The Express and Star reports:
A total of five new players were expected to make their home debuts against Ipswich, including striker Scott Hogan who joined on deadline day from Brentford for £12million.
Bruce said of the new boys: “They’ve all got a bit of fire in their belly to achieve. They realised it’s a great step and opportunity.”
So, is this the day of reckoning? Is this the day that Bruce’s team – the first one at Villa Park with his stamp – shows sufficient to say that “all is now well?”
Individually, each of the new acquisitions look to me like signings that could bring pride back to Villa Park after seven years of shillying and shallying at the Club. The real question is, though, can they work together as a team?
But Bruce seems confident, saying that McCarthy’s teams always play the same way – that they are predictable, and that he (Bruce) is ready for what they have to offer.
We await the outcome of today’s match with hot water bottles on our laps, and mittens on our hands.
The Author
John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.Comments 350
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Thanks JL
Bruce will have to cope with having possession today and I fully expect a win, Ipswich have a similar record to us away and home, we drew 0-0 there toward the end of RDM’s reign as he tried to steady the ship with a hard fought draw. I want to see some football played today regardless of result, if we continue to play in negative fashion I cannot see the rest of the season changing, keep doing the same thing you generally get the same result.
2-0 for me and Hogan scores
Hello John.
We’ve mostly learnt not to expect much from Villa teams in the last decade. Today, in my view, is massive for the club. If the new look team lose, many a fan will numb themselves with apathy until Brucie goes. I suspect, though, Villa will win today. I’m glad Brucie has said he wants stability, and needs to settle on a more consistent lineup. God willing, we’ll see a lineup today that can play team football and win the match.
I see Gabby is still injured. It really is obvious, with his long record of consistent injuries or whatever, that he needs to be moved on. AVFC isn’t a physiotherapy clinic. It’s a football club, and like any other club it needs players that can actually play reasonably consistently. Consistently injured/unfit players lose form on return while they play themselves back into match fitness. With Gabby, it’s a never ending cycle.
That keeper better stop making mistakes, otherwise the fans will get on his back, and he’ll lose confidence.
2-0 Villa
UTV
Mark,
Well, SB has signed players with the noted ability to play footie, so if we see something that doesn’t resemble “footie” rather than too much “high-ballie” then there would be summat wrong somewhere!
I’ll let em take 20 minutes to settle than go in at h-t 2-0 up … and win 2-1 !!
Iana,
Yes… If Villa were to lose this match it would be the first home defeat at home this season, and double the reason for the condemnation of Bruce.
Basically, Villa cannot afford to lose this one for all kinds of reasons … and they really *must* win … and win with some hint of style at least.
what the fuck hutton jesus are we never going to be rid,last week play right footed birr left back,no amavi either bye bye bruce
James,
Bree is said to be injured … and Amavi has lost it as a defender i.m.o. As someone else said (Darren?) Amavi might be excellent in a position further up the pitch, but he disappoints for me as a real No. 3. Having said that Bruce is playing wing-backs, so …. mmmm.
john l
think wing back would suit amavi perfect,taylor didn t get a ringing endorsement from swansea fans
Started ok but normal service resumed, I see Forest are 3-0 down 🙁
Villa having plenty of shots but they’re not moving the goal posts fast enough to collect ’em… 🙂
so depressing listening to talksport,plenty goals in championship but as usual none at villa park
but what can expect playing 5 defenders,leaving adoamh green out
Huddersfield 2-0 up at QPR, meanwhile we are still unable to score and I agree with the commentators the formation has no place for wingers or a no10, so Green, adomah, Grealish might as well sell them.
mark k
wouldnt be easier to change formation, but spud to thick for that,playing 532 and leaving attacking full backs out, like its not that we are playing chelsea at stamford bridge its ipswich and madmick at villa park
James,
Villa have sent in 13 shots before h-t, so there’s no lack of chances being created. That’s not the problem – the problem is to get the shooters to put their shots on goal.
john l
following match on sky vidi printer[plus listening to talksport] 3 shots on target no mention of good saves ,birr hit the bar,plus ipswich have already made 2 subs
James,
13 shots is 13 shots though. Albeit it finished at 14 shots at h-t!
What I was saying is that the problem is to get the shooters to put their shots on goal, not creating chances.
To me its about the football we play, there’s chances then there are well worked chances, the Latter usually give you more chance of converting the chance , we create the former generally. How many times have we had the chance to roll the ball to a player to Tap in? plenty we just don’t do it, the onus is always on the player to score a blinder.
john l
from what i am reading a couple hogans chances came from huttons crosses,its either hogan trying something awkward or behind him ,
like 352 with proper players not full backs like whats playing plus you need centre halves comfortable with ball,would say that about baker or what i have seen of elphik
steady 442 with our players home 2wingers we have front men
James/Mark,
I don’t disagree with you about “how”, but if they’re creating chances then that at least is progress! 🙂
Now it’s showing 16 shots, 5 on target.
JG I can’t disagree mate
JL- Progress? its a flaming miracle 😉
At least Ipswich are equally inept 🙂
john l
just pissed of another ,saturday wasted at leastits not on the box,talksport or sky are not even taking commentray from it
time for changes
Adomah on … Hutoon off.
We seem to have got to that point in the match … that regular point … where slack has taken over and nothing forthcoming. This seems to happen whoever is in the team!!
It looks as though Villa put everything in to getting a goal in the first half, and they’re now thinking out Plan B!
derby back in it,imagine 5 goals in amatch
Green on … Taylor off.
Baker has now had 3 attempts go wide.
20 attempts on goal now, 7 on target.
shoot me now
Derby right back in it! 3-3.
spud had his chips time to go
What the…….?????
Oh dear.
McCormack scores for Forest 4-1` now
Again, the opponents score with their first attempt on goal!
JL- begs the question why we sacked RDM?
They’ve now brought on Bacuna.
I’ve been thinking (amazingly!)…..
If Bruce wants to play wing-backs, then all he had to do was pick Bacuna and Amavi. He didn’t need two new backs. Am I right?
Oh, you really do like RDM don’t you Mark?!
No … frankly I couldn’t see progress with him. And I am swinging to the anti-Bruce side now as well … I think.
JL- yes you are, which means he’s brought in players with no plan, hence the we will try something different at Forest
Well, it’s not that “no plan” business that bothers me so much.
It’s more to do with ….
1. How can we give a goal to the opponents when they put their first attempt on goal… and
2. How can you not score when you’ve sent in 21 attempts at goal?
Now surely it doesn’t need a big plan to get over those issues?
JL- No I don’t like RDM? I just don’t see the difference between the two other than we play worse football. RDM 7 Draws we could or should of won, one win against bottom team 3 losses. Bruce five wins against bottom six teams lost 7, I think RDM would of won those games against the bottom and he never lost to a top side either bar opening game at weds which was a freak goal .
johnl
patience for spud gone dont blame you mine was gone at xmas
JL- we dont keep the ball at all mate, we are attack or defence thats it. No pass and move thats whats missing
Well, Bruce is running very dangerously on a low tank now…
Much more and he will be out.
JL- “How can you not score when you’ve sent in 21 attempts at goal?”
because they are rushed chances the build up is not there to pull the defence apart for a clear shot. Seen it in all our games so far its why RMC was frustrtated.
Bye bye Bruce
Mark: “because they are rushed chances the build up is not there to pull the defence apart for a clear shot.”
Forget about Ross, he was lacking confidence …
We today had two strikers on form … I’m not convinced that what you say was 100% the case … the problem is we didn’t see the match so we don’t really know what happened today. Hopefully we might get a glimpse of something to give a clue on ITV5 tonight.
Mark,
The Mail has just made the statement “Villa should have scored had it not been for their wasted opportunities.” With Codger being particularly wasteful they say.
So – it sounds like clear chances not taken.
From the Mail’s assessment it looks as though Hutton and Elphick have to be dropped.
Well, if Bruce does that and gives Codger a kick up the backside perhaps we might get somewhere!
The Express and Star reports:
Hourihane would have maked the occasion with a first goal in Villa colours inside it the opening ten minutes were it not for the brilliance of Bialkowski, who sprang into action twice in the space of 60 seconds to deny the hosts.
The keeper first denied Lansbury with a diving save away to his left after the midfielder had been quickest to react to a blocked free-kick and fired a volley toward goal.
Moments later he bettered it, somehow keeping out Hourihane’s low driven effort after the ball had fallen perfectly for the Irishman ten yards out.
Next it was Bjarnason’s turn to go close, the Iceland international clattering a shot off the bar after being presented with the ball in space on the edge of the box when a training ground free-kick routine had completely fooled the visiting defence.
Hogan and Jonathan Kodjia both went close for Villa but there was no way through before the break.
Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2017/02/11/aston-villa-0-ipswich-1-report/#QVrch4gzLDs9EOjV.99
Firstly, sorry to hear about Steamer lifers. Seemed a real nice fella from my interactions with him on this forum, I’m sure if he was still hear he’d be calling for Bruce out tonight!
My own thoughts are that Bruce seems unsure on what to do formation wise. I’m pretty sure when we took over he employed a 4-4-3 quite successfully but this seems to have gone by the wayside. The 3-5-2 seems to be complicating things. I’m of the opinion Kodija should be played wide as he’s way too selfish to play in a 2 man strike force, perhaps if he starts wide he’d pass it more. I would be starting Gardner in the absence of Jedinak as no one else at our disposal can play the holding role with Lansbury and CH ahead and I’d drop the Icelandic chap who for my money is very limited. I think Amodah has been as good as anyone else this season and would go with him on the right so the team for Tuesday would look something like Johnstone, Taylor, Baker, Chester, Bree, Gardner, CH, Lansbury, Kodija, Hogan, Adomah.
If Bruce does not realise his mistakes or if the 3-5-2 doesn’t work on Tuesday put me down for Bruce out, Bruce is a championship manager at best in any case and is no better than Warnoc/McCarthy/Holloway/Houghton even Iain Dowie and Roy Keane. He has never achieved anything bar championship promotion and never will.
Who to replace him? Easy, Dean Smith/Mark Warburton/ Gary Rowett
Villa seem to come up against a great keeper or other unfortunate force of nature every week. Forest shipped 5 today
ross suffered from the codja syndrome as is hogan shoot when ever you get within 40 yards of goals
seem to remember couple taps ross would had if codja had passed,then low and behold ross confidence rises and more goals but no odds
spud out calderwood out clemence out now
paul whiting
our efforts v forest where what i call powder puff on target but no fizz speed
Sky video highlights:
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/aston-villa/10764405/aston-villa-0-1-ipswich
Rags,
Well said. I think I’ve come to roughly the same conclusions.
I listened to it all JL and Kodjia was pulled up by the commentator for not giving the ball when he should, he did it with RMC he’s doing it with Hogan. As I said earlier RMC came on late when forest were losing 4-0 and scores, we will see whether its confidence or frustration very soon.
Anyway there is no excuse for Bruce because that report looks like most the games played under RDM. So much for seeing the midfield’s weak eh? why buy attacking mids and play the way we do? Two creative mid-fielders in the side, keep the ball and play.
JL- just watched the Lowlights and my opinion remains unchanged the chances we had were not worked attempts or at least clean chances, ironically Ipswich managed exactly that in counter attack stylee no less.
Highlights show nothing offered after half-time….why is it they can’t play 90 mins?
Mark,
Well, my interpretations are not as yours, but – who knows – we might end up wanting the same thing.
I have no problem with the attacking mids who I see as being creative types anyway. As far as the midfield is concerned I don’t really see a problem: the issues seem more to me more about who you play on the flanks, and I’m thinking any two of Bacuna. Bree, Taylor and Amavi, depending on whether you want defensively orientated full-backs or attacking types. With Albert and Green as an alternative choice if playing with more conventional full-backs and 2 c-bs.
I do think that the Hutton selection was a big mistake today. And it was Elphick’s slip that helped Ipswich through to score: it seems he was not too good today anyway.
Make those adjustments and (as you say) get Codger to be more team orientated, and … hey presto! … we may have a side.
Rags team of Johnstone, Taylor, Baker, Chester, Bree, Gardner, CH, Lansbury, Kodija, Hogan, Adomah makes sense to me, though not too sure about Gardner.
I’m really not surprised about the outcome of todays fixture. Not having seen the game, I’m in no position to give a critical appraisal.
For me, I’d go with what we have, sack Bruce, maybe, personally I’d leave it, give Bruce a pre season and an opportunity to give it a go next season. If we’re mid table next Christmas, we have our answer.
Oh an by the way…relegation…nah, no chance.
16th on the table. They really needed a win. Brucie is on thin ice. I see Forest lost 5-1 to Norwich. Given lastweek’s result, Villa still look pretty poor. They were profligate.
I’ve only seen the highlights, so can’t say much about individuals, but obviously, the team was, once again, second best on the day.
Just got home from another shocking visit to Villa Park……Knew there would be problems as soon as the team sheet was published…..
Johnstone (very poor goalkeeper), Chester, Elphick , Baker as a back three, occasionally supported by a very poor Taylor, midfield Bjarnason, Lansbury, Hourihane, Hutton(playing as a winger???)
with Kodjia and Hogan up front.
Most of the early attacking was about quick balls, but the shots on target apart from a couple of good early ones were weak and from long range, and rarely troubled the keeper.
We should have not had a problem with a good set-up to score at least a couple before half-time, but as the time went on as usual, it was a game about a disjointed team, not knowing how to play together, and the frustrations built, but at least it was still 0-0 at half time.
The second half did not improve, but there was an occasional glimmer, but most balls were either to easy for the keeper, or too long for Hogan to be able to make anything of. I think it was fairly early on, he had a great through ball in the box, but slipped over at the crucial moment.
As the time continued to tick away, we felt that the normal Villa trick would happen, and it did. a simple breakaway by the tractor boys nearly ended in a goal, and it was only a matter of time before they had another and scored.
If Bruce wanted to use wingers/wingbacks, why didn’t he start with Bacuna and Amavi, who would both given the necessary service.
