Well, what can you say, besides ask….Sherwood out?
In such a vital game, the starting IX seemed a strange selection from the manager, with Grealish in but not with Gil. Bacuna moved up into midfield with Gana. Gabby back in the side. But as odd as it was, Villa went 1-0 up from Gabby to Ayew, and it looked as though Villa might finally break through for a crucial three points. Even more important than the points, if possible, was actually winning, finding a way to play 90 solid minutes.
But a silly foul from Richards just a few minutes later gave Swansea a way back in, and Guzan probably left too much room for Sigurdsson, who equalized from the free kick. Gil eventually came in, Traore, too, but Villa couldn’t find a goal, and Swansea did. On replay, Richards let the ball carry across the face of goal for the other Ayew, although I’m sure he felt he was only going to put it in the net if he did make contact.
Another one-goal defeat, and now we wait to see if Sherwood really did have to come away with the win he promised today.
The players worked hard enough and arguably deserved something, but that means nothing as Villa fall further adrift.
Where was Sanchez? Where was Veretout? Why didn’t Gil start with Grealish to cause more problems? The attacking intent was there, the effort was there, but it still didn’t seem as though Villa’s best IX were on the pitch.
Me, I’m gutted…I really thought Villa, with so much on the line, could find a way to see it through. But in the back of my mind was always the lurking doubt that Villa had left themselves too much time to give it away again…Would fail to find the requisite steel to clamp down and hold on to what they’d got.
And of course, they did. The lack of cohesion was apparent again despite some decent passages of play, but you have to ask why change things up again with so much on the line? If Bacuna, who acquitted himself fairly well, was brought in for this game, why hadn’t he been deployed similarly earlier on?
This seems to be Sherwood’s failing so far, not settling on a formation and side and sticking with it to get a basic side together all on the same page. When the chips were down, Villa could not keep themselves organized enough to snuff out the limited threat Swansea had posed to that point. Instead of pushing on, Villa again succumbed to a more cohesive side that had more answers.
So over to you. Is Sherwood done? And who would be coming in if he is?
The Author
John Clark
John is co-owner of AVL, and has followed the Villa since the '70s. A journalist by trade, he is, by most accounts, a very nice person. You can follow me on Twitter @JClarkKohoutek. It's an astonishing experience. Or a complete waste of time.Comments 187
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Written to Jenny, but now also in response to the match write-up (thanks John!)…
In certain players there was more fight … but we do need a player or two that can do what the likes of Swansea do!! If they can do it then we should do it as well.
Either we have midfielders who don’t know how to play that game, or just they’re not (yet) good enough.
I think the fact that Tim has said we will win this game – and that we didn’t – must surely be the death-knell. I’m very sorry really … I think he could turn it round but too many broken promises do get catch up with you.
Thanks John I feel your pain,
Its a cup final, we go one up, do we bring on sanchez and take off Gestede take the heat out the game and possibly hit them on the break as they push for an equaliser? nope not on your nelly
Very accurate assessment John.
I think that not only the supporters have been worn down by the last six seasons but TS looks like a nervous wreck, i’d move him on for his own health because when those Spurs fans start abusing him he’ll just crack.
Predictable result, TS picked the wrong team yet again as everyone on all of the blogs have stated.
This just can’t go on, but left unabated it will, we could possibly lose EVERY game remaining. We all known Lerner and Fox are ridiculously stupid but even they must have twigged that something is not quite right. I think that TS will resign and, heaven forbid, Wilkins will become caretaker. Just sack the lot and drag some itinerant off the street, could they do any worse ?
The supporters actually sang ‘We want Lerner out’ after six years,how perceptive our fans are.
JL-
Yeah, you make such a bold declaration…Don’t know that it did Tim or the players any favors. That would’ve fired me up if I were Swansea player.
Steamer,
Agreed totally about your comments on TS.
About the selection – I don’t agree. I may be one out of a thousand, but I think he chose what he thought is Villa’s strongest and most able side and I don’t think he was far wrong – if at all.
I think we mainly…
1. lack a midfield of enough ability
2. lack a sustainable defence (beyond 60 minutes). Yes, Amavi should have come on at 60 minutes.
Clark should come back pdq in my opinion … at least he plays with pride and determination.
Veretout’s absence is a bit of a mystery, but I do suspect a domestic issue there.
Mark…that’s exactly what I would’ve done. If not Sanchez, then Veretout or even Westwood. Something extra help to clog things up, fresh legs to chase things down.
Adama, like Ayew, has to start if you’re going to get anything out of him. He comes in, tries to do too much. And we couldn’t even find him. Gil was dropping very far back to get the ball, leaving a large gap to cover to get to Gestede.
Ayew was playing hard, he’d have been fine up front on his own.
But again, too many passes falling short, too many times trying to play in tight space instead of just doing something simpler. And not enough bite in midfield, too easily pushed off the ball.
JL-
I think the trouble for me is that if that is his most able and capable side, why haven’t we seen it before? And why stay so open with so much on the line?
I probably agree about Clark, would be time to see him back in.
I’ve no doubt Sherwood thinks a side should keep attacking, and in principle, I wouldn’t disagree most of the time. But it seems to show a pattern of putting an ideal before the reality of the situation. It was very much like the Leicester collapse, all in all.
The same players could likely have seen it out, but they got scared, conceded the middle of pitch needlessly, and kept backing off instead of really mixing it up further out. I could see Sherwood imploring players earlier to push up. We needed a battler, and I’m sure Gana was tiring.
48 hours left for TS, perhaps…
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/24/report-suggests-future-of-tim-sherwood-at-aston-villa-will-be-de/
According to SKY the players had a ding dong in the tunnel after the game, Gestede had to pull Richards off someone. Wonder who was behind this one ?
JC: “…if that is his most able and capable side, why haven’t we seen it before? ”
Partly because of injuries …?
Gabby has only just come back, and Traore (who was very quiet) … and if you’ve got a completely new squad to all intents and purposes, then you probably have to sift through them over several matches. … Particularly if you’re not sure you’ve got all positions covered properly. TS didn’t buy this squad by himself, let’s not forget.
I’ve been saying that Gil and Jack on the field at the same time is not a very good idea, and TS seems to have come to that conclusion.
But I’ve been quietly in agreement with those who have said that TS has been learning his trade … so there’s that component to go into the pot as well.
JL,
I don’t really have any sympathy on a professional level, his comments after the game were designed to ruffle feathers, he slated the fans, the players and the board finishing with “i’m not in a hole, the club is.” He wants his pay off, simples.
By all accounts he omitted the new signings that he didn’t approve and played the ones he wanted just to make a point, childish but that’s Sherwood for you. As far as i’m concerned he can go, possibly on a par with Lambert as the worst manager in our clubs history.
JL-
There are things I understand about the selections, but I just can’t see how Gabby, Grealish and Ayew playing together in that formation for what must be the first time this season is known to the best side. Likewise, Bacuna coming in.
Not saying it couldn’t be the best side, although I’d have doubts about that, but it just seems strange with so much on the line to have left the midfield so light.
And I thought Bacuna did well enough…But that middle pairing was absolutely brand new.
I don’t know what’s going on with Veretout, but I’d have tried starting out the season and these initial games with a 4-3-2-1. Gana, Sanchez and Veretout, Grealish and Gil, Ayew. See if I couldn’t have got that side to gel and then messed with things from there.
Steamer-
It may well be that he’s angling for a pay-off instead of resigning. I don’t understand how a new team is supposed to come together if they don’t play together.
Veretout has drive and the willingness to carry the ball forward. Gana is steady. Sanchez can be a very good player, though he does have strange lapses. Ayew is more versatile and covers more ground than Gestede. Grealish and Gil’s creativity are wasted without a mobile forward to make runs and do something with the ball at his feet.
Full credit to Gabby for the cross, but the shot he sent harmlessly wide earlier with Ayew, I think, trailing in wide open…I think the cross was really Gabby’s lone contribution.
It’s just baffling and very frustrating.
First the good news, someone found Tom Fox, now the bad, he refused to do an interview for radio.
Not only clueless but cowardly when confronted with their responsibilities.
John,
Well they do a lot of training together so I assume that TS saw the possibilities in training in certain ways, combined with impressions of players on the pitch.
