In these days of gnashing of teeth and of wondering when Villa’s next triumphs are going to arrive (if ever!), I’ve been thinking back to days of yore when Villa fans of the time were wondering the same thing. Past times that have been mostly forgotten with the passing of generations, when fans had not gained even a sniff of a major trophy for decades and past times when supporters just couldn’t think that things could get better enough to remove the despair – and how they were pleasantly surprised in the following season.
I could go back to a number of instances of fans’ frustration in Villa’s history, but I will stick to a couple of occasions during my own time as a supporter.
One such situation occurred in season 1955-56, after there had been a huge change-around in the Villa squad as so many old Villa stalwarts had finally succumbed to Old Father Time and retired, and two outstanding Villa players (Blanchflower and Thompson) demanded and got transfers. Villa were basically left with an experienced defence (Jones in goal, Lynn and Aldis at full-back and Con Martin, an ageing but stalwart centre-half) and Johnny Dixon and Vic Crowe. Plus some youngsters – notably attackers Peter McParland and Derek Pace – and a couple of others that were of average ability.
Villa had not done a lot since the end of WW2, apart from season 1951-52 (finishing sixth in a fairly bright season). So the fans had been starved of real successes for quite a long time anyway. Villa had not come close to a big success since 1932-33 (22 years before), when they were league runners-up.
In 1955, having lost the purposeful midfield play of Danny-Boy and Toucher Thompson, Villa (in a rather bizarre way) instead decided that they needed a proven striker. Before the season’s start they went out and paid a lot of money for Dave Hickson who was famous on Merseyside, where he played for Everton and, later, Liverpool and Tranmere, scoring lots of goals.
Well, Villa’s season started badly and didn’t really change in fortune for quite some time. In the first 14 games, Villa won just once but there was a bumper game when Villa drew 4-4 against Busby’s Babes, and was the occasion when Hickson scored his one and only goal for Villa. Not long after he was shipped out as a failure, after 12 starts. As in a recent scenario, perhaps it was the lack of midfield capability that had deprived Hickson of scoring chances. A bit like McCormack?
With Christmas approaching, Villa were scrambling at the bottom of the table. Villa then spent another substantial sum on getting Jackie Sewell to Villa, a scoring inside-forward (essentially a midfielder) who only two years before had played for England in that debacle against Hungary at Wembley, and at that time was still the most expensive player in England (due to his previous transfer price tag). That solitary signing did not help too much and in early January a thumping 6-0 defeat at Stan Matthews’ Blackpool brought about more change. Out went another oldie – centre-half Con Martin – and in came Jimmy Dugdale from the Albion, a Cup-winner with them in 1954. And with not much being generated from Villa’s right-wing, in came Les Smith from Wolves, a player who a few years before had been hailed as a potential world-beater.
Slowly (like today), the wheels started to turn more positively. And, greatly aided by the signing of keeper Nigel Sims in March (who had been Bert Williams’ frustrated understudy at Wolves), just enough points were accumulated and Villa avoided the drop by an absolute fraction. A hat-trick by Derek Pace against fellow strugglers Sheffield United was the key turning point and Villa won their final three matches. In fact, Villa lost only two in their last eleven matches.
What happened in 1956-57 – the very next season – was a complete revelation after the previous season’s hand-wringing and after decades of being in the trophy wilderness. Villa won the FA Cup (and had a reasonable league season), and almost with the very same team that finished off 1955-56. The major change was at right-half where the name ‘Crowe’ morphed into ‘Crowther’ as a result of Crowe’s serious injury: Crowther was a ‘find’ who had only the previous year been playing non-league football. But a big development was the form of Peter McParland, who enjoyed the first of his devastating seasons in 1956-57. One disappointment was Derek Pace, who even lost his Cup Final place. His drop in form (partly due to injury) and that of his alternative (Myerscough) heralded the arrival of Gerry Hitchens the following December.
Villa’s play had not been brilliant (fitness and character were their main characteristics), but the trophy success made the fans very happy and released their pent-up emotions in 1957, 37 years since Villa had previously won a major trophy. However, though Villa played in two further semi-finals over the next three years, and won the League Cup in its inaugural year (1961) when few big clubs were contesting it, Villa did not win another trophy of major status for another 18 years after 1957. Trophy wise, the years 1920 to 1975 were very lean times.
So, let’s fast-forward to season 1973-74, when Villa were seeking a way out of the second tier after six years removed from the top flight. During that time, Villa had seen two years spent in the third tier, and season 1973-74 was to be the second season since their promotion from that. The fans were expecting promotion back to the top at this point, especially as the previous season Villa had finished just a place short of promotion to the top flight, but conceding that the two promoted sides had been of better quality.
Season 1973-74, however, failed to ignite, not aided by a lengthy injury to Villa’s star player, Bruce Rioch. But even with him in the side, Villa did not greatly impress and the club finished below the half-way point in the tier. What was made worse was that Rioch had been loyal to Villa but it came to a point where his career could not remain on hold any longer. By the Spring, Rioch had left for top-tier club Derby, and went on to play for Everton and Scotland with distinction. The fans were not too cheered by the situation.
