We have heard, have we not, of how the prowess of Aston Villa used to lift the workers in Birmingham so that the following Monday produced an improvement in production.
Just folklore or not, I believe that the idea of it is not a daft one. After all, if you were physically working in a hum-drum and repetitious activity for very long hours in the days of non-TV and (until the 1920s) no radio, then you’d want something to lift your spirits. And investing a tanner to visit Aston Villa would provide that lift, both through their quality of play and their achievements, aided by a pint at t’ pub. And the Blues and the Albyun in those days usually had a good team, too, to ensure that when Villa were matched against one of ’em there was plenty to talk about after. What days they must have been – I missed nearly all of that era but remember elements of that atmosphere in the days of packed terraces in the early 50s. Including that guy who, every home match, would walk on his hands from the centre-circle to the goalmouth. Different times; different people. What fun.
Days that have all gone now. The old-type heavy industry is no more, the cloth cap has gone but the trams are making a bit of a come-back. The culture of the country is vastly different from what it was 40 years ago, let alone 100 years ago. And Aston is no longer the district of local Villa supporters.
Sadly, the claret and blue colours look rather insipid these days: once they seemed to have a rich hue about them but now the colours look to me as though they are (literally) all gloss with a bookmaker’s name scrawled across the front. It’s all about money now – the so-called ethos of knowing the price of everything but knowing the value of nothing.
Where has the quality gone? Quality in the kit, yes, and the quality on the field in particular. All has gone downhill, it would seem, apart from the prawn sarnies (perhaps). But are our expectations of the club too much? Some supporters of other clubs took drastic action when their clubs went down unwanted roads, like Wimbledon and Man U, but is Villa a different case? Way back in 1936, Fred Rinder, that grand old bastion of the Villa (and even in the days of the club’s first real depression), still opined that Villa were, and always would be, a great club. I always believed he was right, until about 5 years ago when I started to feel that things were not good at the club. And in Villa’s history, 5 years of downturn is a very long time indeed. The length of this period in the club’s history can only be compared to the latter half of the 1960s. And it then took more than 6 years for the new regime to get things back on track: but they did – in grand style.
‘Where there’s life there’s hope’, they say. Can we have a 1969-type resurgence all over again? I now have me doubts, even though relegation has not yet taken place. The game is now a different creature to that which many of us fondly remember, and the money element is seen as what drives it along.
But it is people that have historically really made the difference, so where are the kind of people that really feel for the club and could help in another resurrection … the new Harry Parkeses and Eric Houghtons? And the fact that Villa could once draw on the then recent club experience of Vic Crowe and Ron Wylie. It’s that intimate connection that still existed back then, but I cannot see that level of connection and commitment in existence today.
Perhaps there’s a message here, about a broader picture. Premier League football now consists of precious few teams of real talent; the so-called top players live in a totally different world it would seem, and the lower league teams have really suffered since 1992. Perhaps we should examine the question whether top-flight professional football has passed its sell-by date; or perhaps we are content to go along with this ball-game within a ball-game and wait just to see what happens.
“The times they are a-changin’.” (Dylan, but best sung by Brum’s Ian Campbell)
Peter Paul and Mary version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7PJGGVziU
The Author
John Lerwill
I'm a Villan of more than 60 years standing and an occasional writer on Villa history. For me there is only one football club worth supporting, but I am now wondering whether I will again see anything like the pageant that was paraded under Ron Saunders or even that by Big Ron and Brian Little. My glass, however, is always half-full! Click here for my Villa website.Comments 274
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nice article John thanks,
Like you I think it will take a paradigm shift in peoples thinking to bring back or maybe even better those times, but I do believe it could be achieved if peoples underlying mode was altruism instead of the me me me culture. Having seen big brother and Geordie shore this weekend it could be too late. even with talk of recession the vast majority are in to comfortable position and will not move there ‘arises even though the chairs on fire. Back then the vast majority were economically poorer but socially and communally better off, something I witnessed disappear as I grew up being a born in 63. As far as villa concerned we may rise again, other less famous clubs have done it, it just takes an owner with the right idea.
still think playing wing is easier than center mid, have got the feeling this lad might just prove an exception 😉
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-carles-gil-fit-8442425?
John,
First of all many thanks for signing the book ST75 sent me I have already started reading it and so far I can highly recommend it to anyone looking to brush up on their Villa history.
Back to your article and a good one at that ( not like the last fecker, I just will not let it go will I ), as you say the times have changed the days when we used to scrape our last pennies together so we could go down VP have long gone, the financial landscape has changed and football is no longer a part of the community but just another big business looking to make money.
The connection between the club and its players has disappeared which is why the majority of fans feel disenfranchised not only with their clubs but football in general, the shift and divide is there for all to see, we all know who the top clubs are and we all know the also rans, then we have the group who will battle relegation season after season, unfortunately Villa have fallen into the later category and in all fairness I do not see that changing in the near future.
If you believe what you read some media companies are looking into the possibility of streaming all premier games live, where will that leave the matchday supporter, will he or she feel less inclined to take the journey to the stadium or decide to just sit in their lounge and watch the game on their 55 inch tvs, this could be the future and it looks pretty bleak.
AVFC RIP
Hello John,
Agree a top flight pro football, rotten from top to bottom. It’s not only the game thats shot its society, the values are different, the people who watch these pathetic reality shows on tv also go to footy with the view that if you dress it up its a quality product, no its not, its a con to make lots of money for talentless morons who dress like clowns and think they’re above the law when they smash up a club while pissed. Anyway, footy and Villa, we touched on Villa and the connection with its fans a couple of years ago, not many felt a part of the club and since then AVFC has overtly driven fans away and persecuted its own supporters clubs at a time when gates are rapidly declining, i don’t remember this happening in the 60’s, the club built the Lions Club on the bowling green at VP and had an active supporters club until Ellis decided to destroy anything that could provide a potential threat to his dictatorship through an organised opposition, thank God for Buck Chinn who’s name should be on the Witton Lane stand instead of a self serving chancer.
Anyway, as Ronnie Corbett would say ‘I diverse’ what exactly is there at VP to make fans attend games never mind enjoy them ? An outdated stadium shorn of its brightest diamond ( thanks Herb ), a team that neither entertains nor wins nor even attempts to, a clueless manager obviously way, way,out of his depth employed by someone with a record a mile long of employing failures at his sporting clubs. Not a lot to be enthusiastic about is there ? When i read the letters on the Mail page from Villans who were against protest and even defended Lambert i wondered what world these people were on, content to pay 50 pounds a game to watch the club they say they support make no attempt to even achieve mediocrity and then write to a newspaper calling the dissenters non-fans, sorry, after years of defending AVFC and in particular our fans i realise that the Sky fans have taken over with their Hansen cliches and bs, they’re welcome to it.
Trouble is Mark, Lambert will play him FB.
About.
Mark,
Did you push the 6 button instead of the 5 ?
SWv,
Bang on, i remember Boots and Ros pinching a couple of pushbikes to cycle to Middlesborough for a NIGHT game, when the bikes gave out they thumbed it. It wasn’t a case of ARE you going but WHERE are you meeting, the differences were –
1) A love of footy.
2) A greater love for AVFC who although incapable of fulfilling our dreams didn’t actually go out of there way to destroy them.
3) A vision of an achievable successful future.
4) A comradeship borne through like minded beliefs in the potential of our great club, not because you were a clueless twat who knows nothing about the game and will piss off and support one of the Sky 5 when they see Villa floundering in the Champo.
steamer- I can recommend botox. Mr Lambert seems awfully exited about this lad, never know he might start to look at are other players with no premier experiance, Grealish, Johnson, Robinson……………………………….
Steamer- back in the day you hung your hat on what group you were part of, punks, skins, rockers, tories etc these days
people follow trends (see beards) but tend to not knock seven bells of shit out of each other. totally different to the 70-80’s. football is no longer a religion for the majority as there is to much else going on to occupy there peas.
Morning Lifers
Top writing once again,thanks John.
Steamer,today`s games or at least attending a game is all about conformity.Our club,or rather the club,it doesn`t feel like OUR club any longer,seems to strive to erode any enthusiasm or free thinking amongst the support.Hence ,every attempt is made to suppress the Brigada Lads,when ,they really need to be encouraging them.The mentality now seems to be,pay yer 50 notes,consume over priced food and drink,sit down,shut up and go home.Don`t you dare stand up,hold a banner that doesn`t support the regime,sing,stamp your feet,or voice your point of view.Basially swallow the sanitised match day experience and bugger off.You are part of the match day on our terms,conform or be arrested or escorted out by the Gestapo with the orange jackets.The EPL and football in general can stick the matches.the games,the inane waffle that passes as analysis,the brainwashing that everything is “great,superb.he a top,top player,take a bow son,”and stick up their airholes.
Rant over ,have a great day all.
Daily I receive confirmation that homo sapiens are the most disgusting species on the planet.The Charlie Hebdo edition after the atrocities is selling for hundreds on ebay and elsewhere.Anything to make a buck,be it from tradgedy or anything else.Football mirrors this to a tee.
brasil- oh no we reached a new low on the site gay bashing
😉
on another subject just cooked myself some lambs liver onions and bacon in butter, bit of thyme, garlic, salt and pepper, bloody lovely :-). apologies to any veggies that haven’t had brekkie yet 🙂
swv one for you mate
http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7517977
A splendid article as always John and I love reading about how it used to be, cloth caps and all!! I would also add that the supporters used to walk miles to the games across all parts of Birmingham.
Whilst we have to accept time can’t stand still, we can still try and preserve the ethos and great traditions of the club and instil in the players a sense of the history and what it should mean to wear the Aston Villa colours.
I don’t see this from the club or our current crop of players and the players and fans seem to becoming even more disconnected. Not going over to thank the away support is one which really gets my goat.. Oddly enough, the player who has showed the most passion this season was Sendeross at the beginning , galvanising the others to go again and fight. We haven’t seen that sort of leadership since, not from Vlaar or his substitute captains.
It seems that the club do not welcome back old players or those connected with the club either. I don’t know what is happening with Tayls at the moment but why waste the good that this fans favourite can do for the club. Why did they chose to exlude him rather than engage with him. His omission from the end of season tour was made very public, and these kind of acts really do annoy the fans.who have so much affection for him.
The bad feeling could so easily be avoided if AV had tried to engage with their critics instead of excluding them. Part of good leadership is listening not just to those who seek to flatter but to those who don’t agree with your way.
A note on Droyd’s article and Mark’s comment about representation. . Not everyone will have read the 100 or so comments and I would say that the media people who trawl through facebook and twitter looking for fans reaction definitely don’t have the time to and so it is possible that the article heading will be construed as a ” pro-Lambert contingent”. I am not getting into the argument of whether it should or shouldn’t have been put up, just saying that I have had my facebook comments read out on Talk Sport from the AV official site in the past and it was obvious from the ones they read out that they had just scanned them with little regard to majority opinion or emphasis.
re GIl – I am afraid I can’t get excited about another 2-3 million pound player having not recovered from the Tonev experience and seeing more balls in row z of the Holte than between the posts when ever he took a shot. Or as my friends Dad used to say about the less accurate strikers “the ball is still travelling round Birmingham on the no 11 bus.” As a battered Villa supporter maybe best to expect nothing and then we can be pleasantly surprised if the lad can even add one to our 11 goals total 🙂 🙂
Steamer – there you have it I think. Football clubs have tried appeal to a wider audience to get more bucks in . The loyalty and tribal aspect of it has been diluted over the years. So has the sense of community. The passion isn’t there any more and anyone still going to Villa Park will know that the atmosphere, the excitement just isn’t the same. It is a difficult one as whilst not wishing to exclude any sector, the marketing it of “family entertainment” has taken the edge of it.
