In a game that had all the hallmarks of a bore draw, Villa managed to shoot themselves in both feet again today, gifting Chelsea a goal they never looked like clawing back.

For Villa, it was a depressingly familiar sight, Guzan playing a difficult ball for Lescott to handle only to come straight under pressure. Stop me if you think you’ve heard this one before.

And that was effectively it. Costa’s/Hutton’s second…well, when it rains it pours. It wasn’t the pasting that some feared, which is a reasonable enough thing in its own right. But it was another loss with more self-inflicted damage.

Villa weren’t playing badly, and Chelsea certainly weren’t rampant. It was a scrappy affair, which was good from Villa, showing some fight. But there wasn’t any end product to speak of apart from Gestede’s close-in chance that he scooped over the bar. Had he put that on net, he likely would’ve scored. Would Chelsea have folded or roared back? Could Villa have seen out a 1-0 win? It would’ve been a spark, regardless, and who knows what it would’ve done for the side. He didn’t score, though, and that’s what Villa need.

Failings are obvious. If you’re playing Gestede, you need to whip crosses into him. While Hutton doesn’t do badly getting past men and crossing, there wasn’t enough. With Richardson favored over Amavi in what can only be assumed a tactical move to be less open at the back, there wasn’t going to be the threat of quick service coming in from either side.

While Villa generally matched Chelsea’s intensity, Chelsea had that bit of quality on the ball in tight spaces that Villa lacked. The cohesion factor was again evident, with players not quite managing to get the ball to each other cleanly, even though the ideas were right. Chelsea were compact and disciplined, and Villa couldn’t find a way through.

Moreover, it seems that some players are trying to do too much, taking on too many players and dwelling on the ball. I can see now why Barca let us have Traore. The kid could be dangerous, but right now is intent on taking on three or four players at a time, running himself into a cul-de-sac and getting dispossessed. He obviously was able to boss his way around like that in lower-league play, but he’s finding it much harder going in the Premier League. That said, he certainly didn’t have anything to do with the goals Villa conceded. He just failed to provide a spark.

Guzan? I don’t understand what he thinks he’s doing. That’s three howlers trying to play the ball at the back, and three goals conceded. All he has to do is keep it simple, and he’s failing badly on that front. Otherwise, though, he didn’t have much to do.

And those are the fine margins…Well, not so fine a margin in Guzan’s case, as gifting them a goal was the last thing Villa needed. The second was a killer, obviously, in that it just cemented a sense of futility. Villa might’ve nicked a 1-0, or a 1-1. But they never looked like getting two.

So, I’m not really sure what to say. We made stupid errors at the back, and couldn’t fashion enough chances. That’s really about it. If I hadn’t been out so late, I might have something more insightful to offer, but a cloudy head this morning was probably the best way to watch the game. Not that it helped my stomach any.

I’ll ask you, then, what Sherwood did right and wrong in terms of set-up, selection and subs. I’m really just sort of at a loss. He could’ve done everything right, but if you’re going to gift Chelsea goals at Stamford Bridge, it doesn’t really matter what the plan is.

Comments 124

  1. It’s all to depressingly familiar, yes Chelsea are by far a bigger and better side/club. But yet again we contributed to our own downfall. We are in desperate times, I honestly can’t see us turning this around, the manager is an idiot who talks about himself in the third person, but plainly isn’t up to the task and is way out of depth. The squad is poor with far too many unproven foreign imports, bought for inflated fees( is Ayew worth £10m or Veretout?? ) We haven’t replaced the goal void left by Tekkers, we haven’t even replaced the energy of Delph or even Tom cleverley( who TS got playing well at stages). The defence look as shocking as ever, Lescott FFS I never wanted him, and I got slated when I said I’d have rather had Jonny Evans. Hutton , Bacuna, Richardson, Clark are they good enough?? No is the answer, only Richards has looked ok . TS wanted Guzan gone a few months ago , now he is our man man again but showing why he was dropped ie he is utter shite, but we have no back up, Mark Bunn a Norwich reject who couldn’t earn a contract a Bristol City and Jedi Fucking Steer!!! The summer was wasted and now the house of cards is imploding big time. We need a miracle to stay up as this isn’t the manager or players who can save us.

  2. Hi JC- first up why put Richardson in at left back? I don’t think he is a better full back than amavi and certainly not as fit or effective going forward. He was always going to get subbed because of lack of game time and age so why play him and waist a sub? also Amavi covers a lot of mistakes and through balls that the CH’s miss.

    what was the game plan? was Gil going to provide crosses? I’m certain Ayew was supposed to again square pegs. Gil seemed cemented out right and away from Grealish which didn’t help he needs to be allowed to dictate the game which is where Westwood gets in the way for me.

    Gestede did his best but was Isolated and given little ammo.

    traore I was hoping would get put in behind as he does have pace but no brain it seems, neither did the team supplying him.

    We are a disjointed mess that looked comfortable but Impotent until we gave the game away

  3. I am still completely baffled.

    TS has the International break to save his job, work with the team, look at formations, tactics and build team spirit. And he does what only TS can do – create a tactical disaster

    Ayew – our new striker on the left?

    Amavi dropped – the only guy who can cross the ball?

    Richardson at left back?

    Hutton at right back?

    Westwood still in the side – he constantly gives the ball away?

    Lescott at the back – has he actually played one good game for Villa?

    Gil out wide – he needs to be closer to Grealish?

    Gestede up front but with no obvious plan to actually cross the ball to him?

    Traore comes on but makes no attempt to pass to anyone?

    Ray Wilkins is delighted to be back at Chelsea – smiling and joking with all the Chelsea players and sitting 6 feet away from TS – really Ray??

    Veretout? Where was he?

    Sinclair – Sanchez ???

    And TS – absolutely clueless. How much are we paying for this bright young tactical managerial rising star? Too much. Go now Tim – you are a busted flush – a fraud.

  4. And the icing on the cake, Blues are looking like they will take our premier league place and the massive TV deal. Without the TV cash we will struggle in the championship. This really is the nightmare scenario. 🙁

  5. I can’t see Villa scoring, no threat. As for Guzan, Bunn must start. Guzan is the worst ever villa goalie. Grealish, Richards, and Hutton are the only decent players today. Westwood is absolutely shocking.

  6. I also think costa should have all his games screened by a panel so they could ban him for life, I have never seen such a blatant cheat in all my years watching the game, By all means be cute but this swanker takes it to a new level of dick head.

  7. Tim says Richardson was excellent

    He’s sounding like Lambert

    It’s time to go

    Bit Rodgers doesn’t want the job so fuck knows who else. Don’t want Pearson

  8. Its so funny but its no joke. In the summer you realise guzan and hutton are terrible and replace them but no here they are and guess what…there still shit.

    It aint rocket.

    Oh well, im beyond giving two shits, just observing villa in a detached strange way.

    If fox wants a chance to stay up go and get moyes back from spain. Id be ecstatic to have him.

