Well, this has been a 10-day period of transfer action … and some action at that. There must be some doubt as to whether Steve Bruce reads Aston Villa Life to determine what we thought/think of the squad’s weaknesses, but the signings seem to me to indicate that he’s on a similar wavelength to a lot of us. And I’ve just had a marvellous insight into why that might be … it must be the fact he’s English without pretence to being influenced by foreign thinking. He’s of the old school, and I for one am hugely relieved by that even if I shared doubt with some on the suitability of his appointment.

Anyhow, he’s clearly worked out where in the team the weaknesses lie, and in the kind of signings he’s made he’s clearly been unhappy with dealing with players who are not committed or skilled enough to fully contribute to the cause, or players that sometimes think that just to get on the pitch and do a shimmy or two qualifies them for hero status. And talking of which I’ve been bringing to mind how until about 20 years ago, to be locally-born and to play for Villa was a big thing and such players are found in Villa’s history to be the bedrock of Villa’s old successes. Locally-born great captains like Devey, Spencer, Bache, Moss and Walker come to mind, but since Walker’s retirement in 1933, there have been precious few who have been anywhere near the quality of that group. Thankfully, however, Harry Potts, Frank Moss jnr., Harry Parkes, Peter Aldis, Alan Deakin, John Deehan, Garry Shaw and Ian Taylor have flown the local flag with distinction in the last few decades, while the reason why highly-hyped players like Collymore and Grealish have not met that level of commitment intrigues me. And with Gabby and Vassell we have suffered two other local disappointments, it has to be said.

The call I have read on AVL to “develop a significant core of our current squad and academy players” resonates with me, also, but it would appear that at present we have virtually no-one from that group who will much help the Doctor’s target of promotion this season. If that is his target then bringing in comparatively untried players would almost certainly cause delay. But it does not mean to say that academy players should not be given their chance to shine as substitutes at the right moments in a match … or towards the end of the season should the target be missed.

Anyhow, all those Villa-Lifers who have voiced their doubts about the suitability of Hutton, Westwood and Bacuna must now be cheered by the kind of recruits that have just been signed, players that appear to be experienced professionals, ambitious and also seem to be multi-skilled, hopefully adding weighty support to the scoring instincts of Mr. Kodjia.

But wait! We also read that Steve Bruce likes two strikers up front, and it appears that he doesn’t mean that Gabby is the second of those two. He appears to be earnestly looking for another bright spark to assist Jonathan, and there are 3 days left in this window for that to happen.

Now all these lovely signings are still fine on paper … but we have to see how they work out in practise. And with Villa on the tele on Tuesday at Brentford we should be able to detect how good they might be. If they prove to be what we needed let us hope there is enough time for their impact to be felt and that we start zooming up the table. In fact, new signing Hourihane told the club’s website: “For Villa, I hope we go on a run now and get into the play-offs. That’s what we will be fighting for every single day in training. …”

It appears there’s still hope!

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John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.

Comments 419

  3. Mark King

    I echo pauls words john thank you

    In my mind we have reached this juncture through good old trial and error. Its easy to see if players are good enough once they are playing in the league. Not so easy to sift through 30 eager and not so eager players and form an idea there and then in the summer and a short one at that. The new mid-fielders look more Dynamic than any we have had for years I must say whether they can blend is another matter entirely. We now have no less than 5 former club captains, captained by a new captain. Can all these ego’s work together when they are not likely to be the hub of the team? that is the question we are about to find out.

  4. IanG

    poor wycombe spuds didn’t deserve it jammy s*ds 8 min extra time & they scored at nearly 9 min
    This’ll go down in folk lore in Lincoln deserved it

  6. Paul Pears

    Great to see we have reached the stage of the bigger clubs, and look like we have done the deal for Jacob Bedaux with Bury, on the basis of a loan back deal, and perhaps we will be doing the same with Exeter for Ollie Watkins. This is certainly a great advance for Villa, lining up future talent, while letting them continue their development.

  7. John Lerwill

    Agreed PP. It certainly confirms that Villa are not ignoring the need for youth development, and that the first-team signings we’ve just had to are to get us through to the next phase of evolution.

    There be a plan in operation at VP, there be…

  10. Heroes-and-Villans

    Luke moore and delfounso were meant to be future england players!

    With mark though, you just never bloody know with signings how they will fit in or pksy for you till they get on the pitch. Actions speak louder than words. Fingers crossed!!!

  15. Trinity

    John
    Excellent leader, a great summary of the last week and accurately expresses what most of us are thinking and hope for. Very happy with Brucie’s business, just hope the players can deliver when it counts. So, I”m sure we all look forward to Brentford with renewed enthusiasm, especially with the return of Kodija up front.

  16. Paul Pears

    When you look at how young players are handled, especially when they reach their teens, it is a complete lottery with very few clubs having defined systems in place, and the tendency to believe that the oan system i the be all and end all of gaining experience. I was listening to the ex- Chelsea lad who was playing for Brentford to day, and one who great things were expected of, and you realise how poorly they are looked after, and virtually end up living out of a suitcase, in different digs, at different clubs, and no real map to follow for progress.

    I am very strongly of the opinion that it is the luck of the draw whether they succeed, who coaches them, what peer group they fit into, and the limited opportunities they get to show their real talent.

  17. Paul Pears

    How many youngsters have been cast aside, then somewhere down the line, if they have been very lucky, someone has picked them up and put them back onthe success trail. Would Beckham, Keane, Rooney and many others made it without Fergie’s sharp eye for talent and guidance taken them to the heights they reached???

    Cahill , Graham, Blanchflower, Albrighton, and Johnson and Robinson, and so many other players have escaped the Villa net and become, or may become great players in their time…

  18. Paul Pears

    JL,

    Excellent article on the “Fonz”, which underline my thoughts on how a football club fails to look after its youngsters, and provide a proper career path for them, and feel this is the diference with the Southampton’s of this world.

    I am sure if Jenny is reading this stuff, she woud have something to say.

  19. John Lerwill

    PLEASE add your memorial at the website address shown here…

    *************
    Gary Haddon (Steamer)
    *************

    Please find a web page that I have created for the purposes of personal remembrances about Gary, and which is intended to be delivered to his family on the day of the funeral.

    I hope you will stop by and leave a message, and please notify all who may be interested.

    The webpage is: https://www.partingwishes.com/memorials/Steamer

  20. John Lerwill

    Jack Grealish

    Well, the B’ham Mail is saying that Jack is working closely with the assistant manager to improve his game.

    Jack says: ““I need to vary up my game and I’m working on that, I know I need to get better”.

    Well, that attitude sounds more +ve, at least.

  21. Mark King

    Andrew- Highly doubt Bruce has anything to do with signing Young players for the future with Round here, his realm is the here and now and Bree is 19 and proven at this level, with De laet to come back and hutton to go end of the season thats the RB position covered. We have signed a few youngster lately none are for the first team bar Bree. It will be interesting to see if he goes straight in on Tues.

    JL- as I have said Grealish is a young 21, I think in the 70’s kids times were harder and money rare

  23. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    Only jesting….yeah round def all over the young players, and new scouts. Such a better set up!

    Would of thought bree will start.

    Jack seems close to clemence, hopefully see some improvement.

  27. Archie

    Evening lifers, a bit of down time until Brentford next Tuesday…new team …lets wait and see.
    too much time on my hands…. went to Wembley with Gary in 1971 versus Spurs , League cup Final, ten years later we won the league …who would believe it. More adventures ahead, thats our great club.
    Steamer 75 you out there…
    do you like 80’s soul? …just heard Womack & Womack, Love Wars…what a tune ..from about 1982 or 83..
    see you 10/02/17….raise a glass ,eh

  29. Mark King

    JL- Seems to me he responds better to a close relationship much like his family one, he was close to Tim S too. Kids need stability in their lives no matter how we think they should man up they are still kids, I think Its fair to say Rooneys early life was no walk in the park, My ladies sister works in a junior school in Liverpool and the stories are shocking .

    Not surprised he has turned to Clemence as Bruce is apparently not a hands on manager, these days they are called coaches because they coach, with the ever increasing backroom staff what is Steve Bruce doing? Its exactly why he is not my pick, would prefer someone that can convey what he wants on a personnel level.

    Seems to me Tish might be a make weight if he does ok at forest as there are add ons for Lansbury as there are for the other new players.

  30. Mark King

    That reminds me I listened to a philosophy talk and one chap said that in the 70’s as a kid he was left to his own devices by his parents, out and about like I was. He also mentioned that the Paedophilia was no less statistically back then, Kids just were told not to talk to strangers not Guarded 24/7. We do like to fill people with fear these days.

  32. Heroes-and-Villans

    hmmm amystery man is close to being signed, not mentioned in the press before. I hope its a winger with lighting pace. really want someone quick.

    Wants 2 defender and a striker.

    taylor, beau and Rhodes I reckon.

  34. DarrenO

    Should Neil Taylor arrive as a swap for Ayew, does that push Amavi up to the left wing position or is this just to creation competition for the left back spot?

  36. Paul Pears

    Is the surprise signing, Ollie Watkins from Exeter, as this has not been mentioned over the weekend, and he is a lad who is being tracked by the big clubs, as is Jacob Bedeaux, who is having his medical today.

  39. Heroes-and-Villans

    just trying to work out what we need and what id do?! factor in he wants 442

    Johnson
    Bree Chester Baker Amavi
    Adomah Lansbury Hourihan The Viking
    Kodjer Rhodes

    Taylor
    baue the young cb
    mystery man?!
    Id bet a winger

  41. DarrenO

    Whoever it is has to improve the squad/first team based on 4-4-2, i’d say it’s a striker in terms of where we need to get stronger given Rhodes is only trickling along in the background and we need someone in that position. If not then it’s just cover/competition for either Adomah or central defender as we only have Elphick and ahem Richards

  42. James Gill

    John l
    tried again today just no login in for me so if you can transfer this for me be much appreciated

    STEAMER
    Although i never met Gary [Steamer] Haddon his sad passing has left a massive hole in my life, his witty banter of all things Villa, stories of old, capers and stunts of the steamer gang. and his general warm welcome for all the newcomers on this site.

    R I P mate gone but never forgotten

    James Gill

  43. runtings

    JL excellent assessment for the leader – this has surely been the best window in a long time for us

    I also can’t login to the tribute page but not sure if it is possible to add the tributes that have been left via Matt’s recent tribute post

    Hope the mystery man is a striker –

  45. DarrenO

    JG I’ve added that on your behalf.

    In addition, the remembrance page remains free until April 22, it would be worth copying and pasting the tributes at some stage on to the article for want of a better word that Matt wrote about Steamer

  47. Paul Pears

    I still reckon that the mystery signing will be Ollie Watkins for around £2 to £3 million, as he has scored SEVEN goals and had 5 assists in Exeter’s last nine games helping them to shoot up the table towards the play-offs, and not much has been mentioned in the press, and it would break Exeter’s largest ever transfer fee of £1.75 million .

  48. Paul Pears

    He is doing the business in a man;s world at 18years old, and he is best suited to sitting just behind the striker, perfect for Kodjia, and would be a vast improvement on Jack.

    We could always then loan Jack to Exeter for the rest of the season…

  50. Mark King

    All makes me wonder who’s pulling the strings and what tune we are playing? Is round buying to a format as xia has suggested he’s been working on this for months or is it Bruce as nobody at the club to my knowledge has mentioned him.

    As jl mentioned the new players seem more like multitaskers than one trick ponies like Westwood or bacuna. Maybe this is the new era of flexibility until we settle on a ethos?

  51. James Gill

    mark k
    as long as its not paddy riley doing the buying or fox giving the contracts,that sounds familiar
    after mcleish anyone better ,lambert ,sherwood same
    players same
    faulkner fox
    deadly lerner
    please can we get off this merry go round
    just imagine the noise tomorrow night spud goes with hutton westwood bacuna and gabby

  54. DarrenO

    PP, that would likely be a buy with a loan back, Exeter won’t want to lose him at this time given how well he is doing for them, i’d say it’s a bigger deal than that.

    Too late for the Brentford game at this point anyway.

  55. Paul Pears

    Main formula is simple,

    1 Preferably British
    2 Must speak and understand english
    3 Must have enthusiasm, fully fit, and want to improve their game
    4 Must have potential
    5 Must be versatile
    6 Must have the desire to help Villa back to greatness
    7 Must have the potential of a good sell on value.

    Villa will not buy anymore players looking for their last pay chech……Hooray…!!!!

  56. Paul Pears

    DOR,

    I agree that would be best for Exeter, and possibly Villa, and I do hope we do it.

    We could be much closer on Rhodes, but the impression Bruce gave at the conference is that his name has not come up with regard to Villa….

    Maybe one of the Arsenal strikers coming on loan?????

  61. IanG

    Hi all,
    It’s all a mystery to me.
    It seems they might be waiting to see what happens for a striker before deciding a loan for Davis.
    No Hogan, looking forward to Brentford.

    Nothing under the sun is new as they say, but the media do like to find a new lie /angle to start a witch hunt.
    In the 50’s we had the people to avoid pointed out, & told to be careful with strangers.
    It was never graphic & there was no need because it was easy to see [as it is now].
    The problem seems to be more filling the kid’s heads with self importance so their brains trickle out of their ears & they fly the victim flag.

  63. John Lerwill

    Steamer

    Thanks Darren, for adding James’s message. Appreciated. There’s no chance that the messages will be lost, btw.

    Runtings … if you can’t login to the memorial page can you please put your message on this page and I (or Darren!) will transfer it?

    Everyone…

    Please stop by and leave a message, and please notify all who may be interested.

    The webpage is: https://www.partingwishes.com/memorials/Steamer

  67. James Gill

    don t understand the taylor signing , him and 5m for ayew ,why are we giving our strikers away for little money, we loaned out cissko a left back, taylor will be getting a 3.5 year contract yet he is now only 3rd choice at a bad swansea team who look like they will be going down, strange one me thinks

  69. John Lerwill

    Re: Taylor

    Maybe he just doesn’t fit under that manager at Swansea!

    And this is the Championship he’s coming into which may be a better level for him.

    We’ll soon see I suppose.

  70. James Gill

    not overly fond of ayew,but last season he looked decent in some games until the fat fraud made a reappearance , if we are buying players would rather see the like of bree young and a prospect rather than taylor and even rhodes for that matter, the doc was promising 25m for january not seeing it yet, not criticising the doc but times saying nothing is best answer

  71. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    They – are the birmingham mail! Make of it what you will!!

    Drs latest tweet making my head hurt! No idea whats going on.

    Westy linked to burnlry and we are linked to long, hernandez, and hogan! Be glad when windows shut!!

