

    id like to see micah gone and hutton and either bunn or steer.

    Squad shape and depth will be best its been for years.

    Plus the wage bill!!!

  87. We simply have to play with more pace, aggression, and forward thinking.

    We have the players imo no doubt.

    RHM, Hogan, kodjer, gabby, davies plus 1 more up top. that’s plenty of strikers.

    Adomah, Lansbury, hourihan all capable of assisting. green to push on too.

    Where im scratching my head is what formation will we be playing.

    Bruce wanted 2 up top but now kodjers injured and will miss the start. Do we change formation during season again when he is fit?!

  88. We have been linked to raiding the loan market and looking at the top teams youth. is that on top of the 3-4 signings?

    We need Johnson gk
    a CB to play with chester
    a cdm
    a target st
    and a goal scoring winger type

  89. Mark: “the chackras , energy systems and Breathwork are all being explored at present.”

    The only real way of “exploring”, Mark, is to dive into the ocean and experience.

    This science exploration thing is way off mark. It misses the point by the proverbial mile.

  90. andrew
    think i remember reading sanchez deal was done last september with transfer fee been accounted for,
    as for wage bill 7 players signed in january are all on mega money for this league along with ross jedi and most last summer signings add in hutton new contract gabby richards and bacuna and thats a scary wage bill

  91. JL you have a point.
    Mark I did t’ai ch’i for 15 years, & the stretch thing plus a lot more is incorporated in that without extreme stretching which works only on the body armour [if I can be bothered to do it – it seems we want to suffer]
    I would disagree that they are there permanently, as nothing is permanent, but it can be reinforced over & over so that it is similar, which is why it can change.
    We also have nowhere near as much control over habits as we think [as that’s thinking], which is why some things are very deep, but it is possible to just do something else in the moment & stop thinking so much [which can be painful], which can have a big change effect.
    JL In that you only use your intellectual mind until it is in the body memory, the you just let the body do it, which is a lot more powerful, & even more so if you time it with the soft in out of the breath without added effort.

  92. Andrew
    More forwards are unfit than fit, so probably need one good loan forward in addition.
    Still can’t get my head round 4 right backs.

  93. getting rid of the above should help wage bill massively.

    I much prefer a small squad to work with. for years we have had fairly big squad full of rubbish!

    All you want is a strong 22. 2 good players for each position to work with and the rest academy players

  94. players we have let go out on loan to be sold or just sold since the dr came.

    Guzan
    lescott
    okore
    clark
    Richardson
    cissokho
    Bennett
    crespo
    gana
    westy
    veretout
    sanchez
    traore
    gill
    nzog
    Sinclair
    ayew
    kozak
    gestede

    what a load of complete shite. costing us milliions

  95. now all this in 2 windows!

    Its just insane turnaround.

    cant go on like it and really shows the massive job.

    chuck in 2 manager changes too and trying to rebuild behind the scenes.

    Bloody know it when randy was here, it would take years to sort it out and I think it will!

  96. IanG: “In that you only use your intellectual mind until it is in the body memory, the you just let the body do it, which is a lot more powerful, & even more so if you time it with the soft in out of the breath without added effort.”

    Agreed. As in so-ham…

  97. JL- How do you know they are not diving in? I think science is getting closer to spirituality now with the advent of the new physics. Seems to me you don’t want them to find anything? me I think there are many ways of looking at the universe. If someone tells me something can’t be done then I want to know how they know? what makes them so sure? its all discovery.

  98. Andrew- incoming at Huddersfield this season, in the play offs.

    Christopher Schindler
    Rajiv van La Parra
    Jon Gorenc-Stankovic
    Collin Quaner
    Elias Kachunga
    Michael Hefele
    Jack Payne
    Chris Löwe
    Aaron Mooy
    Kasey Palmer
    Ivan Paurevic
    Danny Ward
    Joel Coleman
    Isaiah Brown
    Tareiq Holmes-Dennis

    As for Silva he inherited the promotion geniuses team who were below Sunderland at the time
    Bruce though is given leeway because he got RDM’s terrible squad 10 points off the play offs and got 13th with £80m of players 😉

  99. IanG- tai chi is perfect for laying down movement patterns, slow movement with concentration and breath. Have you ever tried to unlearn riding a bike? as for nothings forever energy comes close.

    experiments were done where two groups were told to think of white elephants or not to think of white elephants whilst doing a mind exercise and press a button when they did think of white elephants. they then swapped roles, the ones told to suppress their thoughts initially pressed the button loads more when told they could think about it.