If Bruce still has a job by next Saturday, Villa Park will be empty….!!!
Taylor is useless. He’s a reject from a sinking prem club. Hutton still starts and yet he’s not good enough to clean the lavatories. The Iceland, or is it Tesco, bloke is shite…Brett Holman mark2. Elphick is a liability.
Xia will soon become Lerner…spent a load of money on a dreadful club and can’t see what is needed next.
PP- Glad to hear your version of the game, listening on the radio the chances were speculative on the whole, we just don’t create clear cut chances often enough and fail to keep possession for meaningful periods.
Eddie Jones shows what a quality coach brings along with a steely resolve, Bruce hasn’t got it for me. This is from the mail in defence of Bruce, well somebody should point out that Wagner is doing miracles at Huddersfield yet poor Bruce cant get his top players to play? and I suspect those players are not thinking they are on Holiday or made it at Villa, Its was RDM’s failings, its now Bruces.
“Money doesn’t mean a thing.
It buys good players, and gives you an edge over teams with less money, of course.
These things only matter if everything is ticking along like clockwork.
The team spirit has to be spot on, the work ethic has to be spot on, and the personnel has to be spot on.
It’s like having a car with a great engine and rubbish bodywork, you can stick a whole new exterior to the engine to make that car great once again.”
Money doesn’t mean a thing, quality leadership and coaching does IMO.
MK,
To complete your analogy…but you can’t stick a useless engine in a gleaming new body and expect it to win…
Today, as I have said was not unlike the Forest game, looking great for the first ten minutes, and then the gradual decline. Yes Lansbury had one great shot, Hourihane the same, and Bjarnason hit the post, but with the payers we had, and the intial possession against a very poor Ipswich team we should have been winning comfortably by half time, but not with square pegs in round holes. What a difference Green and Bacuna could have made if they had started the game.
Tuesday must be Bruce’s last game, if he can’t get a win out of Barnsley. The guy who scored for Ipswich today was a loanee from Cardiff …!!!
See Hoolihan is still performing at Norwich…Bent two goals against Bristol, Rhodes and McCormack both on target, and Callum Robinson for Preston…everybody keeping an eye on Traore and his skills at ‘Boro….Albrighton in the week for Leics…..So much wasted Villa talent and near misses..and we still can’t buy wins…
Mark/Paul Pears
Mark 2:22
“And no man puts new wine into old wineskins: else the new wine does burst the wineskins, and the wine is spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined: but new wine must be put into new wineskins.”
Your analogies resonate, and are timeless. Looking at it this way, you are right to claim that we need a modern thinking manager unless, Bruce can adapt and get this lot playing as a team in a winning way. Stability seems to be a word that is kicked around a lot these days. That is Dr.X’s and Villa’s big dilemma. How long does he wait before squeezing the trigger?
Villa could have won the match but for the odd team selection and ineffective formation. Why five at the back? He said he wants stability in team selection, but he’s taking too long to settle on a 1st XI. I’d go with 4-4-3 or 3-5-2. I’d think about bringing in Villa people to coach, if there’s anyone up to it. There is also a bit of cleaning out left to do.
Adomah should be a starter and Green, Amavi and RMH need to feature more often to inject thrust into the side and get some youthful zest into the team.
Iana: “you are right to claim that we need a modern thinking manager unless, Bruce can adapt and get this lot playing as a team in a winning way. “
Yes, and he still does have that chance. Frankly, whatever happens on Tuesday, I can’t see him going that quickly. He will go before too long if nothing turns round.
I have confidence in most of his buys, though, but we seem to agree that Bacuna and Amavi should have been obvious choices in a wing-back system. Bruce does seem to have blind spots.
Iana, RHM is injured just now, and why he was not on the bench having signed his contract.
PP,
Many thanks for your first-hand account. Very useful.
PP: “If Bruce still has a job by next Saturday, Villa Park will be empty….!!!”
VP *will* be empty next Saturday … we’re at Newcastle that week-end! 🙂 🙂
Now that’s a match that will be interesting to see what’s what…
What I think is helping me to turn against Bruce is his view that Ipswich would be predictable, and that he (Bruce) is ready for what they have to offer.
Clearly he wasn’t!
Jl- I’m afraid Bruce likes a bit of rhetoric, RDM was convinced the team would resolve itself too. Forget Newcastle I think we will not beat Barnsley. Newcastle will see ultra conservative play and then it’s derby etc. we have good players on paper but as usual they look good and do well in a team that can pass to each other consistently. IMO we need a coach that installs that no matter the formation. The formation should help you exploit other teams weaknesses not reveal your own. It appears back to basics means 352 in Bruce lingo? It’s hard to imagine life under two managers could be so different for the players it is after all a simple game?
http://www.avfcforums.com/topic/10976-the-differences-in-houllier-and-oneills-methods/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-manager-gerard-houllier-3345373
“we didn’t deserve to lose” Steve Bruce,
I cannot say RDM deserved to lose so many of his games but he was clearly doing something wrong because it wasn’t a one off, three games in three losses, somethings wrong.
Mark
I still remember that 6-1 loss at Newcastle in 2010. MacDonald was the caretaker coach at the time. Hope Villa don’t lose 6-1 again.
Houllier was right, shame he got sick. DB was an expensive signing, but he did what was expected of him. I liked Gary McAllister as a coach. Some of Villa’s senior players were overweight and unfit. The fact the aging McAllister could out perform them in circuit training said it all.
I remember, that team managed a decent 9th place and capped off the season with some morale boosting wins against Liverpool and Arsenal. Some say those teams had nothing to play for, but Bent scored some fine goals. Then he got the Villa sickness. Villa need to stop employing former Blues’ managers.
John,
I think you’re right, Xia will give Brucie a few more games, but there is a limit to his patience. He can’t allow Villa to lose every week indefinitely.
I would rather we kept Bruce and sourced the right manager not the other way around.
Dr Xia still talking patience
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tony-xias-aston-villa-admission-12593182
worth watching RMC’s goal for forest when he came on, 4 passes from keeper to RMC and put in perfectly, it didn’t happen under us and it still isn’t for hogan and Kodjia
https://youtu.be/q-OPTd0lOl0
Mark,
I keep saying that patience has to be had – and it’s still true. If the link up to Hank/Codger had worked yesterday then problem mostly over, but that it didn’t after two games with that team does not prove it can’t.
To me it’s simples … that a good win over Barnsley and I think things will work out fine. But if that doesn’t happen and with the Geordies coming up then it’s likely to go down the plughole for Bruce very quickly at that point.
I have to admit it’s not looking good for Bruce … but Tuesday could (emphasise could) be his redemption day.
Football Insider seeks to convince the anti-Bruce brigade that all is not lost, with three reasons why the current Villa chief is the best man for the job.
Promotion pedigree
One of the main reasons why Aston Villa turned to Bruce in the first-place was his promotion pedigree.
The 56-year-old has proven consistent at taking sides from the Championship to the Premier League during his managerial career, and the Villa fans must grant him the time to work his magic with their beloved club.
It is fair to say that there has been little improvement in the club’s league position since Bruce replaced Roberto Di Matteo as manager, but he has only had since October to get things right.
Bruce twice took Birmingham to the Premier League during a near six-year long tenure, and more recently took Hull to the top-flight – again on two occasions.
He has also had success with keeping sides in the top-flight, ensuring Wigan’s survival during the 2007-08 season.
His proven track record lends nicely to Aston Villa’s current predicament, and now that he has had an opportunity to put his own stamp on the squad, he must be given the necessary time to fulfil his duties.
Chopping-and-changing will get the club nowhere, and whether it is next season instead of this term, Bruce will maintain his record. He was, and remains, a solid and dependable appointment.
Bruce not just to blame
Bruce is the one that has come under fire in recent weeks, but the players must also take their fair share of the blame.
They are the ones that have failed to perform on the pitch, and Bruce’s influence can only go so far. He inherited a bog-standard squad from Di Matteo and his predecessor Remi Garde, and only now has he been able to make his desired changes.
While last month’s transfer window splurge has yet to pay dividends in the club’s results and form, Bruce’s new-look squad will in time make the desired impact. On paper, he still has one of the best squads in the division, and we will see that in the coming months – provided that the players put the effort in.
Whether it be taking their chances in front of goal, or cutting out the costly – and avoidable – defensive errors, the players have a big role to play in turning their form around; so it’s not just a question of Bruce’s so-called ‘inability’ to lead the team.
Personality
He admitted himself after the Ipswich defeat that it was time to ‘batten down the hatches and face the flak‘, but Bruce will no doubt come out of their poor form relatively unscathed.
There have been times this season where he has had his patience tested, most recently with the Ross McCormack ‘gate-gate’ saga, but Bruce remains an approachable and friendly manager.
In many of their previous managers, Aston Villa have had not had such qualities at their disposal, and it ultimately ended in them failing to control the dressing room.
Tim Sherwood, for example, came across as fairly arrogant, and remember how things turned out for him. Bruce will need to re-connect with many of the fans after their recent poor form, but he has the personality to do so.
He has the modesty to accept when things aren’t going right for his team, and with the continued backing of the club board, is the best possible long-term solution for Aston Villa.
http://www.footballinsider247.com/three-reasons-senior-man-still-perfect-choice-aston-villa/
JL- I would say a forward 2 of RMC and Hogan would work better than the one with Kodjia and I like Kodjia.
JL- well the fact the writer thinks Bruce inherited anything from Remi Garde blows his cred right out the water 😉
I mean in one instance he has inherited a bog standard squad next he has one of the best squads in the division and has lost 3 games to teams below us, thats some going 😉
I have been listening to 5 live today and other comments from managers and players, which have led me to affirm my belief that the problems are NOT the players, but very firmly Bruce’s.
The conversations have been about the introductions of new players to a team, and how they should be bedded in.
A fine example is today’s game with Burnley, where Sean Dyche has gradually introduced his new recruits into his ESTABLISHED system. Barton came in first, then Westwood towards the end of the last game, and Brady today, instead of trying to lump everybody in, in one fell swoop.
Doing this puts pressure on new players, who are trying to get used to a new club, the affect of being transferred, their new price tag, etc, etc. Being part of a winning team is great, but making a debut and playing in a losing side can soon demoralise a player, and they start to wonder…Have I made the right move..??
Great to gave just seen two master tacticians outplay each other in Dyche and Conte, and although they come out with honours even, you feel that Dyche must come out ontop with a fantastic result. Good to see Westwood and Barton outstanding in mid field, and the link-ups with Lowton, who also played well. Michael Keane man of the match, and Robbie Brady scoring a great free kick.
Bruce may well keep his job, but ANY manager should be able to produce a winning team with the players available…
Mark,
Whether a Hank/Ross combination would have been the real deal pales under scrutiny when we recall that Ross seems to have not toed the line on training – and not just the Gate-Gate affair.
As Rinder said back in 1937: “Players, no matter how big they were in the football world, had to observe [the] discipline.”
PP,
But we keep on forgetting that Bruce has only been here since October. Dyche has been where he is for 1,000 years! 😉
Though you’re right on the principle, Paul, Bruce has had a tough situation to deal with since he’s been here. Now I don’t think he’s the greatest since sliced bread, so please don’t get me wrong, but I think we need to evaluate him on the realities and not force him into a suit that does not fit with other examples.
Bruce out. I gave him enough time. He is crepe. No idea whether he is coming or going.
Dont waste time, get rowett or smith in.
JL- begs the question why he missed training and had voiced an opinion that he was surplus under Bruce, no prior rumblings under RDM.
JL- You might also want to remember 2 of Bruce’s promotions were with the teams he had taken down therefore knew his style, just has Dyche has. There may be quit a few more players leaving in the summer.
Do you not think RDM had the harder situation of the two ? IMO he did, Bruce has had time to asses players in real matches RDM little more than a month while buying players, then 5 games with half his players too.
Anybody else thinking that Jedinaks absence and his groin strain in previous games have derailed Bruces early form? not just down to Kodjias absence for me.
Mark: “begs the question why he missed training “
No excuse. He effectively broke his contract.
Sorry, I’m not ready to denounce Bruce on your second post. The fact of the matter is that Bruce has only been here 4 months and he’s trying to get it together, though some of his moves can be questioned, I agree.
I’m just waiting to see what happens on Tuesday. No sound win then and there’s almost certainly going to be trouble amongst the fans, no argument. Until then, I’m keeping my powder dry! 😉
only 4 months? I think RDM would love to have 4 months with his team 😉
Mark
RDM – woof -down boy!
IanG 🙂 Ironic don’t you think that people are calling for another season and a half of potential tripe yet RDM got the shortest time of any Villa manager, Can’t say I wanted him to stay I didn’t but I don’t want to be here next Feb watching paint dry either. Worked out Jedinak played five times for RDM out of 11 league games and Bruce hasn’t won a game without him so far. still I’ll go back to gnawing my bone what do I know 😉
And on the Extended Highlights have got remarkably shorter under Bruce on AVFC 😉
Hey, does anyone on here have the empathy and human relationship skills to break it to Mark that RDM has gone and is never coming back
:-/ awkward
JL,
I will accept that someone has to be positive about Bruce, but I look at Paul Clements, a virtual unknown in management, who has changed Swansea in a very short time, and now has 4 wins out of 6. When they asked the players why the difference, the repy was that he had changed a FEW things, but mainly the level of training had changed drastically, and they are now ALL much fitter, and fighting much better….. No huge changes, no mass recruitment, just making an existing squad better….In other words, better management…Something Villa have not had in years. Look at the fitness and ground covered by Burnley players today…I doubt Villa players covered half the distance yesterday…!!
Know where you are coming from Robbo,
but many Villa fans have still not got over Oneill walking out yet………
I am feeling reading the DR’s latest tweet about not being very good at selecting managers, but very good at supporting them, that so far he has made two bad choices, and the next one will be done with advice, and much better care..!!!
Mark, you’re right that we were unlucky under RdM (as we have been in the last two games too as it happens. )
We were playing more exciting football under RDM than we are now.