  72. Paul Pears

    Getting very weird,,,,

    Not likely to sign Rhodes, Watkins is now a no no….but Taylor is because of his performance for Wales, comes from the home countries, connections to Chester playing for Wales, and Amavi will probably move on, as with Ayew, and then the whole of the French connection will be gone…..

    Bruce seems to be interested in having a group of hardmen, more like the old Leeds Utd. and then he feels that he has more of a chance of winning in the Championship.

  73. Paul Pears

    What happened to the recent whisper that RHM is now ready to sign a contract….perhaps that may have some bearing on why we are not signing anymore and looking toward our own youth development….

  74. Heroes-and-Villans

    No drama with the ayew deal. Deal worth 8.5 mill we get 5 cash and taylor valued at 3.5. Ive always liked taylor and the swans rb angle. Before now swans have always been fairly decent. Seen alot of hem on tele over the years and taylor seems ok. Be a good squad player. Ayew just frustated the hell out of me. Got talent but is a bit of a idiot. Rmember him going on strike to get to villa. His old man said jordan the better ability of the 2 bros but andre more prof and dedicated. Sums his move up by the fact that i dont care he is going

  77. James Gill

    andrew
    we paid 12m ross, 15m kodja and sell ayew for 8.5 m rudi 6m
    2 players that only scored in championship
    compared to 2 players that got 5/6 in premier ship

  78. Heroes-and-Villans

    you never know with transfers. 12 mill for ross looks stupid now but look at his goal scoring record. Thought worth it. But in summer i thought 15 for kodgr loads but turns out good buy! Am sure we will be saying same for some of the current batch!

    5 mill for westy hough is genius!! We made a 3 mil profit 🙂

  84. DarrenO

    Hi JL

    the below is on the page you set up, just concerned that post April they get removed, might be worth capturing on here as well, just in case

    Warning: This memorial will expire April 22, 2017 .
    Keep it online (and remove this warning) for another year for only $11.00 CAD

    Round/Bruce and co will be busy today and that with a match to play. Can’t wait to see the line up and how we will play and whether the curse of mediocrity is removed by the new arrivals.

    Secretly hoping for Long/Brady/Keane as the secret arrival, but that’s my Irish bias coming out 🙂

    UTV

  85. DarrenO

    Happy to see Ayew leave, he’s absolutely flattered to deceive, entirely selfish in possession and isn’t a player that I’d be desperate to hold onto. Taylor coming the other way is great business, an international left back with defensive abilities that will push Amavi who’s had no real competition for the spot and if we don’t get promoted via the play-offs (if we get one of those spots), Amavi won’t be a great loss to the club either because we’ll have Taylor, there’s undoubted potential for Amavi and he’ll play at a high level but if we got 25m in the summer that would boost our coffers and allow us to sign another left back to compete with Taylor anyway. The one moneyball success story.

    Hogan if we win the race would be a great signing to pair upfront with Kodiga and given our forward thinking midfield, the supply, support and the goals will improve no end.

    Not sure why Bruce is continuing to go public on McCormack, he’s already decided to rehabilitate Gabby, so has history in reconciling a player to a club, so why not keep any apology requirements in house as again with the new forward thinking midfield, McCormack would thrive in the future.

    If Westwood does leave this window, my thoughts will always be what a professional, despite adversity, despite being scapegoated for all of Aston Villa’s midfield issues, he continued to do his best. In too many games, his best wan’t good enough but he joined Villa while we were in the mire and Lerner’s mismanagement put paid to seeing anything else but reactive performances as opposed to the controlling midfield we need , he clearly suffered the most in relegation mentally as this league would have been ideal for him in other circumstances.

  89. Paul Pears

    DOR,

    Looks about right, and Amavi may well end up on the bench with Taylor about to sign, having passed his medical.
    Really hope we get Hogan if his knee problems are over.

    Could be Gabby’s last chance tonight, as Kodjia not playing before the weekend.

  92. Archie

    Looks like Hogans on his way to Aston Villa £15m……wow!
    Hogan and Kodjer up front , lets hope out new mid field can supply the bullets!
    Archie

  93. DarrenO

    so 4-4-2 for the weekend
    Johnstone
    Bree, Chester, Baker, Amavi
    Adomah, Hourihane, Lansbury, Bjarnason
    Kodija, Hogan

    Bench
    Hutton, Taylor, Elphick, Jedinak, Grealish, Green, Agbonlahor

  94. Paul Pears

    DOR,

    Gabby has torn a muscle in training, so he is no longer available, and makes the Hogan deal more crucial, and Amavi may still go on a deal back to France…..

    Bedeaux should be announced soon, and then loaned back.

  95. Paul Pears

    By the end of this window the RDM influence will have almost gone, the french connection will be gone, the Paul Lambert influence will be gone, as will the Houllier and McCleish inputs, and Bruce will have a completely new team signed in a January window…..totally unheard of before…

    It is also looking very exciting with r=the blend of players that have been signed…and most of the remainers are ex Villa youngsters….Gabby, JG, Baker, Green, Gardner and Davies.

    Westwood has completed his medical at Burnley. Hope he has a great career there. He deserves it.

  101. Mark King

    Can’t help but think back to the summer when the new players looked decent, Its all very well grabbing players that are playing well in their teams but they are being dumped into Our team. Seems to me that has been the ingredient missing the chef, lest hope the Round Bruce combo does the trick now we have half a squad of captains. On paper looks good but been there before 🙂

  102. Heroes-and-Villans

    James

    Your not wrong. Stability is now key. Hopefull that we seem to have got a side in this window and can now bed them in withouht much work in the summer. get a head start on others.

    Mark

    Yeah we have been here before, the one vital thing is now on the pitch!

    All my excitement now for Hogan was same when we signed mccormack!!

  103. James Gill

    mark k
    to me last summer jedi signing was too little to late,we needed midfielders then and for some reason they didnt come,delaet injury was another blow
    the signings up to taylor would have done me plus bruce putting his dummy back in with ross finally we have a rb and midfield to support ross but no bruce is going to play who tonight up front?

  106. Heroes-and-Villans

    as fans we have a lot of hope and it’s very hard not to get excited by signings and think positive.

    Its up to the management to get it right though. To think of our midfield in the summer and for rdm to think jedi and tisc are up to and enough is shocking. Little things like bruce saying we need to improve set pieces ad that’s what hourihan can bring, and Lansbury, bringing a bit of confidence and swagger in the middle all seems a lot better and thought out.

    I hope.

  110. James Gill

    mark k
    someone posted earlier kodja wasn t playing to weekend

    andrew
    while bruce picks gabby he has no defence, and if there are problems should have been kept inhouse not papers, what other chairman is going to take a chance on him
    plus hogan at up to 15m and letting ayew go for 8.5 strange

  115. DarrenO

    Look at the age profile of our new signings, all on the upward curve learning wise, all eager to progress and all with the potential to sell at higher rates than bought bar maybe Kodija and Hogan but the other side of that coin is that Dr.T was prepared to dig deep to pay what was required.

    Still dream of seeing Dr.T let loose with a prem level player budget, he’d enjoy it as much as us.

    Again even if we don’t go up and maybe lose Amavi in the summer, what a team to have put together in one window and the potential for stability and dominating next season, with Newcastle gone and some very poor teams relegated, the future is bright.

    UTV

  118. Paul Pears

    Deal for Hogan is £9million rising to £12 million. Talk of Rhodes still coming on loan….

    RCM must be a problem when his team mates at Fulham refused to accept him back…How did RDM and his recruiters not know that he was a problematic player….something Villa just did not need.

  121. James Gill

    dor
    ayew got 7 goals last season in worst side to play in pl, just comparing the price to going rates for a pl striker we seem to still be paying over the top hogan had good year but so did vardy last year

  123. Paul Pears

    JG,

    Most of Hogan’s goals are this season, as he was injured last season, and against our current oppostion. He is also a good clubman and only 24yrs old.

    Bruce struggles to speak english and deffo does not speak french….hence the exit of the last few left…!!!

  126. DarrenO

    JG

    Last year means nothing now, Ayew did nothing in a league he could have stormed had he the desire to, instead he was selfish and wasteful in possession and was immediately in Kodija shadow instead of rising to the occasion and helping Villa, he did nothing.

    7 goals last season resulted in Villa getting only 2 points, one of those points was from a penalty
    3 goals this season, one winning goal from the penalty spot, no loss to Villa.

  128. Heroes-and-Villans

    james

    Seeing as we are rebuilding and mid table in the champ its only natural we loose some players and get others in. Personally think 8.5 for ayew is right and no fussed he is going. Hogan excites me much more and prob what we need more. natural goal scorer. More of an investment too. we could quit easily be selling him for 20 mill in 2 years time!

    welcome bedau!

  131. Paul Pears

    Bedeaux deal is done without loan back agreement, so he will be available to play this season..

    For those who don’t have access yet, these are the shirt numbers issued:
    14 Hourihane
    16 Bree
    20 Bjarnason
    and prob 9 for Hogan.

    Most of Villa’s transfers have paid for themselves from outgoings, so the net spend will only be around £12/16 million. Seems very sound business done …!!

  132. Paul Pears

    Ayew paperwork being signed now, and then deal should complete for Taylor.

    Gardner and/or RMC could end up at Forest by the end of tonight, with Barrow going on loan to Leeds.

  133. James Gill

    andrew
    that was fox idea gana sold at a loss, traore swapped for adoamh. ayew broke even
    we have been down this path with too many managers and players to get excited anymore

  134. Trinity

    DOR
    I agree about reconciliation. Bruce has said, however, McCormack’s behaviour is the worst he’s ever seen in his career as a manager, and it happened while he was manager. Gabby was a prat on somebody else’s watch.
    I was wondering how long Gabby would last before getting injured again.
    Mark
    Yeah I won’t get too excited either until the new players have developed into a cohesive unit. We’re naturally pretty optimistic being Villa fans:)
    Enjoy the match!
    3-1 Villa
    UTV

  140. Paul Whiting

    New players but Bruce still cannot get the basics right. If you concede possession as much as Villa you will lose most games. Enormous gaps between Kodjia and midfield.

  141. Paul Whiting

    Brentford looked like Barcelona going forward compared to Villa. The little guy in midfield with ginger hair ran the show.

    Utterly embarrassing as usual. Bruce will be lucky to see out the season.

  142. John Lerwill

    Paul,

    Too many changes in at once, mate. Give them all time. They did not know one another at all well.

    But it’s so strange that Brentford almost played like world-beaters – their football was terrific – yet only a gate of 10,016 !!

  143. James Gill

    johnl
    did mon not put dunne collins and warnock straight into team,
    aside the icelander hadnot played in 6 weeks it showed ,should been off at halftime ,even with hogan we have no other strikers, sold 2 and railroaded another bad management,
    hutton at fault 1st goal playing all on side

  144. Paul Whiting

    Bruce came into the TV and said that the team did not get the basics right…so what are he and his coaching staff doing all week? The new players are irrelevant…Bruce has had plenty of time now to have improved this mess and he has not.

  149. Heroes-and-Villans

    Brentford were superb, fair dos. Manager a villa fan, we just signed there player. They were amped. You watch em next game, wont play like that. No excuses we were shit and have been but noticed other teams do raise there game. Cant handle it, lansbury looked quality along with green

    Massively dissapointed with hourihan. He is better than that.

  151. Paul Pears

    Watched the game now in full and think that Bruce’s team selection was very poor, using rusty players, and players that were not used to each other.

    Hutton was a great workhorse and certainly was not at fault for any of the goals, first one was Chester’s fault, second one was Lansbury and the rest of the midfield, and the third was midfield marking again.
    Was not impressed with Lansbury and the number of poor professional fouls he committed, as I counted 5 in total, with no real attempt to pay the ball. The team performance was poor overall, but stupid to put so many new players into the team at the same time….poor management.

  152. Trinity

    Yeah, too many changes. But given a good thrashing by a side that were capable of exploiting Villa’s weaknesses.
    Can’t blame Hutton for that one. They needed a win today, never got it. There’ll be heavy pressure on Brucie to get lots of improvement from his squad.

  153. James Gill

    a great workhorse is no good on a football field, if he cant do the basics ,like stay in line with back 4 brentford would been offside
    but again bruce has been found wanting outthought by another manager getting to similar theme for him now 6 now without a win,team look like strangers, newboys have been here since thursday not just rolled up like a sunday league team

  154. DarrenO

    Thank god this is not Facebook, the amount of misplaced anger is dreadful. Yes we were beaten, we should be used to that at this stage but as above, so many players not used to each other did not help one bit.

    My problem with last night was again we had a formation but no discernible system, we lacked a controlling midfielder in the way Brentford had Woods and this has been our undoing all season.

    The team needs to gel, there is no doubt, some of Lansbury’s early passes were very clever but Brentford changed things and took control. I can’t believe Bruce is looking to set 4-4-2 in stone, football is a lot more clever than that formation, putting an extra body in midfield will combat two CMs. If as I think we’ve bought some clever players then we should build a system to get the best out of them, not stick them to 4-4-2, it needs to be more fluid, it needs to pose questions to the opposition.

    I’m basically crying out for something decent to watch, I believe we have the players but not the manager. We need stability so there is no point sacking Bruce but watching Villa is just drudgery and has been for too long. I’d prefer if we went all Kevin Keegan and lost 4-3 than seeing players look so sheepish in how they play, they all look scared, were is the controlled aggression, the passion to win, they all need a good bollocking in my opinion.

    Back on TV again, more pain. I’ll re-state my opinion we won’t get promoted this season but we’ll progress by May and next season will be ours.

  155. John Lerwill

    James: “did mon not put dunne collins and warnock straight into team”

    Yes – but they were defenders … all they have to do is stop players! 😉

    The midfield is the fulcrum of the team, so to put 3 new midfielders together was asking a lot. The 2 latest ones looked lost, especially the Icelander.

    Andrew: “lansbury looked quality along with green”

    Totally concur … especially first half. Pity Green and Codger missed those 2 early chances though.

  156. John Lerwill

    DO’R … and everyone,

    Well, we’ve done the same thing 3 times in the past 18 months … which is attempting to restructure from totally new acquisitions. The first 2 attempts failed, but this one (containing players from near at hand) stands the best chance of working. At least they know the language!

    But it will probably need 2 or 3 games for them to start gelling. We probably also need Jedinak back in front of defence for starters.

    However, the chance of reaching the play-offs has nearly gone – it will take an enormous run to catch up with them now – not impossible, but it’s asking a lot.