  9. Gana was also decent today. Four players played well. How can u win games if that’s the case? Chelsea were there to be taken, we never looked like doing it. As for Ayew, he puts in a shift but we’re playing him as a left back. Tell him to stay center and forward. It’s a joke

  10. Andrew, I’m with you.

    Finally saw Guzan’s most recent howler, I used to like him and perhaps have been too loyal because his shotblocking brilliance kept us up at least one season if not 2 but he’s become completely inept with his distribution. In fact come to think of it IF he hadn’t gifted City a win when we could have had a famous win at the end of last season then perhaps this Epic collapse since then wouldn’t have transpired.

    Amavi: Agreed
    Ayew: Agreed (although that was Angel’s comment I believe
    Moyes: Agreed

    Looking at the next run of matches the opposition is too tough to risk any more points. Let’s get this over and done with now and move on!

    UTV

  11. Morning all and thanks again for the write up John.
    I can’t understand why in a game where you have players like Costa and Willian waiting to pounce that we play it out from the back and carry out kamikhazi passing round the back . This is the team you hoof it up the front / like we do for lesser teams . We are not Barcelona – I hate all that gut wrenching square back passes that gifted them the game. After the first Guzan Lescott Chelsea goal why didn’t we learn our lesson – but no given cheaply away by our defenders to kill the game.
    On the plus side I thought it would have been more against us .
    I agree on Costa Mark – but seeing Micah Richards bounce him off his chest was satisfying.

  12. Hey Mark, sorry if I punched your car analogy. . . . no such thing as a new idea eh?
    Well. . . . It seems that Tim actually managed to somehow build a car that moved yesterday . . . . . and then Guzan crashed it

  13. one word disjointed , we played as 4 teams.

    jen I agree If we are playing the ball from the back we need mid-fielders to come and collect otherwise its hoof time. And surely Guzan can see if a player wants the ball? we had moved up field for his kick.

    watching yesterdays game Its obvious that this team needs Sanchez to sit and dictate the game. I still think Vertout and Gana would be a decent option but it ain’t happening .Westwood does not play well with two sitting DM’s and Tim won’t drop him. our turn around from defence to attack is like watching grass grow, no urgency from the Gana and westwood to get the ball and themselves forward. And the passing was awful, we created our own problems at times because we didn’t want the ball in midfield.

    On Gil I can’t make out if he goes over easy or he’s just being fouled and the ref thinks he’s going over easy, either way he needs to stay on his feet. the other option is our players learn the non foul technique chelsea use, basically foul the man but carry on running and don’t look back works a treat.

  14. Robbo 🙂 Like all great writers you expanded on a theme mate, I didn’t get as far as the driver but at least Tim sent something out that didn’t totally look like a clown car, more a Jalopy.

  15. Newcastle can go above us today, they are at home to Norwich( again a newly promoted side showing us how to do it in this league), it’s not an easy fixture for them, but they are at home and I expect them to sneak a 2-1 victory.
    We can’t afford to persist with this experiment, if Moyes wants the job we should go get him now.
    This season has proved to be more of a disappointment than even the previous ones under Lambert and Mcleish. First we all thought we may get bought and would finally be rid of the cancer that is Randy Lerner and his cronies, then we were told Sherwood would be backed and to a certain extent he has been by spending in excess of £50m even if £45m was recouped in sales giving us a net spend of around £9m. But the transfer window was completely wasted, we have spunked a shitload of cash on unproven foreign imports and lower league gambles. I don’t care who is responsible for transfers at the club, the manager has to have final say, and between them the royally fucked up in the summer. They said Charlie Austin was too expensive at £15m yet bought Gestede and Ayew for £16m with two sets of wages, now who will score the most this season Austin or dumb and dumber??? We then bought midfielders, again for big money £10m for Veretout?? He didn’t even make the squad yesterday, Gana at around £8m, Traore ( one for the future) to add to our ever growing list of useless midfielders like Westwood( who is crap but seems undroppable).
    We dropped Guzan quite rightly last season because he is a joke, we never replaced him yet let Given go bring in Bunn, absolutely no competition
    For the no1 spot, leaving the crazy yank in goal who is about as effective as Sly Stallone in escape to victory.
    We are a shambles in every dept.
    Interestingly on the Sunday Supplement , TS was discussed as were the people above him and David Moyes. As a club they said we are no longer a sleeping giant, we are in a coma, and they don’t understand why Moyes would want the job( other than its gone wrong in Spain), having had the chance to go to the likes of West Ham who are light years ahead of us both on and off the pitch, moving into a 60k all seater stadium and challenging for the top6/8. They also said looking at our squad of unproven, untried players having lost Tekkers, Delph and Cleverley, we were always going to be in a relegation battle. It’s hard to disagree, we may think we are still a big club with a rich history, but no one else in England does, we haven’t challenged for anything on a regular basis for a very long time. 2 league cups( a long time ago now) since our 3 year purple patch of winning the league, European cup and super cup which was 30 years ago or so. We aren’t progressing on or off the pich and are falling further and further behind the rest of the league. Most clubs in the top flight have training facilities akin to ours, Stadiums to match or better ours , bar say West Ham( will better us next season) Everton( Goodson needs a revamp or a new stadium) all the clubs have a better attendance % to capacity ratio than us. Randy Lerner has destroyed this club, even standing still in reality is going backwards. I fucking despair at our club, we are an embarrassment to the league

  16. Morning all

    Yea jc the headline says it all and has become frems catch phrase over the villa horror years

    On balance the outfield player wasnt too bad and didnt deserve to be one down but for yet more shocking decesions from our keeper

    The worrying thing is even when we knock the ball around half decent we never really look a goal threat which must fill the opposition with more and more condfiedence as the game goes on

    tim must find a way of getting goals

  17. John
    Thanks for writing your match report.
    Enough’s been said about the match by other Lifers, so all I’ll say is that if Villa fail to take points from Swansea, I agree TS might get shown the gate.

  18. Hello folks! Just breaking cover briefly to comment on B62’s last post:
    “… we are no longer a sleeping giant, we are in a coma,… Randy Lerner has destroyed this club, even standing still in reality is going backwards. …”

    I’ve come to think that’s a fair comment. And I think perhaps we should concentrate on that being the situation and direct our arguments to the top brass instead of attacking an inexperienced manager who has been forced to retreat and comment (words to the effect) that his mandate is to keep the club from being relegated (rather than being in, say, the top-10).

    Officially, the line is that Villa should purchase young players that are likely to increase in value (and therefore create financial sustainability). It appears that TS’s cry for more experience amongst the summer purchases was over-ruled by the non-footballing managerial side of the club.

    So … the problems we have are far more to do with the club’s overall mis-management (described by B62), not so much TS – who has obviously been trying to find a way to explain away through the media and has instead attracted blame to himself for his apparent inconsistency.

    It suits the real bosses of Villa for TS to get the flack. Note how the bosses stand back … except by sending in a Field Marshal (sorry, a General) to give their argument some authority.

    I am not saying that TS has done nothing wrong, but I suggest that TS is being used and being taken for a ride by his employers, using his lack of managerial experience to make him manageable by the real bosses. If we have any argument we should direct it to them rather than blame TS.

    TS has a big task to get this lot into shape and he needs backing by the fans. I don’t believe he will be replaced unless we’re still down there in December.