The inclusion of more women going to games has also changed the atmosphere – and I include myself in that. John talks about the 1920s games, well you look at the photos – there is not a woman to be seen. It would have been unheard of for my female ancesters to have gone to a game. Whilst I don’t want to exclude myself here, I can see why this could have been preferable. I am tying myself in knots so had better stop before I bann myself from watching football ever again haha But I do understand why men would prefer it to be male dominated however politically uncorrect or sexist that may sound – it is just a fact and I understand that.
Thanks a bunch for your comments, lads and Jenny!
On the matter of a protest this Saturday I like the idea in principle (though think that it should be 11 minutes to emphasis the situation in a different way – only 11 goals scored), but I am a bit worried with a young player making his debut in a foreign country.
However, reading between the lines, it could be he’s being picked to try to offset a fans’ protest, in which case the protest should go ahead i.m.o. It could also be the case that he starts on the bench, in which case by the time he comes on the match will nearly be over.
Of course the Gil signing confirms two things –
1) Lambert is going no-where.
2) Fox is, as was always suspected is lying scum, never mind all this bollox about no jobs being safe, your no going to give a manager 3m to spend and then boot him. Is there anyone with integrity at VP ?
Oh Jen, the legend, you know, the fat bastard was first down the tunnel on Saturday, Villan, may arse.
Jenny: John talks about the 1920s games, well you look at the photos – there is not a woman to be seen. It would have been unheard of for my female ancesters to have gone to a game.
Ah, now that’s an interesting one as the well–heeled took their ladies to sit in the stands. That was the way ladies were thought to want to watch the match – in comfort and not amongst the hoy-polloy!
I’ve got a lovely commentary, Jenny, (that’s in my Superclub book) that describes the reactions of a feller new to this game called ‘football’, and how he perceives it in 1908. One of the most hilarious bits in his commentary is about the lady sitting next to him whose hat-pin keeps on threatening him when she turns!!
Steamer,
Boots and Roscoe were not built for cycling I am not surprised the bikes gave up the ghost.
AVFC RIP
Mark,
Thanks for the link although if I had to be honest the way Lambert sets his team up I would stay in the bar for 82 minutes and then 8 minutes in the shithouse, as for Gil I hope for our sakes the kid can play because we seem to be pinning all our hopes on a 22 year old from Valencias B team who has never played in the premier, but I think we will need to be cautious I remember Tony Moon scoring against the Arse and thinking he might be a player, with the scouting networks available to all clubs and especially in Spain a knockout bargain is very difficult to find, but lets give the kid a chance although I would rather see him play at left back and not on the right side, only joking Mr.Lambert.
AVFC RIP
We are all agreed about the disconnect between club and fans. Aston Villa is by no means unique in this regard. Sky have played a big part in that. Others will in the future. It is an unstoppable trend. There is nothing we can do about it.
I am interested in history too. I am very proud of our nation’s history. How our ancestors made our tiny island into the world leader fills me with pride. I despair at todays society. We have squandered our wealth with expensive wars and socialism and are now £1.4 trillion in debt. Our civil liberties are being eroded by the day under the false pretence of keeping us safe. Our e-mails are monitored by the state. Freedom of speech (the whole point of fighting the Germans) is dead. What a total shambles. Britain as a place to live in 2015 disgusts me and I am plotting my escape.
This is all reflected in modern football. Right from the horrendously corrupt FIFA to club football in supposedly the best league in the world. World Cup in Qatar, debt everywhere and a disheartened and disenfranchised fan base. The average person has no say in what happens anywhere. Can’t say this, can’t say that.
But diving is fine, no retrospective bans for that. The worst a player gets for horrendous cheating is a yellow card. You can’t even win the ball with a hard tackle anymore. The art of tackling has gone. I heard a commentator say during the Leicester V Villa livestream the other day – “I don’t think he got enough of the ball there” – What the actual fuck? What percentage of the ball is now acceptable for a player to win in a tackle these days?
Droyd,
You talk to a newer generation football fan and you’ll think they’re talking about a different game, everything they think they know they’ve picked up off the TV, the commentators are appalling so what do you expect ? The panel, another Jimmy Hill invention whats it all about, don’t we have eyes, do we really need cheating footballers defended by their pals ? Read somewher that Hansen and Lawrenson were on 1m each per season + a chauffeur driven car from their Southport homes + 5star overnight hotels. It wouldn’t be so badif some even had a personality and has anyone detected common sense from Ian Wright, oops, forgot, you don’t qualify if your a cockney and a pal of Linekers.
Did you actually think either of the wars were about freedom ?
Great article John
The times they have a-changed and not for the better, in the case of England probably traced back to Thatcher and the greed is good model that resulted in people becoming wealthy on paper but no aspect of social responsibility to bring everyone with you on the journey to riches. And no social responsibility to ensure the physical and mental wellbeing of the nation was being cared for.
We had/have the exact same situation here during and post the ‘Celtic Tiger’, the race to have was the only race and those that did not have were left behind, now we have large emigration, a dwindling workforce to carry the can of those less fortunate due to the malaise that was the Irish Government and the lack of control on Irish banks.
To bring it back to football, Ireland has probably seen an increased amount of football tribalism but the population is so small it can’t be considered football violence but more football skirmishes. The apathy about modern football and the move towards the self as opposed to community including football community has meant a loss of feeling, there is nothing to fight for only self preservation.
The big problem with AVFC is the lack of people we can trust that despite difficulties we can see are making attempts to steer AVFC to calmer seas. We can’t trust Lerner as he wants to jump ship at the earliest opportunity, we can’t trust Lambert as three years has proven he hasn’t a clue how to manage, we can’t trust Fox but I’d say on the basis that he hasn’t been in the job long enough and finally we can’t trust the players because bar sporadic exceptions whatever 11 is out there, only 1 or 2 are trying to die for the cause and 1 or 2 can’t carry a team.
Have to disagree with you Steamer on Fox, I don’t think he has the necessary clout yet to demand the sacking of Lamberk but I expect that if the dust settles and we are still in the EPL then his strengths around sponsorship will come to the fore and hopefully a DoF to ensure no manager however poor or brilliant has the same level of power as Lamberk has because it appears he is only answerable to Lerner. Therefore he has to provide the 3m for Gil, he has no choice.
Welcome to Carles Gil, god love you but you are on a hiding to nothing, not from the fans but from the media perception that you are part of the jigsaw to resolve our current problems. The resolution of our problems comes with the resignation or sacking of Lamberk and the departure of Lerner. Nothing else wil give AVFC fans the boost that the arrival of a new manager and owner (devoid of the baggage of the last eight years) would bring.
Steamer- two world wars to maintain a free market, well free if you were one of the boys, totally exclusive if not. Beware the industrial military complex for they shall fook the whole lot up royally
I know its been done to death but here goes another one:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/comment-should-aston-villa-sack-8444965
AVFC RIP
Hi Droyd
Something for another forum so apologies to all but ‘How our ancestors made our tiny island into the world leader fills me with pride’. In your ancestors efforts to become world leaders, you colonised countless countries stripped them of their unique identity and natural resources and gave nothing back.
I’m not for one second saying my country is greater than yours or that you shouldn’t have pride in it when it comes to scientific or artistic contributions that have benefitted the world and I’m not saying my country is covered in pride in terms of some of its actions but temper that pride with the realisation you destroyed much along the way to becoming a world power.
You state wealth has been squandered on socialism, do you mean squandered on socialism as a theory or squandered on people who have less (granted some people wish to remain forever on the dole). As an ideology it seems perfectly reasonable to expect the nation to support its people equally, the downfall of socialism is that it looks to remove the importance of wealth creation in supporting socialist ideals. A balance between the two should be the standard to the point political parties aren’t needed as they are self-serving and power hungry in nature anyway.
A good article, John. Thanks.
“Perhaps we should examine the question whether top-flight professional football has passed its sell-by date; or perhaps we are content to go along with this ball-game within a ball-game and wait just to see what happens.”
I think a lot of it has passed its sell-by date. The so-called clubs are just businesses that prey on people’s loyalties to suck more money out of them while paying them back with scant regard. As long as the Sky money is coming in, the owners don’t usually care, anymore. There’s token gestures to the community, but that’s about it.
The game, attitudes and many things have changed since I started watching Villa back in the 60’s when the Holte End was not only full of Villa fans, but opposition fans too. I can remember standing shoulder to shoulder with the local dustmen from Tottenham in one particular game, and this old boy constantly shouting “C’mon the Spurrrrs!!”.
In those days there were also women and girls in the crowd, albeit not in great numbers, but there are many female pensioners, who are Villa fans.The biggest problem then was holding back the crush when the crowd surged forward and hanging on to the safety bars to stop people being crushed.
My pleasure from Droyd’s article was that it engendered a great response, and the level of reply was a great improvement on the recent constant slagging, with little constructive comment, of which I have also been guilty. Hopefully the new signing will make a difference, as will all the protests from the fans. Villa can no longer ignore the backlash that has been building up over recent weeks, and it may also make the board question how much support they have been giving PL over the past year.
Interesting to see the vote has gone from 45% in favour of Lambert’s sacking to 72% today. Is it now too late for Lambert to get the fans back on side???……This is on the Birmingham Mail site.
Trinity,
Too true, half of the 44 Premier and Championship clubs are now under foreign ownership, the big problem is the culture and traditions of English football will mean nothing to these owners from far afield and so will be sacrificed in favour of financial interests.
Cardiff is probably the stand out example, Vincent Tan changed their club colours from blue to red, changed their club crest and nickname from bluebirds to red dragons, although it has taken a long time to reverse the Cardiff fans are now getting their club colours back, these foreign owners cannot even spell heritage let alone understand what the club has meant to generations of supporters.
I think we have got off quite light with Lerner as I expected us to be re-named the Cleveland Clarets and for VP to be called The Lerner Superdome.
AVFC RIP
SWV
Yes, I know about Tan, claims the fans don’t appreciate his saving the club. You know, there’s people in America who think you’re only safe in Birmingham if you’re a Muslim. That could explain Randy’s lack of time at VP:)
Darren: …it seems perfectly reasonable to expect the nation to support its people equally, the downfall of socialism is that it looks to remove the importance of wealth creation in supporting socialist ideals. A balance between the two should be the standard to the point political parties aren’t needed as they are self-serving and power hungry in nature anyway.
I like that statement. This is the crux of this year’s elections i.m.o., that the electorate not only get out and vote but push for policies that will create a better balance. Most importantly to get away from the concept of ‘we and they’. New Labour (I suppose), or even the Liberals, go someway towards that but all the hitherto 3 main parties are now seen to be out of touch.
Ideally, between now and May there should be real local town hall debates taking place and not the media-orchestrated ones for TV – but I doubt it will take place. The conventional left vs right thinking still pervades as I see it.
Darren- there’s an old adage that the victor writes history, the Romans maintained every culture outside there own as barbaric for instance and filled their history books with tales of brave Romans taking on the barbaric hordes, couldn’t happen in this country could it? My problem with ism’s is they invariable plonk someone in a seat of power and usually they get to like it a little to much. Our government are in effect there to do our collective bidding but you’d never guess it would you.
