“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.” So said Joe Lydgate, a medieval monk and poet, even before organised footie had been invented!
So there’s nothing new in the world, going by that statement. Football supporters generally simply expect the single pleasure of gaining maximum points from the match aided by the pleasure of supping a can or two of their favourite beer. Nothing else will do as many a supporter will not want to know how long it takes to get from utter crap to perfection: “Get rid of the old lot, replace ’em with new, and that’s it” seems to be the philosophy of quite a few.
Now I don’t blame my fellow Villa supporters one bit as I can’t get down to watch matches these days and therefore don’t experience the pain of being there and seeing maximum points whisked away from their eyes in the dying minutes. Nor do I expend the cost of the match ticket nor anything else that forms the accoutrement of the average supporter’s day out, especially those that haven’t had a significant pay rise in years. Nor the mournful journey back home.
The total experience has been awful as we have seen the ominous slide from grace over 5 long years.
But of course I remember all too well, and experienced, an ominous slide from grace in the 1960s: the return took a long 8 years, and in the end a mostly enjoyable journey back. But Villa’s recovery was initially not aided by the intransigence of the old board who stayed in power for more than 15 months after top-tier relegation and waited until the results had miserably declined and the attendance had dropped below 12,000 before stepping down amidst the fans’ vehement protests.
Then we had the arrival of the mercurial and charismatic Tommy Docherty as coach under a new club management. The crowd numbers suddenly leapt into the 30,000s and ‘Doc’ played out a plan to save Villa from relegation to the third tier. He was lauded as an overnight hero as ‘Doc’ watched the fans stream out to watch the washing on the line. “Promotion next season (1969-70)” the fans said. Wrong!
‘Doc’ changed the club strip to something unrecognisable, bought the young Bruce Rioch for a new club record (a fine step), and Chico Hamilton, and took his Pets out on a gruelling get-fit regime and a hard series of pre-season matches. The fans streamed in to watch the new season but the new season fizzled out before it had started: all the hype came to nothing. It wasn’t too long before Doc was booted, but too late to stop relegation to the third tier.
There are not too many supporters still around that clearly remember those days of the late 60s. At that time, they were the worst years (1963-69) that Villa had ever experienced: not until the most recent 5 years has anything similar been experienced at Villa Park. And there is one big similarity – that once the downward spiral goes beyond a certain point, it takes some Newtonian force of gravity to reverse the trend. Yes, even with a new regime and a new set of players. It was not a far different situation in 1969 to that of today.
In my view the nettle has been grasped more quickly this time. The old ownership more quickly realised that the game was up and now we have quite a different – and more positive – structure in place. We have a new ‘Doc’ with us today, but this one is the owner.
As back in the 1960s era, the inertia generated these last few years is taking its time to be replaced with something to satiate the fans’ needs. Perhaps a survivor of the tail end of those last 5 years – Ayew – is a reason why we’re not making better progress: if just some of his misses had been turned into goals we’d probably be a lot more happy. Maybe the negativity of last year has retained a place in his soul. So why, then, are some fans taking their frustrations out on the manager?
As fans we need to tread carefully. More negativity in the stadium might surely cause the ruin of the whole enterprise.
The Author
John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.Comments 202
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In fact, here are some cheery stats to think about…
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/statistics-prove-aston-villa-best-11905924?
Although i have fond memories of those distant days they actually spawned the most negative aspects of Villa’s history …… Herbert and Loser, i’m amazed the club is still in existence. Despite what Tone said about Loser he nearly finished Herbs lifelong work, absolutely disgraceful mis-management, Its going to be a lot harder to regain any respectable position in the near future, possibly never with the way the various organisations are favouring the elite half dozen clubs, possibly they should take the stance that FIFA took against Colombia in the 1950’s and hand out suspensions to anyone who participated in the non-sanctioned leagues.
Steamer: ” i’m amazed the club is still in existence”
All the more reason to give the current lot (Doc and his team) 100% backing I’d have thought, particularly as the Doc has shown his willingness to engage with the fans.
Done my miles John, wish them well but i’m not contributing any more to Agoalayears pension.
The Birmingham Mail website is a disgrace even if you can get it still you get adverts and then suddenly some knob giving his usually useless opinion in a loud voice, pathetic organisation.
I’m with you JL, fine margins have put us off course so far, Ayews boots have both delighted and frustrated in equal measure. Its easy to see why RDM plays him but it always leaves me thinking what if we play better without him. He seems to get most of our decent chances for a zero return although he has created a few. I cannot see him not playing against Toon and that brings a problem unless RDM mans up and benches him. Adomah should start but probably wont or Ayew may replace Grealish on the left where he is least effective.
Sounds like I have a downer on Ayew but I just want him to do what we bought him for Score if he gets the chance.
ive no real problem with drawing away to Ipswich. Mad Mick is a tough cookie at this level and set out to kill the game.
It’s the last min goals at home that has pissed us off and that indicates it is fine margains. That and not putting out a fully fit first 11 then im remaining glass half full!
Wonder if we will get another rb in Jan now delete is out for a year.
I’m with Andrew about the Ipswich match: of all our many draws so far, this one bothers me the least. The Tractor Boys boast a home field advantage which is a tough nut to crack, and also have been a top seven side for two years running. In fact, I was fully expecting a loss and feared a drubbing. It was the two most recent rubbish draws at home that left me feeling in the dumps.
The Doc seems relatively relaxed about the situation.
Yep…
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tony-daily-tony-xia-message-11909105?
hi john and all
I t’s a results business and i don’t think there will be too many villans bouncing around until we get some
There is lots of hope imo – and i read today we are statistically the best footballing side in the league
surely it is only a matter of time before we get a few wins and hopefully be in a respectable position at Christmas and then get a bit more balance in the side
it is frustrating not getting some wins in and i am not convinced rdm is the right man long term but i still feel he can end up having a good season
U23 lost 5 – 2 too baggies. Tisch sent off
Hi John and everyone
Very enjoyable article John – lovrd reading about the Doc !
Glad Dr Tony has publicly backed RDM : decent and helpful. RDM is under enough pressure , he doesn’t need public uncertainty and gossip added to it .
Our expectations are high , we are used to being in the premier league after all . But then so are the wolves fans expecting great things . On Paul Francs phone in they were saying he expected automatic promotion . But then again some Bham fans reckon they’ll be in the play offs . Imagine if all the midlands teams were
Hi Jen I think there is along way to go yet and if we can upset Toons apple cart this weekend on tv it would be a massive help in turning the ship round or at least starting the motor 🙂 Those top 6 places will be very hard to come by this season but I think we will make play offs if we can get some wins in but don’t lose many before xmas some recruits for midfield and a few loans might lift the second half of the season
Hello all. I haven’t been able to log on with my computer, but can, I have found, with my phone.
John-well timed piece, nice reminder that we need to look at things in perspective.
Jenny-nice to see you back posting regularly.
Matt-hope your health is improving.
It will be interesting to see if Villa can rise to the occasion against the Toons. I still think there is plenty of potential in the team to make the playoffs.
UTV
Mark
You’re right. Beating NUFC would be massive.
Very good article JL, one which encapsulates my own thoughts very well. I too remember those dark days of the late 60’s which were followed by my favorite era of the 70’s following the Villa. And of course the early 80’s weren’t that shabby either 🙂
I think those people who are expecting an immediate return on the investment made over the summer need to take a bit of a reality check. Because the new broom(s) have swept just about every layer at Villa Park – the Board, Manager, Owner, players in and players out, new tactics, new training regime; this can also have a short-term negative effect in that the amount of changes will take a little time to bed in. We arent doing terribly badly as the stats show, a bit more luck, more composure in our finishing and not switching off in the last 5 minutes would go a long long way to seeing us rise up the table.
Living in Switzerland I am able to follow the games fully only when streams allow so I do miss some of the games. But I have seen enough to make me think that there is promise in this current setup and that at some point we will hammer someone – maybe the sobbing toons this weekend?!
oldvilla
Team v Toon
Goalini
Bacuna Elphick Chester Amavi
Jedi
Tisch Grealish
Adomah Kodjia Ayew
Have to make sure shelvy does not run the game in mid.