  19. JL,
    Always good to hear your thoughts however on this occasion I must disagree.

    I fear this is one of those 40 points to avoid relegation seasons with very few truly weak teams like we’ve been fortunate to encounter recently.

    For that reason it would appear that every point is crucial and hence we can’t afford to have a manager who is learning on the job.

    Besides that Sherwood has not impressed me as a Leader and that is what the manager needs to be. He has gotten down on himself and started spreading blame around and I find that people are buying into this blame game and emphasizing with him far too easily. He’s far too up and down for my liking and if he loses confidence that quickly then so will his players.

    Also importantly he just doesn’t seem to get player selection nor in match maneuvering and he has cost us one can say objectively between 5 and 7 points this year ALREADY due to inept decision making. Case in point yesterday, although I’d say this was one of the better teams he’s put out and we were in it until the latest Guzan Gaff, I can not for the life of me understand not trusting nor playing quite possibly your best player in Amavi. If you don’t trust very good young players how are they going to develop. I take it he didn’t want to leave that flank exposed so went for the more cautious option in Richardson but it makes the strong case that this manager for all his overt cockiness has lost his confidence in himself and his players to get the job done.

    For me this manager is a major disappointment and I’m not interested given this poor though albeit short body of work to invest in him long term so I would rather get someone like Moyes in who has done it and done it well at Everton in for a good 5 years to steady the ship and move this club forward.

    With the tough run of matches coming up and one of the stronger Premier Leagues in recent memory we need to get a proper manager in ASAP not dig ourselves further into a hole or I fear this really will be the season we are finally and deservedly relegated!

    UTV

  20. Alright Lifers?????????Well we have another dud as manager.Cheeky chappie,talks a good game.I really wanted him to do well.Nope ,yet another dud,in a business where celebrity and smart remarks at interviews far outweigh ability and integrity.I only found out the result at 11.30 this morning,that`s how detached I have become from football and the Villa.It just doesn`t hurt anymore when we lose….losing has become the norm over the last 6 years.
    Anyway I hope you are all keeping well.

  21. Ronnie: “… we can’t afford to have a manager who is learning on the job.”

    Don’t you think the Villa top brass were totally au fait with what they were letting themselves in for (and putting onto us)?

    We have what we have because that’s what the bosses wanted … they don’t want anyone in the job who is too capable!! If Moyes *is* interested then I’m surprised. And even if he does come those ‘up top’ will soon be put into shape as wanted by them upstairs.

    Same for Rogers or any new manager. Do you think it matters who they appoint? We’re now in our 4th iteration and what improvement have we seen in all that time?

  22. Hello,
    I’m not a particular fan of Moyes but the thing about him is that he generally puts out a balanced team, one that is hard to beat, unspectacular but efficient. To me, TS experiments way too much, i think he wants people to acknowledge him as some kind of tactical genius who’s nous turns games from defeats into victories, unfortunately he seem to be King Midas in reverse and everybody laughs at him while AVFC becomes a secondary issue to his ego. The problem being AVFC is more important than Tim’s position in the World coaching manuals. If a pub full of half cut Villans could spot his blunders versus Leicester then proper managers will take him out every time. For me, he should go sooner rather than later.
    So the idiot Villans were chanting his name at Chelsea, another ten consecutive defeats and he’ll be nominated for the Villa Legends, not about opinions its about facts.

  23. Steamer (and all)

    You’re all missing the point I’m afraid.

    The club is really run by people other than the team manager. So no matter what weaknesses TS may have, Moyes or anyone else will end up producing the same … or not very different … in terms of results.

    The club is not going to invest in more players, that’s pretty well certain – or maybe one. So any new manager is going to have exactly the same issues to deal with as now. i.e., a squad with too many young and inexperienced players, and gaffs in defence.

  24. Steamer,

    Sorry, I *do* agree with your rating of Moyes, but in the scheme of things I’m pretty certain we won’t see any improvement to speak of – until we have a new owner. And he (she?!) may be worse than what we have now.

  25. Earlier last week I’d thought to put up a piece about Tim going…but I didn’t as too many things seemed to be swirling around.

    But I have fallen into the camp of having Moyes in if he’d come. As many have said, he knows how to set up a team, keep them compact, disciplined and playing hard and then counterattack well. Solid, if unspectacular, I believe is the take offered above. Can’t disagree.

  26. B6B,
    Thought you’d popped yer clogs. What a shame the folk at the top don’t understand what it means to see a lifetimes devotion go down the gurgler.
    JC,
    Been meaning to compliment you on your leaders, you always did have an eye for common sense.
    JL,
    To be honest i can’t see a change anyway, to pay off TS’s dud coaches would cost Lerner too much. Personally i’d like to see every coach booted alongside our totally inept administration. Every one of Lerners many appointments has flopped yet he still goes like for like. I’m fed up with Jocks, Cockenees and failed Americans making a pigs ear of running AVFC but the scary thing is that Lerner could be here for years.
    The only consolation is that a big clubwith good potential like Wolves is valued at 40m so at least Lerner will be burned.

  27. Well, if this is the view of ‘the panel’, then I will bow out again as my experience of how things are at VP is going ignored.

    It seems to me that the “change manager” theme will never end .. And if Moyes (or whoever) does come in and fails to win a match in his first 5 then I’m assuming you’ll be after his head as well. There won’t be any managers left, then.

    You lot would have had Joe Mercer out in ’59 if you’d had the chance!! Poor feller.

  28. JL-

    Good to see you. I have to say, that while I agree about the ownership, I do think the manager matters. If we take Moyes, he didn’t have a lot of money to work with at Everton, but he did better over time than each of his Villa counterparts.

    I think, to continue borrowing the car-parts analogy, that while Tim is still sitting on the garage floor holding this and that piece up to the light, Moyes would likely come in and identify it all more quickly, get something functional up and running.

  29. Steamer,

    I agree with you.

    I think we all had better find a more realistic – and more sustaining – interest. When no-one turns up for matches anymore, then Lerner might take the hint.

    But – as I said before – I suspect very strongly that any new owner will be little different.

    This theme could go on for decades…

  30. JL-

    I wanted Tim to succeed as much as anyone. But I’m not sure the disconsolate figure in the dugout is actually up for it. And, as per usual, one isn’t sure what to believe. We had Tim saying it was his team and he took full responsibility for it, then we hear about all the players he wanted but didn’t get. And after following all those signing stories over the summer, it seems that many of the players he was supposedly after, like Townsend, didn’t want to come.

    That one bothered me, not so much because of the player, who I thought would’ve been a good addition, but because if Tim was so highly regarded at Spurs, a player like Townsend looking to re-establish himself would want to follow him to get back into the frame.

  31. JC,

    I don’t disagree about Moyes and his capability. But it’s mrally and utterly wrong to denigrate the existing manager when part of the problem has been put on him by his bosses. he’s having to work with what he didn’t want … and I think it’s gone against the grain.

    Bringing in yet another manager right now sends all the wrong signals. Give TS until December at least. Even then there would still be 57 points to play for – and safety!

  32. Yes John, Tim must thank his lucky stars that our custodian has put into place such a talented hierarchy, Arsenal must have been daft to let a minor member of staff like Fox through their fingers and then compound it by allowing a Jeerman stats fanatic out of their commercial department, perhaps the Arsenal toilet cleaner needs a challenge and fancies becoming our new DoF.
    Shambles doesn’t cover AVFC.