  100. Hi Andrew

    ‘We simply have to play with more pace, aggression, and forward thinking.’

    If only Bruce for all his years of mgmt., picked up on this novel idea

    What happened to Wyness’ pronouncements on having a plan for FFP for the season after next, why has it become an issue already. Is it an issue because Dr.T and the board haven’t been able to secure the inward investment through sponsorship plus this year’s prem relegation payment to offset the costs of running the club.

    Looks like from Dr.T’s tweets that he’s now less inclined to invest his own money and looking to see if a return on his investment will happen without further spending. If that’s the case then Bruce has to be very clever on who he offloads and for how much.

  101. iang
    hutton new contract a joke bruce spent heavy on bree, plus delaet would be fit for new season so there was no reason to let hutton play enough matches to pass the cut of point, for all his praise hutton did not score A GOAL have even 1 ASSIST from a supposedly attacking full back,the last few matches he played back to old bad habbits going awol from full back, and us conceding from their

  102. Huddersfield had a plan early doors and owners etc in place.

    The chap has gone to Norwich now.

    A lot of them loans too, be interesting if they don’t go up this season.

    Bruce walked out on hull as he said the team not good enough for prem and the owners are mental!

  103. andrew
    the 2 lists are waste of money, so not much changed

    bruce is supposedly able to work with new methods yet his handling of gollina[ sacking italian coach appointing his mate,first thing conte did at chelsea sack keeper coach and get some one courtois liked and could work with ] has been poor we now have no keeper going to loan utd young keeper giving him experience at our expense if he goes well utd profit if not we lose all ways
    same for ross gategate didnt happen overnight yet bruce preferred to put arm[s] round gabby [2 goals in 2 years]

  104. Andrew- so having a lot of players come and go is not the problem as such its the planning and how you get them to play, so far I don’t have a great deal of faith in whats happened so far.

  105. Yaaaawwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn….
    All we want now is for “Wastewood” to be mentioned plus RdM and we’ve hit the full house again in yet another thread.

    Nice day today isnt it? People off on holiday soon?

    oldvilla

  106. Mark: “How do you know they are not diving in? I think science is getting closer to spirituality now with the advent of the new physics. Seems to me you don’t want them to find anything? “

    Why would I think that?! You really do have a suspicious mind! 😀 If I had such an attitude then there would be no future for my soul!

    Science may be getting to understand something of the universe, but it’s still got a huge distance to go and does not have a clue about the nature of the universe as it only works on what it finds.

    There are universities (e.g. Cardinal Newman) that educate using the combined principles of both reason and morality, and that is based on the ancient theme of “Know Thyself”, which is a very ancient teaching of psychology applied by men such as Socrates. Unless you seek for Truth using those principles, they’ll just be going down a dead-end – and serving a different cause to truth in the process.

    What the followers of science have done is what has increased the mayhem in the World. Would we be in that situation if we’d followed the likes of Jesus, Buddha et al?

    As an everyday case in point, I am currently in argument with the BBC about how they promote angles on the upcoming election. The first soundbite screening of their edification series was looking at the cost of state pensions and that the state pension’s triple-lock gives (they suggest) an unfair advantage over the workers, whose pay is increasing more slowly. The Beeb now tell me that those are the facts and that any other arguments are to do with “emotions”!

    See how we’ve been educated (or brainwashed) this last few decades?

  107. James – I may mention other posts but I do not moan about my team and all of its payers non-stop like some do.
    If the Villa are so bad in your eyes why not support the noses?

    Happy to be told to leave the site if this offends.
    oldvilla

  108. JL- Yes we are deffo brainwashed but whats new? we sometimes brainwash ourselves, I think you are being a bit unfair on science they seek knowledge outwardly just as you do in. If we followed Jesus and Buddha there would be no central heating, no AVL and possibly no Aston Villa, not everyone’s cut out for a life of navel gazing although knowing yourself is good advice. I assume not every soul comes ready and perfect so why should the world be? it would be very boring IMO, just another thing to conform to.