But. He was totally inept when it came to substitutions, he’d lost his spirit and there was no coming back for him. He HAD to go.
That’s not an endorsement of Bruce, just an observation that something had to change. The man seemed broken and didn’t show any sign of wanting to fight back
Paul, when did Dr X make that tweet. I can’t find it
Paul, I saw that Swansea interview too and felt ‘exactly’ the same.
I was really impressed by the energy of Ipswich’s front 2 yesterday. They just never stopped running, and although we were the better side and should have won, those two deserved real credit and showed much more spirit than most Villa players.
r0bb0,
I think that’s Paul’s interpretation of what the Doc has said, to be honest.
Guys,
I think there’s a factor here that we’ve overlooked … that the opposition try harder when they’re facing us. They probably would try harder against Newcastle as well, but since their manager has been in situ for 12 months he’s got it better organised and is better prepared.
For us it’s an uphill task following the way Lerner left us. That’s *not* me trying to excuse Bruce, but just another side of the coin to consider.
This attitude by the opposition in the lower divisions has always been the case I think. Every time they play us it’s like them playing a cup final.
Paul: “Look at the fitness and ground covered by Burnley players today”
But simple hard work isn’t what football is supposed to be about. That’s more a symptom of what lesser-resourced clubs have to resort to in order to survive.
Give ’em credit, of course, but I’d hate it if that were to be the basis of play at VP.
Mind you, we’re waiting for an alternative at VP!
I don’t disagree therefore we need a manager that can instil the will to win not fold, I see no fight in us.
Robbo- I know RDM was dead duck, the fans made sure of that and Xia reacted, no problem from me just have a problem with the treatment vs Bruce who has had many games more and new players and got worse. What stands out to me is Bruce has a similar demeanour now, one of what do I have to do, God has noticed too, where’s the passion??
Paul McGrath
✔
@Paulmcgrath5
@AVFCTransTweet Steve Bruce is a great manager but has to see what’s obvious to us fans . Work like it means something! UTV.
6:06 PM – 12 Feb 2017
JL- teams are working harder than ever to close the opposition down further up the pitch, talent is no longer the deciding factor, team work and hard work are needed in the modern game. Watch Huddersfield if you get the chance, its an eye opener.
yes there’s no room for skillful players anymore, just run around fast a lot.
For the top teams it can be breathtaking, but for the rest it’s beginning to bore me.
The state of the officials propagates the lower league myth of ‘manning up’ to a degree which contradicts the laws of the game in terms of physicality.
I’m convinced some of the refs are actively implicit in this.
Might as well watch a pub team.
Oh yeah, I forgot…
Mark, I think Bruce is made of slightly sterner stuff but I must admit he does seem to be starting to show some signs of stress now. . . not surprising though!
JL, but I’ve been through Xia’s tweets and can’t find anything that could be ‘interpreted’ the way Paul has suggested.
I think I may be looking in the wrong place?
Bruce has never done more than manage teams of boring cloggers. Even if he gets us promoted at some point, we wouldn’t survive under him.
It was a bad appointment made in a panic scenario
Football is an entertainment product and there are so many better things to do with time and money than watch the cr@p dished up at B6
Wow
“The new lads came in and it was probably the wrong time in terms of results but we have got to stay with it. It’s tough at the minute and hopefully we have fallen as far as we can because the next few games are going to be important.
“It is time to batten down the hatches and face the flak. But we need to take some of the chances we are creating.
“Five or six players in a different system might be too much, and I will look at it. Perhaps it is too quick to change. With the players I’ve got, I thought we would be suited to the change, but we found it difficult against Ipswich.”
Paul
Entertainment where did you hear that one dimensional whopper?
It’s a lot more than that to many of us.
If that’s all is is then we’re all having ourselves in the net, as it were.
Frustration does funny things, but entertainment?
10k empty seats in the ground every week for the second city’s biggest team. There’s quite a few people who have agreed with me for a long while
JL,
You obviously have not seen the match yesterday between Burnley and Chelsea, or you would not make such remarks. Burnley did give a workmanlike display in the first half, but as the match progressed they provided entertaining football, and in the end, either side could have won the match, but it ended in a draw, but was certainly never boring, with plenty of end to end play.
MOTD also pointed out that it was a game with probably the two best mangers in the Premier league.
The tweet was an error that I had misread from the Birmingham Mail, about Dr Tony, and was from a fan called Donny, which I have just seen again in the caption.
Interesting seeing a report on the 26yr old keeper Kalinic, who would have been our only January signing last January, but was blocked by the (corrupt) FA.
He was going to be a £4.9 million signing from Hajduk Spit, and has ended up being the most expensive player in the history of Gent, and is tipped to become Croatia’s no1 keeper for years to come….What a difference he may have made to Remi’s plans for Villa.
I also noted that Bruce even said that he was putting on his boots too….Is that a risk too far for a man of his age and fitness????
PW,
If I want to see entertainment, then I go to the theatre…..I go to Villa Park to bond with others, have a few beers, and watch the rocky horror show….!!!
PP
Absolutement as Garde would say!
Bearing in mind that we are in the ‘second division’ and the football is perceived by many to be awful it’s surprising how high our attendances still are:
Second highest in the division and averaging between 5 and 10,000 higher than the previous times we’ve slipped down to the second tier.
The real indictment is that there have only been 15 years in the past 50 when our average attendances have been above 35,000 and just the one where we’ve been above 40,000.
The fans are showing remarkable loyalty and let’s hope that before the end of the season, the manager and players start to give them something to justify their faith.
I thought this report was interesting and showed why consecutive Villa managers persisted with Westwood and why we were able to make such a large profit on selling him.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10765994/burnley-1-1-chelsea-clarets-provide-a-lesson-in-how-to-stop-the-blues
He isn’t the most creative of players, but he is industrious, stifles opponents attacks, makes himself available and moves the ball on quickly.
Sean Dyche is an excellent manager, recognised this and is now using him well.
Villa fans of course are far smarter than Sean Dyche and were clever enough to get on Westwood’s back until he was forced out of the club.
We all tend to believe comments that reinforce our own prejudices and it became a well kniwn’fact’ that Westwood only passed sideways or backwards. This ‘fact’ led him to be nicknamed the crab by some, despite the fact that stats showed that 80% of his passes were forward.
I see some fans (not so much on this site) are already criticising the quality of some of the newcomers. Let’s give them all a chance before rushing to judgement eh?
robbo
westwood had 150 games to prove himself shite ,1 game at burnley hardly going to change that
PP: “You obviously have not seen the match yesterday between Burnley and Chelsea, or you would not make such remarks.”
Did I say something that was that wide of the mark?
You’re right, I didn’t see the whole of the match, but I saw the highlights on the Beeb last night and I saw the stats … Burnley had 21% possession, which means that they had an awful lot of work to do and which they clearly did well. Not knocking that.
But Burnley have not had great players since the 1970s and are one of those clubs that do get by because they have a good manager that’s been sitting in that seat for a long time and knows what’s required, based on hard commitment and “the Westood way”. Their football isn’t bad but how sutainable are they for the Premier League?
r0bb0: “The real indictment is that there have only been 15 years in the past 50 when our average attendances have been above 35,000 and just the one where we’ve been above 40,000.”
Did you know that the first season Villa averaged 40,000 was in 1935-36, the season Villa were first relegated!
That in 1981-82 (as league champions) our attendances were not too good.
I think the current attendances are bearing up well, especially compared to the one-season Division 2 year of 1959-60 when our average was about 33,000 and when we saw scores like 11-1 and 5-0 and 4-4. The days of Hitchens and Supermac.
Yeah id say our attendances are decent considering the pain and crap football over the years!
That gk kalinic was trending on twitter last night…horrendous mistake made. Took a kick and missed the ball!
Was all behind bruce just for a quick fix to get back up. cant do that so get rid and build.
Off the pitch talk of progressing and moving the club into a modern way…even the set up with rounds job and involvement points to that.
But its all at odds to hiring an old school manager.
Whilst we are shit lets re build properly…rounds job should be finding the new klopp, wagner, pochetino, koeman.
What did that chap say whos job was to find a new owner…never waste a good crisis.
Didn’t see the highlights, didn’t read up about the game after seeing the result, too annoyed to be honest, only read through the above to gauge opinion of the match. I’ve come to one opinion and I’m retracting any idea that the virtue of patience should be placed in Bruce’s hands. And that opinion is… Bruce out!
And it’s for these reasons, as opposed to some glib statement but while I can see fickleness in my opinion, the change is due to finding out more through what Bruce is saying and doing/not doing.
1. His pre-match assessment of Ipswich and the subsequent inability to combat them, regardless whether Ipswich are one dimensional, if his approach is to dismiss the opposition then he set up his team to be too confident when he should be setting them up to face a tough task and earn the right to win.
2. His post game assessment, if after a few games, he determines that introducing and entirely brand new midfield and forward was going to be the quick fix he was looking for, then it shows a) lack of confidence in the team that had served him well up to January and b) a complete lack of understanding that such impactful change would not take an age to settle.
3. With such changes in first 11, the formation was still being tinkered with yet, if we believe the club got everyone of Bruce’s targets then why was he not buying players to put into a pre-defined system.
4. The problem that is Kodija, said it before Kodija needs to play behind Hogan in order for Kodija to see what is better placed in front of him as opposed to his shoot on sight policy, only Bruce can address this and so far hasn’t but still early on this point.
5. For all the ability our midfield has in going forward, there is no ball winning, pace dictating midfield general, he may have addressed the gap between midfield and forwards but it’s still an imbalanced team. For us as Villa fans, to place so much on Jedinak as the saviour of our team scares me because while he is a ball winner, I don’t see him as an imposing midfielder.
6. For all the talk of loving 4-4-2 and then experimenting with 3-5-2, it’s all out of fear, including Elphick is an admission he doesn’t trust the Chester/Baker partnership or the midfield to protect the defence, it’s disruptive in terms of player positioning. That fear is translated onto the pitch and also a sign for me that he doesn’t have the answers.
For all the above, it adds up to a manager for me who despite having his own players now, doesn’t have the tactical awareness or managerial ability to find the solutions to Villa’s problems.
I disagree that teams raise their game when playing us as a major factor. Our problem is the players and evident in their comments that they’ve made it and joined a big club is the issue. They’ve all ‘arrived’ but none are putting the shift in to earn the shirt. It’s this psychological issue that now impacts the team, it’s also coming from the manager per point 1, unless the in-game performance, i.e. fighting for every ball and earning the right to win changes then we’ll be in repeat mode until the end of the season and the transfer window will address player gaps but not the real issue. Performances to date suggest to me Bruce doesn’t deserve another window.
If he doesn’t deserve another transfer window then what is the point of persisting with him. Clearly if sacked it would be a slur on the club’s mgmt as they’ve selected incorrectly again but what is there to gain by persisting with Bruce. So let’s say we do stick with him and he’s get us promoted, is this season forgotten once we are back at the top table and will it hide the fact that without genuine tactics we will be found wanting in the prem. Winning is everything but winning well is more important to me and if we can’t even win ugly then what’s the point.
Just to expand on the psychological idea. If the players approach is that they’ve made it by being Villa players and if the manager’s approach is to dismiss teams before playing them, then for me this accounts for the inability to play for 90 minutes.
With all the effort going in to find the opening goal, if it doesn’t work then the seeds of doubt are sewn and the players don’t understand how all that effort has failed to overrun the opposition, the opposition becoming more accustomed to Villa’s methods throughout the game, find that it isn’t hurting them and they grow into the game enough to see that their attacks cause problems and worse still panic and they have the confidence to go for the jugular.
We even see that in our wins, which tend to be by solitary goal that they are scraped wins as opposed to confident 2/3 nil wins. We are being set up as winners without having earned the right just because it’s Villa. Paul McGrath touched on it in his tweets about in-game performance, we do enough at the start, fall back and are found wanting, but Bruce doesn’t have the answers because this is psychological as opposed to a skill issue, where he can haul a player off for being poor
Darren agree with apparently getting our top targets but bruce having no idea what to do with them!
Look at clemence and silva at hull…have to work with what they got. Lets get a proper technical hands on coach in.
Pochitino at spurs goes through each 1st team member 1 one on one. Individual coaching every day. Constantly sending texts to kane telling him to watch so and so or do this and that.
lets get up with the times!
mind you silva and clemence show how poor gardei was.
DOR,
your comments are absolutely spot on and sum up all the relevant problems, and this is born out from the general feelings amongst fans who are capable of seeing the wider picture.
The desire to win and fight is also shown in the fact that on Saturday not one Villa player received a yellow card, and no real attempt was made to put their stamp on the game, until it was too late.
They did pay some pleasant syuff during the early part of the first half, but as the game wore on, the effort reduced, and they were happy to just trundle along.
andrew
one of garde biggest critic more out off frustration than any thing else, but he would been perfect last summer telling flabby and co where to go
one week in he got a nil all draw with city and was doing ok to lerner fox stitched him up big time
bruce out clemence out calderwood out
dor
as usual putting points perfect
Darren,
Yes, I can see why you’ve made a switch in belief, and I’m in total sympathy with your points list (1-5). I am similarly inclined but fI’m trying to hang onto the concept of keeping it all together (despite Bruce’s foibles) as I’m not at all confident we’d get another manager who can do the job.
We’ve had far too many changes – management and team wise – this last two years. You’d want the club to become a laughing stock (more so than at present?
But … if over the next 7 days we see no reason for hope, then it will be difficult to avoid committing going down the same route of thinking as you. If the worse happens these next 7 days then I don’t know how we’d come back under Bruce.
On two points you raise…
1. The issue of playing Elphick and not trusting Chester and Baker. Well, Bruce was a c-b at that, and an awesome competitor in that slot, so maybe he can see something I can’t. But that formation he’s played (with Elphick) is partly to my thinking to get over the absence of Jedinak, who seems to be vital to our chances of winning.