  157. Archie

    Well, what can you say……
    DO’R, I completely agree with your statement, stability is needed. Last nights outcome was no surprise to me to be honest. The introduction of one or two new faces is hard enough, we had three in and a youngster, Green. You might wish to include Johnstone as a new face also. We were there for the taking. In my previous posts I’ve indicated that I have written off promotion this season and I stand by that. The remaining games are consolidation and next season we’ll take this league apart.
    Archie

  158. runtings

    We;ll are lads got a football lesson last night

    Tactically we didnt seem to have a clue and the new players all looked lost and void of any ideas of how to both attack and defend as a unit

    there is no doult we have upped the quality but i am having major doubts that Bruce will ever get the best out of them

    What we do on the training ground is clearly not producing good football or even the nasics of the game

    absolutely no chance of going up this season

    thanks again villa for another fan humiliation

  159. Trinity

    Runtings
    I wasn’t that happy to see Calderwood coming in as a coach, not at Villa. Didn’t impress me as a player, and we’ve taken a step back since. Can’t say for sure if there is a connection, but people are asking the begging question, What are they doing on the training pitch?
    If these heavy losses continue, Brucie will lose his job sooner or later. An easy few million quid these days, isn’t it?

  160. Archie

    I think Steve Bruce has done in transfer window whats normally done during the summer. Which of course was done by RdM but apart from Kodjer, Chester and Adoma a lot of money was spent players not good enough.
    In Bruces defence he’s had twelve weeks or so since his arrival to assess what he’d got and give players a chance to redeem themselves or earn the right to play. They clearly didn’t do that so he’s worked the transfer market. I don’t think we can catch up now having lost too many games. So its next season in all seriousness. I think we’ll smash it.
    Archie

  161. runtings

    yes it’s a big ask for Bruce but

    why do players still come to villa and look 10 times worse than they do any where else
    why are the highest players in the league not able to do the basics much less improve
    why can’t villa keep the ball
    why are we unable to move from attack to defense as a cohesive unit
    why do clubs with 10p squads look more balanced and organized than us

    I will be very surprised if Bruce is still the manager next season unless things improve ten fold

  162. Archie

    I think he will mate, and I agree with your observations. I personally think this squad will be awesome next season although it will be in this division. We look for all the world a mid table outfit at the moment, but I see it getting better. They looked a bit sorry for themselves last night, I think they’ll come good, big time.
    Archie

  163. DarrenO

    Hi Runtings

    They all suffer from Mark Draper syndrome, big player in a small club joins big club and is overwhelmed and looks terrible. Add to the fact that there is pressure to get wins from a side not yet gelled together.

    Dr.T is absolutely right, less complaining, more supporting and a lot more patience with this side but there was no public pronouncements about promotion being a two year plan hence the impatience with this season.

  164. Trinity

    I think the impatience has more to do with consistently lousey football.
    The two year plan thing is widely known, but they were striding to do it this year if possible.
    Nevermind.

  165. Heroes-and-Villans

    Runtings

    The way the dr is speaking bruce will be given time. At least till end of next season Id say anyhow.

    He wants stability and support.

    Lets just hope and pray these guys are good enough!

  166. Gareth Stevens

    That was awful!

    Afraid Steve has to take full blame for that shocker. Selection considering the formation was odd, but what was the actual game plan here? I’m baffled! Were the players told to sit off when without possession? Field three ball playing central midfielders, then play long channel balls?

    It was crazy!

    So glad we got Bree and Taylor because Hutton and Amarvi have got to go. Amarvi’s confidence is so shot, he’s no use going forward either.
    And maybe it is Calderwood because we have been dire since his arrival!

  167. Heroes-and-Villans

    It was such a damn shame cause the first 10 was decent! We had players passing and moving about! running beyond the ball! If that kodjer chance went in who knows what would of happen!

    We certainly need to score the first goal. Need confidence.

    unbeaten at vp and the worst away form in the champ bar Rotherham! How does that work!!

  168. Heroes-and-Villans

    sadly agree about amavi. needs to be taken out. The lads all over the shop.

    The Viking hadn’t played for 6 weeks and boy did it show! He did not stop running though! Just needs to get up to speed. Hourihan looked lost, upset about his debut, big things expected. Green could be very very good. big, quick. not many defendres going to like facing him.

    What the hell do we do for sat? for me id go

    Johnson
    Bree Chester Baker Taylor
    Jedi
    Lansbury Hourihan
    Grealish
    Hogan Kodjer

    Tough on green but need more links to positions. Jedi and jack offer it.

  169. DarrenO

    There was no definitive 2 year plan for promotion, it’s always been a case of get up at all costs, given the change of managers and the player investment, if there was patience for a 2 year plan either Garde or DiMatteo would still be in a job.

    I understand from a financial perspective we need to be at the top table but this has been at the expense of building a good footballing side so far, constant first 11 rebuilding and changing managers is no way to run a club. Thankfully there is stability in ownership now and in terms of Wyness down in the background, but there is yet to be proven stability or longevity of purpose from football manager down.

    A check of Facebook and fans are impatient for results more than good football, this is driving the problems at Villa, look at the fans last night, not a peep from them or Sky had switched off the mics, what kind of support is that if you only sing at the start and just get into complain mode once things go against us. Not saying we all become happy clappers but a bit more patience from the stands would help the team, an understanding that we are still rebuilding doesn’t seem to be there.

  170. DarrenO

    Bit imbalanced Andrew, I get what you are saying in terms of the two link players Jedinak and Grealish but leaves us exposed down the wings and not Brucie’s favourite 4-4-2

    I’d go for the below as we need the midfield to continue to work with each other until they click

    Johnstone
    Bree, Chester, Baker, Taylor
    Adomah, Lansbury, Hourihane, Bjarnason
    Kodija, Hogan

  171. James Gill

    andrew
    we went 2 up at home to preston and couldnt hold on to it, and all was mentioned was ross,codja missed a sitter last night no word about it,yet ross header v wolves got slaughtered for it

  172. John Lerwill

    DO’R: “there was no public pronouncements about promotion being a two year plan hence the impatience with this season.”

    I don’t like to disagree, but it was my understanding that it could take 2 years, but that a return in one season was the main target. If we were to look back to the early months of the season I’m pretty sure there were comments made to that effect, but (of course) to keep people focused the emphasis has been on this season.

  174. John Lerwill

    My team for Forest… (Lansbury’s out for that match)

    Johnson
    Bree Chester Baker Taylor
    Jedi
    Adomah Hourihan Green
    Hogan Kodjer

    Albert and Green need to supply ammo for the centre guys.

  175. Mark King

    Well I hope god has ear plugs because Steamer would of turned the air blue up there.

    What a shower and what an insult to professional players, Back to basics says Bruce? Green showed more desire and intent than the rest of the Squad bar thor who despite being unfit at least tried to close down. Are we not taught to shut the space down? have they never passed a ball before? Mr Smith well and truly out thought Bruce and he had no answer, every Goal either went straight through midfield or was due to players not tracking back. We gave their defence so much time to pick passes they could not miss the huge gap between our mid and our defence. At one point the camera was on there half and I thought Villa had left the field.

    Get used to seeing the long ball in behind as that was Huddlestones forte from DM, except Lansbury is no DM. Hourihane is mind you but lets play him out right with his left foot

    I totally agree with Runtingz sentiment, don’t blame the orchestra when the conductor can’t read music or like thrash metal 😉

  176. r0bb0

    Darren, like John, my memory of events is that there was talk of premiership in 2 years (although an aspiration for 1)
    Consolidation in premiership for 2 years
    Fighting for top 4 another 2 years
    And then world domination after that.
    It felt ‘aspirational’ but realistic IF money was no object!

  177. DarrenO

    Found the quote ‘We plan to go back to the Premier League in one year, at most two years’.

    But the facts are still there was no patience in the two year plan given the managerial changes and the constant re-building of the first team. Clearly, the two year plan was never advised to the players or they wouldn’t be playing under so much pressure, pressure they don’t appear to handle well especially given the clubs they’ve come from where the possibility of promotion is not a plan but a dream.

  178. Paul Pears

    Glad to see most on here are blaming Bruce’s team selection and lack of tactics.

    The team last night should have been
    Johnstone, Hutton, Chester,Baker, Amavi, Bacuna, Lansbury,Gardner, Adomah,Grealish, Green.
    This would have been a team used to each other, the same as Dean Smith’s team, and ALL playing for their places with the new faces on the bench, and Kodjia given time to recover from jet lag.

    Bruce picked a very poor team, using a totally new mid field, with no real plan, and yes we were ok for the first ten minutes, and if Kodjia had scored, it could have been a different story, but it was NOT and Bruce had no plan….and why oh why did it take him so ong to bring Jack and Bacuna on. They should have been put on at 60mins at the latest, and it may have improved enough to get a goal or two back!!!!!

    DOR,
    You are right, Bruce will never get this right. He is not the man. If he manages to keep his job until May, he certainly will not be here in the summer. We will be looking for a manger with a proven track record of winning in the Champions league, NOT the Champioship.

    Bruce is a disgrace with his attack on the team, and I am sure that Tony will look at that, when he was totally responsible for last night.

    Lansbury did put in some good passes, but did not like his too many cynical challenges. Refs will start to watch him, and he will be collecting cards for fun, if he is not careful.

  179. Heroes-and-Villans

    Even though what bruce is saying is correct ie go to bits after conceding etc im getting a bit sick of the jokey id be singing what the fuck was that as well and that was as bad as ive seen……put it right!

    Hourihan is a left footed midfielder, likes to play deep. play him there.

    Can see what we wanted to do…only had kodjer up top and Brentford were pushing high line. we nearly got in a few times with lansburys balls.

  181. Paul Pears

    Seems a lot of fans having a go at Chester and Baker, blaming them for last night, instead of seeing the fact that there was no properly organised mid field, which was the real culprit, and left the pair of them panicking a little.

    That is Bruce’s responsibility.

    I also hope that both Westwood especially, and Ayew, show what they really can do and improve their careers back in the Premiership.

    Bruce really needs to get to grips with his team selection and tactics before Saturday, or we are going to be soon looking at relegation woes, and back to the eighties.

    We are looking at some very serious games over the next 6 games, while Derby and Wolves are on a great run…..Lambert certainly seems to operate a lot better these days. Bent still scoring.

  183. John Lerwill

    Paul: “Seems a lot of fans having a go at Chester and Baker, blaming them for last night, instead of seeing the fact that there was no properly organised mid field, which was the real culprit, and left the pair of them panicking a little. …That is Bruce’s responsibility.”

    The main part I agree with … but as far as I can see 2 of his new midfielders didn’t do much last night … they seemed to be in a fog and just not used to the other players.

    In the absence of Jedi (and Westy) I don’t think Bruce had much option but to play the midfield he did … but they just didn’t come up to scratch this time.

    That, therefore, is not really Bruce’s responsibility … if players don’t step up and meet the needs then that’s just unfortunate. We know the players concerned can play but they’ve yet to gel.

    And don’t let’s forget that Brentford’s football was organised exquisite. Perhaps we should have bought the entire Brentford team! 🙂

  184. John Lerwill

    Paul,

    I see that you were suggesting earlier quite a different team: “Johnstone, Hutton, Chester,Baker, Amavi, Bacuna, Lansbury,Gardner, Adomah,Grealish, Green.”

    I can’t much see the benefit of that except the fact that “they know one another”. Bruce wanted better players, so he’s gone out and bought ’em … period. You don’t buy players and not play them, surely? As I said before, 2 of them just didn’t seem to fit last night, but until you’ve tried ’em you’re not going to know that.

    Going by the football Brentford played last night, I reckon that we would have lost with your team selection, anyway! As DO’R has said, wth the addition of the Jedi, we just have to see how it’s all going to settle and gel … and I believe it will.

  187. James Gill

    johnl
    codja goal return is poor,take out pens as well, he misses an awful lot as for jetlag where ivory coast not knocked out last wednesday big teams play in europe on wed /thur then play sat/sun
    as for ross codja had couple chances to square simple tap in

    dor
    i just want to see some half decent football goals shots saves,the 3 words bruce has banned, as for letting bruce sign anymore if johnson ishis idea of a good keeper enough said

  189. Heroes-and-Villans

    James

    Tbf we are a championship club…not going to have the ageuros of the world scoring 1 in 2! Kodjers goal return is decent.

    Something needs to be done re our away form, we cant find the right balance or anything!

    I know some say he should be a st but I think kodjers better coming in off the left or right. not a st for me.

  192. DarrenO

    JG

    Think your judging in the context of having no midfield up until yesterday and now a midfield that has to settle, if he gets the service we’ll get the goal return in my opinion

  195. Mark King

    Can anyone tell me which of our new mids is the midfield maestro? they are good players but when you look at there general play they are all action get forward types, Hourihane likes to play central so does lansbury and so does thor, Lansbury and Hourihane have good goals and chance creation stats from the centre, as a unit I will be surprised if they work together. both were the hub of there teams.

    On top of that Bruce likes to sit deep, none of those players played for teams that did that by choice.

  197. John Doyle

    “I’m not really into tactics,”

    If he failed to cut it as a tactician, the 50-year-old did not seem much of a strategist either. Including loans, 30 players were signed – several of whom have subsequently been moved on – during Bruce’s two-and-a-half years on Wearside.

    Unlike many modern managers he did not coach the team himself, delegating that job to his assistant, Eric Black.

    More recently, his loudest lament has been that locals would not accept him purely because he had been born north of the Tyne and grew up supporting Newcastle United.”and this is the complete wanker you expect to take us up poor old steamer will be turning in his grave sack him and calderwood now rowett or smith now

  198. James Gill

    dor
    wycombe took the match to spurs scored 3 ,did we cross the halfway line 3 times bar centres,while bruce is in charge we wont dominate any match sit back and hit long ball over the top is his style,leeds[2] norwich qpr wolves spurs brentford 7matches 2 goals
    first match villa v forest
    shots villa 26 forest3
    on target villa8 forest 2
    corners villa 10 forest 2
    dont think them 7 matches we could get stats like that same players bar 3last night and westwood missing last night

  200. IanG

    JL
    Well we all need an alice!
    From where I was watching they outmuscled our midfield & turned us over regularly, & bacuna didn’t change that, in fact 2 of the goals came that way I think.
    Grealish at least took the ball up their end.
    They were primed & bullied like wimps [often illegally] & flooded forward all over us when we gave the ball away [regularly], any defence would have had problems with that, & with our full backs
    doing their thing we were lucky it was only 3.
    The sleeping sickness & lack of sharpness [a mental thing] seemed to affect the whole team including Baker & Chester, except for Green & Adomah, & codger was on his own for most of the match.
    Basically we were outmuscled & outfought, then you saw the lack of cohesion with a new unit.
    We really needed Jedi.
    I also am not convinced by Johnson.
    JG totally agree about Bruce, we will see at the end of the season the difference between his mouth & actions [if he’s still here].
    It would be nice to actually enjoy the football, & I’ve forgotten what that’s like for more than a half [if that] before we give it away again.