    I hope that when God for want of a better word reveals himself he’s not just like the bloke behind the curtain in the wizard of OZ or do I? 😉

  109. Oldvilla- How come we can’t moan about our players? Bruce does, even uber positive Tony Xia has the occasional swipe at them. anyway I regularly praise our two man team 🙂

  110. Mark

    Think having a high turnover of players constantly is a problem but yeah my worrys that bruce is not the man to coach them corrctly is high!!

    James

    No way are this batch a waste of money….very good solid signings. Can bruce set them up correctly in a formation that works create a fluid exciting team is another matter!!!

  111. Mark: “it would be very boring IMO, just another thing to conform to.”

    I think you’re speaking here of religion in the generally accepted sense.

  112. kodjer, hourihan, hogan, chester, jedi, taylorr, lansbury. Thats as strong as it gets in the championship. Bruce will have to hit the ground running i feel else he is toast

    No excuses with that lot.

  113. Old Villa…..the voice of reason with the wisdom of Solomon, don’t go mate, stay and enjoy the theatre.
    On a more Aston Villa related theme, regardless of what we all think of Steve Bruce and MK you do put forward a plausible argument regarding planning, tactics…or lack of. Anyway here’s going to be here at the start of next season and the first half dozen games will be critical for him if he wishes to retain the post of Manager of Aston Villa Football Club.
    There was a high level of expectation after the January window. We brought in Lansbury, Hogan, Hourihan, Taylor, Bree and Thor. Most managers will say it makes little difference bringing in new players in the January window ,maybe one but no more. We bring in half a dozen expect them to perform. Maybe we expected too much. We were clueless in mid field, indecisive and lacked the necessary cohesion to be creative.
    SB has to shift on the players he doesn’t want and get the loanees to provide the creative spark. Don’t see him getting mega bucks for the dross he wants to shift.
    The journey continues.
    Arch

  114. Andrew-all the top 6 had a high turnover of players Brighton being the least with Nine, so the evidence doesn’t stack up. Employing two managers in the same season with polar opposite styles was a huge Cock up, Might as well left RDM in (just for you old Villa 🙂 )

  115. In fact the entire league makes use of the loan market so players come and go a lot in this league, probably why its hard to get out of.

    On a positive note if Bruce makes the play off’s our team will be used to playing cagey park the bus football whereas the other teams will not.

  116. Mark
    “If we followed Jesus and Buddha there would be no central heating…”
    Not sure about that one given Jesus was a tradesman, a practical man.

    Old Villa
    Hope you’re feeling well today. Do you follow Swiss football?

    Andrew

    Agree Bruce will be toast if Villa don’t start well.

  117. Iana- You might be right but those robes would have been a death trap on a building site and those sandals!? he’d get a red card for them 😉

  118. andrew
    why will the new batch of players all of a sudden start playing like a team,30 mins against a nervy brighton trying to win a title, now people think bruce has cracked it, each and every one of january signings where over priced and overpaid 30 to 40 thousand is madness for players that hadnt played at higher level,
    our squad is so bloated with little hope of shifting players out
    rightback for one
    hutton 30 week
    delaet 25 week
    bree 25 week
    richards 50 week
    over 6.5million in wages for 1 position
    strikers
    gabby 55 week ross 40 week for 2 non playing players

  119. As george harrison put it.

    Brainwashed in our childhood
    Brainwashed by the school
    Brainwashed by our teachers
    And brainwashed by all their rules

    Brainwashed by our leaders
    By our kings and queens
    Brainwashed in the opening
    And brainwashed behind the scenes

    God, God, God
    A voice cried in the wilderness
    God, God, God
    It was on the longest night
    God, God, God
    An eternity of darkness
    God, God, God
    Someone turned out the spiritual light

    Brainwashed by the Nikkei
    And brainwashed by Dow Jones
    Brainwashed by the footsie
    Nasdaq and secure loans