Great article JL and some good comments here too.
I have memories of the Doc too, not just football, as I was working for a staff agency at the time and recruited a very bright and attractive young lady to be his secretary!!
I feel that some of the problems and solutions are surrounding Ayew, and him having the foresight of when to pass and when to shoot, as in several games that I have gone back to watch, there have been several opportunities in the box where a simple pass would have resulted in a certain goal, and instead he has taken a shot, which was then saved, or became a near miss.
Hi Mark , I agree, a toon win would be worth 12 points for our confidence . Praying it will be our turning point . If the dog heads can beat them 2 -0 then so can we . I’m very tempted to go As think the atmosphere will be good but not sure if I could take seeing a loss or last minute defeat ! Not a good supporter I know !
I presume Tish will be playing as his ban only affects the under 23 games ? ?
Very good point PP.
I feel it could be crunch time with the next two fixtures, lose them both and we could fall apart. The club, despite all the new staff, is very fragile and i honestly feel a relegation battle is as likely as promotion. Despite the bs about leaders, imo its still lacking.
Ayew is the difficult one atm. When his shooting is accurate he’s the best on the pitch and a game winning player . But when it’s not , his failure to involve other team members has cost us points . Villan Gary Thomson on radio WM last night said he was a greedy player and couldn’t continue like this . I like Ayew, he does want to win , but he has been too inconsistent this season to merit starting every game. ITS not an easy decision but I can see what Marc is saying about him unsettling the team balance . His loss of form is t a confidence issue (where benching him would make this worse) it’s an inability or refusal to be a team player (so benching would force him to rethink his decision making so good )
Steamer and Paul
We’ve had radical changes but Dr stony had stated publicly he expects promotion first time . Whether this is bravado or not , he doesn’t talk in “five year plans” language .
Hi Trin and Old Villa
I dud wonder how you got to follow the games from abroad . We can usually get streams and if not it’s usually on radio WM or 5 live but appreciate must be hard for you . Does anyone watch on AVTV ? I signed up for this once and it never worked – spent hours of wasted time talking to AV and then the co who put it on . It wd be cheaper than Sky .
Don’t know anyone who’s subscribed to it, bloggers reckon its tripe. Remember Tom Fox making a huge song and dance about the re[launch last year and it bombed in humiliating fashion, that bloke was pathetic yet he walked away with a couple of million and also nearly destroyed the club.
The new OS is crepe too, all glitz. Also the new strip is a tacky shade of pink rather than claret, all down to Fox.
You folks are great but all I’m reading is “if we lose this and lose that” … it’s all “if”.
Let’s start talking “we will win” and things will be more likely to move in the right direction.
Jenny … the Doc has intimated in the past (early on) that 2 or 3 years is a possibility, but you’re right that he’d much prefer to get there first shot, and that’s what he’s trying to get them to do.
Hi Jenny, I used to have AVTV when I had a season ticket but got banned for calling AVFC a communist state for not allowing uncensored free talk and treating the fans – sorry, customers – like mindless idiots.
Luckily most games I can find a free stream that I can use over here. I posted a good one up during the Ipswich game.
But these days, a bit like steamer, If I lived back in the uk I don’t think I could be bothered to travel, get stuck on motorways, wait an hour to get out of the car park, etc etc. I’ve given my best days to the club lol.
But wouldn’t mind coming over for the noses game!
Well, here’s some frames of the ‘Doc’ of 1969 for your delectation!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7hiNwSPPJU
Clive sent a link a while back. Also use AVTV.
AVTV is much improved since the Doc racked up but the U18/19/21/23 games are no longer streamed live or put up but the highlights and extended highlights are of the fits team. Much less PR bowlocks too
Can anyone living in or near Brum please tell me if the A38(M) is now fully open. The various internet sites simply add to the confusion. I was at the Huddersfield (evening) game and the council closed J6 shortly before the match finished. It took me almost 2 hours to get to the M6.
If roadworks are still continuing and the Aston Expressway is closed, goodness when I will get home from the Newcastle game. Thanks for your help.
Frankfurt lm working in summer lane at the moment and using the A38 aston expressway and it is open l will have a read of the roadwork signs and see whats happening. I used to go upto the top of witton lane and go right onto the birchfield rd and carry on upto the scott arms and pick up the m6 there. You can get on north or south. On A38 at moment only 2 lanes and you have the last second arses trying to jump in as you come to the motorway junctions.
Fantastic footage there John – when the bench really was just a bench !
Do you get the games filmed on avtv? I was supposed to get AVTV free with my season tickets but it never worked so I never watched it ! I’m thinking of getting it .
So is it only high lights of games furst team or the whole match Marc ?
Usually 10 or so minutes depending on how many million chances we have or they have Jen they then have a short version. Its ok if you have to listen on the radio but not extensive but you do get RDM’s pre-match talk and some player interviews
Like the way you’ve turned me continental Jen 🙂
It’s the modern spelling I didn’t realise they don’t show all the game – I suppose sky won’t let them .
Jenny: “when the bench really was just a bench !”
Those were the days! 🙂 … Like standing on the terraces with a hot bovril.
Yes John – open to the elements !
Good article on the effect of harsh critical management and confidence
https://twitter.com/telefootball/status/778493989762633729
No doubt Morinho will blame the press – it’s never his fault is it .
The blokes finished his ego has taken over and he tries to cover it up by spending huge amounts of dosh on anyone who can kick a ball ie Pogba who is crepe.
Jack on crack — its ok to party but hope it doesn’t effect his football
Jose is another old school manager who’s methods no long work in the modern game – the best players are no longer at one club like in the past
Thomas Tuchel now there is a manager that is a fine example of what it takes to be a top manager in the modern game
st75 are you in the country at the moment 🙂 hoping to spend a week in the midlands in November so hopefully we can arrange to link up for a few pints
Excellent link to the Morinho article, Jenv– the man is slowly eroding whatever legacy he once had.
Can anyone tell me why Mick McCarthy’s known as “Mad Mick”? I’ve googled it but can’t find out why.
The Newcastle game is already becoming a watershed moment, lose this one and the pressure will truly be ramped up as it will mean 8 pts from 9 games, which is undoubtably relegation form and definitely not good enough to even make the play offs. On paper the Geordies should romp the game, they are far better than us in pretty much every dept, maybe only one or two of our players would make their side. I’ve been pretty underwhelmed by us this season, despite spending a kings ransom, changing the owner/board/manager and most the team, we are still lacking leaders, look suspect at the back, have a dodgy keeper, a weak midfield unable to impose itself in matches, create or even break up play, and we look blunt up top due to greediness, lack of creativity and the systems employed. If we aren’t careful Shelvey will run the show on sat. Newcastle made up for their defeat at the weekend by beating wolves 2-0, Benitez has been rotating his squad but I expect him to play his strongest 11, they are desperate to thump us as they see us as some sort of anti Christ responsible for all their woes and recent relagation( well twice really) and I expect them to come at us full tilt. The abuse has already started from their inbred fans and pundits and not many give us much hope especially with our injuries and lack of form. RDM should approach this game as a cup final( it could be one of his last games if he loses) it has become that important because of the ineptitude that has preceded this match. I don’t think luck comes into it, missing sitters and switching off in games isn’t luck and poor play and application, blaming luck or lack of it is just masking the real problems and there are plenty of those. A win might just start something anything less and all the early season optimism will totally evaporate.
Lots of positive comments although we still have not had a lot to cheer about one win in eight is hardly the form of champions so it is commendable that most are still very upbeat about our current plight.
It was always difficult not to get caught up in the adrenalin rush ever since the good doctor waltzed through the doors at VP, he set his goals high and some say why not and others will call it the ramblings of a mad man, to be one of the top clubs in Europe would seem an impossible dream and if you analyse it then a dream it is, to even challenge the top six in the premier will be a task in itself as with every season we are in the championship we fall further and further behind financially.
