It’s time for the Second City derby, and I’m not sure there’s much to say about this one. It is what it is and everyone should be well up for it. You have to think the noses will come to play sitting two points above the drop with three to play.
We can certainly talk about whether we’d like to see the poor neighbors drop from the second tier…Villa obviously should be aiming to contribute to their possible relegation because we really have to be playing for all three points and an upswing to the season’s end. But, and this is just for the sake of argument, would we rather have the derby to look forward to again next year? Or is it just fun to see them go down?
We could talk about Bruce and RDM, Zola and Redknapp, but this game is all about the supporters and bragging rights. I couldn’t tell you whether Bruce particularly cares about going up against his old side, but given the club need a win after two two losses and a draw, I doubt “Judas Potato Head Rat” is going to be terribly sentimental.
(I have to admit, it’s hard not to talk about Harry. But for me it adds a little fun having one of the game’s more colorful and divisive characters taking the helm at Small Heath with his sanity, in addition to his character, apparently now squarely in question.)
There’ll be no Jonathan Kodjia, so we’ll see what Scott Hogan can do. He’s had a week to get his head around starting, and the team have had a week to train knowing he’s starting, so one hopes he takes the chance and does some damage. No better time to play your way into Villans’ hearts, Scott.
While it’s a bit of a sideshow, the debate about Gabby is a fair one. He’s had good moments in this match-up, and perhaps he could do a job tiring out defenders if he’s well and truly fit. Whether or not one has forgiven him, he could at least put in a shift and earn just a tiny bit of the wages he’s been siphoning. By the same token, there are other home-grown players who deserve to play a role more than he.
Like most, I am hoping that the likes of Rushian Hepburn-Murphy and Andre Green at least get a run-out and more than a token one. They’ll have fire in their bellies, you’d think, at the prospect of taking on the clowns. But the fact that Villa’s side is largely British now should also mean that everyone in the dressing room understands the intensity and importance of the fixture and takes it as seriously as the occasion demands.
So, that’s it, really. It’s time for Villa to give the supporters some small morsel to savor in what has otherwise been an underwhelming, if not tragic, season.
The Author
John Clark
John is co-owner of AVL, and has followed the Villa since the '70s. A journalist by trade, he is, by most accounts, a very nice person. You can follow me on Twitter @JClarkKohoutek. It's an astonishing experience. Or a complete waste of time.Comments 65
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hello Jc thanks mate, three games to go and looking to end the season well, if only I could create an emoji of a balloon deflating it would illustrate our season well. If city get relegated it would prove that there is a natural order and mother nature is not finished yet 🙂
oh dear I’m not alone then 😉
http://www.myoldmansaid.com/steve-bruces-aston-villa-record-highlights-all-the-teams-problems/
Thanks, JC,
I’d love to see Villa give Blues a memorable thrashing. Both teams have a lot of room for improvement, so I expect an intense encounter. Jedinak and Lansbury will be busy. Expect to see Baker injured during the game.
Harry should be good for a few laughs. Villa need to worry about themselves before worrying about the neighbours plight.
Mark
Good article that.
I keep getting updates from Man U in Chinese, wonder if Villa will be sending those out soon? I think they got my email address when I did a stadium tour at OT in 2011. Just goes to show how much money their Asian fans must bring in. Bruce would do well to scout Korea/Japan for talent.
Does anybody see merit in bringing in Dwight Yorke as an attack coach?
Mark: Nice article you wrote for MOMS
I (and I suspect most on here) would agree with most of the analysis of Bruce’s tenure. Where I take issue with the article is the comparison with RDM, and it’s all down to the way that both men reacted to the poor run of results. Both men clearly felt the pressure, but in the media and on the touch line you could see that Bruce was still fighting whereas RDM had withdrawn into himself and appeared to have given up. Apparently this was confirmed by those within the club.
You ‘cannot’ succeed in any walk of life (least of all management) if you can’t find it within yourself to keep fighting, believing that you can turn it round and, more importantly, convincing those around you that it’s possible.