‘Deadly’ Doug decided that he also was not going to wait any longer and (admittedly with the consensus of the board) dismissed the loyal management team of Vic Crowe and Ron Wylie. But Doug was also not too happy with the choice of Vic’s successor, Ron Saunders, and there was a boardroom debacle about his contract, the result of which Doug stood down from the chairmanship.
Without Rioch, season 1974-75 started with Saunders otherwise using the same squad, bar one new player (Carrodus). But from then until the end of December there were some new signings and flashes of promise, but again the season was not igniting as much as would be hoped. It was only once the new year arrived, and after the changes in personnel had gelled, did an upsurge start to become apparent. For the remainder of the league season (18 matches) Villa incurred only one defeat, and Villa’s last eight matches were all wins and produced 26 goals, 10 of them from Brian Litle, the upcoming young star of that time. Promotion had been achieved and there was the added bonus of winning the League Cup that season. Even more so than in 1957, there was a great upsurge of relief amongst Villa’s fans in 1975, especially as the previous year the future did not look at all bright. The appointment of Ron Saunders didn’t exactly make the fans hopes rise either.
In short, you never know what tomorrow might bring. I’m sure there are those that will argue, “Ah, but that was then; football has since changed a lot.” Well, it has changed, but it has changed for everyone. The common denominators between now and then remain: (1) you can rarely be certain of the result of any match between teams of the same league-tier, (2) the players are still not quite robots: they are still subject to human frailties, and (3) a club with a team manager/coach who can motivate will usually obtain progress. And the fact that football is always full of surprises!
If I was a betting man I’d bet (based on the club’s previous experiences, two of which are cited above) that season 2017-18 will turn out a bit similar to 1974-75, though I’d expect signs of success to be showing well before Christmas, especially as Bruce will have been around for 12 months by then. Some of you may disagree with my optimism!
The Author
John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.Comments 91
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Thanks JL- the seventies/80’s were my era (memorable times at least) Yes Villa came out of nowhere to a degree but They never played turgid football (how could you with Little) and had some supremely talented players, If only we had more than two or three of those now, we might be able to play football, and that is where the comparison ends. In those days you could keep talent on board as the clubs held most of the cards, now? 😉
Mark,
Well, you see Villa did not start to show enterprising football until well after Christmas in that 1974-75 season. And 1973-74 had been poor to say the least.
So, yes, by remembering the latter part of 1974-75 and what happened after that (though 75-76 was not too bright) you tend to think of the good times, and there were plenty of those.
It took Ron Saunders 6 months to get Villa to start running smoothly on its tracks, while Bruce has only had 2 months or so (since bringing in his latest signings) to achieve the same thing. It won’t be until August/September that we can hope to see any correlation between now and what happened under Saunders.
Well unfortunately I can’t remember any of Bruce’s teams hitting that level of performance so its down to father time, I just hope its not two seasons waisted by then.
Mark,
Yes, but Bruce did succeed in winning promotion multiple times, and that’s what we’re after as the next target. What happens after that we’ll have to see. Whoever takes over from him will inherit a good enough foundation I believe.
BTW, I’d say that when Ron Saunders arrived in 1974 his status and capability was judged by fans to be about the same as Bruce’s. Saunders came without having achieved a huge amount and was not known for brilliant football.
Saunders also didn’t have to deal with millionaires and electric gates, he dealt with players who knew the meaning of wearing the claret and blue and didn’t have a face like a spud 🙂
JL In that period of football our game was domineered by British players and managers Scottish particularly and we didn’t have many of those pesky foreign managers with their fancy Ideas like passing 🙂
Mark,
And what did I write in my article? I listed (in the penultimate para) “the common denominators between now and then [that] remain”. And are still to do with most of what football is about. The rest is just dressing in my view.
Hi JL
I will say that we can ALL be selective in picking years of Villa history to extrapolate that Bruce may lead us to nowhere in the same way you’ve picked years that led to fruitful periods in Villa history.
So while it proves that you are both equally positive and optimistic in large amounts, the selective nature of your approach ensures that the article is not a balanced view. So should myself, MK or JG who are chief protagonists in our thought process that all is not rosy in the garden and wish to speak about the realities as opposed to positive mental approaches or some form of clairvoyancy which suggests we’ve turned a corner by beating Wigan or Rotheram as opposed to the reality that right now we are 11th in a crap division, with no recognisable plan on how to play the game other than lets get the results as if that is some sort of solid preparation for our eventual return to the premiership.
If we don’t figure how to play or a way to play this coming season, while we may get promoted, it will leave us wanting in the premiership, where the standard of player is for the most part higher, where the teams are longer established/bedded down in a system and have better managers.