So to where we are currently, first and foremost the jury is still very much out on RDM most I have spoken to believe he does not possess the tactical nous to gain promotion from this league and I have a tendency to agree, his plan to recruit players who are not only leaders around the pitch but also had previously gained promotion from this division seemed to be a faultless strategy but unfortunately this has not worked out, perhaps it may be a case of too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
The team itself looks weak and fragile, I cannot get enthused about any of our keepers, Gollinis inexperience is showing and we need a solid No1 to build a platform, Hull paid £5m for Marshall from Cardiff and I would have broke the bank to get him as he was by far the best keeper outside of the premier.
Our full backs now that DeLaet is out all season look particularly vulnerable, our options at right and left back are extremely poor, add to that lack of cover at centre back and the defence looks flimsy not the solid unit you would expect from a championship back four.
I do not have enough time to cover the frailties and short comings of the midfield area just to say the best two we have got Jedinak and Tish must stay fit and free from suspension to even give us an outside chance to start moving north in the table.
Our strikers will be key to gaining results it may be a case of just trying to outscore the opposition because we will leak goals we just need to bag a few more than them, in Kodija, RM, Adomah and Ayew we possess the most potent strike force in the division add Gestede to that and we look untouchable but they need to generate their own service because the lack of a playmaker is something that needs addressing in January.
SWV
B62,
I agree the game against the barcodes is indeed crucial and RDM must have the team at it from the very first minute, they have some decent players and in Lacelles they have got the best centre back I have seen so far this season, lose and the crowd could turn nasty.
SWV
SWV,
I think your assessment is spot, and when you look at Huddersfield , their goalkeeper, who is only on loan from Liverpool, is the difference, and was against us.
You ony have to look at Stoke and Given, to see the results of having a poor goalie.
We miss having a Barry, Milner or someone of a similar ilk in midfield….maybe time to try Joey Barton for a season…..
AVTV is now better, but it was awful before the Doc took over, and unwatchable.
I am probably going now on Saturday and using my season ticket, after mi9ssing the last two..!!
Come and have a pint in the Holte Hotel Jen if you make it on Saturday..!!
We should have used the loan system during the last window to bring in players to cover MF, and defence.
Runtingz,
Did you see Dortmund dismantle Wolfsburg ? absolute delight, i think that’s 17 goals in the last three games, wonderful to watch.
Tex,
Mad Mick was a nutter on the pitch but if you saw him on A Question of Sport you’d see a different personality, a very funny bloke indeed. I’ve got a lot of time for him since i saw him personally scouting Neil Emblen for Millwall at Atherstone United, a real football enthusiast.
He even took his wife to the Atherstone game.
There is a blast from the past Steamer, Atherstone United. I was around 17 years old when my parents moved to a village called Warton, only a few miles from Atherstone, and I lived there until I was 23 and escaped back to Brum, and a flat just off the Hagley Road, and was then able to be a Villa season ticket holder for the first time.
Never saw Atherstone play, but did see a couple of Tamworth games.
PP, Re; Joey Barton, I listened to one of his former team mates (sorry don’t know his name) on 5 live when JB’s ban was announced, Asked what JB could be like as a team mate, the answer was “not very nice, no actually he’s vile”, so I wouldnt want him around the place. There’s much better players/people than him. So its a no to Joe.
I can’t agree with the end is nigh if we lose to toon, I see it as a huge opportunity to get within 4 points of them and beings they are third how can that be bad? At this point we have the 9th best defensive record with 3 clean sheets we are better than Norwich in second and although I agree a lot of what people say bad luck is bad finishing you cannot say that about hitting the woodwork as its just as likely to deflect in as out and nobody is that accurate, it also means the keeper generally could not get to it, we have hit it 7 times enough to have us level with toon if someone in row f had let one go they might of gone in, thats luck.
I’m looking forward to seeing Adomah and kodjia on the same pitch and hopefully with RM, its incredible to think Adomah hasn’t played more than 15 mins and Kodjia 2 of the 8 games. We need to start taking better than 2-0 into the changing room for our first half efforts if we want to avert the second half Jitters.
Last season looked like this W1D1L6 today we have W1D5L2 surely that an improvement if not what we would like?
steamer yes i hear even pep is in awe of Tuchel and reckons he has taken the pressing game to a whole new level
Steamer I think we tried to bring in a few more but they did not happen according to the Doc
B62: “Newcastle made up for their defeat at the weekend by beating wolves 2-0”
But in the league – the one that really matters – Wolves *won* 2-0.
And that’s the positive that we should be generating I would have thought – the possibility that we can win this game, and not be thinking that we might lose it.
The way we think does make a difference!
Cant see how it can be all doom if we loose…still 100 odd points to play for. It’s only the last min goals that has killed us. We have generally been playing ok.
Same applys to Jedi and tisc Mark, barely had 3 games between them. That’s the trouble with buying so late…adomah, kodji, jedi, tisch all need to settle in. that’s a quarter of our starting 11 needing games and we are 8 games in!
I just have to believe we are going to have a very strong back end of season. surly the set ups too good not too. The drs already said we will get some loans and permanaent signings in jan too!
3 months time the midfield will be fixed 🙂
Archie,
agree over Joey. It was just a little banter and throw away humour…
I feel that we are doing much better this season, and it just a matter of time before we start firing on all cylinders. It really would be fantastic if we can do it on Saturday, and blow away the Toons.
We have had some really unlucky moments so far, and poor Gollini has been involved in three of them, two with his errors, and him going off at half tine, and being replaced by Bunn. Like the Ayew errors, avoiding these could have brought us up to 7 more points, and therefore, as the team and the payers settle, I am sure we will be a force to be reckoned with.
Wonder what that bloke who made the two ‘sob’ banners has in store for Saturday although i can see the Holte sobbing. Unless we give a performance i can see the crowd turning nasty, what is it, something like three decent games at VP in five years ? as BFR said, “don’t tell me, show me.”
Got to get their heads right for the vermin, beat them and a lot will be forgotten.
Dr Tony has tweeted on Jack the lad
“Don’t go wrong direction. I just want clear my standpoint 2back him but also remind some points. If 5-6years ago, I’d say something 2 Gabby!”
“No. It’s not warning but just elder brother’s talk. I trust jack can really learn and be a MAN!”
The “it’s not a warning … Id have said it to Gabby 5 yrs ago ” made me smile .
Steamer: thanks for the explanation about Mad Mick. I was curious about McCarthy because some have mentioned him as a potential replacement should RdM be let go.
And dr Tony also
@JackGrealish1 As I said b4, focus every minute on&off pitch, choose the right type of ppl 2be with.Don’t let ppl who trust u down! #UTV
Mad Mick – his post match interviews are hilarious . My favourite put in here many times after we beat wolves by an Ashley Young dive/penalty. When asked how he felt a lot it he said
“Ashley Young – let’s face it , he’d fall over if you picked his back pocket ”
That said I don’t think he’d be a good fit for villa
isnt dr x great Jen
He’s the boss Runtingz
Also liked this from last week
“We r clear about issues.I’ve asked all2support including pointing out coach team’s weakness and try different ways to fix 4now. Be positive!”
Jen: because I’ve never followed McCarthy or his career I don’t have an opinion either way, so is there any particular reason you think that Mad Mick would be a poor fit for the Villa?
Paul,
I liked your positive slant…
But it’s a confidence sport and a win on Saturday (or even a well-fought point) will be the major way by which this group can start gelling.
An early goal should do wonders for us … so long as they don’t play to just hang on to a one-goal lead for the rest of the match!
Hi Tex – I’m no expert on MM but I think the reason he wouldn’t fit is down to football snobbery from the fans and the players. From what I know he’s a straight talking , no frills manager . His most recent managerial exp in premier league is with Wolves and he was hampered by their budget but didn’t do a bad job by any means. But fur the same reason why AV fans didn’t want big Sam , MM will be derided as being a dinaseur or just not good enough because he’s only been connected with lower teams recently . I remember MOMS (a AV blogger) being on talk sport saying “God help us if we get Sam A ‘ when T Sherwood got the sack , yet he kept up Sunderland didn’t he against all odds . In face he did an incredible job . Like SA , MM hasn’t had the funds that these apparently better foreign managers have had and as the old saying goes, would the Peps and Joses of this world be so good with a 40 mill pound budget ?