    If anyone thinks this is negative, I’ve had to calm down for a day before posting this.

  205. James Gill

    ian g
    the villa forest early season match we battered them gg hit post ross hit the bar i think,it was enjoyable, and to blame rdm for our troubles now not on,all bruce had to deal with is ross yet he has called out jack tish rhm and ross all lads that want to try and play football not hoofball yet sucks up gabby, rdm had last season clowns to deal with ,then the better players clarke sinclair and gana wanted out

  207. IanG

    JG
    It does look that way at the moment doesn’t it.
    I can’t even remember that far back in the season as we always fall off the cliff straight after, but I do remember charlie aitken, sid & Denis Mortimer & more, so I must be bored.

  213. Paul Pears

    I understand Dr Tony Xia,

    I also understand logic, but unfortunately, Steve Bruce does not understand logic, responsibility or how to be a good manager, unlike Klupp, who accepts when he has failed as a manager to put out the right team, and use the right tactics. Klupp I can accept, but Bruce I cannot.

    I owe Steamer a huge apology, as he was so right about Bruce, and a so many other things. I feel we should all respect his wisdom and accept that Bruce is a total Tw**t, and unfit to manage the great Aston Villa….!!!!

  216. IanG

    PP
    He’s from Newcastle & played for Manure [a clogger], & on top of that he’s a potato head, what do people expect.
    Unfortunately he’s in place [for now] & he might accidentally get something right, but don’t hold your breath.
    Maybe we should start a book on what happens first, relegation or he gets sacked

  218. Heroes-and-Villans

    So all that money spent in the summer on new players…..6 months later 22.5 million pounds worth of them are now out on loan.

    I mean wtf.

    Please god just let us turn a corner. Find a style and formation and play some decent footy. Im on my knees here.

  220. Trinity

    PP
    “Bruce needs to get the new recruits firing and this team winning now. The problems at Villa go far beyond mangers, but with a busy window and ‘his own’ players signed and more depth in the squad there are no more excuses for this team to keep floundering.”
    MOMS sums it up in these words. It’s all up to them now. Like JL said, promotion is probably too big an ask, however, we can still expect a lot of improvement, right?

  221. DarrenO

    Hi JG

    Don’t think we disagree on Bruce but at some point we have to actually stop getting new managers who want their own players and want to rebuild every window. We need to give Bruce time to either succeed or fail. I’m no fan of Bruce, we were a missed opportunity in the summer to either stick with Garde or get a manager like Wagner who has footballing principles and look at the long term success of the club instead of the quick fix, that’s all Bruce is, he was sold to us as the guy who gets teams promoted.

    Maybe I’m too patient, but relegation was a missed opportunity to clear the decks entirely both in terms of the bad eggs in the club and the development of an ‘Aston Villa way’ that was played at all levels. We should have always planned in terms of two years and never looked at immediate promotion given the depth of problems that Lerner left the club in, off-field and on. We may mostly be concerned with what happens on the pitch but lack of structure in the background, the closing of VMF, the loss of staff meant everything was rotten at Villa and that is not turned around in a season.

    That MOMs article has said everything I’ve been saying over the last few months, if it’s so obvious to all of us more mature minded Villa fans then how can it not be obvious to Villa themselves other than they are clouded by the prem being the be all and end all and the money that it brings. For me it’s not but I won’t get a 100m windfall if we get promoted so my judgement isn’t clouded by money.

    I don’t believe Bruce is the right man, never have but he’s there and he needs to know that he has stability if he is going to progress the club to promotion but still the overriding issue is for me is for all the formation talk and wanting 4-4-2, that just smacks of getting a simple system for simple players to follow, that either curtails what we have or suggests the quality of player isn’t up to playing more modern systems. It also proves that Bruce is no tactician, no great assessor of players and will ultimately leave the club and we start the same circle again.

    We need to get off the merry go round at some point and say enough is enough, let’s really look at long term success not platitudes to the simple fans that will be in the Champions League in 6 years.

    Roll on May when this season will be over and the team will have gelled and the summer can be used to tinker with player arrivals and departures as opposed to wholesale changes. I firmly believe we will get promoted automatically next season but the football won’t be great, it will be effective but to many that will be enough.

    Good football will put bums on seats,it’s unfortunate that the revenue from those seats is far outweighed by TV money so the focus is never on the quality of the product being delivered to the fans.

    UTV

  222. John Lerwill

    DO’R: “Maybe I’m too patient, but relegation was a missed opportunity to clear the decks entirely both in terms of the bad eggs in the club and the development of an ‘Aston Villa way’ that was played at all levels.”

    That’s music to my ears! 🙂

    Yes, it’s what I often argue … the old way of developing from the base and only buying in whenever you have to.

    But we have what we have. As fasr as Bruce is concerned he may not be the perfect answer (I’m sure he’s not!) but at least he has something called experience of reality at this level that our previous managers have lacked … except Lambert! It’s funny to think that where Villa are now, Lambert may well have been a better answer over Bruce. Perhaps the Lambert we experienced was one that was too shackled by Lerner’s ways.

    Anyhow, Bruce is what we’ve got and I expect him to get this lot sorted and that we’ll get promotion by next year.

  223. Mark King

    PP- I picked up on your statement of Trump being impeached Paul I think the world has gone mad.

    Is anyone as shocked as me at the reaction to him basically temporarily suspending immigration from regions known to be exporting Isis members? Whats even more frightening is the media’s push and outrage behind a population being fed half the truth again. The 7 country’s that have been picked out were picked by non other than Obama, the law allowing him to do this was pushed through by Obama, Obama did exactly the same in 2013, Obama and the democrats have bombed the region into dust and caused most of the problems we are seeing along with Clinton there candidate.

    We never saw a huge reaction when the bombing started in the middle east, its all been seen as necessary to kill women and children over there along with terrorists , where is the great masses rising up to stop the horror in those country’s? no lets just transport the middle east out west and feel better about ourselves, hypocrites.

  224. Mark King

    JL- Should of been implemented from day one but so much was needed, such a shame Garde was not treated better and allowed to rebuild the club. All around us are teams using there youth systems Reading have very little money yet stam is doing wonders there, you only have to read about some of these managers to find how sharp an intellect they have, wagner ,smith etc can tell you what exactly went on during a match Bruce I am afraid is not in that class, he may know this league but from what I have seen this league is changing in the teams its producing, they press and keep the ball, Bruces “sit and hope” is a dead duck tactic, once the opposition work us out we are done. We cannot be that unlucky to have bought 80 rubbish players in recent years.

  225. DarrenO

    Hi JL

    All managers under Lerner are absolved of any responsibility for the decline in my book, they were part of the problem inherited when Lerner got burnt by the fact that he had no control over MON and insufficient funds to compete at the top of the prem. His thought process was then to finance Villa to retain prem status but this had the opposite effect in other clubs spent more or better and progressed beyond us, leading us to circle the relegation drain. He had no good counsel to stop the rot, lost interest, handed the reigns over to Fox and we find ourselves down a division.

    The phoenix will rise from the flames but how that phoenix looks in comparison to what it could be are two very different things. It will be Aston Villa but it will become more and more corporate Villa on promotion back to the prem, we are chasing the dollar or yuan as opposed to chasing football nirvana.

  227. James Gill

    dor
    bruce plan for managing is sign heap players 30 sunderland,same at hull and hope some fit in,i gave garde stick last year but it was more out of frustration than anything else,but the doc should have went to him for advice if not the managers job he knew the rotten eggs inside the club
    rdm had a massive job trying to keep players ,shift out players, kodja adoamh delaet jedi came in last weeks of window why?
    watched bit of hull since new man took over, just shows what a good coach can do with average players, ours where the best in this division they now look like novices,

  228. James Gill

    dor
    you cant absolve the managers of lerners time they all took their 30 pieces of silver mainly mcleish and lambert,sherwood came in kept us up but was found out after semi final win all down hill after that, should been replaced after final, garde never had a chance deserved every penny from lerner
    lambert even with selling benteke for 32m didn tbreak even with buys

  230. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    Well spotted point about Obama and the fact that the media are up to their usual tricks, riding on crowd hysteria.

    Can’t admire Trump anyway, but I’d prefer him to be criticised on the basis of facts, not false news.

    Note the alarming decline in western statesmanship, in the US, here and everywhere…

  231. DarrenO

    JG

    I know they were part of the problem but no other set of managers in any other club had to work within the confines of a club that lacked any structure top to bottom. To that end, there has to be a degree of absolution or at least a consideration that they weren’t fully culpable.

  232. Mark King

    Yes JL we the Sheeple are truly dumbed down I’m afraid, never read the medias version of anything as truth, go to the source not someone’s opinion of it is the rule I go by where possible.

    Sweden is in a terrible mess, used to be one of the top social countries, they now have a huge male population vs female with lots of Somali and Afghan young males there. These countries views of women are well known yet they are expected to change overnight to be like the browbeaten males of the west. They have many unemployed young males with different social views on women, no jobs, no wives or family in their future either, the rapes are through the roof.
    Its known that Marriage lowers a mans testosterone and makes men more productive on the whole.

    These people have been sold the dream because we all want to be loving and equal but the reality is so different, like many refugee’s they are low IQ or illiterate in there own language let alone Swedish. Stuck in camps with not much of a future and governments in complete denial via the media. This has been going on in Sweden for years its not just 4-5 years either and Germany is following suit. I’m no lover of the far right but the far left is not the answer either.

  233. Paul Pears

    JL,

    Have read the Vital Villa article which expresses the view that Bruce will do the job and get us promoted, but next season, but on the basis of history. i.e. he has won promotion four times, therefore he must have the ability to gain promotion for Villla. Unfortunately, that is not a given. The Championship has altered rapidly in the last few seasons with the huge prizes to be gained by promotion to the Premiership, and clubs are investing wisely in bright young managers, Karanka, Howe, Rogers, Smith, Wagner and many others. It is obvious that the Bruces, Allardyces, have had their day, and are not suited to the modern, and are still stuck with the old cloggers mentality.

    I do not see Villa winning much out of the next six matches, and more trouble ahead with the playing staff, as Bruce meddles with his new boys, and loses the support of those that were already here, if he has not already lost some.

    We will promotion next season, but not under Bruce, and it will be from Division one, not the Championship. We are now back where we were in the eighties, with a totally disjointed team and a dinosaur manager.

    At least poor Steamer no longer has to suffer this debacle, but I am sure he is watching from that Holte End in the Sky……

  234. DarrenO

    But the problem is how do you source the truth without actually living in every country and engaging with the majority population as well as the minorities.

    All media is pushing an agenda, charities and state sponsored humanitarian orgs are pushing an agenda. There is no truth other than your own life as I see it, living to a moral code that defines what you reap, you sow seems to me the only way to live your life.

    I’ve a few US friends totally caught up in the conservative vs liberal media frenzy and continually trying to score points against each other. It’s easy to say find out the truth, it’s harder to actually get it.

  235. DarrenO

    Hi MK

    ‘browbeaten males of the west’. Can I ask is that a fact or a feeling, do you think the feminist agenda of equality of treatment has meant men are no longer the men of old or do you think that modern(western) man is exactly that modern in his approach to women and no longer solely concerned with being a hunter/gatherer.

    Interested to hear your opinion.

  237. Paul Pears

    DOR and MK,

    Excellent political points, and the western world is about to change, and we shall not be far from revolution in the near future. As we have so surely helped to destroy the Middle East, the Middle East in time, will help to destroy the west.

    It already has many people who had similar views, now at total odds with each other, as to what the real problem is.

    In football related matters the final squad numbers are out and everyone who has one retains their old number, with the folowing additions, 3 Taylor 9 Scott Hogan 29 Hepburn-Murphy

    An amusing article on HITC suggests that McCormack may have made a mistake in joining Forest, and could end up facing relegation, because Forest is so poor, wheras he would be looking at promotion , if he had stayed at Villa…!!!
    Somehow I think he has it totally wrong, Forest will be in the mix for the play-offs, with McCormack amongst the leading scorers, with Tish giving him a great supply, alondside Assombalonga, while Vila may well be languishing in the bottom 3, with Hogan only adding a few more goals to his tally……I just hope that I am wrong and Bruce will become a messiah….but just do not see it…… another ex-Blue Nose manager…has led us into total mediocrity…..!!!!

  238. John Lerwill

    DO’R: “There is no truth other than your own life as I see it, living to a moral code that defines what you reap, you sow seems to me the only way to live your life.”

    Well said, Darren! But that method does mean you have to put some effort in, otherwise you still become the sheep! 🙂

  239. John Lerwill

    DO’R: “do you think that modern(western) man is exactly that modern in his approach to women and no longer solely concerned with being a hunter/gatherer.”

    Assuming that “being a hunter/gatherer” was man’s true origin!

  241. DarrenO

    Hi JL

    Do you have another hypothesis as to the origins of a thinking man as opposed to neanderthal man more concerned with survival and procreation akin to the animal world.

  242. Paul Pears

    Fact:

    Our inexperienced Italian goalkeeper conceded 9 goals in his first 11 games, never conceded more than one goal in each game, and had four clean sheets…..

    He was replaced by another inexperienced keeper who has conceded 8 goals in his first 5 games, and has yet to keep a clean sheet….

    Can see a definite improvement there….!!!!

  243. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    I have been impressed with the hull chap. Doing a good job under the circumstances.

    Bruces point was they need to strengthen to stay up, the owners arent the best at hull! tbf bruce is prob right, they will go down.

  244. DarrenO

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/lying-sign-nigel-farage-european-parliament-mep

    Not football related but anyway, read this and tell me what you think, is the left of centre thinking just all too nicey, nicey and doesn’t deal with the reality that foreign nationals have designs on taking over the world be it Russia as a global power, Islam as a global religion or the Irish as a global drinking party.

    Is the right correct, that the only way to protect themselves against the hordes is to build a wall physical or not and screw internationalism, global humanitarianism and recognising the equality of fellow man regardless of race,creed, skin colour, sexuality

    Or is the left/more liberal thinking worth pursuing as the right vs. Islam continues to escalate up to WW3 and as a counterbalance to some very belligerent acts of agression or thought process among many people right up to Trump aka the puppet of Bannon.

    Is Islam as a doctrine designed to ensure it is pushed to every part of the world regardless of other religions, moral codes, ways of life. Is this just a variation of the same process that parts of the world went thru in converting to Christianity rather brutally in many instances or is terrorism in the name of Islam a small but significant band of extremists and nothing to to do with Islam at all?