Given we failed the immediate bounce back test, we probably now need a two year plan for promotion at this point, buying another team on promotion, asking them to gel, trying to fit them into a system and all the while trying to beat premiership opposition is a recipe for disaster at most or a risky approach at least. Improve the team now, play a system that will carry through to the premiership and by consistency we’ll be better off on promotion.
Afternoon, JL.
Enjoyed the read, as always. As Mark says, that was my era, too. Still find clippings from the papers in my chest, along with the old programs.
As far as Bruce goes, right now it seems a bit of a crapshoot as to what we’ll see. I guess I’m most curious as to who he sees being the 2-3 players coming in over the summer.
De Laet will likely be back, so you’ll have three vying for the RB spot with Hutton and Bree. Does Amavi stay? I can see him leaving since Taylor’s a better LB and he hasn’t really impressed in midfield.
Does Jedinak drop to the back line? Does Elphick stay? And then there’s a puzzle between Green, Grealish, Hourihane, Lansbury, Bacuna, and Bjarnason. Is it Green battling with Grealish for playing time? Does Bjarnason kick on from the good 30 minutes he finally had before getting injured? He does have an engine.
Bottom line, with a couple more replacements, we should have the talent, and if we keep Kodjia, should have the goals along with Hogan, who hasn’t had the smoothest of intros. The trick, as always, is the ‘team’ part. I can’t help but think that finding a Milner would be transformative.
If the spirit is improving and the dressing room is together, then something ought to start sticking, whatever the system. There are times when we seem very close, and others when we’re far away. And all in the same match.
As you’re well aware, me and the word ‘unconvinced’ seem to go hand-in-hand these days, but, as I also keep repeating myself, it could fall either way.
Yep. The late 70s to early 80s was when I first became a fan, wasn’t expecting Villa to do what they did 81-82. It came as a pleasent surprise. Liverpool, Leeds Utd, WHU, and Man Utd were the most followed clubs here then. 1982 was the first time NZ ever made it to a world cup, so football was strong here then. I was useless at it, played rugby. To this day, though, I think football, when played well, is a better spectator sport because it’s easier to see what’s happening. Also, I’ve never experienced the level of atmosphere at a rugby match that I have at VP or a FIFA world cup match.
Darren: “I will say that we can ALL be selective in picking years of Villa history to extrapolate that Bruce may lead us to nowhere in the same way you’ve picked years that led to fruitful periods in Villa history.”
Mmmmm…. Darren I think you miss the point a little.
The objective was *not* to try to state that Bruce *will* do this or that …. we don’t know yet.
But (included in the idea that we never know what’s round the corner), I was pointing out that when Saunders came in no-one saw him as a someone who was going to make the ground shake. There was nothing in his managerial history to suggest that, and after he left Villa he didn’t achieve anything much.
In fact what you nor Mark have suggested is that perhaps a major part of the secret behind Saunders’ success was Tony Barton! And if that was the case then Saunders probably had a big advantage over Bruce, who I would say is otherwise around equal in capability as a motivator and decision-maker to Saunders.
But my underlying theme is that concerning the complete unpredictability of footie. Literally anything can happen. Nothing much more than that was really intended in my article.
‘If I was a betting man I’d bet (based on the club’s previous experiences, two of which are cited above) that season 2017-18 will turn out a bit similar to 1974-75’
Your final paragraph suggests that another purpose of the article was to selectively chose two season to back up an opinion that Bruce may do the same as Saunders. Clairvoyancy/Optimism or construing the facts for your own ends is your right but it suggests to me I didn’t miss the point being made entirely.
JL- I couldn’t disagree more the urgency to regain prem funds are massive, if you played well in the 70’s the supporters turned up and thats what kept the club going, you couldn’t buy a pair of boots with the matchday money these days. So many things have changed from then, nobody for instance talks about continental style football any more because its over here, another reason the old guard brit managers don’t get the top jobs any longer.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-relegated-premier-league-11154723
Maybe a bit of perspective reading the above of where we have come from in under a year!
As we fret about style in the middle of a unbeaten 9 game run showing fight under the dr and his new team re building us from scratch.
And as we sell the most season tickets in a decade! 🙂
We should all take a minute each day to take our minds back to the dark dark days of randy learner and losing each week without scoring any goals as most of the football world laughed at us.
or is that a bit twisted!!
Andrew- I do thats why I don’t like us playing like we do, scratching results to stay up or go up its all the same. I noticed 36% said we would come straight back up 🙂
Darren: “Your final paragraph suggests that another purpose of the article was to selectively chose two season to back up an opinion that Bruce may do the same as Saunders.”
I was not trying to do that as the main theme, though. But if Bruce *does* turn out to be another Saunders, would that be bad? 🙂
At this moment, we don’t know what might happen.
As I’ve said, when Saunders arrived, no one thought he had the capability to achieve what he did.
But he did, so that allows the possibility that Bruce could do the same … or at least get part of the way there.
Mark,
Going by your rules, Leicester City should have been relegated then? 😉
JC: “… If the spirit is improving and the dressing room is together, then something ought to start sticking, whatever the system. There are times when we seem very close, and others when we’re far away. And all in the same match.”