    Brainwashed us from Brussels
    Brainwashing us in Bonn
    Brainwashing us in Washington
    Westminster in London

    God, God, God
    You are the wisdom that we seek
    God, God, God
    The lover that we miss
    God, God, God
    Your nature is eternity
    God, God, God
    You are Existence, Knowledge, Bliss

    The soul does not love, it is love itself
    It does not exist, it is existence itself
    It does not know, it is knowledge itself
    ‘How to Know God’ Page 130

    They brainwashed my great uncle
    Brainwashed my cousin Bob
    They even got my grandma
    When she was working for the mob

    Brainwash you while you’re sleeping
    While in you’re traffic jam
    Brainwash you while you’re weeping
    While still a baby in your pram

    Brainwashed by the military
    Brainwashed under duress
    Brainwashed by the media
    You’re brainwashed by the press

    Brainwashed by computer
    Brainwashed by mobile phones
    Brainwashed by the satellite
    Brainwashed to the bone

    God, God, God
    Won’t You lead us through this mess
    God, God, God
    From the places of concrete
    God, God, God
    Nothings worse than ignorance
    God, God, God
    I just won’t accept defeat

    God, God, God
    Must be something I forgot
    God, God, God
    Down on Bullshit Avenue
    God, God, God
    If we can only stop the rot
    God, God, God
    Wish that You’d brainwash us too

    Namah Parvati Pataye Hare Hare Mahadev
    Namah Parvati Pataye Hare Hare
    Namah Parvati Pataye Hare Hare

    Shiva Shiva Shankara Mahadeva
    Hare Hare Hare Hare Mahadeva
    Shiva Shiva Shankara Mahadeva
    Shiva Shiva Shankara Mahadeva

    Namah Parvati Pataye Hare Hare
    Namah Parvati Pataye Hare Hare
    Shiva Shiva Shankara Mahadeva
    Shiva Shiva Shankara Mahadeva

  120. “you might be right but those robes would have been a death trap on a building site and those sandals!? he’d get a red card for them”
    Lol! Sure he’d adapt with the times. Maybe he wore overalls and boots, anyway.
    Just imagine if someone found a chair where it could be proven it was Jesus who made it, a holy relic. It would be deemed to possess supernatural powers. What would you do with it?

    IanG
    Hope you got the jaw seen to.

  121. IanG,

    Yes, George Harrison was quite a feller, was he not.

    I’ve been to his Hare Krishna temple several times (the last in 2016) and love its atmosphere.

  122. Mark: “question for you anyone that can answer it, why hasn’t the west had our own version of Jesus or Buddha? or the American continent?”

    The answer to that is contained in the story of the Earth and the localisation of spritual contact.

    Not all places in the Earth have the same spiritual frequency, or rather it has changed over time.

    That’s not to say that other places – e.g. the Americas – have not had their “own version” of Buddha or Jesus, but rather they are hidden in history that has not been uncovered – yet – though the name Quetzalcoatl may ring a few bells.

  123. why hasn’t the west had our own version of Jesus?

    I don’t think the original religions based on the sun, moon, stars, nature and multiple gods required the need to create an anti-Jewish terrorist as some sort of demi-god. Those ‘pagan’ religions were doing fine in maintaining their connection with the earth until Christianity came along and deplored multiple gods and replaced it with a theocracy.

    Fair play to the disciples for inventing fake news before it was even given a name, sorry I hold no truck with Jesus or Christianity other than it being a man-made creation to serve the interests of a few to the detriment of the many and to subjugate Judaism as the primary religion in the Middle East.

    For myself I’m at a dilemma in my life, hoping that the soul does live on and I’ll meet those who have passed before me again but also thinking that heaven and god is some sort of long-standing protectionist measure the brain has concocted to protect itself from there being nothing after death. Why do we play so much importance on us having an after-life if we don’t expect it of every other animal on this planet (maybe some do).

    As such I’ve never found religion to be able to satisfy my soul but equally I’m too caught up in the rat-race of life, providing for my family and nurturing my too young daughters to become confident/savvy/street wise young women to focus on any form of spirituality or self-advancement.

  124. ‘why hasn’t the west had our own version of Jesus?’