  245. IanG

    DOR
    You’re on fire today mate.
    I read about a feminist documentary maker who made a documentary on the male equality movement.
    What she found changed her whole perception of the issue, & gave her huge insights into the problems caused by the perceptions of what equality means to those involved in equality issues [eg: solely for them].
    She came to realise that the issue was basically skewed to being one side v the other, & due to deeper common issues involved both sides were creating a self fulfilling problem bringing them back to square 1.
    You could almost say that neanderthal thinking is still with us quite strongly, & is strongly linked to animal behaviour patterns, & to be inclusive instead of antagonistic not only gets better results but takes us further in terms of evolution.
    I’ll try to find the article if I can & post the url as it may interest you & JL.

  246. Paul Pears

    Trump has already fallen out with Australia, one of the USA’s closest allies, and appears to just want to tell everyone how great he is, and that he has a huge mandate from the people to carry his intentions through. Nice to the Ozzies standing up to him.

    We are in a huge sea of change now, which is a similar position to the late 1930’s

  247. John Lerwill

    DO’R: “Do you have another hypothesis as to the origins of a thinking man as opposed to neanderthal man more concerned with survival and procreation akin to the animal world.”

    Oh, yes, I do … but as most people don’t want to delve into the realms of what they call myth and want to rely on physical proof then I’m usually hard pressed to make my point! 😉

    However … there are plenty of indications that (for example) the Giza pyramids date from before 10,000 BC (and the Sphynx) and that there was an influx of highly intelligent beings from somewhere (said to be Atlantis) prior to that date. Plus Francis Churchward’s investigations that indicate that a continent of Mu did exist in the Pacific area and the peoples migrated to areas all around the Pacific, to South America, Japan and even India and Egypt, taking with them remnants of their civilisations … and when you then read that there has been a recent find that Mauritius sits on an ancient continent then you gradually see that all ‘myths’ are becoming reality.

    Added to which DNA tests establish a link between the Basques and the Aztecs. That there are similarities in the languages of the Maya and the Tibetans, and the symbolic language of Easter Island and the Indus Valley…

    These are all indicators that there were highly developed civilisations pre-10,000BC and that rather from developing (simply) from a caveman state, man fell from a high level of intelligence to a caveman existence in certain places … excepting areas such as the Indus Valley and Egypt…

  248. runtings

    my humble 2p worth

    It seems the world is in a major mess at the minute
    People being bombed out of the homes or terrorized along with the worst possible things you can imagine happening to good and defenseless people

    the first world countries that are commonly known as third world are living legacies of exploitation with mostly very little money despite the huge recourse’s as they are up to this day mainly controlled by western powers with the east now getting in on the act

    Everybody wants to keep what they have and while some are sympathetic know one wants displaced or fleeing people on there door step

    The capitalist system works for some but not at all for others and it is the richer nations pretty much dictating the fate of everyone else —-

    thankfully there are many good people on the planet but they don’t have the power to change things

  249. DarrenO

    Hi JL

    Is there a theory that cavemen then came from one branch of homosapien (maybe smaller skulls, therefore less brain capacity/capability) and these other humans developed at an exponential rate in comparison with cavemen?

  250. runtings

    dor i think the western man is defiantly evolving into an unrecognizable man of the past — and with the political correctness that has become law within Europe these changes become second nature for a lot of people very quickly

    Only 30 years or so ago we wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a tv add with the wife in a pinny pandering to her mans every needs on his return from work — now a lot of women earn more than there men

  251. IanG

    DOR
    My view [I have travelled in islamic countries for 50 years], & also the view held by my pakistani friends is that most extremists have nothing to do with Islam but use it as a vehicle for their ignorance.
    If they publicly say anything then it gets into the realm of politics & they run the risk of being killed.
    This pattern is basically village & tribal politics & nothing to do with Islam & down to ignorance with a religious label attached.
    The problem that all theistic religions have in common is the tendency to mix politics & self interest with spirituality when the experiential wisdom is not there.
    Scholars argue & practitioners practice you could say, & unfortunately neanderthals use.
    But Islam is more open to being abused even than christianity, due to where & when & how it came about, with conflicting commentaries.
    The wisdom is undeniable, but path language is often contradictory, & without the wisdom it fuels conflict.
    But it is nearthandal to use ignorance to put religion down.

  252. John Lerwill

    DO’R: “Is Islam as a doctrine designed to ensure it is pushed to every part of the world regardless of other religions, moral codes, ways of life. Is this just a variation of the same process that parts of the world went thru in converting to Christianity rather brutally in many instances or is terrorism in the name of Islam a small but significant band of extremists and nothing to to do with Islam at all?”

    It’s all down to people, Darren, and what they wish to interpret as the meaning of the revealed word. The idea that Islam should be *forcefully* propagated was never taught by P. Muhammed but that is what has been determined by certain of his successors who wee only interested in the exoteric side of the religion. Da’esh (so-called ISIL) have even less to do with the real teachings of Islam.

    There are parallels with what happened in Christianity, and, again, official Christianity was wrongly formulated by Constantine and his cohorts so that the teachings became grossly misinterpreted.

    So, as people have been saying for yonks, (man-made, or wrongly interpreted) religion has caused all kinds of terrors.

    You have to delve into the practises of groups such as the Vedantists, Essenes and the Sufis before glimmers of the truth can be seen.

  253. John Lerwill

    DO’R: “Is there a theory that cavemen then came from one branch of homosapien (maybe smaller skulls, therefore less brain capacity/capability) and these other humans developed at an exponential rate in comparison with cavemen?”

    Not entirely (esoteric truth seems to point to more dramatic evolutionary issues), but in truth that is another example of looking for physical proof.

    I am a student of esoteric teachings (which are not based on physical matter but intuitive induction) and derive a philosophy from that to determine my interpretations. So you can take my statements as just my views if you like as they (frequently) don’t involve physical proof.

    Ever since I was poo-pooed at school at age 11 for daring to suggest that Africa was once interlocked with the Americas, I have had an aversion to relying on physical proof of anything.

  254. runtings

    Religion is all down to interpretation and most of the blood shed in wars over many thousands of years was under the banner of a religion

    I t means way of life but the danger of religion is that one can believe one is right and those who don’t share the same view is definitely wrong

  255. James Gill

    pp
    good post ,if our new keeper isanything to go by i would worry about any other spud siggning

    jl
    you have put up couple different sites view point ,are they all on the fans forum or similar not able to havea point of view

  256. John Lerwill

    Islam

    BTW, it is interesting to ask the question “what is the meaning of the word ‘Islam’?

    The meaning is supposed to be “submission to God”, so a Muslim (a similar root origin) is “one who submits to God”.

    The test question then is, “What is the nature of God?”. If we were to hold the examples of Da’esh as representing the true faith then we would have a picture of a rather horrible God, almost akin to the one often portrayed in the Old Testamant.

    Yet if you examine the nature of the great teachers Krishna, Buddha, Jesus and Muhammed you find anything but their belief in a horrible God, and, instead ways towards peace and wisdom.

    The answer then becomes obvious to my mind … seek out the original teaching to determine what is meant.

  257. Heroes-and-Villans

    thanks for link re Lansbury john.

    I think we were looking at wagner very closely but he wanted to stay, even turned down Wolfsburg!

    I wouldn’t be surprised if round does have one eye on the future and a eventual replacement for bruce…more your younger trendy manager ala poch, wagner etc. who knows?

    certainly the noises out of vp now is need team to gel and stability.

  258. IanG

    JL
    There was politics in those groups also [& there were more incl Tibetan buddhists], not in the doctrine but in the people.
    The practices are not so easily perverted, but anything in the phenomenal world can be corrupted.
    All cosmologies have a use for those using them in practices, but scholars [especially historians] tend to solidify them into being something that goes with their personal agendas, good & bad.

  259. John Lerwill

    Ian,

    Oh, absolutely! yes, the problem is all down to us lot for not “getting the message” properly! 🙁

    Yes, what you’ve said is pretty well what I was trying to formulate about Islam, but is true everywhere.

  260. John Lerwill

    Ian,

    However, you have written “The practices are not so easily perverted”. I would disagree with you to some extent on that … and, indeed, there is good reason to say that practise needs to adapt to changing circumstances anyway … which is why the nature of different faiths is so different on the surface – to suite the varying personalities and conditions in different parts of the world.

    What was intended in Christianity, for example, was quite different to that which emerged out of the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. It was that Council that decided to shut out the Gospel of Thomas, which up until then was as much relied on as the Gospel of John. Little did they know that the Gospel of Thomas would reappear at Nag Hammadi!

  261. IanG

    JL
    Totally agree with your last post.
    I remember when I was young sitting watching an old man using a foot pedalled lathe in a muslim country, & after a while he said to me in bad english “I do this for Allah” but he meant to be one with God, as he wasn’t making a chair leg for Allah. It was his way of tuning in if you like.
    Daesh is a monstrosity intellectually using cultural Islam & people’s perception of it to manipulate them, to get their jollies for their own nihilistic agenda.
    An extreme version of reality TV.
    Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, many examples.
    Then you have those with tendencies in that direction such as Trump.

  262. IanG

    JL
    I think the Buddha said that there are 84,00 different teachings for 84,000 different people.
    In the east as you know the numbers are often not intended to be totally literal.

  263. IanG

    JL
    The contemplative way of the celtic church was replaced by the doctrinal hierarchical way from Rome a bit later, which is when the power game problems started in Christianity in the UK, & it’s conflict with the state.
    The advent of career religion on a large scale

  264. IanG

    Andrew
    I hope it gets to more than noises in VP
    I agree with most that what we need right now is stability, & we’re stuck with Bruce for a while, so we have to go with the ride for now.
    But if he was sacked tomorrow I wouldn’t be too upset

  265. Paul Pears

    Finding the non-football discussions on here interesting and also informative. The biggest problem we have in life, is that over 100’s of years the doctrines and histories that have been written, are written by man, and many of the writers, especially hisyorians, have been employed by rulers in religion, politics and royalty.
    I watched with fascination, Lucy Worsley, the other night separating the fact from fiction over the years with regard to the war of the Roses, Henry V11 and Richard 111. It shows how easily how then history could be written to suit, and has continued to be, even in the present day.

    We cannot fully rely on anything we are told, and must always try to find a balanced view by reading and following every side of information put forward. I have mentioned before a book called “An instance of the fingerpost” by Iain Pears, which tells exactly the same story from four points of view, each different, but only one is the truth. Very cleverly written and worth a read.

    We also do not know whether we are the original inhabitants of this earth, and is the possibility that we could be descended from another planet following a disaster in another galaxy. Science is only in the beginnings of discovery.

  267. Paul Pears

    Soon be time to forecast results…..

    Notts Forest 3 Aston Villa 1

    Lansbury to be booked, sent off, or substituted…….

    Or will we be amazed with Steve Hogan scoring within the first 5mins of his debut, and Villa going on to win 0-4 away from home……

    unfortunately, do not see Johnstone keeping clean sheets……

    IanG…..THAT IS THE HERE AND NOW….!!!!!!!

  268. John Lerwill

    IanG,

    Good points made there.

    PP,

    This Iain Pears fella … the surname rings a bell…! 😉

    “We cannot fully rely on anything we are told, and must always try to find a balanced view by reading and following every side of information put forward.”

    Generally this is true – as *a basis*… but the way to Truth is not merely intellectual.

  270. Mark King

    DOR

    ‘browbeaten males of the west’.

    I’ll give it a go mate. Basically the male has always protected the females and children in human society, from a survival aspect it makes sense for the human race because women have babies men can’t and women/babies need looking out for while the child grows. Would be a whole lot easier if the popped out and ran about like a deer does 🙂 Testosterone makes men less risk averse and men are also system builders again down to their make-up so modern society was built by men on the whole, call it a patriarchy if you like, women certainly do.

    Men are dispensable from the standpoint 10 women 1 man loads of kids, 1 women 10 men big trouble on the population growth front. So as society progressed these things are expressed in the man paying his way, proving himself to the women so his genes go on into the future. Then we have wars where men are expected to lay down their lives, indecently women in this country during WW1 were encouraged to give men not in the army white feathers in the street to make them join, no join no babies, no genes going forward. All wonderful stuff for the blokes eh.

    The women have enjoyed certain privileges that come with their gender and men are expected to respect this and usually do. Now since the women’s rights has started women now want privileges given to men, they deem it as equality and never once do they look at the reasons these differences are there. It used to be the man looked after the women and worked and the women raised the child so his wage reflected that. Now the women is looked after by the nanny state and the man who is still at work pays more into it than the women over his lifetime while the women take out more than they pay in.

    Equality does not exist and probably can’t as long as men cannot have and feed babies. From my point of view Women seem to be after equal pay while having their cake and eating it, I have yet to see women’s rights wanting more sewerage jobs for ladies or saying let us fight the wars. So what started off as a evolutionary advantage has become a rod to beat the man with particularly in the west. I think its gone to far and completely ignores and blurs the gender roles.

    Ironically women still are draw to Alpha males 😉

  271. Mark King

    P.s. would it be considered fair if all sport was male and female? how many women would get into the England Rugby side? how many would be playing and winning the prise money in tennis?

    Dor- I think men are desperately trying to find an identity in this world while trying to please the women in our lives
    and the weirdest thing is those that don’t give a rats ass get the prize 🙂

  274. Mark King

    on the football front if I must

    “McCormack, who joined Nottingham Forest on loan just before the January transfer window shut, told reporters at the City Ground: “It’s a true story, honestly. Listen, I’m not a kid, I know how it sounds. But there were factors to it.

    “At Villa, if you had a problem, you phone the doctor in the morning. So I called the doctor about 10 to 15 minutes before I would normally leave to warn him I might be running a bit late.

    “It was never anything from me saying i wasn’t coming into training. Just that I was going to be a bit late until I got the gate fixed.

    “I was supposed to go in to training, but by the time the guy had come in and fixed the gate, it was about 4pm. I rang the club and told them I could now get in, but they said don’t bother – we’ll see you tomorrow.”

  279. IanG

    Attitude problem, same as Gabby when he isn’t getting what he wants – spoilt brats!
    Apparently neither can play against their parent club archie

  283. John Lerwill

    Runtings: “I t means way of life but the danger of religion is that one can believe one is right and those who don’t share the same view is definitely wrong”

    That can be true … but as the inner truth of all spiritual paths is supposed to be the same then there should be no disagreement. If a follower of one path criticises another then it’s because he’s arguing about *externals* not the essence.