True. But that is now. Between now and September we would hope that the gel gets gelled! 🙂
Darren,
Another point of my article was to illustrate that despite 55 years of little achievement (1920-1975) the fanbase still held together and still held hopes.
Today, we find ourselves in a fret because it’s been 20 years since we achieved a better top tier league place than 6th!
As Andrew has said so well, that we are where we are after the previous 6 years should at least start to make ourselves feel better about the club. Big achievements can’t take place straight away after what happened under Lerner.
In fact I’d say we are lucky to be where we are right now after those awful years.
Ah, this report sounds nice n’ opti…
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/you-are-the-man-to-take-us-back-to-the-premier-league-aston-villa-fans-react-to-latest-owner-update/
Perhaps 2017-18 *will* be a repeat of 1974-75!
andrew
just go back to jan/feb which because of league we are in, and money spent by bruce in window, was worse than any thing under lerner
most of results in bruce upturn could have swung either way, not one hum dinger of a performance since he took charge , at start season we were battering teams [not getting wins] but at least it was watchable
even under the last doc at villa[venglos] we had home leg v inter milan to remember
JL- “Going by your rules, Leicester City should have been relegated then?”
one what rules? they play counter attack better than we do and won the league with wait for it, a foreign manager
and two the whole world thought they would get relegated are you telling me we are going to produce a miracle 😉
Mark.
If I state a few things I believe I’m more than happy for you to question whether I should be taking a different approach:
I believe that Bruce tends towards a ‘reduced risk’ type of football where you make a team solid at the back as a start point.
He is never going to get us to play passing stylish football.
I believe that with this pragmatic if unexciting football he has a good chance of getting us promoted from this division
I believe that our first (and second and third) priorities should be to get out of this division.
If Bruce succeeds in doing that he should then be given a chance to succeed with us in the premiership and if he fails he should be moved on.
In recent times I would have liked to see Houllier stay healthy and I would have liked to see Garde given a proper chance.
I have mentioned Garde a couple of times before because he’s the one of our recent managers who was, to my mind, our one ‘missed opportunity’.
I don’t mention him regularly though as I have limited evidence to back up my beliefs and I wouldn’t want to appear to be obsessed by him
Robbo- why not be obsessed by garde I wouldn’t moan and everyone seems obsessed with Bruces record to me 🙂 seriously I think your now obsessed with me being obsessed 😉
I think a club of our size should either get a benitez level manager in or imitate spurs or Southamptons methods and Garde would of been great for that and knew the squad .
I agree that we need to return quickly but I also think we will be poorly equipped when/if we do, the whole build three teams scenario is a dangerous one and we are now on our second in one season.
Unfortunately we have missed out on Wagner and Silva both tremendous coaches for Mr results first. I think we could have done what the other top six teams have done and played a more expasive game and be better prepared if/when we go up
P.S. I have no qualms with anything you have written its fair enough and your choice 🙂
Mark,
The issue about “your rules” relates to your message of 3:21pm.
What I was saying is that if your “rules” (therein stated) were applied Leicester would have got nowhere. You’re writing off Villa before we’ve even been promoted! 😉
Clubs like Stoke and Hull are still up there as well.
I see promotion first, then a season of consolidation … and then (?).
sorry JL- Leicester’s rise was very well planned over several seasons with one of the best sports science teams in football along with the much vaunted steve walsh who is now finding Footballing gems for Everton, one of the best in the game. So I am sorry but it was no bit of luck and certainly nothing to do going against my new set of rules I have recently obtained along with my obsession from Rob, lucky me 😉
Hull are not up there because of Bruce mate he bottled it and Silva has them playing some great stuff, stoke have been well run for years now, try Southampton, Bournemouth etc all went up playing great football.
Mark,
You’re right in your comment about those clubs (Leicester etc).
But that was *not* the point – those clubs have not expended the huge amounts of money to achieve PL status (and maintain it) that you seemed to intimate.
Being well run is of course the big need and probably explains their position, but good planning is also seen at Villa in the way the club has been re-structured. And the rest of it – building from a sound playing base – will be there in not a very long period of time.
The chairman (and manager) only arrived in 2016 so we can’t expect it all to be in place so quick, surely?
The chairman (and manager) only arrived in 2016 so we can’t expect it all to be in place so quick, surely?
I think the point is the approach taken isn’t one of producing a base to work from and develop(like Leicester, Bournemouth), the approach has been to get out of this division at all cost, that impatience pushes me towards an idea that we will be ill-equipped for our return and end up buying teams 3 or 4 to stay in the prem and asking them to gel while playing Man U, Chelsea etc or bouncing back to the championship because our football wasn’t good enough.
I firmly believe if we went for an approach where it is quality of football first, the results would have come, we’d see progression and we’d have patience from the board and be better prepared over the same period of time to return to the prem in the 2018/19 season.