I wouldn’t think for a minute that they’ve not worked in training together along certain lines.
And as far as I could see it didn’t work that badly … except for the weaknesses that are inherent and not much to do with team selection, i.m.o. I think we need to accept that no matter what team TS selects, there are basic individual weaknesses, even in what should be the most experienced players.
Not saying that TS got it completely right. He didn’t – especially on the issue of the subs and who should/shouldn’t have come on.
Thank you for the write up John and like you say , it was a big blow to the stomach after we took the lead .
Have just listened to Tim in his post match presser. I felt sorry for him – as it was heart felt and honest
Being interviewed after such a devastating defeat can’t have been easy but he sounded completely dejected – so much so that he said “we are just not good enough” and you got the impression he felt overwhelmed by the whole thing
He also said he couldn’t fault their effort – and I agree. They gave their all – but it wasn’t quite enough .
It was a confusing interview and offered little hope.
The most worrying thing was Tim saying he had to encourage them not to hide in midfield “because they are scared stiff of playing here”. This has been a problem for the last five seasons – and Tim’s “they’ve got to stop being scared” may not be enough . They were booed off at full time – The fear of playing at home Will be the albatross round our neck .
We lost a lead yet again – and whilst lack of organisation played a part , I also think fear did as well . This game has been billed as a “must win game ” by Tim and pundits alike . The “must wins” become “can’t loses” and ranks the pressure up. It’s too early for must wins or cup finals – their morale must be rock bottom .
It could have gone either way – Sigurdsons free kick was sublime – nothing we could do and both Ayewgoals were similar . I’m afraid we couldn’t fault Tim or the players today which makes it more alarming as we are left wondering , like I’m sure Tim is “what next!”
JL-
You would think that, but training is training…Just didn’t seem the day to switch things up again.
Although I will grant you, it looked to have worked for a moment.
JC: “I think the cross was really Gabby’s lone contribution.”
Well, here we go again. 🙂 The thing is that Gabby has been popping up creating a goal here and there, and at least he’s doing that. But apart from direct scoring contributions he does make himself a nuisance and in fact I saw him lay off some good passes. I was particularly looking out to see what he did, so I’m glad that you brought up the matter! 😉
Considering it was his first game back he didn’t do so badly. And – note – after he went off they had more space down the right.
JC,
Well, that’s the important thing isn’t it? If it works (or nearly works) why break it!
Jenny,
Nicely written. I (nearly) agree with all of that! 🙂
Steamer: “i’m not in a hole, the club is (Sherwood).”
He’s right, isn’t he? He’ll be OK, but (as you’ve said) what this club management have been doing this last 5+ years is spiralling Villa in the wrong direction.
…Tim and his successor have inherited a terrible record at VP (unparallelled in the club’s history) .
Hello all.
Must admit I was watching NZ beat South Africa in the rugby.
After Sherwood’s promise, must say I was disappointed with losing again. Yes, we’re only losing by a goal, but they look like losers in general and have the second worst goal difference in the league. The table doesn’t lie, Villa is 19th and deserves to be there.
However, I still believe Villa have the potential to do much better, which they probably will if management get their act together.
All Blacks to win the Rugby World Cup next week.
Jenny-
They do seem to be terrified playing at home, agreed, and it’s gone on for a while. I think that’s why I’d probably go with strength in numbers in midfield. Go with the bite, make things hard, create a sense that you’re going to be tough to beat, that you’re not going to find yourself isolated.
Sherwood certainly didn’t help by heaping pressure on with his comments.
Bottom line, I just can’t believe that with all the changes you can really expect anything to work. I think you have to stick with something…if Tim had done that up to now, it would be easier for him to see what wasn’t working. That’s when you start tweaking things.
Confidence isn’t helped by being picked and dropped before anyone has a chance to settle. But I can’t say I have any real answers because I still don’t know any more than Sherwood what the best side is.
JL-
I agree with the second half of what you say…If it works (or nearly does), then don’t break it.
But we’ve been losing by the same margins, and in the same ways. If Sherwood stays in the job and sticks with this side, that would be a different thing. Lots of things have been nearly working.
I agree with John L – the selection was brave and Tim was making a point. He wants to play attacking football and admitted he had made a mistake in going too defensive . So much so , he’d sought advice from ex managers who had told him “go for what you believe in”. This is good so far .
The problem is it may be too late as he’s gone against his instincts previously (eg Bham, Stoke) and confused the team – changed it around so much , because he’s got no experience. It all comes back to this and it’s held the team back and lost the supporters .
Had he started and stuck with this attackjng formation from day one we’d have seen more confidence , greater player/team connection and more points on the table. Maybe it was losing the two goal lead to Leicester that gave him a wobble resulting in a more cautious and reactive style . We weren’t that bad today – it’s just such a shame this game didn’t come earlier in the season so that we could have built round this playing style . the bottom line is the premier league is no place to learn on the job – what was Tom Fox and co thinking of appointing novice manager .
Anyway, good as always having such a good group to commiserate and try to figure things out with. We’ll see what happens.
Off now to head up the road to Boulder to visit my son and watch some American football.
Here’s to one of us finding a solution by the time I get back tonight!
John C – you posted whilst I was posting mine . I think we are basically saying the same thing 🙂
Oh, and before I go, agreed, Jenny.
Set out your stall, and give that a chance to come together. I’m okay with either philosophy, but you’ve got to stick with it. Leicester probably did shake confidence, but that was surely when Sherwood showed a lack of tactical sense in not trying to shut things down with a two-goal lead. And he had Grealish and Gil together, scoring goals.
Haha…yes, we are! Great minds…
Steamer – I noticed Richards and Ayew were really hot under the collar st the end – I thought it was the swans who’d wound them up – hope it wasn’t in fighting
Enjoy your son and the football John 🙂
Thing is haven’t we looked ok in several games this season? only to change team in the next.
That aside Sanchez on for gestede amavi for Richardson were the min subs. Gil for grealish not the worst call as Gil is a little like Westwood busy but with the ability to beat players. Yes we lose a forward but we become solid in the middle (swansea ran straight through the middle for the free-kick and first goal and straight down the Right wing for the second) and have pace down the left and up top so still a threat to an advancing side.
I would like us to use a more fluid attack and that might mean losing gestede. Ayew through the middle Vertout and gana or even Gardner getting beyond grealish and gil give them options to play in and off of.
I’m afraid as much as Tims enthusiasm was infectious his quivering lip is even more so when what the team needs a strong leader protecting their back, Its not their fault, they are useless isn’t good enough. He is also to inflexible in his thinking imo.
Steamer reports that Fox has avoided a radio interview … and the papers already seem to have wind of some decision being made in 48 hours.
I rather suspect that the rumour put round a couple of weeks ago had some basis.
Therefore another manager looks likely, with Wilkins i.c. – against Southampton on Tuesday.
Whoever comes in has got a BIG uphill task. And to help the club the real fans will have to give their total support for the rest of the season.
JL
Yes, fan support will be so important for Villa, a team lacking confidence.
BTW, a good leader. Thanks JC.
Gestede
Don’t know whether you’ve noticed but he’s got a football brain … not just a head for nodding goals!
A couple of times I’ve noticed him playing very good passes either through the middle or to the wings – with his feet.
I suspect we are not playing to his abilities at all to speak of. I feel he’s potentially a far more dangerous player than we might think. And not just a target man.
I feel that he and Ayew may have a great future together if they can find out how to play as a twin force.
JL,
When the going gets tough the Villans always stood firm ( in the past ), i don’t know about this lot, its not like 1967. I’d sooner have that crowd with me than these.
JC,
When Grealish and Gil were scoring their goals against Leicester they did so a lot with Gabby’s help!
And (for whatever reason) Leicester started that game as though they were trying to figure us out. They almost looked apprehensive. But (as though we didn’t know) it was proved that when they go behind they start fighting … and the subs we brought on made it easier for them.
Generally though, G & G on together leaves a less well-defended middle. Not that we have great defensive midfielders anyway.
Steamer,
Yes. Good point.
Mark – Agree Amavi to come on as sub – not sure he wouldn’t have got pelters for bringing on a defensive mid for a striker though / he would have been accused of trying to defend a one goal lead for 40 mins . I think he left Rudy on in the hope we could score another .