  284. James Gill

    johnl
    if you wanted to sell a car would you list all its faults or keep them to your self, bruce has deflected stories left right and centre ,that no one in media are highlighting no wins in 5 no goals in 3 ,no shots on target, 6 man defence v spurs,swap one young keeper for a poorer version ,why bruce doesn t take training,how birr that haddenent played for 6 weeks was fit to go straight into team,why he left himself with only no goal ayear fatty as his only fit striker

  290. James Gill

    john l
    never wanted him and his lucky run proved that it was just luck,his treatment of footballers show he hasn t a clue ,gollina tish rhm and ross proves it, ross had 3 goals bit luck it would have double it,even a team mate to pass the ball codja
    since the start of december it has been horrendous ,fortuntate wins over qpr wigan and burton plus bruce blaming every one else but himself
    watch ross interview on sky yes he has problems but as a club we have been down this road too many times for this to happen again ,bruce is supposed to be this experienced manager but not showing it

  292. Paul Pears

    Good stuff MK, and right on the money, which is why Trump is so popular….et’s get back to it being a man’s world, and treat women with the respect they deserve, when they act as women, and not the local laddettes.

    Glad to see that people are beginning to see Bruce for what he really is.

  293. Paul Pears

    MK,

    The article from 7500 to the Holte and MOMS are both tremendous articles from amateurs, who have sussed out exactly what was wrong on Tuesday night, but the guy who is paid to do the job cannot.

    I sincerely hope he can change things for the weekend, but as both writers have pointed out, as well as many here, Bruce is incapable of change, and especially during a match.

  295. Mark King

    IanG – I think a lot of women are pig sick of it now, some actually like being mothers imagine that. I’m not saying don’t have a career people are free to choose but a lot of our freedoms are hard won by men so don’t turn us into some kind of stereotype trying to do women down. One glance at adverts these days and its the smart wife sorting out the dopey useless metro-sexual male hubby with two incredible children, how does she do it? tranquillisers and anti- depressants mostly 😉

  296. Mark King

    Anyone watching the Huddersfield game 3-1 up against Brighton, over 400 passes to Brightons 200
    assembled for £2.5m net why did we not kidnap wagner?

  297. Heroes-and-Villans

    Mark

    I dont know 100% but reports from villans on twitter even before gate saga kicked off that ross was constantly seen out in the pubs of brum on the lash seem acurate. Factor in he looked as fat as a pig and skipped training sessions suggests summins up with him. Plus none of the fulham lot wanted him back.

    Apparntly his party piece was belching at guests in the boxes after matches at fulham. Charming.

  300. Trinity

    Just thought I’d put my 5p in regarding this topic.

    “The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
    Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by historical context contained in the surrounding text (although many Muslims choose to think of them that way). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.”

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

    It’s up to readers to do the research, and find out the facts and truth for themselves rather than believe specious and spurious claims. I hear and read a lot of bollox on the subject ad nauseum.

    I think it’s a shame Gollini was loaned out. I think he would have improved

  301. IanG

    Mark
    Mother’s little helpers, well there’s nothing new there.
    Some female & male people want their cake & to eat it, always have.
    The article shows that it’s now more about a balanced view rather than an all female pack preaching to the converted, as men are very much in need of equality now also [you can add any current scapegoat to that as it moves much quicker these days].
    This coming from a women who was deeply into feminism, & who actually questioned the basis of it.
    It also points out that things have moved on since feminism a la Greer, & too many people are brainwashed into thinking everything is a proxy war, an ultimate us v them scenario fed by the rich & powerful & establishments for their self interest.
    The only thing that is a true proxy war that I know of is football!
    Noam Chomsky said 50 years ago, that this model of government [currently called democracy] is government by the elite for the elite, & that few promises are ever kept, so apart from the elite no one else ever truly benefits whoever you vote for.
    So all reactions to the social mores that come from this imbalanced scenario will never come to an expected fruition.
    He was heavily into local government as a model instead, but that also an be imbalanced & corrupt.
    Funny world isn’t it.
    UTV

  302. IanG

    Lana
    It also says the opposite in the Koran, & I’ve never had a good answer from a moslem on that except to say that to focus on any outer activity as the word of God is dodgy.
    The quote I prefer is ‘God is, what you think He is is not.’
    It usually shuts them up.
    I hope Bruce improves.

  303. John Lerwill

    PP: “Glad to see that people are beginning to see Bruce for what he really is.”

    And I thought you were the person promoting the idea of examining an argument from all angles? 😉

    I see no reason for a hate campaign against Bruce. I agree he’s got weaknesses, and I had some doubts about his appointment too, but I actually don’t think he’s that bad and as long as he accomplishes the first target (promotion) this year or next then I’m happy to go with it.

    We need stability – first and foremost.

  304. John Lerwill

    Iana,

    That quote you have provided is nothing (sorry to put it like this) but a load of balderdash. There *is* a historical context for most of it and that needs to be understood. All you have to do is examine the life of Muhammed himself – and the lives of Muslim saints – to see that Islam in reality is a way of peace.

    Furthermore, the Arabic language has far more depth to it than our western languages, so the Arabic original can only be properly understood by people with the perceptive cognition to interpret it correctly. Reading an English translation doesn’t give you much of a real understanding of it.

    Similarly, the English Bible contains many errors because of mistranslation.

    Why is it that great men of literature like George Bernard Shaw, Thomas Carlyle and Washington Irving gave their vote in favour of the Prophet and Islam?

  305. John Lerwill

    Iang: “Noam Chomsky said 50 years ago, that this model of government [currently called democracy] is government by the elite for the elite, & that few promises are ever kept, so apart from the elite no one else ever truly benefits whoever you vote for.”

    Absolutely. Steamer would have given you a big thump on the back for pointing that out!

  306. Mark King

    From what I have seen and read I would say whatever the vehicle of the day is the elites will use it. Remember the Green party? now global warming is big business. Unless people have self governance and can regulate there own thoughts and feelings no doctrine good or bad will every remain in its original format. I think there is a lot to the spiritual side of life not in a woo woo way but just in the fact it is generally the unknown, it accessible though through meditation or Drugs, herbs or mushrooms and has been used by many brilliant people.

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is great advice until its taken by a sadist, sociopath or psychopath. These people exist and lots of them are in the SAS, the top business circles and politics, they have to be to do what they do, the ability to get the job done when need be requires a calm mind while doing heinous things.

  307. Mark King

    I like the look of Hogan, He has a low centre of gravity Ideal in football for turning quickly, if you watch these videos he doesn’t look quick but his change of direction leaves defenders flat footed and he always looks up and puts the ball where the keeper isn’t, very clinical in that sense. Kodjia is quicker but erratic in his dribbling and although he usually hits the target his shots are more hit it anywhere between the sticks. I think if Huddersfield had him they would be top, 20+ chances last night 9 on target to Brighton’s 2 and 1 he would be frightening in that team, they are Brentford but a couple of steps up.

    I really do think we tried to get Wagner, right about the time we were looking and for a few games after their form began to dip a sure sign of players losing there leader.

    Andrew that no10 is called Aaron Mooy an Australian on loan from Man city what a player.

    https://youtu.be/6uFOCytCJK4

  308. John Lerwill

    Mark: “From what I have seen and read I would say whatever the vehicle of the day is the elites will use it. “

    Totally agreed with the basic issue here … except that I’d not use the word “elite” as I don’t believe there is such a thing … ‘they’ like to think they are, but are not! I’ve taken the BBC and Emily Maycliffe to task over this in the past! It’s giving them a false status.

  309. John Lerwill

    Hogan

    It’s a long time since we actually had a player with the actual number 9 on his back that is worthy of it, remembering the great number 9s we have had… Hampton, Waring, Hitchens, Gray and Withe.

  310. Mark King

    JL- By Elite I don’t mean they are all sat around a table, there is plenty of squabbling a the top too, there are definitely vested interested attempting to guide the masses for their gain though, how condensed that is I don’t know.

  312. Trinity

    John
    “That quote you have provided is nothing (sorry to put it like this) but a load of balderdash.”

    However, they provide objective evidence in the form of Quranic verses to back themselves. The verses are clearly cited on their site. One can research them for themselves. And we haven’t even started with the Hadiths. It’s all very well claiming something is a load of balderdash, but you need to explain why. You then need to provide objective evidence from a creditable source to support the said claim. They take their’s from the Quran itself. That said, you could just cherry pick nice verses from the Quran, too, couldn’t you? Unfortunately, in today’s world there’s a significant number acting on the negative verses. In the here and now.

    “Furthermore, the Arabic language has far more depth to it than our western languages, so the Arabic original can only be properly understood by people with the perceptive cognition to interpret it correctly. Reading an English translation doesn’t give you much of a real understanding of it.”
    Who said? Until I hear that from an authoritative body of creditable linguistic scholars, I won’t believe it. I know, being multi-lingual myself, meaning is sometimes lost in translation. However, I’m sceptical because if the English translation “doesn’t give you much of a real understanding of it.” What’s the point of English speaking monolinguals reading it and converting to Islam? In fact, if ” the Arabic original can only be properly understood by people with the perceptive cognition to interpret it correctly” Why should anybody follow that religion if they can’t understand it? It sounds very much like a large flock of blind sheep being led to the slaughter.
    And I’m not anti-Muslims, either. I’m just trying to express myself using logic. That’s better than making universal subjective statements. It’s good to discuss these things isn’t it? Even on a football site. Thanks for all your writing, wish I could write as well.

  315. Mark King

    I have to say that as far as I know the Christian church these days at least does not extol it congregation to murder non believers and although the governments that does kill Muslims etc are deemed Christian they are separate from the Church. can’t remember Jesus telling anyone to kill others, I might be wrong but I wasn’t told that at Sunday school, any leanings that way have come from films and media.

    Forgive me for posting this JL no offence meant but while we are examining this line of topic it may or may not be relevant but I’m interested in hearing your views

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx

  316. Paul Pears

    Iana and MK,

    Exce;;ent replies to JL, to keep him on his metal. Enjoyed your link MK for the comparisons. Will have to keep a note of that one.

    Watched several programmes yesterday that had relevancec to some of the discussions on here. One was on India, where I was surprised to find that well before we had discovered India, that African kings had sailed there, and set up settlements, many of the people were slaves, and they also enslaved the local inhabitants, and there are still many African descendants in India.
    This once again underlines the fact that slavery existed many hundreds of years before the British Empire, and we just became involved in what was a normal way of life, and then within a hundred years or so, of being involved, we sort to bring an end to it. Once more slavery is booming, but from the very same people that started it all.

    Another interesting one was in the Indian Ocean and the Maldives where the coral reefs are dying and they have an Island which is used for dumping all the rubbish totally unsorted and just burned, creating an awful waste area in one of the richest tourist areas in the world!!
    There is a small programme from a local conservationist that is trying to address the dying coral reefs, by generating new ones, but the worlld needs to realise the importance of these reefs and how they supply the sea with the natural ingredients to supply the food for virtually the whole of the life in the sea, at the start of its food chain. One of the worrying parts also showed the huge trawler fleets that are reducing the fish stocks in the Indian Ocean. One port alone, had a fleet of 4000 trawlers, and still growing…!!!

    I will write again on the fascinating programme which at long last gave a completely factual report on the demise of Germany after the first world war, and how we reached the point of Hitler becoming Chancellor……Underlines the bit about the elite putting him there, believing they could control him…….just like the Republican with Trump…..

  318. Mark King

    I do get the feeling people are glossing over the status quo as if it was all gong swimmingly? We are in the eu and things are ok for the uk, except people sleeping on the streets, no affordable housing. Half of Europe in the mire. Trump makes people uncomfortable because he is no politician but sometimes things just needs saying and doing. He’s called out Germany for manipulating the euro a bit rich considering the petro dollar but still true.

  319. Heroes-and-Villans

    rhm set to sign new deal

    bruce said going to try something different against forest.

    bruce said he thought it would be fine playing the 3 new mids, he was wrong.

    Experienced manager he is meant to be?!

  322. Mark King

    Andrew- rule number one when buying players know their strengths and weaknesses. Know that and you can fit them into your system to complement other players strengths and weaknesses . I thought it would be fine? Oh brother.

  325. Paul Pears

    MK,

    The last time we had a selfless leader inthe world, they nailed him to a cross and backed the ruling proliterat…..and people are still their own worst enemy….

    Bruce is planning to do something different tomorrow…..actually win a game….!!

    RHM has signed and will be playing/in the squad as soon as he is fit …Dr Tony..

    Still plenty of RDM claiming he was trapped and reported to club doctor, as per club instructions…while gate companies say no problem to disable…
    Similar story to our local police force when they goy locked in the yard and the fire brigade had to release them, as it was their building…….

  326. IanG

    Lana
    Logic is a great tool for getting an understanding of the layout of the land as it were, & very necessary, but it cannot be complete on it’s own as you also need a key that is beyond intellectual logic to anything that is not just linear [this is why the contemplative tradition in christianity & the Sufi tradition in Islam].
    That key is only the beginning of a lifetime’s struggle with understanding the simplicity & Truth that underpins the complexity & contradictions of path language.
    When one element contradicts another, it doesn’t mean it is wrong & the only way to view the whole in a spiritual system, as the segments tend to be used as a progression in experiential understanding as a means to go beyond the ‘you’ that is looking.
    Islam also came from the desert tribes [as did judaism], & they have similar absolutist tendencies with the politics that reflects that & resists change.
    Any form of fundamentalism comes from a misunderstanding in my opinion, & is part of the outer makeup of any religious thought not the main point.
    To use logic only as a means to judge is fraught with potential misunderstandings.
    This is very much understood in the Islamic universities, & has been for over a thousand years.
    It is a dichotomy that has to be solved over & over through time for understanding in the present.
    Looking at things from the extreme is what produces dogma, & is very much a product of this time.
    I personally see very little difference in essence between the modern conservative Islamic reactionary level & the fundamental christian elements in the USA,
    They’re both dangerous for humanity practically, & for our spiritual life.

  330. Paul Pears

    IanG

    Very well put, and agree with your view of “American” christianity, and its financial motivation.

    MK,

    Didn’t watch it, but have it recorded, so I will watch it later too.

  331. Mark King

    On the religion front, when a person murders someone or does something pretty bad and says “god told me to do it” we lable him mad.

    Well two reports today, one of the paedophile ring in Rotherham all Asian men, when convicted two shouted “Allahu akbar” are those men nuts or do they believe they had the right to abuse those children??

    The second was a man trying to take two machetes and his bag into a museum shot dead by a soldier also apparently saying “Allahu akbar”

    I don’t know about you but they are doing their religion a huge disservice and if they were white Christians I can almost guarantee they would be called nuts and Racists or both.

  333. Mark King

    What I would like to hear is world wide condemnation of these acts by all religions and governments and a concerted effort to stop it at its root by those that must surely suspect there nearest and dearest are involved, the silence is deafening .

  336. IanG

    MK
    Absolutely.
    Mad as hatters describes it to a T.
    Would be nice, but to come together is difficult for them as I’m convinced a large percentage of their members are not always really here, & as in all things organisational there is politics.

  337. Paul Pears

    Andrew,

    We live in hope, and that woud be wonderful. Maybe it is time to place that bet.