Most fans believe what they are sold. RdiM went up with West Brom, Champions League winner who better to manage, beaten 2-0 by Preston, fans complain and suddenly he was never the right man, than 4 promotion Bruce (relegations never mentioned) is appointed and makes some very obvious mistakes but given time as we need stability (but didn’t need it under RdiM) and during the ‘blip’ we’re told he has character. None of the above smacks of a considered plan to play better football that would naturally achieve the same impatient wins Bruce is getting now.
As all our eggs are in the Bruce basket, if Bruce fails and with FFP taking precedence, despite Wyness’ pronouncements about planning for it, it will mean less and less investment in playing staff or bargain hunting in the lower leagues, something Villa did under Lerner and look where that got us. We’d then need a manager prepared to work under constrained circumstances but hopefully with a footballing background that we see us organically grow back to the prem and realise two years were wasted. So much is riding on season 2017/18, lets hope the players can take the pressure.
Darren: “I think the point is the approach taken isn’t one of producing a base to work from and develop(like Leicester, Bournemouth), the approach has been to get out of this division at all cost”
The “point” I was referring to was that which Mark stated several messages further up.
Having said that, the point about development from the bottom up is (of course) extremely valid, and any club not building on that foundation would surely be on to a hiding to nothing.
But though the club is not there yet (as I said, less than a year – made worse by how the club was run down before the new chairman) there have already been significant changes in how the club is run to meet the challenge of ‘bottom-up’ building.
So though promotion *appears* to be a target “in haste” I see evidence that the club is also taking a longer term view. Apart from which I don’t think that a businessman like the Doc would make the kind of pronouncements without having a sound plan to reinforce his words. If I am proven wrong then I’ll eat my toenails. Well, the tips at least!
And, again, I do see the beginnings of youth being given their chance without throwing them into the ring unprepared, which is all part of the bottom-up process.
We probably see matters from a different stance. I’d prefer to let the club just get on with it and if it all shows signs of backfiring then get at ’em. This talk of RdiM ad nauseum is just not worthwhile i.m.o. and, in any case, I was not impressed by what I saw as some people have appear to have been.
While Bruce is not the world’s greatest, I gave RdiM time enough to show whether he was getting through to the players and saw nowt. Worse, he bought two players to add to a third that were due to be away in January.
This club has been through total mismanagement for too many years. It will take time, energy and a lot of skill to put it back into shape, and I believe they’re doing their best.
Darren, All due respect,
I find your post a bit contradictory, to begin with you highlight promotion at all costs at the expense of being ill equipped for the Prem, I agree. But I don’t think too many Villa fans would complain if by some unexpected outcome of results saw us promoted, (not going to happen, by the way)
You identify putting football first, playing a better style, results will happen. Maybe, I don’t disagree. You refer to a patient approach. This would require developing a club philosophy and nurturing young players from the academy, like the Southhampton, Bournmouth model you refer to. Thats a long term objective and could take 2,3 years or more. I think more.
You go on to say all our eggs are in the Bruce basket, well, yes they are. But there going to be. Dr X made a decision, same as he did with RdiM. Selecting an employee in any situation is all about past performance, and then how they perform in post. Its seems there was a breakdown in communication between RdiM and the players. It seems he was aloof and unapproachable and I’m not convinced the players responded to him. The players are responding to Bruce, apart from the mid winter blip. And I agree about the current style of play, Bruce sees that also, he’s stated as much, but he desperately had to get results, and he’s done that. This bloke can manage, what I mean by that is, if a club comes along with big money for Kodjger, he’ll take it its good business, He got money for Gestede and Ayew who aren’t exactly setting the Prem on fire, and Westwood who’s on the bench at Burnley.
We’re a differant club to Southamton and Bournmouth with differant expectations. Bruce may fail, I agree. There’s no magic wand. But I do think the current manager is more in the Villa mould than, for example Wagner. I don’t think he could hack the pressure and expectancy At B6 as you stated re; RdiM, a 2-0 loss to Preston and fans complain.
As I stated at the start, all due respect, but not sure what your expectaions are or how you would like to see it achieved.
The journey continues.
Arch
The one thing I do agree with 100% is theres no magic wand.
We all get excited when we sign someone or go on a good run, but the big picture is turning this giant club around after years of abuse and neglect is sadly no quick fix. Maybe qpr is the only other club ive seen treated so badly.
saw today villa top the list last season of payments to directors!! cheers randy. I mean top the bloody list in front of arsenal, utd city etc!!
I belive 100% that we are re building with the right people. By right people I mean honest, genuine and commited people. theres a lot to be said for that after seeing the poison at vp under randy.
Hi Archie
I don’t have any expectations as such, I’ve a desire for promotion as we all do but with a patient approach that allows the football to be developed as opposed to what I see as a rush for promotion. The caveat to all that is I don’t own the club, it’s not my money so my vested interest goes so far as wanting the best for Villa. So real world stuff takes over and Dr.T wants to recoup some of his investment by being at the top table sooner rather than later.