2. On the business of other teams not raising their game … well I think that they do … and sometimes it’s been openly said they do. It’s been the case every time we’ve been in the lower divisions. I’d ask Steamer to confirm that , but … (sigh) However, we can’t submit to that situation – we have to find an answer to it. It’s just that I think that with all the chopping and changing it’s a factor we’ve not been able to deal with properly so far.
A few very good views from fans on Vital Villa about the failings of Bruce:
People saying that Bruce should be sacked are entitled to their opinion, but for me it’s not the solution. For the commenter who said we should have got Wagner – why would he have wanted to join us at this moment in time?! We’ve consistently changed managers since MON left and it’s done nothing. There is more of a deep rooted problem here. In regards to Bruce, there are some concerns – 1) I will question why he did not purchase another CB if he wanted to play 3 at the back. Elphick got caught ball watching for Forest’s winner and made the initial mistake for Ipswich’s goal. 2) Blaming the Ipswich goal on an individual mistake is wrong. Elphick slipping allowed the attack to initiate. Chester and Baker did what they had to in terms of going to the ball, but it left a huge gap in the middle. Our CM didn’t have the legs to track Huws, and Green’s effort in getting back to cover the middle, which is the job of the LWB when CB’s drift out to the right side, wasn’t good enough. It may have been that he doesn’t fully understand the positioning required to play there, but that was on Bruce for putting him in that position. I coach kids full time and was able to see that. If he can’t see that (and I hope he can after reviewing the footage) then he shouldn’t be a first team manager. 3) I think at this point in time, he has to pander to the fans a bit more at home, which means 4-4-2, wingers looking to get outside and put crosses in and more direct attacking play (not long ball, not tippy tappy, but fast and aggressive). This is how historically we’ve had our best success and this, right now, will at the least keep fans entertained as we can say goodbye to any hopes of the playoffs.
Francobaresi13
Gordonsleftboot – if fans were saying that about Green then it wouldn’t surprise me if that is the same 3 guys who sat behind me during my season ticket years who spent 90 mins slaing Dion Dublin upon returning to the team after nearly never being able to walk again, or those that were complaining about MON for finishing in the top 6 every season. Sadly, the highlight of their life is probably spending 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon moaning, and unless someone puts them on the spot and asks why they wouldn’t rather spend their time doing something that makes them happy, they’ll be mainstays.
Francobaresi13
The answer to a winning team is so obvious. If there is a winger in the squad ( Adomah ) don’t start with him sitting on the bench. This position is the main supply to the strikers. Leicesters Success last year was based on a winger Villa rejected ( Mark Albrighton ) Get Adomah on the pitch Bruce and watch your strikers start scoring.
HonestDave
I agree wholeheartedly with honest Dave. I posted last week that ADOMAH has to play, in my opinion he is better than Ashley Young and on a par with Tony Morley (Yes I am also a Villa Fan of nearly 50 years) We HAVE to go 442, it is so simple. Get the ball out to Adomah (I dont even mind if Hutton plays behind him as he seemed to have struck up a good understanding with Adomah) and get him to take the full back on. If he loses it, try again. He is so skilful, his work rate is fabulous he will come provide our stickers with chances during the game. The game is simple get the ball out to the wingers and his job is to provide chances for the strikers (Just like Morley did for Withe and Shaw) the midfield have to harass and get to win the ball quicker (we stand off the opposition far too often and let opponents play around us. That is just ridiculous) Expectations of promotion this season were never really realistic. Pointless changing the manger again Bruce is proven, we do however seem to have gone backwards since our new coaching staff came in end of Nov start of December. I wear my heart on my sleeve and have taken so much stick this weekend from other fans….even Cardiff have gone above us now. It’s not about gelling together as a team (Newcastle gelled quickly as have others, it’s just an excuse) it’s about ALL players working hard to win the ball when we don’t have it and been quicker and proactive when we have it.
AstonVilla1965
Read more: http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7522455#ixzz4YZIM3pHj
JL,
I cannot agree that teams raise their game against Villa, as every game that I have watched where Villa have started in the ascendancy, the oppostion has held on by the skin of their teeth, as in particular, the last Preston game, but then Villa lower the impetus, the oppostion grow stronger, and the end up seeing that they can win the game…!!
I’m struggling with the catch 22 of allowing a manager to build and to stop the merry go-round in comparison with the football I’ve watched under Bruce including the games we’ve won.
I can understand both points of view but rather than sit on the fence for myself I felt I had to choose and in that choice, I understand that if I was pulling the trigger on Bruce that the club would look bad but I’d pull it knowing that there was a tactician lined up with the remit of bringing a formation and a style of play (two separate things), assessing the squad over the remaining months to establish what was required for the system and giving them the opportunity to fail in the short term without the need for reprisal, i.e. not worried about promotion.
In Bruce, I see a manager devoid of ideas as evidenced by his formation and his substitutions and a manager clearly unable to establish a work ethic that earns us the right to wins games as opposed to this approach sure the team we are playing are one dimensional, it will be easy.
For the most part, I’m happy with the squad we have and having Round and team controlling that, I just don’t see Round’s efforts translated onto the pitch and that is down to Bruce.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked
will it be deja vu for us?
PP: “I cannot agree that teams raise their game against Villa..”
Well, historically it has happened time and time again … from 1936 to date.
I’m not saying that *every* team changes their level of play, but I’m pretty sure that if you were to see most of our opponents the next week then you’ll probably see a lesser performance. Take Notts Forest for example! 😉
Darren,
I’m afraid we can talk about who we’d like (and his qualities) at VP until we’re blue in the face, but how sure we’d get what you desire? The past 2 years (in particular) have not indicated our ability to get a suitable manager (Garde possible excepted, but he’s also gone).
Nope … I get the feeling we’ll have to ride with Bruce … for now at least. I think someone (was it Archie?) said that under the circumstances Bruce out to be given until early next season, but if nowt is going properly only then replace him. I think that’s right. Another change now is just not practicable.
The fact is that Bruce has a good record of obtaining promotion and he might still do it.
its a very good debate, most seem very split on whether we sack or keep.
DOR,
A very good article which I have passed on to the good Dr Tony. Perhaps he may read it..!! Hopefully he will, as most tweets he does see.
JL,
We shall just have to agree to differ. Forest did not raise their game until they changed their formation, and Villa failed to respond, which then gave them the confidence to up their game and win it…..which is what everyone has done in recent times….The point I was making….The opposition only get better when Villa FAIL to respond …!!
I don’t doubt that we’ll change from Bruce, Dr.T has yet to transition that power to me but I did need to stay my view that the quality or lack of on the footballing side in my opinion won’t change in the intervening months and as such if I had the power, I’d make us a laughing stock albeit briefly because I’d have lined up a tactician as a manager and come out with a definitive statement that would allow the new manager to fail so there is no pressure to win immediately such is the perfect world that would be my Villa stewardship.
sorry above should read ‘I don’t doubt that we’ll stick with Bruce’
I think it was Archie who said that he would like to see Bruce go now, but practically can see him staying until the beginning of next season , then being replaced if nothing has changed, & I agree with this.
Although events may take over yet if it gets much worse.
He should never have been appointed as far as many of us are concerned, but as he was we are kind of stuck with him until he completely screws up.
The big problem is having someone to replace him that is not an emergency appointment in the middle of the season, which would not help so much.
As has been said, we need a good coaching set up more than anything, & so far, in Bruce there is little evidence that the leopard has changed his stripes.
I also think we should be setting our sights a lot higher than Smith & Rowlett.
I think the club should be now spending time preparing for a much improved appointment for next season [which they may very well be doing].
Thankfully the player turnover is not just up to Bruce, so his long term damage is limited.
Pi*s poor & embarrassing at the moment though.
spot, not stripes
PP: “The opposition only get better when Villa FAIL to respond …!!”
Firstly you say we have to agree to differ, and then you come out with this! 😉
I think you’re looking too much at minutia, Paul … The fact is it’s acknowledged that because Villa is a big stadium and because of its history, teams love to go to VP and *most* often do put in an extra stint. Fred Rinder said it 80 years ago and the comment has been made time and time again since. It was said by someone at VP this season.
IanG,
Yes, that was Archie’s comment, and, like you, see it as the only practicable line to take.
JL,
The Forest game which you referred to was not at VP, or the games against Wolves, Cardiff, and Brentford in this disasterous run. They have all also beaten other teams…..Perhaps they raised their games especially to win those too!!!
The only team incapable of raising its game is Villa, especially under Bruce. He is now in the same state as Sherwood, and hasn’t got a clue. Howver, if Sherwood had been bought a team, I am sure even he could have done better..!!
PP,
Look … I write *some* things with a slight tongue in cheek … like the bit about Forest.
If I comment on ‘big picture’ issues then you can take me to task!
JL,
You have my sympathy…..I have to build up now to be fully positive by tomorrow afternoon, so that I can have the courage to drive the 80miles to see my Claret & Blue team triumph in the great arena of Villa Park..!!
Do We Have 11 Players, Or Do We Have A Team?
11 players JL for sure
The team isn’t functioning well as a unit under Bruce , It has already been pointed out that brucey is not a tactician and while that wasn’t important a few years back i see us having decent first half’s under Bruce only for it to unravel in the 2nd with the opposing manager to do a tactical tweak and get the better of us with Bruce having no response
I expect a loss tomorrow despite the obvious quality of players we now have
I really can’t see Bruce making it too the end of the season and when he does go i would like to think our backroom will take the opportunity to finally get a manager with the skill set to finally take the footballing side of things forward
missing steamer being here he would have summed things up in his unique way
UTV
This plus Ayew is exactly why RMC was a failure at Villa and will continue to be if we don’t decide we can pass to each other.
BBC pundit Garry Thompson has stated that Aston Villa January signing Scott Hogan will start getting the “hump” if the “greedy” Jonathan Kodjia doesn’t start passing him the ball.
Villa purchased striker Hogan from Championship rivals Brentford on Deadline Day and the former Bees man has played two games for his new side.
During those matches against Nottingham Fores and Ipswich, he has failed to get on the score sheet as Steve Bruce’s side have failed to pick up a single point.
The Midlands club lost their last encounter 1-0 at home against Mick McCarthy’s men and Kodjia wasted a number of good opportunities when playing alongside Hogan.
Former Villa striker Thompson believes Hogan will stop making runs if his teammates, in particular, Kodjia, don’t start providing him the deserved service.
“I think Kodjia has been greedy,” Thompson told BBC Radio West Midlands. “Over the past six months, he has been used to pulling us out of the fire, nicking a goal, he now has to learn and learn quickly to play with Hogan.
“Hogan as soon as he came, he’ll run behind people, he will cause you problems, he’ll stretch the player, but he will also need someone to give him the ball from time to time. If people keep turning away from him as a centre-forward, he will get the hump with it.
“How much fight he has got, how much willingness he has got, if he feels, they are not giving me the ball – he will stop making runs. Him and Kodjia need to get a relationship going. ”
I am surprised GG has not had a run in Jedinaks place as he did for Forest at DM, failing that play Chester or Elphick there, no need for this 3 at the back with a team that has struggled in every formation so far bar 433
PP,
Then it’s you that needs the sympathy, isn’t it? 😉
Good luck, Paul … I really do hope you’ll come away from VP with a smile on your face. Supporters like you deserve it.
Hi MK
i have seen a heck of a lot of bad press for Kodjia since Hogan came in and no doubt he is guilty of trying to do what he has done since he came to Villa
I am going to defend every current Aston villa player
Reason being it is down to the manager and his assistants to instruct the players correctly and get the best out of them
Westwood and Lescott are a good example of this – not the greatest players – at Villa at least but with the right guidance and instruction with everyone having a clear understanding of there role in a team and a manager that recognizes a players strengths and weaknesses they can move mountains
We have something called Villa managers destroy’s players syndrome running through the club and we won’t see the best of any Villa player until we get rid of it.
Hello Runtings mate- I love Kodjia, I think he has everything to make a top player except peripheral vision when near Goal, That should be drilled into him or another good player like Hogan will suffer IMO Paul Mcgrath pointed it out to Kodjia on Twitter too. Feel pretty helpless at the moment as without decent coaching we could be watching this for months 🙁
I will be keeping an eye on RMC at Forest
MK i think Ross will do great at forest – well drilled side
Runtings agreed got fed up of seeing the disappointment on his face when he played for us, it would make a saint swear 🙂
Fellers,
Why are we trying to make a case for RMC?
If the guy can’t keep to the terms of his contract then he should forego his wages. Clearly he didn’t do that.
It’s also not correct to infer that it was Bruce that didn’t try with Westwood. It would seem to me that Bruce simply decided – after trying with him – that Westwood did not have the style of play he wanted. I think Bruce has bought better players.
Where I do agree with you is that Bruce now has got to get a team functioning from those he’s now got – that obviously is his job. Despite the indicators so far, he still deserves at least another week … and he’s probably not going to be sacked anyway – this season.
JL- its quite well known Bruce likes tall mid-fielders, Westwood was sacrificed to buy players I would say because he was ideal in the match against PNE at getting the ball to Lansbury so he could be effective further up the pitch. I think with Jedinaks return we will look more solid but whether he will provide the same Impetus that Westwood could have and did when we have Delph etc remains to be seen. GG played at DM with lansbury at forest.
JL-RMC? because nobody score 60 odd goals while being a knob head and he is still a villa player, if you read the Sunderland article put up you will have read of Bruces habit of falling out with players some quite good ones 😉
Well I feel much better reading this at least Bruce knows what the problem is LOL 🙂
Aston Villa boss Steve Bruce spoke to the media in the wake of his side’s disappointing 1-0 home defeat to Ipswich Town on Saturday, and suggested that their lack of goals is their Achilles heel
“We’ve got to improve in what we do with the ball. But the big problem is we don’t score enough. That is our big Achilles heel. We’re not scoring and we’re getting punished at the other end.”