I also think the players can have the same snobbery /ignorance . If they don’t believe in him from day one then it won’t work. They just won’t listen : look how our lot were with Houllier . Whilst our current team aren’t as arrogant as the man united players , who effectively sabotaged Moyes prospects and referred to him always as “Everton” there may be a parallel psychology with villa players and MM. Footballers are away from the real world and seem more susceptible to the hype . It’s so important for players and fans to be happy with the appointment and I imagine most fans and players would not be keen on appointing MM. Without that prejudice I personally think MM couid do a job . His wolves team had passion and were fighters I remember. He may not do the fancy formations but to get out of this league I think we need to keep it simple and devise a system where every player knows his job and they understand what they are doing . With familiarity and certainty you will get confidence and strength . MM couid do that and given our quality in squad this will be enough . Look what you’ve done – you’ve talked me into employing MM aaaaaassr. One thing is for sure , MM has more football management nous in his little toe than T Sherwood the great pretender
Paul
Thanks for the offer – I may be taking my other daughter to see her sister at uni on Saturday so looking unlikely at moment
Just waiting for steamer to disagree with me on mad mick
I also think that the sooner RDM kept it simple and sorted out his best team and the formation understood by all team members and sticks to it , we will fly up the table with our squad .
One if Leicester’s attributes (or Raneiri’s is this “Everyman knows his job”. Certainty blocks out the vulnerability . If it goes wrong , you know what you’ve got to do and the more you do it the easier it becomes . Lack of confidence usually comes from newness and fear of the Unknown – the “what ifs and what do we do now “
“Every man knows his job” … and is placed by the manager in the position wherein he’s most likely to succeed, and then is held accountable by both management and teammates to do said job to the best of his ability.
Sounds so simple, really, doesn’t it?
Too bad the clashing of egos makes it far more complicated than it needs to be!
Jen,
Oddy enough no, in fact i agree totally with you, MM & Sam may be classed as long ball but compared to the crepe served up by Graham Taylor and Dave Basset they were cultured stylists. I’d have MM in place of RdM any day.
i am with jen on the mad mick debate — with an owner like we now have i think we have to be looking at more modern managers that are doing great thing tactically — there is a fair few of them out there
We still have some major injury doubts for sat, RM is a big miss he links the play together, RDL being out for the season means we are back ar square one regards RB, it seems Bacuna( not a RB) is preferred to mutton, which is akin to choosing being kicked in the balls or punched in the face, neither appeal. Will JG play, given what’s gone on ?? Will Tishibola play in our very weak MF , as Rupert Bell said this morning on the radio, it is becoming a real worry that in games we have looked as bad as we did last season ( especially 2nd half against Bristol City) and not closed matches out.
RDM needs to put a stop to this rot, if we go into into the bottom 3 this weekend I will fail to see how we can it progress to go from a relegation battle in the top flight to one in a lower division against worse opposition having spent a fortune.
Big Sam and MM at have never had the type of players to orchestrate fancy tactical systems etc . I remember MMs wolves as being very kick and rush physical types and it was horses for courses . We aren’t in the market for getting Couthino types and the league is more physical . Sorry to use Leicester as an example again , but to a degree Watford fits the example too , Raneiri used a system to compliment the players he had , Watford the same . He sat down and said what can I do with the players I’ve got, he drilled the system into them and they stuck to it . Watford don’t do anything fancy either but they know their jobs . They taught Jose a thing or two when they beat Man U on Saturday. Big ego managers don’t consider the players they have or devise a system to fit round them, they expect the players they’ve inherited to fit into their system . With managerial change every two years this is a nonsense not only financially but managerially. Remember Raneiri’s furst interview when he arrived at Leicester. The interviewer said “what do you want to change at Leicester ” he said “why nothing – the system here is fantastic , why would I change anything ‘”” . There speaks a manager mature enough to know its not about him or his ego it’s about the players .
We will see whether enough thought went into getting players to work together and compliment a system , rather than he’s good we will get him .
I am in the middle of writing a sports psychology article for the site to give the usual leader writers a rest . I will email to Matt later on today . It’s called “What is wrong with the Aston Villa psychology and how to fix it “. Hope you enjoy .
B62: Not sure why we’re talking Bacuna as being RB … it’s more like Richards, init?
Jenny: The apparent big criteria for signings at VP was, of course, that the signing must have the character/leadership capability. Although I’ve seen some improvement there, it’s not yet enough for me to be convinced that they have that character.
But perhaps it’s just that it’s still virtually a new team, and some will be playing Sat who have only 2 or 3 matches under their belt, if that.
Certainly, if the players do fit the signing criteria then there should be no problem they settling in together and working together … aided by a win or two.
Jen,
I’m getting sluggish – only writing every now and again these days! And the other two main ones seem to have gone into hibernation! 😉
It will be good to see your contribution … we need to change the focus a tad from old dullards like me.
Jen,
Send a copy to our CEO.
JL,
Never dull and always informative.
yeah your posts are very good JL
Looking forward to jens post too, like steamer says send it to the dr via twitter maybe? He will be open to it im sure
Looking forward to your article, Jen.
Thanks all and John it is to give you a rest not to improve the site !!!! You are the premier writer extraordinaire !
Had plumber in to fix overflow – got talking about where family from etc – Aston Vila came up of course he said “my great uncle played for AV in the 1900s (he was a bit vague). His name was Crabtree ” His uncle still has the medals . I said if anyone knows about him Our resident historian will !! Ring any bells John L .
Yeh I will post on Twitter too
Jenny
JW Crabtree 1895-02, a wing half, (remember them) signed from Burnleytransferred to Plymouth. 78 league appearances, 6 goals, 22 FA cup appearances, 1 goal. Total 200 appearances, 7 goals,
Ref; Davidd Goodyear & Tony Matthews, (1988: p 416), Aston Villa A Complete Record 1874-1988, 45 Friar Gate, Derby, Breedon Books Sports.
Complete with Harvard referencing……you like that 😉
Jenny: “His name was Crabtree”
Archie, you have articulated well with the stats, but they do not tell us that Jimmy Crabtree was the greatest all round player that ever played for England before the War!!!!! The President of the FA (in 1936) said so! And others too…
He came as a full-back to Villa but played as many games at wing-half, and even turned out as inside-forward and centre-forward on occasions.
He was undoubtedly one of the 4 or 5 players that really made the great Villa team between 1895 and 1900, the others being Spencer, J. Cowan, the combination of J. Devey and Charlie Athersmith, and Johnny Campbell (the latter until 1897).
Blackburn Rovers looked at him in 1893 and decided he was not good enough for them. In popped Villa and signed him for a record fee of £250 – then a big figure. The rest of the story is to do with win, win, win … One of the Villa left-backs said the game was easy when playing behind Crabtree at left-half.
Thanks John, a very interesting insight about one the greats who pulled on that Claret and Blue ganzy, was it Claret and Blue in those days ?
My stats indicate a total of 200 appearances but the maths adds up to 100. I suspect a typo by David Goodyear or Tony Matthews.
Many thanks, Archie
By the way John, being the historian you are on all things AVFC. Do you recall the villa losing about 10 or 11 games on the spin, around 1963, second half of the season. Truly dreadful time, I was a youngster newly arrived in Birmingham, my late Father was a football mad Scotsman from Glasgow and an avid Rangers supporter. He took me to Albion Blues and Villa, the spell was cast it was Villa for me. He could never get used to watching a stuggling side in those days and threatened to wear a false beard to Villa Park if we ever got relegated. Well of cousre we did and we still attended all through the bad times. I got older and fell in with bad crowd, Steamer as it goes although he doesn’t remember, good stuff that Carling Lager. The old chap continued until he retired in 1980 but Villa was always his team, even more so than the Rangers.