Villa till i die, im villatill i die. Bring on the championship. 2 games a week, we will be on the tv more often than not, and i reckon we will do ok in the league. Just pray to the gods we can re build under a new owner and moyes as manager.
There is no way in this world our current team can survive in the prem….with tim which it wont be or with ancelloti in for the rest of season.
Like i say….best outcome new decent owner, moyes and re build in the championship
JL- On Gestede I agree but Tim has only seen his head it seems, its a shame and I feel he probably feels the same about Kosak. There is more to this team and I really hope we get someone with real talent as well as at least 5-6 years of actual management experience. Would rather we don’t go down the plug up the pitch route as it won’t work with this team. I think this team can mix strategy’s, the whole get the ball to one man is not how we will survive IMO.
On Leicester, they did the same for the next 2-3 games going down and coming back don’t think it was just us.
If we get a manager that looks like he knows what he’s at the fans will be fine
Jen- 28 mins plus stoppage 😉 I don’t think he would as this was a cup final, a must win, you do what you need to. A goal was coming one end or the other before we scored so nothing wrong with that change as we had 3 forwards on the pitch anyhow. Its all part of the Timmy experience reaction instead of pre-thought out action.
Mark: “On Leicester, they did the same for the next 2-3 games going down and coming back don’t think it was just us.”
I thought that’s what I inferred? In fact Leicester had come back in previous games to draw matches.
On TS
I honestly believe that if he is going (and it looks like it) I think we should say “Good luck Tim” and move on and not harp back to what he might have done. It seems to me that most have their knives drawn and all because he’s still in apprenticeship mode. One way or another we all have to learn, and in my own life I mostly had to learn on the job as that was all there was.
His appointment was (of course) down to the board, and his initial enthusiasm was contagious and carried us for awhile. We should thank him for that, I think, after 5 years of mostly sterility.
JL
“And (for whatever reason) Leicester started that game as though they were trying to figure us out. They almost looked apprehensive. But (as though we didn’t know) it was proved that when they go behind they start fighting … and the subs we brought on made it easier for them.”
Ours was their first big fight back up until then that the media went mad over they then repeated that unless you count being 1-0 down to Bournemouth 😉
JL I don’t think anyone blames Tim for being inexperienced no matter how it may look, I’m just gutted an opportunity has been lost.
goodnight folks off to watch a film all the best and fingers crossed
Some powerful quotes in the media after that performance
‘A club shedding its dignity ‘
‘Grandest institutions into a swamp of mediocrity’
Such a crying shame what is happening to this football club
And Tim. Why? Where did that team selection come from? In last two home games, two games we were desperate to win, we have gone from playing three at the back against Stoke to playing with only one midfield player against Swansea.
Of dear Timmy – expect a phone call from Mr Fox on or before Monday.
All this talk of Tim being the victim… He doesn’t know how to manage a match! 1 up so stick on Sanchez and Westwood! I’d also replace Kieran with amavi! 4th time this short season he’s cost us the points! UTV
This is the premier league, the best in the world with millions at risk! Go manage your kids’ team if u want to apprentice! Thanks for saving us and the cup run but the wheels fell off after Liverpool last season!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stan-collymore-launches-another-scathing-10326481
why are we waiting lerner
for once do the right thing
cleveland browns fans promised this when he took over and they where right by bucket loads
lerner biggest prick in america living on daddys money
but still doesnot excuse sherwood as a manager after the last 3 teams and formations put out round pegs in to square holes a better team not playing today his treatment of kozak
out with sherwood and a dam big brush and you no what i am sorry paul lambert you are not our worst manager sherwood wins hands down for me look at his record 12 defeats out 14 against pl oposition unforgiveable
Almost coped with the Swans until the silly free kick .only Guzan did not know where it was going. Poor tactics and substitutions again. Gabby missing a sitter early on. Word. From inside is that TS was finished today and Moyes is appointed from Wednesday. Could be worse.
Doesn’t this all seem surreal, the comments especially I mean are Watfords players world beaters? are Leicesters? Swansea’s? are even Chelsea’s?
http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7519633
No, Mark. You’re absolutely right. We’ve got talent.
In years past, I’ve often argued in favor of McLeish and Lambert’s tactics…Just keep it simple and stay up. That’s the remit they were given.
Insofar as all the teams we think we should beat, it isn’t that cut and dried. When you’ve got a mixed-up side versus a team that’s been together, fought hard…They’re not mugs. They know who they are and what they’re trying to do.
Villa? We don’t know who we are. Or what we’re trying to do. The manager has to stamp some identity onto the starting IX.
Sherwood got found out! Doesn’t know how to select a team, make proper subs/adjustments and you don’t criticize your peers not disown/discredit your players! Since the big win over Liverpool he’s been way below the standard! Not many do meet the standard! It’s the premier league! Even Jose is struggling now!
Collymore Speaks Out (Aplogies, Jenny, just thought it worth showing the whole thing)
The club’s a shambles. One of the problems is when you have a structure that is so poor. Villa had Paul Faulkner, lovely man, as chief executive. Lovely man, met him many times, completely inept when it came to running a football club.
Tom Fox, met him for a drink in the summer. Lovely man, very nice guy lots of American football shirts and basketball shirts in his office. Talked the talk, inept. Came from Arsenal on the marketing side, goes straight into Aston Villa as a chief executive.
Paddy Riley, the chief scout, the guy that helps buy the players, hasn’t worked well under any football manager.
So when Tim Sherwood got the job I said ‘Is this the right man?’. I wasn’t sure because he was a rookie.
But knowing the goings on at Aston Villa…
Hendrik Almstadt, that world renowned football genius as a director of football, that came from the marketing department yet again at Arsenal, is the man recruiting players on the ‘Moneyball’ philosophy.
You get what you pay for.
At Aston Villa Football Club ever since Martin O’Neill walked out the door the clock has been ticking. Six seasons now it’s been near the bottom of the table. I feel for fellow Villans up and down the country and around the world that have to watch that dross week, in week out.
But the manager is the end point. He’s not the beginning point, but he’s the point where all of us as football supporters, go. It’s him to blame, his decisions, his signings his tactics.
Randy Lerner, Tom Fox, Mr Almstadt, Mr Riley – if Tim Sherwood goes, you go as well.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/
I think Tim will remain in charge you know.
I’d hope he won’t, but i can see him being manager on Wednesday still
Rodgers I think would be great for our players. Moyes maybe.
I won’t go to Villa if Pearson is manager
JC: “Villa? We don’t know who we are. Or what we’re trying to do. The manager has to stamp some identity onto the starting IX.”
Agreed, but I’d prefer we play with a starting XI!!! 😉 😀 😀
Sorry – couldn’t resist that!
Ronnie: “Go manage your kids’ team if u want to apprentice! ”
Is that altogether fair? The squad he’s effectively been given demanded a big manager to look after. The management knew damn well that Tim is a rookie yet they gave him that task.
It’s always easy to blame the manager (and he’s not without fault), but we should be thinking of the entire situation at VP. As Collymore has shown (and Steamer has often said), it’s a total shambles.
That’s ok John 🙂
I really wish Stan had said these things earlier . Most ppl on this site weren’t fooled by the Arsenal pedigree of Fox and co that RL clearly was .
The decision to appoint a novice manager , Paddy Riley chief scout who has failed with with Mcleish , Lambert and Rodgers and now with Sherwood is at the foundation of our current crisis .
Who would give a three and a half year contract to an untried unproven novice – who doesn’t even have all his coaching badges.
They tasked him not just with taking over as manager but completely rebuilding the team : with zero experience . Why ??!!
That we are at crisis point is evidenced by Tim Sherwood’s demeanour and conflicting and contradictory post match press conferences. It’s very uncomfortable viewing and I was shocked to see the sky interview in which he contradicted his earlier ones and looked so broken. We have seen similar in McLeish and Lambert.
Tom Fox has to take action evsn though it does high light his massive error in giving him a contract in the first place . Could this be the sticking point in him not putting everyone out of their misery ? Self interest and a refusal to admit he was wrong . If this is the case Randy Lerner should fire the lot of them before they do any more damage .