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/its-okay-back-aston-villa-12599852
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/02/13/steve-bruce-scrapping-aston-villa-plans-suggests-panic-but-bi/
mark k
funny the few sites backing bruce are the ones invited to open days and question time
some talk about bruce as if he is new fergie ,more like rest utd flop managers,keane phelan neville
since start of december when bruce luck ran out we have stumbled from one shambles to another with the only thing staying the same bruce neck blaming player after player for loses ,never once himself
now his players in we are further away from settled side than ever,no system steady formation,
playing wingbacks hutton and taylor one hopeless other worse, 3 centre halves yet not one of them comfortable in passing the ball plus no centre half on bench, puts green a young lad on to chase a goal a sub later green playing left back,a keeper who couldn t catch the cold every shot a goal,playing birr who didnt play for 6 weeks yet ross played 1 saturday yet was deemed not fit enough following saturday,its a steady catologue of errors
please tomorrow night line up something like this
bunn/sarkic johnson had enough chances
bacuna if bree not fit the kitchen sink would be more use than hutton
chester
baker
amavi
adoamh
gg everyone else had a chance gg may go again
lansbuy
houirane
hogan
kodja and if he doesn t start passing ball sub him
JG,
Good comments, and right about the fans that are saying we should stick with Bruce.
My team for tomorrow would be:
Sarkic, Bacuna Chester Baker Amavi, Hourihane Lansbury Gardner, Adomah Hogan Kodjia,
Bench Bunn, Hutton, Elphick, Bjarnason, Grealish, Green, Davies. Unfit: Bree, Gabby, Taylor.
Just know that the wrong team selection, and we will be on another loser…
JG
The kitchen sink would be interesting to watch.
I also don’t understand why he isn’t playing GG, but possibly he is insecure enough to favour his new signings regardless of the result.
I think rigid is the word.
Maybe there’s cracks appearing as he’s on the edge a bit.
Regardless of Bruce I hope it all clicks & codger takes his blinkers off & we wallop Barnsley.
Barnsely managers comments not just me then 😉
Heckingbottom added: “I saw Villa a lot earlier on in the season and they played well without getting the results.
“They had lots of draws that could have been wins.
“They spent a lot of money in January and reinvested in even more players.
“The results may not have come of late, but they’ve still got the calibre of player that can score out of nothing.
“No matter how we play they have matchwinners in the side who can score at any moment so it’ll be a tough game.”
Mark,
Villa have had their share of knob heads, & RMC seems a classic one.
Unfortunately he is still a villa player.
There’s no excuse to throw a moody & f**k up the club whatever he’s on.
Not having the grace to outlast Bruce’s tantrums which are a halfwitted reply to him playing up means he’s a liability as well, so good riddance!
I will refrain from judging him without evidence Ian and watch how many goals we could of had if we played to his strengths instead,I thought part of the managers job was to raise the moral and work out the players foibles and get the best out of very expensive employees, as far as I know he didn’t set fire to any waistbins or shit on Bruces desk.
Imagine Bruce in charge of Costa 🙂
This German manager is only 29 he gets it
“What they have, though, is fantastic togetherness (“we’re a super unit,” said Demirbay) – and a young man on the touchline who’s been able to supplement technical know-how with a well-developed sense of man-management. “Thirty per cent of coaching is tactics, 70% social competence,” he told Süddeutsche Zeitung in August, “every player is motivated by different things and needs to be addressed accordingly. At this level, the quality of the players at your disposal will ensure that you play well within a good tactical set-up – if the psychological condition is right.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/24/julian-nagelsmann-hoffenheim-prodigy-thomas-tuchel-rejected-bayern-munich
And this is why Bruce changing formation means very little if he does not understand the other dynamics in play. Sadly I can guarantee Bruce will never speak in the same terms,
“He considers formations largely irrelevant – “it’s a question of five or 10 metres whether it’s a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-2-1; you only see teams adhering to that at kick-off and perhaps eight times during the game” – but doesn’t let much on by way of specifics, beyond the revelation that his staff collect highly-specialised data, for example the time players spend in the deckungsschatten (literally: the shade of marking), unable to receive a ball because the opponents are blocking the passing lane.”
I would say that at Villa we play Blackjack really badly, chasing results by sacking managers. Instead of sticking with someone like Garde and realising where we are we have chased instant improvement, Now we have thrown the dice and Got Bruce and want stability!? Bruce was very much brought in to get results this season and it looked like he might at one point succeed but he hasn’t really addressed much at all or understood the position entirely. stick or twist? more like Stuck .
You can absolutely see that Round and Little and Wyness were under pressure to get a manager with a proven record of promotion as opposed to a tactician, hence Steve Bruce.
Even if Bruce turns it around and we get to mid-table obscurity, who would honestly think he’d become some footballing god and lead us to the promised land.
I’d despair if Bruce was talked of in the same breath as Taylor,Saunders, even Big Ron just because he got us promoted
Bruce out, Bruce out, Bruce out…!!!
No, that’s not me saying that – it’s what you lot seem to be saying in face of the fact that there’s been something like 40 ins and outs in six months.
Bruce himself says, “It’s nothing short of ridiculous. No club has had a turnover of people, managers, coaches, players, academy staff, directors of football, chairmen, etc. No club has.”
Now, there are a few “I told you so” people on this blog who are doing their best to dig up all Bruce’s old failings and why? Because there’s a basic dislike of him … dislikes are being put up in place of good reason. And when I refer to “good reason” I’m talking about the very fact that if he went we’d have another 20 “in and outs” … 60 in 12 months.
We need to get a grip of ourselves. Bruce is not likely to be going anywhere this season at least, so what all this diatribe against him is going to achieve I don’t know … unless they are just expressions of ego, which is a pointless avenue to take.
Sorry, guys, but that’s the reality. It’s better we keep our sanity and health by backing the team if you can’t back the manager, and leave everything else to sort itself out.
Mark: “if you read the Sunderland article put up you will have read of Bruces habit of falling out with players some quite good ones “
So what you’re saying is that player power is what must run football clubs?
Whether players are good is irrelevant. They have to observe discipline and if they can’t hen off they should go. No matter who they are. Maybe Bruce has got some good standards that other managers are frightened to apply?
ian g
bruce gave gg new 4 year contract so he should be like players bought in january one of spuds
john l
bruce complaining about high turnover of managers players at villa saying it doesnt happen elsewhere, well every club spud has managed it happened average 10/12 new players every summer he does with a couple in winter january and bar birmingham he last about 18 /24 months at clubs
Blimey any more excuses for the extremely poor job that Bruce is doing
mark my words it won’t end well for brucey
Hi JL
I think we are all quite aware of the reality that Bruce is our manager and we don’t have any authority to change that, but that shouldn’t prevent us from stating our opinions that there can be an alternative to the current status or even simply stating we dislike what Bruce is doing at the club.
Aren’t all opinions contrived from the self based on perceptions and realities, so there is always an element of ego, it’s just whether you think your opinion should dominate all others and not subject to any analysis.
When I wrote my reasons for Bruce out it was based on my thoughts, it doesn’t mean I’m correct and I’m certainly aware it won’t change things but surely the very fact you provide leaders on this site and presumably hope for reasoned debate on the back of that, then your comment ‘Bruce is not likely to be going anywhere this season at least, so what all this diatribe against him is going to achieve I don’t know’ doesn’t make sense.
Hmmm im wavering on stabilitiy.
Someone wrote ‘if you think we are a laughing stock now, wait to you see the reaction when we sack a proven manager who gets teams out this league’!
Id say even though bruce aint long term give him until next Christmas. If we aint in the top 3 or 4 then curtains.
JL- Bruce out? he should never have been in. And yes he should of took more notice of his charges if thats what it takes. and as for liking him? what does that have to do with him doing the Job he is employed to do? I don’t know him, but I have two eyes and they are not seeing much to write home about.
DOR- on the physiological side of things , when Bruce turned up he appeared to get players like GG fired up and working hard, although the football was poor he did get results.
A few things happened around the same time as the teams downturn, a new coach came in, Gabby became Bruces mission, and it appears Bruces relationship with RMC nosedived, Along with all that comments from Bruce on the loses about the players began.
maybe players lost faith in Him and some realising they were surplus just stopped trying, it seems a plausible reason to me for the results that followed and the general lack of bite about the team? they are not playing for each other or him.
*Psychological
On one hand we have to great a turnover of players on the other make more changes mid season, unbelievable Jeff 🙂
andrew
12 feb 2017 at 4.01 pm
bruce out your words
mark k
bruces excuses get better by the match, buy 8 players but they dont suit his system,codja is not a striker to play with a partner so play him as a wide left with adoamh on other side 433 going forward 442 defensive
IMO Bruce and Big Sam types are no longer relevant or as effective as they have been in the past in the modern game
If Bruce was brought in for a promotion push but ends up fighting relegation with perhaps the most expensive and talented squads in this league what the heck are we waiting for — he has already failed miserably in the objectives he was hired for and we are even more of a mess now than at the start of the season
as dor says its all about opinions and i can’t see any reason to hang on to Bruce – who cares if people laugh about us – nothing new there and they will laugh even more if we go down again
At Sunderland Bruce brought in 34 players bought and loans in 3 seasons with plenty leaving. this is from a Sunderland fan site when he arrived, And as for no money to spend before? £60m 1st season?
When he arrived he was praised for his transfer window experience and that he could add quality to the Sunderland team, but has he done that?
Transfers:
Lorik Cana- £5m- Dominating centre midfielder, struggled in the second half of the season. Pretty much demanded a move in the summer.
Fraizer Campbell- £3.5m- improved towards the end of the season then got injured full-time
Darren Bent- £16mill- scored the goals we needed, great signing but for whatever reason wanted to leave
Lee Cattermole- £6mill- started brilliantly, then got injured and struggled for consistant form amongst injuries ever since
John Mensah- loanx2- good player on his day, injured too much, shouldn’t have been brought back
Michael Turner- £4mill- struggled for consistant form, seems to be our only threat from set pieces though
Matthew Killgallon- £2mill- waste of money and space
Simon Mignolet- £2.5m- started well replacing injured Gordon, but struggled recently. Defence doesn’t seem to trust him. Potential?
Marcos Angelari- £2.5m- waste of money and space
Titus Bramble- £1m- our best player early in the season, struggled since coming back from injury…..too early 🙄
Ahmed Al Muhammadi- Loan- showed glimpses but struggles for consistancy, needs to improve on his delivery
Cristian Riveros- free- why buy someone and not give them a chance?
Nedum Onuoha- loan- started well but began to struggle midway through the season
Danny Welbeck- loan- as above with injuries
Asamoah Gyan- £13.25m- good player but doesn’t score enough goals
Sulley Muntari- loan- waste of space
Sessegnon- £6m- looks promising
So that is £61.75m spent, not counting the loan fees and we’ve got 5 first team players. The rest have either been busts, or wanted to leave for whatever reason.
Captain Lorik Cana left and wasn’t replaced, top goalscorer Darren Bent left and wasn’t replaced. Does Bruce have trouble dealing with big players?
Runtingz- For me football has been analysed to bits in recent years and those coming through understand tactics etc and I would say are More intelligent (degree level in some cases) than the old school types who manage by fear/personality/reputation/experience, that used to be enough but the continental managers have put paid to that.
James
Im still of the bruce out opinion, but theres and interesting debate for and against.
Whate ever I think bruce will be here until next Christmas at the earliest imo.
What role does the villa supporters have especially at vp. Are players scared or put in there shell? Lowton, westy, ayew all received abuse but are playing in the prem now. Bannanan at wed, albrighton raved about now but at vp was on the end of abuse at the time.
Are we fickle? Do we want too much too soon? Is it having an effect?
all ready on twitter hourihan has been getting abuse….has played twice for us!
What’s the predictions for tonight, first 11 and score?
If Bruce is here until next Xmas he will have to win a lot of matches very soon, how anyone can think we can afford to be this rubbish until next Xmas I don’t know.
As for tonight, Barnsley are a decent side and better than the last three we have lost to so 6-0 to us with us playing a new system Bruce has been working on since Saturday how can we fail 🙁
If anyone wants a laugh go and look up Steve Bruces transfers while at Hull virtually a whole team in every season.
Barnsley are a good team.
No idea how we will line up, may be a draw? 1-1
Need an early first goal for any sort of confidence
Johnson
Bree/bacuna Chester Baker Taylor
Lansbury Houriahan
Adomah Grealish Kodjer
Hogan
That’s what id like…
Andrew Albrighton got abuse ? – i don’t recall that – in fact it was the manager that abused him by not playing him
the last villa match i went to was away to palace – we were a joke and albri came on for the last 20mins and did more that all the others put together – but hardly ever played for us after that
as for my points yesterday Don’t blame players blame the manager
Johnstone
Bree Chester Baker Taylor
Adomah Hourihane Gardner Amavi
Kodija
Hogan
So to explain the above it’s 4-4-1-1 with Gardner told to hold in front of the back four nothing more than that, Amavi given licence to bomb up the wing but has some defensive intelligence to know to support Taylor. Kodija behind Hogan so he can see what’s in front of him that is better than shoot on sight.
As for score, I’m going for Villa to be beaten 2-1, for my own psychological reasons that if we win, it will be all the more pleasing than expecting a win.
prediction for tonight a 1 -2 loss
hope i am wrong but if true to form we will start well but get worked out and start to fade in the 2nd half
think Bree is inquired
runtings
watched albri at vp lots under the houllier, McLeish years and the lack of patience with the players was mad. straight on the backs, moans and groans galore.
albri looked ok under houllier but lambert never tried him. shame.
He is pretty basic though albri. Not the greatest but will put a shift in. does not muck about with crossing. controls it and next touch is a cross.
Hi Andrew
I personally don’t agree with getting on players backs unless like gabby they have been unprofessional , which is something that most players don’t do
from what i saw of albri at villa he has always giving everything and as a fan i could relate to him because of that
I am sure the likes of Kodjia will get pellets again if we don’t win —
the fans seem to target the wrong people when these managers have us playing like fools
hey runtings
yeah, I think now we see we have the players so bruce should get the pelters if results don’t happen.