Mark, I added a winking face emoji after my first sentence but for some reason it’s not showing!
Iana: it’s a ‘no’ from me. I do not want Yorke as attacking coach.
After Sherwood went he put himself forward for Villa to be his very first managerial job.
At the time I felt that him believing that he could gain his first experience of management with us showed disrespect for the club.
He is reported to be looking for ‘other opportunities to manage within the Premier league’ and is citing racism as the reason for such opportunities not presenting themselves. I don’t know the stats for the racial background of ex players taking their coaching badges and moving straight into a premier league management job but let’s face it, the numbers will be tiny for ‘all’ races. Of those that have made that move, how many have succeeded?
It’s not too much melanin that stopped him getting the job, it’s too little experience.
It’s not even as if he’s a legend of the club who the fans respect for the loyalty he showed in staying with us through thick and thin.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink had his first job at Antwerp, then moved to the lower leagues with Burton Albion.
If Dwight Yorke really wants to get into management, he needs to show some humility first, start in the lower leagues and prove himself. If he has to go to a conference club to get his first shot at it, so be it. If he brings success people will soon notice and he’ll get chances to progress.
I was on the motorway yesterday when a white van swerved in front of me and I had to take evasive action. I ‘indicated’ to the driver that I was unimpressed by his driving. At the next service station he accused me of being racist (I had Ben too busy trying to avoid the central reservation to even noticethe Polish writing on his van). I pointed out that it had nothing to do with his nationality and everything to do with his crap driving skills.
Dwight Yorke is probably jumping to the wrong conclusion in blaming his colour for not being Villa manager and hasn’t done himself any favours in going public with those views.
I’d rather have a proven successful forwards coach than bring in a novice who happens to have played for us in the past.
Before anyone gets the wrong impression, I do recognise that racism and homophobia still exist in football and it’s taking too long to eliminate them.
I just don’t believe that the absence of Dwight Yorke from the Aston Villa dugout is an expression of either of those prejudices.
r0bb0: “Dwight Yorke is probably jumping to the wrong conclusion in blaming his colour for not being Villa manager and hasn’t done himself any favours in going public with those views.”
Especially in the light of what happened to Ugo.
John, it’s going to be emotional during the inevitable tribute to him at Villa Park this afternoon.
There will be a lot of people there with fond memories of a very decent human being who we wish was still with us.
Robbo
Well said.
r0bb0,
he was immense, wasn’t he? I remember seeing one of his early matches and being not only impressed by his strength but also his passing ability … one crossfield ball from him could have been delivered by Johnny Haynes, a superlative passer of the ball.
He and Southgate were great. But I didn’t realise he was such a great feller, personally. That’s good to hear.
He and Dalien … great examples of black power…
Johnstone; Hutton, Chester, Baker, Taylor; Jedinak, Lansbury, Bacuna; Adomah, Hogan, Grealish
Subs: Bunn, Elphick, Agbonlahor, Hourihane, Bree, Gardner, Amavi.
Robbo- no worries mate I got the gist anyway 😉
I think both managers need to be looked at in the light of what they had to do and the timing of arrival. For all his faults RDM barely had his own team complete for 5-6 games. Bruce walked in when the team had at least been together for 11-12 games and had not really lost many even compared to Newcastle at that point just had not won when they should of, Bruce also received the late arrivals better settled and fitter. Bruce got us back into contention thats true (which may have happened anyhow with the run of Matches imo) but Bruce also lost to those teams that RDM drew with early on with a less settled side.
Jan feb was of his own making IMO and there were times in that run he stood on the line looking clueless because nothing was working for him and we were not getting Draws either.
RDM lost the support of the crowd no doubt, probably never been in that position before, Bruce has had the odd boo but even in his bad run of losses people were preaching patience, makes a big difference to not be booed off the park.
the worst bit is we went from looking capable if not clinical going forward to relying on Kodjia with much better mid-fielders installed.