It has to be immediate because
1. We have 29 games left to get 36 points – frightening – on the current form we would end up with 16 !
2. Tim Sherwood is now unwittingly demoralising the team by saying “they’re not good enough / we don’t have enough quality / we can’t carry people / they can’t be scared.” Etc It is because he has no solutions – he is an apprentice himself , how can we expect him to
3 He has admitted his players are scared to play at VP . This being so , why did he rank up the pressure on them by saying it was a cup final (bad memories) and must win game. He should be taking the pressure off them not adding more
4. The team look unhappy, deflated and confused . Too much experimenting – they may still like him but do they believe in him as a leader – doubtful . Do they understand his formations , what he wants from them. I saw Richards trying to explain to some of the players yesterday – they looked beeildered. Even Jack was issuing instructions to the team to get forward. The message isn’t getting across .For the reasons above he is breaking their confidence not bolstering it
5. Tim’s response to yesterday’s defeat is to “try a few more new ones on the big stage at Southampton ” Please no – we will be ripped apart by a team that beat us 6-1 last away fixture there.
Are we going to fling more new players into a high pressure “must win cup final game” to be told “they are not good enough ”
Stan is right – it is an unholy mess . But Stan has also gone along with it .
Before the season started he was tweeting things like “villa fans are in for a nice surprise “. (Oh the irony ). He changed from Sherwood was too inexperienced to he’s the right man for the job ” I seem to remember him being impressed with the slickly suited Arsenal crew as being an improvement on Faulkener.
What reduced the impact of his excellent article is the fact it has been written in response to his match day column being scrapped and the club can respond with “it’s sour grapes”. This doesn’t make what he says in it less true , I think he is spot on. It just lessons its impact .
For the record , I didn’t agree with the Sherwood appointment or the Lambert one. Lambert and McLeish were left too long at VP and Lerner must learn from his mistakes and let Tim go now.!
Sorry for being so long winded
PS
What is Stan on about RL must go as well . Stan knows that RL has had the club for the best part of 2 years. He wants to go – there’s no question of that . These sound bites from Fox and co about him having renewed interest is vacuous PR. He clearly isn’t hence the remit to stay in the premier league and spend as little as possible . Nothing would please RL more than getting shot of this headache across the pond , as that is what it has become to him. What is Stan saying RL should do – give the club away ? Take 100 million less and sell it to an outfit that couldn’t afford its true value ? We could end up like Blues , even worse than we are now . Would Stan sell his house for half the price because his neighbours didn’t like him? Of course he wouldn’t .
Added to this is that if the Lerner family trust has part ownership of the club (I think it was mentioned somewhere) it would be unlawful for him to sell it at undervalue as the trustees are regulated by US trust law.
I agree with Stan , Fox and go have to go but to suggest RL has to is simply ignoring the obvious. He is the owner , it is up for sale and he is entitled or even legally obliged to get a fair market price. We are stuck with Lerner until he does .
Good write up Jen,
We mustn’t forget Herbert’s part in the destruction of AVFC, the bloke leeched off Villa for years making millions and then sold us to an idiot with previous ( The Browns ) while rejecting the mob who are throwing 100’s of millions at Man City. If Ellis had done his research he’d have known Lerner was a plank, but then he may not have kept his name on the Witton Lane stand and other benefits.
Lerner needs to grow a pair, spend a couple of months in England and find out how real football clubs are run, not how he imagines them to be. Tom Fox is not the man for the job, ignorant and arrogant, boot him along with Sherwood, Wilkins, the Jeerman, Parks & Robson. We need an infrastructure that knows the English game and a manager with some sort of track record , someone who can unite the club DESPITE Lerner, not with him. Saying that is easy, the difficult part is getting both the idea and the new men to raise the poisoned chalice.
It’s easy – Steve Stride where are you .
You’re right steamer – we have a Directors crew with no footballing creds – is this why they picked an inexperienced mgr . Did they put their own self presevation and egos before the good of the club . Were they really taken in by Sherwood’s chat and bluster ? Were we ?
A more experienced manager would have exposed their ineptitude . It’s why insecure inexperienced managers go for young players who don’t know better than them : insecurity.
The new man must make his terms clear – and if Fox and co are to stay , (which they don’t deserve to ) he takes all decisions in recruitment and management . He must be experienced in all aspects like David Moyes. Forget the number crunching stats ppl – that’s failed.
It’s our only chance .
Very true, will it happen ? not a chance.
sorry guys but after watching motd sunday supplement goals on sunday ,kamara is brilliant at breaking down things
sherwood has to go that team yesterday was a joke and going by jd the bookies when they seen villa team sheet cut odds on swansea winning
yes our club is rotten from head down lerner fox reilly german guy but they didnt put that crap out yesterday sherwood did
don t know guy on sunday supplement raved about amavi another said had been dropped for richardson last two games look on face says it all
goals on sunday kamara
guzan stood behind wall could not see ball so he should been further over still might have got it but did anyone honestly think swansea wouldn t score when got free kick
second goal where was our shape last few mins sherwood to blame richardson left with 2 done nothing anyhow,showed richards shouting at hutton to take ayew hutton was nowhere bacuna same wrong side
gabby sorry john l one assist is not worth place in team didnt see first half but going by reports at least 1/2 good chances wasted plus before our goal ayew was free gabby hit wide USUAL
i know we have said anyone but houiller,mcleish lambert but really do think sherwood is worst ever ,nothing his fault we lost last 4 last year as well with benteke vlar delph cleverly
sherwood out as soon as possible get some one in to organise and drop dross guzan hutton lescott richardson gabby for starters stop conceding last 5mins
Terrific posts, Jenny .. I totally agree but for this bit: “[Lerner] wants to go – there’s no question of that . ”
He has said (hasn’t he?) that if he can’t sell then he’d just welcome another chairman. Meaning that Lerner would stay under that situation.
I frankly don’t understand how that would work, it would be even a more riotous situation I’d suspect. But there’s another thought … maybe he changed his mind a second time and has decided just to stay in the shadows and run the club from afar.
I dunno. It’s a horrible situation, and even worse than Doug’s period in office i.m.o. At least with Doug he could be seen and even talked to.
A fans’ takeover is the only worthwhile development in my view … but will that happen? Probably not.
Jenny: “Did they put their own self presevation and egos before the good of the club . ”
My own experience was that the management there only like managing what they understand – which (footie-wise) is precious little.
Sherwood sacked
No faith in Fox or RL picking the right man though
John – I agree – with RL it feels like we continue to walk on moving sand . He hides – even Sherwod had to go through the marketing man and never spoke to him .
I still think he wants out – the clubs a constant headache – he doesn’t need to remember what his money on it . We go down and it wipes a a huge chunk off its price.
Must be a relief to Sherwood .
“Invest his money” should v said !
Kevin Mac taking over as caretaker so looks like Ray gone too . I thought KMac was at another club ??!!
Get Rodgers or Moyes
Not Pearson
And thanks Tim for keeping us up and Wembley Semi
Shame but he wasn’t up to the job ( is anyone ? ). I don’t think TS will manage a top level club again after this experience.
Chuffed that fat imposter Wilkins got booted.
Although he has his doubters i think Kmac will bring stability to the party, let the players know exactly where they stand.
I think Bob Bradley is nailed on, very highly qualified, good contacts in several countries and most important, he’s American.
Well said Frem, it wasn’t all bad.
pay offs lerner is a genius at it
mon
houiller incoming and out going
mcleish same as above
lambert gets new contract after 4 flukey results
sherwood
sorry steamer frem apart from first couple matches it has been a disaster last 14 matches 12 defeats leaving out capital one cup
honestly think if lambert had got 50 odd million would have done better and who is to blame for ayew been turned down bylambert at 2.5m bought 9 months later for 8m they need to go as well
Morning folks, I will probably get pelter’s for saying this but is Riley and stats man really the problem?
At the start of the season Many didn’t rate Gestede, he’s shown he can score at this level and is improving. Ayew looks a different player, Amavi has shown he has class, Gueye is a decent DM, Adama has hardly been utilised yet, Sinclair can score goals , I could go on but are these players as bad as they are being painted?