Hi All
John Lerwill thanks for the kind words , sorry about wandering off after the funeral , l just needed a few moments to get my head straight , it was great too see you and thanks for the comforting pat on the shoulder , it was the hardest day of my life ,
that memorial you made was very welcome for his sister Linda and his niece Sarah and the words you all put as they were both shocked at the turn-out for gary and to have the words you all put about him even though some of you never met him would have given him a bit of a chuckle , on the saturday and sunday l was helping getting all his items together for the different charities , £560 was raised at the funeral which will all go to the PDSA (his fav charity) his clothing will go to the Salvation Army , and his Suits will go to the Charity Jenny told us about months ago , Suits for success , funny as when l was telling some of the lads where his belongings were going , All of them have exclaimed with surprise ” His Suits ” lol he had about 10 and nobody can recall ever seeing him in one ,
his music was left to me and his Guitar (which l called The Ornament) l did joke at the time of him writing his will that l didnt want “That pile of crap” , .
its his books lm struggling with as l dont know what to do with his books on Russian History , Prox if your reading this l would happily pay for postage and send them over to you as he did say once you and him had a kind of conversation about it , l’d love them to go somewhere they will be appreciated , or else its going to be in the loft and when lm gone people will say WTF was he (Deano ) doing reading this stuff !!!
Gary was cremated in a villa shirt and only this could happen to him , it was a white shirt for the 2000 cup final and Gary was one of the first to buy it but after a an hour the shirt was pulled from sale and a different shirt was produced , so he went to the gates in a very Rare shirt ,
l really thought the villa could have pulled it out the bag for Steamer on saturday but noooo , so on saturday evening in your minds eye l bet you all read Steamer words saying what a pile of shite the team was and get rid of Bruce ,
l will leave it there now for a while , but l will say this to each and everyone of you , in your own special way you all kept him going on this blog and broke his boredom and got him joining in something , l really do thank you as l couldnt be there all the time for him , as SWV said Gary did suffer with Depression so this did help . Thank You
All the best all
Jenny xxxxxxxxxxxxx
st it was my pleasure to be in Gary presence even if it was in cyber space – I can say it still hasn’t sunk in that i will not be able to read his brilliant comments and have that communication any more
I don’t think anyone of us having that contact with him over the years could ever forget him or ever stop wishing he was here
stay blessed st
All the best Deano
Dressed and ready for the battle against the mighty Barnsley….!!!
Time to load up the car and head out for the heady heights of Villa Park…England…
Great to see your update Steamer 75, and know that Steamer had a wonderful send-off.
I know that he will be in all our thoughts tonight, as we look for a turning point in Villa’s fotunes.
http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2017/2/11/14586426/aston-villa-efl-championship-relegation-concerns
My point exactly MK….We should not be in this position….
good one Paul, hope your efforts are worth it!
All the best steamer 75.
hope the lads give everything tonight for you and the villa faithful pp
Darren: “… we don’t have any authority to change that, but that shouldn’t prevent us from stating our opinions”
Fine – but where’s it going to get everyone? It seems mostly futile to go on about it in such profundity.
But, hey ho, please carry on if that’s what you want … 😉
Mark,
Perhaps he shouldn’t have been here to start with … perhaps … but the fact is he *is* here! 😉
Good evening each,
I will not be at VP tonight but I hope all you lifers who are attending see a win and a couple of goals from our boys.
Regarding the Steve Bruce debate, I say keep him in post until at least next Christmas. And only dismiss him then if we’re in danger of relegation. Which won’t happen.
With reference to our current form; The inclusion of one new player is not easy, unless its a successful winning, performing team. I give you examples of Jaun Paplo Angel,Tony Morley, Ken McNaught, all Villa legends from the 70’s,80’s and 90’s, all took a while to settle in, if your memories permit you to recall, long time ago I agree.
My point, we have recruited five new players into our squad (a squad with a serial losing mentality). They’re not going to transform this side into winners over night. But if they’re good enough, they will, in time.
They’re still finding their feet at the moment, probably living in hotels away from their families, unfamiliar with new team mates and new surroundings and expectations. Give it time is what I say.
And do you honestly think we’re relegation candidates…. Relegation……shmeligation, is what I say
Hope we rip it apart tonight, but I’d settle for a team performance and a streaky 1-0.
Oh an Deano it was good to see you and your brother and so many others last week. I don’t think I’ve seen Rosko in a suit before;-).
Winners all.
ST75,
Well put. And take good care of yourself!
Archies,
Well said. My feeling is that if we could just focus on the players (knowing that Bruce ain’t going anywhere) then we’ll derive more hope. But nothing is going to work overnight.
Oh … and tonight …
Got to be 6-0 hasn’t it?!
Blimey Archie if I’d have known it was that hard every time I started up a new season with new players in teams I have played for I’d have gone out and played crap and lost a lot more 😉
I wonder how poor old Huddersfield shifted out 15 ,brought in 15 and look like world beaters from day one? Its one thing having rubbish players but I’m sick of hearing how much time we need to give to have a team, its not the under eights. If I have to watch this until we are nearly relegated next Xmas I’m taking a break, I’m not asking for Barca just recognisable football, we don’t even have to win thats how flexible I am. 20 games Mr Bruce so far and more players in Jan than most teams can afford in the summer get it sorted or move over.
jL- no way Barnsley will get that many we have their top scorer and assists man 😉
looks like 442 and jacks playing hutton too and amavi
and adomah
Johnstone; Hutton, Chester, Baker, Amavi; Adomah, Hourihane, Lansbury, Grealish; Hogan, Kodjia.
Walking to the ground on Saturday I saw the team sheet and despaired. An attacking three at the back looked more like a defensive 5 at the back.
After the first 15 minutes utes I was ready to humbly admit I was wrong as we were playing decent football and really unlucky not to be 2 or 3 ahead.
However. . . . once we lost our momentum we were too slow to make changes and bring on our attacking players to turn the game round.
I can’t make the 450 mile round trip for midweek games (grrrrr) but at least tonight’s team sheet looks much more promising.
Really don’t know what result to expect !
i wouldnt want to be a passenger on a trip with spud he would be chopping and changing gear the entire trip, 3 players dropped, for the lifeof me how is jack back in team, as for hutton omy god will we ever have a right back of use he certainly isn t
James,
Well the plus side of including Grealish is that he’s been given his chance and to start using the talent that he has got locked away. If Bruce doesn’t play him then he’ll go elsewhere and bring out his talent in another place …
He’ll come good at some point, the question is how long…
Dean
Nice to read your post, take care of yourself.
We’ll probably win tonight just to be perverse
JG
I was hoping we’d see the kitchen sink playing it’d certainly take some stopping.
Mark
In the end you have to take it more seriously mate, you’re supposed to suffer.
3-0?
IanG I’ll have you know I take my suffering very seriously
JL- Jacks also a ready made excuse 🙂
johnl
yes i would like jack playing but after forest game on bench first, come on as sub work back into team
ian g
at least the kitchen sink wouldn t go missing when barnsley attack
Uh-oh…
i was typing bruce has 45 mins and codja pops up
uh oh indeed
2-1 & jack misses the ball – half time.
Mark
don’t enjoy it too much you’ll turn into a small heath supporter
Mind you the way you’ve been torturing us I was beginning to wonder
JG
judging by this we need 4 of them at the back
Glad for the goal, thought we were gone.
Bring on Green for Grealish.
Villa have been the better side, but losing from wasted chances.
Good on Kodija for scoring, but needs to look up more often.
Villa need to win. A draw won’t cut it.
C’mon Villa!
IanG- torturing? I’m trying to wake you lot up
Hope we have Houdini on the bench
Well, Mark, we’re awake – where were you during the first half?!
goes anyone really want to still stick with bruce until next xmas ?
Really good team on paper shame i can’t watch the game tonight
Can’t blame anyone with being sick of watching poor performances from Villa. If they can pull off a win today, they;ll get a bandaid.
does
Trinity
Yes Green for Grealish as he seems invisible mostly.
The too deep habit it seems
Tony Moreley’s making his usual sense
jesus watching barcelona getting torn apart di maria scored beauty,have villa game on sky text some comparison
Uh hoooooooooooooooooo
3 1 barnsley
spud out tonight
jon l could you spare/share some patience
Well, I still remember Villa coming back to 4-4 from 0-4 down against Liverpool nearly 60 years ago … but that was then.
Well, instead of following that text let me tell you about the fruit of some Villa research today …
Back in 1909 Villa went to play Bolton but fog caused the train to be delayed by hours and Villa arrived at the ground with 15 minutes to go and without having any lunch. They were running on empty!
They went 0-1 down but ended winning 2-1. They then had something to eat!
How can Xia continue to preside over this utter embarrassment?
I’m noting Hogan getting caught offside a wee bit too much.
well the kitchen sink off now , 3 subs on again to little to late
Gotta give this to Barnsley … 7 shots and 6 on target.
sigh 🙁 is it xmas yet? can we sack him Archie?
Stating the obvious I know, but this is becoming a crisis with Newcastle coming up on Monday.
Perhaps we all ought to go into hibernation!
Utterly embarrassing
JL- we did give it Barnsley,ipswich, forest,cardiff………….
JL- Hibernation? no room in the cave with bruce and his players 😉
I think I’m right in saying Bruce has not bettered any score against teams RDM played 🙁
Mark,
I still don’t think it’s just Bruce. I know he has shortcomings, but these huge change-rounds at Villa on top of 6 years of mismanagement has helped to create this mess.
Comparison with the likes of Huddersfield – I’m sorry – doesn’t wash with me.
Hahaha, steamer you old bugger you was right at day one. Spud head out
We’re back to the same old nonsense. Villa will be in the relegation zone pretty soon.
Villa had no response in the second half. What is Xia going to do? Brucie doesn’t appear to have any answer.
Tony Moreley’s just said that there seems to be a cancer at the club, & although many of the players [not all of them] have gone it still hasn’t changed & that there is still something rotten in the club.
Also that the club just has to write this season off & sort it properly, & that it has to come from the doc & if necessary get any player out that doesn’t buy into the club, especially with players leaving & saying they are relieved to go.
So many changes of players & managers that have brought new players in & tried to change it but it still hasn’t changed.
I agree that we could go one of 2 ways, change the manager & the problem starts again [too many managers have had the same problem with the same lack of success, so it can’t just be the manager, in fact a new manager may not make enough difference], or just sort it root & branch & then see where we’re going from there, even if it takes 18 months as Tony M says.
But the decision & the leadership has to come from the doc.
Knee jerk just catches the innocent
We also need to just stick with one team for a while, which I think most of us would agree with.
ian g
even at the start when bruce was winning,it was changes every week
IanG,
Yes, that word stability comes back to mind again – but to do as you say, to get the atmosphere and motivation right.
But the sorting out is not likely to get done midway through the season.
johnl
hull and swansea look stable
I think most Villa staff from top to bottom need to look at what Villa was about right at its origins and think on that. JL has said something to this effect in the past.
As Lana was saying, it could get uncomfortably near relegation, as there is understandably not very much confidence at the moment, which is related to the cancer, & I think it is going to get worse before it gets going.
It’s no longer a case of it just takes a few tweaks & all will be rosy because we are AV.
Maybe it is also a middle manager problem as JL said, I for one wouldn’t be surprised.
I have had nothing but problems for nearly 3 years with AVTV IT, with a disgraceful amount of confusion & incompetence.
But no one seems to know where the source of the problem is, & it doesn’t seem to be getting any nearer a solution.
If you get a problem with the AV organisation it just carries on due to the same hidden problem.
I think it affects the whole club including the football side, & fees the problem areas.
I have a feeling the doc is capable of sorting this kind of thing out, but not even he [or Bruce et al] was expecting it.
feeds the problem areas, even
Ian G
Agree a knee jerk reaction will not help, but a review is needed to fairly quicklly diagnose the club’s problem. I would now say that it is a club problem, not just a manager and players’ problem. There’s something else, perhaps intangible. the only tangible thing is the outcome of usually losing poorly. Maybe, they want to think about getting a Wesleyan (if they still exist) minister down to VP to bless the place. If not, ask the local Aston church to do it. Might sound strange to many now, but William McGregor and others in the early days wouldn’t think so. Other clubs do it.
Lana,
you can get the local clown to do it if it worked, but we used to go to football to get away from the establishment which was all those you mentioned.
As the Dalai Lama said, ” prayer alone won’t do it as you have to act, & I’m a buddhist & I believe in prayer”.
So maybe not.
Lana,
Also the problem isn’t intangible just covered over by self interest & hidden festering away & now becoming more & more visible.
Someone has to grasp the nettle & act, not indulge in more mystification.
That way has led to a turn over in a short time of far too many managers & players with the result we see now, & to be stuck with Bruce.
If the mass anger & frustration of the fans boils over we could just as possibly end up in league1 as find a miracle.
JL
You’re probably right.
Tony M said that there needs to be a lot of changes at the end of the season, both playing staff as well as other areas.
I’ve a feeling the doc is tough enough to do it considering he’s just bought into Hollywood.
Maybe we’ll get an AV movie out of it…
‘Fine – but where’s it going to get everyone? It seems mostly futile to go on about it in such profundity. But, hey ho, please carry on if that’s what you want … ;)’
Didn’t realise I needed permission to carry on with my futility. I can only advise that you choose to ignore anything I type should my profundity disagree with your sensibilities.
Sorry JL, pissed off with your comment, the website exists to allow it’s members to voice their opinion, futile or not. If you feel I shouldn’t express an opinion then what is the purpose of Aston Villa Life, smiley faces don’t cut it.
Oh well at least we have the stability of one manager – he may not be a tactician or a great man motivator or someone with a strong footballing philosophy but i would be a lunatic to call for his head
Darren,
Firstly, I wasn’t directing my comment towards you. I always find your comment worth considering.
I think I’ve told you that before.
I think perhaps we’re getting into the realm of taking statements too seriously … you can’t see the expression on my face! 🙂
I’m not giving “permission” … that’s ridiculous. But what I am saying is that the anti-Bruce rhetoric was getting into reams without many of the comments really saying anything. And that was BEFORE the match last night!