  33. To others points about the set-up…

    I think you’re all pointing in the same direction, which is that Sherwood has seen the light, so to speak, in backing off his all-out attacking philosophy. Which, while he’s said sitting back doesn’t work anyway so might as well go all-out, he’s had the team trying to sit back.

    Yesterday was a bit of an improvement in terms of the players trying to fight for control of the match, and not let Chelsea come at them in waves. But again, it seems the mismatched parts thing reared its head.

    I was glad to see Ayew start, but I just didn’t understand the formation, for example, as others are saying.

    With all the changing round, I sense a bit of panic. The only way cohesion is going to come is for the same players to play together. He’s got to pick a side and live or die with it. That’s what he should’ve been doing in these early games when no one expected much…lay a foundation. It doesn’t seem he has, and if that bedding-in period was wasted, then we could be in a place where it’s hard to pick up enough points.

  34. There’s a lot of talentless people making a lot of money at VP for very little effort and when that 100m disappears where is the shortfall coming from ? certainly not from Lerner.

  35. JC: “The only way cohesion is going to come is for the same players to play together. ”

    That’s exactly it. Though I think that Lescott has had his day. What on earth has happened to him since he was the Albion’s player of the season?!! I’d welcome Okore or Clark back with open arms.

    And I still think that Grealish is a luxury. First half he was fine yesterday … but it looks as though teams work out how to deal with him in the second period.

  36. The trick about how much time to give Sherwood is whether the team is progressing. And if it isn’t, does a new manager have enough time to put things right?

    As most of you will know, I’m extremely patient with managers and think they generally don’t get enough time.

  37. I agree with your assessment John. An inexperienced manager done in by the top brass. —Again.
    Somewhat out of their depth either by design or sheer stupidity. I feel sorry for all of the players and a bit towards Sherwood. They are always going to find a manager to give it a go. Someone wanting to jumpstart their career and perhaps make a name for themselves. Given nothing but a bag of magic footballs everything comes crashing down. Players all excited about the premier league and fed a line about their skill set and perhaps their supposed ability to make a mark in the premier league. Children amongst men. And us as fans becoming more disillusioned by the minute. And earlier and earlier each season.
    The excuse of bedding in or the team–needs time to gel. That’s fine for one or two players but not the whole team. I expect more from the seasoned pros but don’t get much. Guzan plays ok but can we get someone else to distribute? I’m guessing he speaks Vulcan as he’s a spitting image of Patrick Stewart.
    All in all you can’t blame the players. They are for the most part in over their heads and most likely playing to there best ability in a mess of a team. Joe Cole must be happy to vacate this mad house.

  38. JL-

    Yep. I think Lescott probably benefited from having more protection in front of him at Albion.

    Also agree that Grealish is a bit of a luxury. Which I think is part of Tim’s problem. He wants to get the creative players on the pitch, but they’re both inclined to play more centrally.

    If I were trying to have them both on the pitch, I’d be playing a 4-5-1 with Sanchez as the deep anchor, Gana and Veretout playing up the spine. Veretout is in there because he seems to have that Delph quality, the desire to carry it forward and quickly.

    I can see what he’s trying to do, I think, but as we’re saying, he just needs to stick with something.

  39. Afternoon folks, looks like we have our blog community back anyhow that’s a bonus 🙂

    First off Lerner has not got a clue about football and little in my eyes about business. He has proven inadequate in choosing Men to run this great club and the team. Mon was at least a top echelon manager and gave the club some kudos and momentum . He was the last football man with influence to leave the building. What we have now is a bunch of media/business types who don’t know enough about the game to appoint a good manager or construct something at Villa park.
    When Clough landed at forest they were a mess he changed that by force of will, if Lerner stays that’s what it will take as that appears to be the only chair available to a football man in the house, the rest are occupied by people watching their backs and filling their pockets. Villa park is awash with people learning their trade from Lerner down.

    I don’t really feel sorry for Tim because he is extremely well paid for an apprentice and this is a results business. What I have seen on the pitch hasn’t been up to scratch from him and I don’t think this team can’t afford mistakes on the pitch and on the touchline we will sink.

    Not long back Moyes would probably of avoided us but he’s been stung too so this just might be the bit of luck we need, a parachute falling past us as we free-fall that we need to grab. He might just bring some common sense into Villa park and god forbid some football.

  40. JL i have to agree with your general ine in saying don’t blame the manager blame the board

    they have put every manager except mon in the same positon

    i am sure tim was not in the posiion to get the players he really wanted neither were the others

    with all due respects to our current crop , they are mostly there due to lack of ambition fom randy

    the amount invested in the team in recent times has allowed side after side to gain promotion and already be better than us in almost every way

    this is the most scary season ever and we are already desperate

    i dont mind moyes but i am still dreaming of a manager that can start the kind of philosophy that swans and southampton have

  41. JL,
    I do feel a bit empathetic towards Timmy Trainer but not much.

    Would you or anyone in this Lifers’ Community dispute that he’s personally cost us points against Palace, Sunderland, Leicester due to bad decisions and could you objectively state that his team selection against Stoke was atrocious and that 9/10 pub managers would have done better.

    As Villa Historian you’re of course a respected member of AVL but when I look at this season on a match by match basis he’s done very poorly on game days regardless of whether he had the luxury of managing Brazil 82 or the misfortune of RottenCrotch Utd.

    Moyes can and will do better in what looks to be a very tough Premier League this season!

    Like Mark said one plus is this lively, intelligent debate that has resuscitated our ailing Blog Community!

    UTV
    UTV

  42. runtingz- the strange thing is those promoted teams have not had loads of money thrown at them
    prior to being promoted. Norwich have splashed out £7m Bournemouth and Watford £20-25m since coming up. Norwich had a negative spend last season, Bournemouth £3m and Watford £0m and -1.4m the season before! what they all do is play better football and have a structure.

    All points to Villa’s set-up being the not fit for purpose to me.

  43. Haha we get worse and drop places even when we don’t play, this club is a fucking joke, keeping these clowns = certain relegation, next week we will be 20th utter shite

  44. Southamptons story the same,came up 2012 with a core of players cheaply assembled then spend a little when your up. what we don’t have and haven’t had since Mon is that solid core to build from, its bean a rebuild several times. We continually do what others have done in the lower leagues and that’s why we struggle IMO crap management apart. We have no chance to build momentum.

    http://www.transferleague.co.uk/southampton/english-football-teams/southampton-transfers

    Come on Scotland!! never thought I’d say that 🙂

  45. Ronnie: “Would you or anyone in this Lifers’ Community dispute that he’s personally cost us points against Palace, Sunderland, Leicester due to bad decisions and could you objectively state that his team selection against Stoke was atrocious and that 9/10 pub managers would have done better.”

    Errors of judgment against Leicester certainly , but not that I recall against CP (defeat down to player errors) or (much) against Sunderland.

    The selection against Stoke was one that he thought had been forced on him, probably, as (particularly) Grealish was showing himself to be a luxury. And still is in the current situation.