    MK,

    Very well put, and is pretty much my sentiments. THe programme on the Nazi’s was highly enlightening, as I had always believed that basically the second war was caused through the heavy penalties placed on Germany by the allies, and I was not wrong. What I did not realise was that after the roaring inflation at the beginning of the twenties, America made substantial loans to the Germans, so that they could meet their commitments to Europe, and within a few years the economy recovered, but then the depression and the Wall Street crash came, and the Yanks called in their loans, causing major unemployment of 5.5million people and 5 of the major German banks to collapse, which brought about the growth of communism and Nazi’s. Hitler almost lost out and was imprisoned for a while, but then he was released and regained his popularity and power. He claimed he should be chancellor and was not taken seriously, but in the end the powerbrokers decided it would be in their interests to give him the job, and the rest is history….

  339. IanG

    Van Baston is advocating a trial for a sin bin for yellow cards.
    Also that only the captain is allowed to talk to the referee.
    Should be fun

  340. John Lerwill

    Iana, PP and whoevr! 🙂

    You ask for “authoritative references”…

    Well, you will have to practise Islam to find out a great deal … as I did.

    It’s as I’ve said before … to find the truth on anything you have to go back to the original… and I’ve done that.

    It’s a long story and it can’t be related here. Each person has to find it for themselves, is what it comes down to.

  342. John Lerwill

    Andrew: “Experienced manager he is meant to be?!”

    I’ve recently been reading about gaffs that the apparently great coach Jimmy Hogan made … but they still called him a great coach.

  343. John Lerwill

    Mark: “Forgive me for posting this JL no offence meant but while we are examining this line of topic it may or may not be relevant but I’m interested in hearing your views … http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx“

    Yes, I’ve read through that and I’m afraid it just shows (in my view, note) a complete misunderstanding of the facts and intentions, including the facts (1) that Christianity has been guilty of atrocious acts in the last 1500 years that include the WW2 linkage of the Vatican with Hitler and various scandals concerning priests and the clergy, and the fact that there is a big question as to whether official Christianity is promulgating much of what Jesus taught; (2) that Islam is better assessed on the basis of what I said before … how the Prophet himself lived his life and the lives of Sufi saints (essentially Sufis) since. By examining their lives then a better understanding comes about.

  344. John Lerwill

    Mark,

    I firmly believe that of all Christian churches, the Unitarian and the Quaker movements are the nearest to the real teachings of Jesus. The Quakers are (as you probably know) contemplatives and generally have a peaceful approach and (traditionally) have been socially highly constructive (e.g. Cadbury, Rowntree) when other branches of the church shied away from that issue.

    The way of the Unitarian movement is based on the understandings of Origon and also Arius , who rather opposed Constantine and what he established as formal (catholic) Christianity.

  345. John Lerwill

    Mark: “What I would like to hear is world wide condemnation of these acts by all religions and governments “

    So would I, but since both governments and official religions have all strayed away from good human values I doubt that it will happen.

  346. runtings

    Well done RHM

    the times in Africa before the main religious books where written there make for interesting times – the rule of law was balance – nature and your mother was your god and everyone worked for the good of all along of course with a hierarchy

    An example of how religious writings have vastly changed is the king James version of immaculate conception —- the original African meaning is a man and a women sleep together and the women becomes pregnant and neither the man or the women has slept with anyone else between the time of the woman’s last cycle and her conception

    We know what the king James version suggests it means and it is a million miles from the original meaning

    Another twist on Christianity is when Jesus changed from a black guy to a white guy — the change was on the order of a pope who said he wanted to worship someone more in there own likeness so he got the finest artist of the time to paint a picture of his brother n law and his sister – and that is how Jesus became blonde – 🙂

  347. Trinity

    IanG
    Thanks for your thoughts.
    “…as the segments tend to be used as a progression in experiential understanding as a means to go beyond the ‘you’ that is looking.”
    If by “experiential understanding” you mean empirical evidence, I can understand that because it’s logical. We can interpret and process that using our faculties of commonsense, deduction and reason. We don’t have to wade through esoterical/mysterious language and then put our trust in a bunch of dodgy clerics to interpret it for us.
    “Any form of fundamentalism comes from a misunderstanding in my opinion, & is part of the outer makeup of any religious thought not the main point.” Maybe, but the likes of Osama Bin Laden claim that their version of Islam, for example, is the real deal. Is his point of view any less plausible than yours, or mine, for that matter? His ilk, unfortunately, have a lot of sway.
    I do understand that fundamentalism can lead to (dangerous) dogma and that logic isn’t the only tool at our disposal for understanding the world we live in. Christians, for example, claim, the Holy Spirit is “key” to discerment and understanding the scriptures.
    “It is a dichotomy that has to be solved over & over through time for understanding in the present.” Yes, I guess that’s just reassessing oneself on a daily basis. If there’s no evaluation, there’s just no getting ahead, no growth.
    Regarding the dichotomy thing, the best book I’ve ever read about it is, Nikos Kazanthekis’ The Last Temptation of Christ. I found it a most inspiring book. Maybe yourself and others on here have read it.
    “Islam also came from the desert tribes [as did judaism], & they have similar absolutist tendencies with the politics that reflects that & resists change.” Yes. Western Christianity changed through the Reformation and The Enlightenment, which brought about great change. Islam doesn’t appear to have had any reformation or enlightenment.
    “I personally see very little difference in essence between the modern conservative Islamic reactionary level & the fundamental christian elements in the USA,
    They’re both dangerous for humanity practically, & for our spiritual life.”
    Yes, but I don’t see those “fundamental chistian elements in the USA” waging holy and bloody wars in various countries internationally. Extreme Islam manifested in holy jihad poses a real existential threat to various governments, cultures and peoples. Where, in my humble opinion, they are the same is their apocalyptic version of the future. In short, they’re looking forward to an end time and are striding to accelerate the process.
    Seriously, I do understand where yourself and John are coming from and I appreciate alternative views because I learn from them. I don’t see any point in rubbishing or criticising others’ points of view unless there is justifiable reason to do so. That would be dogmatic, wouldn’t it?
    Thanks, mate.
    Hope our lads can play like a team next hit out.

  348. Canadian Villan

    Afternoon gentlemen, or is evening now over there, very interesting theological debates again today. However, i cant help but wonder how such a seemingly intelligent group that reside on this sight were ever so daft as to become diehard Villa fans, it’s a question i often ask myself, I’m not a stupid man, and yet I’ve allowed my emotions to be to be turned upside down and inside out by this club of ours for some fifty plus years, I wonder if they’ll ever find a cure.
    My two cents worth is that no religion is worth fighting for, my aunt a protestant fell in love with and married a catholic chap and moved to Belfast to live with him. They had a litter of kids that had a hell of a life with mixed parents, getting beat up by one lot or the other on a weekly basis. I visited a few times and the falls road area was the pits through the troubles and i swore you would only get me in a church for the weddings or funerals of close friends or relatives, a promise to myself that i have kept for 40 years now.
    My next door neighbors here in Canada had to flee Bosnia in the 90’s as he is Croatian and his wife is Serbian and that wasn’t tolerated after the soviet presence was no more, so i think it ridiculous to fight over things both ethnic or religious., you couldn’t meet a nicer couple.
    As for Islamophobia, we have lots of Muslims over here, and most are really great folk, i do however have an issue with the full face head scarves, if you cant see a woman’s face, if it is even a woman under the garments then I have sympathy for the lack of tolerance. But the Hijab or what ever it’s called is fine, no different to the christian belief that a woman’s head and shoulders be covered in church, just a different interpretation of a similar etiquette me thinks.
    Anyway, that Bannon lad looks pretty good for Wednesday i have to say, lol

  349. Trinity

    Runtings
    “the times in Africa before the main religious books where written there make for interesting times – the rule of law was balance – nature and your mother was your god and everyone worked for the good of all along of course with a hierarchy”
    I hear what you’re saying.
    The ancient civilizations of Africa were something we can only marvel at today through the great monuments they left behind in Sudan, Egypt and other places. I feel sad those cultures were forced to adhere to and assimilate to something foreign. It’s sad to see the destruction in places like Palmyra, Babylon and the giant Buddhist statues in Afghanistan. All in the name of a religion, when they might just be trying to wipe out evidence of another culture’s perceived superior refinement.

  350. Trinity

    Canadian Villan
    ” …i cant help but wonder how such a seemingly intelligent group that reside on this sight were ever so daft as to become diehard Villa fans, it’s a question i often ask myself, I’m not a stupid man, and yet I’ve allowed my emotions to be to be turned upside down and inside out by this club of ours for some fifty plus years, I wonder if they’ll ever find a cure.”
    Lol. I’ve often wondered that myself, sure, we all have. It does seem illogical. As IanG has pointed out, and you’ve obviously figured out, there’s more to us than logic. We must be friggin mad.

  351. IanG

    Lana
    Language can be difficult can’t it, but it’s in writing it’s all we have.
    I personally think the word empirical is abused like many words when applied as a conceptual projection to prop up our intellectual interpretations.
    If we go back to the root of words, they are more tools to add colour & shade to a larger meaning, rather than weapons as often used these days, which is why humour is so important.
    Experiential understanding is just about the opposite of empirical, as it is more inclusive & connective rather than merely deductive as it potentially connects one to the greater experiential understanding that [whatever the path] opens up our eyes & understanding that is very much beyond empirical or conceptual understanding [the limited intellectual idea that is you which we manufacture to support our idea of what we are & where we fit in].
    As they say ‘every day is a new day’ [start from scratch].
    Evidence is also in this category as you don’t generally experience evidence [unless you’re nicked].
    Deduction & reason are generally used to get us to that point [hopefully], & common sense I find is very uncommon.
    It depends whether you’re looking within your limited self or whether you try to imprint your design onto everything else, then try to justify it by deduction & reason, or just let go & see what happens.
    This is all a great mental exercise, but in my experience rarely gets you anywhere for longer than a nano second as it keeps changing & can be quite wearing as it depends how tight one is.
    Academia is often guilty of all of this, as it always knows better than anyone who works for a living.
    In Christian meditation you alternate between experiencing peace & contemplation [intellectual reasoning] to free you to rest [hopefully] in the love of the bigG [so they tell me].
    I’ve never noticed many people finding all this by accident or by reading new age books which can create a demonic hunger for more that is never satisfied if you’re not careful, & you keep on having to start again.

    Then thinking about the villa is a relief, which is a contradiction in terms.
    Holy War – well there’s Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Guantanemo Bay & more; need I go on?
    Oh & Villa v Small Heath, it’s like a microcosm, the Zulus were possibly the equivalent of the Taliban until the world changed.
    Maybe someone should tell them that time has no beginning & no end if you put all your focus on it as a means to an end
    No it’s not daily assessment, which is intellectual, which is not a bad thing , but renewal through the present experience as everything constantly changes [except the Villa at the moment it seems].
    I don’t know where JL is coming from, & I don’t even know where he lives.
    I don’t have an alternate view unless I crack [like during the last match, I just see what I’m looking at, & interpretation is another matter altogether.
    It can be fun
    x

  352. Paul Pears

    Iana and Canadian Villan,

    I think it is all part of comradeship and the bonding of like-minded Alpha males, and is how the early armies were formed, and eventually in more recent times become movements like the scouts, the nazi youth movement and stormtroopers. the male loves to be part of some form of organisation or family where there is a bond and a common cause.

  353. IanG

    Evening Canadian.
    I just thought I’d say that.
    Oh I thought you meant Steve Bannon for a minute, hang on I’m getting brainwashed.
    Well my grandparents did move from Aston to Small Heath?????

  354. Trinity

    IanG
    Humour is, as you say, so important. It can diffuse a sticky situation and helps us all cope. People wouldn’t be so easily insulted if only we saw the humour in things more often.
    Empirical to me, basically just means learning through experience. I know what you mean about academia and new age books. I can’t be bothered with alot of it I guess the good in the whole exercise comes from the thinking itself. That said, I still think we need academics.

    I wish these people, who claim they’re killing in the name of a higher power, would get a sense of humour and stop using violence to impose their design onto everyone else. Guess, it’s human nature. If it’s not one thing, it’s another. This verse comes to mind:
    They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me (John 16:2-3).

  356. IanG

    Lana
    The quote is a truism & there are many ways of killing, not just necessarily the body.
    Happens all the time.
    Moslems I know tend not to remember that the old & new testaments are one of their holy books.
    I’ve yet to meet one that has studied them, but there must be some.
    x

  357. Paul Pears

    Missed the Huddersfield game dratted Sky had been recording the HD channel, which I dont have.

    Bannan outstanding in md field for Wednesday again….another one that was not good enough….!!

    Youth team live on facebook stream at 11.00am today (gone midnight)…

  358. Mark King

    I wonder what steamer would of made of AVL and it’s latest incarnation? I think we have the makings of a great university challenge team and I’ll make the tea 😉

    I watched an horizon episode about the clean diet which is basically a vegan diet, I thought this could be interesting only to find they had added suspicious music for moments of danger. The scientist conducting the “study” concluded that it wasn’t valid as it didn’t meet scientific standards or contain enough dogma! Well I nearly fell off the settee. He never once mentioned that it costs millions to conduct a scientific study or that the world of science has not got a clue about nutrition as it’s rarely studied as there’s no profit in it. He was intermating that there is no evidence that eating a diet of fresh unadulterated food could help you avoid disease? No, chips every day and you’ll be fine 🙂

    Why does science claim common sense is essential then use none?

    Anyhow, here’s a question. When you enhance the brains neural connections and mitochondrial function you think clearer and become smarter, conversely if you decline in brain function as in say Alzheimer’s you are not going to solve the riddles of the universe it seems, so is greater spiritual understanding just us getting smarter or more connected to something? And does the brain facilitate that happening? Or to put it another way do we stop learning when dead?

    On a lighter note if we can’t beat forest bring the curtain down 😉

  359. IanG

    Mark
    And they claim everybody else who have a different way in or model or aim are charlatans.
    Yet most of the time, outside of Physics & Pure Science, it often seems bad science.
    I suppose it depends on who’s paying, as that restricts, limits & corrupts the result.
    Corporate science.

  360. Trinity

    Mark
    Why does science claim common sense is essential then use none?
    Probably because primates are invoved.
    “…so is greater spiritual understanding just us getting smarter or more connected to something? And does the brain facilitate that happening? Or to put it another way do we stop learning when dead?”
    I remember lying in hospital listening to this strange but catchy music. Of course, the music wasn’t real, it was just a hallucination, but I really thought it was real. I was tricked by the effects of mind altering drugs on my brain. I thought there must be a night club close by, and was wondering how they could be allowed to play their music so loud near a major hospital. Next day, the nurses assured me there were no nightclubs in the area, and there was no music. When I thought about it, the ward was full of the noise of all kinds of bells and whistles. It seemed, somehow, my mind had put a rythem to those sounds. Some might call that a spiritual experience. I really thought it was real.
    I don’t think being more spiritually connected, depending on one’s definition of spiritually connected, means one is smarter. For me, being spiritually connected means having humility, compassion, love, empathy and a high regard for life, the environment and an appreciation of one’s blessings. If that means putting God first and all the above follow, then fine. However, believing in God/gods and being spiritually connected could be different things. What I do know is that the mind is a powerful thing, but it can be tricky.