I don’t think they are, so was the method they were chosen by also useless? Riley identified Benteke after all, a one off? maybe but plenty of the players we were in for were being chased by other prem teams, its not like they were so below the radar they were invisible. Vertout chose us and was chased by Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs bet he’s happy now.
where the players brought in under Lambert all down to Lambert? they managed to survive being in the prem for 3 seasons. Was that Lamberts guidance or because they were much better than what we have now?
Is what we have seen more a result of Tims inexperience than the players? If you look at some of the matches where we looked decent then collapsed you have to say yes IMO. Bewildering starting 11’s and subs is my over-riding memories of this season along with the cock-ups and collapses.
Its one thing to take a prem team and gee them up, its another to build one from scratch. Watford have Quique Sánchez Flores on a 2 year contract vastly more experienced than Tim and I’m betting he would make a better fist of this lot.
In my mind Fox chose Timbo, maybe the so called money ball approach can turn us up our own Flores or Howe?
well I didn’t know he’d gone but thanks Tim for your effort and the odd magic moment all the best for the future.
Pleased…………..something had to be done.
Disappointed……………………I liked Sherwood`s selection initially,out of his depth.
Fearful and apprehensive…………… of the next appointment,the same clowns who keep appointing failures are about to select again.
With Big Sam and Pullis in work ,we are in the scheisse.Now is not the time for building and “looking at potential” we need a pragmatic,ruthless individual who can keep us up.Therefore,and I agree this time,Prem experience is essential,which narrows the field somewhat.
Sherwood`s appointment was typical of modern society.All hype,showbiz and selfies.No real substance,planning,consideration or knowledge applied to the selection process.Only self promotion,soundbites and back slapping seemed to be the criteria for the position.Now,here we go again,the same people who keep letting us down have to go through the process once more.Who in their right mind would work for these clowns?
Do we trust them to get it right?No.
The decision will remove a lot of negativity surrounding the club and hopefully the players will respond. The atmosphere at VP & BH must have been toxic.
Like a lot of fans i actually think that we have some good players, good enough to finish half way in a full season, whether we can do it with what remains of this season we’ll see.
I wonder if the idiot will fund new signings in January ?
Bielsa for me, international reputation, managed in several countries as well as international level, speaks good English and very principled.
so tims gone as he . well l never wanted him from the start nd l did say on here when he was appointed , and if right then fox chose him, did anyone listen to 5live this morning . interviewing Gus Poyet about chelsea and was asked about villa manager , he said he had this week to make up his mind if he was taking a job abroad and had not heard off any premiership team , but he said he was very good friends with TS , so he’s friends with Tim who is mates with Fox who could also be mates with Gus . all london connections ,
well lm off to the pub for a few ciders , god help us with Dumb and Dumber picking the new manager . couldnt they do like what all big companies do and go through an agency , they couldnt do any worse . cheers all
Jenny hope your felling better gorgeous xxxxx
McLeish in as manager and Lambert as his assistant with Houllier as DoF.It wouldn`t suprise me.
James G- your point about Ayew, the season Lambert turned him down he was played RW and did little so £2.5m fare enough and fare enough reason not to sign, him could go either way. Last season plays as a No9 gets 13 goals and numerous assists now an £8m player and we go back in, can’t win them all I suppose but it show’s the value of the system does it not? Arrives at Villa park back to Winger figures.
Hello brasil- I don’t think prem experience has served us well, I want to see a man that uses his noggin not just his mouth. I don’t think Bradley would be the worst apart from being American and all those connections with fox and lerner bring.
The way the old boy network came in to support Tim just reminds me of a bunch protecting themselves. Its as if ones failure makes the chances that the others will be found out.
Hey Mark.I see your point and agree in part with you.One of Tim`s mates-Lineacre-calling the decision insane.The old boy network is alive and thriving,nowhere more so than the media.Expect Ts to turn up on MOTD and Sky a lot.
I wouldn`t mind Bradley.I dislike BR mainly because of who he has managed,but he might save us.
Brasil- Isn’t the definition of insane doing the same thing and expecting the results to change, you have to wonder what they would say once the season was over and we went down, who’s fault then? the management for picking Tim I suppose not Tim himself, I hope to heaven we get the right man this time and I don’t care if its luck, we must be due some surely? or have we used it up 🙂
makes you wonder where other clubs would be now but for an appointment that went right. SAF at utd, Clough at forest, Wenger at Arse, Saunders at villa, Jose at Chelsea, pepe at Barca. If other people had filled their shoes at the Time history would be different. Or they may have ended up somewhere else without the overall success they had or they would shine wherever.
Well according to professional knob Gary Linacre the sacking of TS was ‘insane’. I’d like him to qualify this statement, 8 defeats in 10 & bottom of the table. Its a wonder this crawler didn’t describe TS as successful. I still haven’t got over my vomiting attacks when he crawled around Willie Windsor before the CF, Your Highness this Your Highness that, where’s your self respect you crawling knob ?
Can expect him on MotD, “well Timmy, not your fault those nasty Brummies didn’t believe your BS, you were always too good for them, where next United or Barca ?”
Slumberland 3-0, well Fox was told about Sam, too late again.
Steamer-The only thing that’s insane is we don’t have a Jurgen Klopp lined up.
Treacherous Dwight has thrown his cap into the ring, no qualifications, no experience, no loyalty, can’t string a sentence together, absolute dickhead and a lowlife, sounds just the person.
Steamer- Sunderland beating Newcastle is as predictable as young girl get drunk at works party.
Fook me this would be a laugh while it lasted, Dwight Yorke wants the job
http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/25/former-manchester-united-striker-dwight-yorke-throws-his-hat-in-the-ring-to-become-aston-villa-manager-after-tim-sherwood-was-sacked-5460980/?
JL,
You have made some very good points and we effectively have our community back! The problems clearly run much deeper than Tim but I did lose respect for him as a leader so he did contribute to the problem and had to go!
I hope Moyes is en route.
UTV
Remi Garde
Yes Frem!
Speaks French and English and knows English culture and the premier league! Technically adept as a player and will get the best out of our predominantly French speaking talent and discover more. This is globalization so on rolls the French Revolutuon!
Moyes is the safer bet but the plan seems to build long term with a wenger or houillier type figure, interesting!
UTV
Remi Garde favourite with the bookies.
Well no smoke no fire, doesn’t look like the worst choice, money ball here we go again
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-arsene-wengers-protege-would-be-perfect-man-rejuvenate-newcastle#:wTZIifxbwgnSRA
Remi Garde would be an excellent appointment..or Jakob Michelsen of Sonderjyske..He is doing wonders in Denmark..fed up with the British managers
And Richard S he would bring a touch of Oh la la to the Villa fashion revolution Tim started
Thanks for asking steamer 75 – got fully blown women’s flu here – but an excuse to watch the tv and send Liz shopping and scout our next manager. Xxx
I know nothing about this Remi so imagine my surprise when I looked on wikI just now
Open main menu
Edit
Personal information
Full name Rémi Garde
Date of birth 3 April 1966 (age 49)
Place of birth L’Arbresle, France
Height 1.75 m (5 ft 9 in)
Playing position Defensive midfielder
Defender
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1987–1993 Lyon 145 (22)
1993–1996 Strasbourg 124 (3)
1996–1999 Arsenal 31 (0)
Total 300 (25)
National team
1990–1992 France 6 (0)
Teams managed
2011–2014 Lyon
* Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only.
† Appearances (goals)
Rémi Garde (French pronunciation: [ʁemi ɡaʁd], born 3 April 1966) is a French professional football coach and former player. He is the current manager of Aston Villa. During his career he won several honours, including the 1997–98 FA Premier League Championship, and was capped by the France national team.
So according to wiki we have a new manager . I know anyone can change wiki but no smoke without fire and all that .
Garde way
……………. back four plus
………………..sanchez/gardner…………
……..Gana……………………………….vertoute
………………………..Gil/Grealish
……….Ayew/sinclair………..Kosak/Gestede
Jen- part of Southampton money-ball approach for want of a better name is to scout managers and have at least 6 options ready in case. Wouldn’t surprise me if thats what is happening, I certainly don’t think fox will make the choice off his own knowledge again.