I’ve no evidence or ITK contact that proves to me that RdiM had lost the dressing room or wasn’t wholly interested in being there, so your comments are hearsay and if accurate then it proves a further bad decision was made that impacted Villa but this time not under Lerner.
I get it, I really do, winning is better than losing. I also fully understand how far the mighty have fallen, my issue is how we achieve our return and on our return how suggested plans of buying another team could derail us as much as it could be the making of us. That kind of planning doesn’t sit well with me. I’d prefer organic growth, proper investment in youth and a manager who was focussed on getting Villa playing well first and seeing the fruits of that over two years. To my mind it would prove a longer lasting approach to being back in the prem.
Given how far we fell, this season was never going to work out for us, we were a club in turmoil, buying the best part of two teams in the transfer windows equally showed an impatient approach and expecting them to gel while going for promotion was not a plan. Thankfully the next transfer window will be about tweaking on specific positions but the standard of football needs to improve to achieve promotion never mind when it comes to playing the likes of Man U etc. I suppose given the outlay and the impression we’ve bought better players that the fruits of better play should be there, I’m only seeing the fruits of better results. I put that lack of better play down to a manager who has not been at top clubs because he has not been good enough, Bruce sees us as a big club but why at the height of our turmoil should he be given a chance if he’s not good enough to manage in the prem.
Andrew: “I belive 100% that we are re building with the right people. By right people I mean honest, genuine and commited people…”
Well said. The Doc has been a refreshing breeze since he came. OK, he’s had to learn a bit on the job, but he doesn’t show signs going under – nor would I expect him too.
Yes, I don’t think we’ve ever really had a competent and truly committed board in place since Rinder was ousted 90+ years ago. This is the first time I’m thinking that the old Villa values can truly be restored.
Darren: “… so your comments [about RdiM] are hearsay and if accurate then it proves a further bad decision was made that impacted Villa but this time not under Lerner.”
Anyone can make an error of this kind, but the kind of things we’ve been levelling at Lerner is for his blatant *total* mismanagement at the club.
But I saw clearly that RdiM was not managing the players well. For goodness sake, Codger only scored one goal before Bruce arrived! That’s a small example, but clearly Bruce had more impact on the same players when he came in but quickly saw that those players were not good enough – in attitude at least. Bruce’s signings will mostly prove to be of good value next season, I believe.
Darren: “I put that lack of better play down to a manager who has not been at top clubs because he has not been good enough”
Or maybe – just maybe – he’s been a victim of the fad for foreign coaches.
john l
was randy lerner not a breath of fresh air when he took over
John
The dr, bruce, anyone is going to make mistakes. But the key is not being stubborn and worried about losing face and fixing the mistakes.
Completely agree it feel like we are getting our club slowly back. You look matchday at vp and see ian taylor, little, wyness always together. mervyn king has been back with them too.
Its a whole host of little things to how the club are acting.
Like we are the only club playing this sat in the champ as they didn’t want to upset the church near vp as they have a big service good Friday. so didn’t switch it which would of been better for us as we play Monday lunch time
Codger only scored one goal before Bruce arrived!
Hogan has only scored one goal since arriving but 14 before that, not sure what point you are trying to make, is Bruce a footballing demi-god for Kodija but a footballing neanderthal for Hogan.
Maybe the system under RdiM allowed for other players to contribute goals and now our only out-ball is to get it to Kodija (it’s effective) but where is the midfield contribution to goals now, are they all sitting on the bus parked in front of Johnstone.
James
No one knows how the dr will turn out for villa. can only judge on whats happening this minute. with just an idea of how the club are gearing up to the future.
Under randy all was ok with oneil getting the results and I was guilty of turning a blind eye to off the field events…..soon un ravelled though!
andrew
the reason we not playing tomorrow is either
good football bruce is not allowed in one sentence, or
we have suffered enough, one crucifixion a day is enough
james
brilliant 🙂
JG 🙂
James: “was randy lerner not a breath of fresh air when he took over”
That’s what we thought at the time, but it proved to be a complete facade.
In contrast, we now have a chairman who engages with the fans and we have a clearer idea (*not* clear entirely!) of what he’s about. There’s much more sincerity.
Don’t forget I was at VP during Lerner’s first 4 years and could feel then the nature of the operation.
Darren,
As I said, talking about RdiM is a waste of time really. We can talk about what his intentions were until we’re blue in the face, but the fact is that the only win we obtained under his reign was that against the bottom team in the division.
john l
there was no talk of dc tony before he took over villa,no one can say what he is worth ,how much he is willing to pump into club,so i think we need a bit more time before we can say if he is an improvement that lerner
JL- Actually the Buying of Kodjia happened because Hernadez of Hull wanted ridiculous wages so we dropped to Kodjia (thank god or we’d be relegated) Add RMC and you have three of last years top 4 strikers in this league there, as its said you need a goal scorer in this league not the worst idea, Bruce tried to buy the 7th best in Rhodes but turned to Hogan.
kodjia also Had about 4-5 shots on target a game under RDM ( I remember keepers performing Miracles in several matches to keep him out) and he only played in the last six along with Adomah who played barely 3 times ( now his best partner) and Jedinak 5 times de laet 3.