    Who says we haven’t, maybe we were looking the other way at a Trump version?
    I haven’t got a problem with Jesus, but the managers who created christianity later have a lot to answer for.
    As has the Islam version.
    DOR I wouldn’t worry too much about a soul as it’s a path language concept anyway.
    Someone in USA asked Chogyam Trungpa what transmigrated after death [reincarnation], & he replied, ‘your bad habits’
    The thing it appears that worries most people about ‘God’ is that it is a concept like worry, & any understanding of omnipotence etc is impossible to talk about anyway as that would be your concept.
    As it says in the Koran, ‘God IS, what we think he is, is not.
    I personally don’t believe in the concept of God, & deities [angels etc] are relative not absolute, & therefore not that, although they are & can be very real & a connective element to the unexplainable absolute omnipotence if that is your path.
    You can’t worry about a non thing unless you’re very inventive

  125. DOR,

    May I suggest trying Elaine Pagels’ book “Beyond Belief” – it’s a wonderful study into what the original Christian teachings were about. Also her book “The Gnostics”. They’re not the only books on the subject and I also would recommend the books “Greater Than You Know” and “Jesus – Prophet of Islam”.

    Those books put the ‘Jesus’ matter straight i.m.o.

  126. what have mcleish,lambert and bruce all got in common, all 3 kept saying this was biggest club they had managed,waited there entire career to get it and all blamed the players when it went wrong,then the chairman all wassnt blamed was tealady

  127. Morning each,
    Regarding the FFR, It seems we’ve spent as a club in the region of £80m over the last three years leaving us close to the limit for being sanctioned for exceeding the maximum permitted loss.
    So can one of you ITK out there explain to me what happened to he parachute payments. Did we recieve them? If so has the parachute payment been factored into the £80m deficit.
    Genuine question.
    Arch

  128. Thanks JL, googled Elaine Pagel and read her biog on Wikipedia which led me to reading about Jesus in Islam, interesting lunch break.

    My ignorance of Islam has been reduced by a small degree having not previously known Islam has Jesus recorded as a prophet. There might be more to this guy than being an anti-Jewish terrorist promoted by a few disciples as the son of God.

  129. No probs DOR.

    Yes, Jesus in Islam … where he is known as Isa. And there is an ancient record found in Tibet that records an Issa having visited there in those times. There has been some writing about what happened to Jesus between the ages of 12 and 29 and it is reckoned that he went to India, Persia and Egypt as part of his spiritual preparation. The Chuch – of course – denies all that.

  130. JL- If Jesus had to go and learn too then that confirms my suspicion that God doesn’t trust anyone enough to tell them all the facts 😉

    Archie- to my knowledge last years losses alone were £80m+ let alone the previous years, FFP runs over 3 seasons so remains to be seen if we get sanctioned, our wages are massive and if we don’t shift players I wonder what will happen unless Xia coughs up? They keep saying its all ok but I have my doubts, businesses rarely tell if they are not.

  131. Darren
    “There might be more to this guy than being an anti-Jewish terrorist promoted by a few disciples as the son of God.”
    I agree there is certainly more to Jesus. I don’t think he was an anti-Jewish terrorist. He did seem to be anti-establishment, if that is what you mean.
    I’ve looked into the meeting of the bishops that Constantine called together at Nicene and other meetings to debate the divinity of Jesus as Christ etc. Seems to me, a lot of what people say about what happened is fake. People just believe what they want to. Even Constantine’s faith is debatable. What does seem certain is that the majority of bishops present at the meetings believed Jesus as being of the same substance as God (equal), God incarnate. Not all believed that. They were a small minority like Arius.
    The history of Christianity is another matter. Most eastern Christian nations were eventually conquered by Islamic armies and usually forced to convert to Islam.

  132. Iana: “They were a small minority like Arius.”

    With the big difference being that the views of Arius were in line with other monotheistic traditions, including that of Sanathana Dharma (including Buddhism and what is called Hinduism), and the philosophy of Tao and also Islam. Differences there may be between those paths, but the core idea is that God is One.

    Therefore the Unitarian church has always maintained a presence in the Christian sphere. Joseph Priestly – in Brum – was one of the Unitarians who was not popular for his views in that regard, though the attack on him in 1791 was ostensibly because of something else.