Mark,
Yes quite true and there is an old saying my old gran used to say about my granddad it went ” Never Argue With An Idiot, They’ll Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience “.
My gran was a funny old soul I remember her last words before she died she said ” What you doing with that hammer “.
AVFC RIP
John,
Naar, they’ll all be watching Big Brother instead.
Excellent piece Comrade O’Rourke i’d love the UK to embrace real socialism instead of the Labour Party version which is neither here nor there and never has been.
Been catching up on The Tudors, strange that Sir Thomas More had a statue in Moscow and was feted for his Communist beliefs, he also wrote Utopia which was regarded by Karl Marx as his blueprint. Trust royalty to behead him.
SWV,
The FA should introduce the German system of ownership of clubs.
Bang on Trin,
Cardiff were going no-where before Tan arrived, don’t agree with some of what he’s done but at least he turned them around.
PP,
Lambert won’t get the fans back, apart from what he’s done to Villa he has no personality or character and is untrustworthy, just read his comments when he joined –
‘We’ll definitely try [to play a more entertaining brand of football],’ the former Norwich manager said. ‘We’ll go and try and win every game we can. I’m not going to try and sit back, I’ve not been used to that. We’ll go and try and win. If we can do that with style, then great. If you nick the odd one by doing it the other way, then great, we’ll take it.
And amazingly adds….. ‘Norwich were like that [playing entertaining football] for three years. It wasn’t just the Premier League that they did that, they’d done that in League One and the Championship. There’s too many people who come and watch you — especially here where you get 40,000 at your ground. I’m pretty sure they’re not going to sit there and wait for you to take 40 minutes to get into the game and have your first shot at goal. They won’t accept it, so you have to get the crowd going.That’s what we’ll try to do.’
If that doesn’t tell you what he’s like then nothing will.
Steamer – Absolutely the wars were about freedom. Germany were trying to impose their will on everyone else and had to be stopped. They have eventually achieved their goal in a bloodless format in the modern world called the EU.
Darren – I’m fully aware of the negative consequences of Britain becoming a superpower. That doesn’t mean I don’t admire the brains and balls of tiny island in achieving this. Much like I admire Putin. Questionable ethics but he doesn’t take any shit and puts his own people before others regardless. Can you say that about Western leaders? I don’t like Putin but give me someone with balls to run a country like him than limp wristed cock munchers like Cameron and Milidweeb. Running a country takes courage and fortitude. The modern Western leaders simply don’t have it and the likes of Putin runs rings around them. Richest man in history by the way.
When I say socialism I mean wealth re-distribution decided by the state. As if the state is any moral guide with their expenses cheating and paedophile rings. (If you want to know the name of the Conservative MP that strangled a child to death in a paedophilic orgy then direct message me on Twitter @the_droyd – can’t name him publicly for legal reasons).
Taxes i.e. – Stealing money that someone has earned to pay for a bloated, unproductive public sector and the feckless to sit on their arses is immoral in my view. Hence we now have James Turner Street in Winson Green. 100 years ago every home in that street housed a tradesman. Now they all house benefits monkeys. Hence the programme Benefits Street.
You can roll out the clichés about work houses and workers rights etc. And how much better it is that we are no longer wealthy and in £1.4 trillion of debt, I know which version of that street I prefer. 1915 or 2015? Very easy. Socialism is a cancer.
So, anyway, who are we signing next?
Ah The Victor, Alf Tupper, he could shift.
Steamer,
The tough of the track, personal favourite was The Valiant with Captain Hurricane and his batman Maggot Malone, Hurricane used to run through the enemy leaving them scattered on the ground a bit like Dewer and a mob of oppo fans.
AVFC RIP
SWV, another variation is “never argue with your mental inferiors or your physical superiors”.
I’m underwhelmed by the signing of the Spaniard. Wouldn’t it make sense to loan him out to Real Betis or Depotivo immediately and skip the heartache of the “he looks decent”, “he’ll be ok once he’s adjusted”, “actually he was shit all along” phases?
Leopold,
What about the Wolf of Kabul and his clicky ba ?
any mentioned don’t eat the snow where the huskies go?
droyd- problem is even the twats we get to pick from are pre determined, corporations control too much including parliament. I like what Iceland did when their economy crashed jailed the bankers and cancelled the dept.
steamer- tried eating cod and chips before I hit the gym, strange colour when it comes up, that tupper must of had cast iron guts. the Beano was something else, every story ended in a scrap
Andrew P,
Most of our foreign signings seem to have one good season and move on, most don’t even have the one, chuffed when we signed Sasa Curcic, flopped, Ivo Stas, quality on film but never made it to the pitch, Stefan Beinlich did f-all for us and then played in Bundesliga 1 till he was 90 for good sides, Breutkreuz looked a very decent player but bombed, Didier Six played well when he was on TV, Savo, IMO was underrated, didn’t like Yorke at all, good player but a piece of work, Laursen surprised me, the Italians thought he was garbage but our game suited him, Kent Nielsen i though was tripe but i’d possibly make him next manager, won the double in Denmark last season, prob a few others out there.
97 goals in 97 matches two constants gabby and weimann
enough said.
The Droyd Socialism is a cancer.
Whenever someone makes statement like that you know they’ve either not experienced or seen very much real suffering. It’s not socialism that’s the problem but how it has been hijacked to be something it was not intended to be. The principles remain valid.
Read “Roots of Labour” mate and you’ll hopefully begin to understand. e.g. Brummidgam’s own “Will” Thorne. Made to be humping bricks at 12 six days a week and by 15 could hardly stand straight.
My old Uncle Percy could tell you some tales about life as it was in Brum in the 1930s before a Labour Government implemented sound policies after WW2.- many of them undone by the Tories. He worked a 50 hour week and then put in many hours in voluntary work to help the underprivileged and got his daughter into university (in the 40s). Labour eventually lost its way.
And the wars were about freedom? Freedom for those that had clout you mean. Yes, they had to be fought, but it was a lot down to arrogance by empire-building Britain that they came about.
The element about Victorian Britain I’m proud about is the kind of conscience-driven effort put in by people like Joe Chamberlain who, unfortunately, also lost his way a bit.
So Cleverly the Crab,will wait until the summer to decide his next move,with Everton his preference.Oh dear,that`s a cross we`ll just have to bear I suppose.
Steamer,I can`t remember which comic they were in but The Bash Street Kids were good.There was a socialist element with the BSK too,with their constant clashes with Lord Snooty,right up your Strasse,no pun intended.
worth a listen
http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7517980
more on the way ?
http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7517978
Andy Gray suggested Ron Atkinson for DOF not a bad call.
Thanks for the article John – have just read it and v. enjoyable.
Something to cheer you up everyone – well it made me laugh
Spoof Harry and mad Mick . Can’t wait for him to do the next PL – there is so much material
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLHHjXINmBk
John, I’m not convinced that experiencing suffering makes you appreciate socialism.
What it should do is help you appreciate the need to help those less fortunate than yourself. Socialism Is one possible method, capitalism with a conscience is an equally valid one.
I like the thought of Atkinson as DOF. Would bring some real footballing knowledge and passion for the club into the management.
robbo- anything with a conscience would be good, along as that means we can start with a celebrity cull to lower the selfishness level 🙂
r0bb0,
I did extend my statement by saying “….or seen very much real suffering” which (in my book) may be in appreciating what you have stated. So in a roundabout way we concur! 😉
However, capitalism does not generally agree with conservation and care of the environment, which are co-partners in the true socialistic creed …
There is generally a lack of wisdom demonstrated in pure capitalism which (time and again) shows its stupidity by undertaking projects and then finding the cost after it’s been done.
As Darren states, the way forward is a middle ground, with development and enterprise taking place within the bounds of wisdom and fairness. And also *need*. Our system still seems to be orientated towards making the rich richer almost for the sake of it.
Maybe suffering inequality though makes you appreciate socialism , inequality in opportunity being the one that stands out. Socialism has the best motives, but has not yet been implemented properly.
And, of course, Tory politics eventually learnt from the principles of the old Liberal and Labour movements … they had to learn the argument about compassion as a result of helping to create two world wars and a massive political defeat in 1945.
The Tories are still demonstrably dinner-table compassionists, their leaders holding immense wealth and doing all to protect the rich while things like bedroom tax (with no or little alternative) being said to be a fair option.
I was horrified to read today that there are quite a few non-Brits who came over to the UK and joined up with the armed forces and have risked their lives who are in danger of being deported because of the current immigration rules.
The treatment of those who have represented this country at risk of their lives is often appalling.
Maybe suffering inequality though makes you appreciate socialism , inequality in opportunity being the one that stands out. Socialism has the best motives, but has not yet been implemented properly.
So few words yet sums up virtually every attempt at socialism, mind you it would have had a better chance if certain forces hadn’t decided undemocratically that it shouldn’t be allowed to exist and, usually by force, de-stabilise those countries who tried to introduce it.
Talking to someone only the other day, not a die hard socialist but he’d read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist, he was so enthusiastic about it, give it a try.
Also had a chat with Carl Chin once, he recommended Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia.
capitalism with a conscience – is that a completely new concept or just bs ?
Disturbing that the club has asked a head hunting company to find an AM and DoF, still no knowledge of footy in the boardroom, Andy Gray summed it up perfectly.
lol
read this on tvb
lambert thinks tactics are what comes out small mint box
Steamer. I think you know exactly what I mean by capitalism with a conscience. Take Bill Gates as an example of it.
The trouble with socialism is that it is rarely (ever?) espoused by people who know how to create the wealth which is needed. Redistribution is the easy bit. . . . any idiot can do that.
Gordon Brown always talked about how much money he was going to spend as if spending our money was a good thing. No, it’s improving outcomes that matters, not how much hard earned money you can spend.
Thanks Steamer those are two books I’ve heard of but have never read . I will give them a try. Capitalism with a conscience sounds like the old Tory paternalism ie preserve wealth and privilege but give the minions just enough so they don’t revolt. In that way the class divisions are preserved .
Jenny, the trouble is, no system is perfect and paternalistic Toryism is far from it. The trouble is that every system is run by imperfect humans human ndictates that
An example of an imperfect human there. . . . pressed ‘post’ too soon!
Socialism is great in principle. The only problem is that it’s always run by socialists who don’t have a clue about how to create the wealth they want to spend. That’s why every single labour government has ended up with more unemployed than when they came to power.
Steamer,
When my book came through the post from ST75 it had everybody in my house puzzled, I had just come in from the gym after running 80 miles in 40 minutes to find the package on the table addressed to Leopold Bollokowski, my wife actualy said do you think it is for us or has the postman made a mistake, so I read out the name allowed and the penny finally dropped, excellent book that will go into my collection.
AVFC RIP
Singapore has managed to improve the lives of millions trough a form of ‘paternalistic’ capitalism. It’s far from perfect but it’s better than many of the alternatives.
The John Lewis partnership is capitalistic but tries to ensure that everyone benefits.
r0bb0,
This debate on politics is very interesting but is concentrating only on humans. Whichever system is in place today, they’re all trying to implement economic growth without much conscience – and a major cause of global warming. Real socialism is politics with a conscience and *can* be properly implemented if people would follow the spiritual nucleus that it contains at its centre. Perhaps in the way the Greens are focusing.