Fair enough JL, the joys of looking at a screen and intrepreting what was meant
Ian G
“Agree a knee jerk reaction will not help, but a review is needed to fairly quicklly diagnose the club’s problem._
Obviously prayer by itself won’t help, but they do need to address the problem. And I’m Iana not Lana, by the way.
How do we move on from here, seems to me that we’ve been in repeat mode all season. Start well early, fail to convert chances or convert one and because the early effort isn’t rewarded, the team starts to doubt what they are doing and as opposed to someone grabbing the game and taking control, the players regress.
The opposition grows in confidence because they’ve weathered the storm and start controlling the game, for the most part because they are established first 11s, they understand exactly the formation, the tactics and who each other play and use that to their advantage over a team that I feel is unbalanced in midfield, defence is lacking protection and the forwards have to work out if they are a partnership or just showcasing their own ability. Added to that the team have only played a handful of games together.
In terms of stick or twist, i’d absolutely stick if we were seeing improvement in our play however small but if Bruce is saying we need to get the basics right at this point in the season then it tells me that twisting may be the better option.
How long is fair in terms of giving Bruce time does he deserve another transfer window based on this season, if he was here til the end of the year are we shooting ourselves in the foot in terms of giving the next manager insufficient time to achieve promotion next season.
My opinion is to get rid now and get a tactician and a sports psychologist in, get rid of Hutton for all his ‘puts in a good shift’ he’s not good enough, get rid of Flabby and Richards and that’s the end of the bad eggs in the club. Get rid of Calderwood now and replace with Keane to give the lads a kick up the arse. We look like we have modern footballers being subjected to dinosaur coaching, the status quo can’t continue.
I do love a good relegation battle though, we’ve enough experience of it.
I see that Jack has had a lot of stick for his non-display last night. 🙁
DOR
“My opinion is to get rid now and get a tactician and a sports psychologist in, get rid of Hutton for all his ‘puts in a good shift’ he’s not good enough, get rid of Flabby and Richards and that’s the end of the bad eggs in the club. Get rid of Calderwood now and replace with Keane to give the lads a kick up the arse. We look like we have modern footballers being subjected to dinosaur coaching, the status quo can’t continue.”
I’d go with your ideas here. Keane said Villa had no ambition and that was on his mind when he left. Now the club has some ambition, he could be useful. Get rid of Gabby, Richards, Calderwood. I feel sorry for Hutton, but I hear what you’re saying. Who could manage with Keane as coach? Any candidates in mind?
“I see that Jack has had a lot of stick for his non-display last night.”
Everybody is hoping Jack’d do well. Sentimentality has worn off. What does Villa do with Jack?
Lets get a decent manager in before we start taking players apart – Jack has been at villa all his career and only progressed as a player while on loan
Every single player brought in is half the player they were at other clubs
Now you can blame it on lack of effort – players not caring or whatever but i wager you will not see the best out of any villa player under the current manager and his assistants
the manager is the most important thing for success at any club – imo of course
bruce
we will batten down the hatches
we will go again
we will roll up our sleeves
sounds so fucking familiar at villa another manager not capable of doing his job, he has had 22 matches and bar the first 5 [new manager ] everything has got worse,players dropped reinstated weekly,formations chopped and changed but one thing hasnt changed is lack of effort on field,concentration levels conceding last 10 mins things any manager and coaches could see mile off[a kebab bruce could see at 20 miles]
what was codja back defending a free kick in his own box 3 rd goal, managers orders, 2 nd goal centre halfs backing away from barnsley striker [bruce was a defender] why 1st goal amavi makes a mistake it happens,the set up last night again was shocking grealish reinstated after forest game played in front of amavi who needs a steady influence playing wide left to help him
Runtings,
Firstly, looking at it from the chairman’s perspective it’s unlikely that he will countenance another change of manager this season. It doesn’t fit in with his own statement about need for stability.
Secondly, the team has suffered another big makeover, and it has to be allowed to settle. In my view there’s no point in saying that players here are half they were at their former clubs … as yet the current lot haven’t been allowed to settle down with one another. It’s nice to hope that they would be good enough to settle straight away, but clearly they’re having a difficulty.
But it is a worry that the defence is leaking again, and last night’s defence is the old one! Maybe it just needs Jedi to put some spine in front of ’em.
It would also help a lot if Villa’s shooters can get more on target – last night (again) over 20 attempts on goal, but only 6 on target. Barnsley, 7 shots and 6 on target.
It’s possibly getting those two basics sorted that will get us back on the road again…
.. but first there’s Newcastle… 🙁
Hi Iana
I don’t think Keane needs any particular type of manager, I think Keane needs to realise and has realised he’ll only ever be a great number two, the passion he has and the desire he has instilled for the Ireland team is there to see, so any manager would be able to work with Keane.
Apart from Lambert who was too weak-willed to stand up to Flabby and took the safety of his job and sacrificed Keane.
If you are asking me to name a manager than Frank deBoer would be my toppest of choices both for an exceptional multi-country playing career and having managed in Holland and Italy, there is a man who has learnt from the best, being Dutch understand that tactics are hugely important unlike Bruce who’s flippant remark all those years ago must be haunting him today, or at least I’m not letting him forget it.
JL, from the chairman’s perspective, agree it would be egg on his face if we sacked Bruce but isn’t the club bigger than the sum of its parts and a bit egg is the least of our worries as we flirt with another relegation but equally if as chairman the remit you provide to Wyness and Round is to get me a man with promotion on his CV and screw if the football is any good then you reap what you sow and we and the club suffer for it.
Again stability is great if there are the shoots of improving performances but where’s the improvement, if we were concerned with stability in January then we wouldn’t have bought a brand new midfield or introduced them all at once, January de-stabilised the club further, Bruce trying to integrate Flabby de-stabilised the club, Bruce going public on McCormack de-stabilised the club, Bruce getting one inexperienced keeper to replace another didn’t stabilise the club.
This season has been a missed opportunity and the merry go-round may slow down for a year with Bruce staying but it’s still turning and I can’t wait for it to spin Bruce out on his arse because this club only needs good football, promotion will happen naturally with it and Bruce can’t provide it if he’s still addressing basics with 3 months to go.
the dr and his sidekick not said a word on twitter!
can not actually believe how bad things are. will the nightmare ever end.
surly we have had our root and branch clear out/review when learner left. we was stripped bear and the dr has his own men in and we have pretty much a new team! how can we still be so bad! defo going down the leeds/forest route…its going to take years.
It will if the be all and end all is promotion first and good football second, happened to every team ever trying to race back to the top table instead of building back up to it especially in the cases where the clubs were massive historically and couldn’t comprehend not being in the top division.
I know massive amounts of money are involved and that is a pervasive influence but we have to truly stop the merry go-round and look to build a Villa way from the youths up so that each age group as they move up knows exactly what to do right up to the first team.
This can only be achieved if a manager is hired for their tactical ability, man management ability and if they are lacking in that, that they have the foresight to surround themselves with people who will compensate for that. They need to be allowed to fail as much as they need to be allowed to build the style of play.
It would take years in terms of youth levels but in reality with the financial ability of the chairman, the first team could be gradually bought for the style of play over a number of transfer windows and see the fruits of that patience in two or three years. That may seem like an age to be away from the prem but we’d be watching good winning football, we’d be accounting for the future development of our youth and re-establishing us as a top club as opposed to some yo-yo club not quite good enough for the prem but too good for the championship.
Do we think Bruce is concerned with youth development or building a football structure at Villa to last the next ten years, no, it’s all about promotion and that’s how he’ll be judged. This haste is our undoing.
Hi JL
I can’t say i agree with anything from you response to my last post , but fair play for your view of things
IMO to carry on with bruce would be professional suicide
I will put money on the doc wanting stability in rubbish
When you have a 70mil squad in the championship that are highly paid and are clearly good players under other managers m losing and playing the way we are is unexceptionable to me and hopefully the doc too
keeping Bruce til the end of the season makes it very difficult for anyone new to come in and access who stays who goes and who is needed and as the season draw closer to its end all clubs/managers will have one eye on plotting for next season
we may not even stay up if bruce doesn’t go
Steamer you were bang on again fella he said we would go down under bruce . something which doesn’t seem as far fetched as when he called it when bruce arrived
not wanting
id have rowett in tomorrow.
Bruce was brought in to get play offs…failed. get out. Don’t trust him to build long term.
But I feel whatever we do wont be enough…for some reason aston villa as a club is in free fall. We are living that moment in history where we are in decline. Be a decade till we rise again I reckon.
I suppose if bruce goes now. Rowett obvious choice?
Darren: “it’s all about promotion and that’s how he’ll be judged. This haste is our undoing.”
That is the bit that really underlines the current situation. But that’s where we are, and (agree with it or not) changing the manager again before May will not help matters. I say that with 100% certainty.
Runtings does not seem to agree with my p.o.v. on this and related issues, but not to agree must surely hint that some people prefer chaos to at least an attempt at stability. Aside from which the Doc has said that stability must rule. We need to have a constant base to work from and changing managers every 4 months or so is not helping that.
And talking of “stability”, I agree Darren that the events that occurred during (mainly) January did not help stability, but some points are more serious than others. For example, saying that introducing Gabby brought instability may or may not be correct, but Bruce really did not have much option for January given that Ayew was not happy nor helping the club too much, Gestede was an iffy player unless you played specifically to his strengths, RHM was giving contract problems and Codger was away in Africa.
Bruce rather inherited the January situation, so as I see it he just tried to plug the gap as well as he could.
Andrew: “Bruce was brought in to get play offs”
No, that’s not really correct. He was brought to get promotion – ideally this season. But the Doc has (earlier this season and lately) re-iterated that he accepts it being a 2 year project.
Whether Bruce is here for next season must be a moot point, but if there is sign of a settled team between now and May then I’d guess he’ll stay … to get us what he was brought for – promotion.
Should Bruce get through this season OK, then I see it as Archie said, if Bruce shows signs of failing by Christmas (poss. November) then I’d see the Doc hiring a replacement at that point.
Hi JL
It may avoid relegation if Bruce doesn’t have the answers to change the current form.
In terms of Flabby – the de-stabilising factor was that his club mates seen that here was a player so unprofessional in his approach to his employers that it required him to go on a fitness regime having partied for most of the previous season. What message does that send to McCormack, to RHM in terms of fight for your place on the training ground and I’ll select you or, do feck all and I’ll put all my eggs in that Flabby basket.
Re Gestede, speculation sure but had we kept him the new midfield may have made better use of his talents. There is an element of inheritance in terms of Kodija but equally he created it by selling Gestede early in the window by persisting with Flabby when maybe RHM or RMC could have done better, definitely not worse in terms of goal return.
”Runtings does not seem to agree with my p.o.v. on this and related issues, but not to agree must surely hint that some people prefer chaos to at least an attempt at stability.”
What is it that is stable about Villa right now
i have made all the points i can on this matter so there is no convincing anyone that thinks its the best option/idea to keep a failing bruce in place
As far as i am concerned we will continue to go backwards under the current manager – for anyone who can’t see the point of how important the right manager is will be able to tolerate things as they are –not me
Darren, we can argue the Gabby situation until we’re blue in the face! 😉
But, let’s face it, most of the team was not around last season when Gabby was acting up (even Baker was out on loan) and I doubt that the new players cared too much of what happened last season.
As for RHM and RMC they both played silly billies so Bruce took the right decisions i.m.o.
If you (or anyone) doesn’t like Gabby, then OK, but looking at it from the *new* management p.o.v. I don’t see much wrong with their actions there.
As for Gestede, I think only the likes of Albert and Green would have got much out of him – not a new midfield. – but I agree that if wingers had been employed then Rudi may well have had a role to play. It was when balls came to Rudi from out wide that he showed his killer touch – e.g. vs Liverpool (a) last season.
Runtings: “What is it that is stable about Villa right now”
Agreed – in a way. But you can’t make anything stable by changing it around once again by replacing the manager.
So long as Bruce prevents relegation this season then I’m not overly worried. If he’s not showing up properly by autumn then I’d quite happily endorse a request for his replacement. That means being in a state of pain for most of the rest of this season, but there’s nothing new about that is there. 🙁
What’s to argue re Flabby he was unprofessional, had to go on his own training regime after the season had started and contributed zero during his time on the pitch.
I was speaking of Flabby as a de-stabilising influence on this season as it proved to those around him and players talk and read the papers so all the knew about Gabby before they joined the club. If the club accepted unprofessionalism from him, it would accept it from anyone, that in itself is de-stabilising.
Agreed they both played silly billies but in a different environment where being a silly billy wasn’t punished by being given game time then they may have acted differently.
JL for me if the board share your view of things it won’t be too long before we are playing non league football and that is not a dig just my honest assessment of our current situation
all this talk of stability..i wish bruce would show some by picking a team, picking a formation and playing them every week.
How can we get anywhere when it changes game after game! surly an experienced manager knows that! no wonder we look lost
Stability seems to be talked of in isolation as being the buzz word for Villa but without explaining what it means. Again stability would be fine if there is progression but one draw since Jan 1 smacks of regression, how far do we have to regress to become stable, a further relegation, mid-table obscurity, the odd win, finishing above Small Heath (like it matters, only matters to Small Heath as they’ve nothing to shout about).
Stability should be followed by some clarity as to what the expectations are in this suggested stable period. Is stability a face saving exercise for Dr.T when at some point Bruce fails, then we can sit comfortably knowing we gave him time. Meanwhile the merry go-round is plugged back in and off we go again.
I’m suggesting stability by changing the manager, it won’t happen in reality fine but Bruce has not proven he is capable of improving the playing standards of this club, he’s proved that he won’t get a play-off spot so change not for change sake but to allow a new different type of manager a bed-in period in advance of a transfer window is what I’d suggest.