    Ronnie, if you would read what I said, I did not claim that TS is faultless, but he has clearly having to play along to the tune of the Pied Piper (the bosses at VP) – and it’s not a situation that appeals to his instincts.

    The main fault is with the board. They appointed him on the basis that all they wanted was a manager to keep Villa in the Prem. No more than that – and then when it came to the summer signings TS was (in part at least) over-ruled.

    I don’t agree with you he’s done poorly. He’s struggling, yes, but I believe he has character and has a chance to get things turned round by November/December if he can play with a settled team. We need i.m.o. to give him that chance.

    He *has* partly been let down by some crazy defensive mistakes (mainly Guzan, but not only). Apparently Jed Steer is on his way back to VP on November 1 by arrangement with Huddersfield, and my guess is that he will replace Guzan or be used as a threat to Guzan.

    Incidentally, I hope it’s not just that I am a club historian that I have value! 🙂 I have followed the club for over 60 years and have seen some terrible debacles at VP over those years. This current debacle has “club ownership” written all over it as the primary issue. That has been the case for 33 years, actually. It’s just got worse.

  46. Hello Ian,

    Yep, I agree with your comment … Tim thought VP was a good challenge … for him it’s turned out to be a nightmare challenge in view of the controls imposed on him.

  47. Lot of rambling and waffling on here about formations and tactics.

    Bottom line is that the players are not good enough, regardless of who the manager is. The defence has a calamity per game in it, midfield is poor in defence and creates nothing, and the attack is toothless.

    There are not 3 teams worse than Villa this season

  48. JL- I wish I had your faith in Tim, whether he had some say, all the say or no say, there has been £50m spent, as much as Lambert had in 2 seasons and 6 transfer windows! he also has cleared out the players he didn’t want along with losing some he didn’t. And lets face it if those 3 players had stayed would he have got much to spend? the amount we got for other players was £4m tops.

    If his remit was just keep us up why not buy 3 top players with sell on to replace the ones he didn’t want to lose? after all he claimed we had a mid table team, why destroy that and rebuild again? he obviously felt he needed more in his mind and so is as culpable as the people that sourced the players. Unless they were in complete control which I doubt, they are there to suggest players because Tim wanted new players.

    Not even Man city get all the players they want and we are definitely not in their league. The players he wanted didn’t it appears want to come here that I could see (ady wanted London and a huge pay off for instance). I’m sure Tim is not alone in not getting the players he wanted.

    If the real reason is lets turn Villa park into a football supermarket, buy promise and make a profit more fool him for staying. Yes the Villa hierarchy are at fault yet again but the incompetents employed Tim and that raises doubts for me about his quality and Knowledge.

  49. Mark: “If his remit was just keep us up why not buy 3 top players with sell on to replace the ones he didn’t want to lose? ”

    Because TS didn’t have the say about it. I’ve already stated why in my posts above. He didn’t get much of a say in the purchasing from what I gather as the owner wanted young players that would gain value in the long term. In other words, the owner should be dealing in cattle, not footballers.

  50. Paul: “Bottom line is that the players are not good enough, regardless of who the manager is.”

    At present, that is pretty much the case – agreed. The question is whether they can improve *as a team*. That’s where TS will win or fail in his ability or otherwise to turn things around – to get them playing as a team and with confidence in one another. I suspect he will have to change c-b and goalkeeper pretty soon to try to achieve that.

  51. I don’t know about finding 3 worse teams than Villa, I don’t think there is 1!!! I think that’s Newcastles season started, don’t we have to visit them in a few weeks time haha The list of fixtures we look unlikely to pick a point up in extends by the week

  52. B62,

    The reason why we’re Villans is because we have a love of the club based on the hope that all will be OK in the end! 🙂

    I think we just have to see what Tim can do to get the team playing as a team should. There’s still a long time to go to get it sorted. I certainly have more faith in Tim than the previous incumbant.

  53. Matt Kendrick’s write-ups in the mail are worth a read; I agree with him that Amavi is a defensive liability… The fact that Richardson and Hutton play is just a stark reinforcement of how poor the squad is

  54. Maybe Tim has to sing from the same hymn sheet as Lerner et al. He can’t diss them regarding the transfer window and has to shoulder the abysmal results all the while not being able to mention his disappointment of being rebuked on his desires during the last window. His interviews are lame and really what else can they be. Players of any value don’t want to play for Villa and who can blame them. Everyone can see what happens to them. Bent, N’zogbia, Cole, Kozak, etc all had some pedigree and all turned to poo. And we slagged them for it. Why do decent players turn crap at Villa? When players do make good, they’re off like a shot. So who can blame players for not coming to Villa. Is someone pulling strings regarding players that the last 3 managers can’t do anything about? When the long face in the dugout shows up you can bet the dismissal is not far behind. I remember mcLiesh and lambert having their chins on the ground. Sherwood is there now. It’s only a matter of time before the next manager is lined up to fall on his sword. The problem is NO ONE wants to join up. NO ONE

  55. JL- Do you have insider Knowledge John? or are you going off the same hearsay/media reports we all are?

    In which case he is no better than Lambert and is waiting for his pay-off. I have to say his demeanour suggests this at the moment and I wouldn’t blame him. Again why take the position if he was told this is how it is? because as Mon did he could take them to the cleaners if his terms of employment have changed, no need to hang around getting flack that I can see.

  56. BTW even if the best players didn’t leave Villa would be knackered even worse than it is as they are all crocked ATM. Which no replacements as the real spend was peanuts

  57. Mark: “Do you have insider Knowledge John? or are you going off the same hearsay/media reports we all are?”

    Media reports (not heresay). Reports of actual statements made. The way that information is put out is scattered in different places. You have to research it and put it together.

    “In which case he is no better than Lambert and is waiting for his pay-off. I have to say his demeanour suggests this at the moment and I wouldn’t blame him. Again why take the position if he was told this is how it is?”

    Ifs and buts, Mark? I just don’t follow your reasoning. What was he told when he joined? We don’t know.

    “Going by his demeanour” *I* would say that he feels that he has been stitched up but has to manfully get on with it. I suspect you’ve mis-read him, Mark.

  58. What I don’t understand is other teams buy similar players and they do OK, are we that incompetent? Amavi Highly rated by France, bag of shit for villa, Sanchez one of Columbia’s best players, Gana another decent international it cannot be all down to the players when you are buying them for the sums we are.

  59. Mark, the team is dis functional from the top down. Players come in with some level of talent and get sucked into the low level that Villa have become.

  60. Ian: “Maybe Tim has to sing from the same hymn sheet as Lerner et al. He can’t diss them regarding the transfer window and has to shoulder the abysmal results all the while not being able to mention his disappointment of being rebuked on his desires during the last window. His interviews are lame and really what else can they be.”

    Hole in one, Ian! 🙂 Commonsense personified!

  61. I know for a fact that TS didn’t get to sign the players he wanted.

    TS also has silencing clauses in his emoyment contract. He cannot speak out directly against the board – he would be in breach of contract.

    The board signed the players based on their new money ball approach.

    TS knows that his days are numbered at the club. What we are witnessing now is a facade, a game between TS and the directors. TS says all of the right things – loses against Swansea and then gets paid his money when he gets released.