JL- oh my lord what has Bacuna got on Bruce? no RHM, if not injured then gabby on the bench in his place says he should of left. One forward on the field and one on the bench, are we at home or what? 🙁
Mark,
You worry too much! 🙂
JL- worrying? no mate you have me all wrong I am astounded 😉
At least he has now realised Hourihane and Lansbury can’t play central together just , must be progress
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1vAxRbnVANgxl?q=astonvilla
Cheers Mark!
Thanks Mark, can’t even get BBC WM here
I dont know about thanking me its dire 🙂
tony morley- worst derby he’s seen no quality and blues should be 1-0 up midfield rubbish and Hogan getting a stiff neck watching the ball go over him, did we sell Gestede?
cue Gabbys one goal 😉
Mark,
C’mon – I heard the commentary as well … clearly Villa also had a chance to score – if they’d wake up!
JL mate blues put the ball over the bar from seven yards we watched the ball go through the area both sides are poor, theres nothing to come on about?
At least gabby hates the blues 😉
told you 🙂 gabby gets one 🙂
Babby, Gabby, Gabby!!!!!!!!!!! 😀
well thats that wonder if harry will keep them up?
Would have been great to have been at VP. Trust Gabby to get the winning goal. Didn’t sound like great football, but the fans were loud, ecstatic when the goal was scored.
Glad Villa won, glad the fans at VP enjoyed the day.
“well thats that wonder if harry will keep them up?”
Lord knows. I hope they do stay up.
There’s a great well over the top write up on 7500 to Holte.
We won!
Great seizing of the moment by Gabby, it’s a classic.
Though as Tony Morley said it when he said that he didn’t think he will be here next season.
To be fair a classic swansong,
Must have spent over £1500 doing the 450 mile round trip to watch Villa this year. Although it’s clearly been better than recent years it’s still not been great . . . but in that moment when Gabby scored . . . . . it suddenly all felt worth it.
The crowd were singing the Gabby song even in the first half but it was the moment when he came on that everything changed.
Now you can rightly point to his misdemeanours and if you think he shouldn’t have been forgiven I couldn’t argue with you, but he lifted the crowd and things started to happen.
Bruce needs to find a way of bottling that passion and feeding it to all the players during pre-season.
If all our players can play with the energy that Gabby and also Gardner showed when he came on I honestly believe we would win this division next year
Oh, must give a shout out to Hutton once again too. He had a point to prove to Harry, but in all fairness, he plays as if he has a point to prove to someone or other ‘every’ week.
Thought the referee generally had a good game. Somehow kept things moving and didnt succumb to the yellow card on many occasions when he could have done.
Wish football authorities would do something about opposing players running off with the ball at free kicks though. It’s a flashpoint for friction in every single game and if they want to stop it they could just take a leaf out of rugby’s book and move the freekick 10m towards the goal.
It would stop the nonsense very very quickly AND speed the game up.
r0bb0:
It really does come down to the passion. You have to want it more than the other team. If you don’t start there, you’re not going very far.
IanG:
Indeed, a perfect swan song…I always came down on the side of giving a player a second chance, and while Gabby really had trouble making anyone glad of him getting that chance, he finally came good today. Very happy for him. It was a good bit of symmetry and if it is a farewell, it’s a great note to go out on.
Well we won, just, thankfully. Good atmosphere but jesus Bruce takes the piss on his style of football. Never seen such a defensive manager
Hourihane and Hogan came as good players, Bruce gets his hands on them and they turn shite
There better be a plan to improve the football during the summer
Frem, based on recent performances I have to agree with you. He’s not getting the best out of our creative players. I didn’t pay attention to how Hogan played when he was at Brentford, but when they played us just after he joined, that team played like 11 Jack Russells and we just haven’t been like that.
Lots of work to be done in Pre-season so let’s hope he’s up to it.
As has been said many times before, nobody has a better record of Championship promotions so I hope he hasn’t forgotten how.
JC: “if it is a farewell, it’s a great note to go out on.”
It looks like a big ‘if’ with Bruce already suggesting that this coming season Gabby could be playing for a new contract. In other words, he’ll be here for at least another year.