Garde’s current employers Canal plus reckon its a done deal.
B6: “Fearful and apprehensive…………… of the next appointment,the same clowns who keep appointing failures are about to select again.”
That may well be the best truth said yet.
I really fear for the future of the club.
Some clown on the radio just now was saying (after Villa had gone bottom), “well, now the only way is up”.
Huh?
Exactly Mark – continue the money ball philosophy – go down the French route. No premiership league experience – 3 years managerial experience. It’s like the clamour to appoint G Solskaar – look how he turned out at Cardiff . Just because they’re foreign doesn’t make them better and what we need is maturity and premiership experience . Remi is too conveniently fitting in with the criteria which is killing us – cheap – novice – youth development (aka cheap ). We don’t have the foundations to be in the Southampton mould yet. We need a manager to stand up to Fox and co and teach them . This Remi hasn’t got the gravitas to do that . It would be as bad as appointing Sherwood.
Only managed for two years.
Jenny:
Full name Rémi Garde
Date of birth 3 April 1966 (age 49)
Place of birth L’Arbresle, France
Hmmmm … I was staying in France when he was nipper, in that area.
I remember training a kiddie in Villa footie ways back then, I wonder …?
Rémi Garde
… but despite the coaching he got from me, he has no Prem experience nor anything like the level of expertise we need.
I’d say he’d be fine to take us down … and then to bring us back up.
Strong Arsenal connections / I’m sorry this is a ridiculous appointment . Another puppet for Fox and co to hang out to dry . They should have offered Moyes a package he couldn’t refuse . Three years managerial in France and he’s fit to take this massive club on ??!!!!
Bonkers . The players need a strong experienced manager to lead them . It will be another blind leading the blind .
I’m glad that the villa board acted decisively to attempt to change the current situation rather than the slow death we endured last season under Lambert . Sherwood had his shot , he was’nt up to it , simple as !
Dont fancy either Moyes or Rodgers for the job , their confidence has to be seriously shaken and they need to hit the ground running at Villa . Dont know enough of Garde to judge him.
How about the current manger of Helsingborg , very inexperienced manager but one of the most intelligent players i’ve ever seen . He single-handledy made Celtic into giant-killers and uefa cop runners up. He exuded class both at Barcelona and man u for short stint. I know its a massive punt , but i would take him in a heartbeat for manager , at least it would show we had some ambition and balls!
Do I really need to name him ?
Fine to take us down full stop John . Then we will do our usual and pay him the £6 million combo for the pleasure
John if it’s the same person you owe it to us and him to say no ! 🙂
JL judging him on his Lyon days you may be right. He could also prove astute as he can get what he wants over better than Tim did and his philosophy looks like it would suit the group. If you read or have read the 442 link above he was Wengers go between explaining his tactics to the team whilst playing, that appeals to me, he has a brain.
I’m getting a persecution complex – this reminds me of when GH went and we got AM. It’s a “you thought that was bad – we can do worse ” situation . Sherwood a poor replacement to Lambert and now this .
You know Jenny…
I think you’d be the best candidate. Mark’ll be your media man, Steamer can make the coffee and I’ll be a hanger-on!
Mark – like Tim he would do better to start his premier league career lower down . He hasn’t enough on his CV yet IMO
Mark: “…he has a brain.”
Right. Good!! Great!!!
And his next qualification is…?
Mark he may have played the get what I want card at Lyon but this is AV we are talking about . It’s too big a step up for him .
Prox: “I’m glad that the villa board acted decisively to attempt to change the current situation rather than the slow death we endured last season under Lambert .”
Pardon me? I thought Lambert made us endure slow death for 2 and one half seasons?
You couldn’t make this shit up. I’m just sad about the whole thing. The only Remi I know is the one who can kick footballs across some canal into a dustbin. The next 4 games are going to be tough for who ever comes in. Will they be able to overcome that? Not likely. Remember grant holt? He’ll be manager before the year is up. Might as well get Jim Carey from pet detective.
I suppose that would be a matter of opinion John. I was happy enough to give Lambert a shot until just before xmas last year . After that , it was a painful descent to the eventual replacement.
OK, Prox, if you think that things like a 0-8 record defeat and 0-15 goals stats in 3 matches and giving up in a cup semi were the sort of thing that were not a “slow death”.
Though *occasionally* a spark fired in Lambert’s reign, it was nearly all dire.
Having said that, as a temporary manager while Lerner was selling the club, he would have fulfilled the requirement “to keep the club in the Prem”, but the owner has twiddled and twaddle for too long.
To back what you were saying, perhaps Lambert just couldn’t keep the Lerner pretence going any longer.
The cynical in me says another job for the boys , a malleable inexperienced puppet for Fox and his cronies . I’m beginning to like Sherwood more by the minute! How do these guys get plumb premiership league jobs !
Jen- I don’t think the prem manager means a thing, the ones that keep teams up are gone already.
this group of players are not from the prem either, I want someone with a solid philosophy and he has that. Also a prem winner with arse close confident with Wenger and trusted by him.
As a player never all that but the mans got a brain and prem experiance, we appointed Tim for less. whomever comes in is not going to have it easy but Garde gives me more confidence than Tims pedigree if chosen, he re-ignited Lyons club in 2 seasons and they were in a bad way also using Gomis and I know you like him 😉
Jenny,
That’s exactly the point (about Tim).
People go on and on about how things are under a certain regime (e.g. Doug as well as Tim), but when the change takes place it seems that people get even more horrified.
That’s why I said that Tim needed to be given some more time … despite his ineffectual media performances and tactical errors (not all).
Mark: “Also a prem winner with arse ”
I’m going to blow a gasket if you’re not careful!! 😉
He played 30 games for Arse over 3 years. And you rate his experience so highly?
I’m in total agreement with Jenny about this guy. BUT … he might succeed despite all that’s rigged against him – you can never tell about the ‘luck’ game.
‘OK, Prox, if you think that things like a 0-8 record defeat and 0-15 goals stats in 3 matches and giving up in a cup semi were the sort of thing that were not a “slow death”.
John , sometimes you make some really well thought out arguments and it’s virtually impossible to argue with your logic . Its really amazing how you manage never to come across as bitter or disingenous.
Thanks for your partial endorsement of my point , I feel so validated now.
Prox … 🙂
You know summat … given the right situation Lambert may have been exactly the right guy … who can tell.
I think the real culprit (now) is Lerner & his inner team … All these managers (over 5 years) can’t all have been so bad.
JL: he seems to know how to use that brain when it comes to football? Look I don’t know the bloke from Adam and neither do you, you didn’t want us to kick Tim but bashing the French bloke that’s OK and he’s not manager yet 😉
I am trying to look at his good points and there seem many, worked under houllier too.
“I think the real culprit (now) is Lerner & his inner team … All these managers (over 5 years) can’t all have been so bad.”
Yeah ….I’ll give you that . (no sarcasm)
Mark,
His “good points” seem to be not very strong as far as I can see, despite you being his agent! 😉
But you will note a caveat I wrote … that maybe Lady Luck might carry him through. He might turn out to have a charisma that we don’t know about.
But on paper? I’d have Tim any day if there were to be a choice. Neither show up too well on a c.v.
JL- He had a recurring knee problem he was still part of a doubles winning team, nice to see your open minded on this 😉
Former Arsenal defender Adrian Clarke recalled Garde’s influence before leaving the club in 1997. “It was almost as if he was there to teach the rest of us what Wenger wanted in terms of his passing, movement and attitude,” Clarke told the Independent in 2011. “At a time when the old guard were sceptical about Wenger and his methods he was almost a link between them and the new gaffer.”
“I do recall Wenger chatting to him one-on-one several times after training as we all wandered in,” says Clarke. “He was 30 at the time, but he seemed much older. I think most of us saw him as a virtual player-coach, even though he wasn’t part of the coaching team.”
Remi Garde – seriously – if Villa make him the next manager the lunatics really are running the asylum.
Took my daughter to see Spurs play the MLS All-Star team here over the summer. Got to see Kaka score, Villa, and Harry Kane had a belter. Talked to an older Spurs fan now living in Denver before the game, he was ecstatic to see Spurs. Looked at my Villa top, said, “Sherwood will either be gone by Christmas or get you relegated.” I asked why. “Because he doesn’t know what he’s doing.”