    As I said before, it’s very worthwhile reading Elaine Pagels works on this topic. She provides considerable evidence about the original nature of Jesus’s teachings and how the path was created for Constantine to create his dogma.

    Sadly, all religions – whether it’s Christianity, Islan or even Buddhism – have been distorted once a 2 -300 years gap opened following the teacher. Ordinary thinking takes over as a result of the material density in which we live. But still messengers come to remind us.

  133. JL
    I see where you’re coming from. However the Council of Nicaea was held in 325. Islam didn’t exist then. The Romans certainly knew about other religious traditions both monotheistc and polytheistic. Constantine ruled over an empire of warring monotheists and polytheists.
    Do you think Trinitarianism was an attempt to appease both groups?

  134. Iana: “However the Council of Nicaea was held in 325. Islam didn’t exist then. “

    Of course not! 🙂 I was merely pointing out that Islam is a monotheistic teaching … and don’t forget that Jesus is regarded as a major prophet in their tradition and teachings.

    And Islam is the structure within which the Sufis operate, who are the spiritual inheritors of the Essenes tradition who were most probably connected with Jesus in his lifetime. Read up Idris Shah on his book “The Sufis” for a background to the mystical element of Islam.

    Iana: “Do you think Trinitarianism was an attempt to appease both groups?”

    That’s what I more-or-less conclude. Constantine certainly didn’t study the origins of Christianity well enough – he relied on a Paulian-type revelation he had received plus the theology of Polycarp and Iranaeus that had gained momentum by then. Constantine changed the whole atmosphere of the Roman empire towards Christianity and stopped the brutality, but his approach was emotionally based and according to the need to appease others.

    The outcome was the western interpretation of Christianity, and the fragmented situation that now exists of multiple churches each trying to get to grips with different aspects and (historically at least) in opposition to one another – as well as towards other religions and ways of spirituality. No wonder people want nothing to do with religion.

  135. JL
    It seems the main schisms leading to” … the fragmented situation that now exists of multiple churches…” happened in 1054 (East-West) and the Reformation. It’s ironic Constantine wanted universality of belief and unity. His idea of church did seem unified for a few hundred years. It’s easy to forget that Christianity was being practised elsewhere, though, Ethiopia and Egypt being two of the oldest. As you know, the Enlightenment changed Western Christianity forever. So did the invention of the printer and more people learning how to read.
    As for the interesting theology of the Trinity, I have no problem with it if one believes God is omnipresent. I can see why, though, millions have been dumbfounded by the idea of three in one. Why would God allow Himself to come here, be tortued then killed and raise Himself up from the dead so He can sit on the right hand side of Himself?

  136. Iana: “I can see why, though, millions have been dumbfounded by the idea of three in one. “

    The concept of a trinity exists in other faiths, too … such as the Hindu system. But in ‘Hinduism’ the concept of multiple ‘gods’ is all in the context of there being one creator/maintainer.

    Mark: “As you keep pointing out its not a knowing as such but a feeling you Know anyway”

    I don’t think I’ve ever quite said that! 🙂 “Feeling you know” by itself cannot be relied upon.

    Study of ancient psychology teaches you how the body and soul is constituted, so from that teaching you can develop more certitude. But it’s taught that nothing should be treated as such (certitude) without putting it to the test. Theory has to be tested before you can even think that you might ‘know’.

    The problem with many religions now is that only the very outer shell of the teaching is followed. Only the rules of worship and ritual predominate. Contrast that with the teachings of the likes of Gurdjieff, who always said that we should treat each breathing moment as if it were our last. But to know how to do that with any meaningfulness means study … and work.

  137. IanG- Mooy is a deep lying play-maker and can defend right up Bruces street, Huddersfield wasn’t fast either and Jedinak isn’t fast, gabby is 😉

    if he can sit and put Hogan,lansbury or Hourihane in then jobs done. Touted as one of the top three players in the champs this season. He’s stocky but he gets about from what I have seen.

  138. Sorry I’ve not been able to join in the rather interesting and heady conversation…But I will bring us back down to earth, don’t worry. New post is finally up.

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