So early season RDM had one team and set of forwards then 5-6 games in had another 3-4 players to accommodate. As you seemed so keen on giving Bruce time to gel during his 1 point in 8 game streak I am surprised that you appear to brush over what RDM actually had to work with under immense pressure from the fans who were still in booing mode from the lerner era.
If you look at the teams RDM drew with in that period you will find that in 6 of them Bruce lost corresponding fixtures 😉
Before RDM got to us he had a 51% win rate Overall with WBA he W26 D11 L7 in this league in 2009/10
didn’t seem to have an aloofness problem there? just didn’t inherit a mess.
I will now close my RDM scrap book but one day the truth will out I have no doubt.
I will add RDM sacked while being 10 points off 6th and Bruce brought in on one year rolling contract as the promotion specialist and is now 9 points of 6th, its the way I tell ’em 😉
Mark, Re; RdiM, If he’s as good as you say, he’ll fetch up somewhere and be the success you think he’ll become.
Statistics…shmatistics
We’ll never know. We only have the here and now. We have to give the current incumbent the summer, clear out what he doesn’t need, improve the current squad and give it a go in August.
Thats all we have. RdiM’s a paragraph in JL’s next publication of AVFC History, leave it there mate.
Enjoy the Easter weekend
Arch
Archie- other people seem more bothered about him than I am mate 😉 couldn’t care less if he never wins another game I am just highlighting the Incredible allowances made for Bruce who I also couldn’t care less about as a manager and the lack thereof for RDM who got the shittier end of the shit stick. I will never mention him again unless I do 🙂 enjoy your Easter eggs mate
James,
What you say about the doc is a bit unlikely. But I did not say he was definitely the bee’s knees, all I am saying is that he’s going about things pretty well the right way i.m.o. The management re-structuring as a case in point, apart from his communication capability.
Mark,
I think you’re again misinterpreting what I am saying … or maybe I’m not clarifying enough.
It could be that it was just RdiM’s incapability at dealing with the crazy and highly regrettable legacy that he was left. He didn’t have to face that at Albion, did he? No-one – as far as I know – has had that kind of nonsense to face in a supposedly top class club.
So there may be good reasons why his way didn’t show up well … and maybe why a Bruce type of manager was more applicable for that situation.
But whatever it is, it’s just not worth talking about anything pre-February as I’ve said – I don’t think that “legacy” was anywhere dealt with until Bruce brought in his own signings and offloaded those he didn’t want and who were probably part of the problem.
BOTH managers have had an uphill situation to face, it’s just that I think Bruce is the better equipped of the two – in *that* situation. Given a clear run (as at Albion) RdiM may well have done OK.
Mark: “I am just highlighting the Incredible allowances made for Bruce”
I don’t think anyone is, to be honest. We’ve all been uttering some level of doubt; all that some of us ask is that he be given enough time … especially (as written in my last message) given the legacy that this club had thrown at them by Lerner and his inadequate team.
john l
from an outsider lerner looked to be going right way about everthing
,doc maybe a bit too quick with communication side of it, but in all honesty we have 1 more chance to get promoted back to the money or we will be another big club drifting aimless going nowhere, wyness who some think is bee knees , why was he out of english game for so long,and round where has he had same responsibilty before bit like fox and german lad under lerner
all bit like bruce good run built on sand maybe
JL- As I said RDM inherited a mess
Bruce has embraced the lingering smell of Gabby and Richards John, Rudy and Westwood were no trouble, cissoko the same, Ayew was a miserable git but then again always was. So for the life of me how has he got rid of the trouble makers? other than RMC apparently and making it more British?
I think calling for stability when Bruce had lost 7 on the bounce while RDM gets battered for Drawing 7 in 11 and for being moody is one hell of an allowance.
mark k
who is john?
agree on rest of post
micah making more videos, does our board never learn
Old Villa/IanG
Hope you guys are doing well. Just collected my repeats of escitalopram and warfarin, three months worth-should prevent clots for a while. It’s also good rat poison, which is what it was originally developed for. The guys down at the native bush reserve claim it takes 1mg of warfarin to kill a rat. I usually take 2-3mgs daily depending on current INR level.
JG
Those are expensive videos. Wonder if he’ll ever be useful again. Owes Villa big time, so does Gabby. It might be too hard for them now. I liked Micah when he was at Man City and Gabby wasn’t bad once. I think Micah is liked at Villa because apparently he’s always positive. He might come right as a right back. Gabby seems to be at straining point every game he plays. Surely too unreliable to include him in any long term plans.