Robbo- Hogan plays off the shoulder of the defence running on to through balls, we give him nothing but high balls into the box. When he left he had 14 goals and was their main weapon so dean smith change their play and they scored even more from all over the team. I get the feeling Bruce isn’t bright enough to really get the best out of this team of players, his misuse of the players he has bought is baffling. Can’t see it getting better and I think he will buy 6-7 players in the summer.
Wagner praised the Fulham team and their manager yesterday called them the best footballing side in the league and I agree, their manager is very decent. Heres the rub they play football and they are in the play offs along with the other footballing sides. This leagues has changed as the money in the prem was boosted, good managers are prepared to come and manage in it for the chance of getting a platform in the prem an the chance of discovery, its not the league Bruce is used to getting out of IMO.
JL- did you here rednapps thoughts on gabby 🙂
“He’s come on and had 10 minutes. That will keep him happy here for another year.”
http://readastonvilla.com/2017/04/23/redknapp-takes-cheeky-dig-villa-hero-gabby-agbonlahor/
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2017/04/23/matt-maher-and-luke-hatfield-analyse-aston-villas-derby-day-win-watch/
This made me laugh I was talking yesterday about the villa fan puting the ball in the top bin being an omen and heres bruces thoughts on Gabby 🙂
“I said to people when I saw him walk past in the car park at 10 past eight ‘oh, oh, he’s trying his best to be fit’.
“Just at the right time we needed him because it lifted the crowd – in his first two minutes he went roaring into a challenge.
“You can talk about tactics and this, that and the other but supporters want to see exactly what he did, in a derby match, where it means something.
“He’s had his critics and his criticisms, but since I’ve been here in five months, he’s been terrific.
“It’s a shame he injured his hamstring against Preston because he was looking in really good nick again.
“He’s got a big summer ahead of him now – he can’t just prepare all winter for Birmingham.
“But certainly his record is incredible. I don’t know what the record is for goals against each other but I think his might take some beating.
“Five goals is quite special and of course it was a winner.
“It was a scrappy goal to say the least but what a great finish – he turned, got it out of his feet and put it into the top bin.
“Good on him.”
JL,
It does sound like Bruce will give him a chance. And hey, if can produce, then it’s all good.
Mark,
“its not the league Bruce is used to getting out of IMO”
You may well be onto something there.
Frem, r0bb0:
Yeah, I’m having trouble understanding where the creativity has gone. Like Mark’s saying, we’re not playing to Hogan’s strengths…I’d have thought they’d have worked on that during the week. And Kodjia’s not a hold-up man, either.
And as for Hourihane and Lansbury, they have to be capable of more than they’ve been able to show.
Mark
‘it’s not the league Bruce is used to getting out of’
Your rationale sounds very plausible but I don’t think it’s right.
Yes there’s more money now in the Championship, but there’s even more in the premiership and yet ‘dinosaurs’ like Pulis and Allardyce are able to succeed.
Chelsea are a ‘pragmatic team who defend well and attack on the break and Leicester won the league last year without playing tippy tappy football.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see us playing with style and winning, I’m just pointing out that it still isn’t the only way to win.
What you DO need to win though is a discernible playing style of some type, players that fit that style and a belief in how you’re playing along with team spirit and energy.
Like you, I don’t see those things yet, but unlike you I’m prepared to give Bruce a pre-season to try and develop it.
My worry, like you, is that he may need a lot of changes in players to achieve that and he’s not going to get them . . . and neither should he!
For example, based on your assessment of how Hogan was used at Brentford and other articles I’ve now read, he is great at running the channels and feeding off incisive passes played through to him. We have players who should be capable of doing that but I see little sign of it at the moment.
If we don’t learn to play that way then he’ll be a rectangular peg in a triangular hole.
robbo- there is the problem, what is Bruce trying to do? doesn’t appear to know himself. The Jan window was about promotion I presume and has produced a steady defence which still requires Jedinak to defend corners free kicks etc , imagine that he is more dominant than our CH’s.
I would take Pullis or big Sam tomorrow ether would do better IMO, not ideal but way more astute than Bruce.