When he retired I took him on a tour of Ibrox, the legendary Bob McPhail conducted the tour, A Rangers great in the 1930’s under Bill Struth. That was the generation he watched.
I never realised until that visit what a truly massive club they were/are.
On this season, Villa that is, I have to agree with one of your previous statements. It will take a lot to halt the inertia. I am very confident.
Jen I don’t think Sam would of saved us, we had no forwards worth calling and we did not buy any players in Jan. At Sunderland he got funds bought Kone and Khazri both Garde targets and he had defoe and a more together squad. He would have however done a better job than Tim in the summer IMO. Looking forward to your article
Archie,
I’m afraid that 1988 edition of Complete Record was found to be misleading in many areas years ago. Rob Bishop and ? Holte produced another Com[plete Record in 2010. That one is almost flawless.
Oh, yes, that run of defeats in early 1963 was a club record until last season, when it was equalled.
That winter (of 1962-63) was one of the coldest in modern times. I saw a match at VP just before that Christmas when they played on a skating rink! It was farcical.
Tony Matthews knows his stuff, got a fantastic collection of programmes, mainly Olbyun, good bloke for a boggie.
The Uncle who has Crabtree’s medals is sitting on a tidy sum, FA Cup & Lge.
Harvard referencing very nice Archie
Thank you John and Archie for the info on Crabtree . I am amazed at how important he was and so will my plumber be who just mentioned him as if he was a bit part player – not the best player before the war !!! I won’t tell him the medals will be worth something though steamer as it’d be a shame if they left the family . And ganzy Archie – haven’t heard that in a long time . My nan used to call a cardigan a ganzy / thought it was an old brummie word but maybe not as you are Scottish ?
Mark , you may be right about big S , I thought the Sunderland team were
Atrocious at the very beginning of last season but as you say , they added Defoe and a few others . Our fate was sealed when Remi was hung out to dry with AVs no January transfer policy .
Matt has got my article so will probably be up tomorrow .
Heard a villa fan on Paul Franks WM footie phone in / my programme of choice when following tea now . He said he’d take a point on Saturday . Why ? I am all out fur a win and so should RDM be. We need to silence the Gob on the Tyne Micky Quinn once and for all !!
Jenny,
The sad thing is that Villa had such great players yet nothing is available on film about them – so we can’t compare them to more recent greats. So Villa’s history gets pushed aside by all – except Villans! Even the National Football Museum barely talks about the old Villa teams … though they’re very happy to talk about Preston North End! 🙁
Jenny please be careful not to describe Crabtree as “the best player before the war ” …he was the best *all rounder*. He excelled in various positions … particularly left-back and left-half. In fact Garth Barry also played in the same areas of the pitch and was the first Villa player since Crabtree to play for England in two areas.
Just had my usual quick squint on Twitter and found Jenny’s article, it makes you wonder if the entire philosophy of the British style of management has to change. Being a fan of continental footy you rarely heard of a manager going radge like they do over here, i once saw a documentary on that fat clown Barry Fry who was mentally destroying his team at half time until the big CH, Bodley, told him where to go. It seems most things change for the better except for English footy.
Blimey its like all our yesterdays on here, Archie what do you mean a bad crowd I am mortified as will Steamer and ST75 you make us sound like the Peaky Blinders.
But I know what you mean, they were a good bunch of lads who put the Villa first and foremost nothing else really mattered, we were young and worked hard to earn the money to go week in week out without fail.
We went to Middlesboro on a boxing day bang in the middle of winter, the usual 52 seater coach was at the Hole for the pick up about 25 of us turned up, it was the toss of a coin if we went or not but of course we went that’s what we did in those days, struggle to remember the result but I think we won 3-2, loads of trouble walking back from Ayrsome Park to the coach park and to cap it all we had most of the windows put through on one side of our coach, we drove back to Brum with snow pouring through the windows after a stop off in Darlington what a dump.
SWV
Morning all
I’ve posted link to my sports psychology article on Twitter and have been contacted by the Bham Mail as they really liked it and want to use on their site . You can read it on the Bham Mail site and I will let you know when it’s going on .
Our Jen writes…
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/guest-blog-psychology-aston-villa-11926452?
Jenny: “By September, Leicester had claimed 10 points from losing positions: this was a League record. Aston Villa are doing the opposite. They have lost 9 points from winning positions.”
Absolutely, and what makes it worse Villa are doing it in the second tier with players who are supposed to have first-tier cred. Therefore to me there is definitely a negative psychological issue in there, as you have so well described.
Jen, I particularly perked up when I read your words on “visualisation”. That is so important … to be able to ‘see’ what you want to get to … and follow it through.
Jen,
Just read your article and I am extremely in impressed, you seemed to have worked out what is going wrong at VP with our consistently failing team which makes it all the more surprising that all our coaches and support staff who are paid many tens of thousands of pounds in high end salaries are finding it difficult to grasp the problems at hand.
You point out our weakness when we take a 1-0 lead instead of using it has a building block to go on and win the game we actually use it as a tool to lose or draw from that winning position.
In most industries you make a mistake ok fine you learn from it, make that same mistake again and it may be called careless, keep making the same mistake over and over again and it will be seen as irresponsible and some person may find themselves on gardening leave.
RDM be warned take our Jens advice the winter is not the best time to be planting roses and fuschias.
SWV
Thanks for putting up link John and yes visualising plays a big part in mental preparation . Thanks for the kind comments
Thanks also SWV for your kind comments. Your absolutely right about the turning a positive into a negative . I started paying close attention to the psychological side of the team when Houllier was at AV . The infuriating thing is these problems can so easily be fixed . If only I could give a pre game talk to get them in a positive vibe !!
Well done Jen! Very cogent points in your article — we’re all proud of you!
Well done Jen, great piece. Made it in the B Mail!!
Have you sent it to The Dr or Keith?
Jenyy: “yes visualising plays a big part in mental preparation”
It’s intrinsic in spiritual psychology too … which your study forms a part of in some respects.
Thanks Texas and Andrew and Steamer . I sent to dr Tony Xia on Twitter – didn’t know Keith was on Twitter .?
SWV,
Lost 3-2, David Mills scored 3, Findlay kicked a goal kick straight to him, David Hughes scored one for us.
yeah keith wyness Is on there…Resub I believe he is called.
Also The drs pa is on there but not sure what he is called!
Everything crossed for a win..it would feel amazing if we did. Still cant get over 1 win in 7 months, Christ we have suffered.
Can’t see a Villa win tomorrow, Newcastle aren’t all that good but are better than us and have more guts. The usual non-performance from the MF and then errors from the B4 will be our undoing. Hope Goalini stays confident because an early error by him could be the start of a heavy defeat and the departure of our ineffective managerial team. Too many excuses coming from VP, blame everything on the fans never mind that they’ve had to watch the worst ever EPL football over the last five years.
I don’t think RdM will play Grealish tomorrow, no creativity then and if Wimpwood plays then you know promotion isn’t happening this season because if he’s one of our better midfielders then we’ll be lucky to stay up.
Great write Jen and must be a first as no editor cuts to the article. You should be in the dug out on match days . Good shout sending it to the doc.
On a serious note do you think you could take a personal close up look at the two twerps on here Steamet and swv. I havent got any straight jackets but l got some big Tie-wraps to keep them seated . And l can put a carrier bag on their heads as no one should be subjected to those freak show rejects.
And also could you do a piece on how people should not take advantage of someones infliction of a short memory and take £20 notes off me even though we only just met . You know who they are.
And as Runtins on about coming up to the midlands and us meeting up .after he has read it l may get one of the £20s back.
2-1 . And l would love to ram a balti pie with the hottest sauce l can find down that fat fuck scouse quinns throat .
Anyway have a great weekend all . And you swv.
Jenny xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
Jenny: “If only I could give a pre game talk to get them in a positive vibe !!”
Yes, absolutely.