  62. Good to see you back John – and the other absentees !

    Watching Newcastle just score 6 goals – the Dutch guy whose name I can’t remember 4 beauties – has reinforced how poor we are .

    We are now sitting at 19th – our worst ever start .
    Whilst the board / scouts DOFootball and RL are all responsible, the only thing that can be changed immediately is the manager.

    And change we have to do to stay up. You don’t get time to give mgrs a chance in the prem – that’s just the way it is . Managers are paid millions and Tim will get a hefty pay off for his 3 and a half year contract . He hasn’t had to face the abuse that AM had to face and as one pundit said last night – he’s a lucky lucky bloke getting the job in the first place . More fool the club falling for his inflated self assessment .

    I’m sorry I don’t agree that he has the character to pull us through – just the opposite. He has already contradicted himself over players – his strategy , came in with ridiculous wild claims like “you will never be in a relegation battle with me ”
    and his laughable “the first half all went to plan ” when the noses ran amock . How can you take him seriously . Beware anyone who uses the third person to describe themselves !!

    Whilst he may be the puppet of the board – ultimately RL’s main concern is retaining the tv money . He is not showing that he has the talent / knowledge or experience to do this for RL. Regardless of whether we beat the swans, he is not the man for AV. Stick with him and we stand more chance of being relegated than ever before .

  63. Jl- “What was he told when he joined? We don’t know”

    maybe so but when a manager takes a job wouldn’t he seek assurances? I doubt that Tim rocked up and said I’ll do whatever you want. And as for information are we not all guessing as we can’t be sure what’s given out is based on the truth or someone’s version of it.

  64. Richard S – TS has said they are all his players and if they are great he will take the credit and if they fail he will take responsibility (interview with BMail 2.9.2015). It’s only lately when we fell into relegation zone that he has said they weren’t . Whether they are or not – a good manager doesn’t out his own position before the good of the team which is what TS has done . He’s publicly said that our players aren’t good enough – he the great motivator. He should have kept quiet .

    He will have a confidentiality clause in his contract of employment – that us standard clause .
    He has to get those players playing the best they can and putting the best formation out after selecting the right team for the game . It’s no good opting out and making excuses now .

  65. Hello Jenny,

    Sorry … it’s **far** too early to talk of getting rid.

    Without saying he’s the done deal, I suspect that he has more about him than meets the eye. Give him that chance at least.

    As I said above, even if he has to get dumped at end-November we still have plenty of time to recover – assuming we then acquire the right manager. But can you trust this lot to get “the right manager”? I can’t.

    And even if Moyes is the right vehicle on paper, I doubt that he will be allowed to do any better than his predecessors, because what we’ve got is what we’ve got. A new manager (unless he happened to be Big Sam) is not going to make a difference.

  66. Mark,

    My guess was that Tim was simply up for a challenge, no matter what. Not a qualified coach (remember?) so was happy to take what came – especially a club the size of Villa.

    Perhaps he naiively didn’t expect to be controlled in the way he has. That happened to me when at Villa, so it could happen to him as well.

  67. Jenny: “TS has said they are all his players and if they are great he will take the credit and if they fail he will take responsibility (interview with BMail 2.9.2015)”

    C’mon, lass, that was just for public consumption. That was the second week of the season. What’s been said since has put a different light on it.

  68. You know, there are one or two on AVL: who really give the impression they’re out for Tim’s throat!!!

    This is a human being for goodness sake. And human beings make errors. I certainly have.

  69. Jen- well put, he isn’t showing he’s got it and maybe the Useless powers that be got taken in as much by the rescue and FA cup hero Tim as he may have been misled by them. After all we are talking about a bunch that handed out an extended contract to Lambert for getting 12 points with Alamo football, plus contracts for gabby and Hutton, anything is possible

  70. Evening all.
    First of all – wow! Everyone seems to be back again and AVL has gone mad with comments …….. great to see.
    Secondly – what an absolute shambles our club has become. As ST75 alluded to in a previous thread, what became of the solidity of club, team and fans like we had in the 70’s ……. when we all stuck together, on and off the pitch lol.
    I think that Tim has been shat on from a great height by the non-footballing masters of Villa Park, but that shouldn’t take away the fact that his team selections, tactics and substitutions have left a lot to be desired.
    Lescott is a huge disappointment and a liability at the moment. The good news is that we still have Okores and Clark to come back. And whatever happened to the Liverpool full back or whatever he was/is?
    Agree that Grealish does seem a luxury at the moment but Gill deserves a run in the side.
    Ayew came on against the noses and destroyed them down the right hand side – so why play him on the left yesterday?
    And what has Kozak done to upset TS? Surely he would be more of an all round threat than Gestede at the moment?
    So I will join in the depressives on this and other sites and believe that this season will be the season we finally slip away from the Premier. And like many others, even though I will still hurt when we lose (so I hurt most weeks) I do find myself becoming more distant from the happenings at VP ……… which I find rather sad after 53 years since I first set foot in the hallowed grounds in Aston.

  71. old villa good points
    like to put my thoughts if you rankedplayers from 1 to 20 do a quick scan on our team from yesterday and weep 1to 20 teams in league
    guzan 20 why did sherwood after dropping him not replace him in real
    hutton 20 not good enough for first two years under lambert now our 1 choice
    richardson 20apart short spell utd every team played in fought relegation
    richards 8/12 ok
    lescott16/20 when wba replace you with jonny evans and then get 2m for you well done fox
    gana 8/12 ok
    westwood 20 passed ball back from chelsea half yesterday for first goal says it all
    gil 8/12 ok
    grealish 8/12 not player some think yet
    ayew no ranking not enough games in right place
    rudi 12/16 no way good enough yet

  72. Mark, if I look back over the signings of Lambert and Sherwood, only Benteke and Richards have been premiership quality. Lambert’s were poor and cheap, Sherwood poor and very over-priced. That’s now catching up with an irreversible consequence.

  73. James,

    Interesting mark-ups! I mostly agreed with you.

    Just to be fair, though, you said: “westwood 20 passed ball back from chelsea half yesterday for first goal says it all”. It wasn’t Westwood … I believe it was Gil … and he didn’t have a lot of choice unfortunately.

  74. JL- I have no problem with Tim as a person, hell I don’t even know him. We can only judge him on the job being done, Its no reflection on him personally. I liked his honest approach if that’s what it is, it certainly seemed that way. I just cannot sit here and say what I am seeing fills me with confidence in him.
    He is in a position that is well compensated because of its very nature and the consequence of failure to the club is massive. If I get my job wrong I can go back and fix it with minimal cost, Tim and the club do not have that luxury.

    You could also say that some on here are blaming the players for not being good enough are they not just pawns in this too? how is Tim going to get the players to rescue the season if he doesn’t believe they are good enough? and publicly says he didn’t want them? how are these players that are letting Tim down going to do it if they lack the talent or ability to do so?

  75. OldVilla,

    Good post. I certainly empathise having followed Villa since 1956 and went to my first game in 1950.