I really didn’t think he’d turn out to be so prescient.
I sometimes watch shows like , the apprentice , i’m a celebrity, big brother and aston villa football club to boost my confidence and prove that bullshit works far more than any of us had dared imagine!
JC- love it mate, Tims tactics appear to have been for making his breath fresh
John – I thought Sherwood too inexperienced to take the job and the same for Garde. I am being consistent – at least. Our need for an experienced manager with gravitas is because of the inexperience of Fox and co and the mess we are in . Looking at Southampton – how reassuring would it be to have someone of Koeman’s pedigree – managing since 1997 / club and international .
Mark – have to admit the Gomis link nearly swayed me – the only compensation in his appointment if he could get Baffy playing for us 🙂 But on current info id say this could be a disaster for us and him. Too much to change – a team disjointed and devoid of confidence – and 29 games to do it .
Prox – so true
It looks like villa are staying on the development journey if they appoint Remi which hints at Lerner staying does it not?
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/lyon-success-source-pride-gonalons#:S6-0mKQwx8+fYA
I’m ignoring the garde rumour and hope it goes away !
Any one fancy giving guus hiddink a shot at the job ?
Makes me smile thinking of how the vp regime are thinking of picking the new manager. Spin the bottle, tail on the donkey?
Surly dumb luck says they might get a decent manager this time?
All i know is they would be mental to take the job whoever they are.
Rip villa
Jenny-
On the flip side, I’m not really sure what there is to change…not like we really had anything in place. As for confidence, if someone can just see the best permutation and put it out there, at least the players will know where they stand and what’s expected of them.
Naturally, I’d love someone with gravitas, as you say. But, if he knows his football, and is schooled in the Wenger way, someone like Garde may surprise. Seems like instantly he’d know more about football than anyone else at the club (bar Cowans, etc.).
On a general note, while I think a certain “experienced” profile is always the most comforting, it isn’t necessarily a guarantee of anything. The older a manager, yes, the more they’ve seen, but usually they’ve got their ways.
With Tim, I think he understands football…I think he was simply overwhelmed at having to assemble all the car parts, rather than walk into a more established set-up and make a tweak or two here or there. For all the bluster, he seemed to lack the courage of his convictions, and seemed to think that playing around each week was a better fact-finding methodology than simply saying, “Well, you’re supposed to be able to do this, so let’s have you do this.”
I know I’m sounding like a broken record, but he’d likely still be in the job if he’d just picked a side, given it 6-7 games, then started changing what wasn’t working.
But what seemed like bold, assured diagnostic capabilities (when he talked about all the losers, etc.), turned out to really be a tendency to blame others. The way he handled Villa down the stretch last season, and the way things were going downhill fast this season…What he lacked, ultimately, was what we thought he had in spades: cavalier confidence.
JC- my thoughts exactly , know the players and footballs football if you know what you are at.
For those thinking his record doesn’t compare with Tim read this. 3 seasons with Lyon, won cup and charity shield and made league cup final. 3 seasons experience in Europe, brought through youngsters after Lyon lost their top players, sound familiar 😉
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/who-remi-garde-5-things-8391438
John – I should have said build not change as for three seasons we have been ” out with the old in with the new. ”
“Experience “doesn’t mean old necessarily . Billic and Koeman are impressive managers with gravitas not because of their age but their records – 30 years managerial experience . Age is no guarantee of wisdom I agree – look at Neil Warnock – I’m surpass he’s not in contention horror of horrors .
Garde comes in to a massive club which has been underperforming for five years . It is going to need more than getting the team selections right each week – this Apple has been rotting for a long time and I think it takes someone who knows every aspect of management not another rookie. Too similar to Sherwood – Imo – who had his excellent youth coaching record – his % win rate at Spurs and his bright young manager gloss .
Jen- garde has run The Centre Tola Vologe, Lyons BMH. worked under houllier as coach and was Lyons technical coach all things Tim doesn’t have. Tim never even had his badges, I cannot see that being a problem with Remi if we get him.
Tim
Don’t know why we’re still trying to dissect him! 😉
I think we should just accept the fact that the board just want someone who can keep it ticking over just to avoid relegation.
If we can accept that then whatever dross comes in will be seen to be for that reason.
Forget about any long-term planning and the best interests of the club – including the fans.
The (likely) danger lies in someone being appointed who will prove not to be able to do any better than Tim. In other words, we may have to accept a bottom-3 place for the rest of the season.
In all honesty he may look at us and not fancy it, its not exactly a plum Job, if he is offered it i think its because he can see promise, he doesn’t seem like a man chasing money so if he comes would be for the right reasons not a big pay-off, he Left Lyon not got sacked.
JL- same reason we are dissecting a man that hasn’t been appointed we are fans 😉
So what’s the difference between letting Tim keep us at the bottom and someone else not getting us out? at least its a chance. Wouldn’t it be a turn up if we actually were not that bad?
I can see the logic of Appointing Garde he has a lot of experience of development of youth, Running those set ups too, (hasn’t the chap that run BMH gone too)that’s what was attractive about Tim was it not?
JL- Garde was 30 when he joined Arsenal so maybe was bought as cover
I seem to remember him being a petulant niggler of a player at Arsenal, a moderate journeyman, we seem to have an obsession with Arsenal which i don’t like, any Arsenal cast-off is taken onboard.
Don’t forget that Lyon were the dominant club in France before Garde took over, he didn’t exactly build a dynasty. Not convinced. I much prefer the technical approach of foreign footy to our bish bash rubbish but i think there are better options out there, however, i think he would nurture the French lads talents. Conspiracy theory —- Garde was lined up pre-season and the signings were on his recommendation, have you ever known Villa to act this quick ?
Could of been the get out of jail clause steamer, what were Wenger and Jose like as players 😉
If you can go on what’s written he seems to know his stuff. When he took on lyon they sold most of their stars the previous year and he is touted as the architect of there present team by promoting youth he certainly didn’t spend much money I’ve checked.
could be Fox sounded out Wenger? not beyond reason is it?
http://www.myoldmansaid.com/tim-sherwood-sacked-axe-lumbering-reign/?
Well it seems that the classless “you’ve got 2 games to save your job” was a deliberate leak – putting more pressure on the team .
But like the mistress /wife scenario when Tim was at villa park watching Lambert’s final hours / he should have been thinking – this could be me. Maybe he was – Garde take note
Benteke MOTM goal scorer . Showing the doubting scousers what a talent he is
Steamer- Lyon were the dominant team until 2008 when I suspect the money bag clubs messed things up pretty much like the prem. Lyon a bit like Liverpool without the money, they underwent downsizing and he oversaw it and maintained third place in 2 seasons 5th in last one as big money clubs muscled in.
Jen- Tim did a good job of giving the club ammo to fire him unfortunately, can’t argue with results.
Villan who lives in France says –
I do not have any opinion on Garde, but his only managers job was for Lyon. According to Jacques he was not up to the job, Lyon being a very Big Club. He given it as he was a famous ex player even though he no experienced in managing and it showed.
Well Garde has ties and experience at Lyon at all levels. Lyon apart from being successful have always profited by developing and selling players. The attraction and link for Remi grows by the minute for me. He did steady their ship.
“Nevertheless, Lyon’s ascent has been in large part down to their ability to play the transfer market better than any other club in Europe, which was recognised by Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski in their thought-provoking book “Soccernomics”, where they dedicated an entire section to Lyon’s transfer market rules. These are essentially an extension of Aulas’ winning theme that was outlined above, owing more than a little to the “Moneyball” theories of Billy Beane, the legendary general manager of the Oakland Athletics baseball team.”
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/trade-secrets-behind-lyons-rise.html
Steamer- over 50% win rate over 3 seasons must be rubbish. now were have we seen that before?
I’m not doubting your mate but he wasn’t sacked, other clubs like PSG just out bought Lyon by the look of it.
Jenny: “when Tim was at villa park watching Lambert’s final hours / he should have been thinking – this could be me. Maybe he was” … Yes, he actually mentioned that the other day, when asked!