I’m entirely unconvinced by the football I’m watching that Bruce will do anything but maintain the status quo and that is poor football played by good footballers denied the ability to perform because of the pressure to get promotion and the lack of an appropriate training regime.
Look at the top sides in the championship, promotion spots are a natural result of playing good football not promotion based on a race to secure 3 points regardless of how it’s achieved.
Well Steamer would be spitting by now, and quite frankly I can’t understand why we would want to keep Bruce on the basis of what he is providing? when I hear him talk it is in very general terms that are designed to deflect with the odd excuse. He is coming over not unlike Tim at the moment who also did not have the answer.
One thing that hit me was his latest which is turnover of players and stability so I had a dig around. First season at hull he brought in 19 players!!! 3 buys the rest loans and free agents, the out door was remarkable, 30 odd loans went out not one sold!! Hull ended up in 2nd and went up so hurrah! roll on to now and Villa 40 players in and out thats mad sez Steve 🙂
Seems to me its about what we want at Villa for the future, the garden wall fell down, do we get Dave down the road that has built several walls but never truly understood what he was doing so the walls came back down after a couple of years or do we get someone who has really studied and continues to update his skills in Bricklaying to set a foundation for similar brickys to maintain in years to come with much less effort and fuss with a bit of pointing.
A good coach/manager would know what type of bricks he was looking for when he buys them and what type of wall he wanted to produce, he would not be saying lets try that one and that style today as it fell down again last night.
Oh and he is still talking about back to basics six weeks after he said we would be going erm….Back to basics
JL- Stability has to come from the manager, not because he’s been there a long time but because he has a plan and a method to work to, something for the players to believe in and concentrate on because at the moment they have no training to fall back on, they may even be defaulting back to what they have done before. Practice is repetition until it is ingrained so unless Bruce is trying to teach them nuclear physics I’d say they are just running around with a ball at BMH with little direction.
I know what you are saying about not getting rid now but for me it would depend entirely on if we could get the right manager at this time, they are out there.
Stability
“Stability” in this context is simply keeping things (people, resources in general) in place until such time it can plainly be seen to be not working enough for the chairman.
Since we’ve had a big turnaround of players in January, we’ve barely travelled down the road yet, time-wise, to test whether it works or not.
In my view it needs a period of 4 to 6 months minimum (and mostly without change) to test it.
We can argue as much as we like that what we see isn’t working, but supposing it’s working well by April? If it’s not then significant change would be needed,
If you’re worried it ain’t going to work enough before we get relegated, then clearly you have no faith! 🙂
Darren: “I was speaking of Flabby as a de-stabilising influence on this season as it proved to those around him and players talk and read the papers so all the knew about Gabby before they joined the club. If the club accepted unprofessionalism from him, it would accept it from anyone, that in itself is de-stabilising.”
Well, here we go again … 😉
I’d see it is arguable whether “the club” saw him being unprofessional (last season) as both the manager and chairman were not here then. Therefore the manager took the line that as he was not here – and that he saw that Gabby was working hard under his watch – that he did not believe there was a case against Gabby.
The regime at Villa being a new one, any newcomers should not have cause to believe they could get away with silly-billiness.
The Return Of The Jedi
I think this will be the solution .. so long as he remains fit for the rest of the season.
Er … the solution to the “how to keep us up question”!
Well it hastaken me up until now to be able to read the comments here, and digest them, and come up with some sensible thoughts on here, having also taken in to account the feelings of my fellow Villa fans at the game last night.
I had a feeling that all may not be well, when the record playing almost halfway to Villa Park , was “Gloria” by Laura Brannigan… and within 5 minutes I hit a road closure…Eventually made it to the Aston Tavern for a refreshing pint!!
The game started reasonably well, and then there was the Amavi slip..and the game then progressed reasonably for a while and Villa had a couple of nice moves, but hey ho! another slip…and you then begin to see how much more Barnsley want to win this game, as they fight for every ball!! The usual happens and we end up losing 3-1, because there is no fight…no direction…and no will..Only Bjarnason showed an inkling of any desire to win the ball in the end..and the fans are really getting pissed off with arm waving JG… WE all get a feeling that players like Lansbury and JG, are now on refs watch lists for different reasons.
There has been a lot said already about Bruce, so I will not add a lot, but it really cannot go on.
Last night was so remeniscent of just over two years ago and the Lambert era, when we once again, had so many new players, they became frightened, and we ended up losing game after game. The rot has stop, and that needs a REAL man manager to put confidence back into these young players.
We need a group that loves each other, is willing to fight for each other, and sticks together until the job is done. You only have to look at managers like Sean Dyche to see it.
I feel that Steve Bruce’s last game will be after the Newcastle game, and by the DR Tony will have found his man. Maybe third time lucky.
To finish off a wonderful evening…..Highwqays England had closed the M5, just to make my trip to Bristol just that bit more interesting….but hey ho we go again….!!!!
The parting song from Villa fans last night was:
” If you are all going to Walsall, clap your hands……
DOR
Nice post Darren. Frank deBoer/Keane should be a great combo. Sounds decent to me. Keane definitely gets respect from the players. Those midfielders would look up to him with the hope of emulating some of the playing success he had. I sincerely hope, if Brucie goes, they don’t bring in an ex Blues manger. I hope Paul Pears is right and Brucie goes after the Newcastle game. I like Bruce the man. Shame about the results, however. You never know, Villa might get up for the Toons, but they could thrash us. If they do, Brucie will go. The fans will demand it. Would be better to get it over and done with than have one good game against Newcastle, then consistently lose again.
Gabby wouldn’t be happy to see Keane again, would he?
Wouldn’t be surprised if Kieran Clark scores for Newcastle. Would have liked to have seen him developed as a midfielder.
John Gregory Story Part 3…
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/john-gregory-signed-brazilian-during-12610999
JL- Stability? Just don’t get how when RDM had 9 new players (with 4 only arriving after 5 games played) that after 11 games it was fine to sack him yet after 20 games with Bruce to fine tune and bring in players to improve the team its now fine to go through months of rubbish just in case it works? what other team does this? other than relegated ones. He has had patches like this in other teams and it generally ended in relegation or the sack.
if jedinak is the answer to all our problems we seriously need to look at the players we have just bought, I think at when at his best he is an asset but only to cover the deficiencies of the defence and midfield.
I was amazed that Bruce reintroduced Green to the squad once he’d sold Gestede, he then bought a player that thrives on through balls while shifting one that thrives on through balls?
pp
i wasnt playing last night , or waving my arms JG LOL
i was fuming watching psg barce reading text from sky on villa
Mark,
The issue is basically that you can’t keep changing managers every 4 or 6 months and hope to make progress.
And also we’ve just signed all these players and there’s still an opportunity to get things back on course. Whether it will or not we’ll soon find out…
Mark, you’re comparing the situation with RDM and Bruce yet again but honestly, that’s futile.
We all know (including you in previous posts) that RDM had lost it and had to go.
Had Bruce been the manager at the start of the season with our current results I have no doubt that the Dr would have got rid of him.
The only question ‘now’, under the ‘current’ circumstances, is whether Bruce should now go.
As John says, we can’t carry on forever getting rid of managers. Bruce ‘has’ had success so must have it within him to succeed.
Sometimes, you get a new manager bounce, and of course we remember those. I’ve looked back at premiership manager sackings in the past and it’s amazing how many make little or no difference though.
If we lose another 3 or 4 on the trot then relegation will genuinely start to loom in the rear view mirror and we may have to cross fingers, avoid walking under ladders, throw caution to the wind and bring someone new in and hope.
We don’t need many wins now to be safe though and I’d hope that Bruce can find those and then regroup over the summer.
Oh, but if he wants a load more signings then I’d say ‘no’ make the players we have now gel instead.
If he can’t work and make a success with these players then he should get out now. We DO NOT need more changes this summer.
I’ve said it before, you can’t polish a turd. There are lots of opinions again on when Spud must go, not if, but when. Even reading between JL’s lines, he’s giving him till next Christmas, well if we give him that long it then becomes a three year plan does it not. If he hasn’t turned things around come May then here’s your pink slip and don’t let the door hit you on the way out. How about bringing in Mick from Ipswich with Neil from Hib’s, at least if we still play crepe they could knock out a couple of tunes (Lennon & McCarthy). Well i had to make my self chuckle, cuz the rubbish I’ve been force fed for the past few years is sticking in my throat.
Footy ain’t that hard, just stick more in their goal than they do in yours, even Keegan got that.
Robbo I mention RDM because he is a reference point with the same squad for what we are seeing now. Yes he had lost it but never got the chance to correct imbalances in the project he started. Bruce got better results with RDM’S squad than his own so far and RDM played better footy yet we are supposed to cheer this crepe on until we are absolutely sure it’s crepe, I think we have all gone insane. I’m not after a new manager bounce I just want someone from this century and progression
robbo
we need a goalkeeper centre half and a defensive type midfielder at least with or without spud
canadian villa
will its definitly lady GA GA at the minute watching that crap bruce saysis football
Case in point Paul lambert 3 seasons 5 windows and utter shite mostly Bruce is supposed to be a football manager not Edison on his 897th attempt at making a light bulb 😉
Canada: “Reading between JL’s lines, he’s giving him till next Christmas, well if we give him that long it then becomes a three year plan does it not.”
Nope … promotion at end of 2017-18 is still within the 2 years.
Mark: “I just want someone from this century and progression”
You”ll get it – it’s just a matter of when. Not before the summer though and (I suspect) after Bruce has gained promotion next season.
lana, nice to meet you!
Sorry to be missing, I’ve just come round.
Frank De Boer would definitely be an upgrade on Rowett, that’s the kind of future direction to go in.
Don’t even want to talk about the flabby sagas any more, the sooner he’s gone instead of taking up a decent player’s space the better.
A bit of stability is only temporary, we are the Villa after all.
I don’t really agree with creating chaos to hide ones designs aka Deadly who is still haunting the place, & even though it may be a bit of relief in the short term chancer areas [eg: Trump, Deadly], but not in the long term.
DOR
We haven’t quite reached the point of no other way yet, as much as it grieves me to say as we’re stuck with Bruce.
We haven’t got stability either right now, but you’re right, we could do with some clarity, but AV is not used to that.
Mark
I think stability [& good football] comes from confidence which is shared, & in this case getting rid of those who can’t hack it without destroying something/somebody or those who can’t get their heads out of the Lerner era games.
The manager is part of this process not the only one that creates it.
Jack needs to find a professional nast side ot he will go completely missing.
nasty side even…
Mark
Have you got a new career writing comedy scripts?
Just imagine a chant for Edison
Jl- what makes you so sure Bruce will get promotion? And we will be in no way good enough playing his brand of football to reinvent ourselves overnight in the prem. seems pretty obvious that the champs has changed a lot in recent years especially the calibre of teams gaining promotion. Note not all the managers have previous promotions and they all play decent brands of football and can explain what they are doing, if Bruce was my doctor I’d walk out the office after listening to him.
IanG I try to keep it light 🙂
there are good managers and there are bad ones , we haven’t had a good un for a while
there is no benefit whatsoever in keeping a poor manager
Just realised that Jack comment is an echo from John Gregory, but I still agree with it.
When I played Rugby & football, if it wasn’t working you had to change it or at the very least skilfully apply dark tactics [without getting sent off], to block their game.
Every one else manages it but us, & we get sent off when it’s an accident.
The spudhead was at the very least that kind of player, so why isn’t he passing it on?
When I see the likes of Wagner and klopp and even silva wanting their team to enjoy themselves and equipping them to do so and then see Bruce I could weep. If ever a team needed a leader this ones it and instead we have a man who points the finger brilliant 🙁
MK
It depends where he’s pointing it mate
Have read what Steve Bruce has had to say about he may have made mistakes in trying to change things too quickly, and should have perhaps persevered longer, going back before Xmas.
He also admitted that once again, since Xmas he may have rushed things, and not taken time to introduce new players and change systems. For that, I will accept his honesty, but that does not change the failings, or put right not putting a true leader on the pitch.
If he has to be given time, then so be it. but I feel it will change little, in time to save this season. The important thing is will it be sufficient to prepare for next season. We can only hope, but I fear that he is not the right man.
Well the dr again tweeted a pic of the expendibles film poster……he is going to buy the film makers that make that film with the words fight together or summin. Sounds like no plans to get rid anyhow
Another prof chap on twitter who knows alot on the chinease says alot of noise about xia and recon group. Not sure what…ch 4 moving to brum, the train h2 and the film thing. Hope the dr dont forget about us!!
PP
Long term 99% of us are with you on that.
But in the short term he may yet sort of steady the ship long enough for him & the doc to weed a few more poisonous ones out.
I don’t know about half full, if there’s anything in the glass at all I’m an optimist, comes of the cost of a tipple.
Fair play to you getting to the match, I thought the M5 & greater worcester had blocked the A38
There are no words to add…it’s just so bad. I can only laugh at it.
Loved a quote in the Mail, which is apparently written on the walls of most training grounds around the country, “Hard work beats talent when talent does not work hard”….
Should be in ay least two foot high letters in the dressing room at Villa Park……or perhaps it is, but in the away one, as it is the byword of all the recent teams that have visited…!!!
Paul
“Hard work beats talent when talent does not work hard”
Well said.
Mark: “what makes you so sure Bruce will get promotion?”
Can’t be 100% sure … but he has a track record and we’ll see by the end of the season whether his players are likely to hack it.
In other words, his record at this level qualifies him as much as anyone.
What happens after promotion is another thing.
If I were you I’d get your coaching badges quick … they might need you! 😉
Morning each,
I’m grounded at the moment with a heavy cold. I seems I’ve gone into full full mucus production on an industrial scale, I know too much information.
The remainder of season will, I think, see Steve Bruce establishing a system of play and getting the playing staff to apply themselves to it. Its his squad now. I think we’ll fly next season, mid table this season.
Can’t sack the manager, we need to establish stability. If we’re where we are now this time next year. Thats different.
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Question;
how do you attached photos,….anyone know?
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Archie
No but I’d like to if anyone knows