Fracking has been the flavour of the month for some time and that idea has horrified me from the start. Last night I watched a very good documentary on Al-Jazeera about that (that channel’s progs on ecology and downsized technology are always very interesting). In short, the resources required by fracking are too great for the UK to sustain … and each fracking well lasts only for a short time before they have to pick up drill and move on to another site.
Did you read about the 9-year-old from Balsall Common who gave his points of view to the parliamentary committee on HS2? Absolutely brilliant. He told ’em they’ve got their maths all wrong! 🙂 He complained that their plans were so bad that it would be his generation that would end up paying for it.
SWV/Leopold Bollokowski,
Glad that you like the book, mate! 🙂
You’d probably like my ‘Superclub’ book even more. It was previously a 512-page epic at £25 but I’m working on it using various techniques to bring it down to around 360 pages and the price at £15 to £18.
r0bb0: Singapore has managed to improve the lives of millions trough a form of ‘paternalistic’ capitalism.
Singapore is a completely different kettle of fish mate and is a small place – comparatively. It’s basically very rich and can afford to do things the way it does, but credit to them nevertheless.
Brunei (under its Sultan) can also said to be a very fair place in how all the citizens are provided for. But, again, it’s because it has rich oil deposits and the Sultan has not had difficulty. I suspect the sultan would baulk at the idea of Green Party ideas.
robbo- money is a tool that is too easily abused if you know how the system works and Isn’t needed to live like air ,water,food and shelter. I would like to see a system where technology is used to further all of mankind by sharing not patenting which prevents true advancement because there is no money in an endeavour it wont be pursued ( as in the search to find a drug to beat cancer not addressing the cause, also see all so called diseases)
Mr Microsoft is knee deep in GMO research which is unneeded and a dangerous game. It has been proven to be no better than time served methods, in fact it is piggy backed onto those methods to sell seed and harmful herbicides. what for? altruism or control of the food supply and profit. war is probably one of the systems best sellers, rarely fought for the right reasons and always with big profit for someone. If socialism is to work it will require a paradigm shift in thinking not more money which is an excuse IMO
John,
I will ask ST75 to pick me up a copy with the £20 he owes me.
AVFC RIP
Are stats really that important when it comes down to it we will see:
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11662/9644799/relegation-battle-in-numbers-all-the-stats-on-the-premier-league-sides-facing-the-drop
AVFC RIP
JL- do you remember when it was first proposed (fracking) and there was uproar and campaigns against it? well the sun ran loads of articles on the matter saying how safe etc it was.
Just so happens the owner Rupert Murdoch has massive shares in fracking and oil companies. There are plenty of horror stories of the after effects in America
Mark,
Yes, last night’s Al-Jazeera documentary was an investigation into what’s happened in the USA.
And we’re a far, far smaller country and won’t be able to take the beating. There have been too many sinkholes appearing as it is.
SWV,
It’s a shock to see that Sunderland have had less shots on goal than Villa!
That explains why they’ve bought Defoe … but he’ll shoot most of his wide of target I expect.
JL- its clear to me that the monopoly of resources and power supply has to be taken away from corporate hands.
What will the media see now, no longer a pro-Lamberk site but a site concerned with the wellbeing of all over the so-called elite. You are ruining football fans image by having level headed discussions on politics, social advancement and fracking.
Can we please for the love of all gods (sorry atheists) get back to traditional stereotypes of talking about football, cars and drink
I’ll get us back on track by suggesting the Passat CC as my next car, what do people think? 🙂
swv- those stats also show that Gabby and weimann are a liability as they rarely hit target. unfortunately so is Benteke at the moment
Mark: its clear to me that the monopoly of resources and power supply has to be taken away from corporate hands.
Ideally, yes. But can we trust government bodies to do any better?
Education seems to me to be key here, and I worry that we have missed the boat here. Our education has for some time been orientated towards data manipulation and making deductions based purely on data.
Go to the Sathya Sai universities in Bangalore … there students are taught ethics as a fundamental basis of tertiary education to know hoe to apply the facts learnt in their subject matter. I believe India will be showing us how to run things in a few years – it won’t be China.
Darren- I’d say the VW engines are not as good as they used to be 😉
RoBBo,
You seem to be confusing the Labour Party with socialists.
Yer right Darren, but armaegeddon is looking a more enjoyable prospect than going to VP.
Jen,
That Youtube cracked me with ‘Arry twitching and Paul Reid is superb again.
I agree JL Education has been too centred on vocation and not producing well rounded concious people. the people in Asia have a completely different mind set and take there education very seriously. they work in groups to solve problems not in isolation, I fear for our youngsters.
It isn’t surprising though with the vedic cultures history
John,
I tell you who I would prefer in front of goal if a chance comes begging Gabby or Defoe, now that’s a tricky one.
AVFC RIP
JL- I wouldn’t give the vast majority of MPs a river to run john, the ludicrous situation of appointing people to posts with no prior knowledge is crazy. bush and foreign policy come to mind 🙂
SWV- I’d prefer a cows arse with a banjo stuck in it before Gabby
I find the whole principle of socialism immoral. One incompetent individual living off the earnings of a competent individual by order of the state. That isn’t fairness. That is enslaving the competent person. Socialism could never work because it is so badly flawed in principle. Punishing wealth creators can never and will never work. Poverty is one of the certainties in life. Trying to end it is as futile as King Canute trying to repel the sea.
Tax is state enforced theft. Whilst Britain was wealthy (for centuries), the rich looked after the poor, not the state. State enforced theft is not the answer. The rich were very charitable in yesteryear. The moral point being that it was THEIR money and they could spend it far wiser than any state. Have a look at the list of charities in Victorian Times. This is just for London alone…http://www.victorianlondon.org/dickens/dickens-charities.htm
Now the rich are so badly persecuted due to an ugly envy culture that has infected society, that their money isn’t spent on improving Britain. It is spent on clever tax lawyers that they need to defend themselves from state persecution. Most of their remaining money goes abroad into tax havens, leaving little for the state. They feel persecuted by the state, so on a moral basis they starve the beast that is the state of every penny they can, largely out of principle. So then the Chancellor hammers the middle and working classes.
I want the rich to pay more into our society and nation, so giving them huge tax breaks to attract their money back is the answer. If tax was low for them, they wouldn’t bother employing tax advisors and would feel morally obliged to pay. High tax and socialism ALWAYS fails. The politics of envy always fails.
Mark – I agree with you on MPs. Scum of the earth.
This Jermain Defoe transfer is utterly ridiculous. £14 million for a 32 year old. Insanity!
Droyd I find the whole principle of socialism immoral.
You STILL haven’t read “Roots of Labour”, have you! 😉
Read that – and material like that – and then you’ll get a fair idea what socialism is really about. At the moment you’re confusing what’s actually happened (through misguided applications) with the ideas of socialism, I think. Two different animals with some common ancestry..
Droyd: One incompetent individual living off the earnings of a competent individual
What is your definition of “competent”, please?
blast from the not so nice past
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/worst-five-months-english-football-thatcher-fighting-and-fatalities-1985?
droyd- If only that were true, I’m sure there are many rich people who are caring but in my experience the majority look down on the people providing service to them as if they are being robbed. there’s a definite superiority complex with many with money that see’s them view others as less worthy of the money they earn. I work for people who are building £1-10mil pound houses, some are earning £500 an hour but think I should install an entire underfloor system for a days labor trust me the rich would definitely not give more on the whole in my experience.
droyd- also most people don’t want to be spoon fed by the state or the rich just a fair share of the Pie.
John – I haven’t read that book but I have a degree in Politics so I know what I’m talking about with regards to socialism. You can make the argument that capitalism hasn’t been tried properly yet as we are living in a society where corporate fascism and state regulation rule. This would however be as silly as saying socialism has never been tried. Theory and reality when applying political or financial systems are vastly different and they start off properly but morph into something completely different. Whatever the system.
My definition of competent is someone that has a degree of skill.
Mark – I agree, the middle and working classes (which includes myself – I’m not a rich man), should be able to have more money in their pockets. They are taxed to the breadline. Nearly half your income goes in income tax. Then you have NI, VAT, stamp duty, IHT, CGT, Vehicle tax, green taxes, fuel tax, TV tax, corporation tax, excise duties, insurance premium tax, landfill tax, business rates, council tax, aeroplane taxes etc.
The state ALWAYS delivers inefficiently so the taxpayer gets terrible value for money. If the market provided it, they have to provide good quality for a good price, like any other business, or they go bust. This leaves more money the taxpayer’s pocket.
We don’t have a “cost of living crisis” as that bell end Miliband claims. We have a cost of government crisis.
droyd- I don’t disagree on the money spent, the recent bailout of the banks is never spoken about but the money thrown at them is now in the riches bank accounts and the gap widens. I don’t think this is an accident but design.
the old saying that give everyone the same money and the same people will end up with it all may be true but, that is only because they take more than they need to exist. they may also see themselves as givers of work/providers but don’t seem to grasp that they wouldn’t be in that position but for the labour of others. take away the supporting structures and your shovelling your own shit. we are all standing on each others shoulders to a degree
Mark – The recent bailout of the banks is talked about a lot. An example of how capitalism is NOT applied in this country. State intervention saw to that. To a capitalist like me, it was an abomination that WE had to bail out this crooked bankers with OUR money.
In Iceland they let them all go bust and jailed the crooked bankers and it did wonders for their economy.
droyd- I know makes you wonder why others haven’t followed
suit, maybe the same reasons Tony Blair isn’t in jail, no culpability as they were only doing what they are told.
Is there anyone that likes that war criminal?
It seems that we are deadlocked in trying to sign Sinclair from Citeh. Haggling over a fee with the player keen to join us. That will probably go to the wire.
Saw rumours on Twitter linking us to Ravel Morrison and Robert Huth.
looks like Lambert has been firing off his economy blunderbuss 😉
Marl
Disagree when you wrote
“Most people don`t want to be spoon fed by the state”.There are thousands,probably millions who do.It`s another way of not taking responsibility for their lives and actions.Educate my children,give me living accomoadation,give me benefits and free health care.Many people expect or demand the state mollycoddles them.In return the state or govt gets their vote.This hasn`t happened by accident,I beleive it is social engineering and has been going on for decades.
brasil- your right when you said educate my children, educate them in what is the question. how to get famous, how to consume?
just when you thought the world was safe here comes Bono
http://www.naturalnews.com/048289_GMOs_Africa_Bono.html
Bono? Eeeeugh.
At least he has now been surpassed as the biggest wanker the world has ever seen by Russell Brand.
Droyd,
I haven’t read that book but I have a degree in Politics so I know what I’m talking about with regards to socialism.
A cousin of mine is a professor in politics and he’s written books on the topic but it doesn’t mean he understands socialism other than in academic terms. Experience vs Theory – there’s a difference.
My definition of competent is someone that has a degree of skill.
So … someone who claims benefits does not possess a skill …. right?
Droyd- having read his book I think Mr Brand is not as bad as painted. the Ideas he presents are from much wiser people and he generally ridicules himself throughout, his politics stem from a more spiritual standpoint not unlike JL’s.
I think sinclair is on £50,000 a week which is the stumbling block not so much the fee
Have followed the recent posts with interest, and often amused at the misguided information that is used, starting from the World Wars. World War 2, was only a result of Europe forcing Germany to pay millions of pounds in retribution after the first world war, and their craftsmen to rebuild all the war damage in Belgium and other places. I saw first hand in Belgium the work these craftsmen had to do for virtually no pay. This caused the German economy to collapse with roaring inflation, similar to that in Zimbabwe, a country destroyed by a madmen and his people. Most of the natives there loved British rule, as they had education, wages, homes and a future, something which has been destroyed by Mugabe.