  361. IanG

    Mark,
    As far as your question goes, my brain has had gaps in it since the 70’s along with my memory, but with a little trust what I need usually seems to arrive, so it doesn’t seem to matter too much.
    I think our intrinsic energy is more important than what we eat, as a high energy can overcome many things, but a good diet aids this, but is not a cure-all.
    I really wonder sometimes how I’m apparently still here.
    Everything is in a flux of change, even sleep is a mini death, as is an orgasm, so you can actually have a look if you want to.
    Me? I don’t know anything but I’m perpetually curious.
    It passes the time with the football we have to put up with.

  362. IanG

    lana,
    I think truly ‘having humility, compassion, love, empathy and a high regard for life, the environment and an appreciation of one’s blessings’ [not just the concept] is being smart.
    The mind appears to create what we perceive, so I don’t think it’s worth worrying about the label mostly.

  367. Clive Evans

    Just called in for the first time for a few days – been busy organising, participating in and now clearing up after my 75th party.
    Now I am getting educated about football tactics or more relevant lack of them, the meaning of different religions and US politics. One thing that has left me confused is that whilst I can fly from Bangkok to Birmingham taking around 14-15 hours and, at my age, suffer no jet lag at all, how is it that Kodjia is granted jet lag as an excuse after a 10 hour flight to Brum from Libreville?
    Forest v Villa is live here so I hope it’s an improvement on the Brentford match I turned off half-way through the second half.

  368. r0bb0

    Mark, you say there’s little research into nutrition because there’s no profit in it. The good news is that there IS now profit in it and the research is growing extremely rapidly.
    Governments and funding bodies select which areas of science to support and nutrition is one of the current poster boys as it is increasingly seen as one means of improving health and reducing medical burdens and costs on society.
    The fruits of this research are now starting to find their way into our shelves. M&S recently introduced vitamin D enhanced mushrooms (hint: just leave ordinary mushrooms on your windowsill and they’ll enhance their vitamin D all by themselves)

  369. r0bb0

    There are rumours that we may go 3 at the back today.
    I’ve decided to give up hope of top 6 this year (Saturdays are much less stressful that way)
    Instead I’m viewing the rest of this season as a period of experimentation so that we can all enjoy promotion next year.
    I’ll try not to be critical of team selections and formation changes because they are all building valuable knowledge for the future.
    We have a good enough squad to gain promotion, the first half against Preston and, even more so, the first ten minutes against Brentford, showed that we are ‘capable’ of playing fast, incisive, exciting football. We now need to prove that we can also be disciplined at the back.
    Assuming we are still in the championship next season I will expect to see us very quiet in the next transfer window and to concentrate on making the most of the squad we now have.

  370. John Lerwill

    Runtings ,

    Over the last few years I have been undertaking a merry study into the history of Birmingham and its citizens, and yesterday, during my Library of Birmingham research, I happened to pick up on a Quaker named Joseph Sturge, who moved to Birmingham in the early 1820s. I’d heard of him before in regard to his Chartist activities, but the following narrative was new to me, and made me realise that it was Sturge who made the final push to enable the true cessation of slavery in the British colonies.

    I hope (if you didn’t know about it) that you find it of interest…

    After legislation for the abolition of slavery in the British dominions was enacted in 1833, slave-owning planters in the West Indies lobbied to postpone freedom for adults for twelve years in a form of indenture. Enslaved children under the age of six were emancipated by the new law on 1 August 1834, but older children and adults had to serve a period of bonded labour or “indentured apprenticeship”. Sturge led a campaign against this delaying mechanism.

    In 1834 Sturge sailed to the West Indies to study apprenticeship as defined by the British Emancipation Act of 1833. He intended to open it to criticism as an intermediate stage en route to emancipation. He traveled throughout the West Indies and talked directly to apprentices, proprietors (planters), and others directly involved. Upon his return to Great Britain, he published Narrative of Events since the First of August 1834; In it he cited an African-Caribbean witness, to whom he referred as “James Williams” to protect him from reprisals. Sturge spent 3 months in the West Indies engaged on his study.

    The original statement was signed by two free African-Caribbeans and six apprentices. As was customary at the time, it was authenticated by Rev. Dr Thomas Price of Hackney, London, who wrote the introduction. Following another trip and further study, Sturge published The West Indies in 1837. Both books highlighted the cruelty and injustice of the system of indentured apprenticeship.

    Sturge found that the cruelty and injustice was as severe in many of the West Indian islands as they had always been before 1834, and as children of former slaves no longer had slave value, there were rising numbers of child fatalities due to malnutrition.

    As a result of Sturge’s single-minded campaign, in which he publicised details of the brutality of apprenticeship to shame the British Government, a major row broke out amongst abolitionists. The more radical element were pitted against the government. Although both had the same ends in sight, Sturge and the Baptists, with mainly Nonconformist support, led a successful popular movement for immediate and full emancipation. As a consequence, the British Government moved the date for full emancipation forward to 1 August 1838. They abolished the 12-year intermediary apprenticeship scheme.

    For many English Nonconformists and African-Caribbean people, 1 August 1838, became recognised as the true date of abolition of slavery in the British Empire.

    More at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Sturge

  373. Heroes-and-Villans

    Robbo

    Same here mate. Posted a while back we aint going up and we aint gong down.

    Targets

    Steel a march on clUbs next season by geling now and being a team. Will only need a few in and oUt in the summer so for once can be settled.

    Green and rhm get game time. Finish top ten and above blues.

    Get on a good run and take that into next season.

  375. Mark King

    Iana- have you ever sang a song then its come on the radio? similar in effect to the phone call that comes just after you have thought I should call X up. maybe you have an Aerial for a head mate 🙂

    The scientist in the program was having a go at a man being sued because he was not a doctor and claimed to have cured some people of cancer with his methods. He pointed out how much he was charging them and that some people had been given hope but died. He made no mention that the mainstream cancer methods kill thousands in horrible circumstances making their final moments a hell, and failed to mention it costs about £80,000 to put people through it, few get better but theres certainly big money in it 🙂

    IanG – Maybe those memory lapses are down to your diet and environment 😉

    What you say about energy may also be that your mother or Grandmother had a good diet/lifestyle. Its known that good genes last a couple of generations but it only takes poor food choice which in turn operates different genes giving a different future out come for you children but more likely grand children. You can change things in real time now for yourself. Nutrition is very personal due to these factors, the 90 year old in the pub dancing with a pint in his hand and a fag in his mouth might just have a relative to thank, his grand children may not thank him. The mind has massive influence on matters not least by worrying less you use up less of your bodys stress buffering ability and allow it to maintain itself more efficiently, it also stresses your microbiome less and those fella’s have a huge effect on your health. If you feed an animal an alien diet it gets sick, we are feeding ourselves many man made and isolated products never seen in nature not a smart move. We also get sustenance (electrons) from light (not white LEDs mind), water if its in fourth phase and vibration.

    Robbo- Glad to hear it (governments and food) although there is no one diet fits all is pretty clear eating crap is not the best idea, for me if you get rid of Grains and sugar most things fix themselves but everyone needs to find what works for them. What they really need to do is stop manufacturers producing the crap they do then the temptation is removed.

  376. IanG

    MK
    Planet earth my son [loosely speaking].
    It was more what I was doing I think as we were all a bit extreme in the 70’s.
    The other extreme was after that I did T’ai Chi for 15 years along with the diet for 5 years.
    Probably why I’m still here as I cut out alcohol,processed food, sugar,red meat,additives & more for a prolonged period to go with the T’ai Chi, & I grew a lot of food.
    It was 20 years ago that I had to stop the practice due to an accident, but it is still with me
    In those days a bit extreme, but then I was a villa supporter.

  377. IanG

    MK
    Also it’s not just what you do but how you do it.
    Mind is the most important, so to disconnect the habitual negative flow is a good idea as it kills.
    Everything is light anyway if you break it down far enough, so to get hung up on method is also counter productive.
    Too much thinking kills.
    Being poor doesn’t help though as what you’re talking about cost money.
    Personally I’ve always liked a bit of vibration, must be a pervert.

    Life attracts life.
    You can’t really just explain all this by your relatives or half of us probably wouldn’t be here.
    We can explain anything to suit our prejudices, & often do, but they keep on changing & we spend a lot of effort trying to connect it all up when it’s usually simple.
    Sometimes it’s like explaining how space travel works to a fish.

  378. Trinity

    Mark
    Yes, it’s funny how those things happen. I think the music I heard was an original composition. Wish I could remember the tune.
    Pretty hard to confidently predict scores with Villa these days..

  381. Mark King

    IanG- 🙂
    a good start in your youth is essential to how you age another emerging fact. Arnie did transcendental meditation for a year and the changes lasted a lifetime. Those neural networks once laid down are there for life like riding a Bike it becomes your go to same as worry does if you are not self aware and that is how the majority live. The more we know the more we don’t, questions bring up other questions. The physical (at least we think it does) exists although all is energy why bother with the it at all, wonder whether we will be having the same conversation when we are not in the physical?

    The mind creating reality suggests we should be able to bypass the rules like gravity or breathing. We don’t have that ability though and the number of people creating at once? Villa can’t decide who to pass to 😉
    Also suggests we imagined the earth before we became manifest bloody hell we are good 🙂

  382. Mark King

    Iana how do we create tunes anyway? I have written songs and I can’t tell you there’s a process although there are books that show methods. Furthermore artists will tell you that sometimes songs come in their sleep or while driving, it’s then a mad scramble to get something concrete down because if you leave it to long it is gone.

  384. Mark King

    IanG- Yes the youth have no problems with the basics, less said the better about football 😉

    on Energy- well its just energy if not organised, to organise it needs information, whether that info comes from Food, the environment,emotions, light, water does not matter, I would assume that the better the info the better the results

  390. Paul Pears

    Yes very impressed with our youngsters this morning, and their interviews were amusing too.

    So nice to see confident players scoring in a Villa shirt. Let’s hope it inspires the first team.

    Have now caught up on the science, history and religious discussion, but it is football time, and the results coming in are already fascinating……

    Back after the game…!!

  391. Paul Pears

    Same old…..same old……

    send Johnstone back to the Scummers…….

    Sack f****ing Bruce……..

    Bring in Sarkic from the under 23;s and give Rowett the manger’s job…..

  392. Paul Pears

    I thought Forest’s goalte would be easy meat with the times he fumbled….but forgot we had Johnstone……

    Elphick not up to the mark….and Lansbury struggling…

    Kodjia being too greedy….only Hogan showing any real promise, but Bjarnason could come good…Bree ok ….Hourihane ok…

  394. James Gill

    its the hope that kills it for me
    hope we finally can turn this ship round
    hope we can score few goals
    hope we can keep a clean sheet, then realise johnson is actually worse than gollina bunn guzan

  395. Paul Whiting

    Despite signing 3 supposedly footballing midfielders we still cannot distribute the ball from the back. Baker is shocking…just like he was in the PL.

    If you give possession away cheaply you lose the game…same every week.

    Forest are not as good as Brentford…the only reason we’re not losing.

    Johnstone is a joke…united 3rd choice who has been on loan many times….go figure!

  404. Paul Whiting

    Agreed James.

    Hard to believe how much money has been spent on so much shit..must be a Churchill speech in the making…”Never has so much money been spent assembling so little talent by so many tw@ts”

  406. OldVilla

    This is not like me at all after 54 years since I first went down Villa Park but …… I think I’ve had enough now. Grealish can fooooook right off, what a complete dick.
    Bruce – enough is enough already – terrible substitutions. Again.
    There is a team there crying out to play the way they should do but it is not happening.
    Another bottle of wine opened and that may not be enough.
    oldvilla

  408. James Gill

    mark k
    its not like hogan or codja dont like playing up front on there own
    grealish plus icelandiclad should been hooked on the hour mark and go to 442 baker left back green adoamh on wings but that would bewise bruce doesn t do that

  409. Mark King

    I agree with Bruce Grealishs first yellow was harsh he passed the ball to the CH his second however when he had a yellow already was crap. Problem is you won’t see the best from Jack players counter attack, I don’t think our defenders/back three left our penalty box both halfs except for corners. Why the hell are playing like we are scared we have very good players??? we should be making 5-6 good chances for the forward snot the forwards creating 1-2 for themselves, Bruce I am afraid is a dinosaur

  410. John Lerwill

    OldVilla: “Bruce – enough is enough already – terrible substitutions. Again.”

    True … but they should have seen the game out with what we had.

    Mark’s comment that we don’t go for the win even with 10 would be OK if we had a side that was used to one another, but this was virtually a new experiment. To hold on for a point is understandable from my corner … given that situation.

    (Signed) “One who has been going down to Villa Park for 65 years”

  411. James Gill

    johnl
    have you watched hull this last few weeks,frees loanees youth mixmatch they look and play with ease
    i have had enough of dinosaur bruce and his lottery bag teams putting out

  412. Mark King

    JL- teams become a reflection of their manager and what they do in training all week, we do not even try to keep the ball, we sit back and invite teams on we are just not good enough to counter quickly, its dead tactic with the players he has. you can’t play your way into the game without the ball. If we have to continually wait for players to “gel” it gets a bit wearing. In the same vain when are we going to see some leadership from Bruce? I suggest never.

  416. Heroes-and-Villans

    We surly have to be getting on the ball more and passing and moving. We sign 2 of the best mids in the champ and still hit it long from front to back!

    I love the look of hogan. Only positive.

    Had enough of making other teams look like barca

  417. Heroes-and-Villans

    I try my hardest to get behind bruce and it was easy when we were winning and the footy was not great but now we are losing and the footy is getting worse. Subs were strange. Cant defend it.
    P

  418. OldVilla

    JL – “OldVilla: “Bruce – enough is enough already – terrible substitutions. Again.”

    True … but they should have seen the game out with what we had.”

    Agreed John, but we had no outlet once our strikers went off, I would have thought at least Hogan should have stayed on as a runner up front. Or maybe he was knackered after his first game for us?

    Unlike me totally but feeling very fed up with the whole thing. Maybe we will grow together and be able to put in a decent shift next season? Think there are positives with the majority of the team tonight except for Grealish and Johnston – who I feel sorry for having been put in this position.
    oldvilla

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