    As you probably gather, I think TS is being excessively criticised. Yes, he has made some errors, and the Leicester one was really a gaff … but … Yes, I think there’s a ‘but’… I think there’s a Tiger Tim there somewhere, and he just has to look into his tank …! 🙂

  76. Mark,

    Can we just give it awhile longer to see whether a *team* can’t be welded together?

    I’m not saying it’s going to get turned round this Saturday, but as you may remember, Mr. Lambert was in dire trouble a couple of seasons back until Swansea came along. Benteke made his debut and the rest is history! 🙂

    I think we’re mainly taking it out on Tim because of what we’ve endured the previous 4 or 5 years, but clamouring for Tim’s head is not (yet) going to get us very far. We’ve just got into the habit of expressing our depression in that direction.

    Methinks it’s time to take up a *real* hobby…

  77. Sadly Mark, that’s about it…many big clubs have gone before us. If Jesus comes to take over he still has the same squad. On balance its the same as a Lambert team but without Benteke to bail them out.

  78. Put it this way – imagine I am selling my grade 11 listed rectory – I employ a decorator to paint it – he buys the paint and starts the work . It soon becomes apparent that he hasn’t got a clue – he doesn’t prepare the wood properly , the primer is incorrectly applied . What do I do ? Do I say – don’t worry you will get better but run the risk of my beautiful house being ruined and me being unable to sell it or do I send him off the job and employ an experienced decorator to salvage what he can .

  79. JL
    Yes Tim Sherwood is a person, a human being who will make mistakes , but and this is the big difference, he should be learning from his mistakes and acknowledging them. He isn’t and he is making a complete pigs ear of the task in hand. He is so out of his depth, he is reliant on glib comments and sound bites trying to be the media darling whilst referring to himself in the third person. But ultimately this is a results business, and his in the league since joining haven’t been good enough. All those cocky, arrogant comments regarding his teams being winning team, won’t be fighting relegation under him etc are coming back to haunt him. I actually have no confidence in him to get us out of this situation, one that he played a massive part in creating. John you also say there is plenty of time and even if we waited til the end of November there would still be plenty of time to turn this around, I disagree, the survival total this year will be nearer the 40 pts mark, than in the last few years. Also there doesn’t seem to be 3/4 worse teams than us( I would say it’s a straight shoot out between us and Sunderland as to who is the worst, only they have a better manager), with our fixtures I think under TS we will be as good as gone by December, cut well adrift from the pack.

  80. Problem is I suspect all tiger Tim has in his tank is hot air 🙂 He has made mistakes and he hadn’t got the experience to know how to rectify them as this is his first managers job – that’s the point .

  81. There is talent on the team. We have all said it. They are deer in the headlights playing hot potato. Passing the ball too quickly and then without the necessary speed to have that pass click. Also passing the ball into trouble or to a team mate who it handcuffed by the pass. Perhaps it’s a case of too many Indians and not enough Chiefs. Everyone is putting their two bits in on the field and no one is stepping up to take charge. Sherwood and Wilkins can holler all they want but I think to a large part it’s falling on deaf ears.
    They really need to keep it simple and if possible a little less predictable. You just know what a player is going to do with the ball.

  82. Jenny, at least there would be plenty of fish and bread on the training dining table.
    And if you need a good decorator, hire a firefighter. I painted on my time off for 23 years. 🙂

  83. Ian, you talk as though a successful football team wins with some black magic. Sorry, the players need to be good footballers.

    Please answer my question by running through the team and telling me which players you think are good enough? Guzan, Hutton, Lescott, Amavi, Richardson, Westwood…etc

  84. TS days are numbered at Villa Park – he cannot turn this situation around. He is out of his depth and he doesn’t have the experience. More worrying there isnt the goals in the team as it stands to obtain the wins and points that we need.

    We need a new manager with experience who knows how to structure the side and motivate the players.

    If Moyes is interested them get him. He makes teams hard to beat. And that is what we need until January when Randy is going to have to spend big to purchase the strikers that we need – the goalkeeper – right back and midfield players to dig us out of this mess.

    And it is a mess. We are in desperate trouble. There is no point in waiting and there are clearly issues/divisions at the club.

    And If Jenny thinks it’s time for Tim to go – then it is time.

  85. Paul,
    Firstly:

    Grealish
    Richards
    Gil
    Gana

    Secondly:

    Cole
    Lescott
    For their experience and perhaps their settling effect on younger players not so much their ability to compete for a full 90

    Yeoman:
    Hutton
    RichArdson
    Sanchez
    Gestede
    Kozak

    Should be gone:
    Guzan
    agbonlahor

    Future potential:
    Ok ore
    Illoris
    Gardner
    Steer

    Don’t think either or for:
    Westwood
    Askew
    Bunn
    Clark

    Those on loan? Don’t think about them at all

  86. JL,
    Timmy Tinker needs a new agent, r u interested?

    I’ll hand it to you, u know how to stir the pot mate!

    My criteria for a good manager(not just football):
    1) supports his staff publicly and private
    2) keeps an even keel and puts on a brave face when times are tough
    3) makes a decision reasonably quickly and sticks with it in word and deed
    4) Assessee talent well then works with said talent rather than disowning and undermining them publicly
    5) has a plan, executes plan yet recognizes when plan is not working on any given day and adapts ie sir Alex
    6) personally shoulders the blame rather than passing the buck
    7) has the experience to get said job done
    8) knows when to keep his mouth shut and when to use the media to his advantage
    9) works with existing staff rather than showing unfair bias to those he recruited
    10) is modest and lets his actions and deeds speak for him rather than talking in the third person about himself!
    I could really go on and on…

    What hurts about this manager is that I wanted to get behind him and had a high expectation after a good start but he has lost the plot and made himself look quite the fool in the process.

    If I’m singing his name in a month I’ll revise my stance but don’t bet your life on it!

    UTV

  87. Have to agree with the comments made by Jenny and Ronnie Biggs, on TS.

    He is a typical “Cockerney Chancer”, and has no depth to him. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, when he was first appointed, but after seeing the shambles towards the end of last season, when he meddled with winning teams, and then never won another game, after the Everton home game, I was concerned, but still kept the faith.

    Since the opening day he has failed to win another game, and has made plenty of excuses, but not come up with the goods, and it is not that we have a crop of useless players, as I am sure a more experienced manager could have achieved more with this group of players….also what happened to all the talk before the Chelsea game that Nzogbia was back in favour and would definitely be in the squad, but inthe end was not even on the bench…..

    Something is dreadfully wrong at VP, and TS would now appear to be the main culprit, when you start blaming your players and telling them that they are not good enough….then that is exactly what they will be ….not good enough….

    Nice to see Steve McClaren getting Sissoko firing again….didn’t we intend to buy him??? Perhaps if Lambert had been backed enough to buy the players like Sissoko that he wanted, Villa may be in a different position now.

    I will make the Swansea game and have a ticket for the SOTON cup tie, but will it be worth the journey????

  88. Jenny: “He has made mistakes and he hadn’t got the experience to know how to rectify them as this is his first managers job – that’s the point .”

    That’s your opinion, lass. Towards the end of last season you were actually looking at Tim’s +ves … and now – (9 games into the season) you’re willing to stab him in the back.