The priniciples of the Labour government after the war with the introduction of the National Health Service and the Education Act, among others were fine , unfortunately they had no idea how to pay for them, and the country was on the brink of bankruptcy when Winston Churchill was returned to power, who not only put the country back on track, but continued to uphold the principles of the Health Service.
The present state of the Health Service .was brought about by the Labour Government under Harold Wilson, when they introduced the Regional Health Authorities, creating thousands of jobs and spending millions on new offices with computer systems, plush offices with highly paid administrators in charge. I can remember the luxury block built in Solihull for this purpose.
The biggest waste of money in this country is still Government Procurement which was only validated this week in the press.
The biggest waste in Education is the Universities which are allowed to continue running degree courses which have no real value to society, what needs to happen is for the government to give free tuition to anyone who is willing to study engineering, as it is these courses which are our countries future, and young people are not being encouraged to apply for them, as many consider them too difficult in comparison to the much easier arts and media studies. We have very few engineers, and we constantly have to recruit abroad.
The comments above about people and the rights to benefits, education , etc were brought about by my own generation, unfortunately, and the demands for peoples rights, and totally forgetting that people also have responsibilities. The difference in the rich who were willing to share their wealth, is their wealth had grown over generations, and they were taught to share, many of those who have become rich, are the ones who are less willing to share.China and Russia have proved beyond doubt that socialism does not work, because we are humans, and are more interested in protecting our own, before we are willing to share.
As i understand it Defoe is a straight swap for Altidore, so whatever the fee for Defoe is set at, it will still cost Sunderland nothing in transfer fees.
boycott vote
http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7517990
Paul – Some very good points there.
John – “Experience vs Theory – there’s a difference.”- totally agree. In practice Socialism has been a disaster on every level. It is fundamentally flawed. The talented will not tolerate it.
“So … someone who claims benefits does not possess a skill …. right?” – Your words not mine. Someone who is on benefits is living off the wage of someone else. It is now possible for people to never work and be on benefits as a lifestyle. Obesity is now considered a disability. What are we? Slaves for these people?
Had Scotland got independence, they would have been a socialist utopia. And importing Whisky within 30 years.
Paul/Droyd,
I am not going to attempt to respond to all those comments of yours! It would take all night … and a new book to refute most of it if not all of it. … In fact I might do that, but it will in fact take more than a night! 🙂
I’m shocked there are such views around still…
The best one is Droyd’s “the talented will not tolerate it”! Who are you to decide who is talented or not? Did you not ever read the parable of the talents?
Paul P- by misguided do you mean not officially accepted? 😉
It is pretty clear that there are people around who see humankind as merely units of capital and that their perception is that humankind’s value is only measured in monetary worth.
What a soul-less perception of life such people have. And obviously not brought up to understand the teachings of Jesus … or Buddha, Muhammed or any other spiritually great being who (if you were to look at their lives) never had a need to go out to work (once their mission started) and were sustained by the force of life – “life” having a more profound meaning than merely flesh and blood.
And the notion that history is to be understood only by what happened as a result of the preceding single event (Paul’s cause of WW2) is very sadly so short-sighted.
With all this myopia around we’ll all surely go blind pretty soon! 🙂
Anyway, back to the reason for AVL! 😉
Interesting article on the stat of affairs here: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/comment-aston-villa-owner-randy-8450065
John – Being someone that doesn’t believe in Sky pixies, parables from proscriptive scriptures are meaningless to me. I don’t need ancient books from highly questionable religions to guide me. If people do that is their problem/choice, whatever. I have no problem with religions or even people shouting about them, as long as they are never inflicted upon me.
I would like to make it clear that I do NOT measure humankind in terms of monetary worth. Where on earth do you get that from? As a Libertarian, I just want the government to leave me alone. Money is completely separate from humanity. I do not forcefully extract money off anyone, I simply object when it happens to me.
I raise plenty of money for my local charity and in the scheme of things am a big contributor to society, financially and in deeds.
So I find your accusations utterly laughable.
Just to pick up on ‘the talented will not tolerate it’. I think this is a result of the priority being the self as opposed to any community responsibility and human nature/nurture itself plays a part in this. The current ‘talented’ wouldn’t tolerate it because they are self centered, concerned with what they have and have no responsibilty to anyone but themselves and their immediate family.
It leads me back to Thatcherite policies that proferred greed is good and wealth can be based on what you have and if it’s bigger and better than your peers then you are better. There is no celebrated success in being a good person. You can’t judge me without seeing my address or what car I drive or where I go on holidays, these are immaterial to a genuine socially responsible utopia and no way to judge a person and this is the downfall of pure capitalism.
Industrialisation was the beginning of the end in England as it moved populations from sustainable, subsistance living to factory roles, it drove living standards up in terms of things like electricity, indoor plumbing but drove living standards down in terms of healthiness of lifestyle,working conditions, connection with community.
It was a known factor in WW1 that Irish men were actively targeted because they were healthier/stronger than there English counterparts (in general) because they were still living off the land. That and industrialisation being denied to southern Ireland meant we contributed greatly to the cannon fodder of an aristocratic war.
Had Scotland voted for independance, they could have become a nation state and sat at the same table as England because where is the evidence a London government has Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish interests at heart, it probably doesn’t have English interests at heart but you can be gauranteed the larger population and public opinion has a greater influence then a few Jocks, Sheep fiddlers and Paddys have and who is to say in another 30 years and a moral code that says whiskey drinking is akin to smoking, it’s banned and the whiskey industry goes under under British rule. Ireland and Scotland would see a return to illegal stills and a lot more craic
Isn”t gobbledygook a lovely yet interesting word.
AVFC RIP
il- that confirms my thoughts that other managers didn’t fancy dealing with the cut backs. I suppose it also shows lambert at least had the self belief to try, others saw it as career suicide
Darren- sad thing is we have it within our means to return to that way of life while retaining the best parts of this. Shame that people cannot see the freedom in that system
“The current ‘talented’ wouldn’t tolerate it because they are self centered, concerned with what they have and have no responsibilty to anyone but themselves and their immediate family.”
Wow. There you have it. The spiteful envy I previously referred to. How incredibly selfish these people are to want to keep the money that they have EARNED and not be forced at gunpoint to give it to the feckless.
How do you know when villa are shit?
When you check on a villa blog and everyone is talking Politics.
Andrew,
Exactly even the site cat Mittens has nodded off.
AVFC RIP
AVL ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime, build a huge fishing fleet in search of profit and introduce laws that ban that man from catching his own food whilst raping the ocean of a finite resource until your retire wealthy and the other blokes left to starve 😉
SWV nobody stopping you from rehashing some more bad news about villa, how about tallywhacker?
Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life.
Give a man someone else’s fish, he’ll vote Labour.
Droyd 🙂
MK
By misguided, I was leaning towards those who often base their argument on limited facts, an do not take into account the whole picture when looked at by all parties involved.
Disappointed JL that you are so dismissive.of my point about WW2 is an accepted fact in true historical circles that Hitler’s rise to power was as a direct result of him leading the German people out of despair, and that their situation was a result of the war debts etc placed upon them by Europe n the USA.
I am with you Droyd on many things. I have made my own way in life and done many things for charity over the years, and would like to have done more.
With regard to Independence….Be careful what you wish for….In Wales it has meant that yes, there is free education, free prescriptions, but at what cost ???? The Welsh NHS is almost bankrupt, there is a complete lack of hospitals, There is also the fact that the English speaking parts of Wales are left in the wilderness, with no money, While the South and the Welsh speaking North receive all the major funding.
I am certain that the same would happen in Scotland, Ireland and England. What is needed is to stop completely the development in the South for ten years, and the rest of the country to be divided into development areas which have equal opportunities for growth and the right to govern their future.
Darren, very good summary of the changes brought about by the Industrial Revolution.
Droyd,
You have it in a nutshell….
MK
I take it you were a fan of Porkies….!!!……and Miss Ballbricker…..
SHE’S GOT IT!
paul p- I’ll say this about history it depends who’s perspective you take. while travelling in India I came across a museum that was mainly to do with certain events that happened in Calcutta in the time of the Raj. I was reading a book on the subject at the time from a British point of view and boy was there some conflicting view points and facts. so these days I never take so called facts for granted. when people are asked to recall events they very often add things in that they have heard in the interim creating hybrid memories. Plus as I mentioned earlier the victor writes history.
awesome leader JL — on the socialism debate my view is to be able to have a civalised socioty there needs to be a safety net for the many have nots or hard working people who live from pay day to pay day
if this was not the case the whole place would decend into anarchy as when you and your family are cold and hungry many would get to a point were anything goes
there are many self made people that may not have had the best education but are highly motivated and determind — also many that try but dont quite make it — most of the money from the rchest of the population was passed down so they are just lucky — bit like our owner
runtings – That’s the point. Safety net, not lifestyle.
Paul: Disappointed JL that you are so dismissive.of my point about WW2 is an accepted fact in true historical circles that Hitler’s rise to power was as a direct result of him leading the German people out of despair, and that their situation was a result of the war debts etc placed upon them by Europe n the USA.
No, I think there’s a misunderstanding here, Paul.
It IS “accepted” that those events are what created the situation, but what is also “accepted” is that nothing happens in isolation. Indeed, that event occurred because of WW1 and the harsh treaty following it. But then we have to go back to what really caused WW1 … it was not merely the killing of a crown prince but the state of rivalry between the European nations. A rivalry (in effect a jealousy) that was created by Britain and it’s colonialism and dominating the seas with its Navy. And the push for colonialism was manufactured by a Tory prime minister – Disraeli.
Of course, we can go further back and ask what caused Britain to be in a superior position, ad infinitum, but In my view WW1 was created as a result of what I said above, over many years.
Droyd: I don’t need ancient books from highly questionable religions to guide me.
Then why did you study “highly questionable” Politics?
Science and all today’s thinking modifies itself to new findings according to the rules of academia, only to find that their “discovery” has already been stated in one of those “highly questionable books” – usually the Vedas – eons ago.
I didn’t study politics to guide me. I studied it because I was interested in it.
droyd- I agree on the safety net bit. what I think gets missed in the anyone can make themselves a millionaire if they try hard enough is there isn’t room enough at the top to achieve this. therefore constantly getting “look what you could of won” lifestyles and goods shoved in peoples faces as a carrot is bound to provoke a little jealousy.
Droyd the reason i was born in this country is because the railway and bus companies came to Jamaica to recruit workers as those jobs were considered not good enough for a large part of the british workng class
It is not a new thing that there is a whole bunch of people that abuse the system they were born in , but i would say most people are honest working people
There are also parts of the country that just don;t have jobs to offer — the most worrying thing is a large generation of youth that have failed in school – or has school failed them ? and can’t even communcate in a way that will allow them to take many jobs
Paul: I have made my own way…
Good on yer! … So did I. But what has that got to do with it?
Runtings,
I’ve been reading up on Denmark today. With taxes at 50% to pay for their extensive welfare system I’m sure Droyd would get pretty angry if he were living there!
Mark,
What you have said is utter commonsense – I applaud you making those statements.
Live and let live – with the proviso of bringing in better education based on human values – is the only way.
Runtings – I agree with you entirely.