Iana,
You and I must swig back some Warfarin together one day! 😉
I’ve been on it for 15 years and I’m still alive. Some people call me Super-rat! 🙂
JL,
Yep, next time I’m in Brum, we’ll have a warfarin party with a pint:)
Happy Easter.
I have more chance of becoming sea-faring than taking warfarin lads
Came across some very interesting technology yesterday, pulsed electro magnetic waves at the Schumann resonance or earths resonance are doing some incredible things for health. Literally recharging your batteries
JG- John= JL 😉
What?! So I’m part of “the lingering smell” am I !!!
Warfarin doesn’t smell … so there!
Mark,
When I stated “offloaded those he didn’t want and who were probably part of the problem” I wasn’t literally talking about ‘trouble-makers’. I was referring to players that did not contribute enough to getting positive results or whose style did not fit for Bruce’s purpose.
Gabby we can debate until we’re blue in the face. As I’ve said, I think he’s not of a strong character and got his head turned by the malaise that was existing at the club. I think he probably thought it was easier to join the sham rather than try to fight it. Bruce’s attitude (and the new owner) has helped to change that attitude around. But for fitness reasons I’d say his days at Villa are pretty well at an end now.
Haha the dr
Said the only thing he wants between now and rest of season is hogan and kodjer to score in same game with assisting each other 🙂
Might read this blog?!!
Mark
Huddy one down!
Lost 3 in 4 too!
Bruce not sure whether to chuck kids in or try and keep the unbeaten run going.
Id play kids
Andrew yes mate I think they were a couple of strikers down for a while lately shit happens, wish we had 74 points 🙁
And they lost at PNE earlier bit of a bogey team then
JL- well what I was referring to was the slackers at the club which Gabby definitely was, easily lead? good club captain then, I think you give him far to much credit going on previous seasons and goings on.
This time of season you need to avoid teams who have summin to play for. Anything can happen.
We have some tough games with reading, fulham, blues, blackburn. Who are all fighting for summin.
Mark
Wagner goes through a tough spell shit happens.
Bruce does and he is rubbish. Hmmm
Yeah want there points tally though 🙁
Fulham playing with 10 men for a whole half. Tire em out!
Andrew- ???? 🙂 play off positions???? incredible season on £3m net????? yes well done Steve Bruce
ahem- 2-1 Huddersfield
fulham and sheff weds winning
Huddersfield now 2-2 come on win then Newcastle lose 🙂
can we buy tom cairney please
unless we have a deal done for johnson , no real reason to play him time for sarkic
same for mutton [awol for goal last week again]
so now we need to play sarkic,birr green amavi, and any rest young ladsfit
3-2 hudders come on leeds would love Newcastle to be in the play offs
JG you have to ask what development ?
Steve Bruce says there could be more first team chances for the likes of Keinan Davis, Corey Taylor and Callum O’Hare before the end of the season.
With this season’s promotion chances looking incredibly slim, Bruce will be looking for his team to finish as high as possible and gain momentum for the coming campaign.
But he also revealed that giving some of our Young Lions a chance in the closing weeks of the season is also in his thinking.
He said: “There’s a little bit in me that we need to finish on a high. There’s a little bit in me to say ‘let’s give the kids a chance’.
“But there’s a little bit of me saying that the lads deserve to keep going because they have earned the right to be in there.
“So I will ponder it all and look at it. “But let’s not forget that we have all of pre-season too. That’s a hugely important time for me.
“I have been quietly impressed with the kids. When we have needed them, especially Greeny, they have stepped up to the plate. It’s in my mind.
”There’s a little bit in me to say ‘let’s give the kids a chance’.
Mark,
Well, here we go again, knock the manager because he has a dilemma!! 😉
But let’s see what happens this week-end … two big matches, in fact, and only 48 hours apart. Bruce is very likely to have to vary the team a bit.
Jl- sorry if he’s not going to use theses last games to see what he’s got available to him and maybe use the ones he has to better effect then he has got a dilemma, one of intelligence. How the hell can he say these players have earnt their places so they deserve to play? On one hand they are all tired because of to many games the next minute they deserve to play. And even scarier was he hopes to get us back to where we belong in the top 6 of this league!!! Omg the drivel just pours out of this bloke.
Mark,
We all hope for perfection – but rarely find it! 😉
Now here’s something to be concerned about…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/2017-famines/?utm_term=.673eb17f938d
JL- perfection? just making sense will do mate 😉
Yes Syria gets all the news coverage while the Saudis and others wage war by starving nations, isn’t it the way of the world John? their on our side so they are good guys and have money and oil, I watched the comic relief knowing the famine they talked about and showed were eerily lacking males in the picture, all women and children staving while the men were away fighting and the enemy cut off their supplies, but not mention of war that I can remember, lovely world we live in.
Johnstone, Hutton, Chester, Baker, Hourihane, Bacuna, Jedinak, Lanasbury, Adomah, Kodjia, Amavi.
Subs: Elphick, Hogan, Bree, Gardner, Grealish, Richards, Sarkic.
And we’re off…Fresh sheet of paper up now.