    Let’s take Newcastle – no wins until yesterday and with a manager I do not rate in the slightest, despite all his coaching tickets. *Suddenly* they gain a 6-2 win. It *can* get turned round, though Newcastle are not out of it yet.

    By backing Tim’s demise you’re helping to bring down the status of AVFC into the category of a club with no principles. You criticise him in such a way when you’ve previously backed him.

    As a trainer I would have thought one underlying principle of your craft is to give a person a chance. Everyone didn’t get at Lambert too much in his first 2 years, so why Tim in his first 2 *months* after last season when he at least kept Villa up and got them to a cup final? Lambert’s contribution to cup success was (as I recall) to throw in the towel in a semi-final with Bradford!

    Tim has not been given a proper chance yet, and – equally significantly – how do you think another manager is going to make any difference with the set up we have at VP?

    Swapping managers in quick time is *not* a recipe for success.

    Cor luv a duck … if you lot had been around in the 50s and 60s you’d all have been pulling your hair out! 🙂 What is needed is a change in the *whole club* … instead of crucifying Tim why don’t you all get together as they did in 1968 and force a situation with the board (owner)? If you did that I’d listen to you.

  89. Paul P: “He is a typical “Cockerney Chancer”, and has no depth to him.”

    Sorry mate, you have no basis for saying that … He was a league winner with Blackburn and a bloody good captain to boot. I don’t recognise any acknowledgment of that in the language you use.

    It’s also a form of racism. I love Cockneys! 🙂

  90. Paul pears
    I feel your pain, as shite as we are I will still go as I’m a ST holder, I can only pray this mess is sorted before I start taking my son down the villa, he’s only 1 so it should be sorted by the time he is 21 😉 In all seriousness I’d like to take him to a match with my dad, so we can have 3 generations of Villa at the match, however not whilst we are this bad with fans constantly angry ( rightly so)at what is unfolding in front of there very eyes.
    Sherwood has come out and said he is bored watching the Villa, they are always passing sideways and backwards!! Never on the front foot. He states he hasn’t instructed them to play like this. Well fuck me sideways Tim, try paying to watch that garbage, and yes Tim does have to take responsibility as he selects the side, it’s formation and set up. So when you pick Westwood every week, that is all you are going to get especially when paired with other DM and a defensive line up. Is this a backhanded swipe at Ray the crab Wilkins, who I’m hearing the players don’t get on with.
    For me we need to start issuing P45,s today, get rid of these cockney wankers bye Tim, Bye Ray both of you are not good enough and aren’t part of the solution so are definitely part of the problem.
    I simply cannot belive a club like AVFC cannot compete with the likes of Southampton, Swansea, Leicester, Palace, West Ham, west Brom, Everton etc
    Sack them today

  91. Ronnie: “My criteria for a good manager(not just football) …”

    yes, I like your recipe. But the manager we’re talking of works for a questionable crew who have dumped him into something of a quagmire.

    And as far as Jenny’s Grade II building is concerned, I’m as just as concerned as she is … and perhaps more so as I’ve spent a lot more time in it!

    I like Alan Shearer’s standing up for Tim. OK there’s a bit of favouritism there as they were team-mates at one point, but Shearer’s standpoint is correct … sacking at this point is far too early. Until we get closer to the point where the 40 points needed to stay up gets closer, he needs to be given a chance – until December at least.

  92. JL
    Not all players can succeed in management, no matter how good they were, Keane, Pearce, Moore, shearer, Barnes, Mcateer etc and some of the better managers didn’t really set the world alight as players if they even played at all ie Jose

  93. B62: “yes Tim does have to take responsibility as he selects the side, it’s formation and set up.”

    Mate, I suspect what is happening is because Tim does not have the managerial rights you suggest he has. I’ve got this awful feeling he’s been stitched up something rotten…

    We’ve already found out that he did not have final recommendation on the summer signings and it would seem to me that his job is a good deal more restricted than that.

    You, Jenny and all *may* be right about Tim’s lack of credentials … but it’s still too early and (as I keep saying), you think another manager is going to make the difference?

    I’m wondering whether Tim was just brought in to safeguard Prem status last season and then Wilkins brought in to takeover from Tim if things didn’t go right this period…

    … Well, if Tim goes then we’ll probably get Wilkins instead. Yep … another Cockney and one that’s not going to go down too well with the fans either. THEN what are you all going to do? 😉

  94. B62,

    You all keep on harping about getting Tim out as though there’s a replacement out there who is going to make a difference!!

    Remember: the manager’s given criteria is just to keep Villa in the Prem … Not whether you actually enjoy (as a fan) watching the team or celebrating a win. The fan is utterly ignored.

  95. Morning Lifers- I’ve been thinking about the claim that Tim didn’t get the players he wanted. While this could be partially true (and when does a manager get all he wants?) Tims vision for the team is what shapes how things start and progress regardless of the system behind it.

    Logically you would think Tim would sit down at the end of last season or hopefully before and decide on how he wants his team to play? then you would look at what you have and decide who fits into your vision and who doesn’t. Next step, draw up a list of areas we are weak in and need to improve in in order to play the type of football you have in mind.

    Next up present your list of requirements to the scouts/recruitment system and see what they come up with whilst adding a few of your own to be checked out to see if they are viable. As far as I can see this has been the direction Villa want to go in since Fox arrived and Tim would of been very aware of this surely?

    They in turn present Tim with a group of players that suit his criteria. Tim looks at lists and decides which ones he thinks can do the job he wants them to do. They may not be the players he wants given a free rein but they fit certain criteria and Tims system.

    That is how I see the recruitment process, so given that as a place to start

    A: what is Tims system? did he or does he have a viable plan in place?

    B: Were there better options on the lists presented to Tim that would of been a better fit for his vision?

    C: Does Tim have an eye for a player if he hasn’t previously worked with them? ( he was looking at lots of spurs players reportedly)

    D: Did Tim think that all those players would want to work with him again?

    E: Did Tim underestimate His own draw and more Importantly The clubs present ability to attract top players?

    F: Did Tim really believe Benteke, Cleverly and Delph were staying? did the players give him any hint they wouldn’t? After all there were plenty of occasion that those players said how much they loved playing under Tim (probably orchestrated by the club but hey). Did Tim buy that hook line and sinker, especially in Delph’s case. Or did the end to the season make their minds up?

    These are some of the things that I think have shaped our season so far, As far as a plan I cannot see one being implemented, What I see is akin to a Manager turning up and not knowing his players or how to use them effectively, then desperately changing to hope he lucks in on something that works. And in some instances not seeing when something is actually working.

  96. Ian,

    That’s it, 4 people you would automatically put on the starting sheet; the rest are not good enough today.

    So, all that remains to understand is whether or not it was Sherwoods decision to execute the dreadful summer transfers…somehow I doubt it. Football is a results business so he will go, but nothing will change.

    Lerner has not learned that his financial strategy needs a dull Pulis or Allardyce or Hughes type of manager to allow the team to keep PL status…young managers don’t work in these constraints.

  97. Mark, I like your team but fear it’s a bit lightweight without Sanchez or ayew and could get bullied!

    As a motivator I would definitely give ayew a chance against his brother! He’ll be well up for it! UTV

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