Immigration is key for the economy. However it either has to be controlled or get rid of the welfare state. Can’t have both as we currently do. Hence the £1.4 trillion of debt.
There are loads of jobs out there for people. If there are none in the area they live in then move somewhere else. Don’t live off someone else’s labour.
It’s true that education standards are appalling now. The standard of kids I interview for jobs fresh out of school – wow! It staggers me how uneducated and unmotivated they are.
The best vehicle of social mobility used to be grammar schools. They are very thin on the ground now, although Birmingham has some of the best in the country still. If someone was poor but bright they could have a good education. Envy driven Labour destroyed that in the 1970s, ensuring that everyone has an equally shit education unless your parents were rich enough to privately educate you.
John – Income tax in Scandinavia and continental Europe may be a tad higher than here but they don’t pay anywhere near the level of “sneaky” stealth taxes like we do. Govt takes more from you here. They are just more up front about it on the continent.
I would bloody love villa to sign Thomas Rosicky, i wonder if he is getable.
I cant be doing with politics, there all a bunch of shisters
Rosicky? Where did that come from? I would say highly unlikely
droyd- so the plan is for everyone to live in London? loss of community has had terrible effects on this country as it is. I live in Banbury and every 20 miles I travel south would cost me £50,000 more on a mortgage. it would have to be some Job
So commute.
There are plenty of jobs outside of London. Yours may be niche but I am talking about people on the dole that live of the labour of others. They should move elsewhere where there are jobs. London is not the only place with jobs.
Andrew i am not really into polltricks either but i have my own observations and opinions on the matters discussed
It is vital that certain people come into the country – if you look at farming forv example – how many brit are willing to go and pick fruit and veg for a living =– if you go to most hospitals its like the united nations in there and has been for a long time
Droyd i too have interviewed younsters looking for work — this one kid came in pleading forv work , hsc words were — bredrin need to get off road ,it’s gettin mw down doe , i just wanna make a honest living before it’s too late for me
of course i felt really sorry for him but couldnt put him on the phones with that kind of lingo = like many kids they can;t swtch from street talk to playng the game talk — very sad
Sorry Droyd but you commentated the talented wouldn’t tolerate it in terms of socialism being fundamentally flawed, you made no reference to it being about retention of earnings as under a capitalist government equally tax is taken.
There is no spite, there is no envy as I have my own talent that earns me a salary and provides for my family but that doesn’t negate my social (tax) responsibility to provide in terms of government services that no capitalist company would provide and in aiding those less fortunate than me.
I think you are inferring that taxes are a detterent to work when taxes however much we’d all love to be taxed less provide for services such as the NHS that all including talented people make use of.
If you paid no taxes and paid for private health insurance and that covered the costs of hospital visits, doctor appointments and medicine but ate into your disposable income so much that you were precluded from any charitable donations and the government having absolved itself of providing any services because you paid no tax meant those less fortunate/talented than you suffered, where is the equality in that.
Rosicky was just someone who came to mind when i saw cole is injury doubt for sat.
What is the point of this guy! It’s not like we did not know he was injurt prone to start with and we just dish out a 2 year deal to the the chap….another piece of inspired business sense from the powers that be.
Droyd: “Envy driven Labour” … etc
If you were to read back through the above comments from both me and Steamer, we have not sought to say that the Labour Party is the country’s salvation. It certainly is not, and – believe it or not – even as a Labour supporter most of my life I have met some pretty intolerant attitudes towards me that I’ve had to endure. e.g. in the days when I was running my own business, labour members would say I was not one of them … or “why don’t you speak with a Brummie accent?”. Stupid closed-minded ideas of quite a few – it was a struggle to keep allegiance to that party.
But I kept my loyalty to it for so long because of all the 3 parties it represented to me the *closest* to the ideal of fairness. Certainly not perfect, but the *closest* to fairness.
So I find your notion of Labour being “envy driven” is just a nonsense. But, c’est la vie, it’s your view.
It’s only Britain that adopts the NHS model. If it was so good then why has not a single country adopted this model? Well, because it costs north of £110 billion a year and is a pile of Soviet shit.
Other countries do much better than ours with private medical health insurance. Please do not refer me to America as an example of it going wrong as it is the very worst example. I do NOT want the American model.
Switzerland is the best model for most things, including healthcare. They are some of the most prosperous, well educated, healthy people in the world. They don’t go to war and they aren’t in the EU. They have direct democracy where the people have a say in what goes on by means of regular referenda. This is where I will probably eventually emigrate to because this country has had it.
Fair enough John
Andrew
Cole looks past it I have to say. A pity as he is the right “type” of player. Will be interesting to see how good Gil is. Hopefully the fans will be patient with the youngster. Sanchez took a while to settle but looks quality now. Such assured nonchalance on the ball. Reminds me a bit of Cowans, only less forward thinking but more muscular and energetic.
Droyd: Switzerland is the best model for most things, including healthcare. They are some of the most prosperous, well educated, healthy people in the world. They don’t go to war and they aren’t in the EU.
No … they instead have been home to spurious banking concerns and also have a rather horrible attitude towards immigrants.
It’s a very clean and attractive country though.
have been reading all these comments today and thought i was on the wrong site politics and welfare and socialists and taxes and all that .
talking of the NHS can any of you clever lot tell me why the NHS cannot be run like the bank of England by an independent
board that have complete say and whatever party is in power has no say a budget to be agreed and to be spent by the board that looks after it there fore stopping the NHS becoming a football kicked around by one party to the other as every body who comes to power just changes what the last lot has done and wastes a packet of dough on fu ck all can any body tell me why this could not happen
John – I don’t think it is a good idea to be a member of any party as you have to be “on message”. ie – if you disagree with something but it is party policy, you have to speak up for it. I could never do that. There isn’t a single party that I agree with all things on. I am an individual and I only seek to speak for and represent myself. I would like to see an end to party politics and make each candidate independent so that they would only stick up for their constituents and country and not the interests of a party.
I don’t think we as a nation can criticise Switzerland on immigration or banking
The Droyd at last i agree with something you have said all independent ot look after the people that got them there is a great idea
Conservatives look after their donors and so do Labour. Not their constituents. You get exceptions but these independent minded MPs are confined to the backbenches.
My MP is Labour – Gisela Stuart. She is wonderful. She stands up for her constituents but is confined to the backbenches.
Paul,
I’ve gone away and dwelt on your earlier epistle, with the following result (my comments interspersed with your points in italic):
World War 2, was only a result of Europe forcing Germany to pay millions of pounds in retribution after the first world war,… This caused the German economy to collapse with roaring inflation, …
I’ve already responded on this one.
The priniciples of the Labour government after the war with the introduction of the National Health Service and the Education Act, among others were fine , unfortunately they had no idea how to pay for them, and the country was on the brink of bankruptcy when Winston Churchill was returned to power, who not only put the country back on track, but continued to uphold the principles of the Health Service.
Unfortunately not too accurate Paul. The NHS etc were mainly paid for out of the Marshall Plan – that’s how they were paid for, and the country was not taken to near bankruptcy by Labour. The country had to live within its means, pure and simple. Today’s population would probably have not up with the privations that were imposed in those days, and even then there were too many who became impatient. If they had understood what Labour were trying to achieve there would have been a different outcome in 1951, I’m sure.
As for Churchill, I must remind that he was shocked by the way the election went in 1945 and the Tories changed tack and recognised that ‘One Nation’ politics was necessary if they were to be successful in power again. Therefore, the NHS (seen as a vote-winner) was allowed to stay.
No particular credit to Churchill here. ‘One Nation’ politics stayed in place until Thatcher.
The present state of the Health Service .was brought about by the Labour Government under Harold Wilson, when they introduced the Regional Health Authorities, creating thousands of jobs and spending millions on new offices with computer systems, plush offices with highly paid administrators in charge. I can remember the luxury block built in Solihull for this purpose. The biggest waste of money in this country is still Government Procurement which was only validated this week in the press.
I’m not going to argue too much on this as you’re probably right, or near right. But I would defend what happened then as a symptom of the general political left-wing thinking at the time, being under close scrutiny by the unions etc. It could be said that the policy he brought in was not wrong but the way it was implemented.
The biggest waste in Education is the Universities which are allowed to continue running degree courses which have no real value to society, what needs to happen is for the government to give free tuition to anyone who is willing to study engineering, as it is these courses which are our countries future, and young people are not being encouraged to apply for them, as many consider them too difficult in comparison to the much easier arts and media studies. We have very few engineers, and we constantly have to recruit abroad.
Again, I am not unsympathetic to some of this with the addition that emphasis needs to be put on apprenticeships. I was unhappy when Blair targeted 50% university placement, A nice-sounding ideal but not practical.
As for “degree courses which have no real value to society” that may be partly true, but I think we have to be careful about this – can we always be sure what is real value? The very fact of having stuied any subject at a high level may intellectually qualify a person to do a job that he might not otherwise been able to do too well. Not everyone can do well in “value” subjects.
The comments above about people and the rights to benefits, education , etc were brought about by my own generation, unfortunately, and the demands for peoples rights, and totally forgetting that people also have responsibilities. The difference in the rich who were willing to share their wealth, is their wealth had grown over generations, and they were taught to share, many of those who have become rich, are the ones who are less willing to share.China and Russia have proved beyond doubt that socialism does not work, because we are humans, and are more interested in protecting our own, before we are willing to share.
Yes, responsibilities must come more into focus, and it could be that events that have been taking place since 2008 have caused a re-think among many. Better education in human values would help.
China and Russia have *never* implemented true socialism. We have been indoctrinated by Thatcher and co. to think they were, but that’s not true. No true socialist would have supported what Stalin did to his own people, for example.
John – As a Labour or ex Labour man, who in your opinion is the worst Prime Minister we have ever had?
I can’t decide whether it is Gordon Brown or Clement Atlee.
Droyd,
I’m a loner in some ways so fitting into one line of thinking is anathema to me also, but I just wanted to give it a try. I was partly successful in being heard but then the big boot came in… One minute you’re a favourite and then you’re the enemy! Similar to what happened to me at Villa Park really! 🙂
John – The point about socialism is what it morphs into. Human nature takes an ideology and corrupts it. Always.
I think the idea of socialism is abhorrent and immoral. You think it is fair. Both point of views are irrelevant. It’s what it becomes. It’s what humans do to the ideology in practice.
Droyd,
Clement Attlee was very good i.m.o. I can’t really think why he should get too much bad press.
Although I agree Gordon Brown was not suited to being prime minister, I’d say that the Tories were very weak under Anthony Eden and Home. Major was on a par with Brown i.m.o.
Droyd: The point about socialism is what it morphs into. Human nature takes an ideology and corrupts it. Always.
But that cannot be true if the *original* blueprint was to be effected. You must read “Roots of Labour”..
… and having read what you’ve written I certainly would never vote Tory! 😉
I wouldn’t anyway as I just cannot agree with hardly anything they do – particularly towards the poorer-off.
I won’t vote Tory either. Cameron is an EU loving social democrat. I applaud what Gove and IDS have done but Cameron has broken a lot of promises, falling back on the being in coalition argument.
I have so many things on my list of books to read. It’s just finding the time. I will add it to the list John, so I can see your perspective. (One day).
Anyone joining in or not joining in with the protest on Saturday? I refuse to condemn those that protest but won’t be joining in personally. Besides I am entertaining a Scouse client.
droyd- I do commute it stinks, I know companies in yorkshire who have to travel there to work its where the money is. A lot of jobs pay so little they are next to robbery.