But there’s little point when certain fans call the game lost before it’s started … they tend to lower the vibes of the game before the whistle is blown! 😉
Methinks you have to devise a course for the fans as well … especially Steamer and B62! 😉
Terrific article Jen, but a lot of the positive attitude stuff is down to a lot of common sense at the end of the day isn’t it. I guess in your field its about reinforcing that common sense. Back in the day when us old timers were at every game one of the popular songs was “Villa score, Villa score, once you get one you’ll get more” changing once we were two up to “once you score one you’ll score four” and we often did. Then there is the old saying “attack is the best form of defense” and it’s been a very long time since we had a team with that philosophy, but hey, lets hope more than just us guy’s on this site read the article, and someone at Bodymoor and or Villa Park take notice. In golf if you see the ball going in the water, it will go in the water, so i always vision it on the other side of the drink and nine times out of ten clear the hazard. Also, if you top up your drink half way down, the glass is never half empty, just saying!!!
I’ll be ok when Jezza is announced the leader of Europe’s largest political party tomorrow and then its next on to Downing Street.
i can’t seem to see Jens article ?
positiveness has been in short supply at villa park and we all know why
Like haft of the avl fam i am a glass half full person but i can completely overstand why many have a half empty glass as the team haven’t given us much to cheer about for at least 5yrs
new day new dawn but until we get results start happening it will be hard to get excited or optimistic about villa for a lot of people i guess
Loved the article Jen,
words are so powerful when fed into the computer on our shoulders. Its amazing that a player that scores with ease all practice season can then not be able to hit the net on the pitch, the trigger could be as simple as his own belief he wont score come match day, his body duly obliges by pulling shots wide. An injury can change a players running and shooting pattern so that it has to be relearned by reconnecting with the brain and nervous system until Its handed back to the sub-concious. I wonder if wearing head phones with the crowd playing would help when they practice shooting , especially Ayew and Westwood 😉
I think the missing of chances is a lot to do with our mental problems trigger wise, That 1-0 at half time has become like a bell tolling and the energy drains out of them second half causing fans to doubt their fitness and attitude etc, IMO its a stress response to fight and flight, animals freeze when presented with the certainty of death or run/Fight and we are no different although its not death we fear but losing, If your brains thinking Of 5 reasons why we will lose its not in the flow as you said.
Against Forest when Cissoko went head to head with a forest player I knew then we would concede, the entire team lost cohesion in that split second and it shows the strain they are under from their acquired belief , one spat can destroy their concentration.
when we went one down against Forest it released the team to attack and they quickly took the lead, I thought then they had broke the spell but nope 1up again and the heads go.
I do think to that the collective mental attitude at Villa has to change and by that I mean all of us Team and support, Its hard, as Steamer says “give us something to cheer” but we may have to be the ones to start the revival on Saturday by supporting come what may. We can’t let the last 5 years linger on.
One other thing, i don’t think that there is any doubt Our best performers in recent years have been the ones strong enough to perform so they can earn a move, Benteke, Delph, Gana, cleverly Motivated by a move transcended the Villa jitters, those left behind could not?
Thanks Canadian .
Have you read Bob Rotellas golf books on the mental game of golf because you’re doing it right there .
Runtingz – here it is
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/guest-blog-psychology-aston-villa-11926452
Loads of photos too
Steamer – up the workers
St75 – cheeky very cheeky X X X X
Mark – exactly that . it’s been proven that stress slows the body and responses down, which cd be why our players are looking fatigued for sure .
I agree that using the crowd noise in headphones would help too. Some teams in the states practice with the hostile crowd jeering blasting over the tannoy and purposely have high pressure moments in the practice sessions. It’s just conditioning but it works .
Benteke like most strikers is a confidence player . He felt more secure at AV because he was head and shoulders above the others (literally and in talent ). He didn’t fare so well at Liverpool and when I watched him it seemed the pressure got to him. It’s why many perform better at lower clubs ie their comfort zones.
Yes Jen the old big fish small pond, seen it at every level, believe you can’t make the step up you will be right, believe you can and you just might.
Theres a quote I can’t quite remember something like
If a man thinks he can he’s right and if a man thinks he can’t he’s right 😉
Jenny: “Bob Rotellas golf books on the mental game of golf”
Huh? What’s wrong with the British golfing view – like John Jacobs?
http://www.golfdigest.com/story/jacobs-diaz-lessons
Steamer: “I’ll be ok when Jezza is announced the leader of Europe’s largest political party tomorrow and then its next on to Downing Street.”
What? Steamer for P.M.? 😉
Nah … can’t be … more like Steamer wants the Chancellor’s job … that way he’ll get his hands on some loot!
Mark I’ve seen a few differebt ways of saying this but it was Hebry Forde
‘Whether you think you can, or whether you think you can’t : you’re right.’
It’s one of my favourite quotes .
John – Bob Rotellas deals only with the mental game of golf . He’s probably the most famous golf psychology writer .
John Jacobs concentrated on the practical side I believe / the swing etc .
Jenny,
Yes, I understand about BR.
Yes and no about JJ. I think if you look deeply into what JJ says there’s a lot of psychology mixed in with the “practicals”. And in my view they’re not to be too much separated.
I first came across JJ 50 years ago and have noticed that his approach is hugely subtle (how about that phrase?!!) and achieved a lot by getting inside the player.
‘Whether you think you can, or whether you think you can’t : you’re right.’
Also said by many wise men thousands of years ago, I’m afraid! (possibly in different words but expressing the same meaning).
Jenny,
In fact I’m sure that JJ knows a great deal about mind over matter as he is said to have hit a golf ball 200 yards while sitting down.
Trey it!
No, “try it” I meant! 🙁
Henry Ford
Apart from his famous slogan “You can have any colour you like, so long as it’s black!”, I feel pretty sure he borrowed other maxims from the likes of R. W. Emerson and/or Mark Twain, or other great American minds.
I’m not so sure that Ford was good at anything except being single-minded in his one famous endeavour, was he?
Anyway, after reading “Working for Ford” (Hugh Beynon) some 40 years ago I was not very impressed with Ford and their systems.
It was about that time that I started reading Ernst Schumacher and even going to one of his lectures … much more inspiring.
JL- 200 yards while sitting down? no mention of where it landed 😉
Don’t know much about Ford JL but at least his car panels were made of pressed Hemp and his engines ran on any fuel like hemp oil, veg oils etc of course this was pre-oil company monopoly and destruction of the hemp industries by slander against marijuana on the whole, that carries on today even though it has many advantages over drugs of today and as a material.
Jen- typical 5 mins after I typed that saying I remembered the original can you sort out memory ? 🙂
John ,
I wasn’t saying I admired H Forde , but the quote : which I now know is incorrectly attributed to him . I’m not surprised but thanks for that .
I’m not trying to devalue John Jacobs at all . Bob Rotella isn’t a golf coach . He doesn’t coach how to play , he only does the mentality side . He seems to be the furst ‘go to ‘ book my golfing clients consult before finding their way to me . This is why I’ve read all of his books to see what they’ve learned . I’d say it’s nothing new and falls short in many areas. They are though purely concentrated on the mind : no practical advice . If you consulted JJ he would teach you how to play – BR is for those who know how to play technically but csnt improve because of nerves . Ppl see me when they’re on the verge of giving up because of this . My daughter’s boyfriend is 18 and a scratch golfer – hoping to be the next R McIllroy . Hes doing his pro exams or whatever they do . He’s got a very robust mentally now – he’s one if the few that don’t get bothered . This may change of course .
Mark – sadly no cos mine is shocking too
Henry Ford financed the Nazi Party, evil man who was an arch fascist and gangster.
Bet BR & JJ couldn’t improve my golf, had a bucket of balls at a driving range once, half an hour later i hadn’t moved one off the tee and had put my back out, must have been the club.
Predictions for today ?
Jenny,
Well, I was brought up in a golfing family and I played golf for 30 years … sometimes 2 or 3 times a week when I was a teenager … until I finally realised that the sport occupied too much of my time.
But I have played at some level of competition and know well the frustrations that are obtainable in that sport, enjoyable that it is. But I learnt that I made myself frustrated because I refused to have my technique changed.