Mark: I’ll give you great credit for looking into this possible manager in great depth. Whether it’s of any use given the board’s view on things I doubt – but never mind. On Tim … the more I think about it the more I see his appointment as a set up job. Whatever faults he may have are not worth the dissection. It actually does not make interesting reading. To me at least – others may disagree.
Mark: “Lyon were the dominant team until 2008”
Considering that the French League is, I understand, more like our Championship, I’m not sure this kind of data is really worth very much.
It’s the Villa board that need dissecting and got rid of … if we keep pussyfooting about managers when it’s not them that’s the real problem, then we as supporters are not really doing the best for Villa – as I see it.
Just as with our government, a massive protest is quite on the cards. Perhaps we should encourage that?
JL have a look at the swissramble post above and you will see the incredible array of talent they bought, developed, and sold, then tell me its champs standard, let alone their consistent performances in the champs league.
“The cynical in me says another job for the boys , a malleable inexperienced puppet for Fox and his cronies . I’m beginning to like Sherwood more by the minute! How do these guys get plumb premiership league jobs”!
Jenny,
You are dead right.
Villa also seem to have an obsession with Scottish or French managers.
What good has this done us in the past?
I know the bloke is not everybody’s cup of tea (neither was Sir Alex Ferguson) but at least Nigel Pearson has Premiership experience and he performed an absolute miracle at Leicester to keep them in the Premiership.
He was arguably Manager of the Season.
Failing that, try Sean Dyche.
Despite all Sherwood’s shortcomings, nothing will change at Villa until the incompetents further up the tree are removed.
Just my two penn’orth!
Have a nice day.
Mark: “have a look at the swissramble post above and you will see the incredible array of talent they bought, developed, and sold, then tell me its champs standard, let alone their consistent performances in the champs league.”
That may well be, but what I’m talking about is what it takes to play in *our* leagues – not someone elses!
How many times have people (players in particular) have said that the game here is so much faster and demands a capability that other leagues don’t have?
I’m *certainly* not saying you’re wrong on the technical score, but our game is not so much about that. If an incoming manager is coming from abroad then he needs to get to grips with that aspect. I wonder whether Van Gaal’s start at Man U (with all his great quals) had run into that issue.
JL- He came here played and worked under Wenger the man who introduced a true passing game.
his own style is described as counter-attack with the ability to sustain pressure too.The guy at Watford has never managed in prem and Watford are newly promoted doesn’t seem to matter that much if you are good.
This guy has been in the arsenal and Lyon systems, both know a lot about buying talent and this man had a big part in nurturing them. It may be only championship but to be given the task he must be well thought of and crucially he didn’t fail and won things to boot.
Read the swissramble link I posted it includes this which might just say why we are after him maybe
Lyon’s “magnificent seven” tips and tricks for the transfer market are as follows:
1. Exploit the inefficiencies of the transfer market. This means adopting an unsentimental approach whereby you sell any player if a club offers more than he is worth. As Aulas said, “Every international at Lyon is untransferable – until the offer surpasses by far the amount we had expected.”
2. Transfers should be decided by people who are at the club for the long-term. This means that Lyon’s transfers are decided by a group consisting of Aulas, the technical director, Bernard Lacombe, and whoever happens to be the current coach. As Emmanuel Hembert, head of the London sports practice of management consultants AT Kearney, explained, “A big secret of a successful club is stability. In Lyon, the stability is not with the coach, but with the sports director, Lacombe.” Lyon understand that the coach is only a “temp” better than most, as their seven consecutive titles were gained with four different coaches (Jacques Santini, Paul Le Guen, Gérard Houllier and Alain Perrin), while Lacombe has been at the club for over 20 years.
3. The best time to buy a player is when he is in his early twenties. Aulas explained, “We buy young players with potential who are considered the best in their country, between 20 and 22 years old. “ The theory is that the players are old enough to be nearly fully formed, but too young to be expensive stars. The other added benefit is that relative unknowns accept modest salaries.
“Bernard Lacombe – Lyon legend”
4. Try not to buy centre forwards. This is the most over-priced position in the transfer market in marked contrast to goalkeepers, who deliver most “bang for your buck”. In this way, the homegrown Benzema was given his opportunity and thrived on the responsibility, before making bundles for the club.
5. Replace your best players before you sell them. This avoids a panic purchase or a lengthy transitional period. This policy meant that Aulas could happily let Essien to go to Chelsea when they turned up with a wheelbarrow full of cash.
6. Buy Brazilians. Lyon have been very adept at securing footballers from Brazil, with former players including future internationals Edmilson, Juninho and Fred, while the current squad boasts Cris and Michel Bastos. The trick here was to send one of their past captains, Marcelo, to Brazil to act as an exclusive agent.
7. Help your foreign signings settle in. It is difficult to move to another country, but Lyon employ people to help their players relocate, find somewhere to live, learn French, open bank accounts and generally cope with homesickness. This sounds obvious, but many clubs did not provide such services a short while back.
Mark – I still say it’s a different type of game. I will be surprised if Watford’s boss can maintain his club’s form.
And whether this guy is “well thought of” doesn’t mean a lot. A reputation can be sunk quite easily … especially at Villa Park.
Anyway, the *real* issue is about the Villa board. …
JL- I understand what you are saying but the overall package this bloke has must be a massive magnet to the Villa board. If he did save us imagine them rubbing their hands at first hand knowledge of how the money-ball approach works and his contacts would be handy to such an endeavour. He might even end up running the show and not manager in the long run.
Given that they have had a terrible hit rate picking managers with prem experience and the likelihood of said managers not liking the look of us in our present position is very high, plus they may not appreciate working under constraints.
You’ve said there is no plan I don’t think that’s true, they have a plan but are learning on the job, this manager would fill out that knowledge.
JL- if you are not well thought of you won’t get a job, see lambert, mcleish. You don’t get one of the best managerial spots in France by being average.
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/25/guillem-balague-says-theres-no-chance-aston-villa-will-appoint-d/?
‘We will accept any Arsenal cast off’ and once again Steamer is spot on.
AVFC is now a wholly-owned and minor subsidiary of Arsenal FC and our name is shortly to be changed to Aston Arsenal, a direct successor of the lesser-known and unlamented Woolwich Arsenal.
It’s not Remi Garde we need. It’s a large Remy Martin!!
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/25/tim-sherwood-successor-aston-villa?
My lady’s brother heard Moyes and G Neville were at villa park yesterday, I have seen nothing to confirm that though
im with you steamer the german and riley have to go as well would also like poxy fox bootet out as he is cluleless as for this french guy we have anough french players for to sort out might rvrn get nzog to plat you never now
Frankfurt- how would he a be an Arsenal cast-off?
JD- so if Remi comes in and keeps us up with games to spare what then? does that mean the players they got in are ok and will get better?
thanks trev
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/25/angry-trevor-sinclair-reacts-on-twitter-to-sherwood-sacking-hope/?
With all due respects to tim , thank goodness that’s over- no were near bringing enough to the table
On Remi not sure as don’t know enough about him , but if he can bring a footballling phylosophy to the club it can only be positive imo
the question is what is he all about ?
The link to Remi Garde is so freaking random its unreal. Fox is a commercial guy – he knows nothing about football.
Our football club is in desperate trouble. This appointment is critical to our future.
The club needs a manager with pedigree and experience. A manager who can take control and gain the respect of the team immediately.
We need either Moyes – Rodgers or Laudrop. Two of those are currently looking for a job.
my pool mates will be peeing thenselves with laughter if we get brenda – he doesnt know his own mind and is just another square pegs round holes chop n change kinda guy —- pleeeeease no
I’d never heard of Remi Garde so thought I’d ask a French friend. His response:
For Villa ? Really ? He has been one of the great coachs of Lyon, doing a good job with few means (€ and stars), giving their chance to young players from the training center… really, for me he is a good choice
Robbo- that kiled it 🙂
Post-mortem is now up for the masochists (ie Villa supporters) among us.
lokk lets be honest we are sh ite sh ite ceo shi te owner shi te german buying players who in recpect would come here ask yourselves if the french guy knows the players get himas it looks a dun deal 1 to 5 and bettind suppended so thats it i am afraid but we wont get any body else as fred karmos army or circus are better run you have to face facts er are a laughing stock