Lambert is asking the people next to the people protesting not to let them leave their seat, this should be fun 🙂
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11677/9646149/premier-league-paul-lambert-urges-aston-villa-fans-not-to-protest?
bit of gil training
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4420174,00.html?
I have just been called a sheep on Twitter 🙂
JD- on the NHS, they would probably cut funding regardless who was in charge. better Idea would stop selling us shit food
and dangerous pharmaceuticals 😉
droyd – and hows that feel for you?
Does it count as protest by staying for an extra pint before going in??
Lambert is clearly starting to feel the pressure, begging for fans not to protest! It’s laughable really, he should be locked away for crimes against football, he is to Villa what Blair is to politics, both lying scumbags
Runtingz is right – and state education has failed many. Why should a kid from a rich family have a far superior education to the kid born to a family on the breadline . There are a lot of clever kids at state schools who will never get the opportunity to achieve their potential because of the class sizes etc. There are a fair few of thick kids at private schools who will get good jobs not through their “talent ” but by the accident if their birth . This isn’t envy either Droyd , I have one at private school and one who went through the state system so I know first hand . Having a two tier education system is morally wrong . Forget the Libertarian “choice ” some kids never get that far to have choice , like their parents before them.
Precisely my point Jenny. Grammar schools were that vehicle for social mobility for the bright but poor. Labour got rid of them with envy driven ideology making everyone have equally rubbish education unless you are wealthy.
An example is my Dad came from nothing, was Grammar school educated, did well in business and was able to educate me at a minor public school in Worcester.
In today’s world he would never have had that vital educational advantage being from a poor background,
Same story with Grammar school educated Margaret Thatcher
New Lamberk would make it out that the protests are against Randy and not him self
I hate the man so much and hope it’s his last game on Saturday.
Droyd: Labour got rid of them with envy driven ideology …
Of for goodness sake! Will you never stop uttering this !!! … There’s no envy here. One of the big issues about grammar schools is that they require an entrance examination and it was felt that not everyone was up to it at age 11. I wasn’t – I remember being sick as a dog but I had another chance at 13 (but for entrance to technical school) and got through it that time.
To get over exam nervousness can require a lot of training for children not used to it (and they weren’t back then). Those that often got through at 11 were given extra tuition and plenty of it – in families that could afford it. THAT was the main rub – there were not that many who could find the means to support extra, private, lessons. From that point of view, comprehensive schools were a good idea. Again it would probably have been a better idea if some of the grammar school ethos was carried on, for all to benefit.
droyd- I went to a comprehensive in Tamworth which was very good, strict but you got the results. At 14 my family moved and the school I attended wasn’t even half as good so there are different quality schools out there.
forgot the eleven plus, got the required result but ended top stream in a comp instead of a grammar, feck knows why
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015/01/15/report-everton-and-villa-trying-to-sign-atletico-madrids-christi/?
John – I take your point about 11+ but that was no excuse to abolish. It WAS ideologically driven.
Mark – Yes there are some good comps. I’m from a small village called Hagley and the school there has always been good.
People from poor backgrounds are however now at a huge disadvantage compared with the past due to the abolishment of the Grammar schools. It’s a great pity that this vehicle of social mobility has been removed by the supposed party of the working man.
The free schools that have popped up under Gove are doing very well, free from state interference, so there is some hope
Mark – Frem will cream his pants when he sees that link.
A link to a winger!!!
Has to be bullshit though. Lambert would never sign a winger
Droyd,
11+ – ideologically driven, yes (of course, why not?!) … but not out of envy.
Ner, we won’t sign a winger . They actually create and score goals. Lamberk won’t be having that .
What exactly are the planed protests for Sat? I will be joining in what ever it is
Big eck has a 18% win record, Lamberk 26. Second worst manager in the clubs history
frem- not the first time he’s been second
“I don’t want Aston Villa fans to come to Villa Park – or even away from home – and not see the team win or not be entertained.”
Is this bloke sane ?
phew that’s all right then Doug thought we were in trouble
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015/01/15/ex-aston-villa-chairman-sir-doug-ellis-explains-clubs-struggles/?
You can almost smell the desperation.
He’s still talking as if its all about him and not what he’s doing to the club.
The media ( Barring that knob Gregg Evans, who doesn’t count ) has turned, unfortunately Lerner isn’t bothered so it looks like cheerio to the Prem and hello to the middle regions of the Championship.
swv- havent seen a mention about droyds article in the press
reckon we got away with it, wait until they see mine hope Matt likes it ” Paul Lambert and why he should be Knighted and Randy Lerner made a Saint”
I’m currently busy on my why Joe Bennett should be captain article…
Lambert presser, looks like delphs staying and Lambert coaches the forwards, figures
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4420454,00.html?
Its weird because some of lamberts signing i really like….okore, vlaar, cissokho, sanchez, bacuna, tekkers and westwood…..it should be an ok side. Maybe we should make lambert a scout and get a decent manager to set the team up and motivate them!!
andrew- not a bad call
steamer- when the reporter asks him about the 8min protest he asked what it was about? the reporter bottled it and said its for Lerners 8 years not they hate you. so I’m not surprised he answered the way he did
Andrew, I’ve been thinking exactly the same. Lambert has been our most successful manager for some time for finding talent. . . . he just doesn’t seem able to organise or motivate them to win games of football.
Mark, I’m not sure the reporter bottled it. I’ve seen various explanations for the protest. Some are saying it’s not about Lambert, but rather a general protest about the state of the club
robbo- we’ve been robbed, we’ve had fall outs on here about the wrong idiot 😉
Think he meant –
“I don’t want Aston Villa fans to come to Villa Park – or even away from home”
Half a dozen mmmm, what about the other twenty ?
100% Lambert AND Lerner.
I shall be making my protest, at 8 minutes past 3 i’ll order my 8th pint.
droyd/Jl what do you think of this
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/08/inner-city-turmoil-and-other-crises-my-predictions-for-2015/
also have you seen anything in the news about Venezuela,
apparently there’s no food in the stores due to economics and oil prices dropping?
apparently the 8 minute protest is about the 8 year Lerner has been in charge
I thought watching for 82 minutes was harking back to happier times. . .
Mark – I LOVE Ron Paul. He is the embodiment of a Libertarian.
Venezuela – Has some of the world’s greatest natural resources. However it has been subjected to socialism and is therefore on its knees.
Contrast capitalist Chile. No natural resources to speak of. Thriving economy – ordinary people are much better off than in Venezuala
Chileans would take issue with you Droyd, copper, salmon, wine are the main exports and are natural resources but yes Chile is second to Australia as a thriving economy in world rankings
Mark,
Yes I think so looks like we dodged a bullet although I threw a few of ST75s twenty pound notes around the press box you know how these journos can’t resist a bribe.
AVFC RIP
Back to catch -up ,
Droyd,
Agree with you having read part of Ron Paul, to realise he is on the right track. So glad you have manged to stir this site into it’s greatest activity for a long time. i am with you on Grammar schools, which gave working class kids like me a decent education. Interesting how much money the Labour government poured into new comprehensives at the time, whilst starving the grammar schools of any investment. the more pertinent facts are that mot of us here are from similar backgrounds, and have similar values, but have used different vehicles to follow to hopefully achieve our hopes and dreams.
As you say Droyd, no political party offers all the answers, and most fail to match their promises, once elected.
It is also interesting how people change as they rise up the ladder.I remember being closely involved with Johnathan Aitken, when he was a young 21yr old candidate for the Conservative Party in Meriden, when Sir William Dugdale was chairman of the local Conservative Party, later to become chairman of the Severn Trent Water Authority, and Aston Villa Football Club. Johnathan was a really nice and regular kind of guy, but obviously changed into a hard-nosed business man as he climbed the success ladder and took control of TV-AM, whilst to me, Sir William never really changed, and remained a gentleman.
Back to Villa, felt that Lambert gave his most honest interview to date, and did not dodge the questions, but stopped listening , once Jack Woodward took over questioning….he should be shot..as a total a**e licker… and the whole interview suddenly has more clarity of sound..?? Don’t Villa want everyone to be heard the same?? Looking forward to Saturday to see how everything pans out…
JL… Pleased that you are able to accept some of what I say….would point out that I never felt I knew enough about WW1 to comment on it….
Lol, Lamberk as scout. Rumour has it it was Mcliesh that scouted Benteke.
Anyway, the protest is against Lamberk to and I hope the fans make that clear. If it games a 3-0 defeat to get him out then so be it. A 1 nill Winn and he will get another 4 year contract
Droyd- I like Ron Paul too, has a lot of integrity, if all politicians were half a good the world would be a better place. If you read the full article you’ll see he’s predicting The USA to go to hell in a hand basket soon. this bit is particularly true and used over here too.
“Military personnel are idolized, and, if any one raises a question on whether or not all soldiers are universally “heroes,” that person is accused of being unpatriotic, un-American, and unsupportive of the troops. In fact, the real heroes are the ones who expose the truth and refuse to fight foreign wars for the international corporations. Disengaging our troops from around the world and refusing to defend American neocolonialism is pursuing a course compatible with the qualities that Americans claim to stand for.”
Paul P- I suspect as people rise up the ladder they become separated from there original intentions/roots and see them selves as apart from the public they serve. of course getting stick from said public doesn’t help. I liken it to joining the police force, I’ve seen people who were good friends walk by you in the street in uniform once they’ve joined. their friends become coppers and they disengage from old ties and look upon the public with disdain and suspicion. Not all mind you, I know several that have never changed.
swv- Lambert looked the calmest I have seen him until the lady reporter asked some awkward questions such as are you going to get an attacking coach, he went straight to touching his nose and covering his mouth mode.
MK,
Your piece on Military personnel brings home the words of Donovan’s Universal Soldier…….which is so true..
Only the world as voters, can change the future..If you do not vote.. nothing can change…
Droyd- one other thing, ron pauls ideas are not a million miles away from Russell Brands proposed systems, people running thing locally for themselves, including there work places, councils etc, not from one central dictate. Like him or loathe him its a shame this society will only listen when someone a little off the wall speaks, if only to ridicule.
Paul P- can you be sure your vote is even counted? America have a poor record on that and unfortunately your voting for different shades of Vanilla here
apparently we have a new signing called bare bones and he plays at the back
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/team-talk-aston-villa-boss-8457724?
Mark – Brand is a publicity seeking leftist moron. He wants to destroy capitalism and make people pay even more tax. Ron Paul is a capitalist, that thinks income tax is immoral and wants to completely abolish it. Although they are quite different personalities, Paul is on the same page as Farage on a lot more things than Brand.
Brand – wants to destroy capitalism but please buy my book about it for £19.99. Laughable.
droyd- have you read it? he is more against corporations than capitalism per se . he believes in people having control of their lives much as you do, localised organic food etc but also with a strong spiritual not religious grounding.
depends what he does with the money he earns from the book doesn’t it? this is after all the world he has to operate in.
Mark,
A lot is said about injuries but we are not that badly off according to the physio room
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php
Five players out but only two of those are regular first teamers, we expect Cole to be injured in fact we could rename him Joe Cole Out, its our ill discipline that does not help but you always get that when you are struggling.
Looks like we are relying on possibly the youngest player in the team Gil to come to our rescue, I think that is a dangerous game to play.