As I said before, I am quite aware of the difference between JJ and BR! But I was trying to say that for me I have more confidence in one who has played the sport and knows what’s involved, and who is held in the highest esteem by his colleagues – including Jack Nicklaus!
Confidence in golf comes simply by hitting the ball correctly and getting to the target area. JJ wins in that area so why the need for psycho-drama?
Sure, there are states of mind that can be induced that apply to all kinds of sport, but golf and the attitude towards it is actually a much more simple affair than many realise! I suspect that people such as BR make a fortune out of others gullibility – and Americans often tend to be gullible – when what is really needed is just to learn to play the ball properly.
Having said all that, JJ has shown that he has a real insight into the minds of other golfers so in my book he is also a fine sports-psychologist.
Just read your article Jen,
and am truly impressed, as you have clearly stated what is happening and how to overcome.
I have always been a great believer in the “attack is the best form of defence argument”, which clearly was Leicester’s belief.
Off to catch the train to Aston soon, as driving there is ok, but getting away from the ground and Birmingham is a nightmare.
Missed the Newcastle game last season, but determined to see this one, and a Villa win….VTID..UTV.!!
Jenny
Enjoyed your article. It made a lot of sense. I hope Villa take it on board.
It would be useful for those suffering from depression, anxiety or just a bit low on confidence.
Be great if Villa beat the Toon. Probably be a draw cause both teams might be too scared of losing. Like JC said, You have to first lose it to win it. Something like that:)
Mark,
I hear what you say about Ford, but the book I mentioned (“Working For Ford”) highlighted that the treatment of people was low on their list of priorities. Not that the attitude was not industry-wide – it was – but Ford seemed to me to be less concerned than others, such as Chrysler (who I worked for over a few years).
Jenny,
I should also have said that perhaps too many golfers have suffered at the hands of ordinary golf coaches and that’s why they tail it to BR…
Maybe there’s a shortage of coaches like JJ, who for me has the all-round capability of getting the player to where he wants to be by instilling confidence.
I’m going to have a chat about that with Bernie Firkins, an old-class mate of mine and golf professional who once played in the British Open. And he’s a Brummie! 😉
JL- does not surprise me or that he funded political parties (steamers Comment)a lot of American Oligarchs did and probably still do. I don’t know if it was a financial or an altruistic decision or what was available at the time but its what happened.
As for not needing The psycho side of golf it may not be the swinging of the club/style thats wrong? just a trigger that leaves you tense and unable to repeat that groove in competition much like strikers have barren patches until they luck one in and hey presto they can score again. Driving a car becomes automatic, but distraction like phones take you out of the moment, a trigger on match day is similar and won’t be removed by practice unless the association is erased.
Mark/Jenny
Is that the same sort of trigger that brings on a panic attack. If so, it can usually be identified and delt with.
thanks for that Jen – real in depth view of things and definitely think you are onto something there
I don’t feel surprised that we have struggled to get going as we are coming from rock bottom entirely
At least we have a little hope now , great chance again to turn a corner today and some of jen’s positive solutions on board
Mark,
Believe you me, I understand the point – but I didn’t say you didn’t need the “psycho side of golf”. What I was saying is that if you can find a coach who as a considerable insight into both (like JJ) then i.m.o. you don’t need to go running after someone like BR.
You see I’m confident that the *proper* treatment has to be both technical (the swing, perhaps) and psycho. I’m not sure how you can successfully divorce one from the other.
Trinity – I would assume so, from what I have read its called an ANT, Automatic Negative thought.
It plays like a broken record in the mind whenever a set of similar circumstances arise. Jen would be able to tell you I’m just read to much 🙂
Its not surprising that fans are now starting to associate the new regime with the last one as results are what matters and we are not getting them.
JL- I was just alluding to Jens comment that her clients have exhausted the practice side of things and moved to the mental. I cannot imagine the majority of golf coaches have the knowledge to teach such thing and likewise football is just crawling out from the dark ages in those areas, Olympic athletes have been doing it for years, beggars belief but its got to be 20 years since England football discovered Nutrition and Lifestyle.
are they mark ? — i think the new owner and get up is awesome – we must remember what villa looked like 4 months ago
we have a long way to go but personally think we are on our way , but it’s not happening overnight
each game e don’t get going though just adds to the pressure for all concerned
Bet the BBC don’t show the Jeremy Corbyn banner tonight on MoTD.
Mark: “I was just alluding to Jens comment that her clients have exhausted the practice side of things and moved to the mental. I cannot imagine the majority of golf coaches have the knowledge to teach such thing”
That’s more-or-less what I said above, viz: “Maybe there’s a shortage of coaches like JJ, who for me has the all-round capability of getting the player to where he wants to be by instilling confidence.”
So I think we understand one another here, but what it amounts to is that an industry seems to be spawning other industries, when what is really needed (taking this scenario) is an improvement in the level of coaching in golf. If JJ can achieve what he did then others can as well, and in fact I know that JJ has trained others into his methods.
What I have been saying is that JJ is not your ordinary skills-only coach.
Runtings-
trust me not all fans are as level headed as those on here, listening to some you’d think the Doc had failed already. My own thoughts are the polar opposite I really like the Doc. I think most are in panic mode as they don’t like being out of the prem, some think if we take two years to return then the gulf will be too wide, utter rubbish That gulf has always been there financially.
With all that is in place now though surely we should be with a chance of going up come the end of the season
that’s the pressure we have mega resources compare to clubs in this league so not going ha to be a failure –
JL- As I know nothing of JJ I’ll take your word 😉
I would not be surprised if some level of sports Psychology gets added to doing your badges if it isn’t now, its the mind set of the coaches that will either call it nonsense or common sense I suspect. Your average person certainly see’s it as far fetched when in fact it has a huge impact on lives and health.
One of the biggest mental responses to a trigger is a visit to a doctor, Most people have felt ill then get in the docs waiting room and miraculously start to feel better, Its down to the mind giving the body permission to heal as they have completed the steps/triggers. They could just realise they can heal themselves but we are a strange lot. Worse case scenario is the reaction to a prognosis of Cancer or similar, for some its the trigger to a downward spiral.
Runtingz- this season those top two places will be hotly contested but I think we will make Play offs minimum, and hopefully go into them on fire.
Mark,
Yep … it’s all in the Vedas! 😉
Mark,
As I said, I’m seeking comments from my golf pro friend on this – to see how he views the golf coaching fraternity. Hopefully he should be free to openly talk now as he’s not been a ‘pro’ as such since he reached retirement age, but is still on the golfing circuit under another guise.
Yes Mark automatic negative thoughts and negative underlying beliefs hamper performance .
The reason why sports pp turn to sports psychology is because they can play brilliantly in practice but go to pieces in competition . So if technically they are brilliant and have the physical capability it is the mind that is holding them back.
Negative triggers , negative anchors occur when something bad has happened (couid be frequently or a one off) and the brain and body go into “there a threat’ mode . With repetition , the body starts reacting to the set of circumstances (the negative trigger) not the reality and fear floods in . Because of our survival instinct , having to look out for danger to survive , we tend to hold onto the bad things longer and more intensely than the positive . So the last five mins on the clock is going to be an important time in any game but if you are repeatedly conceding in that time then the heavy feelings and the anxiety kicks in : in addition to responding to the critical time of the game , they are also responding to the bad experiences of their games before. Consequently they are over anxious and when you’ve got nervous adrenalin racing through and overwhelming the mind (and it does feel like overwhelm) it is debilitating , exhausting and you are more prone to mistakes .
It is also different fur everyone . All the ppl I have coached have experienced this at some time and we work on thought replacement techniques . It’s no good saying “don’t think like that ” you have to replace the bad thoughts with good .
It does work and I’m not being conceited here but proof that it is effective is that ppl have come to me wanting to give up their sport . They all leave feeling more confident and resilient . I have received an e Mail this morning from the mother of an under 18 , who came to me because of was going to pieces in competitions . After 20 sessions they are now first ranking under 18 and in the British team , something last year they never imagined they could achieve . she e mailed me because the technical coach has changed the technique and it’s thrown her off. It’s a wobble and I just have to get her thoughts back on track . It will take one session that’s all .