Unfortunately those tippy tappy football teams have also out fought us all season, I’d take getting the basics right forget arsenal style football.
Gabby won the game by getting in peoples faces yet our default is to sit back, we are nothing like Chelsea or Leicester just a sheep in wolves clothing, I cannot see that a pre-season will sort this when some 6 months plus hasn’t . whoopee if it doe’s but? its not looking likely on evidence.
What about McCormack as a #10? He is a skilfull footballer. Can he make amends and reconcile with Bruce?
Mark,
What r0bb0 says about giving Bruce a pre-season to sort it all out is right for me too, as you’d probably guess. 😉
I do think that this past few months has mainly been about getting belief back into the club by one means or another – the Doc has said so for goodness sake! In other words the state of the play is recognised and they want to do something about it. But until you get off to a fresh start (which Bruce hasn’t had yet) and work out who really should be doing what after passing the Doc’s first criteria, we shouldn’t be expecting too much.
I do believe it will be a lot better next season. The way the club in total is now managed gives me that belief.
JL- OK so the doc says so, so thats fine? I think he is quite likely to say all sorts John to keep the fan base happy 🙂
Is it not possible to work on things in the season? a time when fitness training is kept minimal? but we are going to emerge as butterfly’s when we are trying to regain fitness pre-season and Bruce is buying and selling players?what is he going to teach them that he cannot now? 30 plus games is time enough to have an idea as a fan what to expect. Maybe he’ll ask them where they would like to play and what kind of service the striker he bought prefers? seen enough of our pre-seasons to know they rarely provide the answers. What kind of belief does losing to the good teams provide?
My belief is a more progressive manager would be getting a lot more from the players, we must have the most amount of goals in a team on our books in this league yet barely shoot, we are still a two man band, Kodjia and Jedinak.
“I do think that this past few months has mainly been about getting belief back into the club by one means or another”
I do hope you are right because it certainly hasn’t been about playing good football, if belief is going to be the bedrock of our promotion tilt next season then yeh maybe winning a few games against crap teams and disassembling the team that got us relegated will help but we’ve got a long, long way to go and I can’t see a few pre-season friendlies and tweaking a few positions will see us turn a corner that will require us to gain another 35ish points from a season when we scrape a 1 nil win against Small Heath.
As it stands Newcastle, Brighton and one of Reading, Wednesday, Hudders, Fulham will leave, leaving three teams with more stability than us and in general 15+ points better off plus Sunderland, Boro and one of Swansea, Hull to come down with parachute payments, stable enough squads, add to that the likes of Monk at Leeds, Rowett’s Derby and we’ll have another battle on our hands.
We’ll improve out of player familiarity but I can just see Xia getting trigger happy if the first two spots start getting away from us, that’s as you say is natural order or to be expected so why can’t it be expected that we should see improvement now as opposed to waiting for some eureka moment for Bruce over the summer. I don’t trust Bruce to turn things around as much as they need to, if he does brilliant, Villa don’t need to be in this division any longer than necessary, if he doesn’t than we go through the same motions as we’ve done every year, asking a new manager mid-season to complete the impossible in a shorter timeframe.
Based on how we play right now with the sole focus on getting the ball to Kodija then Boro, Sunderland, Leeds, Fulham, plus others will all know how to beat us by isolating him. Kodija is too selfish for 4-4-2, thankfully selfish this season or we’d be a lot worse off.
Gabby potentially staying a further season is a disgrace, he’s the equivalent of two highly rated youngsters in salary terms that could offer more to Villa than Gabby has done in many a year, get rid of him this summer, with his additional goal on his dvd. If Bruce is so keen to wipe the slate clean for one player then he has to recall all loanees to give them a chance to prove themselves.
Well, having enjoyed the euphoria of a packed Villa Park, full of warmed up Villa fans, especially in the Holte End, singing from start to finish, and NEVER once sitting down…!!!