AVFC RIP
Paul: i am with you on Grammar schools, which gave working class kids like me a decent education. Interesting how much money the Labour government poured into new comprehensives at the time, whilst starving the grammar schools of any investment. the more pertinent facts are that mot of us here are from similar backgrounds, and have similar values, but have used different vehicles to follow to hopefully achieve our hopes and dreams.
What’s wrong with spending money on trying to achieve a type of schooling that gave everyone a chance and not those that were just good at passing the 11+? … You surely support the idea that everyone should have equal opportunity in life?
Some people seem to slate the Labour Party on spending , yet the intention has always been for the greatest good. HOW the money has been spent and the standards obtained is another thing, but there have been good comprehensives.
Gove is also now accused of havlng filtered funds from the kitties of other schools to pay for his free school project, why not have a go at that waste of resources? Especially as his free schools have come into criticism of employing non-qualified teachers.
The issue to me is that we want all to be educated in the best way and according to the talents of each. I am told that the German system is most effective, so maybe that is what we should have been looking at all along?
Yeah we can’t expect too much from Gil to start with, although I can’t see how he can do any worse than the crap we have had in the final third of the pitch in the last few weeks.
SWV- an okore and baker duo doesn’t fill me with joy as neither is a leader. Clarke has begun to show this as did senderos . At least Cole can get to know vlaar better
Droyd,
Feck me we finally agree on something this could be a special day.
AVFC RIP
Suggestions for Russell Brands book profits –
1) Buy a bar of soap
2) Buy a razor
3) Buy some clothes that don’t make you look like either a tramp or clown
4 ) Buy a Two Ronnies DVD
And then piss off and live somewhere thats interested in your BS.
Is this clown for real ? does he actually believe that the demo is totally against Lerner and nothing to do with his own failings ?
Read in yesterdays i that in Denmark they ALL pay 5-% tax, free health, free education, pay the unemployed to study, 80% of last wage paid for the unemployed for two years, no wars and the happiest nation on the planet.
See he’s rambling on again about his ONE year in Dortmund and his European Cup medal and how he never quits ( unless it suits his bank balance ) what a total winker.
Sorry 50% tax.
And Venezuela is on its knees not because of Hugo Chavez but because the have impose sanctions and de-stabilized the economy, well they’ve destroyed everwhere else in Central America so why not ?
Maloney deal broke down, will we ? sorry, forgot he can play footy.
Steamer: … no wars and the happiest nation on the planet.
All thanks to Nelson! 😉
And no Villa there either, i’m off.
steamer- on mr Brand, is it just the fact he annoys you you don’t like? and now you are speaking for the entire UK when are we invading Poland? is it when its empty? 😉
thank god I had the foresight to set up that villa shop on the web in azerbaijani
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-azerbaijan-bid-rumours-8460009?
big Ron for El presidente’
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-need-director-football-8460654?
http://www.myoldmansaid.com/response-paul-lamberts-concern-holte-end-demonstration/?
Mark,
Apart from being a talentless gobshite who’s become wealthy by ?? who really gets on my tits and puts on a phoney accent to ingratiate himself to the dumb cockneys who actually think he’s amusing and even a intellectual then i suppose he’s ok.
Droyd,
I think every one of your posts ultimately finishes with a remark about finance, a typical capitalist approach to life, not everyone is as fortunate as yourself irrespective of how hard you work.
‘When it comes to talking about what helps Villa win, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.’
End of argument
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fnews%2Fbrian-reade-column-aston-villa-4979624&ei=SS65VNaaPIO8aZeUgfAO&usg=AFQjCNErIbdCdEjow1cDSpxlwm4Q9wsE-A&sig2=sHvDqhrH7lxWli4u0Cl66w&bvm=bv.83829542,d.d2s
Apologies if this has already been posted – but it seems that the protest is getting plenty of coverage. I heard Shay GIven (ex keeper /bomb squad/assistant manager – now PR man) talking to Alan Brazil begging the fans to call it off. Isn’t that what you call an own goal – publicising it to thousands of TS listeners 🙂
steamer- he was born near wet spam mate, maybe reason enough to dislike him, he thinks highly of your mate Castro. My biggest dislike if I have one of his book is he uses some feckin big words which are not really needed, thank feck I read it on my Ipad as I could look them up as I went. If its a message to the masses they better be well educated masses or it will pass over there heads at an altitude brushing the stratosphere.
read it yesterday jen its a right shotgun blast to the foot for Lerner. did you see at the bottom of the article that it said droyd loves Paul Lambert only slightly less than Russell Brand? 🙂
I must admit this statement has been puzzlling me
Paul Lambert “Whoever has planned it, I hope the guy next to them tries to keep them on their seat.”
This has been on the radio and in the press.
It just shows what a useless outfit we have at AV. Paul Lambert hasn’t even been briefed properly or had the sense to find out what exactly the protesters are going to do. As MOMs says – its not a walk out its a stay out.
Or does he mean “keep them on their seat ” in the bar so they don’t have to watch the remaining 82 minutes of the game. Second thoughts, he might be onto something there 🙂 Good advice afterall. 🙂
Having watched his interview he was so nonchalant when they mentioned it I’d say he doesn’t look at any media.
Just checked it out once more Jen,
and the voting is pretty damning…..91% in favour of fans protesting, against only 9%, saying we should be there to support.. I reckon there will be a huge Police presence at the Holte End entrances tomorrow, which could add to the situation.There could be a problem that after the 8minutes that there will be a surge to get into the ground, and letting thousands in at the same time may create serious problems.
This could turn out to be just the tip of the iceberg, in relation to Villa’s problems, not least with the FA. Can’t control your players, and now can’t control your fans, which could end up with Villa being ordered to play their next home game behind closed doors….
Linked to Matt Jarvis now! Dear oh dear.
Just seen the official site,and my words could be true. Leicester have been fined £20,000 and Villa have been referred to an Independent Panel.
Wouldn’t advise taking kids tomorrow, my pals lad were supporting the Lambert Out majority last week and a few knobs decided to pick on them, shame they picked on the wrong lads and got battered. There’s gonna be a few incidents like that tomorrow IMO.
I won’t be protesting but I respect the rights of those paying their money to do so.
The shit we have had to watch the past few years has been unacceptable. Whilst the protests will do more harm than good, I have every sympathy with the fans’ frustration as I share it.
It will be interesting as to whether the Police will allow fans to loiter outside the Holte End, or whether they move them on, and away from the ground. Perhaps the protesting supporters should gather on the Aston Grounds until they are ready to go into the Holte. I doubt that the Police will allow fans to actually picket the Holte End entrances.
For once there may be more media presence outside the ground, than in. Hope it does not develop into a situation like in the “Mad City”!
I’m off for a Balti in Sparkhill tonight so that I smell as bad as the bin dipper I’m taking to the game tomorrow.
Of course it won’t make a blind bit of notice to our situation, you have to actually have people who care in the major positions at the club, how many on our staff are Villans, i know a few, how many players are Villans, again, a few, i don’t include Scabby who’s only in it for the money and can’t be bothered to break sweat for the club, how many Villans are in a position to change things, none, so basically its pointless except as a PR exercise to show what variety of slime not to allow into your football club and the damage that they can do.
I think iv’e mentioned that i think Lerner will inflict the most damage he can on the club before he sells once he can see his $$ coming back, from what iv’e read and heard he’s a vindictive twat who hasn’t yet taken the final steps to adulthood, the sooner these three wankers are out of AVFC then the sooner we can work out if we have a future, never mind one in the PL.
Steamer – You are right. It’s all about what RL thinks. He owns the club entirely. He is in America so he won’t see any of the protesting. He has lost interest completely and is waiting for the right offer to come in. As long as we don’t get relegated, he isn’t in the slightest bit bothered how we do.
We have no chance of finishing in the top 10 under these circumstances.
PP,
Of course the police will do whatever the club tells them, at the end of the day they’re going to do exactly what Lerner wants, not a case of right or wrong, it’s a harmless demo, i think they’ll inflame the situation and it’ll turn nasty.
Basically i think everyone should stay away, even better stay away every game.
Don’t think we have chance anyway ( of staying up ).
I’m lucky enough to have an owner that hopefully sees the long term,” he said. “But all I can do is try and win games because that’s what I’m here to do. What else can I do with it?”
Crazy as a fuckin coot
Steamer,
I agree with you that the situation, especially with Police involvement could end up having the opposite effect, and create more from what was, as you say, a peaceful demonstration.
The Mails really on the ball with their revelation that an Azerbaijani may be interested in buying the club, only about TWO weeks old, Christ that papers a mess.
PP,
Are you going ?
Droyd,
Make him feel at home, drop him a massive D’oyley Carte so it smells like the better parts of Liverpool.
Steamer,
My plan is to be there tomorrow. I enjoy the pain…..and the expensive beer….stops me drinking too much…
Mark – PL might not read much or take notice of the 99% garbage that’s written but this is hugely different . As manager he should make sure he knows exactly what the protesters plan to do – and prepare his players. The more familiar they are with It, the more easily they can get on with their game . Also , his comments just make the club look incompetent again .
I also think RL will be very concerned because of the club sale. Protestinv fans are a pain in the arse and not a great advert to prospective buyers.
If we lose then the protest will be vindicated and the discontent could expand rapidly. If we win , the protesters are going to look silly , even though a win changes nothing , but that’s the way it will be judged unfortunately .
I meant “pain in the arse ” to RL btw. They have the right to do what they think will improve the club and so if it works then all well and good . But I hope it doesn’t get nasty and the supporters come out as being the Villans (excuse the unintended pun) as most observers have no idea of how this has come about.
I’m not sure why they didn’t do it before or after the game as does anyone where they will be congregating. It’s worrying for safety reasons .
Also is it just the Holte coming in on 8 or the whole stadium ?
It seems just the Holte – why not involve all sides ?
supposed to be the holte jen, as for Lambert should know, no chance I think they take exactly no notice. also I can see a 10 -15 delay to the match and a fine.
Judging from the kind of comment made by Lambert, it sounds as thougb he believes it’s small minority of people who are motivated by doing this. And he probably feels that it’s just a phase – it will blow over.
Well, I hope that it does ‘blow over’ – but only by *he* bringing results and entertainment back will it ‘blow over’ I imagine.
It will probAbly be a damp squib , these things usually are . The media attention to the fans discontent is at least a step in the right direction though .
anyone seen this in the news?
http://www.naturalnews.com/048313_currency_war_Russia_petrodollar.html
A good read indeed John, thanks!
Nice to see some of our young players are doing well and may deserve some minutes with the big club.
http://provenquality.com/daniel-johnson-aston-villas-loan-midfielder-impressing-oldham/
UTV
ronnie- johnson is back in our u21’s
http://www.blog.fantasy5live.com/2015/01/16/3985/?
Mark
The Natural News article is interesting. I think, though, the reason the Saudis have moved to bring the price of oil down is more to do with forcing American shale oil producers out of business. When they’ve done that, they’ll slow production and the price of oil will rise again.
That said, a general weakening of America will lead to great instability and greater risk of global conflict. China has the most to lose in any global bloc economic war, which is why they won’t help Russia there. The US and the EU are still the biggest markets for their exports.
Shouldn’t we be more interested in this kind of news…
http://io9.com/two-weeks-into-2015-and-co2-levels-are-already-scary-1679470852
… but, of course, Natural News counteracts that alarm…
http://www.naturalnews.com/040588_carbon_dioxide_environmentalists_Al_Gore.html
But CO2 influences global warming surely, and that’s changing the Earth in very significant ways.