Trinity – a panic attack is an extreme reaction which starts from an irrational (often) intense negative thought . The physical response can be similar in terms of sweating , raised heart beat , overwhelm on a much greater scale .
Sorry for lengthy response !!
Back to today : captain Elphick has said he has 100 per cent faith in the talent he has in the dressing room. yrs, yes, yes. That and the magpies lost to Wolves 2-0. We can beat them and we will. An AV win 3-1 .
its got to be 20 years since England football discovered Nutrition and Lifestyle.
Flabby still hasn’t discovered them.
Jen/trinity
The old Jesuit saying “Give me the boy and I will show you the man” is probably behind most peoples life choices and maybe even personalities. Responses learnt at this time age 1-7 goes straight into the mind without questioning and anxiety can be no more than a response to a childhood occurrence long forgotten but not by the subconscious.
Jen,
S75 suffers from panic attacks, every time he goes to the bar he breaks out in a cold sweat, Bet you can’t do anything for him, unless you’ve got 20 quid.
steamer- gabby has Automatic feeding syndrome
Brill
its crazy how a footballer can earn 50k plus per week without even having go get out of bed
mark you should have your own show 🙂
wow Leicester getting hammered
Mark – very true .
Steamer – he’s beyond help
Cancelled sky sports when we went down – have weakened as blow me down more villa games on tv than last year ????? Relented and called sky – hit sky sports on offer at £15 month – got to be done !
Turned on to see pogba scoring Man U 4-0 . Turned off very quickly
Jenny: “The reason why sports pp turn to sports psychology is because they can play brilliantly in practice but go to pieces in competition . So if technically they are brilliant and have the physical capability it is the mind that is holding them back.”
My understanding of that is implicit in all I remarked on, Jenny! 😉
But the JJ approach seems to work for that issue as I understand it.
Stroll on, Leicester must be bad even Untied have walloped them.
you say –I NEED help !!!!!
phone conversation yesterday.
Me , steamer you ok to pick me up in the morning to get my car from garage ,
Steamer — yeah no problem mate
Me — great see you in the morning .
Sat morning ………. no steamer .
me, l walked the 4 miles to pick it up .
anyway . i think lucky 2-1 to us .
the badge you see as my avatar is on a T-shirt some villan is knocking out , £10 + £3 p&p.
its really pissing noses off as the area shown , but l was bought up there and l love the satisfaction of telling them why l chose avfc ……………………..” your shit !! thats why always have been always will be ”
have a good weekend all
Jenny xxxxxx
FREM are you going to Preston mate .. lm going on the rattler , let me know and maybe meet up ,
also are you interested in a very large toolbox , its got wheels , l dont need anymore , can send you a picture of it if you want , might be handy at your workplace ,
Runtins
yes definatley meet up for a couple of pints , and lm stapling my notes to my wallet so bring some dosh with you , lm most likely to have wobble head steamer in tow though , anyone else fancy it ?
Those notes are white fivers and pound notes all with runny ink.
steamer 75- where and when? even better as I wont need to bring cash
runtingz – should have my own show? I have and your in it we are doing a duet at 7pm so better get your skates on 😉
Drinking beer in the Railway Inn in the city! Plenty of Villa fans!
gollina
baker be a miracle if he manages 90mins
elphik
chester
bacuna
amavi
wastwood i give up he is crepe
jedi
adomoah
ayew
codja
subs
bunn mutton richards
rudi tish hepburn murphy
One good thing is that after today, Wigan, Derby and Cardeef will be three behind if we win today, i don’t think we’ll be relegated by Crimbo this year ….. hopefully.
mark we you the makings of your very own flying circus right here
looking forward to seeing what adomoah can do
runtings that forward line has a whole lot of pace especially as Grealish is not playing we may see some counter attacking today
and as I speak he’s a wing back 🙂
He’s playing for a point, no creativity at all in MF, how does Wastewood get a game ? must be one of the worst players seen at VP, beyond crepe and takes Grealish’s position, RdM deserves the boot and i hope it comes on Monday, Knob.
Especially as RM isn’t fit, disgraceful.
Brentford, Huddersfield, Florist, Derby, Ipswich have all taken points off us this season and all lost today.
newkie pissing all over us, another big defeat.
this season was supposed to be better,
playing with 9 men bacuna and wastewood are non league players at best saying that shelvey should seen red for tackle
agree with steamer rdm out tomorrow
elphik is a total liability
You can see the team is clearly gelling.
over 50m spent 2 summers running and look at the bench
MUTTON CISSKO RICHARDS
he’s got to go.
steamer
rdm must bought the gel out back off lorry
and with our fave half to come.
Jeez fuck . If westwoods a footballer im a fucking brain surgeon . Hope we find a nice bar in preston because l think lm staying put.
Still not convinced with rdm . Lets see what happens second half . As we been shite
And usually we do the opposite second half .
We really dont have a clue. Awful performance, no positives what so ever.
well 5 at the back inst working
that sub will either get rdm the sack or change his season,yes the big problems in first half was the gab between baker and amavi but god almighty wastewood and bacuna are utter shite
no subs after that?
go on and win now for a change
The magpies turned into AV second half . Great from us after RDM made the changes and the goal was disallowed . Have the crowd and players hope to see it in back of net . The second half performance shows what AV can do – and that are capable of going up. But we have to play like that for two halves !!’ How many times have we said this over the last four years . Massive point / mostly in confidence and belief . We were outstanding .
Interesting how we pressed and pushed for that goal : would we have done this if we’d have taken the lead ? The second half showed our points do not reflect our capability . Play like second half 90 mins and we are potentially league leaders . Let’s hope the disallowed goal is the turn around for better things .
The Match
Isn’t if funny how the -ve comments stopped coming after half-time … yet no-one could find anything +ve to say when the match changed? 😉
I disagree with Jenny (sorry!) that they “turned into AV second half” as the first half seems to be a downright wrong team shape. Bring on Tish and the match turned round after the team shape was changed. Newcastle had little chance after 45 minutes. Tish himself didn’t do very much (but scored!) but it was the fact that the team shape had been changed that made the *huge* difference i.m.o.
And we should have had a penalty from what I saw.
Well, it’s possible we could get full points from the next two matches, and then we can start buzzing. I thought Villa looked good late in the second half today.
Up the Villa!
I’ve awoken briefly from hibernation and put up a quick match review.
john l
comments stopped after half time yes but we didnt improve to diame sitter,yes we are getting no luck hitting woodwork so many times,but ayew only showed up for 10/15mins of match first half his non tracking back left amavi under so much pressure, rdm puts rudi on takes of winger adoamh [this is not chelsea we have not got great players], what pen are you on about?
gollina no chance with goal but very good all night
bacuna crepe player crepe performance we have to have a rb that does what i t says
amavi under severe pressue first half couple good crosses
baker another non finish of a match another day his tackle is a pen
chester steady enough booked?
elphik had a nightmare not his first either
wastewood not one person on any blog wants him playing unreal he keeps his place we scored when he went off
jedi improved as game went on not easy trying to hold tide back partnered by wastewood
adoamh funny tactics by RDM where he was playing did ok
codja could done better with early chance ,but why put him out on right?
ayew only showed up for part of match
subs
tish come alive last 10mins has to start
rudi no point putting him off and not crossing the ball in
heburn murphy ran about worked hard
Ayew, for all his wastefulness in front of the goal, looks like a man among boys when he turns it on. His ability to twist defenders into pretzels as he jets around them is genuinely amazing … too bad there’s been precious little to show for it on the scoresheet.
We’re desperately missing Ross’s link-up play, as we’ve no one else who’s shown an ability to do it as he does; I truly believe that if RM had played the last two weeks, we would’ve been enjoying back-to-back wins.
As it is, if it wasn’t for Captain Tommy’s unfortunate slice today we’d have back-to-back clean sheets in the book. Speaking of unfortunate slices, how ironic it is that much of the discussion on here earlier was about golfing problems!