To cap off all this great atmosphere, the LEGEND that is Gabby Agbonlahor scores the winning goal…what more can the fans want says Bruce….and in the moment, he is absolutely right…bragging rights over small heath (no capitals to emphasize the small!) is just what the fans want, and the good Dr. was there to see his stadium full and enjoy it too.
That was yesterday in a nutshell, and we do not really need to talk about the actual football.
The next most important thing to do, is to analyze exactly where Villa, under Bruce is now, and unfortunately, they are no further forward than when he arrived, except may be the goal difference is better by one goal.
I am certain that Tony Xia has worked out the same too, and looked at how much he has spent for virtually no return. There is not a plan that is coming together, or an amazing team which is really gelling, except for a very solid defence, which apart from Taylor, was already there, just that Bruce has made a job of putting it together, albeit that it was an accident brought about by Elphick’s injury.
The mid field is still struggling, even after spending a lot of money, and apart from Kodjia, the attack is almost non existant.
I know JL will not agree, but I do not feel that Bruce has much time left….and his house is now up for sale…so I am told by a good friend.
I am sure Xia will want someone in place this summer, who will be capable of taking Villa all the way to the top. He has tried the stop gap route, and seen it fail, which is why he and Round have been determined that replacing a manger should not need the club going back to start again.
I would be happy if Bruce could prove me wrong, but he does not have a fraction of the nouse of Big Sam or Pullis, although I think that the good Doctor will looking for a top man, more in the Mourinho style. You have to pay the money to get the right man to achieve the results…
Mark: ” OK so the doc says so, so thats fine? I think he is quite likely to say all sorts John to keep the fan base happy”
Yeah, yeah … so the Doc comes in and spends something of a fortune (to you and me at least) and then spouts something to keep us all quiet?
Really, Mark, you have so much imagination that I’m looking forward to your first book of fiction that will shortly appear on the bookshelves! – won’t it?! 😀
well whatever you say about gabby his teammates seem to really love him.
the amount of tweets green, greaish and even weimann said about him says a lot.
It seems very shrewd now of bruce to keep gabby onside.
Taylor superb sunday.
8 wins 3 defeats and 1 draw in last 12 games suggest we have put some sort of run together but wanted/expected us to click more, play better footy by now.
Bruce really need to start practiscising what he preaches next season.
But I do feel we have a team now that puts a shift in, cares and plays with pride professionalism which im going to take for now after last 5 years.
next season have to be right up there. pressures on.
style of footy is an issue for sure. the doc has been made aware of it over twitter and even responded last week by saying something like style will improve when team has geled, learnt to win.
we shall see.
but im not fretting over it, dr is aware. ian taylor, wyness, round, little all watch the games at vp together. they aint stupid and can see what the footy is like and talk about it like the rest of us!
not happy at all that hourihan is benched. was looking very good before int break.
Paul,
You say that apart from Taylor the defence was already there, and in personnel terms, you’re right.
But one other difference is that I reckon Hutton’s performance level has gone up a notch or two – in effort at least. I think the extra pressure on his position caused him to work harder – and good luck to him.
As to whether Bruce’s clock is running down … Well, it’s not a question of agreeing with you or not. I simply do not know if the Doc’s real intention is to replace Bruce in the summer. I’d say it is *very* unlikely, that’s all. If you had read Round’s statement (last thread) about how Bruce was selected – and was double-checked – means they put a lot of kudos on that appointment being correct for the job at hand – promotion. And they do not want to again upset the applecart by again changing the manager.
Reason – logic – and by what the Doc and Round has said – says that Bruce will still be here next season … unless he makes a complete hash of it. Which we’ll find out before Christmas.
The short and curlies is that I believe that Andrew has been right all along.
Darren: “Gabby[‘s]… the equivalent of two highly rated youngsters in salary terms that could offer more to Villa than Gabby has done in many a year:
Is that fair Darren? Gabby came on yesterday when Villa were getting nowhere and entirely changed the mood of the game! And scored in an important match.
No youngster would have been able to do what Gabby generated and did yesterday, surely?
In short – belief and impact. Youngsters don’t tend to have that to offer.
A great thread as usual. Some post-match thoughts are up now.